XP Deus II - Secret Iron Unmasking Technique REVEALED! | Impedance Plane Analysis |

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Watch his video referenced here:
• XP Deus II Separation ...
Secret XP Deus II unmasking technique revealed, plus some stuff about the impedance plane + a lot of rambling. I made this video quickly so it is rather rough around the edges.
Also includes some comparisons between the Minelab Manticore, with some brief explanation of the math and physics behind the impedance plane.
#metaldetecting #metaldetector #minelab #xpdeus #xpdeusii #equinox #equinox800

[@IffySignals]

Great info Loren! Thx for taking the time to make/post it. 👍👍

[@LorenLemcke]

My pleasure, it was a bit rushed, so I rambled a bit, but hopefully I managed to communicate something useful :) I very much enjoy your content, don't let my nitpicks discourage or dissuade you.

[@IffySignals]

@@LorenLemcke the rambling was fine. Helped me grasp it. Always appreciate your info.

[@lchunt4593]

Thanks Loren for the technical yet easily digestable explanations. I love it whn I learn something. Very helpful !

[@LorenLemcke]

Glad you got something out of it :) Thanks for watching!

[@HistoryRevisiteduk]

Love this sort of stuff. Thanks for sharing

[@LorenLemcke]

My pleasure! Now I wish I could go outside and do some real detecting... darn winter needs to end :D

[@Eizoshashin]

The engineering aspects of our high end metal detectors is very interesting to us engineers out here. Keep all the math and engineering focus in your videos; I love it.

[@LorenLemcke]

Thank you! glad to hear people are enjoying my approach :)

[@J_digs_]

man!!!! that was awesome to watch so interesting. thank you

[@LorenLemcke]

Glad you found it interesting! Thanks for watching :)

[@DCDetector]

A lot of good information. Thanks, Loren. Great video.

[@dmarsden1324]

Great insight. Thank you.

[@LorenLemcke]

Np, thanks for watching :)

[@MentalMetal]

Very nicely done. I'm not a math dude but I could follow this. Thank you I'll be sharing this with Patreon members as well. Thanks again for keeping it real. Subbed too.

[@LorenLemcke]

Thank you! Glad to hear you got something out of the video. I enjoy your videos too :)

[@Gary_Daytona]

Great information Loren, always look forward to your unbiased scientific approach to detector testing. Thanks for sharing this very useful information.

[@LorenLemcke]

Thanks for watching! :)

[@MetalDetectingNWGA]

Very well done video and explanation.

[@LorenLemcke]

Thanks :)

[@Toolgardener]

Wow. Sweet post full of info

[@shank2213]

Fascinating !

[@micha4923]

Thank you !

[@LorenLemcke]

Thanks for watching!

[@jasongwin8257]

Great stuff.

[@LorenLemcke]

Thanks :)

[@MsMollified]

I’m looking forward to your comments on the latest Deus2 update! Any idea when you’ll be posting about it?

[@williampaxton871]

Your impedance plane analysis reminds me a lot of the Minelab Explorer and the cursor display.

[@LorenLemcke]

Admittedly there is a huge gap in my experience in regards to older machines, and I can't say I have ever swung the Explorer.

[@TexasTimelapse]

I really enjoyed this video. 🍻

[@LorenLemcke]

Thanks! :)

[@kylefreemason]

Hi Loren. I am running 1.10 on my d2 using a modified Fast program. I am mainly a relic/coin shooter at old home sites. My sites are typically iron laden with very little modern trash if any. No matter what I do, round headed rusty nails ring in as an 85. Sounds great too. Any suggestions to stop this?

[@ohiofredl]

Thanks

[@LorenLemcke]

Thanks for watching! :)

[@UkuleleBobbyKemp]

Great explanation here thanks Loren - Quick question please: One increasing issue with the Deus 2 is the 'falsing' to show high conductor IDs on mis-shaped iron, (particularly the 'halo effect'). Q is: Would 'ramping up' the Descrimination (to reveal true target ID), still work in these cases? (I can do a test of course - but interested to know your take on this?) Thanks in advance, Bobby (UK). 🙏🏻 Ps. I shud say I'm using V1.1 firmware, which possibly has different settings/schemes for the 'Fast' program?...

[@LorenLemcke]

Thanks for watching Bobby! You will find that using this technique on an iron false will show massive inconsistency. On a masked target the line in discrimination will be fairly clear, where as on an iron false, the high IDs are going to be a bit more random, so it will be hard to find that line. That difficulty in finding the line should be taken as clear indication you are on an iron false.

