you're playing Saryn wrong (full guide, builds, hot takes, and proof)

[@tenebra9385]

Just finished building the whole Kuva Sobek setup, and after only a few hours, I was already searching for a replacement, despite the time it took to build. Many newbies, like me, fall into the trap of clickbait KZbinrs who showcase weapon builds in ideal conditions, misleading us about Miasma's effectiveness at high levels. That's why people get defensive when someone suggests otherwise-they've invested so much time in making these builds. The video was definitely too long, but it was worth it to learn how to play Saryn at her best. Thank you 💚

[@Maikolski]

Yeah, the sunk-cost-fallacy is a bitch! Sad to see people wanting to make others feel bad just because they are hurt.

[@baileyroberts8647]

I’ve just finished the kuba sobek build and it’s brillant, running through lvl200 steel path enemies you must be doing something wrong

[@Unified-Codex]

As an avid Saryn enjoyer I liked much of the information in this video, although the idea of a weapons platform Saryn being bad is obviously factually inaccurate

[@ragnarokgaming1113]

No it is bad in comparison clearing multiple rooms or killing a hall of enemies is the difference

[@scripzesbaab6277]

Comparing her as a weapon platform to the best ones like ember, she isn‘t as ideal.

[@urx4]

@@scripzesbaab6277weapon platform ember is nowhere near saryn LMFAO. you are sped

[@Isaac.Sheepadoodle]

Weapons platform best saryn

[@MrHephesto]

Hi! Me again ^_^ Just wanted to thank you for this so detailed video. I built similar build to yours - shield gating one - but used venom dose instead of revealing spores (me like weapons unga bunga) and equilibrium instead of cunning drift. Ended up having the most fun in Warframe I had in years. So once again: Thank you!

[@Malurth]

happy to help! and thanks for the praise 😅

[@calvinhenry6647]

This was an awesome video! I learned alot and have been using your Gloomtank setup. Praying that I can get an umbral forma in the near future. Thank you.

[@belacvance595]

Feels pretty disingenuous to constantly be hating on the weapons platform build, and then when you go to showcase a weapons platform build, you're just using a normal max range min strength build with roar slapped on and no Venom Dose. I feel like this is an alright guide for base Saryn, and i'm glad to have corrected the wiki's misconception about how spore snapshotting works, but kinda oof with the weapons platform stuff.

[@Malurth]

corrected that in my kuva sobek vid, conclusion is the same

[@sammoreno8405]

Honestly this is my favorite way to play her out of all the ways I’ve been trying to play her. It actually makes the most sense thanks for making this video so I can actually melt the whole map with ease

[@comrahday]

i never really took the time to learn her properly but now that ive got a free prime one, this vid was awesome. always found building spores frustrating bc i didnt understand her 4, gave a very watered down version of the gloom build a spin (still need tome mods) and fell in love, good shit man, cant wait to get the full thing up and running

[@MonkeezOnFire]

I main Saryn and this video cleared up the main thing I was still confused about and then some. Thank you for confirming that emerald shard corroded enemies is a separate multiplier that is actually worth using. But the thing that really shook me is the demonstration of the power strength snapshotting on spores. This whole time I just took what was on the wiki for true and didn't question it. I've adjusted some things in my build to be a tad more optimal

[@DasGrimbo]

THANK YOU for this! You cut through the b.s. of this build and that build with this gun and that gun finally! Added this to my favorites for further research and use to build up my Saryn.

[@chuvanhop9720]

I stopped warframe after noobshowtek is gone, however you really made me back into the game. Detailed guide and the way you build quite the same as what I expected to do things

[@rarebarney5681]

commenting this as I watch, I love gloom saryn but im excited to see how other people build her, favorite frame fr

[@martontoth2063]

Good to see a vid like this. I couldn't bring myself to helminth away miasma cuz i really liked it thematically, so i got rid of molt as well. I like casters more anyways.

[@rockstar-made]

This video genuinely changed everything for me, Saryn is my favorite frame and the one i've been playing exclusively for hundreds of hours and most of it was with a weapons platform so i was very stubborn when going into this video and even disliked it due to your tone... And then i actually listened and played Saryn with her actual kit like you said. Holy shit. You're absolutely right, weapon platforms is strong but when using Saryn's actual strengths it doesn't even compare. Thanks.

[@ifvta]

Thanks for the video! It made wanna give up ❤️

[@corn_enthusiast]

i like you

[@shyzue6265]

To use a weapon buff you need to : - have 2 green archon shards - use the weapon buffs of saryn (toxic lash & venom dose) and a buff like roar - shoot ennemies I insist on the "use the weapon buffs of saryn (toxic lash & venom dose) and a buff like roar" cause you didnt use them Also the sobek isnt the only weapon usable with saryn, try melee builds like nami solo or if you want a range weapon try ocucor. But in any case if you use the buffs everything works and sobek works especially great too.

[@Malurth]

post the build you want me to use and I'll do a run just for you 🙂 in my experience venom dose on sobek is kind of pointless since it can only strip the main target. when it explodes, the explosion will still hit fully armored targets and do basically nothing. so you need to full strip them with spores first. at which point you should just make the spores do the killing for you too and save yourself the significant downgrade of having to manually kill them yourself, no? only weapon that seems like it might compete is incarnon dual ichors, but in practice I've found it just performs worse than a good spore DPS build (now that ichors are nerfed to not proc melee influence on the death clouds, anyway. and yes that's with Roar).

[@reapershyzue1650]

​@@Malurth 2 times that my msg doesnt work on the other account so here i come with another one to answer you. I wont send you a build cause i think its useless but what i can recommend you is to watch the video named " Warframe | Saryn: Perfected | Steel Path | Build & Guide | 2024 " by kyaii. He explains everything even some math and shows a build you can copy, and it's a 10 minutes video so its not too long. One more thing, Try the builds (the one of the video by kyaii and yours) on another map because the one you used has 3 floors which is extremely in favor of your build, I need to precise that its okay, you wanted to show your build in the best situation and it doesnt bother me i would've done the same. I'll wait for your feedback after watching the vid and testing his build.😁

[@Malurth]

@@reapershyzue1650 well I can't copy the saryn build exactly cuz it's 3x Y polarity mods while I only got room for 1 atm...sooo you're gonna have to wait like 4-5 days while my saryn prime #2 builds 😂 and kinda funny, I already shouted that vid out in another comment here somewhere. tho true, I should have made a mirror build in the first place. that way I could easily deflect all criticism! I'm legit building another saryn prime now (I could have spammed formas on my current one but I don't wanna mess up all my current builds) so just be patient, I promise I will test proper when it's done cooking :^)

[@Lanaestra]

I used to run a build nearly identical to the Gloom build shown, but after getting a second free Saryn Prime from Tennocon I started experimenting a bit more and honestly i am now durationpilled for Saryn. Im using Molt a lot more with a shield gate style of build and regenerative molt and just accepting that im a glass cannon, which is pretty manageable with those tools and I really enjoy the speed boost. That and the overall better energy economy when i don't have to feed Gloom, it really can't be overstaded how much of a sink on energy economy options that helmonth option is. But the thing is, with 170% duration, you have to cast Miasma significantly less, *plus* you keep toxic lash up longer, and you can enjoy a longer speed boost from Molt which actually brings it into a comfy range for actually using it to get around which actually helps keep the spore spread up because with the range on spores and miasma it can actually really easily get ahead of you and start dying off because it's just killing things too dang fast. I do wish DE would give Regenerative Molt the treatment they gave the heals from Frost, Ember, and Styanax where overheals give you a bit of overguard though, would take a bit of the pressure off mandatory PSF and make R.Molt definitively worth its mod slot (heck, would probably make Molt an actually competitive helminth option outside of turbo niche situations).

[@Malurth]

miasma isn't just spammed to keep the sickness duration up, it's also spammed to tag more enemies as you move around. that's why enemies are dying off too fast for you to maintain it, you gotta be really proactive about hunting down the spawns and tagging them (though you also kind of need a cooperative tileset with a lot of ingress points, otherwise you'll just wind up chasing the spores down a tunnel until you reach a dead end and they die out). I don't think molt speed boost is very useful on saryn for this either, a praedos + amalgam barrel diffusion is enough for her to be fast enough. agreed with regenerative molt overguard tho, that's a good idea that might make that augment worth considering (tho they'd probably make it Saryn-only, like they did with Fire Blast overguard). glass cannon build is wholly incompatible with health regen, presumably that means "uses shield gating or something" and not "just dies when enemies get too strong," lol. that's why my shield gate build uses Nourish; allows building Blind Rage to pump strength and still have a good energy economy. I find that a lot more handy than a molt speed boost, personally.

