You're Punching Wrong

[@glennstuart6986]

Hey Sifu, as always thanks for having the courage to speak truth.

[@moodyprime6818]

Idk how I missed this video a day late . Amazing information as always Sifu

[@JKDandWingChun]

A day late??? You’re slipping, dude. Lol.

[@antimatter9489]

Really great breakdown. Especially the idea that when men had to fight bare knuckle in history and their survival is at steak, they used the bottom three knuckle approach. Reality is the best test for what works, not sparring or sports.

[@MorganTay]

I recommend you respond to Fight Tips’s video about he punches. He uses two knuckle punches but with an aligned fist which has been effective for me.

[@AK_UK_]

This video was short, detailed and to the point. Everywhere I go I'm told to do the top 2 knuckle landing. However, when it comes to practice, they mostly hit with the bottom 3 knuckles themselves! I find horizontal punching awkward unless I'm punching from far away. Close up vertical punching, the fist at diagonal clockwise, just seems so much more comfortable.

[@flavioaleph]

Horizontal punches are not only for longer distances. Are also about chest of abdomen targets.

[@Tredoslop]

Yes! I remember being taught by instructors or hearing how it’s the first two knuckles, but that never made sense to me. It was always ergonomically awkward. However, I did learn the verticals Wing-Chun punch from a friend. He pointed out that the bottom three have better bone alignment. Finally, I read part of a book by legendary boxer Jack Dempsey and he advocated, I believe, for the bottom three as well. Glad to see it being promoted!

[@lachycummings3765]

I like your vids, but unfortunately this one is quite off the mark. Boxers don't hit with the front finger joints like you suggest in this video. Boxer angle the wrists downwards slightly, making the top of the hand inline with the forearm, and therefore landing the knuckles/flat part of the first with their punch.

[@oconnormcgee2549]

Your right love it

[@popsharrison5431]

So troo Sifoo. Since the late 80s & earlier, I never even used bag gloves; maybe wrist wraps. I use bag gloves on occasion; the old skool ones that are thin; like mittens. 3 knuckles, alignment, timing, placement...all essential. ✌️ I sometimes practice hitting the flat steel support beams in our corridors at work; not too hard of course, cuz steel wins everytime 😉

[@andrewdevitt9380]

Knuckle conditioning is a must . Along with wrist and forearm strength exercises. Also, palm shots are very underrated, which in turn will not injure your hands. For example , strike a wall full force with your knuckles - very stupid idea, of to the hospital you go. But do the same strike with your palm heel - maybe a bit of discolouration on the palm. Big difference there. The palm heel is a very effective weapon up close . People do not understand the power in that strike . Plus throughout history where taught to fight with our fists, and because of that the palm strike feels very unnatural . But it definitely has a place in someone's arsenal if self defence is taking seriously.

[@ronobvious1785]

Back in the winter I did a few classes of Krav Maga (it was literally the only gym open at the time). They had us doing that "rotate your arm and hit with the top two" thing. The reason given was that hitting this way got your arm up higher, and it let your shoulder be a shield for the side of your jaw. It was a very uncomfortable way to hit. I simply could not rotate my arm enough to get the top two knuckles to hit first, and I wound up tearing up the lower knuckles as a result. This was one of the reasons that I quit going when other options became available in the spring. Also, while I never had a problem with this, I can't help but wonder what effect it would have on your wrists if you continued to hit with them in that awkward position.

[@JKDandWingChun]

Great input! Thanks. People forget the basics of history. We forget that the past masters of boxing were self-defense fighters first and foremost, not sport fighters. That being the case we have so much to learn from them but we’re blinded by what C.S. Lewis called chronological snobbery. I always say, look for people who did what you’re looking to do…look for those who did it with their life on the line. Modern sport boxing has much to offer but it’s quite far removed from actual self-defense now and the educated defender simply has to take that into account. To that end, Krav Maga, which isn’t a historic set of principles but a modern amalgamation/hodgepodge of contemporary methods, often falls into error. It’s go a lot to offer but its lack of systematics hurts in areas like this. Thanks for watching and for the great input.

[@ruiseartalcorn]

Well said! I agree 100%! The vertical, bottom three knuckle punch is far better. The only time when the horizontal punch (with the two big knuckles) would be a better choice is when puching a low target (solar plexus) - because the hand is in proper alignment. However, for higher targets the two knuckles cannot make the first contact without bending the wrist, which is a problem. The vertical punch is much safer, plus it allows the elbows to point downwards, thus protecting against someone shooting in for a takedown.

[@aztecfox1]

Applied body mechanics. Nice one Jason

[@JKDVIPER]

2:59 the two top knuckle thing is a WHIPPING FIST it’s used as a whipped hit. It can be swung is why they like it. It’s a sloppy mans shot. They have a version of it in mantis..

