Youtube's Demonetization Blacklist!

Xisuma Says Playlist ► • Xisuma Says
KZbin has changed its policy regarding advertising to children under 13. How does this affect content creators who create videos for that demographic? How will it affect KZbin as a whole?
Taken from the Hermitcraft Livestream 08/09/19
• Hermitcraft Hexa-Bee L...
Edited by Adam Aarts
/ adamaarts
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[@chris1549]

About the advertisment, I'm pretty sure no matter what we do, everyone will still get grammerly adverts.

[@joshuahawkes7218]

or Honey ads, I have both products and still get ads.

[@retroarachnid1693]

@@joshuahawkes7218 I don't get honey ads at all. I always get Grammarly, Netflix, and new Music releases ads. I feel that the Netflix and the Music ads are right on point. I do consume videos of that genre a lot. Not sure why I am getting Grammarly though. ( Is it because I am Indian *Gasp* ?)

[@Pippinn13]

I get annoying mobile phone game ads

[@capnbug]

It’s personalized shit. I keep getting this one amazon ar ad and it annoys the hell out of me

[@chris1549]

@@capnbug this whole comment is a joke...

[@swissxpiplup]

I sometimes get gambling ads, which is bad considering I'm dealing with the pertaining addiction; I know I can filter what adverts I see, but gambling isn't a category, at this time it's good to note that gambling falls under gaming when talking about adverts, which means if I want to stop seeing gambling adverts, I have to disable gaming adverts altogether. Although I can't say for sure, I theorise that most people would disable gambling adverts, and so they've sorted it into gaming so gambling isn't so easily crippled by people who don't mind seeing gaming ads. This is not, however, consumer friendly and does cause issues to those dealing with gambling addictions.

[@gingerrik1422]

this is what i just hate i mean politicans get angry by games having lootboxes but leave gambling games and ads alone because they have a gambling can be addicting and should not be played by kids warning that is the same colour as the background

[@louisgarbour2737]

Try KZbin Vanced if you are on Android. If not, try a pihole. It's like an adblocker for the wifi network

[@Auttieb]

What I would do is switch to Firefox (If you aren't already, Firefox allows ad-blockers and doesn't monitor complete system activity [which does]) and install enhancer for KZbin, Privacy badger, Ghostery, and Adblock Plus. Works wonders!

[@FlameRat_YehLon]

I don't find any method to block certain keyword anymore, which might be that I didn't find hard enough, but when checking my ad id (which shows what I'm tagged by the system to be) there are only options to remove blocked keywords, but can't block certain keyword that the system consider me to be interested in. Also, some ads seems to be "wild cast" that is, they seems to, at least according to youtube's "why I'm seeing this ad", be sent to everyone with no preference on tags, and thus you can't even block it. And Google just don't provide a "block ad from this vendor" option.

[@louisgarbour2737]

@@Auttieb To add to that, use DuckDuckGo. Probably only for profit that gives 2 flips about privacy. Also, if you want to, you can disable ads altogether in the settings

[@sandwich2473]

I think what they've done is likely threw a deep learning AI at the whole "find out whether or not advertisers would be okay with this video" problem, and that AI has decided that specific words trigger controversy that could cause advertisers getting cold feet on a certain video. They don't say that there's a list because they didn't make one. The AI did, but it's a black box. You can't have any idea about how it thinks, you just throw data at it and it gives a result. Honestly, screw the way the internet works just now. Targeted advertising is awful. Data harvesting is awful.

[@heroslippy6666]

KZbin needs money though, they aren't making money.

[@sandwich2473]

@@heroslippy6666 No, they're not making any money. They've only recently started to break even IIRC. I'm not going to pretend to have an idea on how to make the business profitable while keeping the people that made it what it is happy. I won't censor my criticisms of it, either.

[@jonathankolberg2706]

My take on anything in the internet is if it's 'for free' it means that it's most likly making money with your data. Only known non profit owned sites, eg Wikipedia, are an exception to that.

[@knightofcarrion7358]

Yes, so in this, I think the blame should go to the creators, not youtube. KZbin didnt choose to make their users content controversial, the creators did. Between the pro and anti lgbt videos going at each other, the overt sexualization in certain videos, etc. No wonder the machine thinks these words are bad and should be banned.

[@16m49x3]

@@knightofcarrion7358 You can certainly blame KZbin for wanting to make the whole of KZbin Kid friendly.

[@jacob.rausch]

it's crazy that i'm learning more about life from a guy who plays Minecraft than school

[@Frrk]

Maybe the CEO doesn't know what's going on internally. But it's still her job to make sure she gets that information and she is still responsible in the end. I like how you always include questions from the viewers on twitch by the way.

[@knightofcarrion7358]

she likely doesnt know how machine learning works. These ban words come from how users use them, so you can hardly blame youtube, rather the blame should go to the users that use the word derogatorily. She probably thinks the machine just knows the context of the words being used so it could tell is it is used offensively or not. But thats not how it works, the machine makes a list of words, it doesnt analysis the each titles context.

[@delibirda9336]

@@knightofcarrion7358 Wow, it is good we have people who still understands.

[@KalonOrdona2]

"Pretending to be neutral," "Handing the mic to the same people," Over here we call it Fake News, and I know that's a buzzword, but it has a lot of parallels with Google's censorship problems, etc. I think everyone can agree that transparency in news and public forums is vitally important. I'll be sure to check out that Nerd City video, too. Thanks for the referral!

