This was absolutely amazing, for the love of god pleaasseee keep on making informative video’s like this. Your out here creating actual artists and helped me a LOT to the journey of becoming good at anything artistic more than only photographs! Thanks for everything
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for your comment. I'm glad you think so! We're just getting started here. Plenty more to come. Thanks for being herre!
@cojimarinfante358112 күн бұрын
@@Codacolor Please stay, you’re helping so many people thanks 🙏
@dawnkeyy2 жыл бұрын
What a beautiful freaking video. Not just visually. I don't know if you know about the channel FortNine. It's about motorcycling, but the way their content is written and their presenter (and writer) Ryan, remind me a lot of you and your channel. There's this certain warmth, lack of judgement, openness, no-bs approach and looking at the wider picture sorta approach (no pun intended). Plus, their cinematography is incredible as well. And I don't even ride a bike. Please never stop making videos.
@underthought7906Ай бұрын
I was wondering why I kept getting vague senses of deja vu watching Cody, and the FortNine comparison is spot on.
@dimitri24618 күн бұрын
Agree. Beautifully presented
@reneweisz915722 күн бұрын
Your title had me on edge for a moment, my blood pressure was rising! I was bracing myself for yet another shallow take on "purity" in photography, but you completely blew me away. This is the best video I’ve seen that explains how editing has always been a integral part of photography. Huge kudos to you for sharing such insightful knowledge!
@shaynegraymedia16 күн бұрын
Ha! Same!
@ally27562 жыл бұрын
I love what you said at the end. Sometimes the raw image feels less sentimental because it just did not quite capture all the beautiful aspects of it that made you decide to lift up your camera in the first place and if editing will make that happen then sign me up. Always a pleasure watching your videos!
@elias_martinelli2 жыл бұрын
this has to be one of the best video essays on the topic of editing out there. outstanding writing and wonderful photographs.
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much, Elias!
@elljit2 жыл бұрын
the production on this is absolutely beautiful, will not be long before the views are coming in the hundreds of thousands
@randymelton60966 ай бұрын
If you're a photo journalist then by all means, don't edit your photos because they're supposed to show the scene exactly as it is. Otherwise it's up to the individual artist to edit their images the way they like them. Exactly as you said, there probably isn't a photo publicly displayed somewhere that hasn't had some type of editing done to it. Even the purists that have to get everything right in camera and don't do any post processing editing display a processed image if they shot it in jpeg. Whether they want to admit it or not, their camera edited the photo to add sharpening, contrast, noise reduction, etc. So even their "right out of the camera" shot has been edited. Anymore I've gotten to the point where I don't care if someone says my image was edited. In fact I tell them yes it was because that's the way I saw the image and how I wanted it to look. I'm not a photo journalist, I'm a digital artist that happens to use a camera as a tool.
@gavinm2159Ай бұрын
dang well said
@jamesheller918529 күн бұрын
Yeah , imagine unedited raw photos with no color correction whatsoever Well said
@Far198829 күн бұрын
Even as a photojournalist you will ultimately edit your photos before them being published. May it be minor colour correction or contrast shifting or just putting it into "auto-correct". Just take a look at the "world press photos" and tell me they're not edited. Sure, you shouldn't edit out or in objects or people - but even by noninvasive measures you can alter the message of the picture: by cropping, either after the picture was taken or even before taking the picture. I would argue that in this sense even the process of taking the picture (and thus changing the frame, aka framing) is a form of editing.
@meatbyproducts27 күн бұрын
As someone who has worked as a photojournalist, you do edit your photos. Basically, stick to what you could do in a dark room.
@bruhdabones25 күн бұрын
@@Far1988depends on which org you work for. AP photogs don’t do anything beyond exposure (and maybe WB if it’s not scene-accurate SOOC)
@kollariklukas94082 жыл бұрын
Whenever I feel that photography has lost its meaning for me, I watch your videos. They always inspire me to get up and go take pictures. Thank you for your content, I always learn something new. I really appreciate your work with the video and editing. You have a very interesting visual style and always very nice colors. I'm glad that there are still people who take pictures on film. Thanks to your videos, I much prefer to shoot on film than on digital camera. Sincerely, a huge fan from Slovakia (Europe) Wishing all the best :)
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
I'm so glad to hear that. Getting people (myself included) outside with a camera is the goal. Honored to play a small part in your journey friend. Thanks a million. ✨
@Usiris232 жыл бұрын
You’re such a great speaker. Could listen to you explain photography all day.
