WTF IS INDIE SLEAZE?

[@BrendaGarcia-ty2ml]

You got the timeline right! True indie sleaze was before 2011 to me. I feel like it died with Crystal Castle’s III album. I say this bc a lot of younger gen z confuse it with post 2013 artic monkeys stuff.

[@alexsanchez2077]

Ehhhh

[@noisepollution6761]

It's watching you 😛

[@10199ULTRAMATIC]

Arctic Monkeys stopped being good after 09

[@blazingstar9638]

Good call

[@blazingstar9638]

@@10199ULTRAMATICaccurate

[@kateb2643]

So weird hearing my early 20's as a history lesson

[@OKANjarrod]

At least we got to enjoy it! I would not want to be 25 rn 😌

[@Daydreamerr13]

@@OKANjarrodme ,26, rn, and suffering 😂 i am jealous of you millnieals !!

[@OKANjarrod]

@@Daydreamerr13 I'm a Xennial lol but I'm sorry for your pain 🙏🏾 If we stick together we can hopefully override the boomers that secretly hate us 🤭

[@KayButtonJay]

Same, lol

[@SKLTOR-of6zs]

old

[@phalaxy]

Gen z are running through aesthetics wayyyyy to quick , damn give it like 20 years please, yal gonna be wearing gucci and yeezy in 2 years again at this point

[@phalaxy]

Good video none the less

[@ongodddd]

Its a lost gen man

[@jameskemp8287]

@@ongodddd I like this title - lost gen - it pretty much defines what happens to a generation that tries to find their personality through social media views, which though tragic is something new-ish and fresh and will be looked back upon as the lost generation trying to "nail" an aesthetic that exist purely in the digital world because they're not out there living those party scenes, art shows, garage band shows. Instead of saying - what am I gonna wear to see this band tonight - then having your pic snapped by your friends for fun naturally and candidly- they're just putting on the clothes snapping 20 photos of the same pose to get it right - the end. But at least their making money off it (some of them at least)

[@ongodddd]

@@jameskemp8287 yea it may be kinda sad to see for some that this is what its come to but its perfectly normal and real to them so who am i to judge? Its all subjective, theyre just doing what theyre meant to be doing just like every gen before them so i cant knock them for it

[@Daydreamerr13]

Its because of Tiktok

[@rupertthemofu]

Hey from someone who was 18 in 2008, I think you're kind of missing the vibe of this era. Rebranding this "trend" as indie sleaze in retrospect makes sense bc everyone looks kind of unwashed and "sleazy" in those party photos, especially if you look at some of the icons of the era (Kate Moss and Pete Doherty's many photos come to mind). But two big influences on our mindset at the time (in the US at least) were 1) after Obama was elected there was a real feeling of like elation, like we'd come out of the Bush era and maybe everything was going to get better, even though we were going through a recession. For a lot of people I knew, we were too young to be working yet, so we didn't personally have a good sense of the recession. So we weren't like nihilistic in the face of some economic peril. I think we were just kind of like weirdly feeling like maybe everything wouldn't be so bad. Like a bit naive I guess. 2) A huuuuuge factor in the culture of the time that you can't discredit is that although we had blackberrys or whatever, and digital cameras, and facebook, social media barely existed. So when we went out to party, we got ready to go out but we didn't think as much about our look or about taking photos or anything. I and most of my friends look wasted in 90% of the photos we took in that era bc we never thought about who would see them other than our other friends. It was a lot easier to turn up and be present and dumb and just party without distractions or reminders or knowing that you looked terrible and your mascara was all over your face lol

[@greenchair_]

I was 24 in 2008 and pretty much agree with your take. For one, I would have never considered the digital photos of the time to be "lo-fi". I hated them then because they looked overly crisp and harsh. Before that we bought disposable cameras and had the film developed somewhere. I still like the look of those pre-digital photos, but even then I probably would say polaroids are closer to what I'd consider lo-fi. Even so, I still find this video an interesting take, I just think it's being looked at in the context of the here and now rather than the context of history itself.

[@seanwieland9763]

@@greenchair_it was Terry Richardson and Dov Charney who championed that high contrast Polaroid style, back when Vice Magazine was being written almost entirely by Gavin McInnes. Indie Sleaze is in large part a creation of Gavin McInnes and his take on punk rock cool.

[@Rsonny]

​@@seanwieland9763 Man, what a fascinating fellow this Gavin is.

[@seanwieland9763]

@@Rsonny he’s a normal dude. It’s the Leftist Ratchet and Cultural Marxism that burst onto the scene in the 2014 Great Awokening / New Sincerity trend who are the basketcases.

[@seanwieland9763]

@@Rsonny all Gavin really did is copy Jim Goad’s Answer Me magazine when he created Vice.