[@despair2291]

Love the vid! Saryn is one of my favs. Especially spore spread nuke. Thought i heard you mention that the spores could heal you with something or what not, tried to go back and find it and couldnt.. was i just half asleep or is that a legit synergy i havent seen before?

[@Malurth]

spores heal you when you pair it with the Gloom helminth ability, which makes all the damage you deal heal you.

[@s15240drifter69]

Okay hear me out. Venom dose, toxic lash, xatas whisper, ocucor. Toss a spore cast out there every once in a while.

[@nevius6564]

26:27 The reason is to have fun. Maybe it's not as efficient as spore builds but if you're having fun with it then that's the only thing that matters. We're talking about a video game after all.

[@Malurth]

as I always say, I'm not the fun police. if you want to eschew efficiency in the pursuit of fun factor, I'll not speak ill of the notion. but conversely I ask that you not look down upon the efforts of those who find their fun from viewing the game as an optimization puzzle instead.

[@janeeisklar5536]

Didn't expect you to dodge the ocucor. But still very informative and helpful vid

[@beeco711]

No one is denying that spore/ miasma builds are the king of survival missions. But when it comes to just about any other mission, the flexibility afforded by a gun buff saryn is invaluable. Sobek is a mainstay, but Nightwatch Napalm is necessary for Arbitrations. For non-steel path Combustion Beam is ideal, due to it having a better fall off percentage than Acid Shell and fixed damage. As a principle I don't use chain detonation weapons unless they can kill an enemy in one shot, or under half a second. I can help you cook up a solid gun buff build if you want.

[@Malurth]

actually a lot of people are denying that lol regardless IMO if you don't need what she does best (massive range constant fodder melting) then you're better off simply picking a different frame entirely. other than map melt, the only thing she has going for her is Toxic Lash/Venom Dose shenanigans (hence chain detonation weapons), but those hardly outperform any other decent weapons platform build, which usually come with a whole host of other great perks that vastly outweigh Toxic Lash synergies (foolproof survivability, strong mobility, other even better buffs, loot abilities, etc). but yeah if you got builds I'm down to see em. you'd be the first brave enough to post your own

[@beeco711]

@@Malurth overframe gg/build/673008/ Just tested with a Nightwatch Napalm Kuva Ogris on Taveuni. I got 630 KPM. I do however have 3 Green Archon shards 2 +2 corrosive (largely useless here), 1 10% ability damage on enemies effected by corrosive (this helps toxic lash), and then 2 Tauforged Red Archon shards for 30% total ability strength. Venom dose is handy for two reasons here, one is scales Toxic Lash due to any and all toxin mods counting toward it's modifier. Two the corrosive status effects give Toxic Lash a multiplicative 10% damage. This shield gate build is a bit less sweaty than a Catalyzing Shields version. But a lot higher investment. If you want to put Prime Sure Footed in you can use Vigilante Vigor in place of Fortitude.

[@beeco711]

@@Malurth overframe gg build 673008

[@beeco711]

@@Malurth How do you share a build via KZbin comments? None of my attempts have gone through.

[@beeco711]

​@@Malurth Aura: Brief Respite Exilus: Sure Footed Primed Flow, Fortitude, Venom Dose, Fast Deflection, Primed Redirection, Narrow Minded, Transient Fortitude, Umbral Intensify Arcanes: Molt Augmented (I don't own Molt Vigor) , Arcane Aegis Shards: 2 Green for Corrosive 1 Green for 10% ability on enemies with corrosive 2 Tauforged Red 15% Ability Strength Helminth: Xata's Whisper over Miasma (I know) This is a somewhat passive shield tank build. If you have the polarities for PSF then replace Fortitude with Vigilante Vigor. We use Venom Dose to scale Toxic Lash due tom the Archon shard and Toxic Lash's property of counting any and all toxin, even the corrosive off of Venom Dose or Viral off of Nourish. We try to keep Molt up at all times while we run and gun through the map for an almost 4x speed multiplier. For Steel Path Survival I use a Kuva Ogris with Nightwatch Napalm. For lower level speed running I use Acid Shells or Combustion Beam.

[@Super787B]

If you do want to run roar on her, the augment mod honestly works really well for what it does: a large range knockdown plus mass puncture proc spread. Enemies will do less damage while also knocking down the trash mobs which has saved my ass so many times in my level cap void cascade runs. Sentient Wrath will give you better bang for your buck though if you are able to get decent strength on it: it gets damage multiplication for its damage vulnerability when combined with your viral stacks while also providing good cc and also reducing the effectiveness of enemy overguard.

[@garvplaysgames]

I've never commented on a video before, but holy crap this build is insane. As a gun buff Saryn enthusiast, I was doubting how good this build would be. I tested out the nourish build with another Saryn and easily got 250kpm with a pretty bad tileset...I would usually get 100-150kpm using my Ocucor on a good tileset. Just wow. I'm just happy to be able to enjoy my two Saryns as a weapons platform and as a nuke!

[@davidballes5698]

Thank you for making this video. Saryn is my favorite, so i love it when people can teach me new things about her! Has your build changed at all since the consolidation of enemy health types & status rework from Jade Shadows?

[@Malurth]

not really, 2x corrosive emerald shards are still optimal vs max armor enemies, only real change is that running only 1x tau for +3 stacks is also pretty good, replacing the other shard with another +ability damage to corroded enemies means more dmg against less armored enemies. but that's also a lot more expensive. she is a little nerfed now since she stripped their armor anyway before, but the build doesn't really change as a result.

[@davidballes5698]

@@Malurth Fair enough. I do have one more question: If she was the best frame you had to pick during steel path duviri circuit, which build would you use if you also had trash weapons. I know this is an extreme scenario lol. I just want to be prepared for anything, and getting unlucky in circuit is one of those things 😅

[@jaryd_yarid]

Yeah kuva sobek is fun until level 115. Im coming back from a 4 year break and almost quit again after the kuva sobek was hyped so much for saryn and i spent 30h grinding what i need for kuva liches from scratch. This build works better in sp even without archons which i don't have yet.

[@Shocefire]

I really want a fast setup for quick missions since gloom is more about a slow ramp playstyle

[@Malurth]

yeh, I hear ya. in that case have you heard of our lord and savior wukong?

[@Shocefire]

@@Malurth Subsuming over Miasma after this one

[@Tricsterfull]

You forgot to mention Ancient Disruptor problem with Gloom. You run out of energy in the instant and then you dead

[@Malurth]

didn't forget to mention so much as have never run into that problem in my life 🤷‍♂

[@eb3900]

That's why I can't keep my counter up. Wasn't spamming miasma enough. Been barred from playing since 2016, but cross saves have finally arrived

[@brianbrowneyes5382]

Very informative and some good points made! As much as I like longer content, I think you'd benefit from having things a little more scripted and edited down more, as things started rambling at some points.

[@Malurth]

yeah that's why I added "sorry this vid is so awful, but I just had to get it out there" in the description 😅 I will try to do better in the future, and thx for the feedback :3

[@nothanks3305]

You completey misrepresented the Sobek build! You need Roar and power strength+duration. Preferably like 170 dur and 200 pow Toxic lash scales based on your toxic mods on weapon so I do viral+heat you can also do corrosive heat. I can one or two shot lvl 200+ eximus with the normal Sobek and it will kill any enemies chaining if there's an enemy within 15 meters. Try it out.

[@Malurth]

yeah ik I'll hold that L. I fixed this by doing a follow-up vid when the kuva sobek dropped that actually used a proper build

[@palea1335]

please redo your segment on saryn weapons platform. not the weird kuva sobek miasma builds, a genuinely solid roar toxic lash build made to absolutely decimate demolysts, thrax units, and clear out rooms with weapons like the torid, or well, any aoe weapon. this is because toxic lash INNATELY triple dips on roar, allowing its produced toxin proc to have (at 400% strength) 2.2*2.2*2.2, or 10.6x, more dmg than an ordinary toxin proc. when you combine this with elementalist and 2 tauforged toxin status dmg shards, you get a toxin proc dealing roughly 30x more dmg than it would normally be doing. in addition, blast status effect interacts in a very special manner with toxic lash, in that it procs ANOTHER toxic lash hit. so it ends up as base hit (first roar dip), blast (second roar dip), toxic lash (third roar dip), toxin status effect (fourth roar dip). A QUADRUPLE DIP on roar. that also double dips on elementalist mod. only dips once on toxic status dmg shards though. also, even ignoring all that status effect dmg nonsense, toxic lash base dmg: double dips on headshots double dips on roar is affected by venom dose this is objectively THE strongest way to play saryn in disruption and void cascade. you will not be getting the same level of results with spores saryn. i use this with torid, just activate roar, venom dose, and toxic lash, and the torid INSTANTLY KILLS sp circulus even an hour in. no need for any weird sobek shenanigans, just raw slaughtering. i'll admit, maybe spores saryn is better for survival. but who's going to level cap in survival?? and why?? also, yes, i do helminth off miasma over molt. not enough range to be convinced to keep miasma, molt provides much needed survivability through shield gating, taking enemy fire (least important), and providing a ton of speed.

