Yamaha MONTAGE vs Roland FANTOM - Deep Dive [ OLD VERSION ]

[@KierDarby]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qYfKaXuQh9iLd8U I have uploaded a new version of this video, with the voiceover volume level fixed, and some factual errors corrected.

[@outsidethein]

This is EXACTLY the kind of comparison I was looking for! Thank you so much for making this--it is SO much more useful than any of the other comparisons I have found!! I especially like your use of the inset magnified screens to show the differences between the two interfaces, not to mention the explanations of their differences. Superbly done!!!

[@KierDarby]

Many thanks! I’m really happy that people like you are finding my comparison useful and interesting.

[@SunlightOfTheSpirit]

Great information, thank you. I have a Fantom 8. My heart sunk at 38:49 when you went from the Montage back to the Fantom. It truly is a joyless experience working on the Fantom. It's a hard slog and one that has had me on the ropes more often than not. I'm sad now, the Montage seems to do what I thought the Fantom would.

[@KierDarby]

I actually had an argument with a forum user over what the Fantom lower-button-row colours mean - he was adamant that Orange did not mean ‘muted’ and I was just relying on the manual for my info, as I couldn’t say for sure based on my colourblindness. Roland were uninterested in making tweaks when I brought it to their assertion several years ago :(

[@plofstof]

Thank you so much for a really useful comparison. Most of the reviews out there so superficial. This kind of structural analysis is exactly what I was looking for.

[@KierDarby]

Glad it was useful - those structural differences are exactly what differentiates them as far as I’m concerned.

[@sonic2000gr]

This is the most amazingly detailed and superbly produced video comparison. Thank you so much! My choice of Montage was correct 😊

[@KierDarby]

Thank you! I hope you found it a balanced video and came to your own conclusion

[@DarkSideofSynth]

Amazingly thorough work! Very valuable stuff. The real deal from real experience.

[@KierDarby]

Thank you!

[@trstack]

Thanks for the in depth review of the two units workflow. I was using software synths with an RD-2000 for several years and recently moved to a Montage M8x. The Montage UI makes more sense to the way I work, and the updated M hardware and software makes it even easier. The GEX poly aftertouch on the M8x is superb. I prefer it to the Roland PHA-50 action on the RD-2000 and Fantom 8. If you don’t have to move the beast, I highly recommend checking out the Montage M8x.

[@KierDarby]

I’ve yet to play GEX, as Yamaha don’t seem to be able to provide any Montage M stock to UK and Europe, but I’m looking forward to giving it a try.

[@jPaulofe]

Great comparison video Kier!!! Thank you for taking time to do this fantastic job! I've owned a MODX6 and a Fantom-06, which are both sub-sets of the flagship models Montage and Famtom, but lots of what I've seen here also applied to those lower end models. Unfortunately I had to sell both, so maybe I can get a Montage M in the future 🙂

[@KierDarby]

The MODX and Fantom series are both hugely impressive synthesizers for the money, considering how little is added to the flagships for the vast increase in price. Good luck for the future!

[@jPaulofe]

@@KierDarby Thank you ! you too!

11:03 - You can use the Scene Chain function on the Fantom for that, so you can arrange your scenes in any order you want.

[@KierDarby]

While the scene chain feature is valuable, it’s not quite as flexible as Live Set, in that you can’t skip around scenes in a freeform fashion as you can with Live Set.

[@ricardofireball]

@@KierDarby Scene chain would be great if it allowed others parameters to be stored instead of just the next scene.... Roland being Roland as always, and limiting what could be a great implementation...

[@timhughes4698]

Agreed, I was going to mention that too

[@KierDarby]

FWIW the updated version of this video covers scene chains

[@Rick-Morrill]

Wow! I learned a lot about my FANTOM while watching this.

[@KierDarby]

That's great - I had hoped that this comparison would also act as an educational tool for existing owners:)

Thank you very much for this really deep comparison! It was very informative! :)

[@KierDarby]

Happy to be of service!

[@ShaighJosephson]

I'm glad that I bought the Montage after you pointed out all the Fantom's workarounds and conditions... Unbelievable that Roland deliberately duped everyone with the Fantom having 256 voice polyphony while leaving out that they weren't stereo... Bottom line, you proved to me that I made the right choice... Thank you... 🙂

[@KierDarby]

I’m glad your choice is validated :) Montage just feels more ‘designed’ rather than ‘thrown together’ to me.

