You Ask About TRACTOR Prices!! Here they Are!! Buy @ DEALER OR AUCTION?

Looking for a used tractor? Should you buy from a dealer or at an auction? Tractor Time with Tim shows the sales trends for dealers and auction. Be informed before you buy!
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[@jkholley1118]

And this is why I like your channel. You show positive and negative without pushing people to go one way. Just the facts and opinion. Thanks

[@jeremyj612]

Videos like this are great Tim. A lot of people don’t have time to research the hard data, and when a personality they trust presents it for them, they learn things they wouldn’t otherwise.

[@christopherjilek5467]

Well said Tim! When buying a tractor from an auction I anticipate I will have to put 1-2,000.00 into it for fluid/ filter change, possibly tires, replace hoses, etc. Plus, the auction has a buyers premium to consider as well. Pluses and minuses to both which you covered very well.

[@SetitesTechAdventures]

Yea I just bought an old tractor at auction and I haven't gone too much into that stuff yet ,but I should have factored that into what I was willing to bid. Took me a bit to figure out how to to get the loader cylinder off so I can repair the leak. Next I need to get out the hitch piston since that won't raise and just falls immediately. But I partly paid for it being in range and being unable to get much else under 5000$ in my area.

[@dalemartin9242]

One thing to take into consideration as I see it as an industry "insider". Dealers are generally going to keep the lower hour, super clean "creampuffs" they take on trade and retail those on their own lot. If the unit has some cosmetic issues, has a torn seat and needs all fluids and filters, new mower blades and belt and a thorough going over, it's probably getting sent to auction or sold to a wholesaler. With shop labor rates at $90-130 per hour or more, the cost to recon a marginal unit can soon outweigh the $ value gained by spending $1-3K to put in in "retail" condition. Plus there's increased liability for the dealer when they sell a higher hour or rougher used machine because the buyer is going to expect some sort of warranty on a machine that's been "through the shop". I suspect this may have some effect on the price difference between auction and dealer prices.

[@amossnowdaharleyman9179]

A lot of auction tractors are bought by dealers then marked up at the dealership. Easy to tell: if one buyer is buying groups of tractors it's a dealer or dealer rep. If you have a good background in mechanics and deep experience with tractors auctions are OK. If you're a newbie your safe bet is a dealership. Also,with used equipment you have to know when to call it quits: units can turn into serious money pits and you can end up being so underwater on repair costs that you'll never recover your expense.

[@Alanschmalzried]

Interesting conversation. I think you nailed it when you indicated that you need to identify the kind of buyer you are. Are you someone who can invest the time and effort into buying at auction. And are you someone that will take on the risk if something needs repair? I traded my ‘16 1025r h120 60” setup in October for a 2038r. The dealer offered me $13500 for my 425 hour trade. I jumped at that. I tracked the dealers website for my trade and it was initially offered at $15999. Early this year it was noted as sold on their site with a reduced $14999 price. Given that the dealer did some reconditioning, marketing…etc the sale price was a bargain for the buyer and a thin margin for the dealer. For late model equipment it’s hard to beat the dealer…and in my view that is a good thing. The client and dealer both win. The client can trade a quality machine with little worry, a used buyer can buy that quality machine with the knowledge that a reputable dealer stands behind it and the dealer has two satisfied clients that own machines and will return for parts and future equipment.

[@whatchath385]

I think buying from a private party is a very good option as well. Of course you should do your research on the equipment you are buying as well as having an inspection done.

[@KUBBI7488]

this is the best option for me !

[@sinclairpages]

I found that auctions a lot of the price variances will depend on the number of buyers present and the prices those particular people are willing to pay. The same item (year, make & model) at the same auction location, on different days can have a large variance in prices.

[@eosjoe565]

No big surprises here. I would have certainly expected auction prices to be lower. Once you win the bid and take the machine home it is yours along with any major issues you may discover. When purchasing used from a dealer, most will run the machine through their shop first. They will also usually give some type of short minimum warranty and of course you can usually test drive and try out the machine at the dealer before purchasing. Something you typically can't do at an auction. Because of these things I would expect a dealer's used prices to be a tad higher and quite frankly worth the extra piece of mind. The same can be said for purchasing used vehicles at auctions vs. off a dealer's lot. I've never been a fan of auctions. True, every now and then you can get a deal on a nice machine but most are worn out abused junk that weren't worthy of being on the dealer's used lot.

