Xenogears Discussion Part 2

[@AnselmoFormolo]

Why does Emerelda suddenly turn into an adult?.......Nanomachines, son!

[@Philosopher1701]

The best translation for the Zohar engine that I've seen is "phenomenon alteration engine". Basically, it refers to the fact that the Zohar accesses an infinite amount of energy from the dimension of the Wave Existence and pulls it down into our universe, and allows one to shape reality in any way that one desires. The "power of God" and all that. I love the idea that the Wave Existence is "God" in the most secular sense, a somewhat omnipotent being that doesn't entirely understand humanity. The central theme of the story, represented by the two one-winged angels in the Nisan Cathedral, is that humanity is broken and that people need each other in order to fly. Myahh (Miang's actual name; supposed to be part of Elly's name spelled backwards), in the form of Deus, wants to restore the "spiritual unity" that existed at the beginning of the universe, when the human collective consciousness existed as one unified will (there are Gnostic, Kabbalistic, and Jungian references in all of this). Karellen (Krelian's actual name, a reference to an Arthur C. Clarke novel) essentially wants the same thing, but considers the Wave Existence to be the true God. In the end, he actually did manage to ascend to the higher dimension, represented by his two wings. So he stands alone, a "perfect" human being, and expresses envy towards Fei and Elly's love. The core message is that we should embrace our humanity and confront our flaws head-on. The villains oppose this message; they would rather reject their humanity and abandon this universe altogether. It should be noted that many of these same concepts are explored in greater detail in Xenosaga.

[@ResonantArc]

Excellent explanation! That all seems to fit, and that translation makes A LOT more sense!

[@Philosopher1701]

Yes, the translation is so odd in this game. Sometimes it's great, sometimes it's awful. Richard Honeywood, the translator, said that the other translators were afraid to even touch the script because of the controversial religious themes and the complex science fiction jargon. He translated most of the game by himself. Another guy translated the opening animated cutscenes before the rest of the localization was finished, so he didn't have any idea what the story was even about. The result is that the characters in those scenes refer to Deus as "they" instead of "it". Budget and time constraints prevented the localization team from fixing the error. I suspect that some of your issues with Fei really come down to the translation. Lines like "My father? You mean my dad?" really make him sound dumb. I think he's a very likable character. Like Xenosaga, Takahashi seems to have based the characters on the Enneagram personality types. Fei is a Type 9, the Peacemaker. This type doesn't like conflict, and always tries to avoid it. They would rather withdraw from others and escape into their own imaginations. At their most unhealthy levels, Type 9's can develop Dissociative Identity Disorder. I'm sure this all sounds familiar, heh. Also, the dialogue in the Gazel Ministry scenes are kind of a mess. Some of it is so bad that it literally doesn't make any sense. There is a scene where they say "Knigret", a proper noun no less, when the word should have been "neglect". Some censorship was involved as well, like "Church" being changed to "Ethos". You should also read through the fan translation of Xenogears: Perfect Works. It elaborates on everything. Oh, and fun fact: Xenogears takes place around the year 17,276 A.D. That's based on all the calendar conversions. It's a mind-boggling thought.

[@frozenaorta]

CosmicGnosis Awesome diagnoses. Particularly in the late 90's, we could never know exactly what was a mistranslation and what wasn't. When you combine that ambiguity with a plot that is overwhelmingly complex, a lexicon of terminology specific to this fictional universe, and a rushed exposition dump during the second half of the game -- well, you've got a lot confused young gamers. A lot of the dialogue and exposition just felt like ostentatious nonsense. Confusing just for the sake of being confusing. Years later, I would find information online to help explain these narratives and themes, and this was truly a masterpiece in writing. It's a shame that it never got fleshed out in a coherent fashion. Compound this on clumsy mistranslations that had no business existing in 1998. That's criminal for a story this good. This project merited better treatment than it got, and it's a testimony to its strength that it still holds up in spite of all these problems.

[@dksu]

4 years later, but I'll comment anyways because I just finished the game for the second time (20 years later lol). I agree with almost all of this, and it's put very eloquently! The one point of disagreement is that I don't believe that Myahh's endgame had anything to do with the spiritual unity of humanity - she acted as the agent of Deus from the start, and sought only to complete it's eventual reconstitution. In the world of Xenogears, that eon-spanning process - which is also the cause for humanity's very existence - took the *ideological* form of the 'spiritual unity of humanity', but in practice it was strictly a project to rebuild Deus so it could continue on it's path of destruction.

[@MProject777]

Cannot comment because I'm a biased fanboy who would love to see this game be 300 hours.

[@ResonantArc]

Haha! Fair enough! I will say, after a week of thinking about the game and researching its development history, my appreciation only continues to grow!

[@mylesschultz2848]

I've got to say, I completely agree. I'm biased in that I really enjoy long, epic stories, but I would have loved 300 hours, too, lol. The game has its problems, but most of them stemmed from lack of or repealed support of them game from Square as a company due to the development of FF7 and any other titles they may have had in concept at that time. The studio working on Xenogears was most definitely working on what would have been the most epic game had they completed it as originally planned and intended. However, Tetsuya Takahashi later stated he did not realize the effort that went into making the previous titles he had worked on like FF6. Also, his staff was naive to producing 3D games. So you're right, time management became an issue. I'm glad they didn't cut anything, I just wish they had had more time, and honestly a more experienced team, to realize a completed title. Thankfully, the did make Perfect Works which helps fill in some gaps for fans. I really do hope that one day they do an honest remake that does the epic story justice, but we'll see. I'm glad you got enjoy a game that I played so many times, I've lost count of my play throughs, lol.

[@jonathandiosa5739]

Remake needed now that FF7 is being remade

[@warren286]

Totally agree. Absolutely love this game and wish they had more time to fully tell the story. Maybe make prequels and sequels. I had high hopes for Xenosaga, but it was a cheap attempt at recreation. I love FF7 but Xenogears has a way more advanced theme.

[@trueblueclue]

Same. Disc 1 didn't feel like 50 hours. I mean that in a good way.

[@strafeson]

I played Xenogears when I was in high school in the late 90s. Absolutely loved it and still use Krelian for character names. Not once have I considered that the reason it's so great and so different from other games is how well the villains are handled. When you said that, it totally made sense. As much as I love the story, it doesn't work without the villains being written how they are. Good analysis, man.

[@samuelfgonzalezrivera3283]

As many others, the music stuck to me as a kid in my early teen years, so much that after the years, I came around to find and download the OST and also the orchestrated version he did afterwards plus attempt to play some songs myself. Now, I was little and I guess the music was that powerful for me back then. If I were to play it today as for a first time, I wouldn't know what my reaction will be. But as of today, the music remains as nostalgic as ever bringing back the emotions for the game, which I believe is what makes it the best game ever for most who judge it that way. I just loved the story so much for the same reasons you pointed out early in the video (massive, epic, etc...). Loved watching your videos in discussion for this game as it is a long time running favorite. Thank you! Will be waiting on the review.

[@iftekharahmed6799]

If you were curious about the sudden shift from Disk 1 to Disk 2, basically, Square took the funding from Xenogears to Final Fantasy VII I. Because of this coupled with the unrealistic sales expectations, Tetsuya Takahashi left Square to form Monolith Soft due to the lack of support from corporate management.

[@mopeybloke]

Is there any official word on that from Takahashi or anyone else at Square?

[@rabid_si]

@@mopeybloke No. It's generally believed now that rather than running out of money, they simply ran out of time. Squaresoft at the time were big on getting products to market within a set amount of time (approx 2 year development cycle not including pre-production) and that Xenogears just massively overshot an already set in stone time budget. Again, this all comes down to management and it's something that plagued the directors later titles as well. It's clear Takahashi would really benefit with having a production partnership with a team that is capable of reeling him in. The guy is talented and super ambitious but his productions often lack cohesive focus and pacing.

