Yamaha EF3000iSE Inverter Generator (Part 1) - No Power Output (Bad Inverter Module?)

This generator was another junkyard pick. I do not know any of the history on the machine. Does it have a bad engine, bad generator or a bad invertor control module? Lets find out.
Part 1: (This video)
Part 2: • Yamaha EF3000iSE Inver...
Part 3: • Yamaha EF3000iSE Inver...
Generator Model: EF3000iSE
Control Unit (Inverter Module) Part Numbers:
7WL-8A210-16-00
7WL-8A210-10-00
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#GeneratorRepair #SmallEngineRepair #SmallEngine #DIY #Fixed #Troubleshooting #HowTo
Inverter Generator overload light flashes, no power and throttle does not respond.

[@KensSmallEngineRepair]

I’m glad we’re friends as none of that electrical jargon made sense!!

[@jcondon1]

There are a great KZbin channels that can help with that. Big Clive kzbin.info, Mr. Carlson's Lab kzbin.info, Photonicinduction kzbin.info, jeffescortlx kzbin.info, Bassguitarist1985 kzbin.info and The Post Apocalyptic Inventor (earlier videos) kzbin.info

[@jerrybootneck1736]

@@jcondon1 Big Clive is awesome and lives on the isle of white.

[@John-cn8jv]

@@jerrybootneck1736 doesn't Clive live on Isle of Man??

[@jerrybootneck1736]

@@John-cn8jv I stand corrected John yes he does, I was on a trip to the Isle of White the weekend so still got that on my brain lol

[@stevewarren3051]

@@jcondon1 If you confuse him, sending him to Carlson's channel would push him over the edge.

[@trickyrat483]

Glad you spotted your initial mistake around the third wiring's voltages - I was shouting "BUT THERE'S A DECIMAL POINT!" at the screen. :)

[@jcondon1]

Got to stop using auto ranging mode. Not the first time that decimal tripped me up.

[@maverick5006]

@@jcondon1 I see what you did there..."Tripped" me up LOL

[@Alamagosa]

Manual ranging meters have their virtues.

[@SEXYTECH1000]

I WAS SAYING THE SAME THING.

[@SLeslie]

To be honest I haven't seen a handheld multimeter that indicated values below 1 with just a decimal point. I think it is a silly thing to introduce a 100000% error because of this kind of laziness failing to implement proper display of measurements.

[@idontneedaname85]

I’m an electrical hobbyist. And do electrical work full time on complicated equipment. One of my favorite things todo is to repair things that are “not repairable” if you suspect those caps you can use force and remove them. Add little pig tails and remote mount some caps. (Only do this if your sure that the inverter bored is dead) with that being said it’s so much fun to bring junk back to life!!!!

[@bliblobliblob3279]

We have used the kzbin.infoUgkxOTeIs0vv4_9B5hsmnLsk9r930uDQLu_Y for probably 30 hours with our camper and it’s been great! The noise level is really only noticeable when running the AC and other appliances like the microwave, hair dryer, or coffee pot. It’s not huge like other ones and it has wheels so even at 90lbs, I can move it!

[@stevenhughes6548]

You could replace caps, open them around bottom where leads come out, cut wires and solder new caps to stubs. Caps do go bad and will make internal voltages un stable causing internal shut down.

[@bobadam7021]

I was thinking the same thing. Those two caps are probably about $15, for both. It would be well worth the effort to make a couple of leads to try it out.

[@plop55]

I have done that on large potted caps. Most of the time I just pull the top off with a pair of pliers and the legs will remain in the board to solder the new cap to. I have used two short pieces of insulated wire to connect the cap and fill the hole with RTV and push the new cap part way into the hole and the RTV will hold it there.

[@KuntalGhosh]

those caps seem to be good and it should not cause dc at the output. i suspect few dead mosfets on the output inverter full bridge .

[@bluethumbdiy4735]

Almost certainly dead MOSFETs. I don’t know how potted that inverter board is but replacing MOSFETs is not difficult and it’s easy to figure out which ones are bad

[@KuntalGhosh]

@@bluethumbdiy4735 the board can be depotted by cooking it .

[@gm837228]

Pretty sure it is those caps. Grind them off at the base with a Dremel. The solder the two wires to two new caps. 10 min job and a few bucks on caps. Worth a try?

[@wjodf8067]

Pull a "BigClive" on it Potted circuits ? so what that one cap was blown the brown plastic cover is off and that cap is bulged best to do both but watch out for pcp

[@larrysmith3374]

What a treat on a Thursday morning!

[@piodambrosio1427]

Ciao James, io sono un tecnico elettronico con la passione per la meccanica; Motivo per il quale con i motori me la cavo bene; Ho avuto esperienza con i normali gruppi elettrogeni; Ma Questi inverter per come li ho visti mi incuriosiscono ancor di più e se mi capitasse l'occasione non mancherò di mettermi alla prova; Nel frattempo vedo tutti i tuoi video , uno, per uno belli, interessanti e coinvolgenti Grazie anche per i sottotitoli che tramite la traduzione automatica seguo in italiano la mia lingua! Grazie! James dopo 7 minuti di video azzardo l'ipotesi che il gruppo funziona in tutti i suoi componenti: il problema è che il carburante non arriva al carburatore il gruppo si ferma per esaurimento benzina nel carburatore! il problema è di ordine meccanico! O.k. Guarderò la fine de video per verificare tramite te la mia ipotesi!

[@rich3500]

This is the Achilles heel of inverter generators and is why I don't like them. I would do as others have suggested and cut the large caps off level with the potting compound or just above it. Then dig out what's left of the innards while being careful not to damage the leads. It might be worth soldering some wires to the leads and mounting the new caps externally, at least for testing. It's certainly worth a try!

[@thedavesofourlives1]

Its always bad caps. Genius!

[@MrBugsier5]

Y have repaired several of these, Its the 2 big caps. you can yank then out whit pliers, and solder two new caps on the resisting connectorleads that will pull out of the caps... its a bit off a fiddly job but it worked two times for me on two sets. (those where the eu versions of 230 volts. Dont think its different on the 120 volt sets..) had the same syndrome. also had one whit a broken wire...

