YOU GUYS asked me to try this... so I did

Does this cooling mod for the Z690 motherboards ACTUALLY work?? Let's try it!
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[@rgreerjr]

for future reference the opposite of concave is convex, although saying "domed" does get the same point across. Also for everyone saying that cpu dies have been rectangular for a while now I am fairly certain he is talking about the shape of the IHS and Substrate

[@nb081199]

why do you care to comment on it?

[@rgreerjr]

@@nb081199 im confused on your question. I comment on videos because I have comments to make on videos

[@SpeedyBeard]

@@nb081199 there’s a comment section for a reason, no?

[@zzTeebeutel]

@@nb081199 why do youuu care to comment on this?

[@xlinnaeus]

I think that domed is a good word and I also think that convex is not as funny as the word domed. I care to comment on your comment, Mr. Greer - or should I say, 'Dick'?

[@TheDaNuker]

Now this is the type of content that people do really want to watch to build up from the limited visual information in the written articles. Keep up the good work.

[@Sidthekid4388]

@@swizzler8053 he has lots of eyes on his channel and he is providing a point into the sample size and also instructions on how to potentially fix an issue. I for one applaud this type of content and if it saves me an unnecessary RMA or buying unneeded cooking parts, I’m down.

[@mikerzisu9508]

@@swizzler8053 who is he copying? Whenever there is a break in information like this, all of the tech channels cover it. Stop crying

[@kingpoopthe7th]

Agreed. I love Jay's hack and slash science.

[@jepulis6674]

@@mikerzisu9508 In this case he should have copied. He got it all wrong, the cooler makes no difference as its the ilm.

[@akiraic]

you gotta be pretty stupid to not understand the original article

[@V4Now]

"Linusing" has officially become an adjective, ladies and gents! 🤚🏾

[@TimBoundy]

I think you mean verb.

[@bennig3237]

17 minute long demonstration of the kingpin's thermal performance

[@patty109109]

Honestly this channels vids are too long.

[@suyashsingh9865]

what part is kingpin? the thermal paste?

[@bennig3237]

@@suyashsingh9865 yes sir.

[@trizkial7592]

@@patty109109 no they are not

[@sagerdood]

Havent tried the washer mod. I do have the grizzley bracket and it dropped my temps insanely, 10 to 15, per core.. im running 5.5 p 4.3 e 7300cl30 , 3090 strix all under a mora 420.

[@renchesandsords]

one thing that might have influenced the test is that the tests in the article illustrated temperature deltas of 70+ degrees meaning that the chip was prob running in the mid to high 90s in terms of degrees celsius. At that level, chips would start to run into some current leakage, making any improvements in cooling have an amplified effect.

[@Captain_Yesterday]

I think a key detail was missed. It's the ILM (not the cooler) that's applying too much pressure across the middle of the CPU causing the CPU to have a slight bend. When a cooler is mounted it'll make good contact with the top and bottom of the CPU as these are the highest points. But the middle of the CPU will be lower and so the gap between CPU and cooler will be greatest resulting in less effective heat transfer and higher temperatures.

[@peter3337]

wtf's an ILM

[@Lalasoth]

@@peter3337 the latching mechanism.

[@strongislandx]

Ya i think he completely missed the point, unless I'm confused. The cpu is higher and now rectangle and the retention cover latches on the same spots at the center of the sides of the cpu. That's ok for a square but not so much rectangle. The washers makes the Retention top higher so it doesn't push so hard on the sides of the cpu, bending it basically

[@betamasud]

@@strongislandx ppl l lol

[@letsgoBrandon204]

@@peter3337 Industrial Light & Magic 😊

[@khyron6]

I use to work for a place that used microwaves to communicate with satellites. When we lapped the parts we use a flat stone not glass. start off with 160, 200, then 300 grit wet sandpaper you can use oil too but its kind of a mess. When you sand it you go in a FIGURE EIGHT pattern. It keeps it staying flat. If you go back and forth one side WILL wear down more than the other. Good job keep the vids coming. Thanks :)

[@englishdude92885]

Awesome video! Would have been interested in the results of the lapped cpu without spacers. Keep these kind of videos coming! Can’t learn enough from your content!!

[@Dennzer1]

me to

[@00000soso00000]

This mod has been life saving for me. I'm running a 12900K with a Corsair H150 Elite Capelix AIO on an Asus Z690 Formula motherboard. In Cinebench 23 the P cores averaged around 95-97C with 2 cores reaching 100C (with original AIO thermal paste). I removed the AIO and I saw that it made contact with the CPU at the top/bottom edges and in the middle it was clean (I don't think the paste even made contact in the middle). I put new paste but the temps did not change. I thought, well, bad luck, this is it. Then I saw the article from igor's Lab. I went to the hardware store and I bought 4 washers (M5 as they did not have M4 :). I was busy this week and only today I got the chance to implement the mod. Now in Cinebench 23 the highest temp is 89C with the other P cores averaging around 85C.