[@tonylancer7367]

Man, do I love this corner of KZbin, this was an excellent video Kier, saw this on FB and thought I should watch this, and I'm not disappointed! 5:58 (Montage Performances vs Fantom Scenes) I finally understand why there are so many of the same sounds with different variations on the Roland (80s Brs 1 to 45 for example) 15:28 (Fantom engines) I'd argue that the Fantom probably only has two distinct engines, V-Piano and Zen-Core, with ABM and ACB being an extension of the Zen-Core engine and Zen-Core being an upgraded version of the SuperNatural engine. The model expansions also use the Zen-Core engine with the waveforms but Roland will not tell you that 😉. I do think that with the re-designed Fantom (and Zen-Core engine), it is a missed opportunity for Roland to have really improved the "partial" system, because as it currently stands, acoustic instruments will have varying levels of realism but pianos will suffer the most. 1:05:20 I agree completely, the Roland's MIDI implementation is quite flexible and I think combined with the ability to trigger internal and external sounds from a MIDI module/keyboard or a computer, it does make the routing options almost endless. Just finished watching the video (watched it twice, 'twas that good!) and it's quite interesting what philosophies each company follows, it looks to me that Yamaha looks to be more orderly, detailed and precise while Roland is a little bit all over the place in detail but still powerful. One thing that used to bother me quite a bit (not so much now but still) is class compliant USB audio, because the plugins available on the iOS/iPadOS platform are arguably much better than what the boards have. Want to run a modelled piano on your Fantom-0 because there's no V-Piano? No problem, connect your iPhone and use Pianoteq, done, but will probably never happen.

[@KierDarby]

Of course you’re absolutely right about Fantom only reeeeally having two engines, but for the purposes of the video I just went with the engine names as they’re noted on Fantom, without going into toooo much technical detail. Glad you enjoyed the video, thanks for sticking with it - it’s not often I get comments about content at the end of such a long video!

[@davidknight754]

ACB is not Zencore at all. It’s circuit based and very processor intensive which is why it can only be used in Zone 1. The Fantom has more than two engines because of this. The Model expansions (which I’m sure people are now confusing with the newly added ACB models) are Zencore like you were saying.

[@tonylancer7367]

@@davidknight754 Yup, you are definitely right by saying it is processor intensive, but to not go into much detail, it's just a more detailed algorithm with characteristics of the instrument. Zencore but better. 😄

[@davidknight754]

@@tonylancer7367 It’s not Zencore, period. ACB was created 5 years or so earlier than Zencore. Zencore is just the sample based PCM 5080 tech with new tech. ACB doesn’t have an ounce of Zencore in it.

[@slightlytime8130]

Thanks a lot for this superb comparison! It's really worth watching to the end 🙂 I've owned a Montage M8x for a few months and I am very happy with it. It's a phantastic instrument. Although I've never played a Roland Fantom I found your video very balanced on both sides.

[@KierDarby]

Thanks for the comment, especially your mention of balance - while I do prefer Montage, there are without doubt some things where Fantom does a better job, and I’m glad that wasn’t lost in the video.

[@slightlytime8130]

No, the balance didn't get lost at all, in my opinion. Moreover your comparision was very detailed and transparent - which I appreciated very much.

[@Vertigo504]

Excellent video. Very clear explanation of differences between the two units. Well presented and easy to follow. Subscribed!

[@KierDarby]

Many thanks! :)

[@edgaba]

Wow! Great super detailed video. Both keyboards have their strengths however I find the Montage/MODX to be the better choice though is a bit confusing at first. When it comes to the sequencer the Fantom seems to be less confusing and the piano roll is useful, I wish the montage had one. I like the sound extensions for the Fantom specially the Juno 106 and I find that architecture easier to use than sound designing in the montage. All in all sound wise etc. if I only could have one I would choose the montage. Could you make a video or do you have a video that explains clearly how to turn your own patterns into arps? Or just explaining in depth how to use the arps. To me that’s the most confusing part of the montage. I would only use it to trigger drums and percussions since I find many of the included arps unusable. I would like to make my own patterns and save them as arps to be used with any performance I want without having to to dive into a thousand menus. Thank you for your video.

