X4 Foundations: 7.0 Beta 3 - Is the age of super carriers gameplay over?

Hello everybody,
On this one I wanted to test if I still encounter the issue of fast torpedo bombers getting blown up by their own torpedoes. So, I took my Shark carrier + 40 interceptor Mako + 40 bomber Irukandji, for a combat test.
Well, the bombers had good performance, is just that the smoke and fire effect of delaying the explosion, increased the torpedo consumption, to the point that just 1 xenon I and 2 xenon K exhausted the bomber wing ordonance.
One might say that, well Irukandji is a scout so not much cargo capacity, but it still have 17 heavy torps, while my Chimera torpedo bombers have 21 torps capacity. The only advantage my Chimera torpedo bombers have is that there are 60 on my Raptor, compared to 40 Irukandji on my Shark. So, the Chimera wing ordonance will last longer, but not by much.
And so I wonder...is the age of super carrier + interceptors + torpedo bombers over? We need to, either put Blast Mortars on all our bombers (except the boron) or we will have to rely on...ugh, perish the thought...destroyers?
About me:
I like to share my X4 Foundations experiences, some because they are really amazing, some because they are really anoying.
Like the video? Why not buy me a coffee?
www.buymeacoffee.com/Ragnos28

[@trazyntheinfinite9895]

I will never get why games pretend that missiles are slow or have to be.....

[@TheWorldsprayer]

for player experience. Yes we know they would be so fast that you wouldn't see them move, but at the same time, ships wouldnt be flying a couple km from each other either.

[@LegionaryOfRome]

For those reasons, I find blast mortars much more reliable and safe to use, and they require no logistics. I like the usage and concept of torpedoes, tho. 1 torp launcher and 4 thermal disintegrators make the bomber also a fighter as well. But the prices are logistics and more losses... 60 b.m. bombers and 40 interceptors are devastating. Send the interceptors first and let enemy fighters focus on them (they would kill bombers) and after that send the bombers and let them slip by and kill capitals and land to the carrier...

[@ragnos28]

My Chimera bombers also have 4 gatling + 1 torpedo launcher in order to also be able to engage the capitals escorts. But can't do that with the boron Irukandji. But the problem is that 40 Irukandji X 17 heavy torps = 680 heavy torps, should have been enough to kill about 15 Ks (made some calculations back in the day, taking in consideration de 17k dmg per heavy torp). The 60 Chimera X 21 heavy torps = 1.260 heavy torps were able to kill about 28 Ks. I will do another test with the solo Shark, but if I will still consume the entire bomber wing ordonance on 4-5 Ks, I will "box" it. Meh...I could make a..."reeee, my torpedo bombers in 7.0"...topic on Egosoft forums, but I think I will adapt. Maybe the Raptor will remain capable of solo super carrier gameplay with 60 bombers and 40 interceptors. But for the rest, since I'm not gone mix tech (is kinda my thing), only my paranid fleet will have BM bombers, for the rest I will have to go with destroyers assisted by other forces, like interceptors engage the capitals turrets, when not busy doing interceptor work, and only send bombers when the destroyers will inevitably come too close and take graviton turrets fire.🤔

[@LegionaryOfRome]

@ragnos28 and after all of these, and after so much time again... I will still ask you to buy the pirate dlc to get the shih lol. It suits so well with the raptor that you will start thinking it is a split ship ❤️‍🩹 (not to mention super awesome stats)

[@ragnos28]

@@LegionaryOfRome I can't stand the pirate dlc, to the point that a viewer offer to gift it to me and I said no thank you. 🤭 I think the biggest turn off was the Erlking abomination and the "fun" chase after the BPs, the one with "just fill the sector with advanced satelites" or "open the save file with that editor and look for blah, blah", sheesh, I have to be a hacker to get a ship that I would have to buy the DLC for? Screw that... Plus, I can't stand pirates, the only thing I like about them is the way they blow up now in beta. 😁

