You're Ruining Card Counting For Everyone

Playing Blackjack professionally, part time, or as a hobby requires you to learn more than just Card Counting. A huge part of successfully playing Blackjack and maintaining the edge over the house is perfecting the way you act in the casino or more importantly how NOT to act at the Blackjack Table. We are going to share 6 things that you should NEVER do at the Blackjack table if you want to make it as a Card Counter & "A.P." (Advantage Player).
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0:00 Intro
0:53 Being Obvious
2:15 Playing Same Table
2:35 Talking Business at the Table
3:12 Blaming another Player
4:46 Being Memorable
5:26 High Maintenance Player
8:50 Learn More

[@juanmalone8053]

Again, as a dealer in a high end casino, these are wonderful tips. Thanks for another great video.

[@chuckecheese4124]

Great tips and insights coming from the best of the best. Thank you very much Colin Jones, and Louden Often. Please keep the videos rolling just like a rich shoe!

[@thetruthwithtrevor]

Great video. So much of this is basic 'rapport building'. Understanding human behavior and being able to fit in with any crowd.

[@kevingreig9577]

All of these tips can also be used in day to day life, too. Helping people be better people. Good video 👍

[@MrGivsaro]

Exactly the video I've been waiting for!

[@The_Edz]

Finding some self control and being self conscious in a casino can go a long way. Colin seems to have discovered this through his experiences within the casino. From one AP to another, I admire your long journey ❤

[@BataraKado]

self snitching much?

[@johnbpkc8797]

My teammate and I were doing some team play and this guy asked us if we knew Colin and that’s the only time in my career I’ve ever been frozen.

[@fljetgator1833]

Great video! Thanks y'all

[@MatthewDanielGreen]

Great content as usual. Best wishes from your friend Ryker.

[@kristiwatson3497]

Love your videos!

[@Lidz2193]

That last tip of “don’t talk to the dealer if they don’t talk” was one I implemented after about 50 hours of play. My first 50 hours I tried to be chatty Kathy and that resulted in me dropping the count on occasion, or not betting the right amount, etc. Now, just over 100 hours into my AP career I typically look for quiet and fast dealers. 140-180 rounds per hour when I just shut up and play.

[@JDQBMIC]

HI Justin. I appreciate your advice, However if your "act" is to be yourself and you are a talker you will talk. At least until you read the room. Wishing you the best possible variance.

[@christianmathison1182]

Once they spot you, the pit boss will come and talk your f-ing ear off trying to throw you off your count: first time it happened, I didn’t come back for 2 weeks while I practiced talking while counting. Just learned to wait until all cards are dealt then I can quickly scan and know the count. So much better than counting while they’re dealing

[@johnstackhouse1706]

Is asking the dealer not to be chatty because "I have a headache" something that might work

[@tw9535]

Great advice. Don't give them _additional_ reasons to want you to leave. They'll take them.

[@chrisfinch8637]

For me, I might have an idea, but mostly I stay silent on those things- I don’t want to be that player to give anyone the wrong advice, when it comes to playing the game. Everybody has their own strategies.

[@PplsChampion]

these arent just blackjack tips, these are life tips

[@mikehong2691]

Colin&Loudon!-Your Great Advice About The Blackjack Tables-Applies To The Poker Room Tables-Also!&Thanks!&Good Job!-Raymond "Mike" Hong!&(I've Won@Blackjack&Poker!-Mike!)😎👍!!!!!!!!!

[@jdaz5462]

My local casino went from cutting 1.5 decks in a 6 deck shoe, to cutting 2 decks. I suspect they did this to reduce the edge of an AP.

[@Seeds-Of-The-Wayside]

I had given up blackjack during the heat of the pandemic, because the casino had switched to video bj only! Now they got paper cards back, so I'm brushing up on my counting again.

[@mtznow22]

Always very useful all the recommendations, it is appreciated; please practice the pocket for example what app do you recommend in the apple store? Have a great day!😊

[@danmarsh5949]

In 15 years as a dealer and supervisor, I've attended a few "game protection seminars" that cover counting as well as some other things. I've wondered from some of the questions they've asked, how likely it is, that they're recruiting new talent. Any thoughts? On a different topic, I'm presently between gigs, so if you need a dealer for some event in Vegas, I'm available.

[@chrisfinch8637]

I meet certain players who don’t follow the basic instructions or have clean behavior at the tables, from time to time. It’s the matter of how to handle emotions or control your casino strategies, when wanting to be a big winner. Blackjack is a lot of fun, but it is an emotional casino rollercoaster (no NYNY pun intended), with the types of cards you have, the beverages you drink, the people you see, and how much is being bet, throughout.

