More live services are dying by the dozen as unsustainable saturation worsens

PATREON: / yongyea
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SOURCES
1: • Live Services Are Dyin...
2: info.exoprimal...
3: www.thegamer.c...
4: www.inverse.co...
5: steamdb.info/a...
6: insider-gaming...
7: www.gamedevelo...
8: www.thegamer.c...
9: steamcharts.co...
10: www.truetrophi...
11: readwrite.com/...
12: en.wikipedia.o...
13: www.reddit.com....
14: www.gamesindus....
15: store.steampow...
16: www.metacritic...
17: steamcharts.co...
18: steamcharts.co...
19: x.com/ZZZ_EN/s...
20: steamdb.info/a...
21: www.gamedevelo...
22: gamerant.com/x...
22: www.washington...
23: www.videogames...
24: www.thegamer.c...
25: www.naughtydog...
TOP PATRONS
[BIG BOSS]
- Devon B
[BOSS]
- Gerardo Andrade
- Michael Redmond
- Phil

[@YongYea]

Most live services feel so bland and uninspired, attempting to replicate rather than innovate. Given the time investment they ask from players and given that players only have so much money and time they can spend, nothing short of an inspired standout will have a high chance of succeeding for the long term in such a saturated market. PATREON: www.patreon.com/yongyea TWITTER: twitter.com/yongyea INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/yong_yea TIKTOK: www.tiktok.com/@yongyea TOP PATRONS [BIG BOSS] - Devon B [BOSS] - Gerardo Andrade - Michael Redmond - Phil

[@browut644]

True!

[@nuggeto9155]

,

[@MakiseRumi]

Dang the YT bots are popping off

[@arocomisgamusclademork1603]

Just play old games, isn't awkward?

[@Ricky-SC]

Mihoyo as a brand while indeed is very established, but the more important factor is they actually output quality products that don't feel soulless, they release constant updates to all their games, in every corner of their products you can feel their passion and how much effort they put into them.

[@Bthakilla4rilla]

Welcome to the extremely predictable consequence of the entire industry dogpiling on a model that requires infinite spending and/or infinite grinding with an emphasis on repeating content forever

[@hafirenggayuda]

Sometimes I think that some dev and publisher INTENTIONALLY make their LS games bad/ non profitable, so they can file for bankruptcy or tax break (getting more money that way) DEI stuff already indicators

[@aegresen]

@@hafirenggayuda What corner of the conspiracy hellhole did you crawl out of...jeez

[@ContinuumSpanner]

Warframe had it in one

[@childofvenus3781]

To some extent it's the gamers' fault. Yes, bad live service games usually flop, but the studios won't stop focusing on this until the "good" ones also flop; and they should. I don't even understand how this many people don't get bored out of their fu(king mind spending hundreds & thousands of hours of their time on these games where pretty much the only thing you do is shoot. In a world with such diversity of amazing legendary games, why the heII would you even want a "good" live service game, when a good live service game is still not comparable to great single-player experience. There are exceptions to that like if StarCitizen finally finishes one day that might be an amazing multi-player but generally i feel like that's the rule. People spend too much time on these types of games when they still have countless (usually older) excelent games to experience.

[@hafirenggayuda]

@@aegresen tbf, just rewatch "The Producer" recently

[@Semi-Nobody]

The big problem with most “live service” games is simply this, they’re trying to be stores for micro transactions, cosmetics, and season passes, not actual games.

[@dustygearhead]

They are just all cookie cutter trash. Give me a single player driven game any day over this garbage.

[@SeizedM0ney]

@@dustygearhead yeah even when they try to add in co-op, they just start doing a whole lotta extra

[@dustygearhead]

@@SeizedM0ney the glory days of co op belong to the 360/ps3 era. Back when couch co op was more prominent. There are still some gems here and there for co op campaign games, but not even close to back in the day.

[@SeizedM0ney]

@@dustygearhead totally agree

[@dustygearhead]

@@SeizedM0ney i havent had ps plus since i got hooked on Titanfall 2 way back in the day. I have no desire for multiplayer. I like playing a story that comes to a conclusion

[@rad6666]

As a gamer of 47 years. Failure of live services is music to my ears.

[@crystalwater505]

Nearly 40 myself and couldn't agree more.

[@killuminati2911]

We had it too good in the past year pal. We've seen too much

[@Lunaria.Praesentia]

31 years old here and i'm completely with you guys, the golden era of videogames ended in the mid 2000s

[@chrisdrake512]

Hey, even 30 yrs old "kids" like myself and the user above me enjoy seeing the failure of gaas. Probably because unlike most of my peers I'm a "paladin" for offline gaming!

[@alyoshamikhaylov7651]

When your target audience is stupid poor people, you will get a stupid poor games. Good riddance

[@billybob7135]

Remember: entry level jobs require a Bachelor's degree and 5 years of experience. Despite this, anyone who took economics in high school could tell you that oversaturation kills profit in any profitable market. And yet, executives act surprised. These job requirements are a joke.

[@ifrit1937]

Gonna make a clarification to what you said real quick: Entry level jobs require a Bachelor's degree and 5 years of experience IN THAT FIELD to be considered for being hired for the most part...what these employers actually want aren't new people in the industry trying to get into it who may be worth that entry level price but instead veterans in said fields that are willing or desperate enough to take a price cut likely due to being out of work for a while after being fired/quitting/let go/company goes belly up thus they lose the job/they finished a contract if they were freelancing/etc. I had to deal with the same BS 10 years ago when trying to get into the editorial field (wanted to become an editor/proofreader for book publishing firms...primarily ones that did sci fi or fantasy novels eventually) however wound up giving up on that field in the end due to all of the jobs in my region (mostly journalist related jobs or scientific journals) needing at bare minimum 3 years experience in the field and the only real way you could get that before leaving college would've been via an internship I guess but my school was useless in finding them for me even with the career counselors help and the like (all said they couldn't find any in the region...the school and my time there was a joke imo and a waste of time and money...only possible upside was the English degree was considerably cheaper than other degrees in that/most colleges at about 25K to 30K rather than 100K+ and I had 10 years (plus a few extra due to Covid pausing the payments) to pay it. But let me say this: if you want to go for an education for a job look into the trades/trade schools rather than these 'white collar' office jobs as first you're likely to get skills applicable to a far wider range of jobs and 2nd those 'white collar' jobs pay jack shit nowadays...you'll make far more as an engineer, mechanic, police, firefighter, construction worker, etc than an office worker...the ONLY office jobs that make money are higher management jobs and that's about it. Hell even truck drivers can match even close to mid range CEO wages at about 80 to 120K depending on the company/range you drive...most office jobs, at least in my area pay at best around 40 to 45K and if you're lucky maybe up to about 55K with some amounts of experience).

[@Sven989]

Why would I want to give my money to live service games when most get shut down in a few years anyway?

[@DaFro3713]

Not even anymore. Most of these are lucky if they last a calendar year.

