x4 - Tides of Avarice - Erlking Vs Asgard

[@TinkyTheCat]

To put it in perspective: The Asgard is far *far* stronger as a player-controlled ship. The AI has no clue how to use its main gun - you know, the giant doom laser that is 90% of the Asgard's total damage output. Meanwhile, the Erlking is much stronger in the AI's hands (or less nerfed, if we're being honest, since *all* ships do better in the player's hands) because the vast majority of its damage potential comes from its turrets.

[@TurKlack]

They wouldn't need to know how to use that, and all the other L class guns, if Egosoft would just stop giving them any. I still can't fathom what madness befell them when they cam to that decision anyways.

[@trazyntheinfinite9895]

​@@TurKlackso you see, i can explain. X3 Terran Conflict is what really introduced player controlled Capitalships, fully fledged out control. One of the complaints from a vocal minority who do not understand the concept of "The Boss does not do menial tasks" (like aiming and firing guns) was that the player had little to do when taking direct control. So in x4, the idea was that the main guns would be the "players tool". Ai ships with disabled mains work better generally.

[@SmarterThanAll]

Umm the Asgard was taking shots from both Ks the instant you spawned in. The Erlking has several minutes before the K got in range to fire their main batteries. The Elking would have been totaled in less than 30 seconds in the Asgards position.

[@TRDTYukiTV]

the earlking remains my favourite ship in the game, not only is it fun as hell to sit back and let turrets do the work, its fast, so getting around isnt such a pain

[@trazyntheinfinite9895]

give the asgard plasmas instead of terran turrets.

[@The0Gizmo]

The problem with the Asgard is the AI has no idea how to use it properly. The AI will try to run away with the Asgard from an enemy capital ship that is nearby, which is dumb because the Asgard can't run away from anything except a station. Instead the AI should just turn to face the enemy capital ship, regardless of how close it is, and blast it away with the XL main battery. That and stop the AI from firing the XL main battery at empty space next to the enemy. Good thing about the Erlking is that it appears to mostly be a turret battleship, which allows the AI to be as dumb as it wants and still be effective.

[@TheRuggedGamer]

Exactly

[@idontevenknow4900]

12 days late: did you set the ai behaviour properly? If you set your global reaction to escape when attacked, that’s going to be your problem. Set it to resist and ai will kill enemy instead of escaping

[@1024det]

Whats bizarre is the Erlking model does not match its stats. It has a massive main gun but it is not its best weapon. Its hull looks weak or missing, exposing its inner components but it actually has a massive hull points. The two ships should switch their models.

[@juicebox6581]

I was expecting the erlking to be equipped with its unique turrets. those babies are mean.

[@radnachtmadder663]

I guess one could deploy the Erlking to run tactical support for Asgards and Raptors. It's kind of that ship that could draw in most of the enemy's supporting forces and pin down their offensive firepower so that the Asgards (effectively anti-large target) could then be brought in to do their work on key targets (stations, Xenon I) and a carrier could unleash fighters to mop up the place for good (finish off enemy fighters and frigates basically). And I guess given that the AI isn't perfect, the Erlking should be the ship the player flies to keep his fleet safe.

[@TheRuggedGamer]

Pretty much!

[@JoshMillikan]

i would love to see a comparison between the erlking and raptor. since turrets are such a major thing in the game.

[@SergeyPupkoMusic]

Now put the AI into the Erlking and send it into the the xenon horde, while you, the player, sits back in the Asgard and takes out large targets with main battery. Yes, the recharge takes a while but if all the Erlking has to deal with is mosquitos you'd have a two-ship wrecking ball to wreck them all.

[@Dreez76]

The thing most players don't realize is that if you get a max crew high lvl, this ship will basically be able to armortank due to the repairs from the crew and drones.

[@ArthurOseven]

The Erlking is a fun ship. I already like it.

[@TheRuggedGamer]

I think it could be a little stronger, but then again ive always been a fan of the asgard

[@icenote1591]

What are the red projectiles on the erlking? split plasma??

[@TheRuggedGamer]

Off top of my head, earlking has its own turret types (its been a while since ive had that ship)

[@Rotore]

Where i buy Erlking?

