Why System Shock Remaster Kickstarter Backers are Pissed

[@terrellfair9812]

ALL YOU HAD TO DO WAS REMAKE THE DAMN GAME CJ !!!

[@LoewenPforte]

I 2nd that

[@X_Baron]

He HAD ONE JOB.

[@fumetamax]

terrell fair True that

[@Rizimar]

"Now that we're fully funded, let's completely change our plans" Just, why?

[@theendofit]

Rizimar the o ly thing they realy changed was the engine. From the discription of the kickstarter they made it clear it was a modern ground up remake. They made it clear in the orginal page that they were going to make changes but pepole chose to hear what they wanted to hear. If they made the exact same game it would have sucked. I love the game but System shock has not aged well. They needed to fix things.

[@theendofit]

NeonMint did not say it was easy. My point was that's not an explanation for why it looked different. Unreal is a superior engine then unity by far. Theres a reason aaa devs use it while indy devs use unity. Unreal is also free to use till your game comes out. You give them a cut of profits. If you have all the materials textures and models and you port them from unity to unreal they will look near identical if you want them to. So as I said that's not why it looks difrent. And it was a smart choice most likely as there are very few long form complex games made in unity do to its many limitations.

[@theendofit]

NeonMint oh come on stop splitting hairs you know I ment most aaa devs that use somone elses engine use unreal. This is a fact there are 100s of AAA titles made on unreal. And are you telling me that at no point in any project you worked on there was a shift in things like this? I find it hard to believe your claim to be a dev then. This kind of thing happens all the time.

[@theendofit]

NeonMint no many massive studios use unreal. In fact very few big studios feel the need to waste a massive amount of time and money on reinventing the wheel For example the mass effect games are built on unreal. In fact most ea games used to be on unreal. And you dont get much bigger then ea and games dont get much bigger budgets then mass effect did.The batman games, were on it.

[@theendofit]

NeonMint unreal has been heavly used sence 2001. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games Stop moving the goal post and stop trying to brag so much. My god "our games were better then all current games we were the best devlopers to ever exist"

[@mijxero]

Step 1: get money from fans Step 2: change it and try to sell it to non-fans

[@mountanedew9793]

Like bungie with destiny 2

[@Abaris84]

There's a lot of truth in what you said, sadly.

[@theshankman8682]

step 3: kill the project and run with the money

[@kruleworld]

Like Star Trek. they keep trying to make it appeal to non-trekkies and wonder why the fans hate it.

[@NotoriousJHimself]

Basically what it seems like. Maybe they'll also rename it to DeadSpace 4.

[@diegofloor]

Not only they shouldn't have scaled up because of "all the funding" but 1.3 million is really not that much money to begin with. For a project meant to span years of production with a paid team you eat through that money very quickly.

[@alerojas2952]

diegofloor not only should not they have***

[@kruleworld]

and that's probably where they are now. most of the money has been spent and they aren't anywhere near complete.

[@wynterfoxx2517]

Better has been done with less.

[@Junebug89]

Of course, that's partly due to their scope creep and stuff though. Diegofloor is just saying that scope creeping is an especially bad idea with as small (relatively speaking) an amount of money as this.

[@dreamingflurry2729]

For such projects Kickstarter (or other crowdfunding) isn't about financing the whole project, it's about showing to publishers or investors that the project is viable ("Looky here, we've just been given x amount of money by average Joes, if you finance our project we will both make great money!")...it's like the first stage of a large rocket - you'll get off the ground with it, but you will not reach the moon with only the first stage :)

[@Calico_Crow]

So I actually have a little bit of input on this. Most of it is pretty much what is covered in this video, but I just want to confirm what I can. I did an interview with the CEO, Stephen Kick, a couple years back. Now, I'm not a very great interviewer admittedly--but there are a couple things that I caught that I never could quite shake. Nightdive originated as a company that bought the rights to classic games and re-released them with the ability to run on modern systems, effectively archiving some of the greatest gems in video game history for people to discover and enjoy again. They've done it for hundreds of games, and honestly, I don't think it was ever their intention to be malicious or greedy, because that's a pursuit that I honestly think stems from a good place. However. This reboot, as far as I'm aware, is the first full-length game they've ever done from the ground up, and following the Kickstarter, I kind of have to agree that this was a matter of constantly changing what basket their eggs were in, made worse by the fact that they have a very small staff. At one point in the interview, I asked him "What does the bio meter in the top left do? What's its function?" and Stephen replied that he didn't know. Even though the show was about getting drunk and shooting the shit, that was something that worried me, and when I saw the update saying they were switching engines, I couldn't help but think "Oh nooooo". So here's what I think happened, from talking to him. They weren't expecting to get NEARLY as much funding as they did, and with that money they saw this as an opportunity to solidify themselves as a studio that produces games, rather than brings old ones forward. But part of that is making the game appealing to a wider audience. System Shock, like this video says, was not a very commercially popular game, and I think ND didn't want to make a cult-followed game--they wanted to cast a wide net. But doing so went against everything that they promised, and I think by the time that was clear to ND, it was too late. I'm not saying people shouldn't be upset, and I'm not saying there was no wrongdoing--I just think Nightdive had a dream and an ambition, and they themselves got too caught up in it. I honestly do not think the intention was greed. Just a small group of people that had access to way more than a small studio usually has, and they ran with it. In the wrong direction.

[@ImperativeGames]

Being incompetent is bad, but being incompetent and not realising this - mortal sin for game developer. Also, how many successful games changed their engine at the middle of development? You don't even have to be competent to ask yourself that question before changing engine. Just use your brain.

[@Ch4oTiK]

The big problem is this phrase: """They weren't expecting to get NEARLY as much funding as they did, and with that money they saw this as an opportunity to solidify themselves as a studio that produces games, rather than brings old ones forward.""" Using a fundraiser based on a premise and then changing it completely due to ambition taking over, especially because they got more than they thought, is not only the very definition of greed, but it is also damn near theft in order to do so. The money was funded for a specific type of promised game. Not to solidify their company via taking that money and making their own thing. I don't blame them for their ambition. I blame them for letting their ambition drive their greed via dishonest market tactics and catch phrase justifications simply because they got more "cha-ching!" than they thought they would. If someone brings me a 1963 Corvette and pays for a nice paint job and exhaust and all the engine fixes to get her running again, and I gut it and put whatever works into a 1982 Corvette and jury rigged it to work with modern parts from other cars, I'd imagine that person would be fucking pissed no matter how much I claimed "but it's 19 years more modern and shiny! And it was more expensive too!".

[@qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqw]

Yeah basically they have no idea how to design a game and want their first game to be system shock 3...

[@TwixtheFox]

The Bombshell Brothers! It started to be clear to me that they didn't know who the fuck they were selling their games to when they released Turok 2 on steam and changed shit around, and didnt allow you to go back to the original.

[@JohnnyNatrium]

Except even in the way you describe it; it's absolutely greed. They're taking someone's money for the passion of an amazing creatively inspired game, and decide that they'd rather try to be as 'successful' as possible by gutting their project of creativity and trying to get into a AAA market. How is that not greedy?

[@GamingWithSpoons]

What do lootboxes and Kickstarters have in common? They are a game of chance where you may or may not get what you expect.

[@dogtime7061]

This is why I think more of the Patreon model. You pay as progress happens and get the chance to pull out when the creator is fucking up. There's no "I already have all your money so fuck you" issue there.

[@merionis]

a patreon funded game ? Man that would be brilliant. Well, unless game studios like EA start doing it to pump our money (well not 'our', I don't buy EA shite) directly from our bank account to deliberately make us pay longer. Oh well, that's what DLCs are anyway.