[@ericl9738]

I realize that advertisements are based on your browsing history, but some of the ones I get are still completely ridiculous. Without going into too much detail about my views, I’m really big into politics. So how come I get numerous advertisements from the opposite side of the political spectrum, like “make sure to wish [Political Leader I despise] a happy birthday!” or “click here to donate to [organization I think is ruining my country]” when I watch so many videos on KZbin that support the same things I support? I get that cookies are a thing, but sometimes their system just seems backwards. Another example is, how many times do I have to see the exact same anti-vaping ad and tell KZbin not to show it again because it’s repetitive before it actually goes away? Does KZbin’s algorithm assume just because of my age, I’m incapable of making good decisions? I know that’s not directly related to demonetization, but the advertisement system just really annoys me because their “personalized ads” seem to always show the ads that it knows annoy me the most.

[@charlotteice5704]

So YT shows you ads of the opposite political party but still allows people to get in filter bubbles. What I mean by filter bubbles is when people start seeing videos of side A so they get shown more extreme videos of side A and start to become more extreme and don't have contact to political views outside of their side A filter bubble so they develop a strong disdain for side B and never question their own views. I deem this to be toxic to any political landscape so I think when KZbin can show ads of the opposite side, it should also be able to show videos from the opposite side.

[@stephenhorton]

I think it just works on topics, so politics for your country will likely be the box that has been ticked, and do you're just shown adverts that fall into that category. That may differ in different regions though. Here in Scotland I mostly just see police Scotland ads - constantly warning that if I say the wrong thing online they'll come after me... :-\

[@aquariusbabe8639]

I get ads for cars - I don’t ever look up cars lol I get French ads. I never look at anything French Looked at go daddy once holy hell 3 weeks that was the only ad I got lol

[@FlameRat_YehLon]

It's probably just the ad provider decided that they should use ads to convert the opposite side. KZbin's political issue is probably worse (for potentially shadowbanning the side they don't like), but in regard to only the ads, the first thing to question is really "is that side youtube decide to allow ads really spend money on the right thing".

[@FlameRat_YehLon]

@@charlotteice5704 The only question is, is KZbin trying to get you into one side over the other before they know which side you are supporting. Somebody says that, without doing anything KZbin "defaults" to showing more about the side they are against. And as for becoming extreme, that probably isn't something that youtube alone can solve. They can as well recommend every sides but if you never want to click them you will never know what the other side (or those that are in the middle) are thinking, and in that process, there's the question whether KZbin prefers to showing one side over the other (say, if you support side A you get more video about side B than video about side A when you support side B) which I don't think there have been statistics yet, only rumors.

[@wolfc9078]

Notably, advertisements, at least now, can have some form of correlation to the video that is about to play, as I can say that I often get ads for things like simply piano, but I much more commonly will see those on a music related video than on, say, a Minecraft related one. I would also like to note that this may be a recent change, as I don’t remember seeing this type of correlation between the videos and advertisements until recently.

[@heroslippy6666]

Just as a note, no single person at youtube knows how the entire algorithm works. People may know pieces but none of them know the whole thing.

[@symix.]

Not even that, they know how the algorithm to kill and mutate baby AI:s work. Nothing about how it works. Its black box kinda like human brain.

[@danielbrown8556]

around 6:55-7:00 there's a really unfortunate error in the subtitles, would advise you to fix this to avoid getting in trouble!

[@azzayunot4295]

Yes that is... A mistake by voice regonition that should be fixed.

[@danielbrown8556]

Armand Guillet yeah! I know it’s not his fault dw

[@heroslippy6666]

oh mah gawd youtube, that's probably why videos get demonetized for no reason

[@heroslippy6666]

@@rixterz11 the ai doesn't have a single eardrum

[@cwmd7651]

Oh no that's unfortunate

[@lordelliott42]

A bot doesn't have to make a "list" for it to effectively be using a self-generated list. Think of like this. You go in your pantry and notice you're out of several foods you want, but instead of writing down a list you just keep the list in your head. No one at the grocery knows you're shopping from a list because it's not written out, but there is indeed a list. The kind of AI they're using a big and complicated enough to have a "mental list" like that without software engineers knowing.

[@solaeclipse2513]

I love listening to your opinion - it's a completely different perspective to mine and it's quite thought provoking.

[@neuemage]

hes trying very hard to not sound conservative :P but yeah the progressives are giving us liberals a bad name

[@16m49x3]

@@neuemage He sounds like a guy that was fed some narrative by a progressive and runs with it.

[@RandomCommenter955]

@@16m49x3 neuemage or xsuima?

[@16m49x3]

@@RandomCommenter955 x Doesn't sound like the narrative he's running with is his own.

[@Thatdistantmirage]

When you said that the ads depend on browsing history etc, i finally realised why ever ad in the past few days were Minecraft dungeons, I have learner a lot from these videos

[@awesomesauce_3516]

Xisumavoid, The Butcherer of Names

[@TheFox517]

With a butcherable name

[@God-nv7cp]

@@TheFox517 Shashwammy

[@Datboichannel]

Shishumavoid

[@Tbjbu2]

I love this channel, I always used to watch your streams for these kind of stories/talks. Can't wait for more videos. Good luck!

[@JLDREAMS]

When you realised xisuma is a sensible adult hahaha

[@kutayk.2198]

What makes me sad is that the ads are often inappropriate..

[@tearlach47]

KZbin: "Your video may not be suitable for advertisers" Us: "Your advertisements may not be suitable for my video!"

[@anothrto1045]

Set your age to 6.

[@nebulusx6605]

Ya but then I can't watch sssniperwolf or PewDiePie :(

[@nebulusx6605]

Also my computer got virused so every 30 seconds a porn or ad popup is shown lol... thee compute was 1000 dollars :P life happens lol

[@delibirda9336]

Yup. I used to get Destiny Child ads which is bad since I think that the ads should follow the same standards as the videos.