[@Savagemister]

Another video! Yes!

[@christophergargaro959]

When Colin talked about being forgettable, I immediately thought to the card counting scene in The Hangover when Phil is flipping off the camera and yelling at the dealer re: Alan "He CAN'T lose!" - aka everything you shouldn't do. I know it's a comedy but whenever I get a good count and get on a streak I always think of that scene and chuckle how I could just ruin this right now by acting like that.

[@tjnaevans]

Hey Colin, more and more Casinos, especially in Vegas, have gone to 6-5 BJ. Also seeing more continuous shuffle games. Is this their strategy to make card counters extinct? Maybe a video on this topic?

[@RockyShootingStar]

“Mom! BJA uploaded! Come check it out!”

[@majorramsey3k]

I asked another player to meet me in the restroom once. It didn't go as expected.

[@grifter84]

Had a table to myself last week. A fresh shoe starts and another player sits down. "No problem," I think, I don't mind sharing the table with one more player. Except he doesn't put so much as a chip on the felt, just sits there and watches me play. The new shoe goes negative very quickly and, not wanting to play through the negative count, I Wong out. As soon as I step up, he gets up and leaves as well without a word, never having played one hand. Couldn't have been more obvious that he was hawking the cards letting me play until the shoe went positive. I was annoyed and felt slightly disrespected, but at the same time almost glad there was another counter in the room being even more blatant than I was!

[@ConsistentEV]

Hi there Blackjack apprentice.. is there a file I can download to show me optimal blackjack strategy? Where can I get something like this

[@robertjonez5]

Do you have a video on if you should have a card with a casino or decline if you plan on playing religiously due to the "comps", which could certainly help on expenses with travel lodging etc?

[@elijahkuhn2451]

The answer depends on many variables. Generally starting out you should probably play unrated.

[@antoniosmichas8598]

What brand is the blue watch?..

[@JaviEngineer]

I purchased the amazing app, are you guys coming out with a Spanish21 update ? offset count(-4RC per deck, no 10s, 678,777, 5card 21, 6card 21, and match the dealer)

[@shofarsogood7504]

Do you try to hide eye movement and watching? Does it come easier? I always feel like Im being so obvious, especially with bad vision and have to focus so hard.

[@SaviorMachine84]

Gotta admit Ive been guilty of hawking but more because I actually like to watch the game and compare myself to other BJ players.

[@paulklemer]

Wow you are back!! I thought you retired already

[@TheHunter0224]

Okay Ive been practicing for about 2 months now doing research along the way and is a 1 to 5 bet spread good to keep risk of ruin low cant find any free calculators for this stuff anywhere I dont want to invest more than 500$ for my bank roll not looking to make a lot of ev even if its 2$/ hour any info would be great

[@jordanbrown-to8bu]

hey Collin I just got the I phone app its a big help thanks alot

[@Blackjackapprenticeship]

Thanks! Glad it's helping you train

[@Zeequals]

I'm still practicing at home and have a little trouble keeping the count without using all my focus, but instead of mouthing it I've ended up gently tapping my tongue against the roof of my mouth whenever I recite the count in my head, the tactile impression helps it stick in my head, and I do 2 taps for negative count instead of thinking the "negative 1" or "n1" in my head and flatten my tongue for 0. This helps me a lot particularly when the count is negative cause it's easier for me to just reverse the rules and think +1 for 10's and -1 for 2 through 6's and just remembering I'm in the negative with 2 taps than to work in the negatives, but I'm hoping to just have it comfortable in my head before I'd take it to a casino

[@apuertorican1773]

With all that tongue work I know ur head game is krazy😵‍💫

[@youngmusicc]

​@@apuertorican1773ayo lol

[@JordanNHoule]

Fine line between “Hawking” and “wonging”

[@lukahodnik7506]

how long does it on average take to get count+10 or more?

[@jeffbrehove2614]

So what's the difference between "wonging" and "hawking"? Or rather how do you wong in and out without looking like hawking?

[@FATillery]

After having practiced online for months learning the Basic Strategy by heart, I went to a casino. An employee was kind enough to find me a table with a spot. I purchased $300 in chips and began to play. After nearly an hour and having won almost $900, I grabbed my chips to head out. As I stood up, a guy next to me looked me in the eye strangely but, I continued to the cashier with $1,190 in chips. That was the last time I entered a casino.