[@dokiewokie1956]

The Spoony Bard and it’s a high chance to boost

[@drakron]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Patreon ... how many scams need to happen before people realize how Patreon model is the worst one? Patreon for a game is a system were the project never ends because then the bucks stop coming, also its a system designed for a monthly subscription so milestones/progress is done solely to maintain subscriptions and the real kicker is, you are making donations ... Kickstarter at least forces the project to go or money back, if someone starts a Patreon not only they have no obligation to get the game completed (only to meet Patreon goals that is pretty much "access to our alpha build") but also its ripe for fraud since they can just make a alpha build, get the money in and then stop ... and do this as many times as they want since they arent doing anything outside taking donations, you can donate me to swim across the English Channel but that doesnt mean I have to actually do it. Kickstarter at least requires then to meet deadlines and founding goals (unlike Patreon "give me monies"), scams do exist in both but Kickstarter have more protections that Patreon because if the project doesnt reach funding goal, you get your money back ...Patreon? its a donation, no refunds.

[@jasohavents]

I think it's what's plaguing the entire industry. A bunch of art students who sit around all day making concept art and saying "Look at how cool this looks". It's a case of design failure where the designers are just designing things for the sake of designing them because lord help them if the art team doesn't make special new art! (When in reality they just needed to say "how would this look and feel new" and "How could this maintain functionality but be easier to use" but I digress)

[@SourRobo8364]

Ah, another day, another kickstarter controversy.

[@rdu239]

Gordon Shumway Kickstarter is a glorified scam disguised as a videogame project. Govt. has to step in.

[@Musicreach101]

raymund usi Gordon shumway from Alf?

[@SourRobo8364]

Manuel Koegler agreed, lootbox intervention only!

[@fyrestorme]

You can't win 'em all. But there definitely have been worth-while success stories to match the failures. That's the way it goes. If you're going to be entrepreneurial, you have to learn to take the failures with the successes.

[@luizeduardo1375]

This is more like Dumb backers controversy really. If you wanna play the original game so bad that you think a remake based on today`s standards is a bad thing, then just go play the original game... you clearly don`t care at all about it being remade since anything new will piss you off. It`s a reboot remake, not a remaster. Costumers seem to not understand what that means. It DOES NOT mean making a game 1 to 1, but remaking it for today`s audience while also making fans happy with fan-service. You can make it 100% faithful, but it does not mean you HAVE to. Again, just go play the original if you want to have the original experience.

[@gavinvitatoe2112]

"Maybe we were too successful. Maybe we lost our focus." Its not a maybe, more like a definite "you have". Your backers tried to remind you to stay on track constantly, but you got drunk on the possibility of success.

[@kelvincasing5265]

Yeah that update was really badly handled. Pretty sure when you tank your project due to bad management it's not you being "too successful"

[@stephenclark3230]

I understand some people want to defend the developers, but these are the facts: Funding came entirely from consumer donations with a set plan outlined for the product they were investing in. I do not know if it's legally enforceable, but money was asked for with a strict understanding/interpretation of what donators' money was being invested in, which is a form of financial contract. Essentially the developers do not or should not have any say in the direction and development of this product beyond what was originally promised. To do otherwise, however 'well intented, would be breaking a financial contract. So it doesn't matter how cool it would be for them to break promises to their consumers... that's bad business; you just don't do it.

[@estudiordl]

Stephen Clark Well said. If they had the ambition of doing something different, they'll be allow to do it with the earnings from the sales of the promised game.

[@HiragamaIkunai]

I believe what your looking for is false advertisement and failing to deliver on a product that was paid for a exchange of money is in many places a form of contract.

[@nicholasdoss3312]

Thank the gods No Man's Sky wasn't crowd funded by kickstarter...would have been far worse than it already was at launch

[@shadowl1980]

Hine why I've never done crowd funding. Too many lowlife's out there.

[@maxluong2]

Well was there a strict understanding? A defined meaning of remake? I dont think so and that is the core of the problem.

[@jonathanwilson490]

Feature Creep, it has killed many a game, let's hope they can cut the fat and get to the meat of the game.

[@saligonth]

Jonathan Wilson *cough* Star Citizen *cough*

[@Darktotaled]

Alone in the dark for xbox360

[@jamesrussell2936]

I think feature creep is probably the biggest killer of games.

[@hypnotoad28]

They should literally just side-by-side recreate the game in their new engine.

[@jakkank]

Yandere Simulator as well.

[@EvilRickQueenVita]

"The project is not dead, just temporarily stopped" I really hate when Kickstarter devs say this.

[@sonokawaray]

It's not dead, it's resting.

[@Nersius]

Has there ever been a KS where that wasn't a lie?

[@chuuko7294]

sonokawaray it's just resting... Forever

[@Durzel]

“Indefinitely suspended”

[@frogman0010]

This is why i dont trust kickstarter

[@OneCut1Slash]

Steven Ashby Yup, i refuse to support anything Kick Starter or go fund Me

[@mephisto2872]

Steven Ashby Path of Exil, Shovel Knight, Wasteland 2 and Divinty: Original Sin 2 are really successful Kickstarter Projects.

[@virginiasaintj]

Mephisto Exceptions, not the rule.

[@chemergency]

The devs of those games had most of the work done for them already though, they only used crowdfunding as a donation platform to help the game's distribution once it was done being-developed. Which is the only thing that really makes sense for this sort of thing.

[@enigmabloom]

When you pitch a project to an audience, cater to that same audience. Stop trying to please everyone, especially to those who don't even know what they want. Let a game succeed and attract new players on its own merits.

[@sumpmiffot]

THIS right here

[@cooliohunter86]

We are going to take a vacation, thank you for your 1.3 million dollars.....

[@LateNightHalo]

Jeremy Hunter that’s not even close to what he said. It’s smart to take a step back and “clear your head of all he bad ideas” before returning to a project. It’s quite good that they recognized the mistakes they were making that the boss made the choice to slam on the brakes

[@Trails3rdFanboy]

@@LateNightHalo so basically he took the money and fled :)

[@LateNightHalo]

Nick T and yet he didn’t “flee” Enough with the deliberate misinterpretations. You and I BOTH know you aren’t that stupid... are you?

[@Matt-cn2nn]

@@Trails3rdFanboy You realise development on the game is more or less going well now, right? They had a fully playable alpha build ready as early as this September, not bad for something slated for 2020. I know a lot of Kickstarter people cut and run, but not this time.

[@LateNightHalo]

Nick T “corporate talk” they’re indie. Oh, they also resumed development so... yeah.. you’re simply wrong :) You also unironically used the term “autistic” as an insult like some tiny child. Someone’s got anger issues 🤷‍♀️

[@Azariachan]

All I want from this is a faithful remake with modern controls. That's literally it. How hard is it?

[@123doomdoom]

Apparently next to impossible. KEK

[@anarchyandempires5452]

123doomdoom actually I kind of is, the original game was clunky as fuck and pretty shit compared to modern games, it would get slaughtered by modern reviewers and fail miserably on it's sales.

[@chickenkurry6451]

“How hard is it” ok lol you make it?

[@Azariachan]

CHICKEN KURRY Don't be an idiot, please. Remaking a game 1:1 is easier than coming up with a brand new idea because you already have the levels and characters designed, music composed, story written... you just copy that shit and make it nicer. So yeah, I ask again how hard is that?

[@chickenkurry6451]

Azariachan ok you do it...

[@Rokabur]

That Unity demo looked pretty atmospheric. The Unreal demo on the otherhand looked a generic current gen shooter.

[@Madara-yf6yn]

Rokabur they both did

[@FloorFerret]

Not really? Both really lacked a lot. The unreal one could be changed to fit quite easily. It's a decent enough base to move off from and, to be honest...people gravely overstate the 'gritty' aspect of SS1. It's atmosphere came from ALOT more than just its visuals alone.

[@superdude3147]

Unity had blue filter

[@FloorFerret]

Since that can't be added or removed in an instant lol. Again, one was a product of nearly 4x the amount of work. No shit it had more involved in it.