[@tuxedo_productions]

I disable user-based advert tracking, so the ads I get are completely based on the video I am viewing at the time. For example, if I watch videos with even controversial subjects, such as Hitler, I will receive ads like CuriosityStream World War Two lessons. While I dispute that the ads are entirely based on the user, not the video, for this reason (and I'm should think with user-based tracking on it's a combination of sorts), I do agree companies shouldn't see their ad as an endorsement of the video. At the end of the day, when you watch a video, it's a bot behind the scenes pasting together what it sees as an appropriate and relevant ad to the video, not a conscious decision by any human to associate the two. Companies need to understand that KZbin advertising is far different from that of traditional media, like TV and newspapers. There is no personal decision behind putting an ad on a video, and therefore it should not be viewed as an endorsement of the video.

[@f4tornado450]

I also have it off, but it apparently doesn't work, since it shows me political ads for people running for state house in districts I live very close to.

[@jt8821]

I don't understand why advertisers are so scared. I won't have a negative impression on say coca cola because it was on a video about say the LGBTQ community.

[@sacofrice7581]

This is really cool, often you see that some youtubers are afraid of talking of certain topics and I like your take and view on some controversial subjects This is awesome, keep it up!

[@derpycommander4523]

the music seems appropriate for the things xisuma is doing

[@BenMcManus]

The more I listen to your "off the cuff" opinions, xisuma, the more I find a kindred spirit. Nice to know there's more of us out there.

[@scotty3281]

These talks are the reason I tune into the stream when I can. I do not always get to tune in so this channel is a great way to get informative talks on various topics. Thanks Xisuma.

[@moonlightshadowpony]

i use KZbin premium and something that i cannot find the answer to is if a demonetized video will still gain revenue from my viewership. Because just because some suit at some company sees a video that has a few advertiser unfriendly moments doesn't mean that I'm not paying my monthly bill. And from what i've heard youtube premium simply takes the money you pay, checks out your watch time on KZbin, and then divides your money amidst the creators that you watch based on how much of them you watch. But i dont see anything about demonetized videos and how that effects the equation.

[@mementomori5580]

As you already said, people don't understand that advertisement is targeted towards the person looking, not towards the video. So two groups of people watching the same video can have wildly different ads shown because of they usual online footprint regarding what they watch. The other thing is, that people also don't understand how KZbin sorts videos in regards to demonetization, age-restriction etc. pp. and because of that, they come to the wrong conclusion. There most likely is no list of words or content or something that they can directly access and edit as they want. If that where the case, similar words wouldn't be one time monetized and some times demonetized even when they mean the same and are only different in being singular or plural. Because all they needed to do would feed the information from the video through their engine that compares the list and incorporates the algorithm with which google etc. gives you corrections or suggestions regarding what words you actually wanted (just write something slightly wrong in google and you can see that it will still find the correct thing). What actually happens is that KZbin is using AI Technology on the basis of Machine Learning. A simple example would be if I gave you 10 pictures. 5 of these comes with the information "bad", the other 5 with the information "good". Now I give you another picture (number 11) and I till you, based on the 10 pictures given to you, decide wether the 11th picture is "good" or "bad" and you don't get any more information than that. So now you compares this 11th picture with the 5 pictures in each group and decide if it's more fitting with the "bad" or the "good" group. If, coincidentely, the "bad" group has several depictions of a dog while the "good" group has no depictions of any dog and the 11th picture has a depiction of a dog, it's pretty easy to assume that the 11th picture is also "bad", even if the dog has nothing to do with why the 5 pictures where part of the "bad" group. Now, instead of just 5 pictures, the AI that KZbin uses has 5 million of even more videos for each group and it gets more with every time because it gets new information every day and it somehow has internally created a model, that is not understandable for a human, that allows it to decide based on all the metadata from the video (like titles, extracted words from the audio and also from the visual component) wether or not a video should be demonetized, restricted, completely fine or whatever other modes there exist. And it's extremely hard to make major adjustments to that AI other than to make a completely separate check that bypasses the AI and lets certain videos through. But that is pretty unlikely. That's why the spokesperson said that there "shouldn't be any list", because they themselves have no real idea what exactly is inside of the model that the AI created hat it uses for its decision and that is changed every day because of new data. They simply can't know because what the AI creates is unreadable and not understandable by humans. So the thing that the KZbin staff simply doesn't want to outright admit is that they themselves don't know how what the AI is looking for and what is the criteria for what gets demonetized and what not. I'm not saying that it's impossible for them to bypass the system with some lists, but I'm saying that it's pretty unlikely. Otherwise we would see much more consistency when it comes to words or phrases and the video from nerd city showed that there is actually not that much of a consistency. It's simply coincidental that so many videos that have the words "lesbian" or "lgtbq" or others in their meta data are bad videos that should be demonetized, so that the AI learned that videos with those words should always be demonetized. It's simply hard to "explain" that to the AI because the AI doesn't "think" but only compares data that it has analyzed before with new data. there is no real thought process.

[@depressoespresso5904]

I like listening to these videos while studying

[@topdog5252]

In the Nerd City video and I noticed 911 was on the list of tested words that get you demonetised. You may have to watch out for that one when you make Hermitcraft episode 911.

[@anothrto1045]

Demonitized jokes everywhere

[@thomasjones4893]

Your definitely right about targeted ads. I looked up photoshop once and now thats all I get in ads.