[@oldbretto7071]

Why was that the last time? If it worked why not go to another casino?

[@FATillery]

@@oldbretto7071 For one, I was quite nervous as that was my first-time gambling or in a casino. Secondly, despite winning, I did not like the environment, so I felt it was not worth pursuing again. I learned the Basic Strategy because I was on a website which allowed me to play and learn so I thought I would give it a try in real life. Most importantly however, money ain't important to me so I will stick to the virtual game.

[@mully107]

Cool

[@wizzard9795]

@@FATillery hey can you tell me where you learned it please?

[@1badjesus]

@@wizzard9795 ..didn't you read where he said verbatim "I PRACTICED ONLINE for months"? 🙄

[@clivewarner2162]

Never been asked to stop, but I have several times had the experience of the casino changing the dealer repeatedly, even going through 4 or 5 dealers in an hour. Why is that?

[@christophercarlone9945]

The last trip I attempted to try and save my AP career last winter I got immediately kicked out of multiple properties. Lol So much for being forgettable I guess I did something right in the short time period I was meeting success

[@christophermccaul5662]

I haven't even started watching yet but I'm gonna shoot a guess.... using your fingers to count🤣

[@lukebeyer1121]

I get the hawking one as far as backcounting. But what are you supposed to do to backcount without it being obvious?

[@vickidelamar3715]

I want to know this answer too

[@rhpmike]

A huge part of this is just getting experience and being able to get the count in just a quick glance at the table instead of having to watch every card. If you can count while you're in a conversation, using your phone, counting your money, etc., then you can backcount without it turning into hawking. Almost all of these rules actually come down to just fitting in.

[@emericogarcia6957]

Just started watching your videos a week ago and they are very awesome and educational have been wanting to play blackjack for sometime just wasn’t sure how to learn to play but now I know what it takes going to start practicing to learn all the skills needed to beat the casinos thanks for the videos

[@dpjacobs28]

Also, wouldn’t it be beneficial to make a few larger bets when the count is low (ie not in your favor?). Seems to me if you are attracting attention giving back a little to win more in the long run would be good business….no?

[@cancarriz]

I love the one about quiet dealers, not engaging with them if possible, and trying to be as forgettable as you can. This rule can apply to other players as well. This is extra annoying when it comes to people who walk up to the table and try to be as loud and obnoxious as possible. Screaming "Let's take the casino's money! You ready?" Like "I'm ready to pick up my chips and go to another table".

[@larryhatcher8927]

Just one other thing.....As you mentioned it's important not to bring attention to yourself.....anyway once I was playing with a real sloppy dealer. When the dealer got an ace he would check his hole card for the blackjack. Problem was I could see his hole card when he checked. I remember one time he had a 9 for a 20. I thought it was kinda funny that if I came up with 19 and then hit that.......what would happen

[@Joecuzzi]

About 10-15 years ago after watching the movie 21, I thought it would be funny to walk up to a table, sit down, and ask, "What's the Count"? That's when I learned that some Dealer's actually will count cards for you.

[@MarkH10]

I speak English. I can say "Thank You!" in Spanish, Japanese, Chinese, Bulgarian, Amharic (Ethiopian), Russian, and Portuguese, and probably a few others. I also look it up QUICKLY on my phone. You would be amazed how a 1 word vocabulary does me so much good.

[@David-hc1zh]

Can you do a reaction to Vegas Vacation Blackjack scenes? 😁

[@realDesertRat]

Have you thought about opening up a Discord server? Somethings to think about. It's a great way to grow the community. Especially with the younger crowd. Cheers!

[@eliasvilla8902]

Im 19 and Im going to learn how to master this and now I can’t wait until I turn 21😂😂

[@martom.8202]

Just hit a 2 and you're good

[@RightURKen7]

PERFECT basic strategy, PERFECT card counting. You've got 2 years so practice, practice, practice.

[@mikebarnes2294]

Don't forget the need to build a bankroll.

[@user-ii3bm5se1f]

Would it be weird to carry a basic strategy card around and resort to it while playing?

[@92908777]

Good afternoon! Thanks again!!

[@haydenharkot4942]

How common is it to run into a CSM? I have heard these are becoming more and more common on lower tables and if this is true, does this increase the barrier to entry when counting as it forces newbies to start at higher tables?

[@TP_Gillz]

Never play any CSM game. Thankfully, they are not very common. And places where they are, just suck. Even if your not counting, you still should never play it.