[@ilijazafirov4192]

I am using Corsair H60i RBG PRO XT on my 12600k with slight turbo overclock to 5.2 GHz, using it with the LGA1151 screws and didn't have any issues, works fine and normal with no overheating even when stressed at max frequency

[@zarethd]

For a very long time a domed heatsink (not heat spreader) has done the best for cooling by giving more pressure and more squeegee effect to get the maximum amount of TIM out of the way. That's probably not helping with the issue since manufacturers know this gets them better temps. Once the cooler and heatsink are mated to each other (bent basically lol) it's virtually identical to two flat surfaces. What's gonna happen tho is if you switch from a domed heatsink to a flat one you're gonna get awful temps. Bigger IHS means it's even harder to squeegee out extra TIM if you over apply due to identical mounting pressure but lower PSI!!

[@DonDingeling]

I highly recommend this mod! Not only because of better temperatures, it also fixed my errorcode 55. The pesure on the socket was so high, that my RAM-slot A2 wasnt detected and caused thet Motherboard-error. I used 0,8mm plates. now everything runs fine.

[@JustPlainYogurt]

Back in the x58 days i used the same mod on my xeon x5660 to keep ist below 95c at 5+ GHz. By the way.. you have to lap the CPU while ist mounted in the socket, to have a flat ihs when the CPU is mounted. The easyest way to do that is to cut a socket out of a broken mainboard.

[@sirjizzalot]

It's best to lap in a figure 8 pattern. Less margin of uneven pressure error.

[@jong2359]

It is best not to vomit what others have written without experience to back it up. I never used a figure 8 pattern, and always got my heatsinks and processors to "stick."

[@Thebadbeaver9]

@@jong2359 its best not to be a dick online and assume others don't have experience.

[@herida9706]

Machinist by trade here and I agree with sirjizzalot. It is best to lap in a figure 8 pattern and to periodically rotate the object being lapped as fingertips tend to apply more pressure to one corner than to others. This has a balancing out effect and creates greater precision of the of the overall lapping process. Great video btw, doing a 12th gen build at the moment using a noctua nh-u12a chromax on a 12600k

[@msebae]

Great video; however the concave IHS has nothing to do with AIO/Cooler bracket pressure, but ILM central pressure on the two central flaps of the IHS. The flat cold plate of the AIO should actually counter the concavity a little, not cause it.

[@agentcrm]

Yeah, not using springs for mounting is always going to cause issues with pressure. Either under or over pressure. I wonder how much difference the kingpin thermal paste makes, if it's too much it might be worth swapping back to something more common.

[@Moostuffas]

Enjoyed your break down of the issue.

[@chriswilson9331]

Cool thanks Jay, I was curious about this. Saved us a lot of trouble. 👍

[@pauls635]

It's concave and convex. Or a dip and a dome shape. It's all good. Very informative and very helpful.

[@CoreyHardin]

Great video, thanks Jay!

[@davidbrennan5]

17:23 looks like a Mitutoyo digital caliper was used as a straight edge but it is the old version not the ip66/67 version.

[@grahamwellington6556]

The standoff height for the Corsair LGA1700 upgrade kit is 1.05mm shorter than the LGA1200 standoffs they replace so it seems more likely that the socket, or the cpus, are getting shorter, not higher.

[@TimBoundy]

I can't see how shimming the CPU socket retention would make a difference. The tension mostly comes from the CPU cooler which only makes contact with the CPU IHS and the motherboard PCB - neither of which have had their dimensions altered. The motherboard will still bow if the CPU cooler tension is too high.

[@sticmatic]

which is exactly why Igor recommended a solid steel backplate like that alphacool prototype

[@poppyrider5541]

Go watch Buildzoids vid. He explains it very well, in his own way.

[@PokeMyBalls]

I just ordered a Noctua 78mm bracket kit for $9 and my 12700K is idle at 20c/76c under load. Just make sure you order the right one. Noctua has 78mm and 83mm.

[@GoinManta]

With a "Stock" LGA 1200 mount ( which looks the same as a 12th gen LGA 1700) my i7-12700KF was pegging at 100C. With the Artic Cooling LGA1700 mount ( the ONLY difference I saw was a 1mm shorter stud ). I was at 72C. So one 1mm WASHER to make the mount go UP. Makes a LGA1200 mount the same as the Artic LGA1700 kit. BUT also gives a LGA1700 "room" to tighten. You are right with the LGA1700 kit was tighten to its at zero lash. By getting the extra 1mm you get some room to "tighten". That said, I think they may have been using a LGA1200 mount on a 12th gen. You HAVE to use a LGA1700 mount on LGA1700 board, the LGA1200 FITs.. and it FEELS right. BUT ITS LOOSE.

[@herpderp_6488]

So what I Wana get this right. I also have a arctic freezer 2 and I am using the lga 1700 mounting kit. So do I need to do this mod or not be because I think my temps are fine. Also does the kit cause bending or is it good to

[@ClarkBark14]

I just did this mod. My CPU clamp bracket was putting down a ton of pressure before. Lapped it flat and used kryonaut at the same time. Dropped 20c max temp during one cinebench run... Insane. 93 to 73. 12700k, 4.9 & 3.9. 1.3v. My lapping pattern midway was pretty crazy.