[@utseb1]

Me: watching extreme minecraft content

[@andveeterfeuerstein6265]

Boss: "make sure it's not a list" Programmer: "got it" *makes an array* People: "THERE'S A LIST!" Programmer: "but I didn't make a list I made an array" PR: "there is no list!"

[@drako3659]

As a programmer, I'm offended. The proper term is, "container".

[@anothrto1045]

A matrix

[@saithewriter5219]

Thank you so much for bringing this up and to the fore. I knew this was happening but not to what extent. Definitely checking out Nerd City

[@Leongon]

The advertisers have some tools to chose what kind of videos their ads roll onto, like how the Game of Thrones game rolls with every video that has anything related to Game of Thrones, or WTFast rolls with FPS games. But also, in somewhat obscure menus, the creator has some degree of control of what kind of ads can run on their videos... at least I know of one medium sized creator that found out he could select some options for possible ads, and he mentioned it was pretty hard to find.

[@670839245]

Adverts are based on viewer data AND the video's content. For example, I am always the same me, but when I watch a video game video, I get video game ads more often, and when I watch a music video, I get music-related ads more often.

[@cdarklock]

The title experiment in a nutshell: we made boxes of identical cupcakes and sold them in stores. When the sign said "delicious cupcakes," we sold all the cupcakes. When the sign said "anus cupcakes," we sold no cupcakes. We therefore conclude that the stores physically prevented people from buying cupcakes when we used words on a secret list

[@yogitshankar6348]

I feel like Yt follows the report thing to *guess* which video has to be age-restricted or demonetized That's purely because I have seen a lot of PewDiePie's and Jacksepticeye's content and if you notice carefully Jack can swear freely because his viewers have been loyal over the year and they understand it's all in fun way. But if you consider PewDiePie he has gained a lot of new viewership over the course of time and some of them literally hate him to the core. However I'm not a KZbinr and I have never uploaded even a single video so the point I was making earlier can be completely stupid

[@s1r0lf64]

youtube is like windows, there are too many problems with them but they are the only relevant option right now. (I know Linux is a thing, I used it but there is not as much support with it)

[@farrell1701]

Another good question might be how this (YT's push to satisfy advertisers over content creators) is impacting the "beta" studio. It's clearly been repeatedly delayed in rollout, and now there's portents that anything not ported is going to be dropped, which includes the easier way to go live, playlists, being able to have a full pulse on one's channel on the front page, etc. There's almost a feel that they're catering solely to the "big number" creators (no offense intended) who have more advertising "power" as opposed to retaining/improving/fixing features useful to the smaller folks.

[@brechtkesteloot5970]

About "the list"; Over the last few years certain words and topics have gained certain connotations and controversies. I think that they are trying to avoid every kind of controversy and instead of cheking how those words and topics are used, they simply "ban" them so no one can be offended or upset. As in "you can't get upset about something that isn't there."

[@aquariusbabe8639]

There has to be a list. Pokémon videos got hit. Trainer tips made a video a while back about his account getting closed cuz he posts about CP as in combat Power in Pokémon go. That abbreviation can be mistaken for something unacceptable and his account got closed for it. Thankfully manual reviews and contact with his reps and whatever he got things active again.

[@olithegeek9713]

I searched for a certain type of sunscreen once or twice because I needed that specific type, and now I'm getting sunscreen adverts on almost every video...

[@jamman8277]

I like how KZbin’s auto generated captions doesn’t recognise the word ‘demonitization’

[@RBeesMusings]

Xisuma just sounds like a diplomat who struggles to figure out what to say when someone is firmly on one side lol

[@TommyTonk]

I still have no idea how the ad system works, why do i keep getting them for horror movies? I actively avoid those types of things because creepy stuff and gore make me sick. I don't like watching a minecraft letsplay video and then suddenly a trailer for IT 2.

[@debtlessstar2871]

Terrorizer: turn off ad block!!! Xisuma: skip ads all you want each view us a fraction of a cent. Edit: ok they're not the same I'm just saying terrorizer is annoyed about nothing.

[@Legend13CNS]

"It'd be mad for her to go around saying ... we're trying to support them, and then do the opposite" *Creators would like to know your location*

[@FlySmooth]

No matter what we still all gonna be getting square space ads

[@irmalucia2768]

You know that little text that comes up if you watch the begining of the video before you click in on it?? That text said asuma instead of xisuma

[@JenInMinecraft]

According to KZbin adverts, it apparently thinks I'm: Conservative (True - conservative online university ad that talks about a given topic) Technological (True, I'm a software developer - lots of electronic gadget ads) Working (True - Monday.com, Grammarly, etc.) Socialite (False - Perfumes (implying for going on dates) and makeup ads) Woman (True - see perfumes and makeup) With Kids starting college (False, I don't have kids - Strayer University, Online universities) And Elderly Parents (False, although they're getting there - "A place for mom" ad, medicine and useful things for the elderly) Also Likes video games... (Well, duh! name any game ad) And Sports (True - most major sports ads) And drives an off-road truck in the countryside! (False, I don't drive... - lots of truck ads - some cars, but mostly off-road trucks)

[@symix.]

Why not just check what they think you are/what you are intrested in? www.google.com/settings/u/0/ads

[@symix.]

Just check what they think about you and what data they got instead of thinking what the ads mean.. google/settings/u/0/ads

[@soup2504]

6:58 “headpiece figure” In the auto captions is the n word please fix this x I feel bad for deaf people who will misunderstand

[@DanielJohnson-et2pz]

well this is a bruh moment

[@koi5918]

Oh shi-

[@PixelirPlus]

So I keep getting “Don’t smoke adds”, and I DON’T SMOKE or do anything with it, what do I do about that?