[@zoltanz288]

Rokabur the unity footage was fake. The unreal one was actual gameplay.

[@DragonBallG69]

Why do devs always have to bite off more than they can chew? Just remaster the original fucking game! No one is asking for extra bells and whistles. Fuck sakes.

[@dmitry-z]

Butt-Dumpling Fart-Goblin have you ever played the original system shock? It is a little hard on the modern gaming conventions like mouse look. It does need a little more than just a retexture.

[@Jekyll_Jackal]

thank you it's like resident evil 2 all over again

[@kos2919]

Butt-Dumpling Fart-Goblin It felt like how movie writers and directors in the 80s and 90s rewrite adaptations into their own vision even when it's shitting on fans royally.

[@rdu239]

Butt-Dumpling Fart-Goblin "our vision began to change..." yes, after getting more than enough donation to your supposedly target fund, yes indeed your vision changed now doesnt it?...

[@john6372]

i give it a 1/10 chance this project survives development, a shame...

[@sandwichboy1268]

This is a good example of how NOT to run a Kickstarter project. They basically just kept saying "we're listening" while continuing with their vision. Not their original vision, mind you.

[@joaobatistaperinjunior953]

The ghost of Mighty 9 atacks once again *Starts to get worried about Bloodstained*

[@skelaton7242]

Joao Batista Perin Junior it's gonna be trash.

[@shashemption]

Least people got Mighty.

[@NeutralGuyDoubleZero]

Joao Batista Perin Junior +Skela Ton The difference between mighty and bloodstsined is that inafune wasn't a main developer or designer. Bloodstained is actually being done by the main guy behind it all. Plus it isn't promising 10 ports all at once. Bloodstained is gonna be just fine.

[@skelaton7242]

NeutralGuyDoubleZero true

[@zefanyalt5944]

NeutralGuyDoubleZero kojima?? Did you mean igarashi or inafune?

[@KnoxCarbon]

And despite all the development problems, the game was still fuckin great.

[@bigalzo5311]

''people love our demo and it's looks. Now let's destroy it''

[@Choppytehbear1337]

"Modern Level design." So, a series of linear corridors?

[@JohnnyNatrium]

I laughed so hard. Level design isn't even a thing anymore. It's hilarious to see "Modern" in the same phrase as "level design" for this type of game.

[@telephonebitguy9296]

this game actually had one of the best level design, of course they are fuckin it up

[@Insanemembrane93]

And don't forget microtransactions and RNG

[@actualFix]

@@Insanemembrane93 Why is RNG bad?

[@dishonorableknight9340]

@@actualFix Why is RNG good?

[@bumblequeen3287]

I love System Shock 2, but I never played the first System Shock, so a 1:1 remaster would have been awesome. The Unity footage looked pretty great, now it looks like Alien Isolation. After the Thief 2014 reboot/sequel(/who cares?) I worry about these kind of games. Just stick to what made the original fun and interesting while being true to the style of the game and people will be happy. Maybe that's easier said than done, but people paid for a *remaster*, not a completely different game.

[@Fickji]

I shudder to think of the day when Castlevania: Symphony of the Night gets it's own "Remaster" that turns into a reboot/sequel/hybrid of another game entirely. Also, hello fellow thief. I was burned by Thief 2014 as well. Terrible Dishonored clone as it was.

[@SpartanWolf222]

You can right now play a 1:1 remaster by the same developers. Look up the Enhanced Edition on Steam. Then you'll understand why change would be a good thing.

[@bumblequeen3287]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I have no problem with devs going in and changing the graphics or controls and whatnot. What I do have a problem with is devs that take a classic game that brought something unique to the table and then decide to suck its soul out, turning it into just another generic horror FPS, which is what the Unreal version of this System Shock looks like so far. I'm not going to pretend that the original System Shock was a masterpiece, it's in dire need of a makeover, but you can give an old game a makeover while still keeping it's soul intact. If Nightdive did what Bluepoint did with Shadow of the Colossus, that would be great. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, but I don't feel optimistic about it.

[@Agamemnon2]

People need to realize that sometimes you cannot go back. Let the past die. Burn it if you have to. Slavish adherence to long-dead design principles is how you create a Yooka-Laylee, a project that pleased its KS backers and mostly bored the general public.

[@1300l]

I don't agree on that. Just play the original game if you want 1:1 I like the photo realism reimagination. SS1 is 24 years old, there are cracks on it design and it show. But than again, ppl are never happy and bitch about anything. Unreal engine is superior to Unity. The 1:1 remake look faithfull.. kind of... but it also lose the charm of the original and there for, why not just play the original? I also dont get why some games ppl accept it and others dont. The FF7 remake so far look as bland, photorealistic and with new mechanics instead of the old ones... but ppl love it.

[@koroplays3200]

photorealism is not always good.

[@TheVanillatech]

Do you know what the ethos of the SS games actually is?

[@giancarloamaya1774]

@@santilmunine3936 Escape from tarkov seems to be fine on unity, they only moved for the console players.

[@fr33kSh0w2012]

@@santilmunine3936 I'd like to add IF you read all the UNITY DOCUMENTATION and didn't skim past it you idiot YOU would know what was wrong!

[@Azariachan]

@@santilmunine3936 Lmao a genius has spoken... So how many games have you made in Unity that you can judge it? I'll hazard a guess and say exactly zero. There have been some incredible games made in Unity (Ori and the Blind Forest, Hearthstone, Cuphead, Inside to name a few), you just need to not be a total fucking idiot and know what you're doing.

[@shushiara]

What's ironic is that the Unity build looked more photorealistic, yet a lot like a System Shock game

[@JellyJonesey]

I'm suprised people still back videogame kickstarter projects.

[@insertnamehere8723]

JellyJonesey Preordering is worse

[@weirdeurasianboy8091]

I'm suprised how easy it is in general to please gamers and get them hyped up with a well-crafted trailer and a marketing campaign. Not only will gamers eat it up, anybody who dares expresses cautious pessism gets fucking crucified. It's pathetic.

[@BlownMacTruck]

@ So? You can wait until it's released.

[@oliver_twistor]

@@BlownMacTruck _If_ it gets released. The point of Kickstarter is to get the funding needed. Of course, if you see that a Kickstarter already has met its goal and all the stretch goals you are content with, there is little reason to pledge to Kickstarter rather than buy the released game.

[@oliver_twistor]

I've backed many video game Kickstarters and only one more-or-less confirmed failure and one that I'm unsure of. It's not only video game Kickstarters that run the risk of failure. I've backed other types of projects that have failed as well. This is the nature of crowd-funding (or investments in general), you never know if it will be a gem or a waste of money. I'm not talking about actual scams on Kickstarter, where the "creators" simply pockets the money and run for the hills. They're fraudulent and Kickstarter really should do much more in helping backers get their money back. Also, Kickstarter should build a sort of reputation system, so creators could earn reputation if their previous campaigns were successes. Of course, that could easily be circumvented by creating new creator profiles, but at least it's something to try to avert the scammers.

[@VernulaUtUmbra]

I'm not even backing that project and hearing about this pisses me off.

[@gamerzero9764]

Sounds like a Might No. 9 situation. The only difference is is the studio is being upfront about it.

[@DIAMONDGEZER]

In other words - all the money is gone and second kickstarter fund raising is incoming. Morale of the story:- just play the original

[@Cknight700]

CEO followed through now we have a great game lets gooo

[@mattuiop]

I honestly don't mind a reimagining over a remake if it means features of the original that didn't age well are cut. But it's a bit annoying that kickstarters just turn into a complete mute like that.