[@Malurth]

admittedly I haven't reevaluated it since blast changes + elementalist dropped. sounds like it might finally be good now lol. good post, thx for the info

[@palea1335]

@@Malurth np, apologies if i came off a bit aggressive in any way. i've watched several of your vids and have seen you're very competent, so i was a bit confused as to why you called weapons platform saryn bad and why you focused so heavily on sobek in your examples, when that's just a mediocre, over-hyped way to use weapons platform saryn lol

[@Malurth]

ok after some testing I agree she does seem to be one of the best ++damage weapon platforms in the game; she does do a great job of quickly deleting whatever she fires at, even moreso than other cracked platforms like Mirage/Lavos/Frost. however she remains quite squishy and slow, so I still don't really see the point of picking her into void cascade/disruption. plenty of frames can drop thrax without issue even up to lv9999, so I'd rather pick a safer/faster option. disruption maybe since I don't fuck with level cap disruption, but seeing as I've seen it done with a tranq gun (kzbin.info/www/bejne/n6rThKGvitWZipo) I have a hard time imagining you really need top end damage. and sure optimizing your survival KPM is fairly pointless too, since survival is a timer mode and that doesn't speed it up at all (and there are better picks for Exterminate/Defense as well). but generally speaking I find the spore build(s) to be very effective in general, whereas the weapon platform build(s) just seems to be "weapons but more damage," which doesn't strike me as particularly helpful when I already have more than enough damage for most cases. (indeed, that is why the Sobek is notable; toxic lash allows it to chain explosions when it normally does not do that.) and in the cases where I want more damage, I have safer/faster picks that still do enough. or it's an attenuation status capped boss, in which case meh. but ok I will concede that weapons platform saryn as a concept is not bad. it is hard to knock the sheer damage. I just still don't think it's a particularly practical pick into any missions rn.

[@palea1335]

@@Malurth oh, 100% agreed that saryn is super squishy. that's why i try to run a good amount of survival stuff on her when i'm trying to go endurance with her, rolling guard, brief respite, arcane aegis, even vazarin if i'm doing disruption. definitely a very intense frame to take for an hour or longer in void cascade, though you won't be lacking in damage at least. not saying saryn's the best for void cascade or disruption- that crown probably goes to ash. as for the issue of her damage being too much and way overkilling the enemies, resulting in her efficiency losing out, that's why i use the torid for most missions when i run her. the torid instantly kills, with a brief click, upward of a dozen enemies, not because of any special mechanics, but because all enemies die on the first tick, allowing it to instantly focus on other enemies the next tick... but that probably also has a lot to do with the torid just being busted lol

[@Malurth]

@@palea1335 yea exactly...the torid kind of already deletes whatever it touches. this was kind of my main point with the vid, yea saryn can buff her weapons to the point where they can instadelete whatever they touch, but wouldn't you rather they just already be dead to spores before they can even reach you? ofc this doesn't apply to thrax/demolysts etc but that was what I was getting at (and like I said, for those modes, imo there are just better frames to pick in the first place). also ash?? interesting pick. I don't play ash enough to refute it lol

[@poseidonofblue717]

Good video! I do think that there is no "right" way to play a warframe tho. The enjoyment of games is being able to do what you want regardless of other peoples opinions (: I know I'll certainly use both of these builds. I rolled a very nice sobek riven that I will really enjoy using on the Saryn sobek build! To you disliking molt so much hurts me! I love the speed boost too much to let it go lol. The faster I can move the more fun I have (: Thanks for all the good info and comprehensive breakdown of her abilities synergies.

[@Critical_Zero]

Molt also cleanses all status procs, why I always keep it on her personally.

[@aximoral3657]

its a matter of preference ngl , gloom just makes it so u dont have to worry about survivability anymore

[@Malurth]

yeh, hence my lil note in the description that you can play however you want, I was just being a lil clickbaity (tho imo if you want the most performant Saryn this is the way) and hence why I use Molt on my Gauss :p if you wanna go fast on Saryn I find that Praedos + Amalgam Barrel Diffusion generally works well enough

[@Alatyreon]

​@@Malurthyou use Molt on your gauss? You earned yourself a teeny tiny 1 sub

[@DerQuoi]

i used to run fleeting expertise, transient fortitude and primed continuity on saryn to get miasma duration to nearly the same value as its stun. but now that i got gloom subsumed i switched expertise to streamline because the gloom upkeep is lower and she got waaaay tankier anyway and use whatever weapon i feel like (mostly something infested like mios or scoliac) for spreading, spores and miasma only when i get too close to a detron crewman or the last spore is ticking out somewhere

[@Juandisimo3]

Hydroid mains see free stonks with all the corrosion stacks (they will have max armor and dmg buff from their pirate ability)

[@coyork15]

This is a great video, tons of information. Honestly, I'm surprised but I did learn a few things, even though I've been using Saryn quite a lot. I have some notes/ questions. I think one consideration is just that spores won't work on every enemy in the game. Weapons are really helpful for that reason. Still, toxic lash is so insane that I think even a spores-oriented Saryn can buff weapons well for those situations. Although, the enemies that can't be spored are kinda the only ones that matter since the rest are pretty trivial fodder. Idk, I'll have to try yours out, very curious to do so. I would echo the other comment about scripting. There's so much information here, it might have been more efficient to convey it with a script. That said, I do really appreciate that you use the KZbin video time slot feature to label sections. I was surprised by your comment about using the additional damage to enemies effected by corrosive. I'd heard that that wasn't very good relative to power strength/ the +45% toxin damage. I'm assuming that the Toxin damage matters less for non weapon platform builds, but still curious if you've done any math on that. TBH I have that slot for duration just because Nourish is so damn slow, but I'm torn on it and have been considering putting another +45% toxin, and now I'm wondering if maybe the corrosive damage would be better. Thanks for the great video.

[@Malurth]

spores work on *almost* every enemy in the game, there are a few boss exceptions and for some reason roller drones are also immune. but yeah I mean I'm not saying you should never shoot a gun, occasionally there's a particularly beefy target that would be helpful to shoot at. but you can just bring any gun you like for that, as far as killing tons of fodder enemies goes I see no reason to stray from a spore DPS focus. the toxin damage shard does almost nothing at all for a spore focused build. it adds to your Toxin Lash damage output and nothing more. it is a helpful consideration for weapon-focused builds, as toxin lash spreading with the 'chain' weapons is boosted by those shards, but for reasons argued in the vid I don't think there's really much merit in weapon-focused builds in the first place, thus little merit for toxin shards. as for Str shards I went over why I prefer +ability damage shards over those in the vid :3

[@coyork15]

@@Malurth Got it, thanks! And thanks again for the video, definitely the most comprehensive video I've seen on Saryn.

[@Nightmareblackop]

Hey, commenting for to show support and also provide some suggestions. Plz just try subsuming Condemn for over your molt for your shield gate build. I did this myself with Primed redirection and it works really good with as condemn cares about the same 2 stats Saryn really cares about which are strength and range. It provides a bit of CC as well. Again its really easy to use and you don't have to tip toe around energy management and timing and constrained. u can literally swap condemn for gloom and redirection/primed redirection instead of health.

[@Malurth]

ay, thanks for the support and suggestion! but eh, the point of the gloom build is braindead easy mode, Condemn is definitely higher effort; and conversely, on my shieldgate build, I really need more energy, not more shields, so Nourish definitely still seems like the pick to me. and if I didn't need energy, my next pick would almost certainly be Roar. and even if I wanted something more defensive my next next pick would be breach surge. getting shields just doesn't seem that useful to me when brief respite kind of does the trick by itself tbh.

[@emiliallthetime]

Hey, thanks for putting your ideas out for us to discuss more. But I also want to touch on a few things: It was difficult to listen to the video at length when you actively take a condescending tone on views that you aren't in agreement with. If you put your own information out there and create a strong argument, let that be enough to change the viewer's mind. Listening to you mock others or a certain build before going into the actual argument at several sections of the video is pretty annoying, IMO.