[@tophat2002]

I agree. It helps if you're a diesel mechanic from a tech school and have a shop or large garage. But for a regular guy, buying new feels safer.

[@KUBBI7488]

thats correct! i prefer pay lil more for a good machine then pay less and spend money on repairs !

[@wildbill23c]

@@tophat2002 Exactly....and just because you got a used machine from a dealer doesn't mean it don't have issues, it most likely does, they just clean them up real nice to make it look great for people looking...and most times they don't have a warranty of any sort either, and you probably end up paying just as much, if not more by the time you fix all the covered up problems. Car dealers do the same thing, make it pretty stick it on the lot as is for a ridiculous price, but have a fake checklist showing all the stuff they supposedly checked, but never did.

[@NukePooch1]

Never thought that there would be that much difference between dealer and auction purchases. Great video!

[@philvanim4888]

As someone considering a first purchase, this is very valuable. Thank you! More please.

[@kirbydolak8954]

Tim, nice statistical analysis. I agree that sitting on your hands for a bunch of auctions makes you a wiser man. If as you point out you have the time versus loss of potential job opportunities. Nice review of the data and how it's grouped and how it can be used to make better buying decisions. Quick datapoint about my own negotiation for a used 2017 Kubota BX23S at a dealer several years ago. When I tried to negotiate their price based on several items that my buddy who is a professional diesel mechanic and I had found. I was told - You want it or not. That's the price. Take it or leave it! Maybe dealers out your way are not representative of those in New England where used compact and sub-compact tractors demand and get a high price. I would be curious if tractorzoom takes location into consideration in building their database. Nice episode. Thanks and God Bless.

[@michaelmactavish4445]

my kubota and case dealer kept his price less and cheaper with 50% off

[@ritterjon]

I've gotten a lot of great deals at auctions in the past. Haven't bought a tractor yet but I've come close. I had what they call self control. 😂 Keep on tractoring!

[@wildbill23c]

I missed a huge deal from an auction a friend of mine went to a few weeks ago. I did some loader work for him a while back and mentioned I was thinking of getting a 3rd function kit so I can use a grapple. I had checked with the dealer on a grapple and 3rd function kit....altogether it was going to be close to $3,000 for the 3rd function kit, installation, and the grapple. Friend of mine says...too bad he didn't know I was looking for a grapple, they had 3 of them at the auction that sold for $400 each....well sh**...could have bought all 3, kept one and sold the other 2 and made all my money back....yep, this is the type of luck I have LOL.

[@TractorTimewithTim]

Yea, but you never know how high the bid would have gone.

[@wildbill23c]

@@TractorTimewithTim Where I live, people end up paying more than new price for anything at auction because people here can't keep their mouths shut LOL.

[@timothyreed6054]

Great presentation. Unlike cars and trucks there isn't a Blue Book available for used tractors that I'm aware of. So attending auctions and looking at dealer websites and not all post their prices is your only option.

[@brandoniron44]

My 2 cents not asked for. If it’s not around 50% of the new price, all buy new. Just not worth it to ME to save a little with the risk of unseen damage or lack of maintenance. Also have to consider that finding used equipment in the trim level/ setup like I want is almost always impossible. I also question why they are even selling. Why would you buy something and then resell it a few years later? And if that’s the way you operate, why would you even do the maintenance if you only need a year or two before selling? Anyway Thanks for the videos Tim and crew.

[@rox9975]

Great informative video. Your correct about dealer discounts. Don’t be shy when it comes to negotiating. A couple months ago I purchased my first Kubota B2601 and got a nice $1500 discount plus a few hundred dollars on implements for buying 3 or more and another $800 off for paying it all off instead of getting a loan. That’s a lot of discounts…

[@wildbill23c]

A lot of discounts? No, because now you are out shopping for your next attachment/implement HAHA!!! Your wallet now hates you forever....well as long as you own a tractor anyhow LOL. I can't remember what the discounts were when I got my BX2680, but they weren't much if anything, all eaten up by taxes, doc fees, and a very terrible salesman that couldn't keep track of his head from his a**....and a year and a half later, hasn't gotten any better....2 months so far waiting on him to get me a 3rd function kit...thinking about it now, he can just keep it, I'll order the kit from Messick's and install it myself...doesn't look to be too difficult from the videos I've found. More time consuming taking stuff apart, than difficult.