[@Sven989]

@@DaFro3713yep

[@krazyd0nut404]

3 months and they are dead. 6 months you are playing with bots to fill lobby’s.

[@BigPapaSpeedwagon]

That's why you play the ones that have been around for a while. There's a reason why they are still around XD

[@raidengoodman8754]

Fr. Rumbleverse, avengers, exoprimal, redfall, babylons fall, splitgate, etc. you name it. There are too many examples of this

[@PicklesEsquire]

I’m so burned out on live services. I just want to play a game the respects my time and doesn’t try to take every ounce of my free time for some stupid cosmetic.

[@TheSoCalledZoner1]

Imagine enjoying pay to play games

[@Bthakilla4rilla]

This is why Elden Ring is so loved. Not only is the base game just good, but it actually feels like you're receiving and having available the entire game AT the time of purchasing it.

[@nekonomicon2983]

This is why I've gone retro. Even games that I never got to in the past few weeks. It's really fun.

[@TheSoCalledZoner1]

@@nekonomicon2983 a arcade player no way

[@quantum5661]

this is why i got into helldivers 2 and armored core 6 so much, finally some good games without the bullshit

[@Thule-ob1vm]

"We have no plan, no creative vision, and no idea how anything actually works. But we know a guy who's brother's cousin's roommate got rich doing this so if we copy it we will definitely get rich." -Every live service pitch ever

[@Linkhaxor]

"More Live services are dying off." And nothing of value was lost.

[@freighttrain7143]

Everyone Lived Happily Ever After. The End.

[@SpartanF8]

Live services, the closest thing to a pump-and-dump scheme in gaming

[@thehim2990]

This might legitimately be the reason some of these games come out

[@DisDatK9]

We are constantly screwed by the industry because there's a decent percentage of players who don't care about the monetization and will spend stupid amounts of money on skins and such without a second thought. Just look at COD; MW3 was such an epic failure yet Actiblizz made a shit ton of money from it due to whales and the extremely rushed production means the costs were lower. To the execs, as long as money comes in it doesn't matter how many heads they need to step on. We just need those players to stop funding these practices and they would learn treating us like shit isn't a great idea.

[@Revenant-oq9ts]

If publishers want live services while still remaining low risk, honestly they should just allow private servers.

[@magicball3201]

I'd say that NFT/Crypto games are even worse, but live service games are a good second place

[@spence6195]

A wise man once said "Live service games are fraud"

[@silverdamascus2023]

The bubble has burst already, but companies insist on making them.

[@sytherwusky]

To any game Dev, I would say this: if you are finding yourself dropping whatever is you’re working on in order to rush out a game for a popular new trend then don’t

[@TheJamieellis]

Tbf, these games that are coming out will have been in development for a WHILE, likely started back in the boom

[@tehbeernerd]

@@TheJamieellisso what’s Sega’s excuse? They announced a Crazy Taxi live service just recently.

[@kuma8093]

​@@sytherwuskygame devs have absolutely no say in the matter. The decision is made much higher up by publishers and execs.

[@Vachelll]

Some companies need to learn the hard way

[@Cyfrik]

If you're considering buying a game, and you see it's a live service, DO NOT BUY IT! All live services will eventually be shut down when maintaining the servers is no longer profitable, and most do not provide a way to continue using them (such as self-hosting or offline modes). Paying for a live service is paying for something that WILL be taken away from you without your consent. Live services are a scam. Do not support them, or it'll just keep getting worse.

[@TypeZeta2]

A friend got me ExoPrimal and I never touched it.

[@spence6195]

@@Cyfrik I leave as soon as I see "online play required" & "in-game purchases"

[@dresean3725]

​@@spence6195 Aint no way, that's nearly every game that's being released. Except maybe with Indie games

[@ponocni1]

@@dresean3725 Then move to indie space. Days of indie games looking like shit are long gone and they can make quite nice games too. It wont be AAAA looks, but you can bet it will be more fun then all these slops and even in worst cases, you wont be treated worse. Welp, maybe in mobile space, but that thing is sewage.

[@darklitex]

​@@ponocni1 They still look like shit, but they are faaaaar more fun than the Triple A slop being shat out these days.

[@DrKenjiroInc]

My two cents... I'm a fifty years old guy and I played my first games on a Vic20. I enjoyed playing video games my whole life. But something changed around the end of the ps4's life cycle. Microtransactions, live service games, etc. I used to pirate games as a minor, bought all my games as an adult. Now I only buy indies on steam and pirate all the AAA crap only to uninstall after a few hours. I was breathing video games my whole life, now I'm just bored by what's coming out except a few titles. It has to get worse before it gets better...

[@killuminati2911]

I'm 46 and I feel your pain being playing since '82 on a TI-99

[@BurnabyBoyZippy]

Indies are worth playing, and old games with mods / Romhacks. I have played Phantasy Star 4 probably 20 times, and I played all the Romhacks I could find. Super fun. DK64 has a fantastic romhack where you can swap kongs on the fly. AAA is seriously just ~$100 the thrown in the garbage. Diablo IV cemented my ideology of never buy AAA.

[@DrKenjiroInc]

Absolutely! I got a mid range pc and play my indies on it.

[@Kirklegacy]

Well, there is enough old and indies games we never heard about to try to last us a lifetime. The Nintendo Switch is the last console I bought and probably the last for a very long time (Never bought beyond PS3 and Xbox360). I don't have the money for new consoles and their premium services. My gaming PC is keeping me busy plenty. Money is a currency, but also does time; why would we play an "okay" game (that tries to scam us) while we can play a "great" game, thus the smell of greedy AAA company drives us away quickly. (Also, the Steam version of Dwarf Fortress is very addictive to me these weeks)

[@cupocoffee9369]

Holy shit I legitimately 100% forgot about Skull and Bones completely

[@user-nw1je1ur6t]

"Quadruple A" the audacity

[@TheRoflcer]

Only reason I remember it is because of Fleekazoids review.

[@leopereira4718]

Me too, it was completely wiped from my memory until I heard it in the video. Felt like a bit of whiplash lol

[@Mt.Berry-o7]

As one should, honestly Yong did us a disservice by reminding us of its existence.

[@sharpester7277]

The only reason why I remember the game is Angry Joe's video.

[@paulthetexan]

Live services dying left and right, meanwhile I'm still playing modded Minecraft that I paid $10 for 10 years ago...

[@joshallen128]

Quake Doom I mean it sounds like a bargain I wonder if they will stop free mods soon

[@Bakuryu0083]

I stop counting the hours I've put into Starsector, and I think i only paid $10-15 for it

[@junyaiwase]

Dollar for every year, man getting his worth that’s for sure

[@LUCAS420BLZ]

Prepare for Microsoft to force marketplace on Java

[@Allustar]

Modded Minecraft is super versatile. It’s almost whatever you want it to be. These live-services live and die by their gameplay and they often do the latter.