[@Malurth]

nah I got hater energy in my blood, it is what it is. besides it often triggers people who disagree to argue adamantly in favor of their position, so it's the optimal strat to make sure I understand the whole picture also I've lurked overframe.gg and the game itself long enough to know that yea, builds are not the community's strong point lol thx for the feedback tho, much appreciated :)

[@tomekk.1889]

​@@Malurth Yeah it's not "having hater energy in your blood" it's being a dick. That's not something to be proud of

[@beatboy367]

Finally a build i was looking for.😂😂

[@pedroantunes8754]

Not me seeing this while my saryn is in the foundry and farmed a 60% kuva sobek 2 days ago

[@faithfulfollower980]

i never liked going negative range on saryn (full-on weapons platform) wich is what you seem to be actually against, but you can easily run a range positive saryn and weapons like sobek or ogris for funny synergy and nothing changes, you are still a weapon platform, spores will spread fine with or without 4, as long you are hitting enemies and range is decent, i like running spores as armor strip, and damage. sobek just adds to the spores since explosions count as a weapon hit with toxicLash, wich spreads spores treating her like a caster frame IS oportunity cost loss, thats a role for xaku/protea/dante/gyre and company, saryn gets the best of both words just by building some range lmao. very informative info on spores tho, nice video.

[@dilybob6852]

me when I go in with saryn in steel path with roar and an unmodded melee and still kill things with it "dam saryn sucks" literally no matter what you do with saryn she will kill steel path that's just what saryn do

[@Kasandra_]

The builds are nice and very well thought out, but I feel like you kind of missed the context of what Saryn is actually used for by most players - spamming Miasma isn't even an option in ESO, which is Saryn's primary use. And while weapon platform Saryn doesn't get to use sobek there either, having a build rely heavily on 2 or 3 pieces (book, dirga) largely disqualifies it from circuit and deep archimedea while the alternative can still work fine with other guns. And while sure, miasma spam can do more damage in a 20 minute kuva survival, any build that won't die or run out of life support is pretty much equally viable for most people. So when a higher investment, less convenient build that only works in unrestricted content competes against a cheaper, simpler build that can still do everything most players need it to do easily and can actually deal with restrictions, it's no wonder the latter became the meta.

[@Malurth]

eh. Saryn gets outclassed by Mirage in ESO, and the only real reason to do ESO as a nuker is for focus farming or just carrying other players for fun. and ofc the healthtank build isn't suitable for circuit, that's where the shieldgate build steps in. though you can still make it work by dropping augur reach in favor of another efficiency mod, and fishing for the Parazon mercy kill str buff to cap your gloom slow. as for survival requirements...if you'll recall it's possible to solo survival without killing a single enemy. if you're comfortable setting the bar low, sure, that's your prerogative. but this vid is about optimizing her endgame level power, not catering to "good enough" low investment builds. also it's more 'sentinel' than 'diriga,' but I'm being nitpicky

[@MrHephesto]

Hey, I was doing some math here... perhaps I missed something or misunderstood. Could you please help me? Maths: 40 spores dmg/s To reach 100.000 dmg -> divide by 40 100.000 / 40 = 2500s -> now we want how many minutes, so... 2500s / 60 = 41.47 minutes. Assuming we always have max spores accumulating, it would take almost 42 minutes to reach maximum dmg. And then when going to level cap... We have some units HP Some examples (health at 10000 lvl base/sp): Corrupted Heavy Gunners - 751,718 / 1,879,295 Corpus Techs - 751,455 / 1,878,637 Juggernaut - 3,757,275 / 9,393,187 So it could take from 7 to 18 seconds to kill most units at level cap. That also assuming that we keep spores 100% of the time, without ever been without spores, to simplify calculations. With a weapons' platform build, you can quadruple dip with melee influence, reaching maximum damage (-2.1b, yes, it is negative) with one simple melee attack. The same can be achieved with weapons. My question would be: did I math something wrong? - Because it really seems like weapons platform saryn could explore much higher heights for damage, both burst and sustained, while also taking much less time.

[@MrHephesto]

One more thing! Could you share gameplay of level cap Void Cascade/Demolysts? Great vid! GL HF

[@Malurth]

argh sorry I took 5 days to respond to this, didn't see it at all. youtube notifications really need work smh. anyway: almost right on cap growth speed, though you are forgetting to factor in base damage; it doesn't start at 0. however this means starting from (100000-(Str*10)) instead of 100000 so this barely matters as for kill speed, you are forgetting several very important factors: 1. spores apply 3x to enemies. so the damage cap is more like 300,000 damage/s, not 100,000. 2. viral stacks from Miasma; a single stack doubles damage, and Miasma always applies a stack. you get another +25% to this bonus for each additional stack (+125%, +150%, +175%, etc.), so by spamming Miasma you can get enemies to die much faster (albeit less so on enemies that rely on shields). 3. +15% Ability Damage emerald shards ignore the cap, so for me who uses 2x the damage cap goes from 100k -> 130k (390k in practice). 390k dmg/s being multiplied 2-3x by viral stacks will absolutely chew through all of those enemies very quickly. A juggernaut might take a few seconds but they're Juggernauts, lol. Also reminder that spores spread out up to a range of Miasma range + spore spread range, which on a 265% build is 53m + 42.4m (over 95m, albeit usually less in practice), meaning enemies will start dying like this at a very long range, far exceeding anything a weapon could do. edit: oh and I don't have footage of level cap void cascade/demolysts with Saryn. frankly I wouldn't pick Saryn into either mode, neither mode particularly cares about optimizing wide-range fodder melting, rather moving fast, surviving well, and killing small bunches of enemies/single targets really well. much rather just pick a fast tanky frame with a good weapon+roar into those.

[@MrHephesto]

​@@Malurth Thank you for answering! knew I was missing something :)

[@bob911yt2]

dear god is this a master class, its over a hour.😧

[@Malurth]

well it would probably be under an hour if I didn't ramble so much 😅 but yeah I tried to be thorough :3

[@vasilivanov3713]

nice one. although the point of the video "dont subsume over miasma, use it. weapon builds are kinda meh" was ruined for me when you didnt show the kpm with sobek

[@Malurth]

yeh, figured it would be misleading since half if not more of those kills were from spore death anyway. but in retrospect there is a stat for weapon kills isn't there. derp

[@theleoshowm3010]

This is a great video but you often act like there is a "right" way of playing the game and you decline counter arguments by just saying its stupid which isn't very good/productive.

[@joeybisson2684]

I understand that I'm building saryn wrong... counterpoint... I like seeing my kuva ogris proc 10 different elements... Is funny to me.

[@Malurth]

can't argue with that

[@badboys5612]

I pretty much agree with everything, and god I really do not see a use for Molt other than putting it on, other frames. But the only gripe I have is the sobek test being pretty disingenuous since those builds generally also use venom dose which in and of itself provide armor strip, + the spore spread for stripping OTHER enemies. But I do prefer running spore miasma over the weapon build either way.

[@Malurth]

sobek really does not work with Venom Dose, I've tried it. it gets very few corrosive procs, takes like a whole mag to strip your primary target and it doesn't spread at all. there's a melee influence jat kittag build that applies enough corrosive with venom dose in an AoE with Melee Influence, granted, but I wasn't trying to demo every weapon build variant :3 edit: I now know Venom Dose counts as an increase to toxin damage and thus increases the Toxin DoT, so it's worth running. if you want to see a better test peep my kuva sobek vid, I use venom dose and an updated build

[@KingClickMusic]

@@Malurth If you tried it with the build in your video, it makes sense why it “didn’t work”. This really seems like Redditors who will denounce any frame/build template because they built it wrong.

[@Malurth]

@@KingClickMusic another person denouncing my build without posting their own...anyway I addressed this complaint in my Kuva Sobek vid

[@corn_enthusiast]

Hello Mister!!! Are the two corrosive shards still required or do the recent armor changes warrant the use of one singular tauforged shard? Kind regards!!!

[@Malurth]

2x shards still slightly outdamages 2x tau shards, 1 for +3 stacks and the other for +15% ability damage, assuming you are fighting fully armored enemies. if not, 2x tau comes out ahead. I stuck with 2x normals cuz it's cheaper and often still more powerful.

[@wazuba8015]

guy says he will demonstrate saryn wpns platform sobek build, then proceeds to showcase with wrong build XD

[@Malurth]

whats the build then

[@shyguy4617]

Suppose to be xata whisper as your 4 due to how it interacts with toxic lash

[@regmaa]

jade shadows reworked health scaling of the factions. grineer had their EHP rebalanced into their red health instead of their armor, meaning armor stipping from spores is almost unnecessary. the infested scales many times faster and higher than before. corpus arent worth mentioning since their shields can be bypassed with toxin. an acid shells build which scales off of max health performs the same as before, but does the spore build still work like you show?