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
Thank you. I really appreciate that!
@Farah-zz5cb2 жыл бұрын
This channel is criminally underrated !!!
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
I'm glad you think so!
@aadithyanjr13822 жыл бұрын
Such a masterfully crafted video! And on the subject at hand, I too had this distaste towards manipulation until I learnt that Steve McCurry edits his photos. I remember people turning that into some kind of a scandal but the majority didn't really care. Anyways, thank you Cody for making such amazing videos. You genuinely create art in an ocean of people who create content
@Magneira2 жыл бұрын
The problem is not that he edited, is that he lied about, said all his photos are documentary photography etc and them he got caught. If you are a white American going to India and earn thousands of dollars from the photos you take there, you should be at least honest about it. You can do whatever you want with a photo, just don't sell it as a strait photo.
@RohannvanRensburg4 ай бұрын
The issue isn't that Steve edited his photos, it's that he manipulates _situations_ in a way that's detrimental to local cultures for his own selfish gain
@tudor142 жыл бұрын
Unreal mate, attention to detail is mind blowing. Thanks for sharing and creating!
@TechStuffWithAlex2 жыл бұрын
You've done it again pal, totally killing it! Thank you for doing your own thing, and keeping things fresh on KZbin!
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much! Appreciate you being here!
@mmariattheresa2 жыл бұрын
Your videos always have that photography school kind of feeling with such precise research and creativity. Thank you. So much.
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
My pleasure! Thanks for watching!!
@MisterFoxzee29 күн бұрын
I just realized this video was uploaded 2 years ago and that you had a break from KZbin. Glad to see you've returned to making videos! After this one I'm definitely checking out your other stuff. Your style, calming voice and amazing explanation deserves much more than 56k subs.
@philociraptor675117 күн бұрын
Not only do I like very much your pictures, but also your candid and inspiring look on photography and your deep passion about it. Thank you for sharing that.
@BeatrizTorres-g9t13 күн бұрын
What a pleasure having discovered your channel! Not only I enjoy everything here but…I also understand perfectly your English which sometimes (in other videos) turn to be difficult to me due my language is Spanish. Thanks!!!
@sleepyricky482612 күн бұрын
This is really in-depth content and should also age like fine wine. This brings a lot of comfort, peace of mind, clarity or assurance to photographers and other artists using different mediums. Some situations can call for techniques like double or multiple exposure, and what better way than to bring out the magic in the classic dark room, or the modern dark room that is Lightroom, Photoshop, etc. The simplicity or complexity of tools and techniques easily make our work exciting, motivating, unique, special, personal and to a greater extent, inspiring.
@davidroberts67662 жыл бұрын
100% agree…. I shoot both digital and film. I, also, try to edit with the thought of transporting the viewer back to my artistic vision upon capture. Have I overcooked in editing? Hell yes…and, you know what, on rainy days its sometimes fun to go back an re-edit old images with a more subtle touch. Non-destructive editing suites….i love you! Great video.
@lolaloliepopАй бұрын
Your videos are so incredibly well made. I'm not a photographer, I'm a painter/concept artist just trying to learn more about photography, but these are some of the best all encompassing videos I've seen out there teaching any art or design discipline or medium that aren't just "technician" videos.
@PavelVK16 күн бұрын
Ha, I started watching on my phone and went to a coffee shop to finish what was such a treat to my eyes. Well done, Cody. Also, this is the first time in a long time that I have left a comment under someone's video on KZbin. And you didn't need to tell me to do so. Thank you.
@teelafia2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for your raw and honest take on editing. I feel guilty sometimes if I edit my work, but as you have quoted “a thing of beauty is a joy, forever!” That should be my mantra every time I tweak my photographs.