[@xedrickOG]

i mind. they changed the artstyle completely to the point that the new style DIDNT EVEN HAVE THE SAME ATMOSPHERE OR FEEL OF SYSTEM SHOCK! It looked and felt like dead space, which is a COMPLETELY different kind of horror game. On top of that the mutants now look like generic space zombies with no clothes. Before, you could TELL that these things were former members of the citadels crew and that something horrid had happened. Before they even had the fucking crewmans jumpsuits on and the environments felt like the lofi-scifi look the original had, which is an enviroment type we havent had since the likes of the original system shock. The original had such an original feel to them and to top it off THEY DESIGNED THE GAME WORLD TO BE A SPACE STATION FIRST AND A LEVEL LATER! Theyre clearly going the wrong way with level design as level design in these past 20 years has actually REGRESSED! Hell, even the medbots were immediatly recognizable as being the medbots from the original.

[@JohnSmith-ox3gy]

If you start cutting everything that "didn't age well" you'll be getting deadspace 4.

[@REAN909]

And who the hell are you? the people who backed the project were fans of the original who wanted to support the developers fulfilling their wishes by recreating the same good old game in a modern engine, this was what the money have been given for!! not to create a totally different modern game with the same name as the old one, those who backed the game have the right to ask for what they paid for and they have the right to be pissed when it does not happen.

[@JohnSmith-ox3gy]

?آبو زهرة Like Chris Roberts did

[@REAN909]

What do you mean?

[@JuwanBuchanan]

A lesson to be learned here... be careful who you support on Kickstarter people.

[@Blballerboy]

Divine_Wrath that’s I’ve never backed a single thing on Kickstarter :/

[@JuwanBuchanan]

+DamianG Are you? Do you even know what the word means?

[@Rune77]

I just simply don't support anyone. I'm a asshole and I'm proud.

[@rezasaputra8314]

i support the cherry team for Hollow Knight for PC on kickstarter, and it turn out to be one of the best games last year, but yeah it is 1 of 1000 chance

[@KaiserAfini]

Shovel Knight was Kickstarted, so was Hollow Knight, if everyone had such a binary system as you suggest, we would have lost far more than 2 great games.

[@Noncod]

This is the first YongYea video that doesn't have the word "Lootboxes" in the title in years lmao.

[@prplfleur]

Inaccurate

[@GammaRingHunter]

That's so hyperbolic wtf, yesterday was a Witcher vid

[@Bloodhurl67]

Finally

[@Noncod]

Oh yeah I mean this is the first YongYea video that doesn't have "Lootboxes" or "Microtransactions" in the title in years.

[@bandorando6405]

Apparently, joking isn’t a thing anymore. You guys need to chill and stop taking things so damn literally. Yeah, YongYea has LITERALLY not uploaded any videos without loot boxes in ACTUAL YEARS. Smh...Idiots.

[@Yeshalot]

"please accept my personal assurance that we will be back and stronger than ever" yeah because your assurance means anything now? after basically lying to your backers pretending development is going good..... why the fuck would his personal assurance make anyone who has been burned so far by supporting this game feel better? especially after having "the team go on hiatus"? god i'm so sick and tired of how fucking sleazy these head honchos are. if you want us to have faith in you and your return, rather the games future then give us something to be faithful for. this entire story just reeks.

[@ronnieDaking]

Well i trust warrent spector more then i do Kojima

[@mvnkycheez]

It's really depressing. At least we can trust that SS3 will be done. I also backed Underworld Ascendant and it is actually coming along really well. Looks exactly how they advertised it to be.

[@9TDF]

From 2023. Reboot rocks

[@troin3925]

Matt needs to make a What Happened video about the rocky development of this game that ends up turning out great.

[@KaiserAfini]

Not ignore the strides forward in the last 20 years ? Ummm, compared to what Looking Glass achieved immersion wise, many modern AAA games can be pretty terrible. Looking Glass' design has a lot to teach the modern industry. Look at the original 3 Thief games, look at the remake, strides, riiiiiiiiight, what have they been drinking and how have their livers survived so long ?

[@HowlingDoom]

Having never olayed the old Thief what is exactly wrong with the remastered theif? I played quite a bit of the new Thief and liked it a lot

[@KaiserAfini]

The original is one of the most immersive games I have ever played, from the GUI, to the story, to the level design, everything is there for a very deliberate reason. The end result in one of the deepest, most compelling, atmospheric game trio ever created. Its mature, subtle, intelligent, every spot is dense with details. I would like to recommend a video called "Thief vs the AAA industry" by Dom Giuca, it will explain far better than I ever could why it is a timeless masterpiece that all game developers can learn from. And lastly, I highly recommend you play them, I cannot praise them enough. Stick to them despite the dated graphics and you will find one of the finest stealth games ever crafted. Have you played Dishonored ? It takes A TON of cues from Thief (it should, same devs). You know what other game did as well ? The first Bioshock. So if you like those, seek the roots of their awesomeness.

[@HowlingDoom]

KaiserAfini Aye thanks I'll look into the older games and the video.

[@HelloChief117]

Hey, if you want a good example of how many steps backwards "modern" gaming has taken, go play the first FEAR and look at its AI behavior, which *ONE GUY* designed. Outdated Japanese-themed horror aside, it makes modern AI look utterly retarded by comparison. The greedy half-goblins that run the "AAA" (I put quotation marks because I think it just gets worse and worse for each passing year) industry these days only care about profit instead of innovation because they can impress their equally stupid followers with shiny, yet shallow graphics.

[@WilliamBrayton]

Uhhh, Monolith had 5 AI engineers which is far larger than most studios.

[@WolfHunner]

The new build looks like DOOM now.

[@AlyMar1994]

I thought I was the only one who noticed the similarities in the looks; then again, it isn't hard now-a-days to find an engine that doesn't have realistic-esque volumetric lighting, and high-fidelity textures (even on a place such as cgtextures.com or whatever).

[@maximusZ09]

one of the backers here, after they announced that they are going to appease to the modern audience I was like, "I will quit following the news of the development" seems like it's dead now

[@CaveyMoth]

Yeahh..I also quit following the news, too. I just wanted to wait and see what happens. And not much has happened. Dang it. Still going with the pipe and humanoid mutants...

[@NotAFakeName1]

maximusZ09 I'm not a backer but when I learned of the project I just hoped they'd do something like system shock 2 with the first games story and setting.

[@maximusZ09]

YongYea pretty much summarized it the unity engine demo is why most of us backed the game, then... UE4, I'm neutral on this one, as long as they know how to make the atmosphere good, but then, going to modernize the game is what sets it off for me

[@riderwolfseeker5066]

For anyone who wants to do a remake or remaster.Look at the crash bandicoot insane trilogy.

[@Fizzlepop72]

maximusZ09 modernized doesn't always mean ruined

[@davidebombardelli8255]

Good news guys! I came from th future and the remake is currently developing well

[@tedhumphreys1473]

Set for this summer! The demo is lots of fun!

[@NeoRidero]

modern gamers this, modern gamers that, it's all about them. All of the great games become shit because that's what "modern gamers" like, this is sickening. I'm no System Shock fan, nor did i even know the game before this video, but the fact that they promised a remake and then changed half way for "modern gamers" disgusts me. I'd be furious if this was a childhood game of mine that I backed up, I pay for a game that looked like what i want, i don't pay for the game to become unoriginal garbage for "modern gamers"

[@Zockopa]

Probably the team had skill and talent for unity engine but it was decided to switch to U-engine and the skill and talent abandoned ship in protest leaving the team with people who couldnd cope. Who knows what happened behind the curtain ? But yeah,i played the old unity engine demo and it was perfectly fine. I bet it was the demo that impressed a lot of people into backing the project. Its just logical that those got pissed and saw themselves betrayed.

[@NeoRidero]

We don't know what happened for sure, but it's still unacceptable. They have no excuse for this, clearly they're posers, they can't see what "made system shock so great" even though they keep saying it. Even for me who doesn't know anything about the game, the switch from unity to unreal engine made me sick, it went from cool looking unique game that i'd buy to unoriginal garbage that everyone's already played, and that i sure as hell ain't gonna touch. I bet they're gonna find a way to put microtransactions in this somehow later down the line.