[@DamianPEdwards]

Can't see another comment saying this, but I interpreted the explanation as being the actual CPU retention mechanism itself was causing the bending of the the CPU *and* the socket backplate. I have experienced this on my own 12900K install. By adding the washers you lessen the tension holding the CPU into the socket, *not* the cooler block's contact with the CPU tension. The other workaround that's been detailed is to ensure the cooler mounting baseplate is mounted on the motherboard *before* putting the CPU in, so that it ends up reinforcing the motherboard and CPU socket, making it more resistant to being bent by the tension applied by the CPU mounting system. I've been experiencing cooling issues with my own 12900K under full load (Cinebench R23 multicore, thermal throttles instantly but still scores >27K) and it's very evident on my board and CPU that there is quite a lot of bending taking place around the socket, resulting in poor contact by the cooler (ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II 360). The thermal paste pattern shows very poor contact on just one side of the IHS too (the side towards the PCIe slots). I'm working with ARCTIC support to try these workarounds and see if they help at all.

[@fist003]

mind sharing the washer thickness that you used..?

[@DamianPEdwards]

@@fist003 I've yet to try it myself but I've ordered nylon 1mm M4 washers based on what the article said. I'm going to try mounting the cooler backplate without the CPU first and compare the bending before and after the CPU is inserted.

[@PeteyPete173]

Did you fid a solution? I am having the same experience with my 12700KF (not overclocked) in Cinebench. 2 of the cores (cores 2 and 4) sky rocketing straight to 100 celcius, and as a result thermal throttle. The E cores running between 81 and 83C, with the P cores lowest being 87C and maxing at 100C. The cooler I am using is the MSI MAG CoreLiquid 240R with LGA 1700 mounting kit. Tried reseating and reapplying thermal paste with no improved result. Short of trying a different cooler, not sure what else to try. Would expect better cooling even from a 240 AIO.

[@DamianPEdwards]

@@PeteyPete173 I've built another 12900K system (for someone else) & seen the exact same behavior. I tried the washer workaround on my own system and it made no difference. On the 2nd system I didn't see any of the socket bending but the CPU still thermal throttles instantly under Cinebench R23 multi-core. The scores are good though, as the CPU seems to immediately clock down slightly to find its equilibrium. I also built a 12700K system but didn't see this issue. That CPU maxxed at around 90 deg C under same load. My best guess so far is that this issue a combination of silicon lottery and motherboard defaults/settings for 12th gen. With the MSI board it asks for the type of CPU cooling system being used on first entry to the BIOS, and if you select water cooling it maxes power delivery out. The CPU then draws huge amounts of power once under full load until it clocks back slightly to prevent thermal throttling.

[@PeteyPete173]

@@DamianPEdwards Interesting findings. I have a Gigabyte board and it didn't ask me what cooling I would be using. Under normal use the temps are relatively in check, haven't really put it to the test with any sort of demanding game yet. I'm not a big gamer, but it's nice to have the power there when needed. I may end up trying the suggestion Igor's Lab mentioned, mounting all bracketry before installing the CPU, as the article mentioned it could be an issue in regards to the rigidity of the board and the cooler brackets helping to stop any flex.

[@mrwashur1991]

Idk about other manufacturers but I can confirm that Arctic liquid is sending new standoffs with a new backplate for lga 1700. They stated it in their instructions but I measured them both with a caliper and they are in fact a different size (I cant remember the size off the top of my head but I believe they’re shorter, either 13mm>12mm or 14mm>13mm).

[@dirkmanderin]

I don't see the issue with my 12700k / Lian-Li Galahad 360. Even with the pump running at 50%. Then again, I, like most people, don't run Prime-95 or Cinebench all day...

[@broklond]

Perhaps you having a concave 12900K, when you apply too much pressure on it with the unmodded retention system, you actually flatten the IHS out and not make it bow, like it would do with an IHS that was flat/bowed to begin with?

[@vMaxHeadroom]

Thanks for testing as I was wondering what the result would be. On my 12700K I have no issues and even overclocked with max temps on CBR23 multicore,I hit 80 degrees on the hottest core and that is with a 5.3GHz single core and 5GHz all core, though I am using a 360mm AIO.

[@akcse4565]

Your cooler manufacturer must have taken the z height into account, just like noctua's mounting mechanism. Thus, good thermals

[@brendang3546]

Bought Corsair's LGA1700 scews for my 12700k and used it with an H100i Pro XT, along with Kryonaut thermal paste. Idles in the low 20s and in gaming I haven't seen above 50-55C. Many games run at 40C in 1440p.

[@ewenchan1239]

Thanks for doing this for us. Good to know. It's a pity that it's a bit harder for me to get a history graph of the CPU temps in a terminal, in Linux without having to write the data out to like a CSV file and then post-processing the data to make the graphs/plots.

[@joshph2716]

what about just straight lapping instead of adding spacers to socket retention brackets

[@Akizurius]

I wonder if its an issue that will start to show up more after a longer time. As in CPUs will get bent more after several months under pressure... or maybe some motherboards have tighter mounts than others?

