Yang Chengfu: Comparisons of Four Disciples' Forms

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From top left, clockwise: Fu Zhongwen, Dong Ying Jie, Zheng Manqing (Chen Man Ching), and Yang Zhenduo (son of Yang Chengfu and grandfather of Yang Jun).
Fu Zhongwen, prominent disciple of YCF, sets the pace here; all the others are slowed down or sped up to sync with his steps. Of course, CMC only had the short 37 form, so not all of his movements are here. Others shortened some parts of the form so occasionally these videos fade out momentarily.

[@tonbonthemon]

See the new version here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bX3Nmnpjp7yBpZY

[@galenleung9556]

Fantastic idea putting his four top-notch followers together! If possible, it'd be great to see his eldest son Yang Sau Chung's video juxtaposed here with them too. Appreciated.

[@elliehagler9140]

Thank you for doing this, this is absolutely a treasure!

[@ap2372]

Thank you! You are doing a great service to humanity, this is a masterpiece to preserve this wonderful art!

[@tonbonthemon]

Because there was apparently some confusion elsewhere, I want to just put it out there that originally, the performances here do not sync up so neatly. I have the adjusted the speed of each clip step-by-step with Fu as the reference point; all other clips are matched to his pace by identifying each of his foot steps, then splitting the others' performances (by foot step) and adjusting their speed such that the steps sync up. If you look closely, you may notice the speed/framerate changing in those other clips except for Fu's. Edit: There has also lately been some interesting posts regarding who was and was not a disciple. Of course, there is also stuff regarding who is worth even being included here. Hopefully everyone is aware that the facts are not as clear cut as we would like, and that CMA culture is full of gossip, rumors etc. It is not worth arguing about.

[@GilesHartop]

although it looks nice reality these old men would have been beaten

[@tonbonthemon]

​@@GilesHartopinteresting

[@GilesHartop]

@@tonbonthemon seriously do you think this can save someones life?

[@tonbonthemon]

@@GilesHartop interesting question 🤔

[@tonbonthemon]

@@GilesHartop Do you practice Tai Chi or something else?

[@stephenshackleton6282]

Thanks for putting this together. Great watch🙏

[@madogblue]

Fantastic. You left of the CMC ending that matched the others, but still really appreciate all the effort.

[@waymanw69]

Yang Cheung and Fu Zhongwen forms are what I practice. Their form is exactly what was taught to me by my Great Grandmaster and Grandmastet. Chen Man Ching form is essential far different than Yang family formations (not just in movements, but in steps). Thanks for illustrating the comparison of the 4 forms. It was a treat.

[@kenmillman7729]

Excellent job! this is really cool to see!

[@alanweaver9104]

Well done! I look forward to many hours of study!

[@kaanapalibaby]

Excellent work.

[@RTCCC]

Great editing.... and comparison.

[@peterjaimez1619]

This is fantastic, I would like to point that Master Cheng Man Ching is doing is 37 movement form, with fewer movements. The differences are there, and you can see that they have a common origin. Very, very interesting. Comparison of "Snake Creeps Down" would be enlightening. Cheers

[@taojones]

Well done!

[@tombouie]

Thks & tai chi is truely an internal art & looks very different externally on each master.

[@ShorelineTaiChi]

Nice job. There is a lot of confusion with some of these movements.

[@winmajistyplanet9879]

Thank You 謝謝

[@josianeruffierlanche1833]

Many thanks. This is precious ! Have you done the same for the rest of the 108 form? That would be fantastic, especially for the last moves. 🙏☯️

[@tonbonthemon]

I am in the process of making a video with the full form, comparing Yang to Wu, Hao, and Sun styles.

[@thomaskirkebranner5225]

@@tonbonthemonare you making one with the same four master to continue the Yang 108? Your video is awesome but only the first half of the long form!

[@tonbonthemon]

@@thomaskirkebranner5225 Perhaps! I have a few other comparison videos in the works.

[@thomaskirkebranner5225]

Awesome. I shall stay tuned :)

[@pierrebarthelemy610]

Merci!

[@clarencegibbons6599]

Very nice music.

[@dsrussell]

I am curious as to where you found the CMC clip as he looks much younger there than in any clips I have seen previously.

[@lindenblock]

The CMC video shown here is the last of the full form videos that was made of him. It was filmed in NYC by Ken Van Sickle to serve as a teaching reference tool.

[@iflotaichi]

Nice video, thanks for making it. I like them all, the Dong master is the most powerful, though Fu Zhongwen is way older than the rest. The yang family master is very technical and also lovely tai chi, but nowhere near the power of Tung/Dong. I don't really understand CM Chings tai chi.

[@cheungken7779]

I agreed with you

[@cheungken7779]

Master Dong is more details than others

[@pingcheunglau2841]

當年師父請得傅鍾文師伯公南來香港，有幸得傅老師指導推手，只覺得他象一石磨………轉瞬已30多年。

[@abudaudwang7929]

Yang Zhen Duo, Fu Zhon Wen y el del ángulo superior derecho los verdaderos maestros del estilo Yang a pesar de sus edades que ya pasaban los 90 años a diferencia del otro advenedizo de 71 allí en ese vídeo que prácticamente hacia la forma de tao Chi sin bajar a pesar de su juventud.

[@nathanielbrundige5982]

Just a correction to your explanation: Yang Jun is grandson to Yang Zhenduo. YJ's father either wasn't interested or was otherwise unable to be lineage-holder, so YZ passed it to his grandson.