[@Quantumwashere]

I was 18 in 2008 so seeing my teenage years re-branded is kinda cute. I will say the access to affordable clothes and drugs was just better back then point blank. The media also played a major part, I feel like this video left out films like Juno, Garden State, Superbad and Project X that were very impactful on some of the aesthetics of that time.

[@Beedji]

"re-branded" is the perfect word.

[@catbread2585]

I think more than Project X, Skins were the ones influencing the aesthetics big time, people were organizing “secret” parties just trying to live that Skins moment

[@Tealaful]

It was a lifestyle back then. Now it's another aesthetic and art expression. Totally different worlds. 😢

[@KinMoto]

juno is so amazing

[@MarkellMoore-ty2vj]

Indie sleaze is just hipsters after a drug induced party

[@Li_Tobler]

As someone who remembers that time vividly- yeah pretty much lmao

[@product_of_august]

This is accurate

[@aleisterlilywhite1109]

And it was fun

[@AffectionateBrain-yf4sq]

Bingo

[@squash6497]

Hangover-chic.

[@meadowcorolla]

what's funny to me is that all of the artists mentioned, back then fell into a whole different genre and sub culture which makes sense, indie sleaze being a new term for that entire era. for example, when i was in middle school and high school, i was very into crystal castles, clams casino, purity ring, crim3s, sidewalks and skeletons, salem, etc., back then all of that was witch house. i can't think of more artists, most i listed are mentioned in this video and i can't think of more offf top of my head. it would be cool to see your take on what witch house is or was. it's really interesting seeing gen z taking interest in past trends and giving it a new name and life to it, as a millenial it makes me automatically perceive that time as more interesting and fun that how it actually felt to live it

[@willrobin5271]

No you right most of the artists you mentioned are witchhouse. I’d say “indie sleaze” is less a genre and more a style

[@meadowcorolla]

​@@willrobin5271 true yeah i see it that way as well :) and i do think all artists mentioned make sense in regards to what encapsulates the whole idea of what indie sleaze is. just was easy to make an example out of witch house

[@tinydancer19971]

Ty for bringing up witch house as a genre!! Wicca Phase Springs Eternal’s first album ‘Abercrombie and Me’ is very witch house as well and it needs more recognition lol

[@codeninja100]

Yeah because Witch House was a very different look and id say its more similar to the Opium trend of today where as indie sleaze feels more like shoegaze and straight up what indie just was at that time. Anyone remember Balam ACAB?

[@bbbbbbbbbb0]

I’d even add clams casino was more cloud rap, as he produced beats for lil b and asap rocky

[@sherrodwright999]

I think the photography of Terry Richardson played a role as well

[@edwardduarte7393]

I remember being in NY and silver lake and indie sleaze was everywhere... So indie sleaze.

[@stephaniescott424]

I'm surprised he wasn't mentioned. He was like a god to photography students haha.

[@glamour4better]

cobrasnake !!!!

[@murrayisarobot]

That'll be the "sleaze" part

[@seanwieland9763]

Bingo! Terry Richardson and Dov Charney.

[@grimecrimetime]

Great breakdown and journalism sir! I will be 40 soon, and I lived through that era. Was even a casualty of it as I spent several years in addiction(sober since 2016). Fashion and art saved my life, but that time was a crazy fun time too. No regrets

[@momophoto]

Anything that gets away from quiet luxury is a win imo

[@ab8817]

this whole era of music was documented on the internet in real time and zoomers still cant get it right.

[@Daydreamerr13]

LMAO😂

[@510SPINESPLITTA]

I see it as them putting their own spin on it. Of course it will be different from when we did it.

[@FiveStarGuy120]

I disagree with one of your points concerning the new indie sleaze revival in terms of music. Although you are right about groups like snow strippers and the hellp, I think that new underground rapers like xaviersobased, nettspend, phreshboyswag, clip, bleeod/defficile all encompass that indie sleaze energy that we once saw in the 00s and early 2010s. Even some modern alt rock bands/ artist like trxy!, novulent, and quannnic somewhat fit into this group aswell.

[@Ziggydtardust]

Drop your spotify

[@kellei9h]

^

[@jadesded]

@@Ziggydtardust these artists are public knowledge at this point, I'd just dig around in zoomergaze, jerk, ambient rap (think marlon dubois), opium bird beats, new vs. old pluggnb, detroit spice talking etc. tags/playlists/promo. channels until you find heat.

[@codeninja100]

This and the shoe gaze era was my childhood. It was such a vibe. The style felt more down to earth and attainable if that makes sense compared to the gen Z styles of today. I don't know. Back then it felt like we were just expressing ourselves with what we had. Thrifting and finding anything remotely interesting or ironic was the only outlet we had to be different from the last generation.

[@seanwieland9763]

Reality TV and influencer culture being obsessed with luxury has been a disaster for the human race. Indie Sleaze was borrowing wholesale from Chuck Palahniuk and David Fincher’s Fight Club aesthetic.