[@jimmcknight3021]

I'm kinda thinking this gap is wider now than when the pandemic was going on. Some tractors were going for outrageous prices at auction 😢. (Both large farm and compact tractors)I guess the bigger question will be, will the gap get greater once we move further away from the pandemic, or have we achieved the normal gap?

[@RCPSU4]

Plenty of good info from this. I know at least one of the well known equipment rental companies auctions off some of their stuff every so often. It does make me curious whom would provide a small 90-day warranty, if they even would.

[@robertfakler8564]

A couple other advantages with a dealer, one - there might not be any auctions in your geographic area, and two, a dealer will probably deliver the tractor to you, so you don't need to buy or rent a trailer.

[@wildbill23c]

If you buy a tractor, you should have a truck/trailer capable of hauling it anyways.

[@justin6409]

One thing the video overlooked are all the added hidden cost such as tax, shipping and any additional costs in repairs (Tim points this out with his own experience). It's not cheap to ship those tractors as a consumer.

[@wildbill23c]

Buyer's premiums/auction premium stuff is a huge deal too, oftentimes it ain't cheap.

[@terrylutke]

Don't forget that auctions often charge a buyers fee now. This fee may not be reflected in the price data.

[@justin6409]

I bought a BX1880 brand new a few months ago and frankly I can't complain about it, I love that little tractor. Out the door I spend just about 24k, but I got a lot of amenities for that price, a skid steer quick attach loader, 3rd function, grapple and 3 point quick hitch. I also got 0 apr for the lifetime of the loan, a 6 year powertrain warranty and Kubota insurance so if I put in a lake or it gets stolen for whatever reason, I pay $200 and they fix or replace, and of course you have to pay for that insurance up front, it added about $1800 to the total, but it's a one time payment. Originally, I wanted a John Deere, but they are just too expensive and no great financing either, you're stuck with 3% and it was going to be more than 30k for what I wanted.

[@wildbill23c]

I have the BX2680, wish I would have listened to myself instead of my salesman talking me out of getting the 3rd function and rear remote kit when I got the machine....if you don't need it now, get it anyways because it'll be financed into your purchase price, and at 0% interest its a great way to go. I got the KTAC as well.... I made lots of mistakes when I purchases my tractor...listening to my salesman was #1 on the list of everything he talked me out of when I ordered the tractor. Waited a year to get my 60" mid mount mower deck, claimed he couldn't get one, yet the dealer down the street had 3 of them the whole time...couldn't trade with them? He claimed he couldn't, yet sent someone to Utah to pickup my tractor from another dealer...ok, couldn't get the mower too while he was down there, nope couldn't do that....now 2 months of waiting to get a 3rd function kit....yep, he's gonna keep that kit, ordering one from Messick's and I'll install it myself...given their piss poor communications and dealings with them so far, I think I'd be better off not letting go of my tractor, probably would never see it again the way this dealer is going.

[@justin6409]

@@wildbill23c Yea it sounds like you had a pretty bad experience with your local dealer. Luckily my dealer has been pretty great, thankfully when they forgot to tighten the bolts on the front rims they came out and picked up the tractor and put new rims on it and dropped it back off, so their service so far has been great. Like you said though with the back order on the belly mower, I'm in the same boat as well 1 year backorder. It's crazy how badly scarce parts are. When I purchased the grapple for mine he said he's now two years out on his next order of grapples. That's really been my only complaint so far is the ridiculous backorder time for implements.

[@Brant-hy7yl]

Thanks Tim. I purchased a JD3520 recently from a dealer and negotiated 5% off list price. Which is in the range of the listings in the video. Great content. Keep it up.

[@TractorTimewithTim]

Congratulations! I hope you have enjoyed our 3520 restoration process. We’ve got more fixes / improvements in progress.

[@tjt1992]

I only purchase brand new tractors, that way I get exactly what I want. I just bought a 2023 JD 4044R with cab and loader last Tuesday. Take delivery April 30th.

[@TractorTimewithTim]

Congratulations!

[@tjt1992]

@@TractorTimewithTim Thanks

[@bradolsen8629]

I am I was wondering, does your dad have any antique tractors that he still used on the farm? If he did how old were they?