[@TheRuggedGamer]

You unlock it in the story

[@Rotore]

@@TheRuggedGamer grazie! Tanks

[@CreatorOfWorlds]

What if the enemy ships had come in from the left… Am i right that most turrets are on the right side of the erlking

[@TheRuggedGamer]

The speed at which the erlking can rotate, doesnt make much difference, it would just bring its largest arsenal round faster than most ships

[@blackfalcon1324]

I think spawning the asgard in the middle of a bunch of ks was probably not the best test. That isnt very realistic. Usually it would approach them which would give it a chance to fire its main gun a few times.

[@skylerjr2648]

Note, the damage includes the battery as well as the beam. Granted, the beam is nearly 99% of that value. You can nearly one shot every ship in the game from a stock Asgard beam. With mods, you can one shot everything except a few station modules and the Xenon I. The shields are strong enough that even though the Asgard is one of the slowest fucking things in the game, it can ignore a large amount of fighters and corvettes while getting within beam range of capitals. In fact, you can ram the Xenon I with the Asgard and just keep spamming the battery/ beam until it dies. It takes several I's to be a threat. Another key is crew capacity. The Asgard is largely immune to piracy due to having the largest capacity of all ships. It takes a fleet of ships to have a chance in hell of it. The Erlking has a respectable 328 vs Asgard 360. Lastly, load out. If we restrict both to faction equipment, the Asgard steam rolls. Especially if you allow support. The Katana can solo most of the Avarice content in players hands.

[@TheRuggedGamer]

All good and very valid points. I love the asgard lol

[@skylerjr2648]

@@TheRuggedGamer Not hating on the Erlking. It definitely is faster. It looks weird, but it's a neat and new design. All of Avarice content is. The Asgard kind of sucks in AI hands. Even 5 star pilots derp around. Seemingly forgetting they have a giant death laser and one of the toughest ships in the game. Made better by outranging everything. Instead they tend to go full retard into the enemy. Eventually dying if no support is sent with them. The Erlking does much better. It has enough speed to outrun a K in reverse. While the turrets pound away. Properly equipped, you can fly circles around most capitals and eventually kill them. The AI seems to do much better with it. Just watch out as once those shields are down it dies fast. Still, watching enemy fighters and corvettes fly into the death beam never gets old. I've seen entire wings of Kha'ak and Xenon get wiped out while I was attacking a station or capital.

[@MrEpic86]

Why is your erlking shield 300,000 MJ lower than my erlking? Have you even fully upgraded it with all the blueprints because your speed is half what it should be in it aswell.

[@TheRuggedGamer]

Both ships were as standard as it gets for the test, theres a lot more into it it was more a "have a look" scenario, ill probs do a better video when I unlock in the storyline

[@MrEpic86]

@@TheRuggedGamer the erlking doesn't have a storyline as far as im aware. Im not sure if its bugged or not as it seems it probably should have one. I've heard you may even be able to add the atf xl main battery from the asgard to it but I have yet to find the funds to try this. Love the content, there's so much to these games the community needs people like you.

[@demi_narch8674]

Since the Asgard doesn't use its main weaponry, Maybe disable Erlking Special turret? It's sad, In my un-modded game, I see one lonely Terran Asgard just entered Hatilvahs choice 1. My Syn AI somehow decided to travel that route so I teleport and take control of the Syn, I don't want to Lose my Only Syn Destroyer this early game, Since there was literally 1 Xeno I and 3 K's there and their support fleets. What a big surprise I was. Asgard AI knows how to use its main weapon if the range is right, because it destroyed the I and one of the K's without my help. and I destroyed one K, flanked by the last, I was ready to reload saved game, only to have an Asgard beam destroy the last K, afterward the Medium/Small Xeno ships were a joke to my Syn and the AI-controlled Asgard. of cause, Later, the same Asgard got destroyed by 2 Ks and a fleets, because the Asgard used its main weaponry on Medium-sized ships and was outflanked. The Ai get all stupid suddenly :/

[@res2590]

I think the Asgard is a sniper and the Erlking is a brawler. Both would have their strength and weakness. Looks like the AI can handle the Erlking better. I think in player hand the Asgard is great. If properly done no big ship will even come in fire range. Weakness would be an overwhelming force of small ships which will kill the turrets and engines. I guess the Erlking will fall as soon there are to many large ships in range. I guess both ships are good in a fleet to compensate the weakness.