Last time it took me about three evenings (working like 1-2h/day) to depot an inverter and repair it. The de-potting is the trickiest. I used the hot air rework station to soften the compound and picks and tweezers to clean the board. It can be done cold. Dental picks and light hands. There are lots of SMD components there that can go MiA with a steel pick. Maybe depot just beneath the IGBTs. Even I, with 20+ years of experience in electronics, I broke a resistor that I had to scratch and measure under a microscope to identify it's value and replace it. These inverters shoot their IGBTs because they have crappy flyback diodes or none at all and surges from inductive loads toasts them. People use these inverters to power their fridges and vacuum cleaners or pressure washers. A few hiccups in the load and poof... Swap the IGBS's with bigger and sturdier ones. *Add flyback diodes* across E-C on every IGBT transistor in the H-bridge that can handle 600-1000V and a decent current, like 30-40A. Do not be shy when choosing the IGBTs. If the originals were like 750V 25A put in 35A or better. It's nice to have them in the same mounting size but putting to247 instead of to220 might worth the extra work. They are not too expensive. *No matter if one or two or three out of four IGBTs are blown, they all must be replaced with four new transistors.* The ones that measure fine and seem to work are surely damaged internally and will fail shortly, blowing the new ones along. I am 100% there are blown IGBT transistors in the H-bridge and you're feeding DC into the outlet and your light bulb but the AC motor in the space heater cannot turn on DC. I am sure the resistor heated up, tho... I've spent the equivalent of about 40 usd in parts to fix that inverter and the bundled 1.2kw generator. It is well worth the work. Also, the microcontroller that does all the PWM (the sine wave generator), protection, signaling and throttle control seems to be still fine. I saw the throttle is controlled. That microcontroller can eventually fry and then you realy have a dead inverter because no store will have a pre-programmed chip to sell you. Stop testing and stressing the inverter in the generator. Those power transistors can fail in various progressive manners. They have driving circuitry behind them and then there are the frail microcontroller pins. If one high-side IGBT shorts collector-to-grid... it puts 300+V into the totem driver which can die and short those volts in the microcontroller. I don't know you or your channel. YT randomly recommends :P I can recommend an EU store for looking up parts. Nothing elsewhere. If things above sound chinese... point the inverter to an electronics technician that is seasoned in power supplies, computers, automotive electronics and not a _mainboard replacer._

[@David-oi7vg]

Hello! Thanks for all the information. Im trying also to repair an inverter module, it doesnt have any power output. Is there something to soft the epoxy? Thanks again.

@@David-oi7vg 120-140°C air

[@David-oi7vg]

@ thanks

[@AZVIDS]

Just came from part 2, don’t know how i missed part 1……going back to part 2 now👍👍👍

[@CarlosAvellanet]

Open the inverter up and check for bulging capacitors and corrosion. A lot of electronics from this era use substandard chinese capacitors that leak and corrode the circuit board.

[@klaust.2769]

That's the Problem! The inverter is potted and you can't repair them. I think they do this to protect the electronics from moisture and vibrations (or perhaps to prevent a repair attempt?).

[@josephroberts6027]

@@klaust.2769 It is VERY EASY to unpot electronics!!

[@dublindave5795]

@@klaust.2769 Soaking in MEK or acetone and a heat gun will break down the potting material. it will scrape off. PIA but doable.

[@klaust.2769]

@@dublindave5795 Thank you, i will try this next time!

[@Alamagosa]

@@dublindave5795 I have gone that route before but it removed a lot of component markings as well.

[@rotex380]

Too bad manufacturers don't sell at cost prices to support their products and customers, I hope you can find the inverter or get this one repaired. Love watching you tinker with your projects in my spear time.. really appreciate the work you put in to your videos thanks very much for sharing, looking forward to seeing you revisit this one..👍

[@jcondon1]

Thanks Pat. I hope to get this repaired. Just need to find someone with this experience. Worst case I can dig out the potting, but chances are I will cause more damage then fix.

[@tiredoldmechanic1791]

You can remove the potting compounds and it might be something you want to try. Some types can be removed just by heating to a certain temperature.

[@davidfoulk3078]

And the very instant you take that machine to the dump……a new inverter module will pop up on line for $299.00….lol

[@jcondon1]

That is pretty much a guarantee.

[@kevin34ct]

Nice, I know people at my dump too and I usually go an look at the computers people throw away and sometimes get some good stuff.

[@jonathaningram4672]

Hi you may not remember me, I had a problem with a Honda EB1900X generator (GX140 engine) where the governor pin fell in the engine. I was testing it and it suddenly revved up like crazy so shut it off. I eventually got in to the engine and besides the sludge in the crank case, no damage. I recovered all the parts but for a good 20 minutes trying to fit the pin through casing with no luck. I checked back on one of your vids and the top part of the pin was slightly bent, so it must have hit something as I shut it off, now that was lucky, could have smashed everything in there. It's all fixed now including the seeping fuel issue, a worn rubber disc with 4 holes in pet tap. Really enjoy your videos, very informative and good instructions too.

[@jcondon1]

Thanks for the update. Glad to hear that you were able to get it going again.

[@chatrkat]

Good to see one disassembled to some degree, looks like a nice quality piece of equipment. But like so many modern higher tech devices, the parts costs can be outrageous in price. I hope you can find a module at a decent price to fix it.

[@ronaldclark2624]

The capacitor that you pointed our is a large mfd low voltage for standard P.C board, card and should be readily available! Older style P.C cards are repairable. Some newer multi layer boards are more difficult to work on. Hopefully parts are available even though Radio Shack is out of business. I am now retired 15 years and out of touch. My interest are different and I haven't kept up. I enjoy watching you diagnose and repair. I didn't know that Generators were that complex! Ron USA

[@lot27a]

Wow...a little bit of checking revealed Yamaha still makes this generator and it looks exactly like this one. That must say something. I hope we get to see round two!