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
Glad it spoke to you. Thanks, Pearl!
@cordobesa8912 күн бұрын
Thanks a lot for this video! I completely agree - the whole "overcooked" photo editing is a phase on the long path of learning how to edit photos in the most honest and/or artistic way possible.
@AyeMinAFS2 жыл бұрын
Your genuine love an passion for the medium really show in this video. Thank you so much for making this video, felt like I learned a lot!
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
So glad to hear that. Thank you!
@SincerelyBryan2 жыл бұрын
This is an incredible video. The love that went into this is felt every second. Thank you
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
Thank you, Brian!
@somnus61792 жыл бұрын
Absolutely incredible. I'm so glad you're still here man
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
Thank you! Not going anywhere anytime soon!
@AlexandruMusetoiu2 жыл бұрын
i can only imagine the work that you've put in making this video and your channel, i wish you get more popularity on this platform, you really deserve it
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
Really appreciate that, Alexandru. Thank you!
@RaahilR92 күн бұрын
You’re an incredible story teller & and even better photographer. Subscribed!
@RickLincolnАй бұрын
Cody, I am awestruck with your potential. Your abilities as a photographic teller of stories holds the promise of a bright future. You make your knowledge of the history of our craft clear and appear to be proud to stand on it's shoulders. And, you share both as would the best of educators. You do these things with a maturity that is beyond your years and with a sincerity that makes it feel certain that you do this for others, not yourself. If you look at this video 15 years from now, you'll understand why I am so impressed. My best to you....
@b3telnut8119 күн бұрын
Wow man, one of the best photography I have seen lately. Very educational, philosophical and well spoken
@dirkpehrke99092 жыл бұрын
Didn’t expect such a great history lesson. Thank you!
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
No,. thank you, Dirk!
@amoghavarshaav1530Ай бұрын
One of the best ever tutorials and videos I have come across. Thank you for making such great content.
@Majd3lawneh2 жыл бұрын
Boy oh boy, i've been going though this for a while now, even though that I came across your channel for the sake of learning film to dismiss editing. but thank god you've uploaded this. Thank you so much for this amazing video!
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
Thanks, Majd!
@phabio78392 жыл бұрын
What an amazing video this is! Many things you said felt like fingers snapping and waking me up. Thank you I look forward to watching more of your videos... what a wonderful journey I'm sure it will be!!
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
I'm so glad to hear that dude! Best of luck on your future creations
@gustavominikovsky2 жыл бұрын
bro your content is just perfect. love watching every single one of your vids
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
I'm honored, Gustavo. Thanks so much for watching. It makes it all worth while!
@gabriella21862 жыл бұрын
Love your story-telling (in both visual and verbal capacities)! You’re the man Cody 🤙
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much!! 😊
@zornbtaylor18 күн бұрын
What a wonderful video. I think the only thing I take issue with is the use of the word "Doctored" which has a pejorative tone. editing is part of the process, just like pre-visualization and "getting it in camera" thanks for this, Cheers
@mattbibbingsАй бұрын
Two things. 1) Photographers who use the SOOC flex (straight out of camera) need to watch this. (I will be keeping a link to this video handy to drop when needed) 2) When someone tells me that I must have a good camera I tell them that I do, but only in the way that Tiger Woods had good golf clubs.
@luigisacco33082 жыл бұрын
You are great man! I've discovered yesterday your channel and I can't stop watching it. Great contents! I did not see a channel as beautiful as yours from the Nick Carver's one.
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
Thanks, Luigi! Glad to have you here!
@deimos3717 күн бұрын
Man, after seeing the title I came here like "okay, let's have a short look on what this joker is about" but I watched the whole video and it kept on giving. Starting from interesting historical facts, through biographical elements and scientific curiosities, then showing the other side of the coin, while finishing with very mature and self-aware reflections. If I could take one sentence from this video with me it's: "who decided that the camera was the authority on how things ought to look?"