[@partywumpus5267]

It's because anyone could smoke right, not really a way to know, so the advertisers go *advertising on everyone*

[@symix.]

Soo you want the ads to track your microphone and camera too? So they could know if you smoke or not?

[@MaxPicAxe]

@@symix. Yeah that would make life a whole lot easier. Sadly, not all devices have microphones and or camerass

[@symix.]

@@MaxPicAxe yeah like 1% of devices people use for youtube dont have microphone..

[@dagamerplays]

@@symix. even if they use cameras it would only work if they are seen smoking or with a pack of cigarettes plus KZbin would be in big trouble with the law, its users, advertisers and the press.

[@DiamondDoozer]

I feel like KZbin is doing itself to insulate itself In the best way possible. Using the LGBTQ example, if the word queer was allowed on a monetized channel and someone used it in a hurtful way KZbin would be sued six ways to sunday, vice versa making it an automatic demonetization (pending manual review) will also get a lawsuit. So the question then comes down to numbers. Which option poses the least risk to our business model, our advertisers, and our content creators. In this case I feel they are right because doing a manual review of a channel using those words helps ensure that hurtful, trollish things are not said/monetized. But again, it becomes a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation .

[@FlameRat_YehLon]

The thing is, if KZbin is doing it for such reason they should state it 100% clear. Also, KZbin really should take the responsibility to sort it out manually because they do earn money from monetized channels as a cut of the ad fee.

[@16m49x3]

No, youtube is exempt from being sued for content on it's platform. It's a platform. That's why they acting like a publisher is such a problem

[@FlameRat_YehLon]

@@16m49x3 And that probably implies that current US law is flawed in some way. Not what I can affect in the slightest but US citizens should probably try to sort it out somehow. It probably would take some super smart lawyers, though...

[@MaxPicAxe]

Yes, KZbin is a platform, so they are not liable to content. A publisher (such as a newspaper) has the rights to do as they wish with their content (e.g. edit content, not show content that goes against their political views) but also have the responsibility of what content they put up (they are liable for the content, they can get sued). However a platform passes the rights and responsibilities of the content to the users. They can no longer get sued (passing on the responsibilities), but they also cannot take away the rights that have been passed on (such as freedom of speech, e.g. a platform cannot censor based on political views). I'm not entirely sure how it all works, but I think something about the USA "Section 230 of Communications Decency Act" basically says that internet companies are allowed to be platforms when it benefits them and publishers when it benefits them... they have all rights, no responsibilities. I think this was to help internet flourish. This is why many people are complaining about KZbin and social media platforms at the moment, because of their political bias and removal of freedom of speech rights, but then not being liable for published content. P.S. some of my info may be inaccurate, please research yourself if you want more detail, very interesting topic.

[@timmcc6899]

I would certainly agree about the advertising being targeted towards the user, not the content creator, though its still left me scratching my head as to what the focus of the targeting is, whether its targeting that person based one what they do watch, or what they don't ... Take me for example; I don't drive a car, I don't own a car, I have no interest in doing either, and would have next to no online footprint regarding cars ... But I get bombarded with a lot of car commercials ... I'd say a good 25%, if not more of the commercials I see on youtube are car commercials. The only reasonable explanation for that would be because they're doing it because of what they think is best for their advertisers, but pushing a product I don't have ... Whether I want it or not.

[@16m49x3]

KZbin just know you are male and a certain age, and maybe your income. You are in a demographic car companies want to advertise to. You understand?

[@timmcc6899]

@@16m49x3 Oh, I understand that just fine, but if that is the criteria, then their algorithms aren't very accurate ... Its like selling horseback riding to a paraplegiac, just because they're female and the stereotype is that young women dig horses. And if that is the case, then they're kinda wasting a lot of time and effort to create these supposedly complex algorithms, if its making the same decisions a 5 year old could.

[@16m49x3]

@@timmcc6899 It's not stereotypes, its statistics. Imagine you want to advertise your company, but each person you advertise to costs you 1 cent. Maybe only 30% of the total population would have any interest in your product. So if they picked targets for advertisement randomly, only 30% of the money they spend actually has a positive effect. Then you do a market analysis, by collecting statistics on the population, and you find that among men 60% have an interest. If you then target men with your adds, you get twice as much coverage with the same amount of money. Even though 40% of men still don't have an interest in the product. This choice would still be a win for them. And KZbin know the sex of their viewers. This is not the complex algorithm. This is very simple targeting based on like 3 factors. Age, sex and financial situation. The complex algorithm is the one youtube has made to automatically reduce the exposure of unwanted content. To avoid someone uploading something that goes against their policies without them noticing. These are two different concepts. Xisuma just mixes them together because he doesn't know what he's talking about

[@timmcc6899]

​@@16m49x3 Yet your long-winded response doesn't change the outcome in my case, whether you want to call it stereotypes or statistics. My age and gender should be about as relevant as my financial situation according to your idea, that my financial situation, or even my capacity to drive a car, don't meet those requirements, it should how much of a flawed system your idea is. As my point was originally, I'm not a part of their target audience, just because I'm middle-aged and male. Its about as reasonable as making you a target for Gilette razors, because you call yourself Haiiry.

[@16m49x3]

@@timmcc6899 Jesus man. Do you really want google to know if you have a drivers license, How often you shave and your preference for mobile games? I don't even want google to know my age and sex, let alone income. These companies have no business knowing anything about me at all. But they do. And they use this information to target demographics. And if you are a middle aged male you are indeed in the target audience for car commercials. Car companies target middle ages males because they are more likely to buy cars. It doesn't have anything to do about you as an individual. It has to do about them getting more out of their advertisement dollars.