[@basket.8case]

i like shoegaze more than indie sleaze music

[@ngoozi]

Hey bro as a 31 yr old let me tell you im thankful Indie 8s coming back into the mainstream. I grew up in the original era. Strokes, Yeah Yeah Yeah, Phoenix, Interpol Bloc Party, Tv on the Radio and LCD Soundsystem were part of this NYC movement that went global. Thomas mars of Phoenix grew up with Hedi Slimane and did music for his DIOR show. By the time Arctic Monkeys and the Kooks came around it blew up. Midwest emo was also developing alongside this. American Apparel was important here because it was about the look as supposed to the brands and this movement was popular amongst upoer middle class kids who saw themselves as too intellectual to make their personality about brands as supposed to culture. It came to a head with the british show Skins and indie movies.

[@jadesded]

Don't exclude Detroit, the early DEMF (Back when it was getting shutdown constantly, but is now the ever-pricey Movement fest), Garage-rock-revival and electroclash coming out of that city inspired a majority of aesthetics as well.

[@phalaxy]

I was in school in ireland around this time and most of us were very inspired by the t.v skins, the styling they had was very of this era, topman hoodys, skinny jeans, white canvas shoes or chunky nikes, leather jackets ,diamond earrings all kinda melted together lol

[@eyespy3001]

Watching kids discover trends in real time is truly brain cell-killing. Edit: Just to provide some _much_ needed information to this topic- This original “Indie sleaze” trend (which it was NEVER called) came about through many, many circumstances that were either missed or glossed over in this video. First, this look and sound was a reaction to the Minimal Techno genre of music that came out of Germany in the late 90’s and early 2000’s. It was also a reaction to the Y2K Bug, which was the computer glitch that was supposed to wipe out humanity at the stroke of midnight on January 1st in the year 2000. When nothing happened at the turn of the millennium, and “the future” wasn’t suddenly flying cars and world peace, people reverted back to being hedonistic dirtbags with a tinge of nihilism. Then the Bush administration and 9/11 happened, and from that *‘Merica* was spawned. The culture reverted to this trailer park, down-home ‘merican aesthetic. In New York, especially Williamsburg, Brooklyn, the Electroclash scene sprang up, turning an eye back to the 80’s and synth-heavy music. Electroclash mashed up gay culture, hedonism, sexual liberty, 80’s fashion, and partying. It was the first truly post-modern scene, and it set the tone for the rest of the decade, influencing everything from dance music to emo. Vice magazine, MySpace, and The Hipster are also major contributing factors to this cultural movement.

[@max.a.trillion3217]

Glad you mentioned the whole hipster phenomenal. I lived through this time period, often being called a hipster myself when in reality I was just a weird alternative guy not wanting to participate in the mainstream at the time which was Abercrombie, Roca wear, Lil Jon, Tall T's.

[@Li_Tobler]

Wow, this was so enlightening! Thank you for this comment, now I understand one of my fondest eras much better:) Also you mentioning Williamsburg makes me want to re-watch 2 broke girls, a pretty bomb show from approximately the same time period iirc. Just lovely:)💕

[@jameskemp8287]

@@max.a.trillion3217 This exactly. We called ourselves alternative or indie and outsiders called us hipsters. We never called it indie sleaze during that time and it was the same counter culture movement and art that has always been underground like in the 60s the beatnik era and the 70s the counter culture flower power and so forth full of artists that have the same ideologies toward the world and don't participate in the sorority frat house people (even after they graduate they still have that mentality) and we just stayed away from that and lived in our own indie world... UNTIL it goes mainstream and the fashion gets picked up by Urban outfitters and suddenly celebrities that aren't in bands are wearing it and it gets overhyped and eventually dropped just like how it happened to grunge at the end of the 90s. Which brings me to the key thing about this current indie sleaze revival - IT'S not based on the actual culture - it's based on the same group that would have been sorority/frat people that are influencers suddenly appropriating the fashion of that time and posting it for views- but they do not participate in the culture or music or even ideology. You won't find them at an actual garage rock show at a dive bar - you will only find them posing in their poser outfits and that's it. It's basically "POSER INDIE SLEAZE"

[@verynicemice]

@@jameskemp8287yeah it seems like all the revivals (and bands mentioned in this video) are based off the mainstream versions

[@jameskemp8287]

@@verynicemice exactly this. If you wanna check out some new bands that have it right in garage rock/grunge/alt check out Hot Wax and The Last Dinner Party. I'm still searching for male fronted bands that get it right but all I come across these days are rock guitars with the singer singing like Ed Sheeran which I'm not knocking but is not punk/raw etc

[@DropArum]

I feel like i never grew out of the 2010 vibe, just got educaded and wasted to again grow back into it. Not only music but also lifestye and art was suddenly open for discovery on the web. I remember feeling like the coolest person for discovering new influences. I loved the foals antidote album and the show skins was a huge deal to me and my friends.