[@TheCmurley131]

Major kudos to you on this video -- one the best gaming "discussion" videos I've seen. I think you've nailed a unique KZbin video genre here that captures the middle-ground between "first-look" and "review" - it's that special place where thoughts are very fresh and flowing, but still being formed and not solidified -- makes for the best discussion in my opinion. I heard you mention in this video the Freudian undertones of this game, and fully agree that it (along with many psychology schools) added a very interesting level of depth to the characters. I first played this game in middle-school, and then later in high school I played Xenosaga. After taking a psychology class, I really looked into some of these meanings back then -- Xenosaga embodies a number of Jungian psychology aspects, such as Archetypes, collective unconscious, and process of individualization. Both games contain references to Jacques Lacan as well (yes, the name Lacan being the clearest reference). So both games take frameworks of a different schools of psychology, it seems, and then sprinkled into both are philosophical and heavy religious undertones to further layer complexity into the story. And the final piece is that all of this is coming from a Japanese perspective as well --- holy cow. As if the story itself wasn't crazy. One of the best games ever made in my opinion, but low replay value due to the hours and hours of pressing 'x' through narrative. And you are SO right about the music - when you made reference to the battle / stressful situation music in Discussion #1, I immediately knew the song and yet haven't played the game in ~10 years -- that''s how seared into my mind it was. I hope your channel gets a million more followers, it's really great!

[@ResonantArc]

Thanks, Cody! I'm glad you enjoyed the format! Psychology has always been fascinating to me. If I had not decided to become a filmmaker, I'm certain I would have chosen to be a psychologist, so seeing how creatively all these principles of psychology were embedded into this game was really appealing to me. Xenogears' story for this reason has a lot of impact. It's an incredibly memorable experience, if also a frustrating one at times. Thanks for taking the time to reach out! I appreciate the discussion.

[@mattcat83]

Critical feedback is being asked for with these discussion videos. What a brilliant idea! :) DPG could go into more detail about how and why the villains shine so much. He makes an effort not to spoil the story of games that are over a decade old, which is nice if the intended audience are viewers young enough to be unfamiliar with these titles, but for veteran gamers such as myself that played these games as they came out, spoiler-filled discussion allow for more penetrating analysis and a broader perspective on the game. With a title such as Xenogears, the plot and story are so complex, that such discussion is necessary to truly see why so many deeply enjoy it. I spent many enjoyable hours in the late 90s talking Xenogears with my friends just trying to connect all the dots. Xenogears rewards such reflection on second playthroughs even if not every loose-end is wrapped up in a tidy bow (as with Chrono Trigger, for example). On this last point, some claim that Chrono Cross was necessary to wrap up Schala's story, but I believe that this is incidental.

[@ChocolatierRob]

It's stupid o clock AM right now but I'll throw one thing in here for now about Emeralda. Admittedly I'm just at the beginning of the lighthouse bit so this is based on pretty old memories but I think the part about her suddenly growing up is meant to be that her body is a reflection of her mental state. Throughout the game she does not really comprehend what is happening around her very well as she is a very new being (stasis aside) but by the end of the lighthouse section she learns enough to properly understand what she is and comprehend the world around her, this breakthrough is reflected in her body. She becomes an adult through a sort of mental epiphany. She finally breaks through the AI singularity to becomes a fully stable, sentient being. As a nanomachine colony she fashions her body appropriately to reflect this (or was designed for her body to react this way by Kim).

[@ResonantArc]

That's an interesting point. I can definitely see that being true.

[@bainjohn]

I believe perfect works says something along those lines. I'll see if I can find exactly what it was they said about it

[@ZeldaMOMOe]

ugh I love this. LOVE THIS. I cosplay "grown up" Emeralda and when my friend was Fei and we were taking photos at a con, he wanted cute father & daughter pics and I'm like.. but dude she's so much more confident as an "adult," and doesn't have much of the father-complex anymore so I think it'd be weird. Lol he agreed so we just decided to do those as silly derpy photos rather than good photoshoot pics. I'd love to see what Perfect Works said if you find it!

[@bainjohn]

thanks for the reminder - I'd totally spaced this. I'll put that on my todo list so I don't forget again

[@bainjohn]

perfect works says/implies that when they first meet, emeralda sees fei as kim, and subconsciously behaves as the child he and elly wanted when they made her. as she comes to accept kim as being dead and gone, her body changes, leaving the child behind and forming her own consciousness free of her attachment to kim. this new, independent emeralda is making the conscious decision to join fei's cause for the future of mankind instead of merely following fei as a father figure.

[@rivzi]

Well-done discussion. Two vids are my reason for subscribe your channel. Xenogears discussion one and this, two. So rich testimonials, your voice clear, and no misleading sentence. fyi, Xenogears are my masterpieces gaming experience.

[@ResonantArc]

Thanks, Arief!

[@jonlyons6351]

That Maria-related track you mention towards the end is called "Flight" and it's great. It definitely says "girl dressed like an old-timey pilot triumphantly standing on the shoulder of a giant robot powered by her dad's soul." One of the weird things about Xenogears, though, is how it would occasionally veer into outright pastiche at the most random times, and when I played it that's the vibe I got with Dominia and the rest combining, since their gear looked so "heroic" it needed appropriately heroic music. But I think that's ultimately symptomatic of something that dragged the game down, namely an inability of the writers or director or whomever to "smother their darlings" and cut things that don't serve the overall story no matter how much they might love them as individual bits. Sure, have the Elements in combining robots, but someone should have been there to say "is this really the time for an out-of-the-blue Voltron homage? ...Or Fei and Rico having a mystery caper in the sewers for that matter?" Basically Xenogears needed a good editor, and then I think it would get the wider recognition it deserves. These videos are great and I agree with pretty much everything you've said. I'm in the camp that can forgive things falling apart in the second half, but I definitely lament what could have been. Citan will always be dope as hell though.

[@IdTheDemon]

Xenogears has been on my top game lists ever since it came out and I was in the 7th grade. I was a huge Macross, Gundam and Neon Genesis Evangelion (And that story I didn't fully get when I was in middle school ) so when I read in the magazines about Squaresoft (RIP Squaresoft) and giant robots, I was sold. This was the first videogame story that truly blew my mind away. I didn't see the Id plot twist coming (again, I was a kid so a lot of things went over my head) and while I guessed that Grahf was Fei's father (due to the obvious Darth Vader inspiration), it was his character that made me feel for a villain. While yes Grahf wanted to destroy the world and humanity, it wasn't like Lavos for feeding energy to conquer more planets, like Sephiroth for a crisis of birthrights, nor like Kefka for the lulz. He lost the woman he loved, and more importantly, realized that due to Deus' design and the Wave Existence, he has lost Elly in the past and will always lose her. Him dying and living in spirit in pure spite of humanity and god reminds me of Bram Stoker's Dracula. Lacan/Grahf is easily up there with Luca Blight and Delita. As you said, the villains are so amazing in this story as Krelian, Ramsus and even the Gazel Ministry (those tv cubes who were part of the first humans born by Deus) have their reasons. My only issues with the game have always been 2 things: Pacing (as you also noticed) and disc 2. Budgets cuts aside though, this game was produced by Squaresoft in their prime. I would kill for either a restored game, or more importantly an anime series for all 5 episodes. To see the rise and fall of Lacan, the destruction of the Earth via Alpha Weltall alone would be worth it.

[@lake4ishikawa]

I absolutely agree with one thing you said in particular: this game is SO charming and valuable that people are willing to look past some of the biggest mistake I've ever seen in the creation of a videogame. I think I could possibly come up with a huge list of all the wrong choices that were made in this game, and despite that I would still love it. I don't think any other game that I know of ever managed to have this particular characteristic.

[@TheMetalGaia]

Mike, you have no idea how much I smiled when you started playing Emeralda's song as SOON as you said her name. I've always loved her design, and my daughter is going to be named after her. She'll be my little "June Mermaid" ;) I do agree she could have had more depth. I really wanted something to flesh out her character, because she is so intriguing to me!

[@ResonantArc]

I do my best to make the music fit :) Is this a daughter currently on the way or a future daughter? Either way it's a adorable idea and I hope you get to see it come to fruition.

[@RadicalDreamer17]

That's cool ! She's indeed intriguing... but I think not much could have been done with her in the game (she's used by Krelian and that's the only thing she's needed for in the plot). Or Episode 3 (she barely even exists in this... she's just part of Kim and Elly's own development). She really grows into her own at the end of the game and I think she would only shine in a sequel (also, she's most likely immortal... so it's possible to do a story with her in a distant future). Also, I think she's the most unique robot character in any Xeno game (she's a shapeshifter). I sort of wish SquareEnix could include her in a fighting game.

[@jonathandiosa5739]

Imagine they made a shortfilm about Emeraldas few hours of consciousness just before the Zeboim Civilizations collapse. Then, in a seperate movie, fast forward a couple 1000 years to Fei and Ellys story and tie that in w Emeralda later on ... Thats really how the games should have been. They attempted to pull a star wars and start at a random episode, 5, and work backwards.