[@thelaborpeasant]

Btw, I'm starting my own oil company What do you MEAN the oil industry is already fully explored with no room to break in? Have you SEEN how much money Shell made last quarter?? You're high if you think I can't get my little cut of that - Literally every video game shareholder 😂

[@Spectacular_Insanity]

This is what happens when companies think the “don’t ask questions, just consume product and get excited for next product” meme is a sound business strategy. 😂

[@Xport9]

Imagine thinking that GAAS is sustainable. > Make a game > No one's playing > Gets shutdown down the line The gaming industry in a nutshell.

[@None38389]

One-time purchase game is even less sustainable, even if you made one successful game you are still one failed game away from getting shutdown. At least with GAAS you get to sustain yourself for a while if the game sees some success.

[@Agent-Blaze]

​@@None38389 Shilling today, are we?

[@polca4love]

​@@None38389 I think EA disagrees.

[@DemothHymside]

@@None38389 , it's obviously never that simple. GAAS is a problem when the game is generic, the content is generic, and the landscape is saturated with too many of them to ever hope to gain a sizeable audience. My brother's ex used to work in the gaming industry as an art designer, and talked about the problem we were heading into back in 2010, because a lot of her teams were being hired to create a lot of post-launch content for games that ultimately flopped, meaning they had already invested money into things beyond the initial purchase price, hoping people would stick with the game and buy their DLC and cosmetic stuff. The issue is that if you're making a one-time purchase game, your whole hope is that you've made something that people actually want to play. With something like GAAS, it seems a lot of these games don't care how bland their initial offering is, they want to create something that is tantamount to a hamster wheel that will give JUST enough of that carrot on a stick feeling to keep people chasing, with eventually hoping they keep paying and get stuck in that sunken cost fallacy. None of what I'm saying is even speculative; execs have said as much themselves.

[@Malxer]

​@@None38389 Brain not working properly?

[@Falsechicken]

This whole live service era is gonna be massive for lost media. There is gonna be so many unplayable games.

[@ZeroXSEED]

Back in my day, a good live service game always get private servers after they fell off...

[@kallemetsahalme5701]

who really cares about these? its like trying to preserve the milk carton when the company announces the carton design will change next week. these games were crap when they came out and they will be crap 50 years into the future. these games deserve to be forgotten forever, maybe excluding the wikipedia article someone might stumble upon sometime

[@Cyfrik]

@@kallemetsahalme5701 "Bad" or not, this is destruction of art, which is inherently bad. Not to mention, the "badness" can vary between different aspects of the game. Even in the cases where the gameplay is bad, many of them are still visually gorgeous. Whether or not you count the game itself as art (it is btw), there's no denying that the 3D models, the textures, the level art, the lighting design, and so on is art.

[@kallemetsahalme5701]

​@@Cyfrikthe milk cartons are also "art". every building, tree and rock formation is "art". earth is a finite place. i dont see anything art in these kind of gobbled up mcdonalds games where the intention is just so suck out consumers money. like god damn do you call all the games in google play store "art"?

[@Cyfrik]

@@kallemetsahalme5701 Yes. Most of them aren't particularly good art, but still worthy of preservation. The money-sucking is terrible, I am not disputing that, but the dependency on an external server is even worse, because it prevents preservation once the servers shut down.

[@Akimbo411]

The worst part about all of this is that sports games and phone games are the worst of the live services but they’re also the most successful. As bad as Suicide Squad was, it’s no Monopoly mobile.

[@MoneyStack95]

Suicide squad only wanted u to grind for weeks and pay premium prices for new outfits lol . Phone games are for pay to win players if ur free to play it’s usually doable but you’ll always be behind . And sports do good because it’s a casual game for casual gamers , u don’t see destiny 2 raiders playing college football lol

[@freighttrain7143]

@@MoneyStack95 "And sports do good because it’s a casual game for casual gamers" 🤣 I see you are neither a sports gamer nor do you KNOW any 🤣🤣 You are quite obviously UNFAMILIAR, LOL

[@JackFoxtrotEDM]

The best live service I've ever played is DRG. No FOMO, no microtransactions. You buy the game, you actually _get_ a game, rather than it being an "entry fee" that doesn't include expenses for everything else. Seasonal content exists, but isn't limited time. You can even play older seasons and unlock their content that way. While it does have DLC, you still get an insane amount of content in the base game, it's almost criminal. Rock and stone!

[@Fnafan97]

Indie games are basically beating the ever loving crap out of AAA gaming right now: -Lethal Company outsold Call of Duty -Deep Rock Galactic proves that live service can work if you actually care about the game -Baldur’s Gate 3 was so great that it made AAA developers whine like babies about them actually having to do their job -Palworld basically showed Pokémon what happens when you don’t always do yearly releases -Overall, Indie games are mainly made for the game, not for the money Oh and also, FOR KARL

[@JackFoxtrotEDM]

@@Fnafan97 Yeah, in theory, all a live service is is just keeping the game alive with updates and events. Technically, any game that receives updates can be considered a live service. Live service doesn't mean "beg people for money on limited-time battlepasses and locking content behind paywalls". It never has. The industry just thinks that's what it means, and it's so stupid. I miss AAA games though. Indies will always be superior, but I genuinely miss the days where you can buy a mainstream AAA title and you actually get a full game. There's plenty of indie successors to popular titles, but sometimes it's simply not the same since they have to take original creative liberties with it. I just wish these companies would understand that making games with passion instead of investors is what got them to where they are in the first place. One of my favorite developers is Anton Hand, a solo dev for a VR game called H3VR. It's a realistic firearm simulator, but you shoot sentient sausages instead of people. In a podcast, people asked him why he made it a gun simulator and not a murder simulator, even though it could've made him more money. His responses were, A. the world's depressing as it is, and he wants this to be stress-free and playful, and (most importantly) B. If you're looking to make something that will make you the most money, and you're making a video game, you've already failed as a developer. If you want to make something that'll make you money, go write some banking software or something. Stay away from branches of the industry like video game development, where you're required to have passion and heart and soul put into it. It's like music. Music takes a lot of passion and creativity to make. If you take all the soul out of it because investment predictions say it'll make you more money (or because the suits tell you), then you might as well not even make music at that point. That's not what music is about, and it never has been.

[@kwaddell]

My “live service” is my endlessly deep steam backlog

🤣🤣🤣

[@greed-1914]

No kidding. I have a stack of games that I haven't even started. I don't have time for a game that is just endless repetition

[@Fnorgh]

Hence the introduction of GamePass and other subscription services. Publishers would much prefer that we rented games from them in perpetuity.

[@Rance53]

Bro. For real.

[@freighttrain7143]

FACTS

[@Duckman8213]

People should remember that Helldivers 2 had a small target audience so they weren’t expecting a massive player base. Their current player count is what they had in sight before releasing the game. The launch was unforeseen for them.

[@silvafox07]

In the devs defense ... it was a super good game though lol.

[@onup1475]

​@@silvafox07 Shame it's dying and unfortunate some employees did a few stupid things. Also still haven't unblocked a few countries from purchasing. Tho personally iv moved on.