[@mikerzisu9508]

The type of backplate you are using on your aio may make a difference too

[@1starfish11]

Mine is so tight that I was affraid that cpu or motherboard will break if I will lock it, thankfully nothing break but the pressure on cpu is huuugeeee.... MB is gigabate aorus z690 ud ddr4. Im thinking about that mod when i will be changing to new cooling in a few days

[@seriousplace7756]

I think the stability of the MB and the Socket is make a huge difference from cheap to high end. Igor says that too

[@markodimic]

@@seriousplace7756 Anandtech used GIGABYTE Z690 Aorus Master and it bent like crazy :(

[@arunachalpradesh399]

@@1starfish11 bro do you know any mobo which is not too tight and works well?

[@a120068020]

Noctua released a socket LGA1700 conversion kit for the NH-D15 and other coolers and its not a bodge, its a backplate and hardware that is perfect fit for the 1700 socket only.

[@jeantechnoir7702]

I modified the standard Lian Li Galahad 240 LGA 1200 backplate Bracket to fit the 1700 and works perfectly, the bolts already have springs and that particular AIO already comes with washers, of course, normally you would be able to just order an LGA 1700 compatible kit for this AIO from Lian Li, but Im not in the US and I can't order stuff internationally.

[@andrey7268]

It's not about the older cooler mounting, which, if anything, should play less role in CPU deformation than on LGA11xx because on LGA1700 the CPU IHS is lower than on LGA11xx. It's about the retention bracket design and the fact that the CPU is now rectangular. The retention plate applies pressure in the middle of the CPU and the socket pins push back on the sides, which makes the CPU bend. Buildzoid explains this very well in his video.

[@jonathanellis6097]

Your results suggest to me the limiting factor for thermals are either the bond between the IHS and the silicon of the CPU, or the performance of that waterblock, it simply can't remove anymore heat than it was in the first test.

[@Doug-mu2ev]

Thanks for doing this!

[@sp00n]

Try again with Prime95 Small FFT. Some may argue this is "unrealistic" work load, but if you want to test the cooling setup to its limit, this is the way to go.

[@madafact2784]

Yeah those temps are perfect, I get around the same with an ek d5 setup, using a socket 1700 adapter to go with my previous water block

[@chriskaradimos9394]

thanks jay great video

[@markgriffin1384]

Would like to see you maybe test the effects on temps with water cooling on a CPU with the IHS on against a no IHS, EK does special kits for no IHS retention directly onto the processor. Obviously not with your 12900k but you get the point....

[@t0bakken1337]

called direct die mount. pretty freaking good, used to do it a lot on earlier gen CPU, untill some of them got soldered (swapped to AMD after that). some people even remove IHS just to put some liquid metal between die and IHS, also helps a lot on the thermals, without running the risk of destroying the die when mounting the AiO.

[@Xanoz84]

Would love to see preformance tests on a cpu that you lap from og to super polished to the extreme!

[@justatim8143]

Your 12900 is concave so it may be working to your advantage when using the old coolers putting more pressure on the screws may just be putting enough pressure to flatten out the 12900.

[@evocybernation8839]

I sit around 63 degrees Celcius on a full load nonstop. When it's idle, I get about 25-27 degrees Celcius. I have no issues with the 12900k.

[@monke2361]

My 12900K is on the way, which cooler you got? I haven't bought one yet

[@are3287]

Sounds like youve got a monster cooler

[@evocybernation8839]

@@monke2361, I purchased the iCUE H170i ELITE LCD Display Liquid CPU Cooler. Very easy to install and use AIO.

[@evocybernation8839]

@@are3287, I could have purchased the iCUE H150i ELITE and obtained temperatures around 66-69 degrees Celcius on a full load nonstop.

[@slayimm1469]

@@evocybernation8839 with the retrofit kit right?

[@classicdill121]

Hey Jay an idea for some content I would like to see you cover is monitor flickering issues. Lots of gaming panels seem to have gsync/vsync issues. I've been trouble shooting this for while now and it seems like it's a pretty common issue. Would love some advice on how to fix.

[@MrDice347]

From my experience with aftermarket coolers, not just liquid coolers, their mounting system is very jank and I have ALWAYS had to jury rig it to sit properly. I just wish my 1st gen Corsair H60se (from like 10yrs ago) could manage the temps of a 12700KF so I know if I installed it the best I could or adjust it better.

[@smokeyninja9920]

I forgot where, but was reading different boards were causing the cpu to go from flat on its own to convex in the socket. The suggested fix was a good stiff backplate to prevent flexing/morphing around the socket, claim was it kept the cpu from doming and helped a bit with thermals (but as you said temps high because power draw high)

[@thomasschrader8436]

Right, Igor has mentioned, that boards with a strong metallic backplate - as Jayz had used - seems not beeing effected.

[@TheOriginalFaxon]

When I was a teenager I loved lapping my CPU for the performance gain. I'd run my rig without thermal paste on those lap jobs. I had a jig I built to lower the cpu or cooler down evenly, and you could mount cpu coolers into it as well with some additional parts. Mirror finish on the CPU and the cooler and no thermal paste netted me better temps than i've ever had, but the amount of work isn't worth it anymore IMO, especially with the gains from overclocking being so much lower than back then. At the time we were taking 2.8-3.3ghz CPUs to clock speeds similar to what you see today. Took an e8700 to 5.2ghz in 2010, lapped mirror flat along with the water block that was running it. Same CPU ran 5ghz all day 24/7 stable as well for years before it got replaced with a 3770k if memory serves, dude was broke AF but had plenty of sanding supplies lying around since his dad did auto detailing lol

[@pronewbofficial]

I wonder if liquid metal between the IHS and cold plate would've helped or hurt your temps.