[@avengeddisciple]

To be honest, it's most likely they bit off more than they could chew. NightDive is known mainly for their ports of older games to modern systems, or slight remasters of titles like Turok to make them playable. Doing an actual remake with their own tech is something they thought they could do, and it probably spiraled out of control to the point where they have to actually step back and pull a head out of ass maneuver.

[@rhaeven]

I didn't back this, but I did see the demo and KS page while it was still being funded. It was obvious that they were remaking the game with faithful setting, tone and storyline, but with modern gameplay and design. Anyone who backed this expecting "HD UPSCALE AND FIX BUGS ONLY PLZ" was dumb.

[@HankJ666]

The fault is not "modern gamers" but developers "thinking" they know what that audience want I'm 24, I'm as old as System Shock itself, people would probably call me a "modern gamer" as well as they probably would put me in the same bag as a 12 year old buying every single CoD released I didnt asked them to change to UE4 I liked the looks of the original demo, and even tho I'm not a backer I could download it (There's a post in the SS steam forum wich explains how to do so check it out if you want) That decission was something THEY made, because THEY wanted to sell the game on consoles as well, not because "modern gamers" wanted them too Blaming stuff on "ur generation" is always stupid, the ones fucking up are the developers, not the players, NO ONE wants loot boxes, NO ONE likes to have games downgraded, NO ONE likes to have a kickstarter project being abandoned If you are going to blame someone, blame the developers for thinking they know what people want, not the ones who had no say in THEIR decisions

[@xxnike0629xx]

@YongYea I don't bother paying money for KickStarter projects. Way too often they end up being delayed, canceled, or not what they originally promise.

[@rdu239]

xxnike629xx You know whats even worse? NO REFUND! they'll take your money

[@chillhour6155]

Same goes for season passes

[@Esguardian]

I backed zombicide black plague,massive darkness;I got everything that was promised and it was delivered on schedule. The question is : In who can you trust to deliver/make it happen ?

[@xKinjax]

Who exactly do you expect to refund you and out of what money? Projects on KS don't just fail a month after they're funded, they fail years later after all the money has been spent. The lesson here is to only back projects from developers you know have delivered in the past, studios like Obsidian, inXile or Larian. Don't get "baited in" by a few pieces of nice artwork, big promises and "early bird" deals. If something looks overambitious/shady it probably is.

[@Goldenfish300]

xKinjax Sometimes even that doesn't quite work out. I thought a certain other project that's spiraled out of control and reality had a proven dev behind it. You have to look at it as it is, giving money to a kickstarter is a donation with the potential for a payback, an investment in a new project. Like any other investment, it can go under taking your cash with it It's not a purchase, which is how some people see it. If you don't like the risk in that, then it's not for you. You'll inevitably be upset when something you back fails.

[@4horsemenoftheapocalypse58]

"Hey someone I never met on the Internet needs money for such-and-such, what can possibly go wrong?"

[@MasterBossVT]

Jesus Christ... just do a damn 1:1 remake. It's not rocket science. But noooooooooooooooooo. Let's change the whole game to attract a lot of casual gamers who do not even know what System Shock is. Years and years later and the project is still a complete mess. Good job.

[@mvnkycheez]

They made Prey for that! Why bother??

[@brdfnick3886]

if you want to appeal both, the only way is release two seperately games, one for older gamers, and one for newer games who play latest games. you cannot appeal both of them with a single game without screwing the game up, least, mostly.

[@SuperBearPoo]

Gotta love how he said he didn't regret the switch from Unity to Unreal, but in the very next sentence he describes how it led to all of their problems. Also gotta love the classic excuse of "I did it for all the right reasons!". Trust your cynical, pessimistic gut feelings on this one. Take my word for it, you're not going to ever hear from that developer again. They've burned through all of their money, and unless they somehow manage to find a publisher, we're never going to see the game. The only reason why he put development on hiatus instead of immediately correcting course is to buy enough time for them to fade into obscurity and for people to forget about the whole thing until they finally remember and by that point it'll be too late.

The switch wasn't the problem. Their change from "let's remake this, in the spirit of the original System Shock" to "let's make a new game, loosely based on System Shock, and in the spirit of Looking Glass Studios".

[@SixFootTurkey_]

Lmao how fucking ignorant can you be? You wrote this in what, August? Night Dive resumed development way back in April -- releasing 10 Kickstarter updates including a playable alpha test for backers -- and is doing exactly what they promised their backers from the start. "Not going to ever hear from them again" my ass.

[@danielmihalko9058]

It seems like so many development studios, once they get that fat check, start going crazy and lose sight of the original vision. Money makes them go crazy and their lifestyle changes, and they want to do things to make tons more money instead of settling for what they already got.

[@Luipaard005]

Every time devs change their game engine midstream it always leads to disaster. Every time.

[@taesu8]

Luipaard005 like Daikatana and Duke Nukem.

[@Toliman.]

Or Mass Effect Andromeda, LA Noire, DNF, Star Citizen, Half Life, Prey, etc. I get why they failed, it's really deeply important to have the concept and the team experience... before you hit a refactor as extreme as an engine switch. Engine switches are great for education and bringing out what's critical, good or just plain important, but it's extremely brutal when you have deadlines or salaries. Switching from U4/5 to UE4 puts every single piece of work in the trash until you decide if it works in the new "systems", and forces you to spend even more time deciding what works, and it can easily take 4-6 months to get back to where you were if your team hasn't picked up enough skills in the new engine toolkit, i.e. animation and asset teams need to re-export, coders need to reattach and add custom controllers and AI/kinematics to get characters back, art and scene building has to be redone, and you need to relearn the merge/build systems to keep up-to-date. All of that is modular in Unity 4/5, but it's also dogshit slow in Unity 4/5 because it's not integrated as much as Unreal 4 is. That said, if you're building a side-scroller platformer, UE4 is going to give you nightmares. The advantage of UE4 is that you can build FPS fast, but not much else due to having to construct odd functional blueprint systems and test their effectiveness, but then again, you get the advantage of better performance and rapid prototyping of level design, weapons, assets, menus, and UI components. That said, if you need to do anything remotely custom or connect to a database, or anything beyond a walking simulator / shooter, UE4 is not the engine to choose unless you have 10 programmers for each task to push through the awful nature of UE4. But Hey, 1.5 million will solve all those problems for 6-12 months, right ?

[@Oban2006]

taesu8 Duke nukem is barely a good example

[@noop9k]

Michael Guy Half Life did not switch the engine. They developed the Quake engine they licensed incrementally, turning it into Source.

[@noop9k]

Michael Guy Building sidescroller in Unity is equally horrible job, even if done by many. It is also primarily a shooter engine with data representation, physics engine decided for you in advance. Both engines are overcomplicated and wasteful for 2D, even if Unity now integrates a bunch of 2D-specific optimizations. Working with 2D is still a kludge.

[@defoley5]

"We stole your money, didn't listen to you and now we're walking away", watch them all get jobs with a AAA studio.

[@SpoopySquid]

defoley5 They'd fit right in at EA

[@JohnDoe-ys1vb]

Y'know too much skeptically is a bad thing. It could go either way, but remember the devs didn't disappear and instead wrote an apology, so I would say give them the benefit of the doubt.

[@ronnieDaking]

defoley5 Dude half the Devs are in there 50s

[@dycedargselderbrother5353]

Exactly how many Kickstarters have we seen with apology after apology, sometimes extending for years, before the thing shuts down? How many Kickstarters work out when instead of reaching milestones they keep switching devkits?

[@JohnDoe-ys1vb]

So we just assume it's a slippery slope? they're not at that stage yet. Assuming that is like assuming all kickstarters will end up at the point this team is at. Plus this isn' like other kickstarters where they give weak excuses, they had legitimate complaints and then talked about those being mistakes. If your team was in this position, it would be the right thing to do.