@mrepicpant2 жыл бұрын
Wow this video was insanely good, I subbed after not even 5 minutes. Ridiculous quality for a channel of this size. And btw I would love to see a side by side of your favorite pics part with the edited and unedited ones!
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much, Nolan. Welcome! and that's a great idea. I should have put that in the video!
@wikiesz61842 жыл бұрын
Okeyyy 60 seconds into watching this video and I’m thinking “Wow such amazing narration editing etc.” Then I look at number of subscribers. Can someone explain why someone doing this amazing video has only 22,7 thousand subscribers ?!
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
The truth? Because I don't post frequently enough.
@cojimarinfante358112 күн бұрын
Keep working with your ❤️ and being honest, it will pay off at the end of the day.
@KrewNL2 жыл бұрын
I've actually went on a vacation to Greece and shot 3 rolls of film. Most of the images were a bit out of my tast, which led me to edit the images. This gave me the feeling it was cheating... but here it is. You actually took away that feeling by making a video about editing an image which is a part of the process!! Well done Cody on making yet another awesome video about a thought which probably went through a lot of peoples mind.
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much!
@VanK78229 күн бұрын
Very good points, and a balanced take. I think the core of this topic is not that photographers have to only share essentially raw images, but rather that excessive editing has become somewhat the norm, and is literally altering people's perception of reality en masse. The amount of the infamous pictures from North American forests in the fall that are edited to be bright orange is astounding. I personally also find it sad how often I see photographers edit life out of their pictures with AI - removing any sign of human habitation from cities to make an image 'cleaner'. All of which seems to be passed on as a reflection of reality, when often it becomes more akin to AI collage
@philiporr13302 жыл бұрын
Man this was great! Well done. Your videos are always so well put together.
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much, Philip!
@axelbostrom360628 күн бұрын
What a video! Your words here really resonated with how I see editing, dark room work, ect... 😄
@martinsnelaudioenhancementАй бұрын
Your video's are so nice, you are such a good teacher and storyteller. Keep up the good work man!
@expeditionpangaea226Ай бұрын
HI Cody. I only found your channel last night. Never knew about you before or about your time away from the channel until I watched some of your more recent stuff. Wanted to pay my compliments to your content. It's very well done and interesting. I like the way you approach your videos. Something calming about this and encouraging at the same time. Keep it up. And Thanks!
@adss7027 күн бұрын
I love the 'Storyducational' (Storytelling & Educational) style of your videos, Cody. Thank you for that. On a side note, and possibly a topic for your future videos, my next question relates to our (most likely) first impressions of photography being family photos (e.g. family holidays, birthdays, playing sports, etc), has this changed over time and what evidence is there of any related changes with newer generations? or is it still the same... just more modern cameras?
@bydiegoandres2 жыл бұрын
that photo at second 14:01 is amazing and problably underrated. i had to stare it for a while and notice that my favorite detail was the tree that was centered right behind the door window
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
I'm so glad you noticed that!
@usednotuseless2 жыл бұрын
This deserves sooooo much more attention than it’s getting. Love love love it
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
Thank you! I'm glad you think so!
@Sarah-fx5bd2 жыл бұрын
This video was phenomenal, just discovered your channel and I can’t wait to check out the rest
@thesecretlifeofmichal2 жыл бұрын
I have been doing draft of a script about the similar topic. In Czech language. Now I feel like there is no need and I can link your video instead, haha. As a street photograper I was going for the Fan Ho approach, but I will definitely do it anyway, even though I will not convey my message as well as you did. Amazing video as always Cody, thanks!
@roberthubbell4915Ай бұрын
A terrific and thoughtful video with an off-putting and misleading title. I almost skipped over the video because of the title. Glad I took the time to watch to the end. Keep up the great work!
@chisenglam79382 жыл бұрын
Another great video Cody! Would love to see your editing process in your future video. I have learnt the basics from your channel and my photos come out quite good. However, I feel like I can do more to those photos to depict my vision or how I can make it to look more like when I was capturing the shot.
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
Thanks, Chiseng! I've been toying with the idea of doing a video on it, and almost put a segment on it in this video but that would've made it a bit too long. Know that it's definitely on my mind though!