[@tneowapl1-bv6gr]

New ? How were ripping off 80's 90's Generation, and their Parent's Culture's Styles N E W ? N E W ?

[@DropArum]

​@@tneowapl1-bv6gr what i meant to say is discovering influences that were new to me and my social circles

[@cloud-jo7od]

Having been a spectator for this scene on online fashion blogs at the time (I was in middle school/early HS) I’m really curious about the term “indie sleaze.” Is this just a post-facto name for the tail end of the hipster era? As far as I remember, we used to just call members of the scene “hipsters” (a term which has heavily fallen out of fashion).

[@seanwieland9763]

Yes, it’s a term that’s been invented in retrospect after the 2014 Great Awokening - an era that the woke SJWs and New Sincerity movement desperately wanted to keep in the memoryhole. At the time it was Trash / Electroclash beginning with Erol Alkan’s residency, and then grew into Bloghouse because of HypeMachine creating a search engine for music blogs to find new MP3s.

[@AGNESEGG]

We were just hipsters but you couldn’t call us that. Indie sleaze is such a funny name though

[@emptysoul8462]

I do think that indie sleaze is becoming popular again for kinda the same reason it was popular around the recession as well. Gen Z grew up being taught that “war is over”, all that stuff that happened in the past couldn’t never happen again, we live “in a time of peace and wealth”. Ever since 2020 everything has just become so stressful for the youth. The pandemic, war in Ukraine and now the genocide in Palestine, global warming is still an issue, human exploitation is rampant in places like China, Congo, Ethiopia, misogyny came back in some places thanks to the identity crisis of men, religious extremism feels rampant everywhere, anti-abortion and anti-trans laws being passed in several countries, protests happening more and more often. We, the youth feel doomed. The world isn’t this beautiful place full of endless possibilities it once was. It’s full of trash, suffering thanks to late capitalism, hatred towards everyone, a sense of “how many years do we have left?”. It used to snow in my country, heavily. I used to build igloos with my brother in our back yard. We haven’t had a single centimetre of snow in the last 3 years at least. I can’t enjoy a sunny day in February without feeling guilty. And no matter what I do nothing will change anything. We are powerless and angry and sad.

[@AnnaLe-d4b]

In Australia we had the same scene but it was "indie hipster" or "alternative" and we focused more on music; seeing bands at gigs, art shows/exhibitions and yes, party culture was there too with our thrifted op shop outfits. Bands that many of us listened to was Warpaint, The Drums, The Hives, Twin Shadow, Toro Y Moi, Vampire Weekend, Yeasayer, The Kooks, The Wombats, Two Door Cinema Club, Beach House, Bloc Party, Morning Benders (before they became Pop etc) Old school Kings of Leon and of course aussies bands Last Dinosaur, San Cisco, Yves Klein Blue, Cut Copy, Red Riders, The Jezabels, Little Red, Midnight Juggernauts, Bag Raiders etc. I could go on and on but I spent most of my 20's in the indie scene and we all loved music so much, everyone was listening to triple j and going to savers or vinnies to shop for clothes. Also everyone loved polaroid's but of course not everyone could afford to have one.

[@Q2tall]

I appreciate the lil brush up you did about the internet in y2k basically the beginning of the paradigm shift of tech

[@Chan-zn7wb]

It's just the grunge aesthetic with hipster vibes from the mid-late 2000s.

[@kkatpheiz]

Bro.

[@Chan-zn7wb]

@@kkatpheiz >implying I'm not right.

[@sinuheguzman9404]

Hedi slimane played a huge part, he has lots of musician friends and he used to dress them. Even when we didn't had the money we were all emulating the look with trifted 70s and 80s fashion. He sold the look to the 1% percenters and media and he influenced both men and women's fashion because his clothes have always been worn by both. He also featured new bands at his shows soundtracks, so he really disseminated it in the wide public mindset.

[@Alchemizingg]

Saying there was no depth in indie sleaze isnt correct. We were coming of age without any ability to come of age. It was a reaction to pensions, the white picket fence and the future we were told we would have being pulled from us. When they bailed out the banks, they sold us. What do you do when your lifetime of hope has been stripped from you? We were coping as "adults" who would never have the opportunity to grow into that concept.

[@seanwieland9763]

Transgressive fiction of Trainspotting, Fight Club, and American Psycho played huge roles subconsciously.

[@Haileyy52682]

The Cobrasnake has a great photography book on this called y2k archive. Really cool book also if ur a Jeremy Scott fan.

[@OKANjarrod]

MissShapes and Cobrasnake were iconic

[@seanwieland9763]

Last Night’s Party and Cobrasnake

[@bryanlee8475]

"dazed and confused" magazine featured a big part of that Era too

[@Luhbrudda]

As did ID

[@markmeyer7352]

surprised that Vice Magazine wasnt mentioned either

[@8_bruh_8]

Vice was it.