[@riddif]

@@onup1475 that's blocked thing is on Sony though

[@JoshTwistYT]

its really a great game, too bad there is so many technical difficulties

[@Duckman8213]

@@JoshTwistYT wouldn’t know haven’t played it

[@johnrobertson6302]

We have seen this before with MMORPGs. There were a large number of them created, a number of them with monthly subscriptions, and now the number that you hear about is a handful at best. This will happen again when the next fad in gaming turns up, history repeating itself again.

[@Enlightenuser-n6n]

Not only that MMORPGs are not that robust anymore in terms of gamer counts. Remember we are now in the best Internet speed, but the gamer’s playing are down. The numbers may climb up every new updates but after few days it will dip hard and return to the same little to no count.

[@faenethlorhalien]

Yong, there is a very good reason why publishers keep releasing this gaff. The investment to make them is limited, however large it can be, but if it is THE one that makes it big, the new Fortnite, the potential for monetization is literally ENDLESS for at least a decade. It would print money by itself with little investment for maintenance. Publishers keep chasing this because they know that the potential benefit is so large that they can plan ahead and lose a couple billion just to give it a try. A CEO might be fired if they did NOT do this exact thing. So, no surprises that publishers keep releasing failing live services... Because they expect they will be the ones to publish the one that somehow clicks with the audience, but they don't know what it is that makes a game become super popular, so they're fumbling and waiting for the best, expecting the worst.

[@Afr0D1zzyAct]

Greed. Greed never changes. This is what happens when you feel the need to monetize everything, a live service game can facilitate that. The biggest mistake developers/publishers/investors are making is treating their player base as money bags, and not genuine, enthusiastic gamers.

[@ignskeletons]

Meanwhile games like Baldur's Gate 3 and PalWorld came out with none of that and were massively successful without microtransactions. The gaming industry is largely just trend chasing right now, that ones that don't fall for the traps are doing really well though.

[@chibinya]

@@ignskeletons Yeah but those games don't make much money. $70 from a Million players just ain't cutting it anymore for big publishers.

[@SlimeBlueMS]

Nobody plays PalWorld anymore. It was exciting at first and is now considered dead

[@Rainbowhawk1993]

Single Player gamer to Multiplayer gamer: “Wow, sucks to be you.”

[@-CrimsoN-]

Relatable lol I've never bought a live service game and I'm never going to. Singleplayer is where it's at.

[@OscarG787]

@@-CrimsoN-Hell Divers 2 is still hella fun to play just needs more content imo.

[@-CrimsoN-]

@@OscarG787 I've really just never been into multiplayer only games.

[@OscarG787]

@@-CrimsoN- understandable, I’m like that sometimes as well.

[@alexw4482]

I wonder if the industry will ever learn that just because a game is successful doesn’t mean that making 30 worse clones of it will be.

[@VoyagersRevenge]

Concord for 40 bucks is diabolical

[@juniisenpai3777]

even for 5$ its a criminal. HAHAHAHA dafuq

[@NoshikiYT]

fr

[@gamerkingdom1442]

EVEN FREE THIS GAME IS DIABOLICAL…

[@zak1872]

​@gamerkingdom1442 god, I'm so glad they got rid of Jim Ryan, that man was leading Sony into a not very good place 😅

[@justaadhdgamerwesley6244]

Ign keeps making puff pieces on Concord

[@kuragariinuken255]

Im at the point where I see a game is a live service and I instantly stop caring about it.

[@ahmadrunningwild85]

Based

[@patrikd.7110]

Live service, EA and Ubisoft games, I don't even look at them

[@UhCold]

Same

[@leoleo1035]

They waste so many resources designing battle passes that most of the games release as a piece of shit, and the Battle Pass is a crutch to trap delusional players into thinking they're progressing meaningfully.

[@waketp420]

Yep.

[@kriscynical]

It's almost like this happened ten years ago when every single game on the planet had a Battle Royale mode.

[@lsant1997]

Seeing multiverses die, come back from the dead, then to only die faster than before was expected to say the least

[@Batt1nsonsolos]

Its not dead tho at all, idk what tf yong yea is talking abt, Its literally the most succesful fighting game currently and it has a crazy good amount of players

[@AwesomeNinjaXD]

@@Batt1nsonsolos Doesn't seem like it. Looking at the active player count (albeit could be time zone differences), it seems like MK1 is double the player count for the last hour, and Tekken 8 seems to be 4x MK1, or 8x MultiVersus in the last hour. Even Brawlhalla nearly 5x the player count.

[@Batt1nsonsolos]

@@AwesomeNinjaXD Time zone differences should be taken into account yeah but not just that, ur only looking at steam player counts because obv we cant check console, but the thing with mvs is the majority of the playerbase is on console, so there most likely is around 20-30k at peak maybe more on console. I checked steam charts yesterday and it was 15k on steam only. Saying mvs hasnt been pretty successful so far would be wrong.

[@AwesomeNinjaXD]

@@Batt1nsonsolos Actually, it's a website. Not sure how accurate it is, but it claims to count active players for all platforms supported by each game, including PC and Switch.

[@Batt1nsonsolos]

@@AwesomeNinjaXD Im pretty sure tracking the amount of players on console is impossible tho

[@jesusgalactic7043]

I lost count of how many released this year, and its been pissing me off. If anything, its the year for indie games

[@jorochimaru]

You won't be pissed off if you stop counting

[@MorfsPrower]

SAGE is coming in a month or so here, and I can't wait for the new and returning lineup of unique indie games being showcased whether they're a conceptual prototype, or a full release title.

[@SleepyMook]

Some of the best games i’ve played this year have mostly been indie. Two of my recent favorites have been Selaco and Fallen Aces and I can’t wait to see more of em.

[@ricthiamevans8980]

Yea indie releases have been interesting and amazing this year.

[@tehbeernerd]

So, uh, bad news about indie games: this may be the last year for them to come out.

[@JohnnyShagbot]

Sony working on a DOZEN live service games all at once tells me loud and clear that their intention isn't to try and create something that WILL be successful, but rather that they think the best business model is the classic "Throw as much shit at the wall as you can and hope something sticks" model. Edit: YongYea said this seconds after I wrote it lmao

[@doomguy.23frommars60]

And thats why they got bungie, the very few who know how to do it and very successful with it the final shape was a huge success and did so much money and destiny has been for the past decade in fact they getting bungie to help out helldivers aswell they are masters and creators of live service and probably it will stay taht way

[@UltimateGattai]

I hate the direction Sony has gone in, it's made the PS5 horribly undesirable. I miss the PS1/PS2 days, even the PS4 days weren't that bad.

[@cheriebomb7213]

If they don't care about their games beyond micro transactions why should anyone else

[@CrowMercury]

If I had a nickel for each time YongYea announced Multiverse was dead (and was correct), I would have 2 nickels. It's not much, but it's really worrying that it had to happen twice and no one that needs to get the message did.