[@bainjohn]

I'd love to voice some dissent, y'know, 'for science!' and all, but I'm afraid I agree with pretty much everything you said. I like your take on the management aspect - most people quote bad management for the second disc, but the way you talked about it regarding the first disc makes far more sense to me.

[@Fac117]

Excellent video, can't wait for the review! I would have liked to hear your opinion about the ending too, but I understand you wanted to avoid spoilers as much possible in this vid.

[@JCrossJ]

First of all, great discussion video! I laughed a lot with the first minute; it’s funny how you have to adress this sort of thing here on youtube. I’m very glad you ended up appreciating the battle system, specially regarding the Gears. I won’t speak for the late game because I haven’t touched that in a big while, but for the first 30 hours the battle system would be so boring if it weren’t for the strategy gears bring in with their fuel, their boosters, deathblow levels and equipment. Seriously, I’m very happy that you understood the intended strategy behind all of those gameplay mechanics. Regarding Fei, judging by your comments, I think they did a fantastic job on creating a completely flawed character. I think him asking Elly “Is that your mother?” is pretty much another translation issue (or I hope so anyways); but him not following direct orders or cooperating to go in sneaky… that’s completely believable, as well as the irrational decisions. Fei’s the flawed protagonist. He is scared, he blames himself, he doesn’t want to fight and on top of that he has a HUGE mental disorder. Remember that after those events he even agrees on keeping himself locked up because he’s dangerous. He’s insecure as heck! If I stopped for a second and thought like Fei would I could tell you that him doing stupid things like that is only natural, because insecure people tend to make the most irrational decisions in the end (even when they try to do what’s correct). And this is maybe better understood if we compare that situation in Solaris with what other characters might have done. Imagine that instead of Fei, Bart would’ve infiltrated the place and gone to Elly’s house. You know Bart is actually more cold-headed than Fei (even if he’s a bit impulsive at times) and he would totally get into character. Try Citan: same thing. But Fei’s flawed, he’s meant to be and the whole “redeeming” part of him only exists because he is so flawed. That’s my opinion at least. So it’s not that you should like him; it can still bother you, but that’s just what he is, unfortunately for him and for the others at that point. He is very insecure and that shows itself throughout the entire game. And while I would’ve believed it if he pulled everything off smoothly with Elly right there, when I think of it, I really appreciate that they insisted in that he’s flawed, and dumb, and stupid. In my opinion, it’s one way to keep his character consistent (though we could, of course, argue if they did it in the best way). He’s by far one of the best tragic and flawed protagonists out there when you piece him together, and I feel he’s better than Cloud in that sense (*grabs Hylian shield, *runs to cover, *”Come on! Bring it!”). ***In Japan it’s common for people to speak down about themselves. They do this out of fear of appearing as being prideful. So that part of japanese culture probably takes its bite here. Maybe Takahashi was just too influenced by his own culture and directed some scenes in a way that us from the Western world don’t fully understand. Those are the two things I wanted to adress! Everything else you said I’ve found totally reasonable and I agree with it. When I think of it, Takahashi, as a director, hit the soft spot with Xenoblade Chronicles for me. I remember Xenoblade Chronicles X on WiiU being somewhat of a letdown because the game had so many resources but the story was bland; and Xenogears may as well be quite the opposite, the story is one of the coolest ever told but they didn’t have the resources (or the experience back then) to realize it the best way. Yep, Xenoblade Chronicles is the nice virtuous middle ground here. Again, great vid!

[@JCrossJ]

Yeah, I get the same feeling. I feel bad for Honeywood though. This game is huge and it's full of text. Translating everything on your, probably with a deadline, it's just too much. In fact, reading about that, we only had Xenogears thanks to him being up to the task. So I just overlook those hiccups and don't really mind them.

[@ResonantArc]

This is fair, and it's probably true that a lot of what I perceive to be Fei being "dumb" or "naive" is likely just the dialogue itself not being appropriately written to convey the correct meaning. Good points, I'll keep them in consideration as I continue doing research.

[@ResonantArc]

MrRPGcrazy I think we've talked a little bit about this in the past, but there are many, many, MANY examples of sentence structure that does not feel/sound/read correctly as a native English speaker. I haven't responded to the other comment you made on this video yet because I intend on featuring it in the next discussion video, so I'll go more in-depth about this there.

[@JCrossJ]

Well, my intention here was to get you thinking (yeah, even more haha) on why Fei could also be a favorite and superb character innhis own way. His story is tragic, he can't get more psychologically complex and his reactions and ways of thinking throughout the story felt very reasonable and natural to me. I'd like you to consider that his "Uuuhhh...mm...no. I...Ah..." scene could actually contribute to his character very good, even if storywise he's putting everything at risk. I'm excited to see your opinions after research!

[@captainspaulding2206]

Chu Chu is a Japanese thing. They couldn't help themselves.

[@REALmikegordan]

Apparently, Takahashi couldn't help nailing Chu Chu to a cross to be crucified, either.

[@GhibliNova]

If I ever worked for a channel on youtube I would want to work with you guys. The fact that you truly care about the viewers and are open minded enough to ask for input about how to think about the games makes me trust in your final opinions so much more. You guys are great! never change.

[@ResonantArc]

Thanks, Nova Prime! Maybe we can work something out in terms of collaboration!

[@Realag666]

Xenogears is a love letter to anime from the 80's and 90's. Neon Genesis Evangelion or Nadia - The secret of blue water come directly to my mind. The Yggdrasil getting torn apart by ID in the first Disc happens nearly in the same way to Cpt. Nemo's Nautilus in Nadia - The Secret of Blue Water. I agree that the main meat of the story didn't came across very well, because disc 2 was so rushed. The Love Story between Fei and Elly captivated me so much, that I didn't really care about the stuff going on around them. Also Ramsus was supposed to be the last character joining your party after you met and spoke within in the crashed remnants of Shevat. I enjoyed the sheer amount of bossfights thrown at you without random encounters inbetween in disc 2.

[@ResonantArc]

I should probably watch Evangelion. I think it might give some context to what Xenogears was going for.

[@RadicalDreamer17]

Just remember that Evangelion only used religious symbols "because it looked cool" (which makes Evangelion already different from Xenogears... Evangelion really hasn't much to say about religion). However, it's a good study on depression. And I also believe both Evangelion and Xenogears took inspiration from the same book (Childhood's End by Arthur C Clarke... which I guess you should read, if you're interested... Krelian is actually inspired by a major character in this book, Karellen... in fact, it would have been Krelian's name if it had been correctly translated).

[@Forgemno]

Yessir

[@lipstickGeneration]

Hi. Greg (the lead singer) from Lipstick here. Personally, Hammer is my favorite character in Xenogears. I found him to be charming comic-relief in a nostalgia "oh, wasn't the 90's silly" kinda way. I didn't play the game when it first came out but rather played it around 2009 instead, at age 19, so I had a fresh perspective on the game similar to yours. Hammer's arc, of being a minor background character to becoming what he became, I found fascinating because of how unpredictable and ultimately tragic it was. If you loved him as comic relief, seeing his downfall was truly disheartening. Also, I really love the way you are encouraging a discussion. Keep up the good work!

[@ResonantArc]

Okay I can see that. I think I would have felt more for him if they had spent some more time with his character after the party escapes Kislev. If they had shown them telling him to stay behind when they go from place to place, and made him feel like he was only getting in their way, maybe it would have been a little easier to believe what happens with him in Solaris. It almost felt like the character had disappeared completely and then he pops up again and I was like, "Oh yeah, Hammer! What has he been doing this whole time?"

[@lipstickGeneration]

Well, I think that is largely based on player choice. Me, I instantly loved Hammer, so I'd check in on him every chance I got, and he'd always just be hanging around the base while we went on our adventures, and there seemed to be a minute amount of melancholy in his tone as the game progressed. He's always hanging back, not really doing anything, so if you played the game in that way, you'd noticed that Hammer was constantly in the background, and like in real life, some people are quiet about their problems until it bursts onto the surface. It felt consistent with his character for me, but I also totally understand and respect your perspective on things. I haven't read all of the comments, but a really good supplemental material is Xenogears: Perfect Works, which is a textbook (you can find an English pdf online) that helps flesh out a lot of details in the game. I don't know if anyone mentioned it, but you should definitely check it out. It doesn't have much to do with our discussion on Hammer, but it provides a lot of good background information that helps flesh out the story that the developers clearly ran out of time and money to produce as originally conceived.