[@KierDarby]

Thanks for your comments. A good starting point for converting patterns to arps is Narfsounds tutorial here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aJasfIaEmJ6JbLMsi=Z9SAetPeCscOnA_H

[@edgaba]

Thank you for the link. I wanted to mention though a bit of topic, that I’ve been very impressed with the Akai MPC 61 as a company and how they keep putting updates and upgrades to their workstations. Their sequencers are solid for both audio and MIDI and it’s truly as close as anything has gotten to a DAW. They are also coming out soon with a free update MPC 3 that looks amazing. And Roland, Yamaha and Korg could learn a thing or two from the way they do their updates and the way they are trying to make everything intuitive. I’ve been waiting forever for an update to the Korg Nautilus ( that system is so cluttered and faulty) The Fantom is a joy to sequence and jot down ideas and the Montage/Modx is also powerful though confusing it took me a while to understand the sequencer. All workstations need a s a must have a way to export audio in the background in any format and resolution and a way to export Stems in the background. (The Akai does) anyway they all sound good my favorite is Yamaha.

[@yashnu]

@@edgaba Akai definitely earned its place in the Keyboard Workstation space, with a splash too.

[@Mat-q5z]

Thank you very much for creating this. I did return my Fantom in 2022 after 3 months. This device does not know what it wants to be. The UI is not consistent, neither are the Synth plugins usable within an adequate UI. Yamaha is far ahead with their usability, considering the m8x. But that‘s just my honest opinion. I got a mint Fantom G8 (back to the good old workstation times) and might set an M8x next to it soon.

[@KierDarby]

I have taken the decision to retire my own Fantom 8 and replace it with an M8x. For the most part, it’s been a great swap, although the on-screen UI colours on Montage M are a big regression from Montage - VU meters are very difficult to monitor, and some on/off switches like keyboard control are really difficult to distinguish on/off states at a glance. I’ve raised a suggestion with Yamaha to do something about it, even if it’s adding an option to use the original Montage colour scheme, because anything would be better than the current colours.

[@Mat-q5z]

@@KierDarby Hey! Thank you very much for answering. Interesting to read about your decision and thoughts. I realized quite an increase of offers of F8 Instruments on 2nd Hand Market places after the first launch. The dream of a real old school Workstation came true with the G8, as stated above. I mean, the list of weak points in the F8 goes on....aftertouch needs far too mich force for this 1 milimeter of range, housing super scratch sensitive...sounds are mediocre...this does not improve by the year 2000ish Vpiano library... gave all that Feedback to R via my dealer. The F8 seems to be built to be a DAW Extension, but for that use case there are already enough good boards there for a fraction of the price. Currently, the only superior device in terms of sound and haptics ist the FP90X...which does for what it's meant. Being an ePiano that creates goose bumps. I play it and it kept me from getting a hybrid kawai. The only room for improvement might be to give it's successor the goodies from their high end lx9. But that's enough of ranting :) For the Fantom Line...R really needs to wrap their head around to what they want to be, except from a 30kg DAW peripheral with lots of sound LEDs. Even this is done better now by the m8x. I do Like Rs heritage (with my Jupiter80, JD800, G8, FP90x and almost every DAWless device from TR, MC, SP, Aira and so on) but they need another bold statement and adorable workhorse for real creatives. This means going forward with exceptionally good user interface software. This went completeley lost, check the G8 or the Jupiter 80....they even do have screen savers...I mean back in the days the had budget to make something right. "Modeless" should not mean "close to useless" (not mentioning that the housing of the m8x is almost empty in terms of hardware If you check that teardown video of the synthstuff Guy on youtube :) - but the m8x delivers). Lets create on with what we have and let the market rule.

[@NostalKeys]

The best comparison video between two keyboards I’ve already seen!

[@benstat]

An excellent overview. Thank you! Liked and subscribed. Keep 'em coming.

[@KierDarby]

Thanks for the sub!

[@srikrshnachaitanyaswami3625]

Outstanding detailed video. Thank you very much.

[@KierDarby]

Most welcome!