[@JCDenton2012Modder]

The safeword is Skynet.

[@futonrevolution7671]

JC, Stephen Kirk's a bum!

[@tomsnider9213]

The killphrase is Lilliputian Machine.

[@Loot1377]

Kickstarter proving that it's not just politicians who will promise you things and fail to deliver. Did anybody learn NOTHING from Mighty Number 9?

[@oneaccount1049]

Christopher Tooley of course not, gamers are dumb cattle. Just look at how the industry abuse them, loot boxes, half baked games, Kickstarter scams, etc. Good thing some of them are waking up.

[@toose8388]

Great job reading us their kickstarter page! I've always wanted an audiobook format of those. I particularly liked the bit near the end where you read the entirety of their latest update, then proceed to paraphrase it for those of us who didn't understand it on the first go. Stellar analysis!

[@crane8819]

When a game is considered a classic it's best to either leave it alone or remake it faithfully like Bluepoint did with Shadow of the Colossus. When you change the game too much it takes away everything that made it a classic to begin with.

[@sunyavadin]

Even that has its issues with the changes to the mood and tone of some scenes with the new lighting. Something so small can have a noticeable impact. When you completely change the aesthetic of something being sold on nostalgia though, you are on to a loser right out of the gate.

[@milesgreenaway6008]

They played us like a damn fiddle

[@nickpastorino5370]

Yep, if backers would support projects that only ask for a little money and a realistic plan instead of ones that ask for a million dollars and post fancy demos that don't prove anything they would actually get something. But no, most backers are dumbasses who solely judge a campaign by it's cover without looking deeper. Find a campain starter with a good vision, not a fancy demo or screenshots.

[@ThePineappleKnight932]

Guys... Just take system shock, streamline the controls slightly to compensate for less buttons, and put it on consoles. There are people on console who want a complex RPG with complex level design and a strong artstyle. You don't need a shiny hyper realistic engine. You don't need all of these bells and whistles. You just need system shock...

[@bubuasqw123]

play Prey 2017

[@bubuasqw123]

one of the best games of 2017 with the name of the shittiest franchise in history. what a shame.

[@bubuasqw123]

A game is shit because of its name? just go play prey and shut up idiot!

[@bubuasqw123]

Reality is that Prey 2017 by Arkane Studios is a great game. Don't know the problem with human Head Studios. But you are missing one of the best games of 2017. is fucking good. Don't be fool just play it. Arkane studios don't have nothing to do with the name of the game, I suppose they wwere forced to use it. Game is good don't miss it!

[@ThePineappleKnight932]

EA sucks, but Zerglings still are cute. Prey isn't a bad game. It's pretty good.

[@Halauris]

The game came out fine.

[@darkempire4182]

Duh it's 5 years later dude

[@Halauris]

@@darkempire4182 it could have come out terrible. Duke Nukem forever?

[@matiasnl]

@@darkempire4182 Then I guess Skull and Bones is a quad A super mega smash hit amazing game

[@KaoticReach1999]

If Resident Evil 2 Remake sucks or has loot boxes like Revelations I’m gonna be pissed, I only want modern controls not modern scams

[@bombabombom3603]

FUCKING THANK YOU. SOMEBODY FUCKING GETS IT. Just give me the game. I don't give a god damn how sparkly squeaky clean you want to make it look. Give me what I payed for, fucking whore mongers.

[@kindredspirit9544]

What do you think of it now?

[@bombabombom3603]

@@kindredspirit9544 All I know is that the new update from the devs absolutely shows that studios have the common sense when they need to realize that they don't need to be so cocky with their fans' expectations when they receive full support, and I absolutely congratulate them for retaining the faithful roots rather than trying to be the next DOOM (4). (Not saying DOOM is bad in anyway whatsoever, just saying that the graphical notion on the "crisper fidelity" bullshit doesn't need to be applied to every reboot project ever) And if you were talking about RE2 RE, I wanna throw my 2 cents and say I am hyped as hell for that game. It looks like there was actual love put into it. From how it portrays itself in the gameplay footage, to have RE4 gameplay mix with the world of Raccoon City in full 3D and implement a RE7-style urgency throughout the entire playfield (Mr. X following you throughout the entire game rather than segmented points in different rooms) it all screams fullproof restoration. It's going to be detrimental if it ends up being disappointing, but I have high anticipation, and if I'm still able to pre-order before it comes out on Steam, I know I'll be heavily invested.

[@TheN1ghtwalker]

I really hope you choked on your words

[@TheN1ghtwalker]

@@Pretzelcoatlus Never forget to take your pills, dude.

[@metazare]

Sounds like they owe backers 1.3 million dollars.

[@xsorakazamax7522]

Metazare I believe it's considered a donation

[@metazare]

Hm...I'm not sure tbh. There have been cases in the past where backers got money returned to them after they put up a stink about it, rare occasions mind you but it has happened. Perhaps the possibility of having your money returned to you is entirely up to the integrity of the company asking for it. It's a damn shame this has happened though, night dive has taken some old gems and polished them up pretty well.

[@xsorakazamax7522]

Metazare I don't think they've given up honestly I think it's just over reactions. People were stressing them the hell out lol

[@gregkun1]

*sigh* So instead of sticking to the damn plan. That was already laid out for them. They wanted to fluff the game out more when they know they should not have. They couldn't decide which engine to use. Which they could have easily said. " Hey! Backers, which engine you like better for this game?" Solved that debate instantly. (I personally liked the Unity engine over the Unreal.) Get the game made and done for the PC first. Then as corporate fashion publishers want to stick their dick in the pie. They could of used their money to port the game to the consoles and not waste the Kickstarter money to get what they paid for. Dev's need to have a lockdown on their projects. Nothing new going in or out during these periods of crucial development. Once work is done and some idea comes along that can't be implemented within a week after the initial work is done, it gets rejected. A remake should be like a coloring book. Just fill in the horse with colors to complete the picture. *NOT!!* Try to turn it into a unicorn pegasus.

[@DeathBringer769]

Yep, they could have settled for just a smaller PC-only Unity release... but no. They got near their funding target and wanted more and more... probably killing the project. Releasing on PC plus both major consoles AND switching engines mid-dev is WAY more time/effort/money.

[@farhatrizvi2896]

+Thomas DivelBiss So you think people are stupid huh?I am sorry to say this but most people have actual brain cells unlike you dumbass.

[@Taikaru]

Crowd-funding kickstarted a new golden age of gaming. Divinity Original Sin, FTL, Kingdom Come Deliverance, Sunless Sea, Pillars of Eternity, Hand of Fate, Dex, Cosmic Star Heroine, Xenonauts are just a few examples of the excellent, unique, and usually DRM and lootbox-free experiences we could never have enjoyed were it up to the big publishers. In turn, that competition has forced "mainstream" games to improve, contributing to the incredible lineup we got in 2017. 9 out of 10 businesses fail, so it shouldn't be a surprise even if the majority of games fell short... but in my book, the results we've enjoyed totally make it worth the risk to invest.

[@TheRezro]

Also Freedom Planet.. first good Sonic game from ages ;D PS: I know about the Mania, but that is later story.

[@PhoenixMalizia]

I had the "feature creep" experience with another Kickstarter I backed which had to do with the making of a documentary related to a hobby of mine. They exceeded their minimum funding requirement by about 25% - but instead of simply doing the documentary that they'd promised to do, they ended up literally doubling the travel, interview sites, etc. that they'd originally budgeted for - including a trip to Germany that was supposed to be a stretch goal in the event that they had greatly exceeded their minimum funding amount (which they didn't). By the time all was said and done, they'd burned through all of their money, with nothing left over for editing, post-processing, DVD mastering, etc. Then they had the nerve to fire up another crowdsourcing (on Indiegogo this time) to try to get another 50% to finish making the documentary - which of course got very little backing, because almost none of us who backed the original were inclined to give them another penny.