[@libertard6101]

The strokes and the Libertines. 2000-4 . !!!! Nice lil doc 👍🏽

[@KayButtonJay]

I’m glad you mentioned the blog era. It was phenomenal way to find cool new music. I miss it a lot. Especially The Hype Machine

[@Death_Rave]

Im just happy to see new modern gen ppl still loving justice ❤

[@mcfly4959]

19 and Justice is my favorite band ✝️✝️

[@HelloworlditsSamuel]

They changed the sound too much now, that could be why maybe

[@spaghettilover2156]

such a nice approach to video to talk about the past of this trend, the meaning or lack of it behind it, mentioning photographers, designers, filmmakers and writers. didn’t expect much on this theme, but you did a great job!

[@user-rs2lq6eo7j]

Hate to do the Umm Actually, but Juergen Teller actually shot most of his famous work on a Contax G2 35mm film camera. Gunner Stahl shoots on one too and his style had a huge moment like 4yrs ago. It’s just something about that camera I guess.

[@MeloraBeecroft]

It really started in the late 90s. I saw The Yeahs Yeahs Yeahs and Girls Against Boys NYE 1999. Indie Sleaze ground zero. My boyfriend was the godfather of Math Rock.

[@Luhbrudda]

I’m only 28 and I’ve already seen my child hood and teen years come back into style. It’s interesting. Revitalizing trends in such quick succession must be unique to Gen Z right? I mean the fact that kids are referencing the early 2010’s already is wild. I knew this would happen eventually but not so soon. I wonder if we’re jaded and less creative/original as a society these days.

[@Daydreamerr13]

I’m 26, and it is actually fascinating. I was a kid during the indie sleaze era. But, I definitely remember it. Tiktok changed everything, and not really in a good way😅

[@Humanophage]

It's all just variations of the indie rock aesthetic.

[@pepep.823]

You forgot how people became famous out of the blue such as Cory Kennedy

[@Tealaful]

I think indie sleaze was more of a lifestyle tbh. Its completely different than it is now which seems to be another artistic expression and aesthetic. Im so glad im a millennial, we had pretty awesome phases. ❤

[@tneowapl1-bv6gr]

It was Culture Vulturism It ripped off Other Generations Cultures and Upbringing

[@_acey]

been kinda getting into these kind of stuffs recently didnt kno it was an actual scene

[@Scott-fj7nq]

it really wasn't ... karsty is conflating alooooot of artists that even at the time were given labels (post-punk revival, blog pop, witchhouse) that grouped them with artists with which they had no shared influences or locations.

[@catbread2585]

@@Scott-fj7nqwhile it’s true, maybe it’s the sharing era of those artists, but they were collective put inside the term “indie” as independent artists or non pop music, which then the different genres were pointed out as subgenres, the stream site purevolume was a big factor for independent artists, but most artists had this genre label in their profile, so you would see bands under the “tags” Indie/electronic/and something else, the aesthetics were overlapping with each other, as the tight cheap Monday pants were the common thing

[@nayi999]

i think uk post punk, dance punk, glasgow indie were hugely inspirational esp to americans. just look at skins lmao. but yeah look more into uks post punk revival and even britpop cuz the mod revival was very early OG indie sleaze. pretty much invented by the libertines the grungy style comes from the wasters strung out and constantly partying. early arctic monkeys shows a mainstream version of the scene. the kooks naive or ooh la music videos capture the vibe specifically. electroclash goes into this, adult cc, uffie, vitalic, health, dave clark etc but for the more underground, look at the music video for the skallywags - paint the old street black. i feel like this is authentic and right now we are looking back at almost a caricature of indie sleaze. the indie SLEAZE is the grungy rockstar girlfriend kate moss and pete doherty, effie from skins thats the specific aesthetic. this is being mixed with all the indie aesthetics of the time in this revival im in my mid 20s and i was running one of the more popular underground indie blogs on tumblr at the time, thats how i met my husband lmao whatever but im naturally getting back into this aesthetic ive always kept in the background.

[@cursetheholy7415]

I think one of the major influences of the revival that you didn’t touch on is Dimes Square. It appealed to the too-cool-to-care nyc roots of indie sleaze, and I’d say that Red Scare’s contrarianism and appreciation for Americana can def be felt in the revival

[@yeager1888]

Whatever Pete Doherty was rocking at that time is ace with me right now.

[@LfunkeyA]

it's a stupid scene/trend/aesthetic like anything else. the music is what matters, and artists like animal collective, mgmt and ariel pink have created amazing music. the same cannot be said for the 'revival' - even direct inspiration like crystal castles is more interesting and original.

[@ijustneedmyself]

And those who got to experience the 80s alternative and underground music scenes looked at music from the early 00s as boring and derivative. What's new? 🤷🏽‍♀️

[@dudeguy24]

Alright unc

[@woodywoodward2579]

2022 I found the Hellp and it made me brutally insane. Anyways indie sleaze revival is here and I’M here for it too.

[@catbread2585]

Justice is about to release an album, Cheap Monday is back in production, oh boy.