[@baronbob962]

New Zealand is on that list... its a problem I know why its there the Christchurch incident but bloody hell.

[@rendomstranger8698]

i'm almost certain that "we don't have a list" is nothing more than legal speak for "we didn't create a list and are just going to pretend that the list our algorithm created doesn't exist".

[@symix.]

Yeah it doesnt, its massive neural network and you cant edit the data to remove certain words as its complex network of neurons with absurd amount of data thats unreadable, its not a list on some banlist.txt file.

[@yumdrumwatches6400]

On the topic of ads, I've been attempting to mess with the system for a little while, and its funny, 'cause now I can make it so I just get ads for soap, car parts, household appliances, etc. lol

[@jjkthebest]

I definitely think it's an algorithm that created such a list or at least behaves exactly in a way that you'd expect someone with a list to behave. KZbin itself doesn't know whether or not their algorithm has made such a list. So they just say "we don't have a list" because it's technically true and sounds better than "we have this algorithm but we don't know exactly how it works internally".

[@AndrewTheFrank]

When I hear algorithm I think black box AI.

[@SuperGamerCody2224]

Yeah, your thing about ads being based on what you look at online. That's kinda wrong. I get all kinds of "Don't smoke and "don't vape" ads and I never even look at anything related to that (unless it's news about it) and I also get ads for inappropriate stuff. And ads for horror movies (I hate horror movies)... So yeah, I think the whole thing about ads being based on what you search is kinda wrong. And in regards to the thing about the blacklist and the LIGHT related stuff being on that blacklist. It's so rediculous how unaccepting, hateful, and just downright discrimating that people are these days. I mean, come on. It's 2020, not the hecking 1800s, people need to get over themselves and start being more accepting. An example is: I'd be friends with literally anyone as long as they don't treat people like crap... It's kinda stupid how things work now.. I wish all this foolish discrimination would end.

[@NYsummertimeCHI]

They don’t necessarily know internally how their algorithm operates because it’s ai. Their algorithm just creates an algorithm generating machine, but it would take a monumental effort to work out what the algorithms it generates are actually doing. Kind of similar to the problem of determining the inner working of the brain of a small creature like an insect or something.

[@tusharhegde8106]

Theres no ads on this video. Interesting.

[@justinblair4239]

Then why the hell did I constantly get people running for president as an ad when I never looked anything to do with it at all popping up for over a month

[@AnimilesYT]

I don't think KZbin can be transparent about the blacklisted words. I expect them to use a neural network which has accidentally learned some words and uses those to demonetize. Not even the creators of a neural network know exactly what it is doing, so KZbin might simply not know these things and therefore can't be transparent about it.

[@BlackDragonWitheHawk]

I think that in case of people like logan paul there should be a complete removal and boykott... on other things, yes the add does not correlate with the content and is just a necessary annoyance that helps to keep youtube free of charge

[@glorvalmacglorvas6082]

Apparently then there are no ads that are relevant to me because they're still all for like special bottled water, new phones, etc. I dont want any of that...

[@zetsumeinaito]

I dunno man, I get car adds and I told youtube via options that I don't care, or want a car. I really wish youtube had a page for advertisers that allows them to block particular tags. Thus putting the responsibility on the advertisers to filter who they advertise to.

[@sharpfang]

Unfortunately, 90% of people who buy basing on advertisement are idiots. And idiots tend to not have a clue about how ads work (incl targetting and the 'endorsement' issue.) And also not get any clue about finer points of a video and get offended by simple words regardless of context. So by having your ad attached to a wrong video you're losing 90% of your purchases through that ad. Smart people who get it wouldn't buy anyway. Idiots are deterred.

[@TheSkogemann]

KZbin is taking way too much fire from all this demonetization rattle. It is solely the advertisers that decides what content types they want their ads on. So when KZbin say that they don't have a "blacklist", it is true - the advertisers might though! Please keep in mind that KZbin would not be without advertisers, so they have to adapt to their needs, in good and in bad.

[@janmichaellechido9059]

KZbin is KZbin.

[@awesomesauce_3516]

Blood is blood

[@RapperLucassa]

1 is 0

[@KipColeman]

Is that like "boys will be boys?" Cuz... No.

[@big_emerald]

The advertisers definitely know what targetted advertising is; you have to pay more for targetted ads than you do for blanket ads. I'm not in the marketing industry so i'm definitely not an expert, but my hunch is that because the average user doesn't know what a targetted ad is, the user can get a bad perception of the brand if they are advertising on bad content. And even if the user knows what a targetted ad is, just the disgust from watching something like white nationalist content will leave a bad brand impact on you if you see a company right before it, because our emotions are powerful and weird things that often supersede our conscious minds (especially disgust). So these companies will solve this dilemma by having youtube make it impossible for any ads to appear there (which makes sense; if the advertisers didn't know about targetted ads they'd just ask for their ads not to show there). It's all about appearances and doing your best to maintain a distance between your brand reputation and bad content.

[@MonkeyworkPlays]

If you think about the order of events at a macro level it's kind of a silly tale (and I state this as a left leaning individual): 1. A subset of left leaning social political folks see something on youtube they don't like (a random idiot like say the Pauls, or insert some right wing extremist). They try and get youtube to take action on them and don't like the answer youtube gives (youtube trying to keep their hands out of directly moderating vids because it's a massive job) so they go to to the advertisers. 2. Advertisers who previously didn't care where their ads were run (you're wrong X on advertisers not knowing that the content is targeted, they understand fully) but now have to save face to avoid the online pitchforks demand that youtube change things. 3. KZbin is forced to now try and moderate the content and in doing so is encountering the very problem they explained previously made the job near impossible to do correctly. 4. Now the censorship / moderation that the left leaning folks wanted to use as a weapon against people they dislike is now splashing back and also hitting the people they do like and they call foul.