[@ResonantArc]

Lipstick_Generation Ah, very good point. I never even thought to go looking for him. Thanks for bringing that to my attention!

[@brokkenmask]

It's pretty cool taking another look at the game from the fresh perspective of an adult. I've gone back and replayed Xenogears a couple times as an adult but I've already had preconceived ideas and opinions built up from childhood so this was pretty neat. Love how you're openminded and open for discussion to see other perspectives on things, you're pretty awesome for that. Regarding the thing with Fei repeating things, I believe it's something that doesn't translate well into English. It's not that the words themselves can't be translated but the conversation etiqette within the culture. Basically, one would repeat something to have someone elaborate or continue the conversation on that particular point, for example. It's also a form of affirmation to the speaker that you are paying attention, similar to the "hai...hai...hai hai..." that Japanese people respond with every few words in a conversation. Perhaps in Japan, that point about Fei didn't stick out at all since it's somewhat a natural reactionary response there. This is my guess based on what I'ved learned from Japanese friends and a sociology professor in the past...I could be totally wrong but what do you think? With the point about the length of the game and Rico, I'm wondering if perhaps they would have had more side quests filling up more of the discs. It's possible they just stuck what they were able to make playable into disc 1 without the hypothetical extras. They might have had more planned for Rico as side quests or something. We'll probably never know but I like to imagine... BTW, did you find out about the hidden music video in disc 2? kzbin.info/www/bejne/rp2sZ59mfK2Sba8

[@ResonantArc]

Thank you for bringing this to my attention! I just spoke to Landon and Casen (who speak Japanese) and they said it's called Aizuchi and it's very common. When Landon returned to the States after living in Japan for so long he said he had a bad habit of continuing to do that and a girl he was dating called him out for it. Very interesting!

[@ChocolatierRob]

Hmmm, random general thoughts on Xenogears. On cut content - There are two vocal tracks on the soundtrack 'Small of two pieces' and 'Star of tears', the first is heard over the end titles but the second is only found if you REALLY know where to look. There is an unfinished AMV hidden on disc two, comprised of footage from cut scenes but they cut out before the music finishes and the only way to see them is to insert 3rd party discs in order to access it. I am a fan of 'Creid' the Xenogears arranged album which also contains Japanese versions of both the vocal tracks, I've also ordered that newer one that got mentioned in the comments for the first discussion video. Gear Battles - I've mostly finished replaying the game now but I've never had any problems with accuracy like you seemed to have, I've been perfectly fine without having any magnetic coats or using wild smile. Sometimes the basic attacks would miss (usually using X or square) but I only used them to charge up the deathblow level rather than inflicting damage with them and I can't remember deathblows ever missing. That song you hear too much - That song is called Into the Sky or Soaring the Skies, the name seems to sum up its purpose quite well, it is not attached to Maria, it is about powering up, aiming for the skies, freedom. I would expect to hear that piece when something (supposedly) awesome is happening. You may have subconsciously attached it to the character of Maria but I think it is more that the things it represents were simply happening to her at that time. One thing that really annoyed me in the game was the very poor management for ALL the items/equipment, manually sorting all the items into usable order is a real chore but the equipment does not even get a menu at all except when you are trying to equip it. I would all too often pick something up without having any clue what it is - equipped on gears, people, men only, women only, battle item, what? Makes selling items just as awkward. Chu skipadoo Chu! I can't pretend so easily it doesn't exist, its presence is hardly subtle. It doesn't really intrude too often but when it does AAArrghh. Especially in the end scene just before the titles, I've brought up the vid now and it would be so easy to cut out its presence there and the scene would lose NOTHING else, snip out those few seconds and you wouldn't even see it in the background or hear that godawful stupid noise it makes while it is there being so obnoxiously pink GAAAH! Oh and yes, the puzzles in disc 2 really sucked, no defending them here. Last thing - read through Xenogears A Rope of Robots recap, 40 pages of funny but also very good for pointing out logical leaps that happen throughout. I enjoyed it immensely so thanks to whoever linked it to the first discussion video.

[@Arkangel04]

I totally agree with your comparison between Rico and Freya. I really liked both characters but they were forgotten in the second half of each of their respective games.

[@Forgemno]

I agree. Rico was just the tank you took along. His story was cut tho. If u go to the king of kislev room you can only get in with Rico. Aka his son. So there was some left out

[@RadicalDreamer17]

I adore Xenogears... and I actually have more attachment towards it than Xenoblade. As "well done"/player-friendly as Xenoblade is ( minus the lazy side content and a few other stuff), the fact Takahashi reduced the story and lore so much kind of made me depressed/detached about his new games (I do enjoy playing Xenoblade for the most part though... but it's just not the Xeno I fell in love with). Maybe it's unreasonable of me, but I loved the Xeno games for how crazy packed they were with story/lore, even despite their "game" shortcomings. And I loved their relatable main characters too. Fei and Shion might have frustrated or angered some players, but I felt like them. I related to Fei's "coward' persona (this desire to hide from the pain, hide from the world). I related to Shion's anger and mental illness, the fact she's female and how she makes emotional decisions despite being booksmart (which lots of people didn't understand apparently, calling her a nonsensical dumb character, but she's not... I'm like her and it hurts a bit knowing that she was so hated/trashed by gamers). I didn't feel anything with Shulk. He was a likable jRPG protagonist, as he was designed to be... but he wasn't interesting (and as "awesome" as Elma seems to be, I get the impression she's just a tough chick/power fantasy à la Lightning... which is cool but not relatable either). Talking about characters, I also thought Xenoblade's villains were a letdown compared to the cast of villains from before (minus Egil, he was the most complex... and I always get sad when I play the Mechonis Core part, because Zanza ruined everything). And I'm a bit sad that out of all his games, it's Xenoblade that will probably have remasters when Xenogears needs a remake so much for so many reasons (as you saw, also it never EVER got released in Europe, not even on the PSN) but will probably never get one due to being stucked at Squaresoft and not being as popular as other Square games. It's always the most popular games that get remakes, even if they don't particularly need them... and it's a shame. I don't understand people who want a Chrono Trigger remake for example. What can a remake improve exactly ? This game is already perfect (it's one of my all time favorites, but the only thing I can see coming from it is an anime series... as long as it's good, of course). It's just incredibly difficult to find video games like this. Especially these days, sadly... RPG stories are all shorter, less dense and diluted with open/huge world/MMORPG quests... and cutscenes are also more expensive to make (which also explains why open world games are so wild spread in the first place nowadays... with Xenoblade X in particular, it was Takahashi's first HD game and the cost and experimentation was one reason why this game focused so hard on exploration/hunting/fetching than the first Xenoblade ever did). Like I said though, I'm well aware that Xenogears is indeed a very rough "game", rushed and incomplete due to lack of time/money and probably also because it was Takahashi's first project as a director... and a really personal one, at that. I know it's a hard game to get into for newcomers/modern gamers because of those reasons. Like others said, this game is heavily flawed, but it generally stays with you (i'd even say most hardcore fans of this game became more and more attached to it AFTER their first run... after reading and re-reading Perfect Works again and discussing the plot with fans and engaging in fanmade creations... as Xenogears, due to being incomplete and so dense, is a goldmine for creative people... but lots of people unfortunately moved on... it's sadly rarer and rarer to find fanfics, in depth discussions and good fanarts for it... I feel kind of lucky that I can draw art for myself, especially now) because of the story, characters, lore and music. Talking about the music, I'd disagree with you on the soundtrack being weaker than Chrono Trigger's (then again, music is personal). I think it's generally superior to it... but inferior to Chrono Cross's soundtrack. I think you said somewhere that Chrono Trigger has a shorter soundtrack too so it couldn't be Xenogears' problem. But actually... it IS part of the problem. Chrono Trigger is a short game. Xenogears is not. Here lies the big difference between the two. This is why Xenogears' soundtrack feels like it repeats so much more. One could also argue that Chrono Trigger had better music editing... which helps a LOT. I personally believe it's one of the reasons that make a lot of people believe that Xenoblade's soundtrack is among the greatest in gaming. But I personally believe the soundtrack is average with a few memorable tracks (I actually feel the same about FF7 and FF10's soundtracks). However, it is long (like the game) and the music editing in the game is PERFECT (example here, the music in Makna forest... this isn't something I would listen to outside the game, because it's kind of boring... but in the game, it fits the place and makes exploring more relaxing... Makna is kind of my favorite Xenoblade area). When they say that a great soundtrack can improve a game... well, I also think the reverse is true. A popular/good game can elevate an average soundtrack... and a great/good soundtrack can similarly get forgotten about if the game attached to it is poor/hated and the music editing bad. This was my personal experience with Skyrim (listening to the music on youtube was a completely different experience and I enjoyed the soundtrack a lot more this way). That said, I never had much a problem with the music editing in Xenogears, to be honest. Sure, the Zeboim dungeon doesn't have any music... but I thought it was okay (because the place is creepy/claustrophobic, so the use of silence can be smart). Same with the stalactite cave or mountain path (at the start of the game), it never felt odd to me. Even when I first played the game. If you're going to play the Xenosaga games though... Episode 1 is an example of really awful music editing (when people said Xenoblade X was like this, it immediately reminded me of Xenosaga 1). For example, most dungeons don't have music (which doesn't feel like a possible artistic decision this time). The soundtrack has some great music too (but here again, it is short... and part of it was played by an orchestra... which might have cost a lot of money) and feels underrated due to the game's poor editing and people's "game memories" of the poor editing (sometimes, I feel like Xenoblade X's soundtrack is also probably much better than what some people claimed when they played the game). Very space opera, sometimes creepy, sad (save for one track, it's not a cheerful/warm soundtrack)... and both songs (sang by Joanne Hogg, the singer for Xenogears) are really beautiful. Anyway, this is just my opinion. Keep doing what you do... It's really great !