[@XPJV]

Fantom EX contains V-PIANO & SuperNATURAL tone engines + V-Drums engine. + analog behavior synth engine + massive sample based entire Roland library + countless expansions... All combined is a very expansive tool..! (Over $10K value) All packed in a very affordable price - $4K.

[@ProckGnosis]

Excellent analysis and comparison. Sad to hear the Fantom scene mgt system still requires you to save edited versions of sounds if you don't want your individual sound edits to mess up another scene that might use the same sound. I have a Roland FA-06, and it has the same problem, and I was fairly disappointed when I finally understood the behavior. The newer Fantom-6 EX is about 3 times what I paid for the FA-06. Given the touted increase in power and price, I was sure the Fantom-6 had a better workflow for scene mgt, but apparently it doesn't. Ouch.

[@KierDarby]

I've had a fair few comments on other platforms saying that people prefer the Fantom separate-scenes-and-tones approach to the Montage everything-is-performance design, so I guess it's horses for courses, but for my part I find the Montage system to suit me better.

[@gretareinarsson7461]

I LOOOVE my Fantom❤❤❤

[@KierDarby]

I love mine too! But I prefer my Montage :)

[@nitishcheriyan4422]

@@KierDarbyI love the electronic sounds of Roland - they have a rich, bottom character - that signature roland sound. Yamaha is the better one for acoustic and it’s signature fm stuff.

[@RobertZ-sn4ms]

Before I will mention some constructive criticism, your video is of very high production value. Excellent Organization not only in the material content, but also how visually you align to the organize topic content, You have a great voice for the oral narration you could easily apply this talent for professional recordings and make lots of money. However your mixing volume is bit problematic. Since your voice is of a gentler quality sometimes the beautifully recorded sounds of your synthesizers drawn out your voice here and there. So to bringing up a volume on your narration or provide some eq-uing in this specific areas (whether graphic or parametric) could do the trick. The reason I am bringing all this out is because when your voice disappears beneath the sound waves of your synthesizers Its easy to loose focal objective on topics you cover, and since they are complex the mind can easily get lost. Cheers Electronic Music Composer and Pianist ObeeLektro.

[@KierDarby]

Thanks for your critique - I have adjusted my recording settings since I produced this video following comments like yours, and hopefully my voice is a little higher in the mix - my ‘Demystifying Montage and MODX’ tutorial series are using the new settings. If you take a look at a handful of those, hopefully you’ll find them to work better. Thanks again.

[@KierDarby]

I’ve actually uploaded a new version of this video, with fixed audio and some factual errors corrected: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qYfKaXuQh9iLd8U

[@matthewgaines10]

If it wasn’t for its antiquated screen (small and non-touch), I’d pick a Kurzweil K2700 in a Fantom vs Montage contest. Kurzweil needs to up their game to play in this arena. Between the two, I’d go Montage M largely on the Fantom polyphony issue alone.

[@CoolJacketCoder]

Excellent video! Thank you very much!

[@KierDarby]

Glad you found it useful :)

[@orebelo]

What wonderful video!!!

[@KierDarby]

Many thanks!!

[@dr.doomandgloom]

Great video. If the Montage M had a real sequencer I would go on a bread and water diet to save the money to get it. But it doesn't. The explanation is that the "sequencer" is meant to be a scratch pad for a DAW. Any workstation can be that. How far is this thing going to be from the DAW. It's not like it's some ultra light keyboard that you can sling over your shoulder and head to the hills with a power station for inspiration. I need a good sequencer because I don't have a DAW. I just sequence the songs and go to a studio to upload the audio. It's down to either the K2700 or the Fantom now.

[@KierDarby]

Fair enough, if you want a full-fledged on board sequencer, Montage comes up short. For me personally, that’s not a problem as I’d always prefer to record into a DAW, and I think that is how Montage is designed.

[@dr.doomandgloom]

@@KierDarby And that is the point. The thing weighs a ton so if you have a DAW it's probably sitting right in front of it. You're not lugging it around wherever you go so it doesn't even need a pseudo sequencer. If they went to the trouble of putting a sequencer on the Montage M then I feel that, as the flagship of the fleet and costing so much, it should have been able to fully manipulate midi notes, events and sequences. A few more dollars wouldn't hurt at this price point for me. I'm going to subscribe because I enjoy your thorough analysis.