[@popsharrison5431]

General Store Organics Chnl. has 2 Joe Lewis- JKD vids uploaded; very cool: echoes a lot of what you've discussed. many similar points. 👊

[@mariagoodyear4695]

Thank you very much for this piece of practical advice.

[@johnr.1749]

I always used both techniques depending on the punch thrown and target. For punching my concrete wall, I use the bottom three. Over the years my f-u knuckle is aligned for both styles, more flat outward, more rounded inward. For the street. I broke a lot of guys knuckle whom were not conditioned. They should slap instead... Most broken knuckle is the pinky imo.

[@robertsmith6068]

also a looping punch or hook can be a good strike.

[@Arman-jx7hu]

Very very interesting!! This was a really great video!

[@philbara5149]

very well presented...thank you Sensei😊

[@robertsmith6068]

I would just say sometimes it's better to hit with Dempsey's power line and sometimes it's better to hit with the first two knuckles. I have read that in bare knuckle street fights ( i don't know about bare knuckle ring fights) most of the knuckle injuries are to the small knuckle.

[@mikeruddell6091]

It is surprising that people would argue with your points. It seems like common sense to me, but I guess based on our recent politics it is lacking in other areas as well.

[@jaketheasianguy3307]

I have heard of conspiracy theory that people pushed big gloves into boxing competition is because it will make the fight more interesting for the casual viewers. Gloves are weapons, and since it protect your hands, you can fire head shots way more frequently than bareknuckles and the viewers who just want to see a brawl like that. Which is sadly also the cause of people getting brain damage way more often than other combat sports I have trained to corkscrew my hands for a very long time and at this point i could punch the bag bare knuckle with my 2 top knuckles without breaking my hands but i could see your point from a beginner's POV. The thing is the reason people turn their punch horizontal so their shoulder raise up and it protect the chin from a counter wide long hook (idk is this a thing in old boxing but i really hate it since it doesn't even land on the knuckles if you take off the gloves, it only works when you hit with the padding). Now i use both since the JKD straight lead is indeed a valuable tool even in combat sport

[@bripowered]

I've purchased both Jack Dempsey and Jim Driscoll's books based on your recommendation. Great reads! I do have question about the Dempsey roll I see it discussed on quite a few channels. Is this effective? Would this work with JKD? In the meantime thanks for all you do.

[@JKDVIPER]

1:34 imagine me using that fist on one of my whopper punch videos? 🤣☝️lol I’d be in the hospital real quick

[@IamNster]

As a boxer, I have personally never been told to aim to hit someone with my bottom 3 knuckles. I've been told to more or less treat my fist as a hammer + twist my hand a bit upon contact

[@jedidiahsantos8241]

hence the wrap and the gloves to protect your hand.

[@duncanpagano9270]

There’s nothing wrong with the two knuckle landing in boxing if done correctly. However, I realized that I looped every single one of my punches in actual bouts. No doubt because of the adrenaline. Even my straight right to the body wasn’t straight. Now I’ve stopped turning my punches over during training and started using bag gloves rather than traditional boxing gloves. Vertical fist is much easier to throw a completely straight punch, especially a cross/straight right. Maybe when I get more advanced I’ll go back to turning them over

[@richandclean]

this seems like the most sensible method and nobody is mentioning the boxers hand fracture.

[@JKDVIPER]

That two top knuckle thing is strange? I’ve never seen such a thing? Weird

[@deanjohnson2377]

Hey, Sifu: As a former resident of Greenville (now practicing law in California), and a life long martial artist, I really enjoy your videos. I have a question about this one, though: If the horizontal fist hitting with the first two knuckles is so bad for bare knuckles fighters, how do you account for the fact that Okinawan karate styles rigorously train to hit that way? (In fact, many Okinawan karate schools feature the horizontal fist with huge black front knuckles on their logo to emphasize that this is their signature technique.)

[@thullraven1]

I've successfully used vertical punches in the street striking with the two knuckles and never broke my hand. I also made sure the technique was done correctly, I knocked an attacker's teeth out with a punch once.

[@MorganTay]

I think it is because hey aligned their knuckles properly. If u notice in this video he does not align his front two knuckles with his wrists. Watch Fight Tips video about punching to get what I mean.

[@flavioaleph]

Hiding key statistically important patterns of application are common to oriental techniques secrectiveness

[@tommynoblethecouncilofheav4657]

I agree 🤛🤜👍

[@AK_UK_]

Question pls, when you do a 3 knuckle landing - are you actually hitting with the space in between your ring and index finger? Because when you do the strike, not all the surface of your index finger lands. Your example of putting the fist on the wall, most people's index knuckle isn't fully landing, it's more the bottom half of the knuckle supported by the bottom 2 knuckles.