[@hepwo91222]

I agree Xenogears could use a remake more than any of the more well known Xenoblade games that probably will one day. Actually Xenogears could use a remake probably more than any RPG ever made, flesh out disc 2, full anime cutscenes instead of text box cutscenes, a tutorial to explain the combat better, etc.

[@natalie2070]

You are so right about the difficulty in moving around the environments because of the camera angle. Oh my god. I'm in the underground cavern area and absolutely lost because I can't see more then a few feet in front of the character. It's maddening.

[@jonathandiosa5739]

Natalie hope you make it out. Check every nook and cranny up until and around the save point.

[@Forgemno]

It made it fun. Rest in peace Hammer.....

[@urbanasupernova562]

Thank you for this video, covering one of my favorite video games of all time (was my #1 until Witcher 3 came along). Your opinions were very valid and well thought out, an additional 48 minutes were very necessary to go further in depth on a game of this magnitude and story complexity. I also would like to add, that now that you've experienced it......years from now you will look back fondly on this and it will hit you even more of just how amazing the ambition and scope of this game actually was, especially for 1998. I was 20 years old when this came out, and it certainly left an impact on my mindset (and general interests) in a huge way for the rest of my life. I cannot fathom what they could have done with a vast budget and modern technology in 2016. It would have been nice to at least fit into a trilogy, let alone 6 games! All in all, your thoughtfulness and intelligence in analyzing the game is much appreciated. Nice work!

[@ResonantArc]

"...years from now you will look back fondly on this and it will hit you even more of just how amazing the ambition and scope of this game actually was, especially for 1998." The funny thing is it's only been a few days and that has already started happening, haha! I kinda want to start a second playthrough. The game definitely left an impact on me. Also, yes, this game of all I've ever played deserves a remake!

[@armandostockvideos8386]

I dont care if somebody call it Mismanagement, it was that or living in a world where xenogears doesn't exist. Also, they also kinda made that thing of cut Rico's story in disc2. After all, they visited his city and used thr capital as a mecha. They could have made him talk to his father and his friendship with had more potential. So...They probably cut him after he fulfill his purporse in Nocturne. XD

[@ZeldaMOMOe]

I'm grinning so much at work rn at your excitement over Citan. HE IS BAE!!!!!! AHH!!!! I kept picturing him have Cary Elwes as a voice actor :)

[@MARK111174]

yes, the villains in this and Luca Blight in Suikoden 2 are my kind of villains

[@ASMR4theSoul]

First off I would like to thank DPG for choosing this time and place to decide to open up a discussion about one of my favorite games, Xenogears. It must just be one of those perfect moments of timing in the universe, because typically I never stumble across forums or videos looking for discussion that are still active. I have played this game at least 3 or 4 times and I am currently on my next play through, currently at the dreaded sewer part... I don't suspect I will be done by your next discussion video but if I understood correctly the plan is to make another video bringing up a lot of the ideas you are researching now and then making a final fourth video which is the review itself. I also read everyone's comments on video 2 and on the discussion forum. I would like to take this time to thank all of you for your great comments and links to soooo much great information. I plan on reading all of this. So yea, initially I wrote out this 6 page essay and was still going strong when I realized...yea that is a bit ambitious... HAHAHA! So I am going to start over and be a bit more brief and we can go from there. What I think over all as a piece of work what we should be looking at IS the potential it has. It was mentioned that most great works are unfinished. Why is that? I think it is because we see the potential it has and ignoring that potential is like watching someone die. Really though art is life, it is someone's life and they are trying to teach you something through it. Art is a healing and I am personally interested in storytelling in general. What is storytelling other then passing on information to help us survive. If you are not helping someone else then really, you are wasting your time. That being said the best way to help one another is to understand that we are all human and we are all the same. This piece is extraordinarily human, it doesn't look to say, this is good or this is bad. It says, here look at this, now what do you think? It is that kind of storytelling that engages us. The villains are so great because we get to see that humanity in them. Ramsus is described many times as being an elitist but us as the audience are in on the secret that he is very insecure about himself and his rivalry with Fei. Are most perfectionists not like that? As a bit of a perfectionist myself I can answer, why yes we are. There is certainly a lot that can be taken by the real life story of these games too. This was certainly very over ambitious and so was Xenosaga but from what I understand Xenoblade hit the mark because it was easier to understand and more simplified. At first these big awesome trippy cool intertwining stories that are presented in some weird Star Wars order sound good but ultimately just confuses people. Not that I am complaining but why start at Episode 5? Why not just focus on the story at hand and then worry about origin stories and past lives and so on. Think if he instead started at Episode 1 and how much clearer it would have been to understand everything going on. I love this game but in loving it I must see what it is too. I myself want to become a comic book creator because of this story. If I just go behind him and make some crazy plans for a giant epic well...let's just say I was very impressionable at 16 and I am seeing the error of my ways... YES, I too am very over ambitious. Although I already learned this lesson before I started looking to deconstruct the story of Xenogears for my further study. I must say if I focused myself earlier on a more simplified story I would probable already be super famous. =p Now I am not blaming Xenogears for my problems, that is the 'coward' inside of me doing that. =p Seriously though, we can't excuse the issues here but we can see it for what it could have been and I think that is why so many people like it. No matter how you cut it though it is not good storytelling to have the audience so confused. As is stated a lot of these terms and vocab should have been introduced earlier on in Act one so in Act three we are not being weighed down so much by all this explaining. Believe me I am really just scratching the surface with a lot of these ideas but I am ready to play some more Xenogears right now so I look forward to what people have to say. Thanks for reading this, and by all means ask for clarification and please, please do keep the conversation going. I am eager to hear what everyone thinks and what could have been done or even what can be done to revive this poor soul.

[@JCrossJ]

Joshua Treat Well I agree that this game could benefit hugely from getting the remake treating and a nice budget, like FFVII is having. Someone who would talk with Takahashi and Soraya, know Perfect Works to the last inch and have the ability to rewrite everything and present it better. The problem is that this is but a dream because Square Enix is probably never going to revive Xenogears. So yeah, we're just left to talk and discuss about what we have and what could have been. I love this game myself and it's a shame that it'll probably never be revisited by its company.

[@ASMR4theSoul]

Yea, you are very right. It will never happen. If anything it really does stimulate the mind though and in the end I call that a GREAT success, AT least story wise. That is mostly what I am looking at. Taking this in depth look at this story and finding out all these new resources are now out there that I never knew about before. I am more motivated then ever to craft a great story myself. It is all very exciting!

[@JCrossJ]

That's great to hear! I really really like Xenogears. I haven't beat it as much times but I've read about the story and characters and the lore many times. I just like it haha

[@ASMR4theSoul]

Yea, got a lot of the links you posted here and there. Thanks!!! I have A LOT of reading to do but I am also very excited about it =)

[@DownwardThrust]

Awesome video guys - reminds me of the quality I have on my channel. I'd love to work with you guys at some point.

[@benjamindonahue9434]

Great discussion points. Totally agree with the Rico part, and never actually considered your point about the villans. I'd love to see you follow up with Xenosaga should you have the chance. Personally story, and characters tend to be what really makes or breaks a game for me which is probably why this is still arguably my favorite RPG ever. All 3 Xenosagas though I played through entirely for the story though lol.