[@throwbo]

Yes and no. They make a generator with the same model # but the internals are different. This happens a lot with internet routers - even though it's the same model #, v.1 and v.2 and v.3 will have completely different internals.

[@cpcoark]

A quick way to check if the capacitor is your problem would be to cut the capacitor case off and gut it out. Get down to the terminals and solder a replacement in with pigtails. It's a temporary fix of course. 😃

[@throwbo]

If you soldered in new caps and then secured them against movement and vibration with silicone, cable ties, etc. this could be a permanent repair.

[@nate51595]

I like these Yamahas! Despite the same MSRP and features as a Honda EU3000iS they typically don't sell for as much on the second hand market but still can fetch $1500 in nice shape.

[@nate51595]

Now that I finally got through the video I do see the predicament. Although you mention that this specifically needs that your range of inverters that may not be the case. I had an EU2000is with a bad inverter. Instead of paying $500-600 for a genuine inverter I ended up finding a 2000 watt Chinese clone with a blown engine for $40. Through some MacGyvering despite not being able to get the wiring diagram for the Chinese generator I was able to make the inverter work for the EU2000i and still retain overload, eco throttle and low oil shutdown capabilities. When I did some searching through Hondas manual it appeared to me most of the brains were in the small control box that held the three lights so if I could match the wires up properly I was able to use an inverter not intended for that Honda. I ended up selling that cheap to a friend and it still works great. Without doing a lot of research I might take a gamble on a cheap inverter module not me at for that year range just to see if it would work but I haven't done any research on these as I have not had an inverter module fail on them. Without having genuine parts it makes it tough to sell to a customer and feel good about it though.

[@nate51595]

If you have any interest in getting some detail how I used non OEM inverters in place of the original let me know and I can shoot you an email. I have done it twice.

[@jerrybootneck1736]

You have nothing to lose James so try de-potting the module in boiling water, I did this with my granddaughters CDI unit on her 125cc Scooter. The potting compound comes out in lumps. There's a guy on KZbin who de-potted a module for a computer if memory serves me right and he cleaned the whole board so he could work on it. Like I say you have nothing to lose and another video in the making. Good luck from England. Went and found the video for you. Depotting Electronics with Boiling Water - KZbin

[@jcondon1]

Interesting idea. Cannot make it any worse.

[@jerrybootneck1736]

@@jcondon1 there are just a couple of videos on here regarding de- potting and both with success. Go for it and maybe video it.👍

[@throwbo]

@@jcondon1 Before you depot the whole thing just try replacing the 2 caps.

[@matthewrichmond5179]

Might check to see if you are getting AC or DC coming from the output on the plugs. lights and the resistive heater will work on both ac or dc. The motor on the other hand will not due to it being a shaded pole motor. But i would bet that the inverter is putting DC to the plugs.

[@Mrcrowley1967]

Morning James just sent a fellow mechanic your way he needed to view your video on removing the armature non a portable generator

[@amundsen575]

Caps in inverters, converters, VFD's work very hard and subject to fail due to heat, need to be of the highest quality, but not always supplied. Pain in the ass to replace when when potted, but worth trying, considering the cost of a replacement inverter. Ive repaired VfD's and converters many with bad caps as they do have a finite life compared to most other components on the circuit board.

[@paulmoffat9306]

I checked for potting compound removal solvents and one that was recommended, was EPOSOLVE 25036. This will soften and remove Epoxy and Urethane type potting compounds. That would allow you to check components on the board and replace them.

[@MegaNovacain]

I cant seem to find this eposolve 25036. I did see a pdf but cant open it. Wondering if you might be able to send me a link ?

[@U00ldl3]

Hi James, I have tried to remove the epoxy from an inverter module and I have finished destroying the module by breaking the board or pulling some small resistors with the epoxy. I would dig in the region of the big ripped capacitor cause he could be replaceable. If the issue is elsewhere (smaller capacitor or MOSFET), that could be an impossible task. Again, check the big capacitor and see if any sign of leak. If he is bad, try to get to the board by digging in the capacitor itself. You need to get to the board 2 contacts and weld to wires to a new capacitor.

[@Farm_fab]

I just picked up a John Deere self propelled commercial push mower for $35, and $15 later, it runs and functions as it should. It had a bad plug, and had water in the fuel and carb. It was a nice scrap yard find.

[@dannydunford3681]

I am an electronic tech.. at one time I tested switch mode power supplies and repaired the broken ones....... The Generator puts out AC and then its rectified and changed to DC and then filtered with those big Caps that stick out... looked to me that the Inverter was working.. but failed with any load. ??.... that tells me that those big caps.. ( storage caps ) are bad... those caps store the energy between ac cycles so it can power the inverter not dependent on engine speed.. if you carefully cut out those caps and solder in replacements.. and epoxy them in place.. you can even just jumper ones in after you cut them out just to test it... I am 99% sure thats all it needs. .. I always watch your Channel....

[@kneedeepinit]

this video helped me. I have a bad Powerhouse 3100 inverter and I am pretty sure it is the inverter board. I just bought a used unit that had a bad engine. With any luck, I can make one good unit out of the two. I posted an ad on the local buy / sell (kijiji) and offer 200 for a parts unit or I would sell mine for $200. If the other guy had a blown engine issue, he had a chance to recover some money or buy mine as a parts unit

[@brianjohnston9822]

I would like to get a gander at the capacitors and both sides of the board. You can buy hot knives that screw into a soldering iron. You can slowly melt and scrape the potting material off. Before multi layered boards came out we were trained on removing potting material to access the solder joints. Even if the board is multilayered, you can use a hot knife to loosen the bottom of the capacitors from the board.

[@ItllBurnOff]

Another great video, I have a Honda inverter generator with a bad inverter and it kills me. Runs like a champ.

[@jcondon1]

Its a shame to have something like this that otherwise is good. I am sure that inverter module only costs a fraction of the price being charged. Would be nice if manufactures sold parts at cost to support their equipment and customers.