[@KierDarby]

@vernejacobs6019 thank you :)

[@davidknight754]

Some corrections. The JD-800 model expansion is Zencore based and therefore can be loaded into any of the 16 zones. It’s not ACB.

[@KierDarby]

I tried to reflect the correction in the video description and the chapter title, but I’m aware there are a handful of other things that need minor corrections, so I’ll probably do a follow-up video to address them all.

[@SunlightOfTheSpirit]

True, but the JD specific effects only work in Zone 1

[@nellysagundo6634]

Thanks for another great video! I am a fully committed Yamaha synth player ❤ (Modx7+ + YC61)

[@KierDarby]

Great instruments 👍🏻

[@Keyboardnut99]

I have used and owned , both sold the Montage and MODX still have 06 and 6 Fantom , currently using Nords and a Korg Nautilus which I feel has the edge on both of these . However no one keyboard does it all so always end up with too much gear. Great video by the way!

[@paulmapp8306]

very comprehensive. I have the Fantom 7 - which Ive had since release. It suits me live, as I play in a synth heavy project, I design my own sounds I use across several songs/scenes, and I use a couple of external synth modules (A virus Ti - multi timbral and a peak for analogue filter) . It just works in that regards - and I dont come across polyphony issues as Im not sequencing or layering many sounds (a couple maybe or a split) and I only have 10 fingers. I use an RD2000 as well - I love the piano action but cant use Fantom 8 (same bed) as a one stop board (in place of both RD and F7) due to its weight. HOWEVER, when I stop playing live (were all getting older, our guitarist now in his 70s, ad my back doesn't hold up much lol so wont be that long) It will likely change it. I have analogue and VA synths at home that dont go out live (3rd wave, prophet 6, OB6, Muse, Iridium keys) - and I wont need Fantoms live UI or synth capabilities ( I may miss the Jupiter 8 ACB). At that point Ill swap it out for a Montage M8+ --- poly AT and better acoustic sounds. Unfortunately the Montage 8s keybed isnt a patch on the Fantom8/RD for Piano playing..... so Ill either have to keep the RD for that - OR, I will consider moving that on and picking up a Kawai MP11se which has the best piano action bed of any non actual piano. I will add,I have documented on forums the polyphony of both ACB and ABM models - it is dependant on which model your using so not easy to remember lol.

[@KierDarby]

I have an M8x arriving in the next few days, I will certainly make some direct comparisons to the F8 keybed, as I'm very curious to see if it's as good as many have said.

[@paulmapp8306]

@@KierDarby the M8+s bed is fine - its a weighted board. its NOT hammer action though, and its NOT graduated, and it doesnt have escapement. These are important to me for Piano playing. M8+ is piano enough like if you dont play as a pianist and its light enough to play synths leads on (Hammond techniques might be pushing it). i cant give up the hammer, escapement or graduation though for my piano bed.

[@KierDarby]

I understand that it's not graded - traditionally the Yamaha 8's have always had a balanced action, right from the original Motif, but my understanding that it is a hammer action though. I'm not much of a piano player, though I can get around the PHA-50 without a problem, and I am feeling 50-50 over whether I'll end up keeping the M8x or going for the M7 in the end. I guess I'll find out soon enough...

[@SamStormsKBD]

Great video! We need more workflow videos like this and some less sound comparisons IMO. I like Roland's workflow, having owned a Juno Di and DS now, but they still seem to lack some modern sounding *sigh*

[@KierDarby]

I think that most studio owners would be at home with the Fantom workflow with separate tones and scenes - so I’m not saying it’s bad per se, but to my programmer’s brain, the Montage design makes so much more sense.

[@CybreSmee]

Excellent, thank you

[@KierDarby]

Glad you enjoyed it :)

[@narfsounds]

That’s a very detailed comparison! The JD-800 is a standard model. It’s not ACB so it can load in any Zone. The JD-800 has 2 sets of multi-effects which I find better than the standard Fantom effects. Having more than 2 instances of the JD-800 will grey out the 2nd set of multi-effects.

[@narfsounds]

Yeah how polyphony was declared in the spec sheet on the Fantom has been a bit shady.

[@narfsounds]

22:00 spot on! The most frustrating aspect of the Fantom.