[@UkuleleBobbyKemp]

@@LorenLemcke Hey, thanks 🙏for the quick reply Loren... Yes, what you say makes a lot of sense - and it sounds like, (for me), still a good idea to reference a 'confusing target' in this way you've set out here. So, as you're saying, if I check, and the 'cut-off' frequency for the high conductor is erratic and difficult to pin-down, then it's likely a falsing scenario? (I think I've got that right?... 😅). But yes, fascinating stuff, and a really powerful extra tool to keep in the locker! Many thanks, Bobby 🐈‍⬛

[@cs-electronic]

Deus2: go for tones! Instead of numbers, I look at the xy screen. By doing so iron and overloaded iron signals can be determined.

[@LorenLemcke]

I was very excited for the xy-screen, but I find it problematic because it takes too many button presses to adjust the zoom. I do think tones are key on the D2.

[@MsMollified]

I agree about adjusting the zoom. It would be handy to have a selectable option to automatically normalize the XY trace.

[@jefflutz-ni6ct]

Very enjoyable vid Loren! What is the id of the coin on the Manticore without the Iron present? I have experienced a downward drag on target ID with Minelabs because of Iron/ minerals and as the target nears maximum detectable depth. Nothing comparable to the deus though.

[@LorenLemcke]

Thanks! I would have to check, but I believe it was right around a 50, so in this particular instance I believe the TID was actually being up-averaged on the Manticore. It would seem to me that they are doing some other stuff beyond just the basics to arrive at their TIDs and perform discrimination, and it probably has something to do with the 2D screen (I don't have enough experience on the Manticore as of yet to say anything definitive). On the Equinox 800 I too have encountered TID being dragged down, especially at depth in mineralized soils.

[@jefflutz-ni6ct]

@@LorenLemcke With 4 months in on the Manticore I honestly cant say I have seen a drag up or down on tid, at least not like the Equinox/deus. Still getting fooled by a few square nails with great tid and audio, although a smaller percentage as time goes on. Thanks

[@ibme4251]

Ever tried the stomp? Stomp on the target to disrupt the halo. Never tried it till just recently. Does seen to work in some cases. The false single disappears are changes.

[@LorenLemcke]

I have heard of this too, and I have tried it a few times, but not enough to get a proper sense of it. It might be that the soil here is often dense clay so its harder to stomp it in a meaningful way that disrupts the halo. Probably worth exploring a bit more for sure :)

[@lukemilller]

@@LorenLemcke i wonder if sticking your shovel in the ground straight over the target about 5 or 6 inches deep would disturb the matrix and change the outcome of the signal

[@captnse]

Interesting and highly detailed video, Loren! I’m not sure how many hobbyists will fully grasp the science/physics involved in ferrous/non-ferrous target response by a metal detector, but someone’s gotta put the content out there and show it in a video. 😁 Appreciate your ramblings/efforts! 👍🏼 I know you stated you don’t consider yourself an expert in this, but to many who watch your videos, you are much closer to “expert” than “beginner”. I could not design my own metal detector, but I’ve been using detectors for 40 years. I was a software design/test engineer for a couple decades for a few aerospace companies. I love metal detecting and I invest a great deal of my time to the hobby over the decades, hunting out in the field, reading lots of literature, participating in discussions on more than a few detecting forums, and watching countless detecting videos (the bad and the good 😅). I have a couple questions/personal thoughts after watching your vid I’d like to bounce off you. The main premise for this question evolved from my “software test” background and seeing how the XPD2 is currently averaging a non-ferrous target with a collocated ferrous target……would you be very surprised/shocked if the next upcoming software release of the XPD2 were to incorporate a change to the colocated target averaging algorithm or even more simply, a more “truer” ID display value that correlates better to active internal software settings? The reason I say this is, to me, there needs to be congruency between the target ID display of a conductive object with the active internal parameters of a machine. It was immediately apparent to me when you modified(increased) the internal discrimination value on your machine that congruence was not met between that setting and the target ID display. You could conclude for the discrimination setting you increased to, your silver coin should have ID’d in the high 70’s next to your nail instead of the value of 8. For instance, if you were hunting in Full Tones, what audible tone should the D2 output for a 7 or 8 target ID display? It could sound like iron or it could sound like a non-ferrous target depending on your internal software settings for the active profile you’re using. There needs to be congruence between the display output, the audio, and the sw settings……….love to hear your thoughts on this……sorry for my ramblings off the top of my head…it was a bit wordy. 2nd (last) question for you……Do you have any idea how Minelab maps/correlates Ferrous targets on the display of the Manticore? I know in multi-IQ+ operation, iron ID’s can be anywhere across the entire spectrum of the 2D display (0-99). This is quite a bit different from the mapping of iron on the Equinox/Deus 2 machines. Thanks again! 👍🏼

[@LorenLemcke]