[@gabeux]

Aye. For the Asgard to be comparable, it would need great Tier 3 Modifications to be installed, which makes it insane. Still, it can't really hold out a whole Xenon fleet on its own like here, so Erlking is indeed a hell of a ship and fills a different - yet much needed - role.

[@robertstretton3347]

The Erlking is not a battleship its a Cruisers at best, you cant compare it to the Asgard and why would you put L Bolt class turrets on it The Erlkings are Plus Lasers and powerful and can only be put on the Erlkink you should have put ARG L Plasma 's .

[@TheRuggedGamer]

The Erlking is an XL Battleship, thats its ship type lol. Hence the comparison with another battleship. it outperformed...

[@robertstretton3347]

@@TheRuggedGamer Yes thats what they have classed it as, dosnt mean that it is, and it did not outperform you gimmped the Asgard the Erlking L Turrets (from what i have read are almost as good XEN Garviton) with a rang of 9km which means it engaged the K's at range one at a time the Bolts you gave the Asgard have a range of 5.6 which meant the Asgard engaged two at once with poor weapons had it had L Plasma's it would have done much better. Yes against M and S class fighters its a beast and am looking forward to using it but I would still use the Asgard for I's K's and stations.

[@TheRuggedGamer]

@@robertstretton3347 And I agree with you. My statement at the end literally says, against dogfights the erlking is amazing, against stations and slow targets, the Asgard is far better. Plasma turrets would only help against the Ks which is why I gave it bolt to face off against smaller ships

[@J.D.Vision]

What about the Ragnarok?

[@TheRuggedGamer]

? Theres no purchasable battleship called ragnarok?

[@NorseOkies]

@@TheRuggedGamer The Ragnarok is basically a Modded Asgard with 3 times the more turrets. It's no understatement that that ship alone could obliterate the entire systems. But I understand you run vanilla and I respect that.

[@J.D.Vision]

@@NorseOkies New to the game, been playing for a year, just recently started using mods. I'm no Einstein, but some parts of the game still elude me, mods help a bunch but are addicting.

[@NorseOkies]

@@J.D.Vision i have to admit that I'm a bit of an achievement wh*re, so I played with no mods for a long time. But once started nodding, I couldn't stop. You gain access to more ship, more weapons, and even some balancing issues if you do the VRO mod. But i love cruising around with the Ragnarok, altho I DO admit it's way too OP.

[@J.D.Vision]

@@NorseOkies .... Same here, played casually 2020-2021, and just started modifying the game this year, it's crazy. Can't stop building armadas, spend too much time modding every little ship inside the bigger ones, and overtaking Xenon territories. I'm trying to scale back with this new expansion, only modding till I absolutely need it... Didn't stop me from starting out with a couple of Terror battleships (pirate ships) and the faster version of the Cyclops.

[@ManhNguyen-vd5qj]

You started the Asgard much closer than the Erlking since it was taking turret fire at the start. While the Erlking brought down the first K well into the hull before the K even started firing.

[@TheRuggedGamer]

It was more a surface test of the turrets, ill most likely do a more in depth test

[@ManhNguyen-vd5qj]

@@TheRuggedGamer I would use creative start for these tests lol.

[@TheRuggedGamer]

@@ManhNguyen-vd5qj that was a creative start... lol

[@TinkyTheCat]

Wouldn't make much difference. The Erlking's turrets have double the range, and four times the damage, of any Terran L turrets. The Asgard underperforms in AI hands because it simply won't fire the main laser battery (on the rare occasions it does, it misses even stationary targets). It does have two Terran main batteries (which the AI will use) that outperform the Erlking's single main battery - if it'd had time to bring them around. Honestly, the Syn probably would've fared a lot better than the Asgard in this scenario.