[@SpaceOink]

This is July the 7th, 2019, and we are still waiting.

[@dark-cn9yq]

Probably still more complete than ff7 remake

[@tokidensetsu]

And just like FF7 remake, it got wrecked when they tried to "appeal to a new audience". It wasn't a "new audience" that backed the project, just like it wasn't a "new audience" that looked for a FF7 remake with every new console release. Quite frankly, I hope Square would do like the people responsible for the .HACK remakes, They did an amazing job.

[@Rune77]

They said the ff7 remake is in pretty good development.

[@fireballs7346]

Speaking of remake wtf is going on with resident evil 2 remake

[@chemergency]

I heard Square Enix had those devs working on the game, and kicked them off due to "conflicting vision" or some shit. A huge red flag and the episodic shit they were talking about has really soured my anticipation for it to the point I just don't care.

[@kingslayer1420]

Lol.

[@danielbeaver3152]

Kojima just uploaded a picture(Instagram i believe)a computer screen editing footage of Mads in Mo-Cap. Yong, you need to go see this image, look at the audio file and replicate and play it backwards so we can figure out Death Strandings release date! Come on, just do it!!! It's Kojima, would it really be that wierd?!?!

[@Dan_Geer_]

You really think it's possible for Kojima to do anything at all without Yong noticing?

[@n00bfishie]

I backed this project. No regrets about that. That said, Nightdive's ambition got the better of it, and it bit off MUCH more than it could chew. I backed the game based on the (excellent) Unity demo. It was beautiful, dark, atmospheric and had an awesome retro aesthetic that felt true to the original. Why they felt compelled to scrap it and start over is beyond me. TL;DR: Don't scrap the thing that caused your fans to back you in the first place.

[@matternicuss]

People need to realize that when they back something on Kickstarter, there are no real guarantees. It's an investment, and really you should only back a project if you have disposable income. While it sucks that stuff like this happens, I'm thankful Kickstarter exists. The rebirth of CRPGs is largely thanks to kickstarter, with games like Pillars of Eternity and Divinity: OS not standing a chance in the era before crowd funding.

[@TheProjectDream1]

And this is what always happens when you attempt to remake an old game but decide to dumb it down for casuals who've never even fucking heard of the franchise before (and so that you can market it more easily). And even if it does get out of Kickstarter hell, I bet you anything that it'll end up like most remasters and remakes: inferior to the original.

[@veriadejitarukage6823]

First! - Thank you for keeping up gaming news YongYea, I found your channel as a youtube recommendation through one of Jim Sterlings videos, and I've your work ever since. Guys like you, Jim and Angry Joe help me keep up on all things gaming that I care about.

[@Tamipriest]

Fans want the game like it was back then , no new systems no new combat etc , why dont they get this

[@Quintus_Fontane]

There are so many games I'd love a faithful remaster of; X-Wing Alliance, Mercenaries, Fallout Tactics, Corsairs, Hidden and Dangerous... But I simply wouldn't trust anyone to do them properly anymore. I'm old, cynical and jaded. Get off my lawn.

[@AJPwny]

Darn kids, get off my property!

[@psyjinx]

Well, while things were looking down, they just put out that they're setting their sights on 2020. A more realistic release goal. Kickstarter backers will apparently be able to see some early work on one of the game's starter rooms, built in the Unreal engine, in the next update in early April.

[@TheT0nedude]

Modern, modern, modern, why does everyone feel the need to automatically equate that to better, without any evidence of such! I think I'll stick to System Shock Enhanced as the definitive edition, probably forever.

[@FeelsGouda]

Because a company cant survive just off the money of the hardcore fan faction alone. They are no charity, they have to think about developing it for a broader playerbase. Especially with games like Prey and Bioshock being so successfull.

[@TheT0nedude]

@@FeelsGouda If they can't do the 'remaster' justice then create a new IP to work on and make up the rules themselves, and not use the revered franchise name to strike up interest then stitch up the fans once they've got their money. Simples. If they had the attitude you suggest the fans probably wouldn't have pledged as much or been as interested. A shady practice for sure. Go and apologise for someone else's dodgy practices.

[@Niwarto]

Backers wanted them to remake the game the players knew and love, not the changed game the developers of the original game wanted to make in retrospect. And what does making it more modern mean? Like your usual COD corridor game or with loot boxes and microtransactions? This is why I'll never support crowdfunding. Sure, it's not like every project will fail, be used for fraud or change the promises made at the beginning, but the risk is too high.

[@ImNotJoshPotter]

fischkopp1234 Pillars of Eternity is one that did it right at least. And wasn't Original Sin crowd funded? I cant remember.

[@jakerockznoodles]

I have no problem supporting crowdfunding projects, I just personally never invest too much because I know it is a gamble.

[@Niwarto]

Hm, seems like you're one of those people with special needs if you even have to ask that question. Or you're living under a rock.

[@jimmyjams1524]

fischkopp1234 no they mean more modern as in not a cardboard cutout scooting around flailing at things in a blurry grey backdrop.

[@Niwarto]

If you think so.

[@TheMoistening]

Shit like this is why kickstarter should never be funded

[@VegaPhil]

This game is never coming out, another Kickstarter disaster

[@weirdeurasianboy8091]

Disaster? It's the backers' fault. Their nostalgia obsession made them shill out money without giving any fucks.

[@whenthemusicsover6028]

+Lenny Ynnel Way to blame the victim, asshole.

[@olebergst.5828]

Lenny is the kind of guy who blames his grandma for being a fraud victim I guess

[@weirdeurasianboy8091]

What victim blaming? I simply said that nostalgia impared the backer's judgement lol. I never understood the obsession with muh nostalgia. The past is the past.

[@rolan5948]

Lenny Ynnel it’ll be another half-life 3 watch

[@FeelingShred]

Funding in incremental stages, only way to ensure something will be delivered. Pouring a dude's bank account anticipatedly is just a recipe for disaster.

[@marcusblackfellow2850]

Thanks so much for pronouncing "disdain" correctly. I don't remember the last time I heard someone say the word without a "t" sound in the middle. Worthy of a sub.

[@warhammernerd52Daxx-Lorenzo898]

Well, it was too good to be true wasn't it? We all had our fingers crossed at one moment, and then they were cut off: utterly fascinating how the gaming industry has fallen so far yet advanced beyond peek performance since it first was known as such, utterly fascinating And yet, the shining beacon of hope of this story is Lorne Lanning, a developer whom doesn't know anything, knows something between good Quarma and bad Quarma, yet he is not a known individual as he was way back when Everything he happens to know is solely focused on a single-one project: and that is quite excellent at that

[@drpotato5381]

This is why I'll never support anything on kickstarter

[@bobfrank1061]

In my opinion, what they should have done was do a 1:1 remake of System Shock, plus a sort of "new game+" where they could then add all the fancy new features they wanted.

[@hkoizumi3134]

The original system shock back in 1994 was my fourth game ever to play on my PC. It holds so much nostalgia and it means a lot to me. To see the remake, I was excited like any fan was. I guess we are also to blame too. As adults, we want to recapture that moment of the youth. To be blunt, that's a fools errand. It's better to look for new experiences.

[@jamieisjabba]

worse part is I am one of the backers, I backed $150

[@THEmonochromebanana]

R.I.P Dude

[@jamieisjabba]

it's a bit early for R.I.P to the project but right now it's looking every bad.

[@jamieisjabba]

Don't feed him, he is looking for salt.

[@jcdenton2819]

Think optimistically, like, you are not buyed a ship in ScamCitizen.

[@jamieisjabba]

good news a new post was made on the kickstarter page, it's back on track.

[@theblackphantom7314]

The latest gameplay they showed looks very similar to the latest DOOM.