[@ResonantArc]

Story is a high priority for me as well, which makes it easy for me to forgive a lot of technical problems with certain games. I'm very intrigued by Xenosaga! We'll see when I have a chance to cover it.

[@serenadesilhout]

I agree the game was much too ambitious for their budget and the time period. However that's part of what has made the game so endearing to fans. Part of what makes a good rpg is how expansive the universe feels and literally any part of the 6 episodes timeline can be used to make a fulfilling game on its own right. Much of the development team from Xenogears left to create their own company, Monolith Soft which went on to develop the Xenosaga and Xenoblade games. While playing the game it's a bit dissatisfying that a lot of story elements are a bit rushed, it has incredible story elements and leaves a lot open to the imagination. With regards to the music, I agree its repetitive but effective. The Celtic undertones are very unique choice for a soundtrack, however they just stuck with me. ID's theme song just adds to the dread and weight of the situation. With regards to Fei being "stupid" - remember that Fei has textbook dissociative identity disorder. Id, the "coward", and "Fei" are perfect representatives of the Id, ego, and superego and Fei's personality is rather impulsive by nature. Having his memories wiped and re-learning the world, he's bound to do things that are rather frustrating. Compared to other games where the hero has amnesia and has to find his own identity cliche, I like the payoff in this game the most. If you're a true fan of Xenogears, definitely check out the guardian angels website that has an insane amount of analysis on just about every story elements and chronology. I could go on but essentially I feel you have the gist of what I got from the game. An incredible story packed with a lot of frustrating elements such as the budget issue in disc 2. It probably had the most potential in a game next to Legend of Dragoon but I feel Legend of Dragoon was capable of condensing its story in a way that made it work for a single game. Xenogears would have been more effective if they split it up into 2 games. guardian.leamonde.net/

[@AnselmoFormolo]

I love seeing this game get more recognition. This game is so amazing, even with all it's flaws!

[@citan108]

Great video! About Citan, I'm glad you like him. He's by far my favorite character of all time xD About Fei, I would mention that the repeating of questions may be a facet of the Japanese language.I know that one way to show attentiveness is by repeating what the person is saying. For instance, "I'm going to the park tomorrow"　明日公園行くの "Oh the park?"　ええ、公園って？ "yeah, to play" うん、遊ぶため。 This might be a failure of the translation to translate directly instead of conveying the writer's real meaning. Again, ask Casen and Landon for clarification as they probably have encountered this grammar. This, of course, does not excuse the situation, but it does provide a possible reason why he keeps repeating unfamiliar words.

[@ResonantArc]

That's a very fair point that I had never considered. I'll ask them about it for sure!

[@LegoStarMovies]

Disk 2 is great though because it gives a greater focus on the narrative and character development, which was nice after going through 60 hours on the first disk, the ending of which was a huge onslaught of battles, plot revelations, and huge dungeons that personally left me exhausted. Having to go through ALL the dungeons of Disk 2 would've been detrimental to the experience in my opinion, and as it is it gives the player all the necessary information for the narrative while at the same time letting the player rest and have just enough gameplay to where it doesn't become just a slide-show. Plus the visuals and set-pieces in that second disk are some of the most memorable I've ever come across in a video game.

[@85arioto]

Man, this is actually a GREAT review. I would never dislike one of your videos. I am a fanboy, I assume. But you bring up good points, and I agree with most of them. Your channel is awesome, man. Keep up the good work. Greetings from Brazil.

[@TheShadowGames07]

For me, I have no problem with massive stories or overly long games. This game usually takes only 50 hours to beat while doing a fair amount of the side content (Idk if I blatantly missed anything when I last played). The second disc can turn people away because it is indeed very dense and as you said, it does fly above the heads of some people first time through. I do wish the game were finished as originally intended because I feel like the dense stuff would have been better dealt with and explained, and would have more 'show dont tell'. I also feel like if the game were extended, the battle system may have been allowed to evolve more because I do feel like it capped out a little too early, and it was a little easy to get overpowered (elly for example with her magic can do a ton of damage where other characters were struggling). Long story short though, I do love the story and the potential it had. The game is always fun to me and I never really get a feeling of boredom, even during the info dumps. Even in its incomplete form, this game is one of my favorites.

[@ResonantArc]

I can agree with that. I've definitely continued thinking about the game a lot after finishing it, and I kind of want to start another file! It definitely leaves an impact.

[@TheShadowGames07]

The good thing about a second play through is that you can come in with a much better understanding of the over arcing plot and you can delve deeper into the story. For example, on your first place through, you would have no idea whats going on in the opening cut scene, but having played the game at least once, you now know what that ship was, what it was carrying, what happened, and who that mystery woman was.

[@shutedan]

37:49 you mean your "WTF Japan!?" moment? xD

[@frozenaorta]

No mention of Billy?

[@jonathandiosa5739]

frozenaorta he mentions his surprising like for Billy in another vid.

[@donicapuyan8006]

i know its useless to even hope for a good remake of the game but a good anime would be nice. especially knowing square (even though they dont have the rights anymore) made a great anime (FMA)

[@jonathandiosa5739]

Doni Capuyan they did it for the first Xenosaga. They can do it for this.

[@Forgemno]

Xenosaga sucked

[@cpncorndogg]

yeah disc 2 ....ive played the game so many times and everytime I get to disc 2 and im like oh shit I was not ready. It always leaves you wanting more

[@amo1704]

I actually wrote out a huge long-winded block of text discussing your last video, but I accidently clicked cancel instead of comment (on a phone) so there goes that T_T Anyway, you pretty much covered everything I was writing about last time in this vid and it's spot on! I always did call this game the greatest "unfinished" game square has made. So much lost potential it's really saddening. Looking forward to the next video.

[@ResonantArc]

Oh man! I hate it when that happens. I agree, this game is definitely unfinished... but of all the unfinished games I've played this is hands down the best one.

[@cyanrazorCel]

The one detail I'd like to say that you haven't already covered is that I agreed at first about how psuedo perpetual infinite energy was self-contradictory. If they had something that had infinite power, that would practically make everyone Gods from any distance of the Zohar. However, I think an element that still applies is the matter of transfer speed/power. Even if the Zohar links to a source of infinite energy, I think it still makes sense that there's always a limit of how strongly linked it is between a realm of infinity to the limited world.

[@DesMondesBlut]

Sadly the same thing happened with Xenosaga... After Bandai cut it down to three games Monolith Soft had to condense the rest of the story into one game. XS3 almost mirrors the pacing (and to some point the way of storytelling - XS1 and XS2 had hours of cutscenes, XS3 told most of the story with 2D character avatars). I think thats why Takahashi abandoned complex storytelling since then.

[@ResonantArc]

Yeah I don't blame him. I think it's just too hard to pull off without a very secure and flexible budget. As an artist it's also very easy to get carried away in your ambition, and learning to scale that back is an important skill.

[@RadicalDreamer17]

At least, Xenosaga 3 was amazing and ended the series on a high note. In fact, it's thanks to this game I got into Xeno in the first place. I really had a blast with it back in the days.

[@mjss1984]

I remember than underwater fight with Bart you showed. I really found that fight unfair if I'm being honest. When I first played Xenogears, I kept dying in that part and couldn't progress. I eventually did, out of sheer luck. There was also that 2 parter fight that starts with Ramsus then you immediately fight Miang without being able to change equipment. Both these fights are the 2 most memorable for the wrong reasons. I kept dying and I felt stupid for not knowing what to do as a kid. I eventually got through them but with a lot of difficulty and a whole lot of luck When I got older, I forgot what I needed to change, but it was easier and I didn't need to die repeatedly in that 2nd and 3rd playthrough. I recall there is a specific accessory a character or two needed to have so you don't take a lot of damage during the fight. I don't recall it as something you could buy but something you could find if I'm not mistaken. I can only vaguely recall it. Xenogears is one of my favorite jRPGs. I personally put it above FF8 but below FF7.

