The secret sauce to unmasking in Iron | Final response to Calabash Digger

[@rons5059]

Just found the channel, subscribed. As someone who likes to know "why" and understand things better, this was a great learning lesson. Also glad to hear someone else reads the manual in detail 👏👍

[@LorenLemcke]

I constantly reread the manuals even after I think I have everything figured out, and I learn something new every time :)

[@mdpassionemetaldetector]

@@LorenLemcke Holy words 👍

[@sandman4224]

I love finding guys smarter than me to point me in the right direction. After watching this video I did a bit more digging to find out how to lower the iron threshold of my Equinox 800 closer to 6.8 to unmask more targets and viola I figured it out - tested it successfully :) Thank you! I also ordered the Manticore which will most likely discriminate even more but at least I can use the 800 until it comes - whenever it comes :)

[@LorenLemcke]

Yay! Just like how masked targets like to hide in the 7-10 TID range on the Deus II, masked targets on the Equinox 800 will hide with a TID of -1 :) To be fair, I didn't figure it out myself, it outright states it in the manual :D

[@ibme4251]

I used the same technique on the Legend for this scenario. Not out of understanding. I saw an old Garrett video where they were doing this. Didn’t understand, but it worked. After watching this, I lowered it a little more and it works better. Now I know why. Thanks.

[@LorenLemcke]

Glad it makes sense. It's a pretty easy concept to take advantage of, once you can sort of visualize what is going on and know to lower that line :)

[@BrassMedic]

Subscribed - Will watch all your videos but this is Fantastic Info!! Much appreciated!

[@xstreamingdigital6233]

Unreal. I know what you did. Ever KZbinr always calls out the number on that page and says: that’s fine. What so funny is That number is actually where the cursor is resting not the setting. Great job!!! I learned something.

[@LorenLemcke]

Thanks! Happy it could be of some use :)

[@gwcracker]

Excellent video and very true! Thanks!

[@ohiofredl]

Can you explain how a coil is made and how it send and recive a signal and why one coil work better. Than another .?is the box just a tuner after it receives signal ?

[@LorenLemcke]

I am considering making just such a video :)

[@vetdetect]

I don’t blame you. Just do your thing. You taught me something today and I have thousands of hours on the nox 800. I’m always trying to learn more. I now have a fair amount of time on the Deus 2 now and love the ergonomics and weight, compactness. The nox is a great machine no doubt.

[@LorenLemcke]

Glad to hear it was of some value to you :) Thank you for watching!

[@dannyjohnson2273]

🤣👍👏thanks can u do this secret sauce on the 900 nox

[@HistoryRevisiteduk]

Yes but have you got a white coat 😉. Good work buddy , he also struggled with the legend , which made me realise that just because one person can not get a detector to hit a target , doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the detector. Keep up the great work and all the best

[@LorenLemcke]

Yeah I am literally just lowering the discrimination on the Equinox 800, something he doesn't seem to know how to do or what it accomplishes, weird. But no, I am no metal detecting medical doctor :D I didn't go to metal detector medical school, I went to a real university :)

[@Sir_Dab]

Lower the discrimination and set to conduct, that’s how unmask in heavy iron back in the Etrac days.

[@HistoryRevisiteduk]

@@Sir_Dab all metal mode 👍🏻

[@tallulahbarkhead2090]

The idea of a test program with high disc over 75 seems good. We need to come up with an easy one to toggle over too without having to raise it up and down.

[@LorenLemcke]

Agreed, I definitely like that idea.

[@Bluetube-vg7nd]

Now that was refreshing!! Well done and a new subscriber to your channel. Stay true to non-DRAMA.

[@photobuf1]

Some people are just jealous of others when they are proven wrong. When they start name calling, you win! "When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”

[@onlygazza]

Well said, I’ve been saying for ages that some nails come in at lower gold levels and vary in signals for ages and that’s why I personally decide to dig a lot of those signals. Very well explained vid, and I’m sure the new noxes and manticores will be incredible detectors, just subbed you 👏

[@timhenderson2643]

Good video man!!! I love it!!! You got a new sub just for putting someone in his place and proving it works. And you are correct....just because someone has a big mouth and a youtube channel, it does not mean they are correct....right on!!

[@LorenLemcke]

Haha, thanks.

[@michaelbariso3192]

Minelab detectors have a serious processing delay, notice the sounds are heard only after the coil has passed over the target.

[@MartinvanderBeek]

thanks, love your explaining videos, learning a lot,

[@LorenLemcke]

Np, that is great to hear!