[@JMNT1]

In Europe almost all casinos are CSM only. I don’t know any shoe games within 1500km from me

[@felixsoheili1154]

In Vegas there isn't to many CSM machines off strip. Of course every property on the strip has one but you just need to look around for example the Luxor pit has 9 tables of 6:5 Blackjack at $15 but 4 have CSMs. If you were to look near the carnival games they have 3 3:2 games at $25 out of a shoe. Same everywhere else I was at Mandalay Bay people were playing $20 CSM 6:5 but only 3 people on $25 3:2 and only 3 on the $50 3:2 Stand on all 17s.

[@jackwang660]

Just because you didn’t do any of those the casino won’t kick you out?

[@all_bets_on_Ganesh]

If you can spot another card counter, cant you watch his bet unit from a distance, and use it as a signal to enter the table as at a high count? Or is that bad etiquette?

[@stevenhelgason8190]

1) yes 2) kinda, but who cares about etiquette?

[@TP_Gillz]

You might as well just be wonging in at that point.. Maybe you get away with it for one shoe, but, its gonna look mighty suspicious if you keep entering mid-shoe. Might blow up both your spots. Just avoid IMHO. Better for both of you.

[@SNEAKYFITNESS]

What are some of your favorite casino’s in Las Vegas for blackjack?

[@Aluzshanadar]

is it easy to spot another card couter at the table if you dont know them? just from their gameplay

[@russlehman2070]

If you're counting and another player at the table is increasing and decreasing bets when you are, they are most likely counting too.

[@kfullmer89]

Once you have been playing for long enough it's easy to spot another counter before they even sit down to play!

[@user-df4ow9dd9y]

What if they already have your identity from before you decided to count at black jack tables?

[@markadams8041]

As a dealer I do love very much the forgettable, low maintenance players. My persona as a dealer is to admire numbers, mathematics and chance. So I encourage players to play by strict basic strategy, but I never criticize unless the players claim to know more about basic strategy than me. I do bark out as a dealer when people double down on soft 18. It is not greedy, it is basic strategy. Of course I am judicious. When there is success doubling down on the soft 18. I bark out like a carny barker about the success. I go quiet and insist that the person was following basic strategy, quietly if basic strategy fails as it does at times.

[@flashystorm]

What's the difference between hawking the cards vs. Wonging in?

[@longliveethiopia123]

Hawking does look natural! Wonging in is basically back counting and hawking is making it look oblivious

[@somethingbeautiful2552]

I just watched you video on progressive betting and you said that the reason it doesn't work is because the house would have the edge and im just wondering if you were to use progressive betting but only when you have the edge using card counting to gain it. I dont have the blackjack software to test it but it makes sense in head but until im sure im just using what the math says to use so far

[@Kevzilla100]

When the house has an edge, rearranging the size of your bets doesn't matter, the the house's edge is what it is. Similarly, if YOU have the edge, and you size your bets by anything other than the amount of your edge, then bet size doesn't matter, your edge is what it is.

[@somethingbeautiful2552]

@@Kevzilla100 thx

[@randominternet5586]

@@somethingbeautiful2552 The other issue table maximum (ie, you can't double forever to make back a loss) and bankroll (yours is almost certainly smaller than houses which means you could have no money left well before they do).

[@Andrew_Young]

Could you give some advice on stealthily wonging in and out? How do you wong without hawking the game?

[@itsrrraven]

im a dealer. patrons frequently "wong out" all the time. just dont place a bet, relax in ur chair, have a drink (fake water is fine). stand up and get on ur phone if not allowed at the table and just do whatever, hopefully you can get the count of the active hands at a glance correctly, if you cant, id brush up on that. sit down again. play with ur chips. then just start playing again. dont need to make a scene out of it. gamblers will sit out for hands at a time on any table coz the flow doesnt feel right, or because a new player sat down and suddenly dealing to 4 boxes instead of 3 is bad, or because they lost a big one, or won a big one. also you can just watch the game and react to it. gesture annoyingly when the dealer wins, tap the table when a player wins. its far easier to act like a gambler when you realize that gamblers pretty much do everything

[@Andrew_Young]

@@itsrrraven thanks so much! This is awesome advice! I need to brush up on my game before I'll be able to do that stealthily, but it's good to know it's possible!

[@itsrrraven]

@@Andrew_Young the three things i would point out specifically you should try and actively incorporate. 1 - funnel chips slowly off of the table in a winning session discreetly. if u buyin for 500 and have 6k stack on u. maybe we look at u more. 2 - do not buyin all at once. brought 5k? buyin 500 at a time and add on as needed. 3 - in longer sessions, make sure to play through some low counts and non profitable shoes. wonging out is fine if u can do it inconspicuously, but if u do it often it starts to look sus.