[@Malurth]

the EHP buff was not that pronounced, and full strip is still worth building for.

[@SuedDuke]

Just a note on weapon builds at least in my opinion I think weapon builds can be good if you just want to mess around with a weapon like often I like messing around with the trummna so I'll run a weapons platform so I can just use the gun rather than having to always be cycling through abilities

[@TobyLerone76]

He said they can work lol, anyone can play anything bruh

[@santaslayer5810]

really sick video i was looking for a spammy saryn build and this is perfect, but the thing is i dont have steel path unlocked and i dont know the capabilities of the build so do you think you would be able to hold out in endless that are hours long like void cascade cuz you melted everyone from 0-5 minutes?

[@Malurth]

saryn is not a great pick for void cascade. the shield gate build scales to level cap, but you have to actually be on Saryn the whole time; if you're constantly being forced into operator she's gonna have a bad time. gloom build would work better, but it doesn't scale to level cap. void cascade emphasizes movement speed, foolproof survivability, and the ability to quickly dispatch certain high-value targets. saryn doesn't really excel at any of those.

[@santaslayer5810]

@@Malurth do you have any recommendations for void cascade level cap?

[@Malurth]

@@santaslayer5810 I usually roll revenant or valkyr these days (see also my most recent vid on how to build valk). foolproof survivability is the chief concern, followed by being able to quickly kill thrax, followed by movespeed. valk/rev are basically untouchable unless they run into a nullifier, they can kill thrax easily with a terrify/pillage subsume (roar+slash works for rev too), and both can be quite fast (valk slide attacks, rev reave/dagger slide attacks).

[@hipposapien5434]

fking awesome video, ima go build that saryn i got. btw, is there a reason that you cant just run a shield gate build with the gloom setup? It seems like you're spamming miasma anyway for energy. with catalysing shields, rolling guard and a few augur mods it seems doable?

[@Malurth]

thanks! and the gloom build runs 175% efficiency, it's not going to be very good at shield gating, plus you'd have to remove umbrals and make it bad at health tanking to do that. I am happy with my tiny shield regen from Augur Reach + the 95% slow that's already on the build. it doesn't make much sense to me to layer 2 entirely different forms of defense on each other like that (the gloom lifesteal gets kind of wasted when you start building around not letting enemies touch your health bar), but I suppose if you could make it work it could then also handle level cap content while retaining the comfy 95% slow. though you'd also lose strength from losing umbral mods so reaching that breakpoint would be harder too...anyway yeah never put much thought into it cuz if I ever want to do level cap Saryn I'm happy to just switch to my Nourish build.

[@SenjaiYT]

Update the wiki if you know its wrong man

[@Malurth]

it was so detailed tho. presumably it has to have some basis in reality lol. didn't feel comfortable just deleting all that but yea I update the wiki from time to time with fixes/additions

[@vvoudheusden]

Gotta say it does surprise me how viable miasma spam is in steel path levels, kudo's for that. One small question I did wanna mention is the sobek saryn combo is rather old. Even the video I found a while ago (by CoolKid369) is 1 year old and it was super niche. My question is how does this compare to melee influence dual ichor (with incarnon), kuva ogris with nightwatch napalm and Tenet Flux Rifle with Combustion beam (on corpus specifically). Also how does your build do against corpus since in my experience infested and corpus absolutely suck for saryn.

[@Malurth]

haven't tried the ogris or flux rifle strats, but I similarly dropped using melee influence dual ichor because my spores were outpacing them anyway and I'd rather just have the Praedos parkour speed buff. for reasons described in the vid (it starts becoming quite difficult to even *see* enemies with good spores going, much less hit them with weapons), I can pretty safely assume it outpaces those strats as well. never had any troubles with corpus, strong spores are still strong oh also sobek is definitely one of the premiere weapon strats on Saryn. for example here's an excellent vid published just 2 weeks ago by kyaii that goes into great detail: kzbin.info/www/bejne/e2ilnqiCd9hjmsU (ofc I disagree about the conclusion that it's her best build but still)

[@Huh-0.1]

Late april fools vid ainoway

[@bigf0ot25]

Nah caster saryn is plainly better than weapons saryn. I helminthed breech surge over lash but basically the same as the gloom build otherwise. Get strength buffs, cast spores, miasma and breech surge if enemies get close/molt and voila, 200kpm

[@Ave-Satanas]

What's your build bud?

[@Huh-0.1]

@@Ave-Satanas peak one

[@Ave-Satanas]

@@Huh-0.1 x

[@iamdeadicate4480]

​@@Ave-Satanasthe build kyaii made

[@godofreptiles2311]

Hi I got a quick question for the health tank build. What is the grimoire build I may be blind but I couldn't find it while watching the video. Thanks!

[@Malurth]

hmm...I think you might be right, I don't think I ever showed it lol. derp. here's the build I'm using: i.imgur.com/aiC4usN.jpeg obviously does not optimize for damage at all, just pure utility

[@godofreptiles2311]

@@Malurth Thanks I appreciate it!

[@jacobe9984]

I’ll preference this by saying your builds do look good and have high kpm but downplayed weapons platform builds imo. They can also have high kpm setups but no they can’t spread spores for 56m, as I’ve seen you point out, that’s not their strength or goal. I especially think your downplaying the kuva sobek I was absolutely steam rolling through the map earlier granted with comically long pauses to reload but my point is, it works exceptionally well and is fun. Plus my lizard brain see bigg number get big happy and weapon platform saryn will do that

[@jacobe9984]

Don’t mistake me for any of these other ppl who seem to just be hating on ur setup but i did see comments that I resonated with. I can walk into a room of corrupted heavy gunners or eximus corpus and damn near 1 shot delete the whole room but I’m not as much of a dick as he sounded. I just want to advocate the full capability of wep platform build same as u want to advocate ur build. I feel like most people here are just building wrong that’s why they’re disappointed in their kuva sobek performance but if theirs was doing what mine is no way they can be disappointed at that. Just walk into a room find the biggest guy, drop ur nuts on him and everyone is dead. And also I say u say that u didn’t show kpm of gun build bc spores did half of the killing but even if they did actually do half of the killing that’s still a vital part of the saryn build. Your not subsuming over spores so it’s still part of her kit that you will be using so I don’t understand why those kills wouldn’t count

[@Malurth]

well, what is their strength/goal, then? from my point of view Saryn is a middling weapons platform, but is also the best AoE fodder killer in the game when built for that. so you should build her for her unique strength, of course. I mean sure sobek saryn is kind of fun I guess (and as I always say I'm not the fun police, do whatever floats your boat), but it seems to me that in 99/100 scenarios it just performs much worse than either picking a better weapons platform frame or building for spore DPS. edit: oh just noticed you had a follow-up comment too. admittedly my build in this vid wasn't the best but I rectified that in my Kuva Sobek vid and it still felt quite underwhelming to me. mind sharing footage of what you mean? cuz outside of simulacrum demos even in other content creator vids I've never seen anything particularly impressive. that's part of why I made my own demo here, to demonstrate my experience with it. as for the kills part because the point is to show off how weapons platform saryn performs, if the spores are killing enemies first that's just more evidence that you probably don't need to be shooting them in the first place; the more that die to spores instead of the weapon, the worse a look it is for the weapon. but the end game screen doesn't separate those kills so it's kind of not worth showing the mix. I probably should have anyway tho in retrospect

[@jacobe9984]

⁠@@Malurth the strength of the weapons platform saryn build is to dps not nuke fodder, not saying weapons platform doesn’t have high kpm it’s just not an ability nuke like ur showcase. It does more than kill fodder. It’s more versatile than spore dps imo bc of the mission types it’s useful in. Examples: cascade, disruption, netracells. Platform saryn excels in all of those but not just while ur build would fall off in comparison. And I’m my experience there aren’t any other weapons platforms that are better than saryn unless it’s a very specific Warframe/wep synergy. Please give me examples that are better than saryn. I understand where ur coming from on the spore killing more than wep but in a dedicated weapons platform experience ur weapon will be doing majority of the killing. But I believe my main point still stands, spores are still an essential part of the build, weapons platform or not that’s why I think it should also be counted And abt that video that’s up in the air as of right now idk if I’ll do that Edit: just to clarify the difference to me between dps and nuke is that I’ll deal a lot of damage in an smaller aoe than let’s say an explosive legerdemain mirage who can nuke a while eso til set. Even if ur raw kpm Is higher I kill more than just fodder like, demons, eximus, thrax, acolytes, etc while also having high kpm

[@Spacolot]

These are very good builds, but i would like to say there are no wrong builds for saryn whether you want to go for weapons platform or spore or a hybrid build its all just playstyle preference, i do appreciate on calling out peoples takes on taking off miasma. Crazy takes honestly i think doing that is like taking off valkyrs 4th and saying this is how you play valkyr💀💀 but yeah great in depth video

[@Ace4573]

Saryn's kit is S-tier with or without augments

[@lightningpo26]

Love the video. Very detailed. Just felt like there was some unnecessary waffle, which could be avoided with scriptnof sorts.