@HenkeB5153 ай бұрын
By far the best video I've seen on this subject, both by content and style. Thank you!
@DaveFlys2 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much for this video. I love your style, and the comparison to Ansel Adams brought the whole thing home for me. I’ll keep editing my art.
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
No, thank you, David! Appreciate you being here!
@johnny_geoАй бұрын
i have just found your channel and i am enjoying it immensely. this was just marvellous. thankyou.
@johnny_geoАй бұрын
i’d also add that I like your images a lot, and you are a good writer. both have integrity i admire.
@geoffscott506625 күн бұрын
nice job Cody: vid editing, well thought out script, eloquently presented. You must have a good computer LOL! I have now subscribed for more . All the best😀
@RYANPARKPHOTOGRAPHY2 жыл бұрын
wow, thanks for the video. this is so awesome! I have been thinking about but you make it really well! always enjoy!
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Ryan!!
@DumbAsh00 Жыл бұрын
HOW DOES THIS ONLY HAVE 9K VIEWS? this is the highest quality video I've ever seen on this site
@ebreevephoto Жыл бұрын
you amaze me... please continue to do what you do - you bring some sanity to this art
@gaugea8 ай бұрын
really incredible man. i know everyone else has said it already but this deserves way more views
@EuanMacLennan2 жыл бұрын
such an amazing video. so much work was put into this. massively underrated dude!
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much, Euan!
@Jess-805 Жыл бұрын
You're very knowledgeable and articulate. I enjoy watching your videos. By the way, I'm a resident of Santa Barbara and love seeing the cool spots you photograph!
@elisllinares2 жыл бұрын
I discovered you a few days ago and you are changing my life as a photographer. KID-YOU-NOT!
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
Honored to be or service. Thank you!
@angelgrace1175Ай бұрын
This video was the best big picture take on the "dOnT eDiT yOuR pHoToS" trope! Its an art form at the end of the day, we should strive to make beautiful timeless things. Thanks for this wonderful video!
@FredShootsFilm5 ай бұрын
Baffling to me how few views these get considering they’re some of the best production quality on the platform and the storytelling & information is sooo well thought out. You’re an inspiration mate!
@tdawg71917 күн бұрын
Bro… amazing video. Just subscribed. Hope to see a lot more of your stuff. THANK YOU!
@IshwarMishraYT10 күн бұрын
Such a well made video!! Good job❤
@diegorosales20352 жыл бұрын
What an amazing video. You really know how to set a mood. 🙌🙌
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much, Diego!
@iSackPerson2 жыл бұрын
Wonderful upload! This is kinda random, but have you considered doing a video on trichrome film photography. I recently discovered that you can use trichrome on infrared sensitive B&W film and create some pretty wild images, depending on how you choose to "show" the infrared part of the spectrum (for example showing it as red). It is another example of "editing" being used to create very unique and interesting results.
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
I have not, just because I've never dabbled in trichrome, but perhaps I'll check it out. Thanks for the idea!
@Ahrik2 жыл бұрын
Another great video! Really enjoyed this style, and hope you keep producing more.
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
Thank you! So many more to come!
@SkalyosАй бұрын
Just discovered your channel and I love it!! Thank you for this great content et visual experience!
@liperosden4606Ай бұрын
reeeeealy like this "national geography like" approach to tutorial videos , great delivery !
@jesusalvarado6074Ай бұрын
Love this channel! Cody, you are awesome! Thank you for posting these awesome videos! Got yourself a new subscriber!
@PROVIIAАй бұрын
This was beautiful. Thank you for creating this for us all.
@corentinb35662 жыл бұрын
Incredibly useful and cool video ! Thanks Cody
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
No, thank you!
@j.c.m51682 жыл бұрын
I love your videos. Just wanted to say that. I'm gonna have to pick up a Mamiya some day to try out. I shoot on a Bronica ETRSi and a Horseman VH-R 6x9.