[@narfsounds]

It seems that Roland expects its users to program sounds at the tone level and not the partial level which probably explains why there are gazzillion synth brass sounds on board.

[@KierDarby]

Waveform selection is horrendous - what were they thinking??

[@KierDarby]

re the JD-800, I'm looking for a way to add a note to the video without having to re-upload the whole thing

[@ElJuloProduction]

Excellent job mate

[@KierDarby]

Thank you!

[@Seekthetruth3000]

How about Korg Kronos? Great demo.

[@KierDarby]

I'm afraid I'm not a Kronos user... purely by accident actually, as nobody had Kronos stock when I bought my first workstation. Perhaps I should pick one up on eBay and do a comparison...

[@BigMikeyG09]

Thank you

[@SunlightOfTheSpirit]

Roland won't, and haven't went near the workflow or OS over the 4 years I've had my Fantom. They haven't listened to a single suggestion so don't hold your breath if you think they will put some hours into 'correcting' some poor, poor decisions. If you want another novelty legacy synth for £150 a pop, then the Fantom is the one for you. Be warned though, you can only assign a few parameters onboard for automation as the MIDI isn't fully accessible. I've spent the entire day using it to control Ableton's stock instruments and some Analogesque VST's that are easier to program so it essential has turned into a huge controller. And don't get me started on the acoustic drum quality and the lack of patch effects that you can add to a single zone. One insert effect per patch, one. The Roland clan won't say a bad word about the board either, you get silenced if you have any dissent on the forums.

[@KierDarby]

I have noticed that wilful denial of any problems with Fantom by Roland fans, which is a bit odd. The Yamaha community is quite different, even if Yamaha are almost as bad as Roland when it comes to implementing suggestions from us mere mortals.

[@ricardofireball]

All that you mention is very true unfortunately, i have suffered all that also!!! If you try and say something about the flaws you'll just have a ton of hate directed at you! It's difficult for a platform to evolve if you don't discuss it's flaws, but anyway, Roland also doesn't listen... Also no one mentions the quality of samples, in Roland it's the same 40 year old samples used again and again, short low quality samples (for today standards) for most of ZenCore stuff, specially the acoustic sounds. All this said, i like many things about my Fantom, some sounds and some of the functions, yet i am everyday frustrated how it could easily be so much better with simples OS tweaks.... I become a Roland user many years ago and still am one based on loyalty, if based on reason i would have jumped sides long ago.

[@xp50player]

The way patches in the Fantom are not saved within the multi is the way all other workstation keyboards in history have worked up until the Montage, not an outlier.

[@KierDarby]

True enough, but I think that the scene/tone vs performance comparison is a valid difference to be observed when comparing Fantom with Montage

[@quantumeseboy]

What?! Fantom trigger pads aren't velocity sensitive?! The ancient Fantom X had velocity sensitive pads back in... 20 years ago! I had a budget Kurzweil model(PC3LE) which had velocity sensitive pads and nice aftertouch keyboard. I'd much rather get MPC Key 61 than Fantom, for a lot less money.

[@KierDarby]

It does seem a somewhat glaring omission.

[@matthewgaines10]

I own a MPC Key 61. It’s great for creation but terrible for live performance. Fantom and Montage are much better for live performance.

[@quantumeseboy]

@@matthewgaines10 I'm into creation mainly.

[@revargg]

...а есть платные саунд пакеты для фантома? можем обменятся (один к одному)

[@m.a.pourkhessalian6508]

Thank you.

[@KierDarby]

Most welcome

[@Bruce.-Wayne]

Got my Fantom 8 from sweetwater 5 months ago and I havent scratch the surface yet.....Lol....I'm patient though...thanks for this comparison

[@KierDarby]

There’s a lot to dig into - I’m still doing so (even to the point of an embarrassing oops when describing the CHAIN button on Fantom, which isn’t for what I said at all…)

[@Helldriver2010]