[@lv_woodturner3899]

I expect the inverter was potted for weather protection, but it is a shame that it means you cannot test the components. The capacitors do not look to have bulged, but they could still be bad and would be the first components to check. I love the sound of the engine as it makes the whistle sound when turned off. You did all you could to diagnose the issue. Sad that it was the inverter. Dave.

[@davidmcclare443]

if it was just for weather protection they could have used a clear jell filler that could have been easy to remove and diagnose

[@exbritishforcespatriotscha7723]

Money maker,the cost of a new one can out way value of older models..

[@simonilett998]

Hi James, Love your videos mate👍 It's unfortunate these inverter modules are so expensive!! I ran into exactly the same problem. I have a 6300iSE that is now taking up space in my shed. I took it on as a job to fix for a customer that bought it used, unknown condition and engine would not start. After checking the enigine over, cleaning the carby etc, I managed to get the engine running. The only way it would start (and runs great) is once I unplugged the stator connectors. It uses a 6 wire stator, with 2 sets of Y connected 3 phase windings, divided into two halves 180° apart, and a pair of inverter boards (if that makes sense.) I tested all 6 stator windings and two legs tested bad. When I removed the stator, two sets of windings were melted/shorted. Not knowing the condition of the inverters, I gave the customer an estimate on rewinding the stator and trying it out, but could not guarantee him if the inverters were any good. The customer declined the risk, so I took a punt and the risk on myself. I bought the machine from him for spare parts or possible fix at a spare parts price. I decided to rewind the melted windings of the stator and see if it fixed the issue. Unfortunately, this didn't fix the original issue, it melted two of the windings again🤣 So it turns out one or both inverter boards are bad/shorted internally somehow. After rewinding the stator a second time but not game to re-live the previous experience again, I got a quote from a Yamaha agent on the 2 new inverters (only sold as a pair) and a new inverter interface/synchroniser module to cover all bases. The quote for these parts came to a little over $3000 Australian $$...hence it is now taking up space in my shed, with a difficult decision to make, if and when I can ever afford or justify going any further with it. You're welcome to check out the link below to a short video I posted on my channel, if you happen to have time one day. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bZDOdpuJZZd6jrc 🤣👍🇦🇺

[@r8118830]

I am never tempted to rewind motors or generators. Its just too much work.

[@simonilett998]

@@r8118830 You're right, it was very time consuming to rewind the stator (twice) but the price of a new stator was around $1600 AUD, and I was quoted around $900 to have it re-wound by a shop, so with no guarantee the inverters were even good at the time I figured it was worth a shot to give it a go myself. Also, only two phases of half of the stator were damaged, so luckily I only had to rewind the phases that were bad, gladly I didn't have to totally rewind the whole stator.

[@jcondon1]

Agreed

[@vmaxride06]

Great Video James, always impressed by your methodology. Wish I had what you needed , it would already be on the way. Looking forward to part II. Chris

[@billarroo1]

Very informative, this is why I don't like inverters or inverter welders, you never know if it will work the next time you start it up. Inverter welders weld really nice but I would wrather have a transformer welder as they hardly ever fail. I have a Miller 200 dx inverter Tig and stick welder, it is a very reliable welder as far as inverter welders go. But when they go out its never less than about $1,500 dollars to fix it. It cost new about $4,300. New. And I only use it to weld ALUMINUM, I use my cheaper welders for steel. Great Video. Thanks

[@michaeltarasenkoop2389]

Is there a setting for how tight a spark plug setting should be I’m always afraid of snapping the plug off while putting it in or out

[@depressedbread6893]

I could remove the epoxy, by heating with a hot air station. But i'm not sure if i can fix the inverter. By the look of it the inverter goes unstable at lower input voltage. So it could be the filter capacitors that's bad and causes the voltage in the inverter to goes up and down triggering the low voltage cut off of the inverter. Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong. And the fact that you can't power the fan on the heater but able to power the ac light, probably means that inverter output dc instead of ac. The H-Bridge might be shorted

[@Alamagosa]

That was my thought as well. At lower voltages and lower RPM, more capacitance is required to hold the voltage up between cycles, and given the age, the bulk input capacitors are likely worn out.

[@andrewraymond6223]

Good to see you doing an Inverter video. Great dump find

[@zrkn1]

How in the world did I miss this video.

[@nealrehm6895]

I have an inverter from a Honda EB 3000c plus the stator. The stator needs a good cleaning. Like your video, NWR.

[@jonathaningram4672]

The fan in that heater did move. I saw it only about 5 inches, so I guess a go cart engine only. Not cost affective, some sparky could probably rebuild the invert? Do Like your vids, got me out of a scrape was almost pulling hair out on my head.

[@lustfulvengance]

And this is why I tell people not to get inverter generators! It seems like an awesome idea until the inverter takes a crap and then the machine is junk whereas on a conventional generator there's far less to go wrong and the parts are much less expensive!

[@YukonHawk1]

I was really hoping that it wasn't the inverter. Good idea to hang on to it and see what happens down the road. You might get lucky 👍. If anything else you'll have some parts on hand for another genny like it. Enjoy the nice weather we're having.💪💪💪🙂🙂🙂

[@jcondon1]

You never know. There are still a few more things I can check. Just seems odd that I get a green inverter light (sometimes), what appears to be some power, but will not spin the fan. Maybe the wrong frequency output or DC output? Not sure.

[@YukonHawk1]

@@jcondon1 it's a mystery to be solved.🙂

[@shadowbanned69]

Yeah I would definitely put my money on that blown capacitor the reason why that sticker is gone is because it popped. Even though the metal seal on the back isn't damaged it could have shot out the side, it could have just overheated but I'm more than willing to bet replacing that one capacitor would probably fix it. But with the with a good mini die grinder and a good digging bit you could probably cut that potting out desolder both of those caps and replace them. They only pot them so you can't fix them!!!

[@jcondon1]

It is worth a try. Cannot make it any worse and caps are cheap. The big thing is removing the potting compound without causing any damage to the board.