Thank you! I have been a dev / video game developer for some years now :) I do think XP could improve upon this issue, but it would come at the cost of reducing the positives of the current TID scheme. Its possible they could implement this change only for the 'Fast' program, so that other modes keep the benefits. Full tones sometimes give a small high pitch bleep correctly, but there are also situations in which the 'true TID' is totally dragged down because the objects are just too close to obtain an accurate TID. I would also think that XP could add a setting that adjusts the displayed refresh rate of the TID, so that when in heavy iron, one could intentionally select a refresh rate that proves more advantageous for their conditions. As far as the Manticore goes, I do get the sense that they are using a unique discrimination scheme in general, which is communicated through the 2D screen, but I am too new with the detector to say for sure or in what capacity. I am very excited to get some more experience with the machine when the ground here unfreezes. I suspect it could have some great benefits for hunting in iron and for iron. For example here, there are swords, axe heads and spear tips to be found, all of which are flat iron objects, whos magnetic response can change greatly over a sweep (I suspect that the 2D graph is using this change in magnetic response to designate its position either above or below the centerline).

[@deanmchristman4857]

You just saved my summer because I was about to spend it pushing buttons on my Nox 600 to figure out what I suspected. The control box is controlling me. I was getting ready to buy an Xterra Pro just to find out if the dp tones will change pitch and give me a better chance to interpret. Pleeeease don't stop with the info. I will always be true to my first love which is my Nox. i'm a newbie, by the way.

[@LorenLemcke]

Glad to hear you are finding the videos useful :)

[@DCDetector]

Does the X/Y screen on the Deus show a correct phase angle?

[@mdsouthcarolina6143]

Is there a solution for on the other end of spectrum, let’s say a 87, high tone, but sometimes gets a Ferrous signal and indication on screen?

[@LorenLemcke]

For me, if I am getting a high tone and some iron signal mixed in, I try to look at how often and how consistently it hits that 87. Iron falses will often produces inconsistent TIDs, so consistency is a key indicator for me :)

[@markkus1134]

Great video I prefer my my minelab over my Deus2 because of the tones the Deus I use the 9” coil which I like a lot I have the 900 which is a better detector than the 800 in previous hunted spots where I’ve found a lot of silver .

[@LorenLemcke]

Thanks! Can't go wrong with any of those machines :) I do like the 9" coil on the Deus 2.

[@markkus1134]

@@LorenLemcke yep plus I already have the 11”on manticore and the 6”

[@williampaxton871]

Brilliant and sensible at the same time, Loren. I hope you get a ton of views. People in our hobby need to see this video. Bill

[@LorenLemcke]

Thank you! I should probably start including this in every video, but as a disclaimer I wouldn't regard myself as an expert or an authority on the topic, this is just what I have been able to figure out through studying on my own. I certainly could be wrong on some of this. I do hope people get something out of it :)

[@williampaxton871]

@@LorenLemcke I particularly like how you point out how XP and Minelab differ in the way that they prioritize target ID and the cost/benefit to the user of these differences.

[@LorenLemcke]

@@williampaxton871 I like to think of each detector as be represented by a list of its unique pros and cons and then navigating those lists to get the best results :)

[@TwoBitTony]

I think you're a mad scientist, I've enjoyed your videos!! I'm buying a detector, not sure which one to get. 900, or Deus 2, I'm coming from the 600. And I truly feel I'm missing out on old silver targets because all of the iron along the dunes on the treasure coast.. I know you don't lean one way or the other, but I'd love the feedback man, it'd mean more than you know.

[@LorenLemcke]

I don't think there is a wrong choice between the 900 or the Deus 2. You would be hard pressed to find a target that one could hit that the other could not. To be totally honest, neither would be a huge leap above the Equinox 600, you would be paying a lot for a very minor increase in performance. Something to consider is that the 600 coils will work with the 900 (though I do believe the 900 will come with the 11" and 6" to begin with). I say get the one you want and have fun with it :)

[@TwoBitTony]

Thanks for your imput. Headphones, and weight have been the main factors for me. Swinging something much lighter and with no latency is the deciding factor. I feel if the 900 had better headphones it'd be a done deal for me. When I got a split second to find a target before a wave crashes on my coil, the difference between no lag and lag is sooo huge. This is why I get wired to my 600. I appreciate your imput, not what I wanted to hear, but sound advice

[@LorenLemcke]

@@TwoBitTony Keep in mind the Deus 2 may need the coil antennae to operate while submerged, depending on the salt level and how deeply submerged it is. The ultra low latency (~4-8 ms) headphones are rather nice on the D2 though.

[@TwoBitTony]

That's faster than most wired headphones! Equinox needs to develop a better headphone system, and waterproof. Thanks again for your imput Loren!

[@mike-jc4wm]

I see no matter the recovery speed both detectors can not separate the taregts so why all the different speed settings .

[@timhenderson2643]

The same will happen with a nickle and quarter as well...though not as dramatic. Also with say a nickle and quarter next to one another....near the coil will be 2 signals and when raised will become one signal. Anyways, great analysis and good content!!!