[@TheOriginalFaxon]

@@pronewbofficial hard to say, the chip and cooler tended to vacuum seal together, it could get really difficult to pry the CPU off if you pressed it against the cold plate when it was out of the socket. My bet is it wouldn't have any significant effect, or would just make it worse. One of the installations I did this way actually cold vacuum welded together because of how perfectly flat it was. It was installed for a long time and at some point part of the IHS copper and the cold plate copper just fused together lol. Normally this would never happen since copper oxidizes super fast, but we think the friction of the 2 surfaces managed to disrupt enough oxide for it to be a non issue. We also basically did a finishing lap on both immediately before applying them together, so it only had seconds exposed to the air before getting installed for several years. It's a LOT of work though for very little gain at this point. Delidding the CPU and designing a cooling block that goes directly on die gives you far greater gains for less overall worki

[@dragonthc]

We're also talking 150w less TDP. I had an I7-3770k that ran for 9 years @4.3GHz on stock voltage with a Corsair H100. Never got above 65C at full load. I never touched the IHS. 77w vs 125w TDP and drawing far less current.

[@darthwiizius]

@@dragonthc I had a 4770 and I just stuck a tower cooler on it, nothing posh just big 'n' cheap with I think 5 or 6 pipes in a cheap case and that never went above 70C. Times have changed I suppose, Intel cranking up the electrons for performance more and more.

[@TheOriginalFaxon]

@@dragonthc Actually, at these OC levels you could expect 300w+ from the quad cores and up to 200-250w easily from the high end dual cores. Power levels were basically the same as today with intel's high power draw on the last few gens. Remember, we're talking about a bump of almost 2ghz and significant voltage increases from baseline. Like from 1.05-1.2v to as much as 1.45v, so more volts and more amps both (as a result of the clocks). The situation was similar on my 2600k at 4.7ghz, I had a VRM designed for 400w+ just to hit that as a daily stable OC under water. This was before intel started using thermal paste under the IHS, I basically stopped OCing around then because I wasn't comfortable with delidding at the time, and the boost speeds of the 4790k were good enough for the time. With my Q9650 at 4.7ghz daily driving, and crossfire HD5870s also overclocked, I actually killed a 1050w Enermax PSU (Revolution 85+, came highly rated by jonnyguru himself), should have gone with the 1250w model lol. This was back when I ran 6 hard drives, tons of LED strips, 2 pumps @ 30w each, and 15 fans, so even with only ~900w going to the 2 GPUs and CPU, that only left 150w of overhead for all of that. You do the math xD

[@WrathchildVU]

this 12gen is perfect for winter. need to get one

[@JohnDoeC78]

Also don't forget a 3090ti! My 3090 aorus extreme has AIO surely transfers heat from gpu to the room creating a crack oven

[@ChewyGDRP]

If you find acquiring tempered glass, to lap, hard to find, try a granite or marble food chopping board. Cheap and easy to find in a supermarket.

[@neomis0119]

haven't lapped a cpu in years, when I do my OCD kicks in and i make a whole thing out of it, just checked my 12900k and it it was as flat as can be, no light using a ruler and a precision speed square.

[@user-pwfus]

Oh wow I just learned something new thank you Jay it has been a while since I have learned something new.

[@jaceyrector9320]

There’s a technique to lapping something like that. You put that glass setup on a barrel. You sand say 10 circles. Then you turn the cpu 90° clockwise while you walk 90° counter clockwise around the barrel. Repeat till you’re back where you started

[@ConeJellos]

Or you know, you don't and it makes almost no difference to temps.

[@jaceyrector9320]

True. But it could be useful for anyone lapping any sort of heat sink. Good thermal paste and ever more efficient cpus help mitigate the effects of them not being perfectly flat. And if you’re going to lap the cpu you should do the same to the heat sink. For many people including myself lapping the surfaces isn’t necessary. But if someone wants to give it a try this could be useful so more problems aren’t created.

[@sirjizzalot]

Or a figure 8 pattern

[@xero6912]

@@jaceyrector9320 I've been wondering how many people actually see a temp issue with their Intel CPUs that they would need to consider doing much to them. I'm running a 10900k with a Corsair H100i, and I literally just pulled everything out of the boxes and put them in my system. I've never messed with after market thermal paste and the highest I've ever seen my CPU temps get is the high 70s, maybe 80 at a spike. My old 9590fx AMD CPU with the same model of cooler used to get 85c+ easily, and it had half the cores with the same clock speeds. I guess maybe if I was into over clocking I might need to do something, but as I sit now with the base clocks and base boosting clocks everything runs cool in my 7 year old NZXT Phantom case. I even have a 3090 sitting in the case air cooling and it peaks at about 80c when I am putting a full load on it, so the air in the case is warm and goes up through my CPU rad, but the temps still never get high.