[@jeremydewolfe8026]

As it certainly could be there capacitor, I didn’t see any of the electrolytic sprayed around the area as you would normally see once that vent blows, it could potentially just be the slit in the plastic cover that allowed the disc to drop out. Have you considered the last link in the chain? What if your electrical delivery device is the simple thing that could be bad? The outlet!Sometimes outlets have internal brass legs that become loose over time. Either alligator clip 1/2 of a female side of an extension cord to the wires running to the outlet, or pull the outlet out and install a brand new one and see if you now have steady power…

[@stevewarren3051]

@@jcondon1 Just cut the can open level with the potting. Isolate the 2 leads to the the circuit board and solder in a new cap.

[@jcondon1]

That would do it.

[@browsedeweb8834]

@@jcondon1 I'd be very surprised of those two caps aren't already on order, knowing you.

[@shawnmrfixitlee6478]

Sure wish I had that inverter James . I would send it your way ! You can replace those Caps if you take them apart and get to the legs coming out of them . Hope you get it going ! ENJOYED..

[@jcondon1]

Thanks Shawn

[@sellC1964]

Can you somehow remove a portion of the potting to check the capacitors? Or, if you pull the capacitors apart you might be able to gain access to the leads for each and then connect new ones to those leads.

[@tomo4635]

I hope this video helps someone, namely me! Thanks for your uploads buddy. Wish I could help but sadly just a tinker.

[@foodforthought73]

Wished you lived closer to missouri... i have a hobart 4500watt gen welder that spit n sputtered and stopped charging, had a few guys look at it thay cant figured it out,,, your aweaome ive watched almost all of your vids. Keep up the good work.

[@jcondon1]

Thanks. Wish I lived closer.

[@foodforthought73]

If it wasnt so heavy id mail it. Lmao...

[@tomrussell2514]

Really enjoy your Mr. Fixit videos. Picked up a Champion 2000 watt unit with a similar issue. It actually has power but won’t increase speed as the load increases. The unit is under warranty so the tech is sending out a governor stepper motor. If that doesn’t fix it, the control unit is next. I’ll be looking to see if you replace the bad caps.

[@jameskenney5623]

I always steer my customers away from inverter generators. I understand their significance and why we have them however the inverter boards go bad quite often and it's more expensive to replace the board then just to buy a new generator. I've got four generators in my parts room right now that all have bad inverter boards. 1 Yamaha, 2 generac and a Ryobi

[@throwbo]

The generator environment (lots of heat, high current, vibration, sometimes moisture and corrosion, rodents making nests and peeing, etc. ) are not the best thing in the world for delicate electronics. People run engines that are literally 100 years old (or more) but electronics tends to have a more limited lifespan - caps leak or dry out, solder connections come lose, chips fry., etc.

[@hectorcollazo4262]

Muchas gracias, una ultima pregunta la que tengo le puse carburador nuevo original, le ajuste valvulas tiene chispa me da 60psi de compresion pero no enciende que usted me podria decir que verifique Muchas gracias agradezco su ayuda.

[@jerrypeal653]

I believe there is a solvent that will dissolve the potting . Don’t know if that’s of any interest to you . Actually it’s boiled water not solvent .

[@somerandomguy3868]

Good luck with this unit, like all Yamaha engines it sounds great even with the old oil, probably never been changed, and you're right someone might have what it needs

[@jcondon1]

The engine does sound great.

[@MrKeithsplace]

Did you check both receptacles? Possibly the connections on the receptacles, voltages and load, both hot and neutrals, I had one with similar symptoms, found both bad breaker/ and burnt neutral feed to all receptacles, also check grounds.

[@r8118830]

Looking at that portion of the video again it seems to me that the two electrolytic capacitors are rated at 3300 microFarad and 400V. These are very expensive capacitors. I have seen the price of one as varying from 80 dollars to over a hundred dollars. The 105 degree C ones are even more expensive compared to the 85 degrees C ones. Personally I would want to check that replacing them works before spending 200 dollars on new ones. I reckon that they must be connected in parallel giving a total of some 6600microFarads. This is the sort of capacitive filter value that is used for large current outputs. I am trying to think of options. If you could get one or more high voltage caps from a used control board or something similar it would be alright just for testing. Using used electrolytics as a permanent fix on something that you are going to sell is not a good idea. Another idea could be to use an array of series or parallel connected caps so that the values needed for either or both approaches would be lower and so would be cheaper. You could use 350V caps instead, You can get these for a quarter of the price of the 400V ones. They wont have as long a life though. The figures suggest 5000 hours of expected life.Thank you for putting up with my meanderings.

[@browsedeweb8834]

Looks like 1500uF and 105C to me. No idea what voltage they are.

[@r8118830]

@@browsedeweb8834 At 29.30 in, the image of the two caps is about at its largest. If you turn the image upside down the right hand side image certainly looks like the second number is a 3. The only standard value with the second number being 3 would be 3300 uF. If the right hand cap is 3300uF then the left hand cap will be as well. I cannot see the temperature rating though. As for them being 400V rated, it just makes sense to me. The single phase unregulated AC voltage that James measured was about 225V rms That means that the peak value of that waveform is 225 x root 2. This gives a value of about 318V pk, The only two standard values for large electrolytic capacitors of this type that exceeds 318V is either 350V or 400V. Any designer worth his salt working on an expensive machine like this wants his creation to have some longevity. The 400V rating and 105C rating will give you the most longevity that you can get without using an array of differently valued capacitors. The extra cost of using 400V and 105C caps is real but it has to be balanced against the costs of getting a reputation for saving a few dollars by skimping on quality. James will be able to tell in an instant by looking closely at the caps. If he decides to try to fix the module by replacing those caps with other components then that decision is his not mine. I find these sorts of discussions interesting. I certainly am not trying to impugn your view Browse Deweb.

[@thedavesofourlives1]

Find a working but obsolete computer power supply to salvage a capacitor like this.

[@pauls4708]

I hope that you get it worked out.I hate the thought of the waste we all take for granted with this sort of thing.