[@aprilgeneric8027]

the reason most stuff winds up at auctions is because it was abused and no dealer will take it because they know exactly what to look for and would never give it a wishful thinking price for the damage that is done. if you are lucky, it is from a farmer getting out of the business, just plain old retiring, sold the farm to a developer and is moving down south or nearer the grandkids and bought an RV. then there is the farmer who just couldn't survive the farming conditions and the bank foreclosed. when machines are used by multiple employees there is no respect given to the machine that it is taken care of and not damaged, and it's when that damage becomes considerable that the employer will trade it in for aq newer one if the tax breaks work out well or the old machine simply failed that often or that badly at the over demanding jobs they want to use it for.

[@KUBBI7488]

if tractor sells for 10 k at auction add another $800 to $1200 for buyer fess depends on auction and state !

[@ericpaul4575]

Don’t forget that the price of a full filter and fluid change. I would want to do that on any auction tractor. This can increase the cost as well. Also are the auction prices all inclusive, all auction fees included, or is it just hammer prices?

[@wildbill23c]

I do the same thing when I buy a used vehicle too, full service, every fluid/filter changed right after purchase, so I know its been done, and when.

[@Not_So_Weird_in_Austin]

I get the feeling unless the tractor is very low hours you are facing repair issues that aren't necessarily visible at auction

[@wildbill23c]

Very likely, which is probably why it went to auction, the dealer found all the problems and dumped it so they wouldn't have to fix anything. Auction equipment like that is usually the case, something major wrong, cover it up enough to make it through the auction for an unsuspecting buyer to be stuck with the bill.

[@DLTJR1959]

Another great video Tim. My father sold Allis Chalmers for over 25 years at our local dealership back in the day. They made most of their dealer profit from used equipment purchased from a monthly auction in a city 250 miles from the dealership. That same auction company ran a monthly auction at a location only 35 miles away. Pop told me local folk would attend that local monthly auction so they knew what they paid for used equipment. Makes sense. Pop was good. 30 years ago we purchased a MF 35 super deluxe diesel with power steering at that local auction. I kept it 5 years and sold it later for a $1K profit. Pop was experience enough to know what to look for and converse with the seller prior to auction. Most of the time those sellers were honest with him since he was a regular. Everything was bought as is. You just have to know what to look for. Again thanks for your channel. I really appreciate it.

[@markcole6475]

I wasn’t able to negotiate much at all with my local dealer…they only had two of the model tractors I was looking at! They did give me fair trade in price for my old tractor (2016 L2501) They were short on loaders and some tires , along with many attachments! At this point I was fortunate enough to find this tractor complete! 😅

[@jefffunkhouser2773]

I got my Kubota M105 back in 2020. At a auction it has 1,800 hrs about. I got it at the right time before everything used equipment went up , when I got it home. I change All filter and oil and hydro oil for a pice of mine

[@lcee6592]

This is interesting content. Even not being in the market to sell or buy a tractor, the used equipment market is huge and interesting to watch. 👍

[@emerkamp1]

Prices are closer than I would have guessed. You can get a lemon from either place. Auctions tend to get things in that don't sell quick enough or have sat on the lot too long. That said this Auction you've been going to seems to run as honest as someone can, i guess actions themselves can vary greatly also. This surely isn't the same auction you had problems with long ago is it.

[@TractorTimewithTim]

No, that was a once per year consignment auction. For those, you apparently must do your own due diligence. I do not believe you have to worry about ownership issues or debt issues at most reputable auction houses.

[@emerkamp1]

@@TractorTimewithTim That's good to know, I was wondering. Thanks.

[@johnroberts1509]

I really enjoy this type of video as well as your other videos.

[@CameronWWE123]

I don't mind action purchasing for equipment but at the same time it may have problems with it that is never disclosed and it doesn't have the options on it that u can get anymore for that year make or model anymore ect. Plus, there is no warranty. That why I went with dealer for my 4066r with fully loaded options plus attachments. The dealer will help out more ect when you purchase from them. We have been using the same dealer since 1979 too.

[@jckid66]

I have been seeing tractors at auction that are beat up that go almost as much as a new model

[@lloydk3201]

Thanks for the info. We bought new, and happy with it.

[@barelystablefarm7151]

Like these informative videos, hope to see more. Thank you!