[@christophergargaro959]

I think some players get unnecessarily freaked out by wonging and that it somehow will look super suspicious. The frequency and manner in which you do it determines a lot about how much it will get noticed. Have numerous friends who are dealers and they said the same thing other dealers here have - players enter and exit tables all the time. It's not that uncommon.

[@blake1722]

AP dice thrower here. And before you say it's impossible it's not. You will have swings like blackjack but it's harder to win at craps. Craps is all muscle memory and staying calm. Blackjack is where the real $ is show me ur ways Luke.

[@visualnxghtmare6838]

Does card counting work with other random players in the casino or do you have to play alone ?

[@michaelclarkj]

From what I have observed from other videos, you do not have to be alone. Counting is about monitoring the ongoing state of the cards left, which can be done with it without other players present.

[@imgonnagogetthepapersgetth8347]

4:58 LMAO!!!!! Card flicker! LOLOLOL!

[@GenXisT]

I'm pretty friendly with nearly every dealer at my local. The wife and I are Bac players so they know us from that. Lately though i've been playing way more BJ than Bac, but no one has made anything of it because they know I don't usually bet all that much and that I have played BJ in the past as well, so it's not out of the ordinary to play or talk to the dealers and other regular players.

[@casanovafrnkenstein]

How do you wong in or backcount without looking obvious?

[@SirJoelsuf1]

I usually pretend that I'm texting or calling someone when I back count.

[@kfullmer89]

Get good at figuring the count by just glancing at the table for a couple seconds after the dealer has dealt everyone their cards. Pretend to be interested in other games if they are nearby. Stand as far away as you possibly can while still being able to tell what cards are on the table.

[@garysimpson1268]

I dont drink at the table but a drinker believe it or not is a good thing at a table ill actually have 2 or three over a session I've been a card counter for 20 years believe this there is always something to learn

[@ozzy1949]

Once the count is positive , do I change my style of play or do I still play by the book ?for example the count is +5 and I have a 15 and the dealer has a 10 , do I still hit or do I stay since the odds of me busting are higher ?

[@stevenhelgason8190]

In that situation you would be correct to stand. There are plenty of deviations. Learn them. Research deviation charts. Or research the " illustrious 18", which pinpoints yhe most common deviations based on certain counts.

[@TheJohndeere466]

I would love to be a card counter but I am 6' 6" tall and I have a pinky finger missing on my left finger. Probably be easy to remember. lol

[@hsernay2446]

😂😂few day ago I told a guest that you cannot cover your bet and he didn't listen then I gently move his hand . He said he wanna gonna punch me 😂

[@Blackjackapprenticeship]

😳

[@GoldnShadow]

Loudon should take more pride in his name, its not like he is forcing his name, he just shouldn't use his real name since he is a season card counter, he should ignore that it kind of seems like a cheesy pun and just have it roll off the tongue as one word. Enjoy seeing him in the videos.

[@neatstuff1988]

And I would agree however if you find another player who is a better AP than if you see him betting big you'd better follow suit.

[@tylerwieczorek6011]

I worked at a restaurant in a casino for 7 years. Ever job in there is basically customer service. Just act like a decent human and you’re good 🤗

[@clydeb7713]

Hard fact if you do EVERYTHING right,you only gain a 1% advantage! Most people will make mistakes,miss true count,etc Counting cards and making big 💰 are movie scripts. Short term, playing basic strategy and increasing your bets as your winning will also give you the illusion you will come out ahead. Remember,when the cards are rich in 10s the dealer will aso get 20s and BJ. Also before you want to jump in with both 🙌 ✋️ s the ist 3rd of deck might have the 10s so you're NOT betting more. Also, when you bust first,then the dealer busts the HOUSE WINS!

[@randominternet5586]

The other factor is bankroll. The edge is small and the swings can be large. If you go bust on your bankroll before house goes bust - then the house wins even if that swing was just part of the random walk. Can you handle a $10,000 swing? The house can and will day in and day out. You see plenty of players up keep playing, then when they are down or run out of money they leave. If you keep on playing when you are up, and leave when you are down or go bust, then you'll likely be leaving when the house is up.

[@nicholasmartinez6043]

Question about being “forgettable”- what are your thoughts about dressing too “fancy” or even looking “too good” as funny as that sounds. Is there an advantage to looking more average Joe than high roller?