[@tonbonthemon]

Thanks!

[@igorrakar8310]

The YZD video should be replaced with YSC video.

[@henrymccann3384]

I was thinking the same thing. Zhenduo was only maybe 10 years old when Chengfu passed away, so he could not have studied much in-depth material with his father by then.

[@laffta6727]

do the form do the form do the form

[@HappyLifege]

Is there a video of the long form performed by Chen Man Ching?

[@tonbonthemon]

I don't think he ever learned it. The story goes that he was learning the form from YCF and he forgot which Repulse Monkey he was on (2nd, 3rd etc) and asked to make a short form that would be easier to practice.

[@lindenblock]

Silly story. Professor shortened the form for various reasons, but he most certainly did learn the entire form. Read his books and read the chapter on him in Robert Smith's "Masters and Methods".

[@tonbonthemon]

@@lindenblock Thanks, there must be some disagreement on that, since I heard it in the documentary "The Professor" I believe

[@amccarl]

@@tonbonthemon He definitely knew and practiced the long form. He had played around with shortening the form, but formalized it when he was commissioned to teach T'ai Chi to members of the Chinese military and didn't have the time to teach the complete form. Documented in several places including in the biography written by his wife for his memorial when he passed away.

[@thomaskirkebranner5225]

T.T. Liang did the long form in the style of his teacher, CMC. Watching it might help learn it as CMC may have done it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oqetlJ-PZ6aomZYsi=b0BDGQv3DOPPhiRR

[@concentriccultivationtaich1663]

Very cool. Too bad there's no video of Chen Weiming 😢

[@MrDeagles8]

Fu Zhongwen has amazing whole body integration and is an absolute pleasure to watch. All are amazing but FZW always amazes me.

[@emptyemptiness8372]

His has the taijiquan thug energy, his taiji wasn't for health, it was the real deal.

[@joshpickles9022]

He's like a freight train. I'm fortunate to learn form his grandson and it's the bomb.

[@Obstsalatissimo]

very strange that you left out the heir of Yang Luchan, his eldest son Yang Sau Chung...

[@tonbonthemon]

Yang Zhenduo's footage was relatively clearer, and of the brothers, his line seems to be most prominent these days. I also did not want to limit the video to Yang family members. Therefore I chose Yang Zhenduo.

[@BobJohnson992]

Zheng Manqing was not a disciple of Yang Cheng Fu. The records that the Tung family retain show Zheng as only being a student in the general population at the school.

[@tonbonthemon]

Zhenduo never learned from YCF, CMC wasn't a disciple... what's next?

[@BobJohnson992]

@@tonbonthemon What does it matter? By the time YCF decided to devote his practice to Taijiquan (his art as a youth was shuai jiao) his relatives/mentors were dead. YCF was 30 before he tried to apply himself to Taijquan (read his biographies) and he had not learned to control his body with his dantian, as his uncle Yang Banhou did. Everything from YCF on down is not really Taijiquan since by definition Taijiquan moves from the dantian.

[@TeShan-lf7kq]

🙏🎸☯️🕉️

[@joshpickles9022]

Yang zhen duo should be replaced with yang shou zheng. YZD was around 8 years old when his father died and Fu Zhong Wen taught him after that.

[@jaugmartins]

Great work here|| They are all great TCC masters. and they are doing the same thing (or they think so). Hoever accoordingly to TCC Classocs some of them are not entirely correct! Just to think about this.

[@user-xp1fw5ie2t]

What is name of 4man^^

[@SUMKAISAMGSumkaidanh]

我祇知道其中三個大師的名字左上角的傅鍾文，右上角的董英傑，右下角的郑曼青，他們三個都是楊澄甫宗師的高足。

[@mayami197]

The forth, lower left corner is Yang Chenfu's 3th son, Yang Zhenduo.

[@cathie93230]

🙏🏻🫶🏻

[@gillesdelattre1320]

Je préfère Dong Yi jie style façon style ancien avec inclinaisons du buste aines bien creusées et genoux pliés de façon constante

[@SUMKAISAMGSumkaidanh]

翻譯錯誤应該是董英傑。

[@CedricRandolph]

Yang Chengfu (1883-1936) had no disciples. He taught the entire style to his first born son Yang Sau Chung (1910-1985) especially not Yang Zhenduo, who was only 10 years old when his father died. Anything he taught to Fu Zhongwen (1903-1994), Dong Ying Jie (1897-1961) and Zheng Manqing (1902-1975) was only what Yang Chengfu decided to make public, since what he taught Yang Sau Chung has only begun to be made public in the last 30 years or so.

[@stephantaichi7016]

CMC wasn't a Disciple. YZD obviously was too young to learn much from his father. FZW status is unclear . DYC form obviously is the best of the four.

[@tonbonthemon]

Not sure how FZW's status is unclear but I do like DYJ's form

[@segurogarrido-mv4hy]

NO ME GUSTA YANG CHEN FU

[@ChristianoSts]

Heir of Yang style is Yang Jun.

[@greg6509]

True for outer door simplified Yang Cheng Fu Style. However, I find the Tian Zhaolin, Wu Tunan and Gu Lisheng lineages have preserved and share the inner door Old Yang Style much more freely.

[@Vanile-ph5wq]

1 grand and others are aferists

[@leolai3361]

I dont't like CMC form.