[@steven8735]

If you're funny a tractor from a dealer sometimes they don't come with a warranty

[@TractorTimewithTim]

Used tractor.

[@aprilgeneric8027]

50-500 hours at a dealer was a demo unit. sometimes there are 1,500 hour ones when they can't sell a demo or don't want to, then it becomes a rental demo unit. sometimes those sub 150 hour units were the sales guy told them the tractor could do something it can't , to the customer and the customer is unsatisfied and returns it for a better machine than can perform to the abilities needed. over promising

[@davidhayden6724]

Excellent video Tim! Very helpful.

[@unclealansyard5176]

It's very interesting to see the data! I enjoyed this video. I really enjoy these types of videos here and there mixed in with your other videos of projects being done. You do a good job showing the content of projects, repairs, and information like this video. That's my order of preference. It's all very useful information, and I'm sure it's hard planning content to put out. I've been watching around 3 to 4 years I think now. Other KZbin channels I watch come and go, but the ones I always come back to is TTWT, Neil Koch, Mike Morgan, and Allyn Hane, the lawn care nut. You guys are the real deal with your personalities, attitude, etc. Keep up the great work, Tim.

[@TractorTimewithTim]

Very helpful and encouraging comment. Thanks for continuing to watch!

[@johnevans6053]

Good information... You forgot to mention that the person putting a tractor into an auction has to pay the auctioneer 10% of the final purchase price further reducing the money he gets for the equipment.

[@randysavage8963]

Great information Tim

[@MCGDEC]

Spent 2 years looking at auctions, finally gave up and bought new with 0% financing. Especially during covid used prices were way too high.

[@carlhouseal8378]

Tim my ? is not about tractor prices I have a 2019 1025r and after watching your 54 quick hitch snow blade installation will the same kits fit on my 2019 ? thanks for your help and time !!!! Carl

[@wildbill23c]

You can have a tractor with an hour of time on it and still be used...if someone bought it, got it home, found it wasn't the right one and had to return it for a different model, that tractor is now used because it was sold, warranty activated etc. So going with 50 hours doesn't necessarily mean much LOL....although, you'd hope with a tractor that new it wouldn't have problems, however, a lot can go wrong in 50 hours, and the auction is where a lot of those problem tractors and equipment ends up.

[@DKWalser]

Does the data include the premium charged to buy something at an auction? The data might include auction premiums, but it might not. If auction premiums aren't included, that would reduce the difference between dealer and auction prices.

[@malcolmtaylor4593]

I enjoy analyzing data. 👍

[@toddw392]

Thanks for the information. Much appreciated!

[@HankinsExcavating]

Ted's auction definitely had a trend where the pre emission tractors are on a upward trend on value. But the compact versions are definitely becoming a hot item no matter the year.

[@brandono3277]

Don't forget buyer auction fees! They can add up very quick!

[@leokelly359]

Thanks for the info Tim

[@PurpleCollarLife]

Great info!

[@dwayneallen3539]

Something to consider when buying is usually your dealer has lower financing than does your bank in my experience 😊

[@BitCounter]

Great information. Seems like the homework assignment I would have kept putting off.. forever.

[@dewiroberts5392]

Usefully information. Suggestion! How to handle disputes

[@poorfatman5317]

What about buying used from an owner

[@wademizelle3433]

I’m in NC, THERE ARE ALMOST no used tractors available. I’m thinking of looking in your area, there are many good low hour used tractors. Why does your area have so many and there are almost none here? Thanks, I enjoy your videos

[@melaniekeen3611]

Must not be looking in the right direction. Plenty of tractors in the Upper Piedmont area of Winston-Salem Greensboro

[@terrytolar1749]

Do the auction prices include the customary 10% buyer's premium?

[@TractorTimewithTim]

Most auctions around here don’t have buyers premium…but I don’t know.

[@On_The_Farm]

The problem with auctions is sometimes you get caught in the heat of the moment and keep raising your bid above what you wanted to. Right Tim? 😁😁😁

[@TractorTimewithTim]

Nah, never happens!!!

[@dcidci1012]

Yes more please...

[@joepiker]

The live auctions I have attended all charge a 10% premium above the bid price. I assume this is pretty standard.

[@TractorTimewithTim]

Not the ones I attend.