[@Haileyy52682]

If any ones likes music like this I would recommend the xx, Jai Paul, Ross tones, and the 1975 self titled deluxe. The 1975 first album deluxe has great ambient songs and their inspired by hedi slimane. :)

[@Haileyy52682]

Oh you did mention jai Paul I didn’t hear that

[@sebaldfan]

Genuinely appreciate this perspective, and a lot more nuanced than some of the other 'indie sleaze revival' explainers have been. That being said Vincent Gallo and DFW were very much known quantities in the OG era too, especially by the kind of tastemakers who were writing the music/culture blogs promoting this cultural identity. If anything the OG scene was a direct reaction to the naval gaze-y indie/emo early 2000's, where those ideas were definitely apart of it.

[@tneowapl1-bv6gr]

The Styles and Culture are way older None of you have anything to do with it Nor the Cultures whose Styles you imitate in Your Avatar

[@zebulunmatteson793]

No one called it indie sleaze back then. It was just called indie rock, or sometimes called electro clash. And I think the scene basically died after Hipster Runoff shut down.

[@tneowapl1-bv6gr]

Rehashers Imitators Of Other Generations and Cultures

[@voodooluck]

0:10 Cowgirl clue made it yayyy

[@fernclark7083]

I think the artistic values and imagery of rural/middle america are interesting, but i've been feeling like theres something exploitative about it. like you said, a lot of these musicians are from LA or other bigger cities. as someone from a rural place, its kinda frustrating to see the culture and issues in places like where im from being used for some sort of trendy backdrop. I don't think this is exclusive to indie sleeze either. I feel like a lot of trends especially with y2k revival stuff is walking a fine line between appreciating and mocking the poopulations that popularized the trend in the first place.

[@hellhusk]

i like how you related salem and dfw. i couldnt pinpoint why i felt a similar appeal before.

[@crxstalstar5488]

kinda forgot about the americana era of 2012-2015 from lana and taylor swift leaning into the whole james dean and lolita thing. 50s fashion was pretty big during this indie arc that happened after the whole swag era and before 2016 soundcloud era

[@seanwieland9763]

Was that a thing? It was a rough 180° going from Indie Sleaze before the 2008 GFC to the New Sincerity / Great Awokening of the 2014. That’s how Vice Magazine went from being written entirely by Gavin McInnes to becoming a woke screed cancelling Gavin McInnes.

[@leelaartwork]

Indie sleaze was so so fun. I was 17 in 2008 and it was like there was so much freedom and parties were so fun and crazy ahahahaha The music!!! So good. Everyone was living in the moment, and the only pics were really on digital cameras, and would all be uploaded to Bebo the next day, it was so fun 🤩

[@khrissyboy69]

Big “key bumps in the bathroom” era

[@seanwieland9763]

“Cocaine and champagne, having sex in limousines.” - Miss Kittin

[@paulaluzuriaga9416]

Who remembers The Hipster Runoff? 😂

[@maegantrice936]

For me it definitely starting with discovering aa ads thru vice mag and wiwt community blogs on live journal. So crazy tho bc at the time as a teenager I didn’t know it was a movement or trend I just that’s what it meant to be cool in your teens and early twenties. Not old enough to witness trend cycles first hand, I thought it was a timeless look lol. By the time 2016 makeup trends hit I was so confused why messy eyeliner wasn’t cool anymore and I thought foundation was just for older women

[@seanwieland9763]

Back when Vice Magazine was actually cool because it was written entirely by Gavin McInnes. People read it for the Dos and Donts section. Then he was ousted in 2008 and Vice became the complete opposite of everything it had stood for. Just like the 2014 Great Awokening was the complete opposite of everything Indie Sleaze stood for.

[@Chamozart]

2007 is peak indie culture

[@sheslostcontrol000]

The indie movement it was not just partying. Actually we had a deconstruction of American culture. It was a whole cultural movement, the party was just another part of it. This generation are use it as a way of trying to break with all this fast aesthetics you are used to, trying to create something that is more that an aesthetic, as the indie movement intended to be and I’m happy that this generation see value on it.

[@secretvivonne]

You going to thrift shop grab random stuff and top with leather jacket 🙌🏻 Here you go Indie sleazy

[@Annik13]

I was there when it was written, I was an obnoxious 21 year old and you nailed the timeline!