[@jedidiahsantos8241]

yes, as when you punch on vertical fist,anatomically there is no support from your forearm, unless you tilt your fist down. you'll notice, if you haven't trained your index for bare fist impact it actually hurts a lot when hitting a wall versus the 3 bottom knuckles. hope this helps.

[@AK_UK_]

@@jedidiahsantos8241 true. Thanks Bro

[@robertvondarth1730]

Question: some people argue to use a vertical fist but the top two knuckles, because those are stronger This feels way off

[@AK_UK_]

I always wondered that - because the index knuckle doesn't land unless you bend the fist slightly

[@thullraven1]

I've successfully used vertical punches in the street striking with the two knuckles and never broke my hand. I also made sure the technique was done correctly, I knocked an attacker's teeth out with a punch once.

[@johndrake5467]

Interesting video. Question. How did the old school karate fighter train bare knuckle against makiwara boards using horizontal fist punches? Is there something structurally different about how they punch to the boxing horizonal punch?

[@jimdur5982]

I think they are punching on a downward trajectory so that the top two knuckles land first.

[@dragos2023]

Different technique in traditional karate. It's not the downward trajectory, they just clench their fists differently, they don't use a lot of bag work, almost not at all and the punches are aimed towards the neck area. They use fingers, forearms, elbows, legs so there is not a lot of punching involved, not like boxing. That's traditional karate not modern. The modern karate styles: Kyokushin, Ashihara, Enshin they use extreme conditioning of the hands and body which takes many years to achieve and yes, they use the first 2 knuckles which they condition a lot.

[@faraday7387]

Sifu, is it possible to train JKD on the wooden dummy?

[@kenpokarate4187]

I watched this twice...*WOW that was confusing!!!

[@richandclean]

8:11 Can you discuss using the top 2 knuckles as this feels the best to me (vertical fist)?

[@JKDandWingChun]

@@richandclean that’s not a bad idea for a video. Thanks!

[@Sadri778]

cool

[@gregorylatta8159]

Actually test have shown the vertical fist with wrist slightly turned down landing the top two knuckles is optimum. Best alignment. I know Bruce and Jack taught differently but this comes from modern research. You still punch straight in every other way.

[@richandclean]

Interesting I just tried it on the wall and it feels strong, gonna try it in my boxing class tomorrow 👍🏾

[@John14.6OuO]

Thanks Btw👇 God LOVES YOU so MUCH that He sent His only son to die In YOUR PLACE so you won't have to die under Gods judgement but live forever IF you fully trust in Jesus. Please repent from thinking wickedness🙏🙏🙏

[@Larsbor]

What do you do when you albow start hurting because of overstretching.. should I stop WC completely or is there something to do about it.. I heard someone say you have to hit like on the photo completely twisted (the Russian way..) it seems to help but works bad in sparring…

[@EatonRon]

Hi Lars. No don't stop WC for this. (although your teacher should have taught this) Never over stretch a punch basically as you will only injure yourself, even when hitting thin air in practice. A WC fully thrown punch shouldn't end with a completely straight arm, but still slightly bent downwards at the elbow. By slightly I don't mean tiny, a significant angle - not straight out! Do that and you won't have any hyper-extension injury to your elbows. It won't decrease power and will give some lee-way to the end of the punch as to when you release the power, on/off energy. Not having a fully extended arm will also aid with not having pulling on your arm (lap) being so effective against you as, again, you have some give to spare and utilize in body movement, so that you are not pulled. (your arm cannot be relaxed in any form if fully extended in a punch btw and you also could never put any force beyond/ through the target this way as there is nothing power at that point) I had a few lessons with a dude in Hong Kong, taught under Ip Man, who made me realize that there is an uppercut in WC, where I was doing it So differently, so I wouldn't be too concerned about being too classical with WC. Before JKD, being a conceptual style (with huge roots in WC) WC already was, and should still be that, evolving, like yourself. I always couldn't be arsed with drills and always went with WC concepts - as any real opponent will not be wasting time thinking about steps 1,2 and 3. I really don't know about the hand stuff in this vid, but do what feels right to you. A real fight is going to be messy, like a brawl, but you have advantages if not trying to overthink style. If I've not bored you to death, then you have won!!! Peace.

[@Larsbor]

Funny all boxingtrainers say you have to stretch you punch by twisting the hand. And in KM you are also tought to punch like in boxing ..

[@Lovellyoungwolf]

I've been boxing for as long as I've been doing Wing Chun, 15 years. I've hurt my hand more often in boxing then I've ever done in Wing Chun if ever.