This Video before half a Year and I don't bought my Fantom 06. At Start you think "Hightech", "Sharp Screen", "All in One Scene" and so on. Then over Weeks and Month I lost my Mind. I like your "prehistoric" in the "Partial-Wavebrowser", exact what I thought "this can't be real in 2024". Multiple Times I furious Shut down the F06 with no Lust to "Save multiple edited Tones One by One" before Save the Scene. That is a no Go. What I miss in the Video are the FX-Section. This thing upset me really. MONTAGE has 2 Insert-FX for each Part, absolut variable to connect (serial/parallel/each Elements to A or B). I absolute couldn't believe that the Fantom only has ONE MFX (sometimes 2 FX but not free selectable) for each Zone. Then the IFX1/2 is for then whole Szene (MONTAGE as I said per Part) and very less flexible connectable. Even worse is the Fact that the MASTER FX-Section (M.COMP/M.EQ/TFX) is NOT saved with the Szene but in the Overall-System. So you can't (shouldn't) edit the Master-FX Section cause ALL EXISTING SCENES following these settings. Then on MONTAGE you see if/that an Element is playing, on Fantom there is NO blinky at ALL (PAD-Mode Partial/Sw and do it by Ear). Why there is no Partial-Mixer ? The Single-Tone Button (and Function) is exact like all other Scenes. All together this is THE most chaotic Firmware (and IT's only Software and therefore lame INGENIEUR's) I have ever seen. Crazy Fails : "Save Tones separate beside a Scene" - "Cruel Partial NoFun Wave-Dial" - "don't see which Partials are playing" - "FX-Section Master-FX takes Effect on the whole System and has to Save separate" - "IFX1/2 MONTAGE per Part, Fantom per Scene" - "no Way to Save ONE COMPLETE PROJECT/perhaps it's possible but not without Bookkeeping" I could write endless on ... the FANTOM is such a disappointment in Management.

[@medidec]

I love my Kronos, my Montage, and my Fantom. But ever since I got to test the Montage M8x for a week, I’ve been seriously hit with GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome). I’m saving every penny to make this beast mine. 僕はKronosとMontage、それにFantomが大好きです。でも、Montage M8xを1週間試した時から、僕は完全に Gear Acquisition Syndrome にやられてしまいました。このモンスターを自分のものにするために、毎円貯めています。

[@KierDarby]

I’ve got an M8x on order, but the more I learn about my original Montage, which I absolutely love, the more I question the need for the M… but I’ll endure the evaluation period before I make a final decision ;)

[@jumpingman8160]

My vote goes to the Kurzweil K2700 😅

[@muuroonggeooffrey246]

7:33 you need to give it a new name, otherwise it will merge the original data.

[@KierDarby]

Not sure I follow - did I not increment the number to save a new tone?

[@muuroonggeooffrey246]

@@KierDarby at least you don't change the name at 7:26, I just double checked

[@KierDarby]

@@muuroonggeooffrey246No, but that’s the point of that segment of the video, showing that tones are not unique to scenes, and edits to tones in one scene will affect any other scenes that use the same tones.

[@muuroonggeooffrey246]

@@KierDarby it's just a different way to think. Roland gives us many slots, we give slots a tone, scenes recall slots and collective them as a live set. I don't think it is a problem, just think like a programmer, like you are using an old machine (this is no doubt an old machine, it uses fat32)

[@SunlightOfTheSpirit]

30:33 Unlike the Fantom which you can't and it is SOOOOOOOOO FRUSTRATING

[@KierDarby]

I must confess, I only really discovered Control Assign quite late in my Montage ownership, and it’s a revelation (I’d been assigning everything manually before). I do wish Fantom had something even slightly similar, because it’s so, so good.

[@KierDarby]

I’ve also started a new video series looking at individual Montage features. I’ve got a slightly less hurried look at Control Assign here kzbin.info/www/bejne/aHvapqylerp-aM0

[@Cringing_Cranium]

wtf was Roland thinking? This was their chance to move ahead and do it for half the price. But no. These are way to expensive. Both are out of the everyday expense and into the studio with great funds, category which i s a silly move on their part considering DAWs and plugins. Roland also wants you to pay for using their stuff after you have already paid for the machine. What a joke. It doesn't matter how great it appears to be upfront. They are trying to turn you into a commodity. Eat the rich, there is no cake.

[@KierDarby]

Both are very expensive, but I think that the market can clearly take the prices, given the number of Montage and Fantom units we can see in the wild. I do agree that Roland missed the target in many areas with Fantom - the aftertouch response and Intel-only DAW integration being prime examples.

[@WonderCorriere]

Fantom 😍