[@A_MapleBar]

I call this the "cheap nose-burning perfume/cologne" and energy drinks" era, it was consistently awkward and smelly

[@lovedeathdisco]

tbh, the two eras feel unrelated. the revival feels rather underwhelming, undefined and as tho it hardly references those sweet unparalleled coming of edbanger c.2011 bloghaus days, or the peculiar sweetspot of 2007 cold war kids, in rainbows, the shins indie vibes. the revival probably has its own charms if ya dig in, but as one who thoroughly appreciated both of those shortlived periods' musical output, they feel unrelated. possibly in time it'll mature and find its own. mobile phones were still newish then and so people were more about irl connecting, so maybe there's a shift in underlying substance on which the former and latter have been based upon.

[@tneowapl1-bv6gr]

It was already a Rip Off then

[@piercenigel4670]

love that you had to explain what a blog is ahahahh bet people don't know

[@maxthedoglover]

This dude loves his hiphop , love the 9th wonder instrumentals.

[@benjaminhooper6076]

I think there is a turning point and that’s around 2005. Something changed then, at least in England. MySpace was officially a juggernaut in music and was rapidly changing the accessibility to new music via the web, introducing literally children like myself to brand new often unsigned independent music of all kinds. From Grime and rap to electronic music like crystal castles, post punk like the horrors, arctic monkeys Sheffield roots, not to mention nu rave in its infancy, I remember seeing a lot of these groups crop up a couple of years before they even released records. They were already popular. Stylish clothes were readily available and there wasn’t a snobbery around how much they cost or where they were from because it was just a ‘look’ - they weren’t used quite as much a status symbols. The sleeze aspect was kind of around from the beginning, but certainly peaked in 2007 with moss and Doherty etc, nu rave hitting the mainstream. It must be told however that 2008 was really the death of ‘indie’ in the 2000s as we knew it in the UK. Whilst indies mainstream big bang was happening in the US with Big albums like the MGMT debut, I feel like the UK was already winding down, at least in the circles that I was part of, there was a longing for something new and by 2009 a real sense that culture snobs like myself were looking for something of their own to be attached to again, I couldn’t stand the watered down aesthetics that began to prevail in the mainstream and longed for the scruffy MySpace pages, limewire downloads and most others not being hip to the music I’d desperately tried to seek out for myself, no matter how snobby that sounds. Luckily by this point the music that had been bubbling up elsewhere in the 2000’s found its feet with UK fans, as we grew to know about the likes of Jay Retard, Ty Segall, Ariel Pink etc, which freshened things up. Much like a lot of music eras, things were faster paced here, they came, they became big here they left, at least for your really switched on music fan.

[@tneowapl1-bv6gr]

It was a Complete rip off Of Other Generation's Cultures

[@dbburkeman5592]

When was the term Indie Sleeze coined? I never heard it till about 5 or 6 years ago. Around 2000 I made a compilation for Ministry of Sound of Electro Clash hits. I know much more about music than I do about fashion, so was able to find flaws in this one, still good though! Also, do you know how fucked up the Crystal Castles guy was?? Deservedly Canceled! ;)

[@visualush4347]

you could apply a lot of these points to underground rap or drain gang, which stayed relevant steadily since the 2010's

[@MAaa-q3o]

I lived this. I was going to events like Banana Split Sundays with Steve Aoki as the resident DJ. I was a scenester and never had to wait in lines. Cinespace was the spot and I saw many artists, including MIA before she BLEW UP. I wore lots of American Apparel and one of my friends hooked up with Dove bc she was friends with one of the main AA girls and they had coke fueled orgies. My BF had a business account with them and my friends put in a big order and picked it up at the factory and Dove perved all over her. Vice magazine was definitely a major influence on the culture and fashion at the time. PBR was my go to drink. Blow was common. I went to SO MANY shows. So many. I thought I was super cool and got photographed. I dated musicians. I did a lot of crazy things. I was a party girl and I'm happy those years are behind me.

[@tneowapl1-bv6gr]

The Dilution of Other Generation's Cultures

[@emerson2677]

Great video man this is so well done!!! 👍

[@massimochiarini511]

I sold my jacket to noah dillon from the help and met him in person

[@ngoozi]

Topman was also very important to men dressing in this era as well as the rise of thrifting

[@elote12331]

Shoutout 2hollis tho

[@vanishxvx]

No mention of picture plane anywhere here

[@LiquidDemocracyNH]

this video is great. what are some specific songs that payed tribute to rural America? I just started listening to the snow strippers and the hellp and could use song suggestions

[@SFae-dd6vp]

Interesting take. I like the explanation of the revival movement, and influential artists and photographers. Well thought out. Though, in that era nobody thought of this as a movement, or named it Indie Sleaze (though indie music was def popular, the look didn't really have a set name or label and encompasses a bunch of different trends and styles that sort of flow into one another, except maybe some would call that hipster back in the day)- I think that term came up around the 2020s even? It was just what people wore at the time, especially the more alternative and artistic people. Very interesting how there's all these analyses looking back, seeing it in a very different light. The post-recession vibes and the moving away from flashy branded stuff is very on point.