[@x220rulz]

thats what merrel loves about the equinox he showed that tip of slightly angling to coil to get it to unmask near trash

[@LorenLemcke]

Fun physics fact that I believe nobody knows about detectors: The EM-field of a detector with a DD coil actually punches through ground mineralization better when the coil is at a slight angle as opposed to perfectly flat.

[@bbushert]

Well I subscribed and enjoyed this video. However, I do wish you shared some insight to your settings. My only guess I am coming up with is, lowering the discrimination to say -2. Then turn the tone 1 (or tone 2, I would have to check) pitch up? So when the detector averages the different VDI it will actually zone in on the non ferrous signal before the ferrous signal type thing? If that is the case, I could see the machine being alot more chatty than it already is in those iron infested cellar holes. thanks. FYI I am someone who has been using the nox 800 for a few years and love to hunt in iron. I miss with all of the settings but have never tried what I just mentioned. I have also been watching lots of videos on the deus 2 and want one!.

[@Windsurfingaddict]

I have one program that I made that runs at minus -6.8 on the XP Deus 2 for deep clean old pasture and works very well, it’s rare I dig iron except in large pieces like old large horse shoes but the D2 does give you an idea it’s iron and also you can bear it’s a large shape, practice practice practice and more practice over time, I live digging clad coins in the beach, VDI is very low, say 03 ish but the Deus is so good at giving a good tone as well as iron tone mix, My tip is to raise the coil as you sweep and the good tone comes though, takes a lot of practice to differentiate but penny make pounds over time and most clean up to spendables. So what’s your thoughts on calabash and other peoples iron falsing on Manticore ???? Like to hear your take on it 😎😎

[@michaelshealy6816]

Good informative video, big question is what did you change to make it run better?

[@lewis1141951]

YES Like I said before he doesn't know as much as he thinks he knows !!!

[@LorenLemcke]

But he's owned the machine the longest! So he must be the best xD

[@NCMilVet]

Well said!!! thanks for you "educated" understanding and quest to educate others in this hobby. I too, don't know why people have to create so much drama in such a fun hobby. I just ain't into it!! I have a new Nox 900, just got it. Is this updated in the 900? Can you share the secret? "secretly" ? Thanks again.

[@mossig]

Everyone always swing the coil left and right, add to that some turn 90 degrees. But no one moves the coil back and forward(not comfortable to do). There is a difference there when dealing with a double D coil.

[@gazzadubsmate]

Keep up the good work Loren. Nice video

[@LorenLemcke]

Thanks :) Will do

[@arthurschwarz3359]

The same controversy happened with the legend, on where to set the 1st tone break,

[@LorenLemcke]

Yeah, there is no correct setting for all situations, all targets, all environments, all goals, etc. It's a tool that every detectorist should learn (or at least learn it even exists).

[@scotttekavec4458]

Hi Loren Great video and explanation. At one point in the video while showing the graphs you mentioned some nails false higher than 10 on the D2. I think most detectorists know that some nails will give a decent sounding false signal especially nails that are bent (especially in a U shape) or nails that have a big head such as roofing nails. Can you explain why this happens and is there any way to overcome this falsing? I know I can raise the silencer and/bottlecap reject, but when I do that I’m always thinking I may lose a silver coin co-mingled with a ferrous item. Thanks

[@LorenLemcke]

Falsing from iron occurs occurs because iron objects produces both a ferrous and non-ferrous signal, whos ratios can vary based on orientation in relation to the magnetic field and the own nails shape (bent nails false more). Magnetic field lines form closed loops, so depending on whether the field lines are traveling parallel to the length of the nail or perpendicular will also affect the ratios of the ferrous to non-ferrous component, which is why certain orientations false and others do not. There isn't a great way to overcome this, as it's just an unfortunate product of the physics of the situation, it can only be minimized. My advice is, if you are in heavy iron and looking to unmask hidden silver coins, digging some iron targets is actually a sign that you are doing it right. You are right that if you raise the filters, you are less likely to find masked targets.

[@scotttekavec4458]

Thank you for such a concise, easy to understand reply. Since you’re done with Calabash( lol), maybe you should do some basic informative vids on the physics of how detectors work and that relationship to actual hunting in the field. Thanks again!