[@tmtmtlsml]

You want to look like the kind of player that would be betting the amounts you're betting. For example, if you're in the high limit room playing $100 minimums, you will stand out more in jorts and sandals than you would if you were in a polo and slacks. If you're on the main floor playing $15 minimums, you're going to stand out more in a blazer and tie than you would in a stained graphic tee and ripped jeans.

[@christophergargaro959]

Know your surroundings. If you are playing in a regular pit at a local place, dressing in business casual or semi-formal on say a Wednesday afternoon is likely going to look out of place because everyone else will be there in jeans and casual clothes. I also try to always wear neutral or muted colors and nothing loud or bright. I usually don't wear a hat but if I did it would be a muted color with a small or no logo - nothing to ID me by. Usually I just go with jeans and a single color pullover or polo shirt - trying to look like every other middle-aged white guy in the place.

[@garysimpson1268]

he mentioned not tipping much i realize that it cuts into your ev but tipping is a Normal reaction when your wining just remember your dealing with a small margin also you need to be good enough to correspond with other players and the dealer. thats important get good enough that u can laugh and joke with other players and the dealer

[@fabiotredesini3089]

Hi Colin, hi everyone, I'm new to blackjack and still practicing my knowledge of basic strategy. I wanted to ask you, if I split two aces and splitting them I obtain another couple of aces (assuming that the rules of the game let me hit or double after splitting aces, but don't let me resplit), what should I do? Cause there's not this case in the tables of basic strategy. By intuition, I would say that staying is not the right thing to do in this situation, but i don't know if I just have to hit or there are situations where I have to double. Thank you for your attention

[@Dantizzle912]

99.9999% of casinos will not let you hit or double after splitting. You get one card on each and then your hand is done (resplitting aces where allowed is the only exception)

[@PaperPlateParody]

I would double 6, but hit everything else. I assumed the game is 8 decks.

[@drewgs3959]

i think you're a casino supervisor for cardcounters ahahhaha you don't hesitate to show your faces ahahhaa

[@TP_Gillz]

They are both retired. Go watch the movie Holy Rollers.

[@marvinbarnett3218]

How can you count cards with a game with 8 decks cards

[@Laf-Adventures]

Louden Often would be a great commentator name.

[@Nubs1981]

This video would've helped years ago 🤦‍♂️

[@larryhatcher8927]

What thing I see that I think would be hard to hide......to count the cards you always have to be watching the cards. I think I could easily spot the card counter at a table. He is the one that never looks up

[@Mrclean431]

Uh no. It takes nothing more than a glance once u get good.

[@gratefuldoge8598]

When you eat beans do you fart? Loudon Ofton 😅

[@circleo1992]

I have a question: Would playing other games, like Roulette or Craps, help hide the fact that you're card counting? By the way, something funny is that in the intro, it looks like someone is getting paid even money for a Blackjack.

[@stevenhelgason8190]

It very well could be helpful. So would playing crappy games like Free Bet. It certainly would reduce suspicions. But why do it? Even with limited play of other games, the strong negative EV would negate any miniscule positive EV from blackjack.

[@circleo1992]

@@stevenhelgason8190 A card counter has about a 1% advantage in regular Blackjack. This means that if a card counter bets less in other games, they would still make a lot of money.

[@stevenhelgason8190]

@@circleo1992 It would all depend on how much or little he/she bets, and how much or little they play the other games. Even if minimal, it still adds to the cost of doing business - even for a counter good enough to glean a 1% advantage( assuming ideal rules. good penetration, flawless play and an intrepid bet spread etc. etc.)

[@simpleguy6751]

What about learning how to intentionally lose and win big once in awhile then leave after certain amount of winning, and go to another casino, do the same, and also take a break from casino once in awhile just so you will be forgettable easily.

[@gabechiodo7228]

But I’m your online classes you said you always stand around a table and would never sit down unless the count was positive?????

[@ThePeterDislikeShow]

What is the story about how your friend became known as Loud & Often? Did he celebrate loudly when winning?

[@wildcatterry17]

I have never met another AP…yet.

[@i.eduard4098]

I wonder what is the mind of a casino when a player look at the cards? Do they consider him a donkey that just bets without logic or something? Like it doesn't cross their mind that all players try to memorize what they see? One of the reasons I would never have a business such as a casinos, I would be defensive and consider that everyone tries to rob me.