[@dksu]

The soundtrack is amazing, but you really nailed the point about context. I always considered the theme you mention to have been 'Maria's theme' that highlighted her moment of heroism in overcoming her fear in the battle against her father's mangled consciousness. Every other time it was used seemed to detract from that scene and diminish her standing in the game ;/

[@banggugyangu]

The part talking on the romance of Fei and Elly brings me to my reason for hating chick flicks despite enjoying a good romance story in a production. Chick flicks try to cram a romance theme into a 2 hour long production that rarely has enough time to properly develop the characters involved to properly understand their personalities and feelings toward one another. One example of romance done right in a movie is Forrest Gump, where the entire movie is spent developing the characters of Forrest and Jenny. Xenogears spends so much time developing both Fei and Elly. Other characters are very well developed as well, but there's a definite emphasis placed on the two primary characters. Because of this, you clearly understand their feelings for one another before the romance is directly addressed. When it finally gets its true screen time, you're so well prepared and almost anxious for them.

[@Forgemno]

I read all this and I agree. Though I didn't see much of them growing as a couple tho.

[@banggugyangu]

@@Forgemno this is because their growth as a couple happens over several lifetimes. While Fei doesn't unlock his memories until his contact with the Zohar, they're still there, and his feelings shine through regularly throughout the game. It's actually a pretty well thought out aspect of their character development.

[@AngelNotFadeAway]

Well I was gonna start asking bout Billy but some already did.Strange,taking into cosideration Billy brings sort of a new approach to combat with his guns.I would like to say that in terms of combat,while on foot you can do plenty of strategy if you take into consideration party pairing like for example pairing Billy with Rico and having Billy casting speed on Rico which would at least fix one of his biggest shortcomings.Theres also this elemental shields that raise def against one element and lower another and you can aso use it on enemies and follow with elemental deathblow.Or how about puting power crisis on Fei and casting counterforce so he evades all physical and each time counters stronger while u can still focus on using other ether.Putting ether doubler on Billy will make his ether guns hit stronger both on foot or in gear battle.Theres a LOT of strategies in battle,they just different.Apart from all that I think that everythingyou said s 100% true and yet I think you were breaking this game apart looking for its flaws cause everyone already has it as one of the best rpg.Im sure that once all this disscusion and review is over and once you play the game again with the sole purpose of enjoying it you will see it in a different light.All in all I really enjoy your disscusion and looking forward to the review!That plot twist with Fei was the best right!?

[@Forgemno]

Citan was the best

[@JamesBuschell]

regardless of its flaws, Xenogears along with Final Fantasy Tactics remain as my favorite games of all time

[@Forgemno]

Rest in peace Hammer.

[@mr.h5604]

@@Forgemno die hammer... 😂 I really hate that traitorous rat.

[@mgarcia-b9w]

I really want to play this game. It looks so good. Are you guys playing it on the ps3 through the psn store or on the original disk? Also will you guys go into xenosaga? I never played any of these games but I would love to know what you guys think about series to see if I should jump in. I know they are really long games.

[@TheShadowGames07]

I'll keep it short for you, and this isnt fact based but from the pieces of things I have heard over the years. Xenosaga 1 was awesome and I highly recommend it. The studio saw how well it did and pushed for the second game to be released too fast for the size of these games and it took a huge hit in quality. It is not great but I still enjoyed it. Because of this, they almost scrapped the series but they decided to wrap it up with Xenosaga 3 and leave it there. You can see how Xenosaga 3 and Xenogears (episode 5 technically) would have been connected but it is now set in stone that Xenogears is separate from the Xenosaga games. Xenosaga 3 is a good game for sure though, definitely ended on a pretty good note.

[@mgarcia-b9w]

nice. I just wish they were on the ps4 ps2 store. I have a ps2 and other emulators on my computer but I hate sitting in front of the computer. I rather just sit comfortably on my bed or couch and play.

[@jonathandiosa5739]

Marcos Garcia try it on the Ps3

[@kurtkiernan7139]

The water puzzle was like in Die Hard with a Vengeance when they have to do the water puzzle

[@jonathandiosa5739]

My only issue w disc 2 ... was that i couldnt return to certain places in the world that I came to love.

[@Forgemno]

Space

[@Neogears1312]

i know this is far too late but you have to keep in mind that the reason ff 7 was 3 disks long and the others where 4 were the fmv's and models. in all honesty if you get rid of the fmvs you can fit the entirety of ff7 could fit on a single disk. xenogears can get fit that much onto 1 disk because its mainly sprites.

[@Drkorth]

Okay, so everything you said about this game is 100% true. This game is deeply flawed on the technical side of things. But this was a passion project I think, something that the developers put a lot of love into. Sadly you need more than love to make a game perfect. This is my favorite game but I also am incredibly frustrated at it for everything that is wrong with it especially the rushed and confusing second disk. I would love to explain why I love the game so much but I really can't. I was in middle school when I played this game and it really spoke to me for whatever reason. I honestly can't go back into that mind set and explain how the game made me feel. Lastly I would like to ask you two quick questions: What did you think of Billy? You didn't mention him in this video and I thought he was a pretty interesting character, I was curious on your opinion of him. And do you plan to play Xenosaga at any point? The games are kinda sorta connected and have similar themes.

[@ResonantArc]

Yeah, I can't believe I forgot Billy! I liked him a lot actually, which surprised me considering I didn't think I would at first. His personality and strict devotion to the Ethos really put me off at first, but then when he wielded those guns (taught by his father which is also a great character) started to change my mind. With the development he got he totally won me over. Great character for sure!

[@sunthief3583]

I can certainly agree that when games overuse tracks in very unfitting moments it can be really disconnecting. Even if the tracks are absolutely beautiful.

[@brianerohall4569]

When you were talking about the characters you skipped Billy completely, and it was him who really initiated the connection with the Ethos to the player and the characters, as well as really setting up the journey and relation to Solaris and it's current relationship with the Lambs. HUGE part you ignored.

[@warren286]

I also loved that you could eventually become so strong that I was stronger against Gears while not in a Gear myself.

[@bf0189]

I largely agree with you while it's a great game but if it had been edited even a bit it would have easily been so much better and legendary from a pure game perspective. They perhaps also needed an editor for the script. On a different note however...can you think of a game with so many flaws that manages to be genuinely great though? Some of the best works in literature, art, music and film are unfinished and have much of the same flaws for varying reasons including similar reasons to Xenogears. I'm still torn myself on whether Xenogears is 'high art' and one of the greatest games like so many of its fans proclaim. Perhaps it's the fragment nature of the game and the mysteries around it that make it one of the bests if we were to look at the game in a much broader context. It has extremely rough edges but inside the edges you find true passion and ambition which is extremely rare.

[@scottn322]

It really sucks how they were basically forced to crop down disc 2. I feel like what they wanted to do with it was going to be so much more insane, but they were made to rush it. I don't know that it was just money, it was time. They were rushed to finish the ending, but they didn't want to nix or change the story.

[@NameNotAChannel]

The content on Disk 2 was essentially the sequel, if I recall correctly. They didn't believe SE's "promise" to let them make the sequel and wanted to be sure the entire story was told, so they crammed all that into the 2nd disk. I'm glad we got the 2nd disk, because I'm pretty sure they were right (even if it was a success). I just wish they had the rights to the content to actually remake disk 2 as a game.

[@joeskelton586]

a local store has this game for $40. Is it worth that? I'd like to have it some day. Just not sure about the price.

[@joeskelton586]

Thank you. I might check it out on ps3. Not real big on playing long games on a small screen.

[@antonl5777]

l

[@urbanasupernova562]

Yes, it's worth it. It's "flaws" mean very little, considering everything has flaws. Get it.

[@tanakattack5965]

$40??? You mean the actual PSOne game in original packaging? IMO it's worth every penny of that. Although since i'm 6 months late, you've probably bought it and already beat it by now. lmao.

[@BinaryDood]

lol, the water puzzle was actually the easiest one for me

[@jonathandiosa5739]

BinaryDood its easy once you get it but it first took me days to figure out

[@johnnyscifi]

When Citan takes out his sword...so badass!!!

[@yurarepin8554]

Великая игра.Я проходил ее в далеком 1998 году.И она оставила просто ниизгладимое впечатление.До сих пор я не играл в РПГ ,лучше Xenogears.И до сих пор в 2016 году эту игру обсуждают и находят в ней что то новое.Спасибо.

[@samuelrainville6381]

I love it when chuchu does it's silly things!!!

[@haten1]

So much is missing from Rico that I would agree with you. If they had to cut something, it’d have to be Rico’s story, rather than leave it unfinished. For the rest of the story, he really was just ignored, & for the rest of the game, he really is the most un-useable. If that were to happen, I have no idea how they could justfiy keeping him as a playable character, but even if they didn’t do that, it’s already pretty hard to justify using him as he doesn’t add much to fights or dialogue of scenes afterward.