[@SmarterThanAll]

@@TinkyTheCat objectively false the Erlking would have been totaled by those two Ks in less than 30 seconds if it was in the same position as the Asgard. He literally spawned the Asgard a klick away from two Ks that immediately started firing their main guns. The Erlking had minutes to adjust before getting in range of the Ks.

[@04jeanpiero]

Do the same test but this time get at least 2 batteries of dumb fire missiles on the asgard with full ammo load...Ks will be vaporized!

[@Mondfischli]

...gimme those turrets on a Raptor 😁 ....would probably break the game balance 🤧 ...until the Boron arrive 🤔

[@TheRuggedGamer]

Yeah, that would wreck a LOT

[@domicplus2255]

i like very asgard

[@ingrimmschboindil1302]

The only point about the asgard is the one shot main gun, the L turret dps is too weak for a battleship. Your test showed it perfectly, the AI dont use the main gun so its useless. All in all am quite disapointet about the Erlking, 1 XL shield and just getting one shot from the asgard. But love the changes to the turrets. Usefull range and damage, all bigger ships would need that. An overall rebalance for turrets dps and range for all factions would be needed. Result: You can call the erlking a cruiser and not a battleship. Give those turrets to all battleships and buff the xenon turret range to balance it. The whole balance around those short ranged xenon turrets, useless faction turrets and there focus on main guns. I dont understand why they made it that way. I want ships to shot at each other. The Xenon I looks so odd beeing so big but only got such a short turret rang.

[@dark2sphere523]

Asgards with Argon/Paranid plasma turrets fix almost everything. If Xenon gravity turret gets it range buffed, how do we defend our station?

[@ingrimmschboindil1302]

@@dark2sphere523 There is no point to argue about turrets, its about simple numbers and they are just weak. You can see that in the video, the asgad cant do anything vs 2 K destroyers (with 16 L turrets) There is a reason egosoft buffed the erlking turrets. Stations are the most imba thing in the game cause you can stack turrets. I dont get your question about defending them. As the VRO modguy showed (i hope he is safe!!) just 1 guy can rebalance shields, turrets, mainguns. Thats why i dont understans why they dont rebalance shields, ship hp, turrets, mainguns. Like i can jump into a sector with a rattlesnake and kill 3 xenon K and a xenon I, it takes me like 15 mins and they cant do anything about that.

[@dark2sphere523]

@@ingrimmschboindil1302 Asgad in video didn't use "PLASMA" turrets. Asgard has 16 L turrets and 2 K have only 12. Unless OOS or sit still, Asgard always win in my game. It's good enough. Also Erlking focus on unique turrets and Asgard shine with its XL battery.

[@ingrimmschboindil1302]

@@dark2sphere523 I see its pointless to argue with you. The basic combat balance ( shields, damage, hp) in the game is just bad. The asgard is the perfect example, it can one shot a xenon I with its maingun but cant handl 2 destroyers. If you are pleased with a lacking game design then its ok. I always feel bad for a xenon I, such a huge and cool ship but it cant hit anything with its funny short range. Well i dont play vanilla anyway and would have stopped playing without VRO anyway.

[@ingrimmschboindil1302]

@@dark2sphere523 i mean you really mention the asgard xl battery as something good omg yeah wow Devs: "Hey guys our turrets suck how can we make a battleship. Mhmhmhm well just give her a main gun that can one shot the biggest ship in the game" Yeah you are right buddy, awesome combat design wow wooow wooooooow

[@MJ0101_]

Lol taking out (manually, of course) 3ks and 1i its laughable to compare this piece of scrap with godlike asgard

[@locowolfie]

This might be the most biased video ive seen you literally put the Asgard sidelong next to 2K’s within Gravity range and go “Asgard so bad” hur dur dur. 👎

[@DeepInsideZettaiRyouiki]

AI can't use main guns on neither apparently. Both should be good against stations considering main guns and range. Both are crap same as Raptor ...Eriking seems least shit but looks worst, thus all suck.

[@bubbabenali]

From what I've seen on the web the Erlking should be faster flying backwards than the K can fly forwards, that and the 9km range of it's weapons makes it my ultimate XL player ship. Tha Asgard is nice for OOS stuff but that is the least important item on my personal features checklist

[@TheRuggedGamer]

I agree.