[@LorenLemcke]

@@scotttekavec4458 Thank you so much! I am working on just such a video as we speak :)

[@SuperJupiter33]

what is your opinion of the legend! thank you in advance

[@LorenLemcke]

I haven't swung it, but it seems to be a great detector at a great price, with good build quality and a nice feature set. I don't think you can go wrong with it :) Though the Equinox 700/900 is looking pretty good too. Honestly, there are tons of great detectors on the market at the moment.

[@FoxandtheGroundDetecting]

Dude!! Love your shirt 😆🤘

[@raybrock5917]

I use a t2 mostly nails are not an issue I've dug about 3 in 5 years. My ultra likes nails.

[@ChrissyEis]

I run the simplex in very heavy iron and aluminum I found out if you ground balance to zero setting I can unmask and non ferrous objects above and below iron

[@billem3085]

AND this is exactly what I meant by he is inexperience. He WON'T turn 90 degrees(I know one way repeatables can be good targets, but to get the full picture on any target, turning 90 gives you a better understanding of what you are inspecting). He doesn't know how to truly unmask in heavy iron(ANY experienced detectorist knows that you can short sweep buried iron and make it sound non-ferrous). He first issue is that he will not admit when he is wrong. Second issue is he is TOO stubborn to change. And lastly, his ego is his teacher. No one else. He owes you an apology...on his channel.

[@LorenLemcke]

He called this video "hoodoo voodoo", which is really sad because that means he might not learn anything from it.

[@billem3085]

@@LorenLemcke Unless he lets his ego go, there is no room for anyone to teach him. But I feel badly for all the ppl that don't know that watch him. They are in for a rude awakening!

[@LorenLemcke]

@@billem3085 Yup, we must all keep our egos in check, us included :)

[@BeepThis]

I'm going to sub to your channel. Just because you just bashed "the calabash" in this video. My detecting buddy and I have no problem unmasking with the 800. We hunt in heavy iron here in south western PA. I have to be honest when i first started watching this video and saw the indoor items on the box testing. I just shook my head. Gald i suck around to watch the full video!!

[@LorenLemcke]

I agree, above ground tests should be taken with a grain of salt, but I had to recreate his testing scenario to show how silly his conclusions are. He spreads lots of misinformation, I don't think intentionally, but rather through poorly contrived tests and hasty conclusions.

[@oldArmyVet]

Subscribed ,thanks for the video

[@LorenLemcke]

Np, thanks for watching :)

[@davidmccomas6954]

Would this work with the 600?

[@LorenLemcke]

Yup, you betcha. Use a sample of nails / iron from your location, then a desired target just like how I have it set up. Then lower the tone break until the target comes through (note, not every target in every configuration can be unmasked, even using these settings, some are unreachable).

[@davidmccomas6954]

Thank you

[@davidmccomas6954]

I appreciate the information

[@Fell_Wanderer]

@@LorenLemcke thanks for the information, I never thought of that other than altering recovery speed and iron bias settings

[@LorenLemcke]

@@Fell_Wanderer To be fair Minelab confusingly doesn't refer to it as discrimination, but knowing how all detectors perform discrimination, I can identify it as the equivalent setting and adjust it accordingly. Hope it helps you unmask some targets!

[@mreinhardt9686]

Nice job, thank you

[@LorenLemcke]

Thank you for watching :)

[@mikemoore7039]

Can you figure how how to do this with the Manticore. I am tired of watching Calabash showing how the manticore cant keep up with the D2 in iron.

[@LorenLemcke]

I am still waiting for my Manticore to arrive. Also the ground here is frozen, so I will also have to wait for it to melt to use it out in the wild :/ I can't tell second hand whether this is 'new detector syndrome' or actually an issue with the detector. I mean, these KZbin testers don't know how discrim / tonebreak works on the Equinox 800, it could be that the Manticore is simply too advanced of a detector for them. Calabash and TNSharpshooter mocked me for reading the manual (I read my detector's manual over and over) so it is possible they didn't read it or only skimmed through it and assumed they could figure everything out. Though had they read the Equinox 800 manual and thoroughly studied it, they would know about this unmasking technique I use. The manual literally talks about it.

[@mikemoore7039]

@Loren Lemcke nice. Mine is getting delivered in the morning. It's frozen here too, but supposed to warm up into the 50s here this weekend. Hopefully I make it out then. Good video by the way. I like the scientific reasoning you give instead of a bias opinion by you know who. I think he's just desperate to be a tester or employee for Dues to be honest.