[@jaceyrector9320]

@@xero6912 Ya my pc is “stock”. I’ve never bothered lapping a CPU. Even back in the single core days when I had an alcohol cooled monster. Back then 70° would damage a cpu over time. But on my pc now I’ve never seen a need to overclock. My computer is a tool so I can work on my other hobbies. Gaming, 3D cad, etc. I assume I’m similar to the average pc user and My pc is more than enough without doing anything to it. But for some the hobby is getting the most you can out of a pc. And if that’s the case you do anything you can to eek out a bit of performance.

[@swaffdog6521]

I'd be curious if lapping the cold plate on the AIO as well would have any effect on the temps.

[@natiezclement4400]

You need to do this mod BEFORE your CPU already turned concave. It's a mod to avoid it bending overtime and thus losing contact with your cooler (unless you wanna repaste every week) or having worst thermal 'cause more thermal past needed. It's still good to do even once it turned concave, so it doesnt keep bending overtime (and thus turn temps bad again). Either way, that's not something you can notice on new builds or builds that doesnt last more than few days.

[@VintageCR]

so you're saying you need to add the 4 total washers before you even put a new 12th gen intel cpu in the socket?

[@natiezclement4400]

@@VintageCR ideally, yes.

[@jasone2240]

Great test thanks. I was about to try with my asus motherboard but won't now. One thing though, the solution tested is the same as the artical but the explanation is different. The artical says that it is the chip holder not the cooler that's bending the die. Adding washers to reduce chip holder pressure makes sense but the video implies that excess cooler pressure is the problem. I would expect lifting the chip would increase this. What am I missing?

[@1starfish11]

I can confirm it worked for me, on gigabyte z690 ud and arctic freezer 34 esports duo temp drops from 84 to mosty 77, sometimes 80 but mosty is 77C. This is 7C drop!

[@tdb0ne1]

you didnt say what cpu you had and where do you get the washers or a part number for them? thanks

[@1starfish11]

@@tdb0ne1 i9-12900kf, 8mm plastic washers from hardware store

[@MrHowardMoon]

I've just canceled my order of LGA 1700 parts. I can't be bothered dealing with another socket issue like I had to during the Skylake days.

[@normandgagne4561]

I am using my Noctua DH 15 air cooler using the 1200 mounting holes on my Asus Prime Z690-A and am getting great thermal readouts of 35C to 45C max so I do not have any problem with my thermals. Lucky I guess.

[@j340_official]

What about when you run an all-core Cinebench load ? What are the temps?

[@thealien_ali3382]

Mostly likely running stock or lowered vcore

[@NorthsideChamps16]

@@j340_official if Cinebench is the only thing that gets the cpu hot why does it matter? If all you do for 8 hours a day is run that benchmark then Ok. But for gaming ?

[@j340_official]

@@NorthsideChamps16 that's not my point. The original person said he or she has 35C to 45C max temps at idle. That's great. At idle those temps are normal. But the original person also claims to that the lga 1200 mounting mechanism for his/her cooler has no issues. But to investigate that claim we must ask what are the temps under load? If temps are normal (75-80 C) then that claim probably is true. But if temps ramp to 100C then there could be a problem with the mounting mechanism... You might think all you do is game so therefore you never use all cores, but sometimes windows update or some other program may temporarily need to use all cores and if temps are spiking to 100C+ that could be a problem. Especially if overclocked. So don't just use data at idle and think you're fine. Instead, I suggest to be an empiricist and test various use cases to see if your theory (that lga1200 mounting is fine) holds up under various scenarios.

[@Dan-pr6me]

Love this kind of stuff. Very interesting.

[@larryrodriguez1977]

I'm building with an old 6700k. because of the issues that there were with the thickness of the substrate I took a 1/3 turn off the lock system and I've had great temps and hopefully no bent cpu

[@eight2seven]

I'm no mechanical engineer but I would think scuffing it a bit and providing more surface area for the thermal compound would actually improve thermal conductivity (assuming a flat plane). Isn't that the idea behind leaving the machining pattern on the water-block?

[@orlandogonzalez3939]

Much respect J for calling things how they are

[@khaychi]

Well, it's the E/P core first generation. I have no doubt it has one or the other issue. But i guess it gets better with 13th and 14th gen. 🤔

[@junhua8292]

Great content 🔥keep it up!

[@Breakfastnooka]

seeing the Corsair One in the back without the panels on. The swap has begun!

[@MarcsSpark]

Do i see the star wars build and a airbrush gun in the background! Excited

[@icommandoi145]

Nice I've never heard of kpx thermal paste/compound and have always used the tg kryonaut

[@Shayinator]

jay you should do more videos like this we like to see more

[@slimal1]

This worked for me...I dropped 10C I used the washers that came with my case...the ones for the mobo mounting. I have an i5-12400 on an Asus Prime H670-PLUS D4. I initially tried to bend part of the ILM to relieve the pressure, but that wouldn't budge even when heated.