[@jamesbruce1183]

If one of those capacitors is failed, it could cause the symptoms you are seeing. Likely the 3 phase output from the stator is rectified to DC and filtered by those capacitors. If one is dead, the average voltage output from the rectifier circuit would drop. Maybe low enough that the inverter would not come on. You can dissolve the potting.

[@PaulHigginbothamSr]

With that bad capacitor sticking up like that I would certainly replace both those capacitors potted or not. One could certainly dig down through both capacitors to get to their connections and easily solder in two new capacitors saving this expensive hummer.. couldn't hoit.

[@TheRustyRooster]

Awesome James... iv been over run with generators here lately... you are the goto guy when I have questions... thanks a bunch...🐓👍

[@jcondon1]

Hopefully just engine issues. Power issues can be time consuming and sometimes a dead end.

[@TheRustyRooster]

@@jcondon1 engine issues and a couple bad breakers

[@willrobbinson1]

most failures in potted resin are simply small component failed but getting to it is a major effort to get at so is junked prob from a 5 cent resistor ect (very common ) these days

[@stanleyknight8173]

James you must be a genius everything you do is fascinating I wish I understood more about electronics.. I have only the basic knowledge that it will bite you and yes I have been bitten by electricity before is electricity before. keep on making your videos as i really do enjoy them.

[@josephroberts6027]

Man the worst bite I have ever had was from a small sony digital camera1 The dang flash capacitor bit me and burnt a hole slam thru one finger! &^%*^% God that was bad!!

[@stanleyknight8173]

@@josephroberts6027 Try holding on to a to an electrical cord while it is plunged in. I was helping an electrician straightened out his electrical cord when I was a kid the............. electrician it plugged in while we were straightening it out. Yep I found the break in the line for him and got a good burn on my hand for the trouble. LESSON LEARNED. 🎆

[@jcondon1]

It can bite. Was replacing a light fixture for a neighbor. I had them turn the circuit breaker off for me. Lets just say is was NOT off.

[@r8118830]

@@jcondon1 I was taught to trust no-one but yourself. Remove the fuses or circuit breakers, if you can and put them in your pocket.

[@deangentles4966]

Hi James great sitting in your class today it looks to good to scrap mate just keep it buy

[@jackmahogovv]

I would have liked to see you check voltage at the plugs. With the heater, I could see the power light come on but no fan or heating coils. So I am assuming it was putting out some power, just not what it should have been. I am with you though in thinking its the inverter which, unfortunately is not an easy fix. Thanks for running through your troubleshooting steps with us though.

[@jcondon1]

I will probably do a follow up. Want to check the other single phase outputs as well as the ac and dc output on the outlets. Will also hook the oscilloscope.

[@newrhea13]

In the future if you ever come across this, this might save your butt... Since the top of that capacitor was clearly blown... and If it was just the capacitor, you might have just gotten lucky, I have done this many times, and you just cut the top off the capacitor-mid of the capacitor, yank the layers out(make sure to leave the leads and tabs connected. And soldered new ones right onto the board or even the capacitor leads that are then exposed, if you don't go too ape on it. Otherwise you could depot that easily enough, it's a little time consuming, but just Mill out what you know your safe to on a Bridgeport or something, and remove the rest by hand. Let me know if you want help? Doubt anyone will read this tbh.

[@r8118830]

We addicts read them all Rayote. Its always interesting to see what people think. Your approach sounds feasible.

[@beezalbub7325]

Just questions as your knowledge and abilities far exceed mine. 1) why does the inverter need to be the exact same part? To me power in and power out wouldn't care about the module part number. 2) if push came to shove and you couldn't find anyone to repair the module, since the capacitor is mostly external could you carefully mechanically tear it apart and get to the electrical leads. That in theory would allow you to hack a new one in place. Assuming the problem is in fact the capacitor.

[@throwbo]

Sometimes they keep the same model # but completely rearrange things internally - not just the inverter might be different but also the connectors, the inputs and output to the various lights and switches, etc. It's not impossible that a later model Yamaha inverter (or even one of similar size from a Chinese clone) could be made to work but it might require some work. Sure if he can get another inverter for free or $100 it's worth a short but you're not going to order an $1,100 incompatible inverter on the chance that you can make it work.

[@DeadKoby]

What an interesting generator. I'll call it, Blue Bubble. It's plausible to replace the two big capacitors on the inverter board without depotting the whole thing. In the computer world (my world) early 2000's were PLAGUED with bad quality capacitors......and it's a common failure anyway. Chopping them off at the surface level and scraping the guts out should give you leads to J-hook/solder to.

[@jcondon1]

That is what I am going with. If that does not work, can always try depotting the board.

[@Djkyle65]

Im in the same boat. I have a Eu1000 with a suspected bad inverter. Unfortunately its potted just like this and the value of the inverter is more then the generator is worth.

[@rayshutsa6690]

Thank you for another great video. I hope you find a solution to the inverter issue .😀❤🇨🇦

[@r8118830]

I have seen people try all sorts of things when attempting to depot circuits with varying degrees of success. It is always time consuming. I had not seen the boiling water on glass approach that one of your correspondents linked to in this thread. The best success I have seen is with a hot air dryer giving out air below about 300 F.. This softens the material and then you can use a scalpel or a dental pick to carefully remove it. If you try this or something else I would advise working close to the large electrolytic capacitors you showed us. If you can free them and measure their capacitance values then and find them out of spec, or see more physical damage, then you may be able to replace them without depotting the rest of it.

[@jcondon1]

I agree. Ideally I would remove the material around the caps and along the edge of the PCB and remove the caps and put new ones in.

[@josephroberts6027]

Boiling water is the best way to remove epoxy potting!! Heat guns and hot air stations will work but you run the added risk of overheating other items on the boards, Water will steam off before the temp gets high enough to do this!

[@throwbo]

@@jcondon1 I think if you dremel those cap cans flush with the top of the potting material you'll be able to gut them out and access the leads without having to touch the potting. Just solder them on to start and if the generator makes power then glue them down so they can't move.