[@Malurth]

yeh sorry if I scripted it I would have never finished lol, too much info to cover see also my one scripted vid that wound up being 6+ hours and took me 6 months to make 😂

[@lightningpo26]

@@Malurth haha I get it. There's just waaay to much to cover. Nonetheless, love the video! Can't wait to see similar content with other frames.

[@celeste6603]

So I’m curious the new patched dropped with elementalist mods and with doing so those mods in turn buff toxic lash because it’s considered weapon damage I’ve been using a weapon Saryn build that u literally can use any weapon you want and make it viable in steel path if you build it for blast and have primary blight and it works really well on any content in the game(boss killing, nuking, disruptions, cascade) and I just wanted to know if there would be any reason to switch my build to yours to focus on just nuking because your build is better for nuking but where would I need to kill that many enemies let alone through walls when I can just blow up everything in front of me with no thought and while also playing any weapon I want

[@Malurth]

imo there's just no point to weapon builds on Saryn when other frames can do weapon platform better, and an appropriately good weapon will give you good results regardless. if you're satisfied with your loadout don't let me stop you, but if I were going to use a frame as a weapons platform there are many other frames I'd pick over Saryn. in my eyes, Saryn's actual unique strength is sheer AoE KPS on fodder. granted there's not many modes in the game that emphasize that strength; best is probably just survival to get more enemy loot, but even then if you're going solo Nekros would likely be a stronger pick. I also pick her for low-level exterminates/defense but both of those are anti-ramp so she relies on Miasma spam clears for those, which falls off in higher levels where you need the spore damage. but that's just a solution looking for a problem kind of issue. if they ever dropped a mode that was like "survival but with a kill count objective instead of a timer" then she'd be an MVP of that mode.

[@danielzavala3746]

@@Malurth What frames do you use for weapon platform?

[@gigginoxalpha5703]

Toxic lash, and weapons with blast, thank me later.

[@THICKGURLUVA]

First off I love the vid and the fact that you took the time to put all of this together. I know it's very time consuming. 2nd I have to disagree with most of what you said about the sobek. Simply because I use it only with saryn and I'll clear entire room!! My only real issue with it is the fact that it's not a really strong weapon at its base. If I use roar or xatas whisper along with saryns 3rd ability, and I'm using my 3rd config (which does 5 different statuses) it's a monster. I just need to find a build that increases it's damage output as a whole... Lol. However normally I use the ogris (Kuva vers) with xatas whisper and her 3rd ability. And the enemies don't really stand a chance.

[@Malurth]

yeah, like...a really tiny room lol. and I don't need to clear all the enemies in a room if they tend to die before they even make it there lol. until I see some footage of someone wielding Sobek Saryn to greater effect than what I demonstrated here, I'm still team spore DPS. thanks for the praise and feedback, tho :)

[@THICKGURLUVA]

@@Malurth lol... Oh I definitely use the spores in conjunction with everything else. That's why when u demonstrated the sobek and it didn't operate the way I've seen, I was surprised. Granted I'm not running steel path with it, because like I said it's not power heavy. But regular murmur missions or survival missions? Yeah still clearing rooms regularly. I do have a question though. Being someone that also uses gloom, have you noticed that gloom seems to cause the spores to spread even before the enemies have died?? Or am I just seeing a mechanic working that I'm unaware of? Because I don't see it spread the same way normally.

[@Malurth]

@@THICKGURLUVA well ofc it's gonna perform better in non-steel path, lol. but at that point miasma will just delete the map so kind of even more in her favor there. as for gloom, no, I am quite certain it doesn't modify the spore spread mechanics in any way. whenever I see an unexpected spore spread I just assume a miasma sick enemy died somewhere.

[@gryffent]

A script, dear lord you need a script. You know what you want to touch on but I found you all over the place and it just became repetitive and not helpful. With a key points card in front of you and not reexplaining multiple times why you don’t think weapons builds are good, I think you could have made a 20 min video that would have been more watchable.

[@Malurth]

noted, thx 😓

[@thebrigade7684]

you know what you did convince me rofl

[@ShunkBear]

Hello, nice video. What do you think of breach surge on Saryn? It had a layer of survivability and damage, and I use catalysing shield to shield gate with it. It's true that nourrish give the positiblity to equip blind rage but you are a slave to zenurik and I don't like this. So wanted your thought on why you chose nourrish instead of others subsumes. Subscribed.

[@Malurth]

imo there's not really room for Catalyzing Shields + lack of nourish energy regen on the build. I use Nourish cuz it costs a ton of energy to spam Miasma, requiring either a high efficiency build (as I use with Gloom), or extreme energy regen (high-str Nourish + Zenurik + Xata grimoire). with Blind Rage this also makes the shield you get from Miasma much larger, removing the need for Catalyzing Shields. I've tried Breach Surge before on her and it is a fairly solid pick, both amplifying her damage output and protecting her well, but I feel the opportunity cost is ultimately too great for me to use. imo shield gates (and enemies around me rapidly dying) provide all the protection I need, and high-str spammed Miasmas provide better offense than the occasional Breach Surge would. and I'd feel totally energy starved. if you really like it then go for it, but I prefer not to :^) thank for the sub btw 😊

[@Natboy23]

and then theres me who doesnt use miasma or spores other than for corrosive dmg

[@XcrazymanIII]

Theres no bad build on saryn but yeah u cannot mix both spores and gun buffs its meh at best for disruption lvl cap run w spores and gloom ok the sobek would help a lot to drop keys faster but its optional this build for demo kill isnt great simply because theres not enough duration for the buffsand its too situational to always shoot the alt fire of grimoire then madurai 2 then void sling, helminth over miasma or molt is build dependant if u go weapon platform ok fine u need molts speed buf to get to demos faster and stuff , both on the side if u use a spore build u want to helminth over molt because u will need miasma to deal more damage

[@mikeroscowe654]

Reading over the comments im ashamed of our playerbase. I finally decided to grab saryn prime couple weeks back after playing a multitude of other primes i was going through for MR (was an excal main for a long time. As guns always were crap when i used them. Phantasma orime does melt stuff but i cant aim for shit an was getting annoyed running after enemies while other players stood in one spot nuking maps. I want to kilk stuff too!) First week with her, abysmal. Didnt understand her kit, survivability sucked for me, decided to bench her after all the weapon platform builds (and melee influence) i tried. Spent a week playing volt/innodem knightmareframe build was fun as hell. Found your vid last night at work. After work i dusted off my saryn, gathered the missing mods (mostly the stupid book) subsumed sevagoth this morning. And now.... wow what a killing machine. 😳 the revealing spores mod = amazing. Single handedly the best mod on saryn. Weapons? Who gives a shit about weapons! Really informative video, lots of information, maybe a lot of rambling? But i dont care. For stupid people like me i learnt a lot from this vid not just about saryn (actually reading the setups ect). Just need to craft this stupid praedos for the sprint boost and 1 more archon emerald an im gucci Ignore the haters brother. You made saryn proud. Glhf tenno :)

[@Moley1Moleo]

With the recent changes to enemy armour, does that reinforce or mitigate the necessity to get 100% armor strip?

[@felix_patriot]

A slight correction- the first enemy you cast spores onto, *will* spread spores even if they die to spore damage. This is because casting your first ability onto them does two things, 1. it puts spores onto them, and 2. it also marks them permanently as a "patient zero". A patient zero spreads spores in the spore radius upon death. Enemies in the spore spread radius (when popping them, toxic lash'ing them, or on patient zero death) receive the spores, but are not considered patient zeros. The true strength of Miasma, is that *all enemies affected by it are marked as patient zeros for the duration of the abilities' debuff,* even if they only received spores from a spread effect and not the initial ability cast, which like you say, allows them to spread spores even if they die to spore damage, as long as it is in the Miasma duration.

[@Malurth]

not really sure how that's a slight correction, since that was my understanding as well, and is identical to what I conveyed in the video. unless you mean the distinction of referring to Miasma-infected enemies as patient zero, in which case nah that doesn't make much sense, ofc "patient zero" refers to the first spored enemy. just means there's 2 conditions for spore damage killing a target still spreading spores, either being patient zero or being Miasma-sick.