[@slimal1]

I'm also using the stock cooler

[@PabzRoz]

I'm sure you already know this by now but if anyone is curious lapping a 12th gen CPU doesn't really do anything unless you lap it while it's clamped in the mounting bracket under pressure. You can lap the CPU all you want but as soon as you mount it back in the socket the mounting points clamp down and just bend your CPU again causing the little concave in the IHS. LGA 1700 dropped the ball on that one. Washer mod helps but still not worth lapping. You would literally need to sacrifice a mother board and cut out the mounting bracket while your CPU is clamped in it and then lap it while it's mounted so it will be lapped flat while under pressure. Either that or get the thermal grizzly mounting frame and ditch the stock mounting entirely.

[@mobilechaosyt]

I wonder if certain cooler manufacturers had softer or thinner cpu blocks causing them to be more susceptible to warping along with people tightening them too much.

[@DAh-xo8zm]

My 12900k with a NZXT Kraken 73 instantaneously hits 100c running cinebench. Gotta take this PC back to the shop!

[@LimbaZero]

I did "hack" cooler. bought new noctua where it had new spacers for 1700 socket and used these with old mounting kit for NH-D14. I think I had to limit 240W to keep around 80-90C. 250W limit it was hitting 100C

[@peanutadventures]

I've personally found most people get horrible cooling performance because they apply too much thermal compound, don't properly seat the brackets and heat sink, or don't properly tighten things. You literally just want to put a small 3-4mm drop in the center of the CPU and then install the heat sink. The heat sink will spread the compound out as you tighten it down such that it fills the valleys. In the case of the 12th gen intel, you could put smaller drops of thermal compound near the corners too -- maybe 2-3mm drops. But too much means that there's more material the heat has to transfer through before getting to the heat sink. That is not good. The sanding and all that is ridiculous in my opinion, and I wouldn't bother with any of that. I have an i9 12900k and the Noctua D15S cooler. In a fully enclosed case, Cinebench running, 2 front fans, 1 rear fan, and 2 fans on the heat sink (push, pull), I never go over 90c. When gaming, I hover between 45-50. Sitting idle on Windows desktop, I'm between 28c-32c.

[@xBINARYGODx]

you REALLY need to see the GN video about "too much thermal paste" - spoilers - you are wrong - you can out on a stupid amount and barely see a difference.

[@peanutadventures]

@@xBINARYGODx Pretty bold comment to just flat out say I'm wrong. Especially when I have personal data supporting my very assertions. Furthermore, you can go to Noctua's website and look at their instructions for how to apply thermal paste. You going to say Noctua is wrong too? Blobbing on a bunch of thermal paste is just going to make a mess by spreading the material all over the surrounding area and in the case of metallic material, could even cause damage if it comes in contact with electrical components. More is not better. The entire point of the compound is to ensure that the entire area of the chip is making contact with the metal plate on the heat sink or pump. Even Jay says the same thing, "...if you have a dome section.. thermal paste will do it jobs but it wont' be an efficient transfer of heat.."

[@meltingfaces10]

The z-height is *reduced* on lga1700, so old mounting kits don't have enough mounting pressure. For example, my alphacool water uses washers instead of just spring tension, like on lga1200

[@Lobanium]

Exactly why I bought an Asus board. My cooler doesn't yet have a conversion kit, but the Asus mobo comes with LGA 1200 mounting holes, and my cooler uses plastic spacers instead of standoffs. So I just didn't use the spacers and was able to screw it down tight onto my 12600k.

[@rickgrimes5659]

My 12900k in cinebench no overclock is staying in the low 80’s with a the Corsair h150i. I’ve remounted the cooler twice but there was even spread of thermal paste so other than you having an open test bench I wish mine would run that cool

[@X2cao]

I got Intel I5- 12600k, Asus Tuf Gaming Z690 and corsair icue h115i elite capellix works just fine using the existing mounting kits load temp 63 degree with 5Ghz performance cores and 4GHz efficient cores overclocked. I did ordered the CORSAIR Intel LGA 1700 Retrofit Kit, but hasn't arrived yet.

[@casey22857]

I want to know why we pay the crazy prices we pay for high end chip and they are not 100 percent flat to begin with like wtf. That is something that should have been fixed by now.

[@alherch]

I was thinking the same thing.. Would it be really that hard to mass produce the ihs at some reasonable degree of "flatness"?

[@bradhaines3142]

its a thin stamped piece of metal, machining that well is way more expensive than youd think

[@bradhaines3142]

@@alherch itd be a machining step, and a far more precise plating process. or they could skip the IHS entirely and sell it with a disclaimer

[@casey22857]

Guess it don't mater they ever address that kind of issue. They don't need to be flat in real life when you can't buy them anyway lol just flat in theory. By the time you get one the next gen of a not so flat chip will be out.

[@matthewchevres4970]

I went with EK Velocity 2 Cpu block with Lga 1700 mount it comes with. Temps are pretty good. 5.2 P-Cores 4ghz E-Cores 1.32 vcore (temps 59-64 while gaming at 1440p high settings)

[@fandibus]

Games don’t push the cpu hard. So those of us with the issue are unaffected while gaming. Try running Cinebench r23 and it may be a different story. Though your gaming temps are rather high.