[@jcondon1]

@@throwbo was thinking the same thing.

[@derekmarshall2169]

I think that with a Dremel tool or similar you could gouge out the potting and replace both capacitors. If you can get the potting out try and get Rubicon or similar type Japanese capacitors rated at 105 Deg C. Heat kills electrolytic capacitors and those brown caps look like they are made in China. I have fixed many PC power supplies and inverters just by replacing the caps. A dead giveaway for bad caps is if the cap top isnt 100% flat then the cap is junk. Judging by how dirty and full of junk that genny is it probably led to the early demise of the caps from overheating.

[@derekmarshall2169]

Hi James, i found this youtube video of a guy using boiling water to get rid of the potting. Its worth a try and seems to work ok. The three phase is rectified by a 3 phase rectifier and then smoothed out to DC by those brown caps. If the caps are faulty then too much ripple goes to the inverter causing the flickering and failure under heavier loads, My money would be on those caps. Here is the link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hZqzlmmcabSbbqc

[@jcondon1]

Yes, watched that video. Might give that a go.

[@jamesdougan8789]

@@jcondon1 i know you can remove hot glue gun glue with isopropyl alcohol 99% at room temp and with the other remarks from people that hot water works i wonder if its the heat thats works as pouring water on electronic components is not a good thing maybe use a hot air soldering station / heat gun at a distance control the heat it may lift the potting they use the isopropyl alcohol in repairing circuit boards to clean flux and the PCB`s in sonic cleaners or just with a brush it may also help lift the potting.. thanks for the great videos cheers

[@redneckbryon]

Good luck on finding what you need good thing it’s a small unit easy to store.

[@Moped-garage]

Shouldn't use the eco throttle when applying more than half load. This is what kills the inverter. Replaced a couple of inverters on these types of generator and wondering why it happened so spoke to an expert and he explained why. They need that rpm for the bigger loads. So using both of those heaters should have been off on the eco throttle or smart throttle as some call it.

[@jcondon1]

Yes if adding more then half a load at once then eco should be off. If ramping up in increments the eco is ok to to the rated load.

[@oldsranch]

I'd love to send you my EF600 to play with. Suitcase generators for the win!

[@rubusroo68]

hope you get it fixed it's a nice quiet unit & still sold

[@waynebrundidge206]

The bad looking Capacitor would be my guess for the bad inverter board. That capacitor is swollen, a sign of a bad capacitor. Deporting is something I have never done.

[@tarstarkusz]

Try cutting the cap off near the bottom and grab the leads from the inside for a new one. Anytime you see visible physical damage to a capacitor, it is almost certainly bad.

[@Bassguitarist1985]

James, I know everyone is telling you that the capacitors are bad but I can tell you from experience that inverter units fail on their input stage. If you have DC volts coming out of the outlet I bet you that half or multiple mosfets in the input stage have failed. This is indicated by the flickering light. The shorted mosfets are turning on and off very rapidly until the overload circuit protection turns on. Believe it or not the output stage is under the least amount of stress with an inverter. Those output transistors may very well be damaged as well including the drive circuitry. I have a series of videos where I repaired a very expensive samlex power inverter and I got lucky because one of the original engineers sent me parts to fix it but Yamaha is not very forthcoming with any of their schematics. Best of luck unpotting the resin. They may have specifically formulated it to where the temperature is so high before it breaks down that it could damage the board and it's intentionally done that way a lot of times because they don't want people servicing their pcbs and possibly copying the board schematic. It also allows them to keep the cost of their replacement inverter units very high. You should see the cost of an eu7000 Honda inverter module that is some serious mad money.

[@jcondon1]

Will make another video on it at some point. Want to measure the output at the outlets. I would tend to agree that DC is coming out based on what the space heater. That tells me most likely the 3 phase AC is getting rectified into DC but not properly inverted. Also want to test the single phase voltage output. The single phase orange wires feed the inverter circuity. I have a lead on a used inverter module so want to be 110% sure that its nothing else but the inverter.

[@Bassguitarist1985]

@@jcondon1 i think a new inverter module is the ticket. Chances are the mosfets have shorted on thus the DC is coming through. Looking forward to the next video!

[@jcondon1]

Well, I tested the old module and the positive part of the sine of the wave is basically DC and the negative part is AC, but gets distorted under load. Links to the pictures down below. The space heater element will glow under load but the fan not spin. The good news is I found the correct model year inverter module (used working condition) for an EF3000iSEB. My model is the EF3000iSE. Although all the connectors are the same, the inverter will not power up. I think it is waiting for the DC-DC boost converter to come online (which I do not have). Unfortunately I think I have to return that inverter module. Not able to find the pinout of the boost connector plug from the inverter. Was hoping to trick it into thinking the boost module was present. Back the the drawing board. Boost Module: drive.google.com/file/d/16aRxibyWWdORW7CfvIwlmd8gYHW7ZZwA/view?usp=sharing Oscilloscope Pics: drive.google.com/file/d/1bDtGsJjY7LiBHfhlyccVxP54FjcetK6g/view?usp=sharing drive.google.com/file/d/1LTTa6TV2xaQRXh8V-A58Jf-VeNEB-kgz/view?usp=sharing

[@Bassguitarist1985]

@@jcondon1 that stinks. Yeah no eay to get the pinouts. Its a long shot but maybe yamaha tech support can help

[@jcondon1]

@@Bassguitarist1985 cannot hurt

[@timlintemuth8860]

MICHIGAN would love to have somebody besides just a mechanic checking carburetor and valves to look at my Kipper ig3000. It starts it runs and can run 1500 w heater. But the eco does not step down the motor, and it just seems to now run rough and loud it never did that and I started it every two weeks. Unfortunately I didn't know you should let it run with a load I always let it run without. If anybody knows of a good electrician for generators maybe in combination with combustion in case that's the problem. I put a new carburetor on no change. Not sure if it's the stepper motor air filter fuel filter spark plug but I did not check the valves yet. Motor squeaky clean even put back the old carburetor as the new one did not change anything. Don't want to run this with it being so loud and shaky. If you know somebody I live smack-dab in the middle of Michigan I could sure use direction to somebody is knowledgeable as the gentleman who did such a wonderful job on this video.