[@zachariahm.kemper7406]

Advertisement will also pop up based on the video you are watching

[@boooksareamazing]

I’ve heard of nerdcity before. I remember nerdcity made a video about the adapocalypse at some point a while ago that was something about different types of numbers in the code that decided on demonization.

[@JacobTheCroc]

Does it mean that youtube doesn't understand it's own advertising system as well or mrs. CEO is straight up telling even more lies? Because that is just weird.

[@neociber24]

Supposedly most of the KZbin system is run by an AI (neural network) what could makes total sense because we can't really expect real people reviewing the big flow of videos that are being uploaded in KZbin. After all the problems of hate, racist, etc... in the platform the system is just being more aggresive marking a lot of videos as innapropiate; I don't see this just as a KZbin problem they have a huge social burden that need to deal with

[@linuszarrouk2004]

i apparently have a browsing behavior of someone who is interested in buying construction site heavy machinery

[@VestedUTuber]

Seeing how Google is so obsessed with deep learning algorithms but isn't exactly obsessed with properly maintaining their software, I would not be surprised if their statement that there's no blacklist is truthful as far as they know. It's possible that the apparent blacklist wasn't hard-coded, but rather developed by the algorithm itself over time. It wouldn't be the only instance of this. A while back, robot combat videos were getting pulled as the algorithm in charge of content monitoring had mistaken the robots for animals on the grounds that they were small, quick-moving objects that would occasionally have animal-themed names. This incident actually made it to some pretty big journalism sites and even a few local news channels.

[@abufarsakh9919]

I get lots of car and gaming ads

[@jackazz2421]

Been getting gun related ads and cheerleading ads, i don't have anything to do with either, never looked/searched either of those topics

[@maymay5600]

hmm

[@Lycan_phoenix]

While you are correct in that an advert doesn't necessarily mean an endorsement for that content, as you pointed out, that is not how it is perceived. Public perception is such a big thing for all companies, and they are all scared of negative perception, as they equal it to a reduction to their sales. I have seen companies bend the law (borderline breaking) to avoid customers 'making a scene' and thereby generating a negative perception of that company. When it comes to the image of a company, facts ≠ perception by consumers, and those companies that find their adverts next to questionable content are well aware of this. This does not change their response to finding their adverts in these places however

[@borisvbrknex]

KZbin is so broken rn

[@FullySmthElse]

RIP KZbin’s confedince

[@ZombieATAT]

Hi, I've been youtube veiwer for approximately a decade. I think you're partly correct but it's reactionary based on present alterations. Since google took over they have stripped almost everything of merit from this service in an attempt to create "google tv". Amongst the patronising excessive censorship and selling out to advertisers for a few $$$ more, there's the channel growth demographics. Not maintaining consistent growth is still the underlying issue I reckon and I think it's based on each channels entire history not instanced.

[@nebulusx6605]

Xisuma... I like how you conveyed this idea without making it political or offending anyone on either side. Nice job :)

[@MrJohnweez]

And if you fix KZbin for one community all communities will have a chance to regain monetization!.

[@manfredpseudowengorz]

11:00 - just watchin' it 'till the last bits. Also - this comment is solely to bump up the stats because support Shashwameevoid.

[@a.man38]

*the LGBTQ community has come out*

[@draco894]

People don't understand, still, what their cookies are.

[@vanadium6021]

Veritasiam has a good video on the youtube algorithm about why his video went viral. His source is mrbeast. The two metrics are watch time and... something I forgot the name of- how likely it is for someone to click on your video if its recommended. Thats why you get youtubers clickbaiting and sayinf "watch to the end!".

[@a1vin525]

When Google say they don't have a list, I believe them.* By inputting a video and its meta-data (title, description, sub-titles, user feedback (rating, comments, reports), and uploaders history), they could train an AI to identify commonalities in the videos that might be unpalatable for advertisers. If a word or phrase got a disproportionate high amount of use in flagged content, the algorithm will start associating them with bad connotations, and no person would have to enter those words into a list. I would not be surprised if the words demonetized and algorithm them selves would get a bad association given their frequent use in videos at risk of being flagged The issue is that the AI might have become too sensitive to certain words or phrases, and not educated enough to take the context into the calculation. The experiments showed that it is definitely not a blacklist where a simple mention of a word will block you, given that the subsequent word might nullify the connotations of the previous word. One example was the use of Gay Lord, where the first word on its own would trigger the algorithm, but with Lord added afterwords it didn't trigger. There is no doubt that the algorithm is falsely flagging a lot of videos in its current state, but with improvements and a lot of training, it could possibly become better than human moderators, understanding the context, and identifying creative means of bypassing its detection of malicious content. *) Google might not have any "list" of words or phrases, but the internal memory structure of the algorithm will have an associated "trigger level" to any input, effectively making a list somewhere in its network.

[@jcota2003]

There are many videos from US conservatives, and pro-gun groups that can also show that a blacklist does exist also.