[@CozKidNumber1]

People just don't have the money for these "games" right now. Nobody has $20 to basically throw away on cosmetic bullshit, no one has the time to grind just for the sake of grinding. People want fun, not investments.

[@rudeboyjohn3483]

Or the time when they are working multiple "fulltime" jobs

[@mewletter]

Unfortunate for these companies that the "whales" are getting rarer and requires jackpot inspired mechanics to even sustain such live service games

[@leoleo1035]

Yup. And this only proves the fact that the loud MINORITY keeps screaming when a good game (V Rising, Baldurs Gate 3) isn't trying to "go infinite". They're full of experiences that can be replayed up to X amount, and that makes the minorities pissed that they won't be able to play their newest obsession for 1000s of hours, so they try to destroy the communities from inside out just so their entitlement claims are being heard. Fucking disgraceful

[@gelokitty8179]

Damn ryt​@@rudeboyjohn3483

[@AkameGaKillfan777]

Oh many people have the money, they just don't spend it on garbage.

[@MrJDuro]

Live services need to go away. Just make a damn good game.

[@gumi_twylit2605]

it will not happen in this generation and with the huge amount of AI exploitation that will be used in so many garbage and cash grab games from this point onwards... I don't see it stopping anytime soon.

[@TheOfficialPatriarchy]

Yes, my issue with live services is not just the economy of money but of time. By the time I'm done doing all the daily quests, holiday quests, event quests, battle pass, etc. they put in front of me, I end up feeling like I just spent all my entertainment time doing chores rather than playing the actual game. And if you start multiplying that across multiple games, what is even the point anymore? Are you really having fun?

[@Mt.Berry-o7]

Live service games keep being released because some investor/CEO was convinced at some point that it's a cheat code to print infinite money as long as they push out the bear minimum viable product and they refuse to let go of that fantasy. It doesn't help that they have ruined the concept to the point that a lot of people immediately lose interest in a game upon hearing it will be a live service.

[@barcster2003]

I mean in theory live service sounds great but most companies aren't ready for the level of support needed and are all about greeding.

[@tjkbrown]

Say thankyou to EA.

[@mooboigaming2234]

to be fair, helldivers is still doing good, but sony is strangling its player base by having half the world cut off from it

[@Akimbo411]

Just shows how much money these companies are making on our data when it’s not worth selling the game to people who can’t make a PSN account that harvests that data.

[@aaron7285]

yup it is Sony's fault mostly... at least there can be new players if it is available to other countries.. just seeing what is the fuss about but well they kill it and I do not believe in Sony anymore

[@Jack1994hoo]

I have no proof for this, call it a presentment, but I think maybe Sony WANTS Helldivers 2 to fail, because if a game like that which doesn't have heavy monetization succeeds, it might serve as an example that you don't need to milk your player base. So by having Helldivers fail, they might use it as an example of "See? Even a good game flops if we don't monetize it heavier. Let's crank microtransactions." That and they are probably petty that their account linking didn't work and want to punish the game and their players for it.

[@wolfumz]

​@@Jack1994hooits tough for Sony, because maintaining the game is pretty expensive. People don't really appreciate how much maintenance it takes, keeping the servers up, having a worldwide player base. It's not trivial. So they have this cost, maintaining the game, but there's not much money offsetting it. Helldivers players love the grind. Even if you buy everything in the game, its a trickle of money, compared to other games.

[@Jack1994hoo]

@@wolfumz maybe, but helldivers isn't a F2P either, it costs $40, and it has in game purchases too, if that's not enough to justify maintaining the game having sold so many copies, then there is something seriously wrong with gaming in general. Now, this just gives more of a necessity for the game to have bigger expansions, even if they are paid, if the game added some new content to the game that injected actual new content that's different from.rhe main game (like new factions, vehicles, something) more frequently, they could make money, and regain a lot of the lost players.

[@justinhogan8131]

It's not just the gaming industry. The World Economy is not going to last much longer.

[@petrri323]

Skyrim is still very playable btw. The modding community has done more “Live Service” for that game than any Billion dollar game corporation ever has for another. 13 year old game. Games are going the same direction other content is on social media. Short, Loud, Fast, and gone within the year.

[@dyea_b_tis5319]

Maybe this world does not need more live-service games. We might as well be playing singleplayer games.

[@svartrbrisingr6141]

we should be playing single player games. they are so much better then multiplayer focused games

[@IntrusiveThoughts838]

@@svartrbrisingr6141as a person who enjoys both this isn’t true. For some multiplayer focused games definitely can be just as good as single player, it’s just we keep getting slip

[@SleepyMook]

@@IntrusiveThoughts838the only example I can think of in recent memory is Helldivers 2 and im much more of a single player guy than a multiplayer one. I will agree that there are good ones but they’re incredibly rare to come across imo.

[@puddingcatsteamboat6393]

the way you word that makes it sound almost like a bad thing. most of my favorite games of all time are single player and i still prefer them. it’s lovely that gaming has become a more social experience but that’s far from the only thing it should be.

[@Allustar]

@@svartrbrisingr6141No, multi-player focused games can be great. Companies just need to put some effort to keep the bar up.

[@Did_No_Wrong]

Huh, its kinda like the consumer base prefer a finished product on launch with no microtransactions.

[@jacktheripper7935]

Ngl, this type of product became quite rare nowadays... And it's f*cking sad...

[@StrigidaeStrigiformes-sv6mj]

@@jacktheripper7935 TrueThat. Every time I hear a game say, "Live service." I don't care how good it is. Fook them. I ain't buying it.

[@jacktheripper7935]

@@StrigidaeStrigiformes-sv6mj Yeah, it acts like a red flag.

[@VitalVampyr]

Plenty of those fail commercially as well.

[@sethcoston90]

I believe the words you're looking for are "surprise mechanics" which to be clear is definitely NOT gambling.

[@danieljacob9717]

From a history perspective it’s fascinating to watch this phenomenon. There have been periods where a single genre or idea strikes gold and everyone rushes to stake a claim. I remember the mmo, hero shooter, and battle royals phase where multiple developers tried to carve out their own spot with only a handful enduring and finding success. While as a customer it’s depressing to see developers and companies trying to chase trends for the sake of profit as someone interested in history it’s fascinating to see history repeat itself.

[@AnonJuggerbot]

Helldivers 2 will be getting the Illuminate soon, and I expect a huge uptick when that happens. A lot of people I know are literally just waiting for that, for some of the reasons you said- Bots and bugs are good but two factions isn't enough variety to keep them hooked, but a third faction would give more options.

[@ChrisMS0815]

Why is it so hard for the industry to understand we can't won't be able to play all these live service games simultaneously. Only a few can exist at a time.

[@joshallen128]

Should only have one live service period every company invest in one internationally

[@A1stardan]

They know, they all want the only live service game you play, to be theirs

[@ChrisMS0815]

@@A1stardan Then the chances of it being successful are extremely low.

[@IndianTelephone]

@@ChrisMS0815 Unfortunately, they are not zero, so this will keep happening.