[@mikemoore7039]

@Loren Lemcke I wonder if the same adjustment would work with the manticore. I never tried the discrimination trick you used with the 800. I'm keeping my 800 too. I'm going to try that discrimination adjustment you did with it. Very interesting

[@LorenLemcke]

@@mikemoore7039 Yup, the ferrous limits are effectively the discrimination / tonebreak line, but instead of a line, it's a 2D polygon boundary. Wish I could offer more insight, but I want to wait until I have the detector and can play with those ferrous limits.

[@mikemoore7039]

@@LorenLemcke nice. When will you be getting a manticore?

[@mikemoore7039]

what did you do to that 800 to unmask that?

[@LorenLemcke]

I lowered the discrim / tonebreak (lowered that line) to the point where the Equinox 800 lets in masked target, but not the nails. Just as by default, the D2 gives the upper range of Iron TID's a non-ferrous tone in the fast-pitch program, you can make the Equinox 800 assign non-ferrous tones to 0's and -1's by adjusting the discrim / tonebreak.

[@mikemoore7039]

@Loren Lemcke can you send me a video how you do this? Or put one on KZbin

[@LorenLemcke]

@@mikemoore7039 I have plans to make a more clear demonstration / tutorial for this :) I can't say when I will complete it though.

[@77desa77]

Have you tried cleaning the device?😅

[@LorenLemcke]

Haha yes! the mud here cannot be defeated. The mud always wins :( Seriously, Finnish people have a word for 'Mud season', it's real :D

[@jefflutz-ni6ct]

Good beach hunters figured that out a long time ago. Well put Loren, never argue with an idiot they will lower you too their level and beat you with experience. On another note, it looks like the Manticore has some false positive issues. My soils and square nails have been a nemesis. The nails out of the ground are disc. perfectly in the soil is another matter.

[@LorenLemcke]

Yup, I am sure you also know to dig those really deep -1's too. Can also use tonebreak to let those through. I am still waiting to get my Manticore, and then will likely have to wait even longer for winter to end. I am interested to see if it is a problem or just 'new detector syndrome'.

[@williampaxton871]

Loren, thank you for posting this and also keeping the emphasis on the positive. Bill

[@LorenLemcke]

My pleasure! I am done with the negative people. I hope you have a Merry Christmas!

[@somebeachdetecting]

Bro you're awesome , what professor deus say whatever he wants.. in the meantime I'll be out scoring targets with my equinox. And I find it very fascinating and pretty cool that you use the old tech of the 800 versus even using the new equinox... 🏴‍☠️

[@LorenLemcke]

Thanks! I've got the Deus II and Equinox 800 as my primary detectors. I do have a Manticore on the way, but no idea when it will arrive. The new Equinox 900 does look pretty good too!

[@somebeachdetecting]

I will be looking forward to your reviews on the new machines Have a great New Year 👍

[@johnhalstead554]

You know I never see anyone ground balance a metal detector and calabash should know that you don't take 11"coil to a trashing site the 6" coil is the best for that

[@robertwolfe2971]

So would the manticore if he had a smaller coil.like all other detectors do in trashy areas .I don't consider the 11 inch a small coil.

[@oldArmyVet]

Why aren't you going to share ??

[@LorenLemcke]

I did explain it a bit in the end, but I can make a video with a more clear demonstration if people want. It's actually easy to do, you just need to be able to visualize those graphs I drew and then know where to lower the discrim / tonebreak to.

[@TheTimijay]

He did really. Just lower the tone break to match the D2 break in the iron range.

[@marcomeatballs]

I’m curious what the setting is and like your demo. I’m not a wiz and would love to know. Great video

[@TexasTimelapse]

This is like a rap battle, but with metal detecting videos! 🤣🤣

[@LorenLemcke]

Haha, I wish it wasn't though. I don't like it like that :(

[@TexasTimelapse]

@@LorenLemcke Don't forget to show us the "super secret settings".

[@LorenLemcke]

@@TexasTimelapse I am literally just lowering the tone-break / discrimination (remember on the XP Deus II in Fast / Pitch, the discrimination is also a tonebreak!) I just lower the Nox 800 to an equivalent setting on the D2. I am lowering that dividing line that determines iron / not-iron. The Equinox confusingly calls discrimination as the tone-break, because they use a slightly different paradigm.

[@TexasTimelapse]

@@LorenLemcke I see...thanks.

[@TheTimijay]

Thanks Loren

[@LorenLemcke]

My pleasure, can't wait for the ground to melt so I can get back to finding more treasure!