[@Realag666]

Btw, the producer/author of the game loves middle-aged badass characters, because he grows old himself and still wants to be badass :D

[@ResonantArc]

Haha, that's awesome.

[@seriouslymark]

you do very good work sir, keep it up!

[@ResonantArc]

Thanks, Mark! I appreciate it.

[@MARK111174]

I use this game as an example of project management (pluses and minuses)

[@SwordsmanOrion]

Citan is one of my favorite RPG characters of all time. Everything about his character is just great.

[@Forgemno]

He was overpowered. Faster and nearly on par power with fei

[@The_Catman]

Yesterday, I was just watching the podcast on the argument... This guy does not age. He looks exactly the same now as it looked 5 years ago

[@RetroFrito]

When you say the final boss disappointed you, do you mean Deus or Urobolus? I have always thought of Deus as the true final boss of the game, and Urobolus as sort of a bonus little easy fight. Sort of like the last encounter between Sephiroth and Cloud where you kill him in one hit... except Urobolus being just a little tougher than that.

[@warren286]

Along with everything to love about this game, I only wished there was more anime cutscenes and longer, with good dubbing.

[@zeiters2055]

I want a remake of Xenogears more than FFVII lol

[@darkrulerbob]

the second disk was a bit of a disaster. it wasn't the whole fault of the designers but it shows the mismanagement of the team. I think it is still an epic amazing game story. I do agree that the ambition of the game was a bit high. I think that the game would of been better off as a set of novels or a TV show or a movie series

[@ResonantArc]

I really wish Square would pick it back up and try to do something like that with it!

[@tacotaco9440]

I'd say your analysis was pretty spot on. I think one reason I loved Xenogears so much was that it felt like JRPGs were growing up with the more mature themes that were explored in the game. But, alas, no.

[@necrolord1920]

I agreed with what you had to say this time around. If this had been the review, I would have been satisfied. I know the review will be even better though.

[@ResonantArc]

Thanks, Necro! I'll do my best!

[@Forgemno]

My favorite game of all time. Oh Lord. Funny how I beat it on level 50 and everyone was claiming you had to be 70+. I barley won battles and them double battles like in Babel tower...ugh. I got rocked so hard and prayed for attack level infinity!!!

[@washoywa]

it was never a 4 cd project. Personally, I think disc 2 is a great outcome considering what was going on the development. I like playing thru it more than disc 1 which it's too slow.for me, these days.

[@kurtkiernan7139]

I wanted every 4 disc’s to be over 50 hrs love suspense

[@EvaChrono]

You didn't talk about Billy Lee Black :'( What is your opinion on him?

[@ResonantArc]

Yeah, I can't believe I forgot Billy! I liked him a lot actually, which surprised me considering I didn't think I would at first. His personality and strict devotion to the Ethos really put me off at first, but then when he wielded those guns (taught by his father who is also a great character) I started to change my mind. With the development he got he totally won me over. Great character for sure!

[@johnnyscifi]

Damnit...I cringe when you say your disclaimer because it saddens me that you have to implement it for a reason...:p Also, now that you mention it, the funding cut rumour, I'm pretty sure that's what I'd heard as well...

[@iankanderson14]

I played the demo and loved every second of it. I bought the game two years ago but I have not played it.

[@ResonantArc]

Gotta play it! It's pretty awesome!

[@tomw7225]

The idea of mismanagement of disc 1's content is a fair analysis that I hadn't considered. If they had just planned it out better, we may very well have had a significantly better game over all -- regardless of any budget issues that might have cropped up later.

[@ResonantArc]

I'll look into it and see what I can find out definitively!

[@Kain5th]

Hey can you say what cliche you were afraid Citans character was going to do?

[@Unknownost]

Citan was implied very heavily to betray Fei and the party throughout Disc 1 before Solaris. However they didn't do that and instead gave him badass mode with a new sword.

[@MARK111174]

you could read the Perfect works (translated) for more information

[@REALmikegordan]

Wave Existence: "Long ago, a modifier, or a pesudo-perpetual infinite energy engine was created." Gord: "And then the beavers came...and one of the beavers was yelling at the other beaver. The beaver's yelling at the other beaver and he was saying...YOU STUPID BEAVER! YOU STUPID...."

[@AnselmoFormolo]

Xenogears Discussion Part 2?

[@armandostockvideos8386]

11:24 *Laugh in Xenosaga*

[@banggugyangu]

The "Is that your mother?" as well as all the repetition of things said are a cultural thing lost in translation. In the scene with Elly's mother, while directly translated it would come out as "Is that your mother?", the better translation when understanding the context of the line would be "So that's your mother." It's a very Japanese thing in that the context of what is said will dramatically change the way that it should be understood. The repetition of things being said is partly this and partly the immaturity of the false personality being only 5 years old.

[@donglords69]

The reason is, Squaresoft had a hard limit of two year development time for their PSX era games.

[@6lu5ky86]

It's really quite unfortunate that you have to speak to some of us like children. I really like you three and your options on the various titles you cover. This has inspired me to finish playing Xenogears, thanks for that.

[@ResonantArc]

That introduction doesn't apply to the majority of you, just a small subset, but that small subset makes a lot of noise sometimes. Glad you'll be finishing Xenogears! I really think it's worth playing through. I'm actually debating starting a second playthrough right now.

[@MilesMariae]

Great comments on the soundtrack, great quality but the small number of tracks sometimes over-used and out of place.

[@austin_love89]

Would you consider reviewing Xenoblade Chronicles for the Wii? Would love to hear the contrast, or similarities.

[@ResonantArc]

I actually did review it back in 2012. You can watch it here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qIu1eolnrJmnf9k

[@austin_love89]

Well dang. Guess I should have checked before making myself look like a fool. Lol.

[@ResonantArc]

Robert Lawson It's no problem. It's a pretty old video, way back before we really even started focusing on this channel. I'd probably approach the review differently today to be honest.

[@austin_love89]

Dark Pixel Gaming In what way?

[@sommi888]

🧡💛💚💙 Xenogears being extremely and overly ambitious is exactly why we love it

[@mikedropthegreat9134]

The combat system was a giant waste. It had so much potential for diverse strategies but lacked the polish to realize said potential. For example, the combo system could be incredibly deep. You could have a deathblow that gives a damage buff but barely deals damage so you can accumulate combo points, buff yourself then dish out the damage. They could've also gave bosses and enemies states like Miang's. Imagine fighting a boss that had state where they do often do a weak attack that leaves them in defense. Or an an enemy that heals based on an the damage he does to you forcing you to defend and only attack in combos. Or even a boss that can reflect damage to the party forcing you to not use long combos as you could instaKO the party with reflected damage.

[@Locaneo]

The budget for the game was cut to help pay for FF7. That's why disk 2 is the way it is. If I remember right they didn't get this news till they were nearly done with disk 1. Xenogears was actually one of the original story pitches handed in for FF7's story, they said it was too Adult though. I read most of this info and heard it from Auxilliatrixie who did a great let's play of them. The creator wanted to redo the story, sort of, and that became Xenosaga. It's not the same story, btu keeps many themes and ideas from Xenogears. It was supposed to be 6 console games long. That didn't happen though due to planning, marketing, and exchanging of publishers. It ended up being 3 games long instead with 2 mobile/hand-held games that one take place between 2 and 3, and the other's a recap of 1 and 2.

[@ResonantArc]

Do you have any good sources about this game's development history? I'd love to read about all of this.

[@Locaneo]

Most of the info I heard from Auxilliatrixie's let's plays. The Xeno series is her favorite game series and she learned everything she could about them. The rest I read on the Wiki, WIkipedia page, a few forums, and some from Archengeia/Lorerunner I think you know him? Here's a large dump of the history of the game itself I could find: betweenlifeandgames.com/analyses/history-xenogears-xenosaga-part-1-xenogears/

[@Locaneo]

Yeah FF7, have a look at the link I posted and ctrl+f search 'Final Fantasy VII'. I don't think it was a completed draft, but it was one of the ones submitted.

[@brandonsmusicpage1]

no thoughts on Billy?

[@ResonantArc]

Yeah, I can't believe I forgot Billy! I liked him a lot actually, which surprised me considering I didn't think I would at first. His personality and strict devotion to the Ethos really put me off at first, but then when he wielded those guns (taught by his father which is also a great character) started to change my mind. With the development he got he totally won me over. Great character for sure!

[@RothurThePaladin]

What about Billy?