[@sanidhyadevgupta6452]

Thats not what they want , instead of you playing multiple games they want you to play only one game.

[@jordanvachon6924]

Multiversus is a great exemple of "you have everething to do great " yet its covered in corporate greed and anti-player moves . WB is very good at very anti-consumer decisions .

[@michel0dy]

At this point I'm actively avoiding live service games. My game time is already limited, I'd rather play something that is not trying to pressure me into playing all the time. I just wanna chill and have some fun after a day of work, without worrying if I'm gonna make enough progress in a battle pass or get the time-limited unlockables.

[@kalsvtg5169]

Have to say im so sick and tired of "competitive pvp" live service games.

[@mrcaterpillow9926]

Probably one reason why Helldivers 2 works so well. Granted ya know Sony helped ruin a lot of their good will with players. Games still good, and it's constantly giving us new battlepasses that are not time gated and shit. We can grind at our own pace and junk. Genuinely what a live service game should be like.

[@kalsvtg5169]

@@mrcaterpillow9926 Still a live service without offline component, when they decide to axe it, that's it. Look at The Crew. The best live service is a live service with offline mode (aka none coz none exist).

[@0taku912]

Preordering Concord gives you 5 beta keys. That's how desperate Sony is.

[@EchoDoctrine]

I would lose 5 friends if I tried to get them to play that game.

[@TraaaaaasshBooooaaaatttt]

Wtf is concord

[@Blaster0095]

I think the reason these huge studio games are shut down is because games are a trend. If you are not successful within a few months, your game is pretty much dead. Its like a startup. Most fail, one succeeds. And the one that succeeds will be successful for a long time. Look at League, CSGO, Dota, Minecraft, etc.

[@BladeLigerV]

Helldivers 2. Let's not forget that Sony literally sabotaged it.

[@joesjoeys]

Companies seem to think we have both unlimited time and unlimited money. Everything is now a subscription to nickle and dime us, and microtransactions SHOULD be renamed to macrotransactions, especially when they can easily run into the THOUSANDS of dollars on a single game. I play Warframe and Destiny 2, and I can barely keep up with either of them, and I have TONS of free time on my hands. Dear companies: Just cuz something works, doesnt mean you have to copy it. And stop trying to rob your players.

[@fadingspace7103]

Oof no means to offend but that's a sweaty combo.

They also thought consumers are idiots and glad it shows we arent.

[@suminternetsht290]

bless your heart you play both?? how

[@joesjoeys]

@@suminternetsht290Barely. Barely is how XD

[@UltimateGattai]

I am so tired of subscriptions, why does everything need a subscription, photo and art programs? Apps? Other programs? Even cars now?

[@stavielia7583]

I feel like life has become a battle pass.

[@krazyd0nut404]

Isn’t that the truth 😢

[@bgl11]

😂 but also 😢

[@sharpester7277]

Man......

[@legion8328]

Always has been

[@gumi_twylit2605]

well living with loan, buying foods, etc. is like your irl form of battlepass just for you to survive everyday lol

[@Sedric93]

There's always a place for a 15-30 hour singleplayer game, even if it's not the most original one. But there's no place for another 500-2000 hours unoriginal live service game that requires many years of commitment and hundreds of dollars investments (even if it is F2P initially) with constantly diminishing returns. Shall they ever understand that?

[@Cr0wsMurd3r]

It's like all these major companies have no marketing research department, and/or are smoking the big dream pipe. Any halfwit could see that the Live Service "genre" is very hit and miss, and alot more miss than hit. Making a solid single player game with no bullshit in it that is crafted with passion and care has a higher chance of success than any live service. Sure, it probably wont make ALL the money... but it will make money. Whereas most live services are like throwing money down the toilet.

[@CRVSE]

Companies always forget that time is finite. No one can play that many at once and Live service games start to eat each other. It works when you have very few in the market, for diferent genres. When you flood the market and fragment it... none can be sustainable. Its like fragmented streaming services.

[@krisztiankohut3241]

That IS the point, make progress without money extremely slow, so players have to buy premium to speed up progress. Easy money

[@jameslambertus5820]

Fate/GO beg to differs. They still going strong until now with lots of competitor that came afterwards.

[@wolver1n3x]

​@@krisztiankohut3241 From a greedy b ussines perspective maybe, but in this economy from a none reich gamer point of view... Nah... We'll pick one maybe two and call it a day. I believe most are getting the point of not getting pre-orders specially for life service games. I learned both from Anthem.

[@Voltaic_Fire]

It's worse than just saturation, it's saturation by really terrible games. "Games" is not even the right term because they're not fun, they're merely MTX vehicles designed to separate fools from their money, there's no art or compelling stories to be found in the whole market segment.

[@-CrimsoN-]

Sounds like even the whales aren't enough to sustain such a shitty business model. Who could have predicted that coming??? This is what happens when your operational directives are decided entirely by MBAs.

[@GooberDunk]

Multiverses is a fighting game. They never have a billion players, but for it to be online only and only having 5k is worrying for the people who support it financially

[@Batt1nsonsolos]

5k on steam only, steam legit does not matter since a huge majority of the playerbase is on console, its nowhere near dead and its the most succesful fighting game currently. If Wb didnt see that they wouldnt have bought player first literally hours ago

[@GooberDunk]

@Batt1nsonsolos idk man, until they add better offline content I'm not really interested in it

[@autumnleafa4152]

How much money do companies have to lose before they realize what they're doing isn't working?

[@Cloud-dt6xb]

Depends on the company honestly, we know Sony loves to dig their heels in to a bad idea and double down with fantastic arrogance before they eat their humble pie.

[@MindinViolet]

I suspect that some publishers will push live services until it destroys their company. In their pursuit of endless growth, the profit potential of a successful live service is very alluring.

[@alexjackyperson101]

For WB billions

[@severdislike4222]

Yep. The deliberate lack of understanding "what a niche is" followed by the hot mess that is the Embracer group's mass consolidation and endless growth a-la investors making darn certain the hard collapse of the industry in 1983 happens again.

[@Deadspace123100]

I think gaming has become too big to completely crash and burn like it did back then. I believe the biggest companies will eventually burst and fail, but there will always be a market for small indie projects.

[@mmobilegaming9256]

Now, all that's needed is for the companies behind this live service push to fold side by side with their live services.

[@mikemcmullen5006]

These companies seem to forget people have limited time and money. Once you settle into a live service game you like (applicable only to people who do like them) then your already committed to that game. You have no extra time to play another one, you can really only keep up with one or two. And your not going to spend money on a game that you only occasionally play, whales only whale in their chosen game, as spreading around your spending means it's less effective. They are trying to get a piece of a pie that's already been eaten.

[@TatoHaven]

This 'closing down the servers after 1 year' business summarizes how soulless the gaming industry has become. Even if they have 1000 players online they'll kill that game because they didn't make money with their badly implented monetization. And they'll never think about why their game failed.