[@MewtwoStruckBack]

As an AP in a different niche (arcades), so much of what you say definitely translates over there as well. We don't have to hide what we do in many places so long as the play's above board (read: not cheating) so the first three points don't apply, but most of the rest definitely does! Not blaming someone else for getting theirs yet your last part of #3 "now there is an exception, which is we don't want to prematurely ruin things..." - if a game's set far too generously, or misset in the player's favor, there's a fine line between "if this isn't hammered too hard, it can be a consistent source of profit" vs. "there's no way this doesn't get changed shortly, no one can get blamed for getting what they can". In your world, the former would be like finding a game that was 3:2 S17 all doubling allowed and early surrender, but after they lose money they make it a H17 game and remove surrender, while the latter being, say, a sloppy dealer that's exposing the hole card half the time getting retrained or removed, or a Switch or Free Bet game where the dealer isn't pushing 22s; no one player, or small group of players, trying to protect a "mis-set" game is going to prevent the error from being fixed eventually, so maximizing EV is the proper move. Not being memorable...it's not as big of a deal where you have to hide your identity, but the arcade AP that bitches incessantly about the most minute of details isn't going to be given leeway when it comes to situations where they have a real issue, but the cool, calm, and collected AP that brings an issue to someone's attention is more likely to get a result in their favor, just as in your world a jackass isn't going to get the benefit of the doubt on an exposed card or a misinterpreted signal on their action for the hand. And being a low maintenance player...oh man, that's absolute critical in our world, for the same reasons as not being memorable. Being the low-maintenance AP in my world has granted the most amazing perks and player-friendly decisions where I'm at, whereas the Jerkwad Jasons of the world that are high-maintenance players get exactly what is expected and not a cent more. That said, even some of the first three parts may apply in some places - not so much outright hiding identity but disguising winnings (read: not cashing out tickets for items until you're confident you've got all a game has to offer in a place that is apt to change things at the drop of a hat, as some places may only look in to just where your winnings were sourced at the time of cashout - and that even applies in the big stores in cases of a misset being involved.) Thanks for posting this!

[@seymur7422]

How can you be an AP at arcades? I never heard it.

[@MewtwoStruckBack]

@@seymur7422 Sorry I missed replying to you earlier. There are a lot of moving parts to it. I'm mainly going to be assuming we're talking about Dave & Buster's but there are other smaller chains where much of this advice can apply - it is even possible to AP a local, non-chain arcade but those are hit and run jobs at most. The preparation - first, there's scouting the arcade to see if there are (A) games you have the skillset to win on, jackpots worth it for you to consistently win, and prizes not only worth winning but reselling. Also, checking to see what discounted game play can be had for the arcade in question and if necessary, finding/buying discount coupons. So, in my case, it's something like...go to a gas station that offers both a fuel rebate program for purchasing gift cards to the arcade, make those purchases there with a credit card that gives cash back bonus on gas, during a time where the gift card is also on a promotion with the gas station. For me it ends up being a 15% kickback in the form of free gas, and 4% back on the credit card, so a net of 19% returned to me before I set foot in the door. Then racking up all the games that are worth hitting - some have their difficulty reset to easy overnight, some don't. Managing a schedule of when to go and play vs. what's worth hitting is important. Dave & Buster's doesn't allow for coupons to be used on Wednesday (games are half-price all day) but you can load your cards up with credits on other days and play those chips on Wednesday to double dip, it just takes the extra effort. Once enough tickets are won, finding enough items worth flipping to cash out for, and knowing those are items that either consistently retain their value as retailers don't discount them pretty much ever, or things where the margin on the tickets you pay to the retail value is so good that you can let the market shave a bit off the top on eBay and still be way ahead. With Dave & Buster's specifically, they don't change a game's payout based on the actions of a single player - they have what is called "global settings" where all games are supposed to be set the same way at all stores. So there's no such thing as "you're too good, get out", or "this game's paying too much at this store, we're going to change it to make it not worth playing at this one store just because of you" there. Other arcades (Main Event, Scene 75, Zone 28) absolutely DO perform those actions though, so some form of cover as to how much you're winning and where would be necessary at some of those places. That's not to say D&B doesn't make changes though - we just recently had a game have its jackpots dropped from 500 and 1,000 tickets to 50 and 100 respectively to end a run where people were getting multiple million tickets a week from just one game's existence - but they were getting burned so hard company-wide that them making a change was understandable even to APs. I think they could have done it differently as to allow for a small amount of wins by the AP community, but at that point they had no interest in acting in our best interests as far as that one game went. Once you've racked up the tickets and cash out though, the last thing you want to do is start a price war with other advantage players doing the same thing. In an ideal setup, if the primary sellers of the item(s) in question are all doing so by winning them from arcades, you would pretty much be entering into a "cartel" of sorts, everyone mutually agreeing to keep their item at the same profitable price, just under retail and and just under what non-arcade resellers are selling at. Yes, this is price fixing. No, I don't care - we should absolutely be doing this if we're in the same market and sourcing from the same place. Pretty much the arcade advantage player version of an MSRP. TL;DR; acquire coupons, check for rebates, research prizes --> purchase gift cards to arcade at greatest discount/rebate possible --> load as many coupons as needed when using those gift cards --> jackpot games as much as is feasible --> cash out for prizes most profitable to flip --> ensure market stays healthy by matching price with others doing the same thing as you