[@jakereason8095]

Ah feature creep.. we meet again. Did nightdive studio staff have experience in making and shipping complete games before starting this project? It's such an obvious mistake to make and they were even warned about it by their backers. Goes to show you what happens when you dismiss recurring criticism as trolling and noise from vocal minorities.

[@ronnieDaking]

nightdive Considering have alot of veterans Devs on Board. Like way more then Kojima productions

[@richardg8376]

Ronniedaking Having experienced devs is one thing, but estimating and planning a project is a difficult task at the best of times, which is why even the most experienced studios get it wrong some times. You need a strong project manager who can keep a handle on the development process. The biggest problem is that Kickstarter encourages bad practices such as offering backer rewards which distract from development and eat into budget, shifting stretch goals which distort the scope of your project and mess with your planning, and underestimating the budget because you're scared that if you quote a more realistic number then you won't hit your target and will end up with nothing.

[@Dermetsu]

I guess it wasnt a disaster after all.

[@VaultBoy13]

Why does anyone throw their money away on video game Kickstarters these days? We've had year after year of them either failing or churning out garbage. Sure, people can site 10-15 good games that came from Kickstarter. But, video games have a better crowd-sourcing option with early access. At least with early access you know the developer has at least put in enough work to create something that should be playable.

[@thefilodough8066]

Amazing how he was there to bash the developers but couldn't be bothered to make a video about what a triumph the actual games release was.

[@SergeJeanArminass]

the remake is trash

[@Trencher1375]

"Keeping the old feel but also not ignoring the innovations done in game design the last twenty years" Translation: Get ready for more arenas with enemies spawing in out of thin air!

[@godila2]

so they basicly lied, promised us remake and started making new game, what a disapointment when you literaly have everything in place story, design everything and go full 180 and scrap everything what was promised

[@Euro-H.E.V.]

Yeah... What we have learned so far, you never invest in a KickStarter project. 😒

[@WOLF4957]

Exactly, man. There is no a single reason to trust the game developers here

[@BSE1320]

Any time you hear about a kickstarter changing engines mid development, its the kiss of death. Imagine building a house from scratch, and midway, demolishing it and building another house. You bought two houses when you only had money for one. Backers should get their refunds upon news of an engine change.

[@joesterling4299]

I think what crowdfunded projects need is a completion bond. It is a sort of insurance, where the producer/builder/developer is held accountable for continuous progress, and which ensures the project will reach completion. (Feel free to Google for more details.)

[@TheG_Boy]

Really really really sad we lost the old visuals i was a really big fan of it :c

[@Bjorn308]

My question is: why do people feel the need to modernize the look of old games so much? Seriously, you barely have to do anything to the look to get the fans to buy into it. Enough free publicity via forums and KZbin videos then - BAM! New audience reached. I mean, take Daggerfall Unity for example. It lets you click to attack instead of having to hold M1 while moving the mouse and it looks nicer than the original without losing it's "soul" sort of speak. It still retains a good deal of that 'ol TES2 feel to bring old fans back to play yet again while adding more modern game mechanics to entice those who never played it before. That seems like the right way to do a remake. PS - Daggerfall Unity is also free so no chance of losing money. ;)

[@darknesseternal6402]

[@Carewolf]

The controls of System Shock 1 are really bad, it is a 3D game that predates the invention of ASWD and mouse look.

[@KingLich451]

system shock enhanced edition is actually way more advanced than many "modern" fps games, and keep in mind that it is an fps RPG *HYBRID* it has both stuff from fps games and rpg games and mixed in together in a nice cool survival horror environment

[@alexholker1309]

You might not want to spend the money on full photorealism, but it would be a mistake to not at least get it up to Half Life 2 standards. A first person game where character models don't really have proper meshes for faces isn't going to cut it unless you're making something like Minecraft.

[@Junebug89]

Too many people don't understand that "good graphics" doesn't necessarily mean photorealism or as close as you can get.

[@Eddie87Grant]

So Nightdive you screwed it up...done spent up the money.

[@nickthebluemonkey1149]

The moment that Stephen took over, it felt like a breath of fresh air. Information has started to flow, progress is being advertised, and the devs are back on social media and twitch like in the early months. I think it's clear that Stephen "gets" crowd funding, much better than the previous game directors, and he now also has read and fully understood how the backers were feeling. With Stephen taking direct control of the game direction, it feels like we're being let back into the project, and even though things went badly wrong, and many (me included) had been shouting for months that it 'felt wrong', and that there had been nothing except for selfies at conferences, this new openness and change of direction back to the original vision has restored my confidence. I just hope the devs can pull in the timescales a little by reusing the original design notes etc..

[@MaxPSVR]

My question is. Will they keep the cyberspace interface? I know a lot of people hated it but I personally loved it as an idea of how people in the future could interact with technology

[@TheBloodswordsman]

Next update shall be: Ceo ran away with the money. No more project... We're sorry.

[@ThatNormalBunny]

Or they just don't update it. The hiatus is going to last forever

[@theofanispatitsas7111]

And yet here it comes...

[@thecircusfreak5364]

Gotta be honest. The game has just released and it’s a fantastic love letter to the original. Development took its sweet time, but it was worth the wait. A lot of the bloviating analysis of the development was pessimistic in the extreme. Glad Night Dive put out a winner.

[@surebrah3180]

if any of the those backers thought 1 million dollars could make a full fledged remake.... they deserve to lose their mooniez.... they are naive and have their eye's glazed in nostalgia.

[@VolvagiasBlaze]

to anyone curious, the remake is still ongoing and they released a gameplay video a few months ago and it looks great. closer to the first pre-alpha in visual flair

[@roxahris]

Unity can make a pretty demo, but it's awful for full game development. Countless independent developers will concur that Unity's development process is based off flashes in a pan, with each engine release being devoted to shiny new features - rather than fixes to the existing codebase. It isn't a stable engine - Unity might have shiny visual effects (and you best believe the original demo's graphics were from shiny effects), but it struggles to deliver anything akin to a full game. In that sense, I think focus on the engine change is unwarranted. The eerie, gloomy look of the Unity demo could be replicated within Unreal if they tried.

[@satibel]

While I agree that the look could be replicated in Unreal, Unity is still a great engine even for a full game *if you know what you are doing*, same thing with Unreal. The thing is, generally if a developer is arguing about engine limitations, they don't know what they are doing. Unity is good enough to be the engine for Hearthstone, Cuphead, Cities skyline, HuniePop, Wasteland 2, and a whole bunch of other games, and I haven't had any more crashes in those than in Fortnite. Though Unreal is really great if you are building an fps, as it's the default for the engine, and doing something else requires more work, while Unity requires less work than unreal for other games, it needs a bit more if you are doing an fps. But if you already have the fps part figured out, it is dumb to switch to a new engine. (especially for console ports, as unity can do them as well as unreal.)

[@Hijfblog]

Yeahh, Unity is as stable as any general purpose game engine, bruh. Sure some features aren't as developed as they could be, but they're moving fast and opening up more and more parts. Alternatively, if your budget is over $1mln, it's probably feasible to license the source and fix any issues you need in-house. Switching engines _and_ art style essentially means starting over from scratch and is just burning money though.

[@alex_ho]

I don't know man, the SCP: CB Unity remake is pretty good from what I've seen, despite its "flashy visuals" it holds up the core theme of the original game quite well.

[@ImperativeGames]

I am developing System Shock styled game by myself with Unity. It crashes, it's bugged and I complain about it from time to time. On confernce there was another indie developer, who I wanted to complain about Unity. But wasn't fast enought - he started first: "Unreal is buggy, it's too hard to understand what's wrong with the engine, it's a nightmare..." xDDD

[@dustinjames6662]

You’re really good at sounding like you’re better than you are, kind of like Unreal. You have no clue what you’re talking about.