[@LorenLemcke]

Yup, all co-located targets will average together in a way that is weighted based on the magnitude of their impedance vectors :)

[@Tesorosaprofunidad]

Creating a separate program for this scenarios With disc at 30 If it get pass the disc level I’ll know it’s ferrous What about high mineral soil Where iron gives Id of 88 and good tone 1 way How do I reverse falsing on iron

[@LorenLemcke]

That is actually a really good idea as a generalized test. I am not sure about those other situations, I would have to give it more thought. My initial instinct is that an iron false, since it produces an inconsitent TID, would randomly pass / fail the above test you proposed, this randomness might be an indicator, but it would likely be pretty unreliable and tricky to use correctly.

[@brillero2356]

talking about the deus 2, do you think it's possible to "fix" the tid problem with an update? do you think xp is focusing on this? obviously without losing the stability of the tid on deep objects! ps: personally it has never happened to me in real research between iron or garbage that a coin sounded good but with tid 08-09..never never

[@LorenLemcke]

I think its fixable, if I were XP I would make it so the fast program specifically has a more frequently refreshing TID. That would allow that mode to give better TIDs where it is used (heavy iron), without the other programs giving up their benefits of a more averaged TID.

[@brillero2356]

@@LorenLemcke exactly, if we had the option to choose the refresh rate of the tid that would be great, but also if only xp would decrease the lag on the fast program like you said that would be great!

[@LorenLemcke]

@@brillero2356 Yup, I think it is possible to get the best of both worlds, but it would increase the general programming complexity in terms of software development. Too many options and the thing can become a nightmare for XP to update and debug.

[@gualbertobecerrap1962]

Good explanation!! These above-ground nail tests, to me, don't mean anything to me really. As you said, XP Deus 2 is all about sound. And the chances of finding a target in those conditions are very low. In my opinion, this is just marketing, all these detectors are good. And what you said about the dirt, the ground, it is very important. Great Video.

[@gwcracker]

😂 Analog anybody? Thanks Loren!

[@LorenLemcke]

Haha, admittedly I don't have much experience on analog machines :) Thanks for watching!

[@TARABASS2173]

🤔🤨🧐😲👏

[@user-hx3ev3ng5g]

Head scratcher for you, wouldn't capacitance come into play at some point?

[@LorenLemcke]

An object with the quality of capacitance would fall into the 2nd quadrant of the impedance plane (negative x-axis component and positive y-axis component), I am not entirely 100% sure on this, but I believe certain ceramics could potentially have this quality. In terms of the metal detector being a transformer, the coil itself would have capacitance, but process we are interested in is induction.

[@user-hx3ev3ng5g]

@@LorenLemcke Yes in the quadrant of the impedance plane, one being inductive reactance, the other being capacitive reactance. In essence being opposite of each other in relation to voltage and current. One leads, one lags depending on interaction.

[@LorenLemcke]

@@user-hx3ev3ng5g Sounds like you know your stuff :D

[@itselectric3906]

So why not do the test on top of the ground rather than a raised plane, concrete or plastic bucket ?

[@LorenLemcke]

It is winter here in Finland and is impossible to dig a hole :D

[@itselectric3906]

@@LorenLemcke was rhetorical question. Should have made myself clear

[@snifitout]

Ahhh OK got it

[@scrapiron6870]

Problem did minelab fix the falsing in iron etc, they market machines like manticore and xterra but yet can’t get them to stores , poor marketing, air test r fine but in reality does nothing, your opinions r what concerning my point thankyou

[@chuckswenson8044]

The manicore does not give an accurate idea when the target is next to a nail , you are not going to be able to say this is a dime or this is a quarter because the numbers will not be accurate ,so what’s the difference, you never know what you’re digging anyway , so you go by sound and dig everything that sounds good

[@jasongwin8257]

If you only dig targets that sound good then you are leaving good things for other people to find.

[@LorenLemcke]

I agree in general, but if you go just by sound, there are iron objects (at least in my environment) that will ring up as a TID 8-12 and produce a clear non-ferrous tone (I call these false positives in another video). Having two channels of information both TID and audio for confirmation can be very helpful in reducing the amount of false positives you dig.

[@p1315]

All well and good Loren but can you stuff 30 crawdads in your mouth at one time...like Callabutt can?!? Can't say that I'm much of a fan of Iffy lining himself up with that goof. Keep up the good work my man and school us all. 👍

[@LorenLemcke]

Iffy is great, I do recommend checking his channel out. Thanks for watching.

[@scrapiron6870]

Dam thing is minelab is always sueing notka, xp , quest, and now they where dropped by the biggest distributor in Europe or Germany, minelab trying to be a bully, give your unbiased opinion so we the users no the real deal

[@p1315]

Yes, please keep it simple. Callabash it down for us. 🤣🤣🤣