[@felix_patriot]

@@Malurth the correction was in the first sentence- you said something along the lines of "enemies who die to spore damage don't spread spores" without clarifying that the first enemy that you cast them onto does, and i didnt notice that at any other point in the video. everything else after that was an expansion on why that is mechanically.

[@Malurth]

I clarified that right away at 3:50 :p

[@JetWa298]

SO with the recent armor changes. would you use shards for extra armor strip or pure corrosive boost?

[@Malurth]

you still want at least 1 tau for 13 stack, the question is 13 or 14 stack? and the answer is 14 stack still does more dmg than 13 stack + another ability green against fully armored enemies, but only by a little and only against full armor. so basically it's a sidegrade, you can take your pick.

[@Maikolski]

Nice video, and I too think that she is overrated as weapon platform. Sure you can use nourish, toxic lash and venom overdose on her but your weapons aren't killing the enemies then your abilities are, the weapons are just the transportation method at this point. When I want to play a weapon platform I use Harrow, he actually buffs the weapon with fire rate, reload speed and crit chance, using Hildryn's Subsume as first skill and he even does all of that better while armor stripping and still does not change the whole function of a weapon in the process. Gauss, Zephyr, Yareli, Rhino and Xaku to name just the ones at the top of my head can do similar things. But to get back to Saryn when you are at the point at which you use your weapon as transportation method to spread your abilities why not simply don't use a weapon but a range mod and weapons that enhance HER gameplay, there are so many frames that could work as simple weapon platform, it almost feels like a waste especially when you have to resort to shield gating to play and survive with her. If you have to use shield gating to keep a caster alive then just cast, instead of shoot. 😂 Reducing all the cool frames we have in the game to simple weapon platforms is kinda sad also quite lore-breaking, pretty sure Saryn wasn't created to hold a shotgun, anyone could do that. Harrow on the other hand is a master of arms his idle animation even shows that, he was made to hold a gun!

[@marcelomarca7185]

What about the weapon build using ocucor in disruption missions?

[@Malurth]

I mean, it works fine. not the fastest or safest disruption build tho

[@Kei-qf9rw]

if i dont run missions that allow me to ramp up spores (using your nourish build), like archon hunts, or boss hunts in general, how would you recommend i deal with them?

[@Malurth]

well frankly I wouldn't really pick Saryn for boss hunt kind of missions. she excels at wide-range fodder melting, not boss killing. but for shorter more finite missions like Exterminate, she actually usually ramps fast enough that she's still a solid pick into those. swapping to a Roar shieldgate build for more up-front damage is likely fruitful in that case.

[@Kei-qf9rw]

@@Malurth gotcha, thanks

[@XSoulgamez]

Glad he through in “if there was a third slot here” they should definitely do that , just like on zaws all weapons should be able to apply 2 , while frames 3

[@ozzieosawamick1712]

I'll show you rain dance white boy

[@Malurth]

🥵

[@Cosmic2-fc4np]

Amazing build! Non Level cap viable tho.

[@Malurth]

the shieldgate one is

[@Huh-0.1]

@@Malurth looking at your saryn xp u didnt even do lvl cap with it so how do you know it is lvl cap viable?

[@Malurth]

@@Huh-0.1 shieldgate scales defensively to any level, spore scaling + full armor strip scales offensively to any level

[@Huh-0.1]

@@Malurth funny that u making a saryn guide and dont even know spores have a cap. Have a nice one.

[@Malurth]

@@Huh-0.1 ah yes, the mythical damage cap not documented or proven anywhere. you as well

[@Sunrise-l4b]

weapon saryn > spore miasma saryn

[@Malurth]

nuh uh

[@AuraXars]

For gloom: you mentioned most energy regen don't work, does book regen/s still work for some reason?

[@Malurth]

alas, no. all energy/s sources don't work while gloom is slowing anyone, sadly.

[@Ianz-ks5re]

for youre SG nourish build what are you using to proc archon stretch

[@Malurth]

companions (prob sentinel) is the only possible source. wasn't active during the vid cuz I was using Smeeta but sentinels like Dethcube (via Manifold Bond Vaporize) or Diriga will do the trick

[@Ianz-ks5re]

@@Malurth thought so, thanks for the response, great video

[@brandonmorales1764]

Your SG nourish build doesn’t fully replenish shields?

[@Malurth]

yeh, doesn't need to imo. 220 shields from 1 miasma cast is still a healthy 1.07s shield gate

[@brandonmorales1764]

Yeah I guess hey have you tested 15% and below duration causes miasma to last indefinitely?

[@Malurth]

@@brandonmorales1764 idk why that would make your miasma last indefinitely. does seem practical for getting more miasma stuns off; as I mention at one point, enemies don't get stunned if they're still Miasma-sick when they get hit with another one. if you tank your duration so Miasma sickness expires very quickly, you can get a lot more stuns, theoretically.

[@brandonmorales1764]

What I’m saying is when Saryn has 15% and below duration Miasma sickness will last indefinitely after one cast. Test it in the simulacrum its pretty interesting. Apply spores manually to exactly one of them. Kill that enemy. The spores should spread to all 4 other enemies. Cast Miasma (should be

[@marcorudlinger2680]

1h 17min noch länger gings wohl nicht 😅

[@SamThaGawd]

Do you think the archon shards for extra stacks are worth using now that partial strip is more useful?

[@Malurth]

definitely. an 80% strip still leaves a 2700 armor enemy with 540 still; pre-armor rework enemies only needed 300 armor to get 50% DR; devs didn't specify the new formula so maybe 540 is only like 40% DR now, but that's still sizeable enough that it would be worth removing (going from 90% DR to 40% would be like 6x damage, going from dealing 10% to 60%). the real question now is 1 tauforged for 13 stacks or stick with 2 normals for 14 stacks? 98% strip from 13 stack leaves a 2700 armor enemy with just 54 armor (conveniently, the difference between 10-stack corro and 13-stack is always a 10x reduction in remaining armor). under the old formula that would leave enemies with 15.25% DR, making it still worth to keep 14-stack, just barely (i'd use the saved shard slot for another ability damage% shard probably, and that would do less damage than removing the DR). but idk what the new DR is under the new formula, I gotta do some testing first. if it's more like enemies are left with 5% DR then yea it's 13-stack time.

[@SamThaGawd]

Thanks for the info I appreciate it a lot. If you run those tests, would you please let us all in on the conclusions you come to.

[@Malurth]

here ya go: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qoiuZaxmpb6UrNk put a 13-stack vs 14-stack Saryn section at the end there...at risk of depriving myself a click, it's close, but I'd still stick to 14 stacks personally

[@SamThaGawd]

Wow you’re the goat. Thanks for putting in the effort and creating the content.

[@godslayer4047]

I suggest you watch gazttvs 5x emerald tau shard saryn video to see sobeks potential

[@Malurth]

watched. conclusion: it is a higher damage version of the build demonstrated here or in my more recent Kuva Sobek vid (ofc I didn't 5x toxin taus), but doesn't do anything to address the main concerns I have against the build, namely: - Acid shells chaining explosion is nice but still covers far less area than miasma - Still requires high armor enemies to be spored+stripped to work (and at that point why not just let the spores kill them) like even if Acid Shells did an instant kill on all spored enemies, it would only be a solid primary option for a spore DPS build. the chaining effect just doesn't reach far enough to compete with Miasma. yes if enemies are all perfectly lined up it can even chain into other rooms, but that scenario is both fleetingly rare, and *still* not as wide range as Miasma. yes Miasma 'slowly' melts enemies compared to Sobek's very fast melt, but the sheer area covered by Miasma more than makes up for it (not to mention the free stun + viral procs). Most enemies wind up dead before they even get into Sobek range, and those that remain, can be killed with any good weapon in the game.

[@godslayer4047]

Appreciate your time and effort answering peoples feedback. It would be better if you could do more in depth dives regarding other warframes as well to showcase different builds may it be popular or underrated and bring them to light to show different playstyles for each warframe.

[@Malurth]

thx! I certainly intend to keep it up with other frames as well :p

[@Ravngor]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/np2xoGaah6-abNE op gun saryn build, maybe at the very least, an alternative saryn for when u can't ramp up spores? 😄 💜‼

[@Ravngor]

Very informative on Saryn's spore/miasma intricate details‼

[@Malurth]

lol my recent kuva sobek vid directly uses that build to prove that it's still kinda meh compared to spores :p

[@GT-legendary]

1:13:25 lmao bro just made the whole thing awkward for yourself

[@jules3431]

How come you didnt mention shooting gallery? shouldnt this be able to get you through lvl 9999 enemys vs. gloom you just get easily one hit?