@sinaga_afriani15 күн бұрын
Really nice video. At the end, photography is all about finding our own way to create our own creativities. Will people accept it?. It depends how that person interprets all the works. I believe the power of diversity in photography and it does make every photographer's interesting. Thank you for your insights and encouragements.
@jacksondoughty28 күн бұрын
Loved this video! Would love your take on instant film.
@sphaera3809Ай бұрын
Ansel Adam’s books taught me how to push my black and white darkroom skills to perfection and even got me to a prestigious MFA program back in the 90’s. The film is still the most important piece of the process, but dodging and burning when printing, and even mixing contrast filters was fun.
@enhimmelskdr0g2 жыл бұрын
Great video with super clear explanations! I just found you and you got yourself a new subscriber :)
@90sStarterJacket29 күн бұрын
Great video. I think developing your photos is just as much a part of photography as actually taking the photo. It’s scary that people think cameras have the capability to capture objective truth. Great video, watched it on a whim.
@user-bh6bv8xu3v8 ай бұрын
I loved this video man, from start to end ✌🏼 well done :D
@ComalvАй бұрын
This was a surprisingly insipring video. I think a good rule of the thumb for editing is: "whenever you crank a slider in Lightroom to a point where the image looks great to you, halve that value and it will be better" (so if you added 50 in the shadows slider, just use 25 instead, and for layer-based software like PS, halve the opacity of the adjustment layer). Not sure where I've heard it first, but I still hold true to it to this day when an adjustment "feels" like it could get out of hand if I just increased (or decreased) the slider a touch more.
@hypoflipzy115725 күн бұрын
Honestly I think editing is just another skill to express creativity. It’s not cheating, it’s more like digital art. Photography for me is about bringing what I see or feel into reality, and ultimately just having fun.
@Hygix_2 жыл бұрын
I adore your video, i wish i could express more but i dont know how, im just gonna say that this video give me idea on what i want to do, thank you
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
Sometimes the best feelings are those we can't describe. Honored to have been a positive influence. Wishing you the best of luck!
@kalimbacloud29 күн бұрын
I really enjoyed this, beautiful and thoughtful. Thanks!
@DopravniPoradce29 күн бұрын
18:00 Yes! Amen! Thank you for this video, it's good to see that someone's going through similar paths I do.
@moha21317 ай бұрын
man I love your videos so helpful and also very artistic and enjoyable to watch 🙏🏼❤
@XRNC2 жыл бұрын
God damn this is beautifully shot and cut together, well done sir
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much, I appreciate it!!
@exiulryАй бұрын
I’ve learned more about photography in this video than any other, and not just the importance of editing, but the essence and beauty of photography in its own art.
@PaweDrozanski22 күн бұрын
Love your work. Greetings from Poland.
@Synapzze2 жыл бұрын
Killed it again cody!
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
thank you!
@ChaseBenjaminCollects2 жыл бұрын
Yesssss. This is so true. Thank you so much for this.
@robhamilton899327 күн бұрын
Interesting video. I remember when I seriously started taking photos & took courses in college way back in 1973/74. Had a Nikon FTN b & w film camera. Set up darkroom in our home laundry room with all the trays and definitely did a lot of dodging & burning to get image as I liked it. When I hear people make remarks about your edits when as u said even a 100 years ago they did dodge and edited. Oh and living in Florida I’ve been able to meet on several occasions Clyde Butcher. Ever hear of him? You should see his darkroom. It is amazing. I met him once after he just got an Dslr camera.
@peteb54612 жыл бұрын
Another gorgeously presented video, keep it up, always look forward to that little blue dot appearing ;)
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
Not sure exactly what you mean by three blue dot but thanks regardless! Appreciate you!
@peteb54612 жыл бұрын
@@Codacolor The little one that appears in the you tube subscriptions feed to notify of new content. Makes my day :)
@valjdakosta2 жыл бұрын
the cinematography is undeniably amazing
@Codacolor2 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much!
@sheilafoster-hancock568729 күн бұрын
What a great video. I shall keep it and show it to anyone who makes sniffy remarks about editing, usually people who know nothing at all about photography, sadly some photographers I know but not many.