[@TheTimijay]

The ground is dry and hard here. Can’t wait for some rain to get the conductivity going and make the digging easier. Happy Christmas

[@LorenLemcke]

@@TheTimijay Merry Christmas :)

[@johnhalstead554]

I'm like you I metal detect for fun it's not something that your going get rich doing it's a hobby not a job I've been metal detecting for over 40 years and I've not got rich but I have had a lot of enjoyment doing it and I can say I've never seen so much bs over metal detecting in my life are they not more important things in life then a metal detector it's a hobby people that's all don't make it something that it is not

[@LorenLemcke]

Yup, let's keep it fun and positive and let's all learn together. Merry Christmas!

[@johnhalstead554]

Merry Christmas to you to buddy I hope you have a good one

[@scottpilant9127]

Well done and thanks

[@goldfinder2610]

I teach masking unmasking settings fisher f75 mashin sir please

[@WallopinSilver]

😀Love it.

[@randystreasureadventures]

I would say this test would be more relevant outside (less EMI) and in ground where the detector actually sees and compensates for whatever ground you have. This because even ‘stable’ ground varies several points either way.

[@LorenLemcke]

Totally agree, unfortunately the ground here is frozen :D Still, it was more about demonstrating a technique as opposed to comparing performance.

[@paulmartin3946]

The 900 will hit that no problem.

[@LorenLemcke]

900 looks to be an impressive machine :)

[@Diddy291]

Different programs gives different VDI by using some filters more then other programs.

[@ohiofredl]

Thanks

[@Detectorist123]

hello mate, really like your content as you no what you are talking about, so you have a new subscriber here,

[@LorenLemcke]

Thank you for watching :)

[@StanSummers]

You can tell who didn't watch the whole video. 😁

[@adrandavies170]

Thanks Loren, this explains a test i did with the same set up to show calabash when he did the test on the Deus 2 v the equinox 800 gold coin test last year . but i did not lower the disc settings, only one program would hit the coin, so this program must have a lower disc setting, here is the video, kzbin.info/www/bejne/oKC6Z5eZacSmitk please keep up the good work

[@LorenLemcke]

Thank you! Will do :)

[@omarzoubi7386]

Your xp d2 like mad max detector

[@LorenLemcke]

Haha, even over the course of one season, it has been through hell and back with me :) I should probably clean it though.

[@whitemanriding]

👍

[@Delprete2]

Gotta say its uncool to not show the settings. Anyway its clear he’s at least notching back in some notches the Nox says is iron as default. I can hear and see it, it’s unmistakable and he also basically says it in his chart. Also he may be messing with the frequency, FS setting and swing speed. Not many other settings left so if you want to replicate his results start notching back in numbers until you hear the coin, or non ferrous target.

[@LorenLemcke]

Check out my latest video :) I show it in much more detail.

[@alexiron7921]

In park 2 the NOX unmasking easily

[@BeepThis]

Calabash isn't as smart as he thinks he is.

[@LorenLemcke]

He actually tried to tell me he knows more about the Deus II because he has had it the longest... I can't imagine trying to employ such stupid logic.

[@proudlyamerican2764]

You lowered tone break to -4? Or something in that realm with horseshoe off? Either way I'm confused and curious. Also this whole spat is comically ignorant as you know

[@proudlyamerican2764]

Nope iron audio is on,idk it's funny though

[@LorenLemcke]

I matched the Deus II's discrim/tonebreak on the Equinox 800 so they are commensurate. It improves the unmasking on the Equinox. Props to D2 for getting it right out of the box.

[@proudlyamerican2764]

Tbf I've never considered this and it makes absolute sense and known by all this is possible. Although possible I don't think anyone consider this normally lol 😅 most don't or haven't including me. It's because deus has it or control of it front and center I think whr nox doesn't. Don't block or not engage both yall are better then this

[@proudlyamerican2764]

Lmao 🤣 your not wrong. Remember folks we all have a got ya bias and atleast the got ya is with foolish pride and not intended malice. I hope lol

[@LorenLemcke]

@@proudlyamerican2764 The Nox 800 does hide it a bit, and the D2 has more fine tune adjustment making it overall better imo, but I've never seen the KZbin experts leverage this for more unmasking potential. I use this all the time in the field with good results (also false positives).

[@detectinganonymous]

Calabash is about as much use as a parking brake on a canoe. He thinks he knows everything and anyone who contradicts him is stupid. This is exactly why he will never be an authorised beta tester. Well done putting him in his place.

[@LorenLemcke]

Lol, he was asking me for an apology video.