[@Malurth]

shooting gallery (w/ augment) no longer blinds eximus, it wouldn't save you at level cap. for level cap I use my shield gate build, which can also survive to cap but comes with the bonus of nourish energy regen and not needing the gallery augment. gloom is more for non-endurance content, in which case it's extremely powerful.

[@jules3431]

@@Malurth ah ok didnt know that. thanks!

[@darkhummy]

Have fun doing that awful buff rotation every ~20 seconds

[@Malurth]

what awful buff rotation lol spore strength snapshots so you never have to buff again. only thing like that is the Xata's energy proc for the nourish build (and nourish itself ig) and that's both optional and fairly trivial.

[@darkteam2473]

30:20 17 april, 17 days jet lag for 1 april jokes. U've setup ur saryn for spore, not for buffer. I have 2x time more power and the augment of skill 1. Spore, instant shot and all the room instant dies... Why I'm able to one shot the entire room of EXIMUS heavy gunners same level with 1 bullet in body (so no galvanized charged) with 0 forma ??? And without roar... I've also tried against level 1000 ennemies in disruption and it works perfectly... But if you feel smarter... Ho, good luck against eximus corpus. U're not modding ur sobek well, not modding ur saryn well, maybe it's time to questionning urself. Yes ur build is an "outsider" build but sobek scales and instant kill all. However, meta content isn't survival mission. In disruption, cascade, arbitration, ... this spore build is completly invalid / drasticaly increase time spent. The only counter urguement is : the game is too easy for the build so there is no continious spread

[@Malurth]

rude - I showcase a better sobek build in my Kuva Sobek vid...it's still underwhelming :^) - my builds focus on maximizing Saryn's key selling point, her wide-range AoE fodder melting ability. yes, that is not particularly desired/useful in a lot of 'meta content.' no, that doesn't mean you should abandon that build direction. if a frame's strengths don't match up with a given game mode, just pick a different frame into those game modes. - eximus corpus still inevitably die. and you can always just shoot your gun for those instances you run into a beefy enemy, no need for sobek build-around bullshit. - sobek only wipes rooms if enemies conveniently all space themselves out so they chain nicely. this often doesn't occur, making it more adept at blowing up little clusters of enemies. in which case, again, any half-decent weapon will do too. and when it does occur, it's still only a fraction of the range you get from miasma + spore spread. I don't need to wipe enemies in this room if they all died before making it there.

[@strix460]

Me thinks saryn is a little over hyped spores are her coolest ability and it seems like such a pain in the ass to make it work

[@RobertoCorsini]

Slot in Archon Stretch instead of regular one and let Diriga Arc Coil give you energy?

[@Malurth]

yup, that certainly improves the energy economy on the Nourish/shieldgate build. you'll notice Archon Stretch is already on there! just didn't make use of it to demonstrate it still works fine without alas, does not help for the gloom build since gloom disables all forms of energy regen over time

[@Ave-Satanas]

What is your boar build?

[@Malurth]

it's kind of a meme build but here you go: i.imgur.com/Ngz39ja.jpeg riven: i.imgur.com/Bh7rIWg.jpg not-meme version for maximizing heat procs: i.imgur.com/sIbYtWG.jpg evos Fortress Salvo, Ready Retaliation (or Practiced Grip), Elemental Balance

[@ccadet3651]

Really? a fucking hour. Who has time to stay here for an hour theres not that much info about a character thats I need that much to listen for an hour

[@Malurth]

haha that's why I made sure to add timestamps. feel free to skip around to the points that interest you

[@janovmi2]

both you and the other KZbinrs are wrong; players are not supposed to build Saryn as a weapon platform OR spore spammer in the same way, as noone should build Mirage as a weapon platform OR prism nuke you are always supposed to build both at the same time, one supporting the other, this way you get the strongest build possible, that utilizes most of the abilities i will just add that people usually go for the weapon build because of subsume options, outside of something like rage (which can be dangerous) there is no way to buff spores with subsume, you can go for utility like gloom but that can be used on both weapon and/or spore build, and since toxic lash exists it allows some unique interactions with some weapons that can be fun to use are weapon builds better than spores ? NO are weapon builds worse than spores ? NO Play Saryn the way you like, bring her to some EZ steel path missions for testing and adapt, and don't follow others builds blindly also your build demos are as disingenuous as possible, using absolutely suboptimal companions (and i guess build too) just to prove your points, where is the comparison of kills/min that you so purposefully didnt show ? have you ever considered that people like action instead of sitting when the map is frozen with gloom, if I liked to sit on my ass I would go play Octavia change your tone from insulting everyone who dosnt play a frame the way you do, you will never build following on hate, share your points with others sure, but dont disrespect others just because you have different opinion

[@Malurth]

> you are always supposed to build both at the same time, one supporting the other, this way you get the strongest build possible, that utilizes most of the abilities that's how you get the most compromised half-ass builds that are only so-so at either thing, rather than being good at the one thing that's important to you. > also your build demos are as disingenuous as possible, using absolutely suboptimal companions (and i guess build too) just to prove your points, where is the comparison of kills/min that you so purposefully didnt show ? no actually, I used the best I knew to do. and I improved it for another go in my kuva sobek vid too. name your optimal build and I'll use that. and as I've explained countless times now the game doesn't show ability kills vs. weapon kills, and every ability kill is literally an argument against weapon builds, so the number was fairly meaningless without that info. I should have shown it anyway in retrospect because it would have been equally meaningless to show it, and doing so would have prevented a lot of whining. > have you ever considered that people like action instead of sitting when the map is frozen with gloom, if I liked to sit on my ass I would go play Octavia nonsensical, you have to be very active just to maintain your spore spread. gloom is just a powerful defensive option. it actually encourages movement, if anything, since slow enemies can't get to you quickly (it's the opposite of a speedva, which enables people to sit in one place because all the enemies quickly run to them). you have to seek them out yourself. > change your tone from insulting everyone who dosnt play a frame the way you do, you will never build following on hate, share your points with others sure, but dont disrespect others just because you have different opinion actually plenty of people build a following on hate, it seems like a pretty tried and true method lol. but I'm not doing that anyway, I'm just being snarky/blunt because I'm surrounded by people championing builds I think are bad. I can disrespect builds all I want.

[@Maljinn]

How would you adjust the Gloom build if you don't have arcane energize?

[@Malurth]

ngl it's pretty necessary. only other good way of getting energy mid-gloom is Equilib, and there's already a huge shortage of mod slots in the build. if you have the seismic tech set up you could drop Augur Reach for it, but that's pretty yikes. max rank energize is not necessary tho, a low/mid rank would probably suffice. there's also the old school tech of using a Synoid Gammacor to get occasional energy bursts, which can help with energy econ, but that's also pretty iffy, especially since it makes you drop the Grimoire. could also use the supra vandal w/ Entropy Burst or something tho. if you don't have the resources for it the shieldgate build is a lot cheaper, fwiw. no Energize on that build

[@seanhand446]

O dislike it strongly when people remove an ability and add someone else's. It is like they are disrespecting the frame and the device work. Like at that point they are just playing 75% of the frame. Where there is me, making it work rather than helminth.

[@Malurth]

conversely, I dislike it strongly when people refuse to use Helminth. it's just literally how the game works, it's like refusing to use mods to me

[@Ave-Satanas]

It was extremely refreshing to see an educated and experienced take on Saryn.

[@Huh-0.1]

paid comment...

[@noahedenborg4221]

ight so ur are bad this is jsut bad spores have line of sight EXECPT for the first spore also weapon builds good as a misconception dude what are you stuck in 2015 ability dmg saryn isnt as a good as wepaon saryn a lot higher kpm also molt is amazing esspecially for shield gate because its an instant cast oh yeah u also built ur sobek wrong

[@Malurth]

- nope, spores never have LoS requirement. just double checked in the simulacrum just now, even non-primary target spore spreads work through walls - how can a weapon build be better when spores can (very quickly) ramp to the point that even establishing line of sight with enemies becomes difficult? no weapon is that good - already mentioned that exact thing about molt in the vid, as well as it not being enough to save it from helminth on saryn - already cooking a new sobek demo vid to silence the build haters, stay tuned

[@noahedenborg4221]

@@Malurth just know these weren't my points Also why revealing spores when u can just look at the dmg numbers

[@Malurth]

cuz that is a vastly inferior method of grokking how your spores are being spread. it only gives you a vague idea while requiring you to actually frame the enemies you're checking for in the screen's viewport. also +40 enemy radar is snazzy

[@noahedenborg4221]

@@Malurth bruh just look on ur screen and u will know where enemy's are

[@Malurth]

oh, silly me, I forgot to look at my screen! you're a clown lol