[@FrogworfKnight]

I agree that its soulless, but also keep in mind that servers cost money in regards to the 1000 player part of this. By making games live services, they are increasing their costs on the hopes they can nickel and dime the player base for more profit. But if they don't get a minimal amount of players interested, then keeping the servers running for that game will just end up being a loss (or at least what they consider to be a loss). At no point will I question the logic of shutting down a game if it isn't earning the money they wanted. That said... Still 100% agree with what was meant, as 9 times out of 10 (if not 99 out of 100), there was no reason for the said games to be a live service in the first place. And furthermore, I have always been of the opinion that if the servers are going to be shut down, the game should either be patched to work as an offline game, or the server-side stuff should be released to the player base (sadly often a lofty dream) who often times are more than happy to run their own servers at cost. And then we also have the games that are designed top to bottom to extract money from the players, that are just crap because everything was put into making it look shiny, making certain the servers will work, and how best (they think) they can get the player's money, while neglecting story and game play. All in all, everything can be summed up as the gaming industry going all in on short term planning and scheming, with little regard to anything working in the long term, nor long term consequences. Peak capitalism that is going to consume itself and cause some form of a video game crash if it goes on like this.

[@OneWayTwoBrazil]

I learn about the existence of live service games from them getting shut down as opposed to when it's being launched 💀

[@ahmadrunningwild85]

Means they were not in your radar in the first place

[@banishedepsilon1802]

The Multiversus re-release feels way more like a mobile game than before (Bad UI, forced Tutorials, more than 2 currencies, etc).

[@Aldhardt]

The main issue, and the issue that Helldiver's beat, is that these companies think live service means making a store then wrapping a half assed game around it. Nobody has the money to constantly drop $20-40 bucks multiple times a week on cosmetics, nor does anyone want to do that. Game companies forget they are a game company, not a storefront.

[@stuckinabucket6873]

Multiversus was just sad. They re-released the game unfinished and broken with multiple game breaking bugs and awful monetization.

[@sharpester7277]

Playing this game over Smash is essentially choosing to draft a no-name rookie player in NFL Football over Peyton Manning.

[@nekonomicon2983]

I've been playing single-player games. It's a lot less stressful when you don't have to worry about limited time events and stuff. Live service games can be fun when done right, but it can just as easily become a chore, and you really don't want that in your game. Hope things will balance out in the future.

[@gamerkingdom1442]

I know right!? I’ve been playing FF7 REBIRTH and XENOBLADE 3, and I’m having a blast. Just me and the game, no “Live Service” crud!

[@TecraX2]

Every Live-Service game has a BP that requires you spend 50% of your waking hours in order to complete it, yet they seem confused to why more people aren't playing their game!

[@theInfra-Recon]

From a Developer perspective, Live Services are unsustainable. It takes resources, commitment, and pro consumer methodology to last. Problem is that the consumer wants, more and different content gameplay etc. The consumer is getting smarter after being burnt repeatedly. Games need to return to a hybrid model. Singleplayer with Multiplayer features.

[@crystalwater505]

Well said. I always said that the Live Service model was like trying to reinvent the wheel (Single player with multiplayer features, or a multiplayer focused game without all of the microtransaction stuff like old school Counter-Strike) instead of some sort of MMO hybrid.

[@userwasneverfound]

As a fellow game dev, I 100% agree, I miss hybrid games like gears of war and halo

[@syndicalist-0]

If half the people who say they dont play these games actually stopped buying them, we'd never see a live service game again. Stop buying. Stop feeding the machine.

[@kenny187ful]

Video game industry: "Oh no! The consequences of my own terrible decisions!"

[@greed-1914]

So many of them are like self-fulfilling prophecies. They push out the minimum they can, when people are skeptical or leave because there isn't much content, the publishers barely try to do anything because they don't want to spend more, and then the game dies. They are fixated on being able to make infinite money from no effort, when they'd be better off selling actual games, and then making new games for people to buy when they finish the last one.

[@Phantus00]

The bottom line is you're either consumer friendly and therefore successful or you're focused on share holder value and guaranteed failure. Funny they refuse to see it.

[@martyb5945]

Nothing so “live” about these dead services now

[@kinmingwong6866]

And EA had the balls to say “Single-player games are dead. Players want more live service games and that’s the future” lmaoo Ohh, how the turned tables 🙃

[@ahmadrunningwild85]

Tbh it is. There is no new tales game at the moment

[@gumi_twylit2605]

@@ahmadrunningwild85 bruh, netizens must be brainwashed as fuck in this generation. Internet should be reverted back to its infancy stage.

[@dastvan8002]

EA's been banging that drum since 2012 and it hasn't gotten any less asinine since the first time

[@r3zaful]

​​@@gumi_twylit2605he is correct tho, have you seen hoyo games consistenly get 300+millions on all titles every single month simply with huge massive audiences? A single player game with update seems is what people actually wants.

[@davidjsaul]

@@kinmingwong6866 WB Games are no better. Suicide Squad flops. MK1 isn't doing great. Hogwarts does mega numbers and the only thing WB Games takes from this is "let's make Harry Potter live service too".

[@MechanicalPie]

The only live service game I’ve seen done well was Helldivers 2 because it’s built into the games’ own lore and immersion that it is fitting. A 4 player co-op sandbox game where you do missions and extract on time, with whole game world is based on a war on bugs/robots. With their new faction and enemy units coming along in the future, I can see this game last for a long time. Even if the player base is dwindling, it’s truly what you like to play that counts and I have not seen a game do it like Helldivers than any of the other games mentioned here. It’s so unique and fun, that is what counts

[@michaelbould2442]

I for one am shocked that all these awful games are struggling almost as if big companies don’t listen to gamers

[@xcellentcreations3312]

Honestly, this is a good thing since it means more single player games!

[@nekonomicon2983]

Yeah, consumers' taste and values are changing, and so the producer and gaming industry will have to change as well. Let's just all hope it's for the better.

[@pedrochevez2090]

@@nekonomicon2983Their taste and values haven’t changed. The industry just made these people think that live service games was good and trendy and the way to go. Little did they know that it never was. So if anything, gamers suckered into this way of thinking are only rediscovering gaming as it once was.

[@Woobuggy848]

Wasn’t much of a fan of live-service games that much anyway…

[@IWearTimepants]

I hope that's the case, but remember that WB doubled down on live services after the failure of Suicide Squad?

[@Nicholasmcmath-cr1xl]

I know yay is that is true

[@adampatterson2195]

Helldivers 2 could've gone much longer if Sony hadn't kneecapped it.

[@jacktheripper7935]

Well, some decisions from AH played a certain part in it too.

[@adampatterson2195]

@@jacktheripper7935 Yes, but I still consider Sony the main culprit for their decline.

[@_Cetarial]

@@adampatterson2195They are both responsible.

[@adampatterson2195]

@@_Cetarial And it’s such a shame. Helldivers 2 has such a wacky community behind it.