[@LegionaryOfRome]

@@ragnos28 🤣

[@mekboy7403]

@@ragnos28 I did that shit a few days ago and it drove me mad. At first I wanted to do it legit with the advanced sat thing but couldn't find 2 even after hours of expanding the sectors borders and putting down more sats so ended up downloading a mod that put nav beacons next to them. The Erlking is fucking hideous but kind of fun to play around with for a bit but its Asgard tier OP since its baseline speed is over 400 m/s and with modded engines I've got it up to 600 m/s and its turrets range is almost 10km. Its way too squishy to trust the AI with it so when I'm done I'm probably going to park it outside the HQ.

[@davidgjenkins]

maybe they are intending to force a two wave approach with turret killers followed by torps? Fascinating changes. Love the new capital damage progression graphics too.

[@ragnos28]

Whatever the case may be, torpedoes will have to be used sparingly, from now on.

[@manug2508]

Wait, did they finally manage to get the "anti missile" command for turrets to work as they should/did in x3? That would be kinda nice to be fair! I always felt that turrets were really underwhelming as missile defense... Would be nice to know if pairing them with swarmer missiles to overwhelm the defenses still work as well as it did in previous titles!

[@ragnos28]

Hmm...I did not test the new beta turrets commands (like missiles first, for example), and I don't have the opportunity to do so, because only the VIG make use of torpedoes, and I don't want to install ToA. So, maybe someone with ToA can confirm this? 🤔

[@lagrangewei]

we just need ramming speed in this game... :)

[@ragnos28]

It's a good day to die, when you know the reasons why, For the Federation I will give my life ...😅

[@cataclysmhw4394]

It was a more spectacular fireworks display.

[@Army_of_Earth]

Correct me if I'm wrong. So the core issue is that turrets started to prioritize torpedos and this leads to more missile consumptions and that is the showcased issue? Also it seems missiles sometimes explode too early dealing no damage as I didn't see turret fire on them.

[@ragnos28]

Not so much. Is the fire and smoke effect, that cause a delay in the xenon K explosion, causing multiple torpedo salvos to be fired at a wreck. But because it take some time for the wreck to explode, bombers still "see" it as valid target and keep firing torpedoes at it. That is the issue for me, not turrets prioritizing torpedoes, in fact I consider it normal that they do.

[@jv85fr]

Hello, would blast mortar do more damage than plasma weapons on "bomber" fighters? (I always thought plasma would be the go to weapon agaisnt large targets)

[@Paski303]

Plasma would work well against big and slow / stationary stuff, but Mortar should do really good as well coz they have that aoe damage so if they’re hitting surface elements they could do quite a bit of damage. As to how much of that aoe damage becomes accident-friendly-fire ….

[@ragnos28]

I don't have the numbers right now, but I remember that BMs have about double the plasma dmg. 🤔 I also have a visual aid: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gprTiZKme895sK8 😁

[@Paski303]

Dayum, researching for module blueprints cant come soon enough to vanilla gameplay (hopefully)

[@magicwordxyzzy]

@@Paski303 haha...funny short story about accidental friendly fire. I made a fleet where I flew a medium ship, and had about 20 small ships winged with me, and they all had thermal disintegrators. I made the fleet for in-sector fun. It was a mistake, having friendly fire pick away at the hulls of everyone as the area was a sea of thermal disintegrator fire.

[@RMMinc]

With raptor you can probably just refit fighter wing to also be fighter-bomber variant. Minus 20% fighter dps for 21*60 more torps? Sadly no such option for shark. And seeing how long second K lasted... Damn this going to be expensive endeavour.

[@phasejumper9112]

I think its bad how they behave now around the XL-Ships. They stay at range instead of doing bombing runs like before. They fly slow around the Ship and the Torpedos wont get the momentum and therefore are very slow. So they shoot way to many that way and most of the Torpedos will get shot.