[@chriss377]

Would love to see a test with liquid metal on 12th gen. Had to do that and lap an 11th gen to get it under control. My OC'd 12th runs hot even with a 420mm AIO.

[@chriss377]

Yep Artic Freezer Liquid II 420mm AIO.

[@kevinfromsales6842]

Crazy it still runs hot with a 420. I was surprised that mine ran hot with a 360.

[@Popsicle_MP]

I wonder if all the folks calling it hot are using pre applied paste on their coolers. Although running hot may just be different to what they're used to, if you went from 35 to 45 idle temp, sure it's fine, but it would seem hot by comparison. especially if they overlooked something like power draw or voltages.

[@jc.1191]

The stock paste lasts a lifetime, usually good performance for stock. It's probably ignoring proper power ratings like you said.

[@tilburg8683]

No applied it myself with a x shape and also tried to spread it out with some spreader thing once. Doesn't make much of a difference either way and my temps in prime 95 are easily 70c stock settings with a 12600k and one of the best aios you can get. Overclocked it easily goes over 100c if it wasn't throttling. And I am used to much cooler cpus(funny thing is I had a 300w cpu heavily overclocked with worse cooling that ran much cooler). But these temps are just literal fire. Even laptops are easily 30 degrees celcius cooler if not much more. The hottest cpus ever prior to these few years were easily that much cooler.

[@Popsicle_MP]

@@jc.1191 yeah it's amazing how many people talked about AMDs 5800X thermals, but overlooked the part where most boards are running default it at around 140W admittedly i haven't had an intel chip in a long time, but I feel like that would be the first place to look if it ran hotter than I had anticipated

[@Popsicle_MP]

@@tilburg8683 yeah I tend to find as long as you get full coverage the application of paste makes little difference, I was more thinking at least with some AIOs I've seen in the past pre applied thermal paste is insufficient to fully cover the IHS, probably more noticeable if they did have a concave/convex IHS and were conservative with the amount of pressure they put on the CPU socket, but having used AMD for so long now I feel like I would just instinctively feel like most intel chips run warm by comparison even though they're fine.

[@techboy95]

So from the beginning of the video when you mentioned that your high spots are on the outside, I immediately though, I wonder if the bowing out affect wouldn’t hurt your chip.

[@Jake39019]

I have a decent idea for a video, I thought about this while building my engine for my car. Copper gasket spray as thermal paste. The spray would adhere well to the cpu and could maybe work. I'm thinking not very well, but would be interesting to see. If it worked, one can would last you a lifetime. Also it's not permanent.

[@GregtheAwesomeNinja]

Great idea, would be a fun watch!

[@Juan800PimpBot]

Just got to be careful that it dosent get in the pins or it will most likely short out the CPU or other parts on the motherboard. If you applied it specifically to the surface of the CPU it would be fine as long as it's not corrosive.

[@05milmachine90]

Try some nickel and/or copper based anti seize compound while he is at it. They look like they would make awesome "heat sink goo"

[@gbye007]

Would this be any diferent in performance to existing liquid metal products (Thermal Grizzly)?

[@jonathaneberlein5650]

If I got the 1700 specific standoffs from Corsair for the h150i. Is this still an issue or are the new standoffs to address this issue?

[@Etervi0n]

Jayz then what should we do? I'm using a Corsair H150i with the LGA 1200 screws while I wait for the LGA 1700 ones but temps are good already, shall the likes of me risk damaging the CPU with the LGA 1700 screws or stay with the old gen ones?

[@TechWithSean]

I think the Corsair LGA 1700 Retrofit Kit may fix this for their coolers at least, they sell them on their website for like $3.

[@slayimm1469]

i have a h00i cappelix with the retrofit kit and my temps are max 65 even on stress test

[@VR6NAVYVW]

Do you check the flatness of your cooler plate also though? Also maybe buy a machinists edge and some feeler gauges.

[@BluerayDriver]

Nice Video and interesting, but I wonder if I checked, if the motherboard got bent a little bit. Maybe not because of the big mobo shield on the back.

[@Sandeepan]

5:06 "I'm Linusing everything today... Ya, that's flat"

[@tommypearson9260]

Jay over here looking like Sabortooth Victor Creed Wolverine would be jealous

[@carnut3]

If the the new 12th gen socket it taller than I would think that if the same hardware was used from the old gen then there would be way to much pressure on the CPU and motherboard and would definitely cause the motherboard to flex and probably the CPU. So putting some washers in-between the standoffs and motherboard would help elevate that pressure as long as there's enough threads to do that.

[@mikerzisu9508]

Jay, I am about to pull the trigger on a lian li galahad, and I bought the 1700 compatible bracket separately from microcenter. Am I in good shape or do I still run the risk of bowing the cpu due to excessive pressure?

[@Rouladen1]

But can you use the temperatures to anything when your MB is not in a case, but out in the open?

[@rgracon]

what about concave + slight bowing (due to mounting pressure on the corners) = flatter?

[@Roadkill7878]

Jay. That was a very interesting test. Thanks for the time spent doing it. It really helps me understand 👍🏻

[@jakejones9502]

Better add another ten degrees for a closed case Jay. Do it with a cheaper cooler. We don't have $300.00 for a cooler.