[@xInsane333x]

I played HD1 for a while and HD2 on release then off and on even now. The constant nerfs, constant gamebreaking bugs that I'm sure are awful to troubleshoot in the old engine, a few bad CMs, buffing things rather than fixing them (Fire damage for instance), dubious warbonds (ie lacking new armour passives and few usable new things that often were later nerfed), these are all significant issues that AH had at least some control over that contributed to the decline even before the Sony stuff went down. Significant decline was expected as with most flavour of the month big releases but neither AH nor Sony helped in that regard. It's not dead though and they've started to turn some things around with the last major patch and warbond. Hopefully they continue that trend and then I could see a big jump in numbers when Illuminates release... Or Sony quits dangling PSN over the game and frees the blocked regions.

[@scarvello]

Exactly why games feels like a mind numbing checklist over an actual enjoyable memorable experience.

[@Supperdude9]

Yet they won't do Live Service sports games, which is the genre that would benefit from such a model.

[@bloodyassault803]

I just recently got into it but a live service F1 would be awesome!

[@DarkstarArchangel]

When you are investing in a live-service, you are investing in something that requires a lot of people as in TENS OF THOUSANDS playing daily (something like Warframe). But if that same type of model is being done with multiple and numerous. . . NUMEROUS current-day products you will end up thinning the player-count for those products more and more. These companies have no common-sense, this is why singleplayer games have much more success. These companies are asking to fail, these types of products end up dying and no longer sustainable and soon-to-be unusable by the company resulting in them shutting it down. They don't want players controlling/owning the content in these products which is another middle-finger to the player-base which is another major reason why it is failing.

[@OMGWasntMe]

I agree with you completely. The biggest issue I see from major companies making live service games is that they don't put the necessary time and effort to properly fix the game after release, barely any updates or add-ons for the game, and the support is barely there for it because after release, they leave behind a skeleton crew to keep the game updated while the rest of the team moves on to the next project. Because of this method, the player-base dwindles due to lack of support post release and the company ends up shutting the game down.

[@A1stardan]

​@@OMGWasntMe I'm from a AAA gaming company. I don't get your point sir. We've put our best team/ effort into designing the in game shop. How can you complain about content, when we keep releasing new skins and battlepasses to grind with FOMO every 2 months? You're just lying at this point

[@planguy9575]

But if they get that magic game that is a success they are set for life. And if I win the lottery I'm set for life.

[@DarkstarArchangel]

@@planguy9575 The people who believe in NFTs said the same thing.

[@OMGWasntMe]

@@A1stardan How am I lying? Take Anthem, Marvels Avengers, and Suicide Squad for example. They had a full staff of developers working on the game. Once those games were released, the content became drip-fed. There was no issue charging for skins though. Those released like every week. The hot fixes\gameplay updates were decent at best, but for some of those games, the base game didn't have enough content to keep people around. YongYea has made numerous videos about it himself in regards to why specific live service games do t live up to the hype. Those are the primary reasons. Look it up for yourself if you still think I'm lying. Also, just because you may have a dedicated team for your game, doesn't mean that the same thing applies to other live service games.

[@blumoon131]

Multiversus stings pretty bad after rooting for it in beta. The relaunch was a disaster and the focus on monetization instead of *actually* fixing the game only killed it further. If it does spring back (somehow), it'll only be if the devs pull their heads out and heavily course correct.

[@MidniteMeatBus]

Nah I knew it was dead in the water before the re-release, game has always been a piece of trash

[@GamingAnimeNerd]

Multiversus is not trash. It had a rough server launch like most games. I think with time it can succeed it just needs more content.

[@BurnabyBoyZippy]

If your game is live service, I immediately do not care, and will not put 1 cent into it.

[@Velkeem]

As a current player of First Descendant, the game has some work to do but so far the devs are actually listening to their playerbase and rolling out improvements we've all been asking for. So I'd say it has a better potential future than most live service games coming out these days

[@icehour6568]

Live service had to the be worst thing that has ever happened to gaming next to MTX.

[@brianestrada1993]

Agreed and I want to add always online games or digital only games.

[@theRealSlimGordon]

On paper, live services sound good. Like imagine your favorite game getting constant new content every week or so. The problem are the companies, that use FOMO and microtransactions to force you to play. And of course, the quality is most likely garbage because the devs are usually getting rushed

[@Njin8492]

No, imo, gacha is the worst next to MTX. It's literally gambling. These live service models immitate the "corpo" "salaryman" grind, while gacha immitates the "casino" setup.

[@gumi_twylit2605]

@@theRealSlimGordon yes, only on paper. I shit you not in real world, it doesn't mostly work. This is where you start doubting if humanity have any ounce of critical thinking if this shit will even work in the long term.

[@EJ_Red]

LS games can work, even in execution and not just on paper. It is the reason why we have MMORPGs, or MMOs in general.

[@SargeWolf010]

🗿 and people wonder why I only like outdated classic games...🗿

[@thebulletkin8393]

Fr, playing through Thief 1 and 2 right now, and there’s several thousand free downloadable maps made by the community. Several hundred hours of gametime in a £5 purchase from 1997…

[@Elwaves2925]

I can't argue with that.

[@EJ_Red]

I still have my PS2 so I'm thinking of getting some games for it, Silent Hill 3 is on top of my list

[@caliberaid8527]

Got a ps2 emu w all the games I played/wanted to play growing up and games definitely changed for the worse when comparing AAA games from the 2000s vs the 2020s

[@LabMatt]

GAAS are made with the expectation that it's the only game you'll ever want to play for the rest of your life, but that's not how it works

[@TKDBoy1889]

The reality is that even if all these live services were original, engaging and offered good recurring updates- which they don't- there is still a finite number of players with finite time and finite resources. An overcrowded genre reliant on consistent engagement will inevitably collapse. Not even dedicated YT can keep up with all the slop, let alone the average adult with maybe a couple hours of daily game time

[@chiromagi7822]

YongYea: Don't make me tap the sign again. Sign: Live service competition is unsustainable, we only have so much free time in our lives.

[@sharpester7277]

A reference to the classic don't make me tap the sign meme from the Simpsons.

[@dudebruh8534]

"LOL" said the Scorpion to the AAA companies. "LMAO".

[@JasonJason210]

It's like the NFT craze a few years ago. Companies thought they could just sell the novel concept, without having a solid gaming implementation behind it.

[@ManuXinzo]

Games as services, streamers, etc. every day there's more and more supply of that for a demand that is not going to grow any more with the years

[@B1argB1arg]

Live service games require a base population of gamers to keep playing to keep it alive. The avg gamer has school/work/kids so they can only have so much time to play these live service games consistently to get the most out of it. That’s why this particular market is oversaturated and very few of these games survive. I regularly play Siege and Hunt Showdown and I can barely keep up with the content feed let alone add other live service games into my rotation.

[@rawnchydeard4669]

I don’t need a live service that sells more skins and cosmetics than provides maps for me to play. These knuckleheads don’t respect gamers and then wonder why we won’t buy into what they want to do.

[@ej7052]

_But wait, what about this special exclusive limited-time s k i n.., now in B L U E !!!_