[@joepiker]

@@TractorTimewithTim That's great (not here in Ca)

[@cwgreen1938]

Tim, I love this kind of onfo. You called the name of a cab that was on a john deere tractor in your data and said that was probably the cause it was a little higher priced. My question is: do you know of anyone that builds a cab like the john deere cab that comes from the factory that will fit an open station tractor like a John Deere 3033R? I surely wish I had bought a cab tractou to begin with but now a cab tractor is about $11,000 higher than the same tractor in an open cab model. I would appreciate your opinion and help with this.

[@TractorTimewithTim]

In order to have the nice factory cabs, the tractor must be designed for it. These cabs are mounted on fully isolated mounts, and do not have ‘contact’ to the vibrating/loud portions of the tractor. The auction I attend does not have buyers premium.

[@garyduncan3060]

Thoroughly enjoy this type of video. Thank You

[@HankinsExcavating]

Great vid Tim

[@Kcolby47]

Good info and food for thought. Blessed

[@charlesmartin8047]

Very informative. Thank you.

[@EnriqueSonora]

Learned a lot. thank you

[@chasetemple3129]

Go to more auctions. I love those videos.

[@hpw59]

thanks for the link

[@timothyvonneida9427]

Very informative…..thanks…..

[@brooster87]

Great info brother.

[@tophat2002]

Great video content

[@noelstractors-firewood57]

Great video.

[@sasmit81]

Like this type of video

[@RealJeep]

I went to tractor zoom and they only have one TYM tractor under 40HP on the whole site. Does anyone use this service?

[@TractorTimewithTim]

Plenty of ‘real’ tractors on the site! (just kidding).

[@TractorTimewithTim]

In the advanced data access I have, I see 74 auction results and 41 dealer listings.

[@RealJeep]

@@TractorTimewithTim Obviously I'm doing the search wrong. BTW...I have a TYM-25 and I love it! I would never buy a green tractor in a compact size.

[@TractorTimewithTim]

No, you may not have access to past auctions. I only see one ‘future’ auction.

[@richardbritton5280]

Great information TT ty 👏👍🏆👴🐕🚜🇺🇸🤠🙏

[@richardbritton5280]

Got a question for you trying to locate a certain tractor but I'm 67 years old don't email snap whatever ? I give dealer my number to call 📞 👴 the refuse to dial it I m old school I don't use computers I can do this but with Arther handing around it is time consuming I've had one dealer become very disrespectful n down rite rude that I was stupid should not b spending 40k cash on a tractor wasn't calling an old idiot 🤔 he said use my phone it can email 😳

[@TractorTimewithTim]

I would say that you are only 67. It isn’t difficult for someone your age to learn to use texting and email. You made a comment on this channel, so you are at least somewhat tech literate. You will have better interaction with those around you if you are more flexible in your communication methods. Asking the rest of the world to ‘bend to your desires’ is not going to be a winning formula. I would have a different opinion if we were talking about a religious issue, but this is not. I don’t mean to be rude. I’m just encouraging you to learn to better use your phone…a tool you already have. You can do it! Many of my older friends use ‘voice to text’ so they don’t have to type. Find a way…you can do it!

[@richardbritton5280]

@@TractorTimewithTim ty

[@SledgeHammer43]

See Tim I would have limited it to under 500 hours because there are many different services that are due at that point that some of these are going to be missed and are needed asap.

[@TractorTimewithTim]

Yea. Probably right.

[@daveknowshow]

i thought it was a great video idea. makes me want to hit a couple auctions just to observe not buy.

[@ronaldcamp6757]

Kinda dry but interesting.

[@Southalabamaoutdoors]

Tim looks like a news person reading from a teleprompter..

[@TractorTimewithTim]

Yea….but I’m not! We tried to make it look like that…but I was ‘winging it’ on the words I used…no teleprompter, no script.

[@davesserra5447]

I don't feel that the discount is worth the potential unknown pain of buying an auction tractor. Unless you have the knowledge and experience to thoroughly look over the tractor, you are taking a real gamble. After all, those tractors are at the auction for a reason. Currently, the discounts at auctions are not deep enough, and the online bidders bidding the tractors to the moon is not helping.

[@TractorTimewithTim]

The data does not support your ‘to the moon’ statement.

[@davesserra5447]

That may be so, but it has been my experience at auctions.

[@excavator1987]

10% to auction 8% tax