[@seymur7422]

@@MewtwoStruckBack Wow I didn't knew, this is awesome; how/where I can learn more?

[@MewtwoStruckBack]

@@seymur7422 Searching for Dave & Buster's jackpot videos will help - my channel, at least the content before Tetris 99 took over on it, has a lot of things from the old days, most of which are at least somewhat useful. The Dave & Buster's subreddit will also be of use, but don't come in and immediately post "tell me everything I need to do to win" - it's seen as disrespectful just as expecting card counters to help and cut you in on their territory for free would be. Lurk there and see what you pick up on.

[@seymur7422]

@@MewtwoStruckBack ok thanks man :D. PS "Before tetris 99 took over" lol

[@vickidelamar3715]

I might be guilty of hawking. I thought I was just back counting though.

[@TP_Gillz]

Just know it looks much more suspicious now a days to do that and keep getting away with it. That's all. If its working for you, then more power to ya! Certainly beats paying rent at lower limits with a limited bankroll!

[@ShadowMind312]

Always remember that there are up to 50 cameras watching you and your movements at the table.

[@The713Sonic]

I’m 127hrs in and I’m down about 2k from my original bankroll. I’m just not sure if I should keep going. I don’t know if it’s the casino, me, or my bet spread. I’ve tested out, checked my bet spread and all is ok on 40hr ev yet I’ve lost more high counts than won. The cut card is at .25 percent in dd,3/2,h17,split,das,double😢

[@zakkwyldesdmf13]

Did you do simulations on the rules of the games you play, betting spread and bankroll? Do you use playing deviations? I suppose you played max. around 8,000 hands in your 127 hrs. of playing time. I can tell you that I simulated a 1-4 bet spread on a single deck game recently. At least once did I have to simulate over 20,000 hands just to break even. And remember: The risk of ruin may be present despite your bet spread! But it's very important to do a double check. I would encourage you to let another player check on your game. At least check your game by doing card counting and basic strategy drills.

[@The713Sonic]

@@zakkwyldesdmf13 I guess that’s not a bad idea. I’ll just need to start looking for another AP. Also, I haven’t done simulations as I don’t have the software. I’ve only used a bankroll app.

[@zakkwyldesdmf13]

@@The713Sonic Addendum - just did a sim of 8,000 hands with dd, 75 % penetration and 1-6 bet spread with a $ 10 unit. I was down 140 bucks. Next 8,000 hands - $ 3,000 profit, but with some serious dips at 5,000 hands ($ 1,500 loss at one point). Maybe that's your state right now.

[@mikecara3271]

Ur prob fine…assuming you game is good. Tide comes in…tide goes out

[@The713Sonic]

@@zakkwyldesdmf13 hmmm 🤔 thank you for the check I’ll give it another shot!

[@18inchesthecomedian]

😎

[@mcpr5971]

I disagree with asking another guy to meet you in the bathroom (lol). aside from innuendo, one of the easiest ways for a casino to detect an AP is to go undercover as if they were an AP and try to start a convo. Tons to lose and very little to gain.

[@tmtmtlsml]

It's amazing how many APs need to be told to just not be a dick. Seems like this kind of lifestyle tends to appeal to less conscientious people. Sound advice throughout the video

[@brianl2607]

for casinos that dont show the burn card, do you ask to see the burn card every shoe?

[@russlehman2070]

It's very unusual (at least I've never seen it done) to let the players see the burn card. Don't worry about it. It's exactly equivalent to moving the shuffle card up one card. In other works, it makes almost no difference.

[@christophergargaro959]

Local casinos might show you if you ask, but most will make it a point to notify the pit boss if you ask. Local place I play at will show it but announce it like a player cashing in or coloring up to floor so they know. If this happens from the same table every shoe, floor will obviously take notice and you could bring unnecessary heat on yourself for something that is largely inconsequential in the grand scheme of the running count.