[@tneowapl1-bv6gr]

lol It was a rip off of other Generation's Cultures, Styles and Cultural Heritage

[@SFae-dd6vp]

@@tneowapl1-bv6gr yeah maybe, but you could say that about a lot of youth movements and trends because nothing happens in a vacuum. The bohemian and hippie movements from the sixties borrowed a lot from Aesthetic dress from the fin de siècle period, and also the renaissance and middle ages for example. Oh and of course all sorts of oriental traditional styles. New wave and goth styles lean heavily on earlier victorian romance, etc etc

[@Jamie_OnYouTube]

LOOK MOTHER, I’M A TREND!

[@Aluenvey]

So basically indie sleeze revival is Post-Sleeze.

[@poppajwalker9344]

Indie sleeve is Julian casablancascore

[@edwardkoenig7356]

Noah Dillon is going to touch you if you call The Hellp indie sleaze one more time

[@shellbeach2322]

indie sleaze was not a term. just stop

[@alexisishome]

Enjoyed your video! However I was confused at the photography part because Juergen Teller typically shoots film, not digital?

[@LisBizkit]

What's the song at the end? I feel like its a piano cover of something that I know

[@PatTurn]

dear algorithm, pls recommend more videos like this to me. thanks

[@capnjames]

No mention of Aldn and maybe a little hyperpop influence in the indie sleeve revival ?

[@forbesfowler4841]

Very nice vid Karsten.

[@nate_storm]

SNOW STRIPPERS MENTIONED ‼️‼️

[@TBoneSteak1197]

How does indie sleaze relate to Tumblr aesthetic or was that slightly later

[@isabear478]

Tumblr is like a sickly asthestic it fits well

[@Daydreamerr13]

I don’t think of Tumblr when I think of indie sleaze. Imo the era really ended 2010-2012. During, 2013-2016 a whole new era was on tumblr Soft grunge Cyber “ghetto” King kylie That song “sweater weather by the neighboorhood😂 Alexis Ren American Horror Story Gifs And that’s just one side There was like hella other niche ass aesthetics happening 2013-2016 on tumblr. 2009-2011 was a different time I don’t remember much on there as an older Gen Z except for those weird fitspo blogs , oh and Gypsyone , LOTS of gifs during that era too

[@DJarry394]

Oh you forgot underpants, brushing teeth, eating, shitting, tee shirts, having one head…all indie sleaze

[@era2oo]

shit u got me, finding myself there, after listening to the strokes and alt rock for years

[@tneowapl1-bv6gr]

Not alt rock Different generation

[@era2oo]

@@tneowapl1-bv6gr music of the strokes is some sort of alt rock

[@gvnrddn]

Loved this analysis thank you

[@KristopherWhite-k9i]

Uzi (Gabe) was the first to bring it back in 2016 - if you know you know

[@stephenfrancis303]

Indie sleaze was in 2000 think the faint and if any one remebers myspace sex sleaze and sidepipes and club bang in los angeles

[@Nayteyou]

I remember Club bang! Also, Beat it! And, I love the faint

[@implicitnoir]

great vid!! love the visual aids

[@vhsspirit6009]

Well done!!!

[@omgitsmario7]

Indie sleaze is just hipsters lol

[@Beforeitsgone00]

Damn bro that’s wild you just described me.

[@punt2263]

I feel like original indie sleaze is plain hipster irony whereas revival indie sleaze is hipster post irony with a kind of conceptual self awareness of the refashioning of the trend. Bands like BAR ITALIA and NEW YORK are a good example of this. Its like a meta contemporary hipster take on hipsterism.

[@miketb1010]

as someone who is older and lived thru it, i just find this so silly labeling this movement...i guess we've reached a point where we cant even be original with any type of branding these days..lol..btw, the only term we really used back then was nu rave for bands that were not rave bands but indie bands that went is a dance direction....new young poney club, crystal castles, etc, etc, etc...

[@tneowapl1-bv6gr]

Uh it was already A R I P O F F You seriously think Cosplaying the 80's 90's Generation, and their Parent's Styles was N E W ?

[@cheyne3464]

I lived thru it as well.. you're 100% right.. the truth is if it isn't labelled it can't be monetized, just the sad reality of the times we're living in

[@franciscoantonio5306]

The thing about reviving something is that its gotta be dead first. Just because the kids have been listening to trap beats for the last 10 years doesn't mean the music's gone anywhere. Everyone's just dancing in the dark now lol And where are the bands and artists by the way. The music has to come first. Who exactly are this "revivals" artists?

[@suqadiqniwa]

Slimane's iconic indie sleaze timeline & rock collection was on YSL not Dior gworl

[@alexeiulinici]

Thank you! That was a great video. I liked how you showed the connection between culture and fashion in this one. I think, nevertheless, that Hedi Slimane is not pronounced "Heidi". ;)

[@jimothee3815]

ending song is washer by slint and it might be the basement version idk🤷🏾 (interesting video btw)