[@ragnos28]

There also the issue of firing multiple salvos to what is basically a wreck. And I still get the occasional Irukandji and Chimera fast traveling in the blast of their own torpedoes. Might be the end of torpedo meta... And the worst thing is that the supposed solution, the destroyers...did not have it on "camera" yet, but from what I've seen, the destroyers wing still move like crap and still bundle up. ☹

[@trlavalley9909]

@@ragnos28 So the Destroyer AI is still Sh*t? I'm guessing.

[@ragnos28]

@@trlavalley9909 Yes, yes it is. 😁 But that is just my opinion, some players on forums and the devs seem so content with the "improvements", so who am I to ruin the celebration party...🤤

[@trlavalley9909]

@@ragnos28 Well the Devs would be celebrating. I guess we'll see about players in a few weeks. : )

[@Paski303]

Whilst happy and terrified that Xenon turrets are actively shooting missiles, the carrier-inventory always has been a fidgety bit. U dont have full contol on what wares to hold, gotta go thru fidgety management like switching out all the resources for components for HeavyTorps in your instance …. The idea is there XD soon tm ……

[@TheWorldsprayer]

so this version finally improves fighter/carrier behavior?

[@ragnos28]

Not really. It increased the ordonance consumption of S torpedo bombers and made almost all carriers not usable because the bug of fighters getting caught in the carrier texture is back with a vengence. Atm, I can only use the Raptor, because fighters get stuck less often, because of the way they land, on top of the carrier.😐

[@trazyntheinfinite9895]

Was it ever a thing? Supercarrier gameplay? Never seen a problem i could not drown in osakas and gunboats

[@ragnos28]

Yes, it was. 😉 This is the Raptor: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eqrSeqhnf6t_gc0 and this is the Shark: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fnbae2OemLx1r9k , those were the days... 🥲

[@egoaut]

I would say, there was never a time for bombers like Irukanji😂 Better take a Moreya, yes i know your ......But 4x Torpedos is better than 4x Scouts. Maybe its the age of a mix with some Torpedo bomber, like 5x Torp Barracudas and 25x Makis😊

[@ragnos28]

No, not the Baracudas 😮...I still remember when my wing of torpedo Baracudas could not catch up a xenon K and I had to order my Interceptor Makos to kill the engines of the K. 😅 A truly pathetic fighter, because of its speed, or rather lack of it... As for the 4 torp launchers vs 1...the problem is that the ordonance capacity does not increase that much, a Chimera with 1 torp launcher can carry 21 torps, with 5 launchers I think it can carry about 25, not much to be gained imo, plus I hate the concept of helpless bombers (if it is not the Irukandji with 536 m/s and 10k m/s in travel mode). Besides, no Yaki = no Moreya for me... I'm about to all but box the Shark, the beta mess up the landing of ships on it, I've seen even fighters trying to push the carrier away, just like the M that can be seen in the clip. 🙁 Always two steps forward one step back with Egosoft. 😢

[@egoaut]

Hehe, yes its slow, but 34 missiles!!!111 Btw. maybe its time for a new game, with Yakis😅

[@ragnos28]

@@egoaut I don't care, that xenon K going in to the distance with the wing of Baracudas after it, like a giant duck with babies after it, is forever stuck in my mind. 🤤 If the Baracudas were any slower, they would be standing still...I think is the only fighter that is actualy slower that its race carrier.😵 As for starting over...to give you an idea of how much I hate to start over, in 4.700 hours I've made only 3 starts, one argon and two terran.

[@egoaut]

I loved the ZYA start the most....it was a brutal challenge ❤the first few days. TER was boring, ARG was without DLCs and the actual TOA nice, but not compare able with the ZYA one.

[@ragnos28]

@@egoaut I did terrans and argon, cuz I don't RP as other races. Some ppl imagine that they are lizards or have three eyes, not me, I live on Earth and so I'm terran or argon. 🤭