[@jcota2003]

@@arealpacc Look no further than the BS that taufledermaus goes through with their videos

[@kingwolf468]

so how would one KZbinr allow another to use their content, when neither have their own copywright, just KZbin's copywrite

[@hazelrichardson-amos1295]

the question about watch time actually got me thinking, i watch a few of the youtubers on the hermitcraft server and cause of this i watch the videos at 2x playback speed, does this effect the watch time in any way? say i watch a 20 minute video and 2x speed, does it count as 20 minutes of watchtime (cause i watch the full video) or only 10 minutes of watch time (cause it only took me 10 minutes to watch the video? also, this is about my 5th episode of xisuma talking about important stuff in the last hour, and i've learnt more in that time than i did in my full day of school, thank you xisuma

[@stephenhorton]

The way I look at it is you have a company which has been told it has to act to remove/reduce/defund content which is discriminatory, especially toward the LGBT community - they can't afford to hire enough people to watch every uploaded video, so are trying a tech solution. When they first started this they went for an approach that erred on the side of caution, but people weren't happy with it so they've had to make it stricter and stricter. The issue is machines are TERRIBLE at working out context when it comes to language. They've likely fed it a bunch of videos that have previously been banned as it's test data, and it sees LGBT as a subject as a similarity between lots of those test data and so it is coming out with loads of false positives with that in common, as it can't tell between pro-LGBT/anti-LGBT/personal attacks made to LGBT people, and pretty much every video that is demonitised is flagged for manual review, but they also don't have the workers to do those either - at least to an effective level, so manual reviewers are pushed to review the max videos in the shortest time, and they make loads of mistakes - possibly not even watching the video and making a similar mistake to the algorithm based on key words appearing in a video title. On the algorithm - it likely uses stuff like hidden Markov models and other machine learning techniques - so people can't even look at the rules it has written for itself (or if they look they're practically meaningless to humans as it won't have the words themselves written out). The problem is when you ask a company to censor content en masse you'll likely see more than just the content you want censored - and will likely see the opposite of the censorship you desire. That's why it's better for them to err on the side of caution - only really targeting obvious criminal behaviour like terrorism or CP and the like, and leave the rest up to the courts to tell them what to remove.

[@stephenhorton]

Oh, and on the beeb - the first example that came to mind was Farage, but I don't view that the same way as other people who bring it up. It's much better for a cause to have multiple people argue their side, as different people argue in different ways, and those ways are effective on different people. Having few people argue a given side of an argument on TV (like how the beeb always have Farage on for the pro-leave argument) to me is a sign of bias by the company, as it shows they likely don't know or understand that side of the argument - only the cliche people on that side. Also I'm pro-leave but Farage is so bad he makes me wish I were pro-EU sometimes - only having him on gives us on this side of the argument a bad reputation...

[@Fredo22]

Rip Mumbo

[@TormentedGaming]

On another music channel I ran for a while had a 2 videos go down no reason at all and I cant find them

[@ElectricGeckos]

I think it's so stupid how companies and people think whenever there is an ad on any video it is an endorsement saying we support this channel. It's just not the case. I love technology, and I watch tech channels, so I get a lot of tech ads. So if I go watch a video and somehow it is not advertising friendly and get a tech ad. I know it's not the tech companies supporting that content.

[@liamharkin9157]

99.9% of the KZbin ads I get are for gambling/ betting. I’ve never searched or engaged in anything to do with gambling or betting so I’m not sure why I get them.

[@PaulMab9]

KZbin isn’t screwed! Not yet. The bad news is that KZbin is falling apart. The good news, however is that it is falling apart very very slowly! So fixing the problem, or stopping it’s progression, is possible! But I genuinely think KZbin, as a whole, doesn’t know that they need to. Or “what” they need to fix. KZbin needs to have a healthy and stable relationship with its content producers. It doesn’t currently have that. They will have to pander to the advertiser to some extent. That’s where their money comes in from. But the content creators, or as I would prefer “content producers”, are the ones making the product that KZbin is selling! I believe the longevity of KZbin will have to rely on striking a balance between their relationship with advertisers and creators.

[@rcoder01]

The thing with machine learning algorithms (which is what KZbin uses) is that they are fed info and give out an answer. The people running the algorithm (KZbin in this case) can regulate what information they feed in and what they want out, and to a much smaller degree, how it is done (ie. blacklist, sentence context, blacklisted topics) but they can’t do much more than that. They train the bot with information, basically in KZbin’s case it would be video transcript, video (to detect for violence and stuff) and then the algorithm would guess whether it should be monetized or demonetized. The algorithm trainers would then reveal the ‘correct’ answer and the algorithm would adjust its code to make more accurate guesses. This gets repeated a very large amount of times so the algorithm gets really good at doing what KZbin wants it to. I get what you’re saying that KZbin needs to be more public but there is a limit as to how far even they know. The algorithm physically can’t be read into to see ‘how it works.’ Tom Scott did a video on the KZbin algorithm but it was the KZbin video promotion algorithm, not demonetization algorithm, but it still has some really good into pertaining to algorithms and machine learning.

[@KipColeman]

If what you're saying is true, then that indicates that when the algorithm is being discriminatory against LGBTQ people, that it's doing what the KZbin execs want it to do. That is grounds for a lawsuit.

[@emoharalampiev1590]

I'm curious how does watch speed affect algorithms. I mean I often watch YT on x2 (sometimes faster) so like I watch the entire video, but I give half the watch time.

[@catdisc5304]

There is NO list. It's machine learning. The bot has learned itself and now it has created a "list" for itself. But no human has any influence on it. We're far further into the whole Terminator skynet shit than you might think.

[@idkwutnametouse]

Hasn't this already been talked about Edit: ye i heard u mention nerd city in the beginning and i saw their video but im still seeing yours

[@akarint1]

After I research about bully and help. I got conversion therapy Ads. It's show how Google think.