[@philoso377]

I’d give the electrolyte power capacitors a short. It went through 3x rpm/60 charge discharge cycles per seconds under elevated temperature degrades sooner. Just look for electrical equivalent of equal form factor replacement. Capacitors with low ESR last much longer than others not. The second most suspects are power handling electronic devices (transistors and diodes) found with/without mounted on heat skin surfaces. The initial problem is how to turn the frozen puffy to free the circuit board for close inspection.

[@opticaltrace4382]

Do a Google for potting compound removal. There are several methods. All are a bit messy but it's certainly do able

[@jcondon1]

It is doable.

[@nosaltiesandrooshere7488]

👍 Danke fürs Hochladen! 👍 Thanks for uploading! 👍 Very good and beautiful, thank you! 👍 Sehr gut und schön, danke!

[@butler386]

wow you sure know how to test those things. I have trouble testing a battery. Great job and I would keep it for a while as you never know what might pop up. Thanks for the video's.

[@jcondon1]

I missed a few tests. Might have another go at it.

[@kerrygleeson4409]

Alway very interesting I learn something every time thanks for sharing James 😀

[@mikesbarn1858]

For safety I have a cheap box fan with a homemade cardboard funnel going to a dryer hose feeding outside. Position with muffler towards fan to blow out.

[@40arpent]

Ive been to a county warehouse before that used to be owned by a big time lawyer who was into classis cars. There was a system of pipes and flexible metal hoses coming from the ceiling that you could clamp on to cars to run them inside safely. It was awesome to see.

[@throwbo]

@@40arpent Fire stations usually have hoses like that so that they can run the engines indoors.

[@Mikesorrento3344]

Nice video. I have come to the conclusion that inverter generators are not a good value. Unless one needs grid quality sine wave output, go with a traditional, AVR generator. I’ve analyzed the sine wave output from a Honda, Yamaha etc AVR output generator, and it’s good enough for most sensitive electronics. I’ve seen too many inverter failures in machines and the inverter replacement cost too prohibitive.

[@jcondon1]

There is something to be said about keeping it simple. I like the Storm Responder Generators for that reason. Not even an AVR. Very little to go wrong except run out of oil. I think they kept it a little too simple by eliminating the oil sensor on that model. Brushes generators usually produce power that is clean enough. Stay away from brushless though.

[@throwbo]

@@jcondon1 Storm Responders remind me a lot of the old Coleman Powermates that had Briggs motors. The gen head is different (round instead of square) but the rest of the generator is set up very similar. The Powermates were also very simple. There must be some story because the resemblance is too close to be a coincidence.

[@derekmarshall2169]

Eagerly awaiting your next video on this generator, i am sure you will outdo yourself again!

[@jcondon1]

I hope so, would be much easier without the potting.

[@SLeslie]

I am sorry but based on the the evidence that the light was lit with some acceptable brightness and that it did not lost a lot of brightness when you switched the heater on suggests that the evaluation result that the genset cannot supply enough power to operate the heater is faulty. This proves that the output waveform is distorted to the point that the proper magnetic field cannot build up inside the fan motor to turn the blades. I think the fan motor most likely is a shaded pole induction motor that requires a AC supply with proper frequency and balance. A light bulb will operate happily with just DC supply as well as with AC and it does not care about the frequency and the balance as far as voltage with proper RMS value is provided. I think the output waveform would have worth a check with an oscilloscope.

[@jcondon1]

I agree. And have actually done that. Video will be publish in a few weeks.

[@jesterr7133]

Given the value of a functioning unit of that generator, I would definitely hold on to that one and see if you can find a parts machine, or another one that needs an engine. I would at least give it a few months and see if you come across something.

[@jcondon1]

Still have it and working on a solution.

[@garbleduser]

I would be happy to remove those caps from the potting and replace them for you. I will even cover return shipping!

[@jcondon1]

Thanks. Working on a part 2. I think a couple MOSFETS are bad (also maybe the capacitors). Already sent it to a subscriber to work some magic with any luck.

[@garbleduser]

@@jcondon1 I am glad someone can help! If the MOSFETs are out that is going to be hell with the potting...

[@dougiegPR]

Any recommendations on Yamaha SC2000I gen. that only produces power for 8 seconds after startup them nothing (engine runs perfect)

[@TerryLawrence001]

One more thought, Is there any use for the obviously very noisy 3 phase, 220v power?

[@grahamek86]

You should scope the output AC outlet and look at the voltage.

[@akawireguy1197]

With nothing to lose maybe tear those two capacitors off, solder wires onto the connections, and solder new capacitors in. Locate them to a new position if that solves the problem.

[@pa6390]

I noticed some very rusty looking ground wires. Mouse piss will do that. FYI..

[@richb4099]

Typical inverter issue. Cost is ridiculous for any inverter module. I just looked at a Honda EU3000. Blown cap on inverter module. Actually not that bad for a new one at under $700. I did not remove the inverter section and would not even attempt to repair it by replacing any cap. Gave the customer a price to replace inverter and sent it back to him. I fix lots of generators and welding equipment. The inverter equipment is always the same story. Too expensive for the parts, modules, circuit boards. The stuff is mostly throw away. Here’s a tip for you.....Never use a NON-Resistor spark plug in an inverter/generator. The RF can interfere with the inverter modules proper operation. This is no BS.....Had a machine sent to me in a basket, all apart. I replaced the inverter module and it still didn’t work. 3 phase input power from power unit was good. Was able to speak to someone from the machines builder and he pointed me right to the issue. A non resistor spark plug was in the machine. A very expensive mistake by the machines owner !

[@robertpeters9438]

Couldent it be rewired to 3 phase output for voltage regulator and inverter?

[@deankoch7305]

Those space heaters have a position switch that turns off the heater if it is not straight up and down. Set it down on flat surface and try it again.