You've Been Using DOWNFORCE Wrong in Racing Games...

[@TSRB]

Want to put these tips into use? Join my free, weekly sim races on my discord! discord.gg/tsrb

[@gymusen]

Learner to do corners with High Downforce vehicles after playing some DIRT Rally, got addicted to just SENDING the absolute hell of any car through corners so see the fast I could go before I either spun put or hit a wall

[@doot6516]

hopefully people start to get off those highway servers and start to race. I honestly have been pretty annoyed with assetto recently. Even the normal servers feel like im playing forza with all the turn 1 accidents and people purposely joining to slam into other. Assetto has just been bringing in the wrong crowd.

[@TSRB]

It's always been like that. Before Shutoko it was just Nordschleife servers. Before that, Spa track days. Gotta go to private leagues if you want to race (like the one in the pinned comment ;) )

[@Iceman-hb3uk]

Honestly I've found quite some good people racing the Tatuus FA01 or the Lotux Exos 125/S1 around Nurburgring, Monza, Imola, Zandvoort and Laguna Seca, it's hard but you just gotta find the right servers. Of course there's always that one that either doesn't know how to race and after crashing apologies or the one who just crash on purpose, but after a defined number of crashes in a certain time window he get banned from the server, so it's rare to find many people like that there.

[@Flowermouth]

Pub racing has always been awful in Assetto lmao And I’ve been paying since 2016

[@30hours51]

assetto public racing always been awful, I do shutoko, touge, rallying and circuit racing all sorts, dickheads are everywhere, but yes mostly it's the dudes in th ehighway servers who doesn't even know what braking is

[@RWoody1995]

@@Flowermouth public anything has always been awful in anything lol nothing to do with whatever specific game or whatever, even before anyone heard of Assetto Corsa when rfactor 1 was the king of sim racing in the late 2000's, early 2010's. ask a sim racing veteran, any of them about "Bros Megane server" everyone raced there occasionally and rarely had a successful race :P it's just humans being humans when joining a public game where there's minimal/no moderation or ranking system to penalise them for being a dick :)

[@Ausaradio]

This video dropped when I was in class, so I watch it in class.

[@ArianrhodTalon]

T’was a class act

[@triggeredemoji298]

Same

[@Eggyteevee]

Can we call it Emergency Race Driving Class

[@bluesatmosphere4659]

I drooped out of class because I did that

[@joaopaulovianaladislau4105]

I'm in class right now!

[@IRUKANJI]

Downforce really is so tough to learn because it's a constant war against the tires at that point. Faster wear on tires means they lose grip so you slow down but slowing down lowers downforce so you lose more grip and it just takes a long time to find that balance.

[@TheSilverShadow17]

Yet at the same time leads to you having a huge advantage over cars that don't have aero or downforce, most specifically around the corners obviously

[@IRUKANJI]

@@TheSilverShadow17 Corners are the best place to make time. If you enter faster and exit faster you don't just save time on the corner but you gain time on both entry and on the next straight a ton. Once you learn how to use Aero the advantages are crazy.

[@thraciandude]

It is important to take your time and to really "become one" with the car; learning its limits and so on. It becomes an instinct after that.

[@FelixVyra]

I think it's important to mention that downforce increases exponentially. Also it's not actually the air deflecting thats pushing down the car to the ground. Partly that plays an effect as well but it's actually the speed differential of the airflow over and under the wing elements that creates a low pressure area below it resulting in a strong sucking force.

[@JETZcorp]

The speed and pressure differential is the main physical driver of the force, but it's the deflection of the air which causes that. There's a sort of recursion to it. A wing with zero angle of attack will create almost no force (or none at all if it has no camber). The more the air has to get deflected, the more airspeed differential gets created in the process, up to the point of stall. But yeah, if it were just a matter of redirecting air mass, a wedge (or an old NASCAR style spoiler) would produce just as much downforce as a wing of the same size and attack angle. Those do create pretty good force, but much less because they're effectively acting like a deep-stalled wing. I suppose a wing really does redirect a ton more air than a wedge (or stalled wing), so there's still an argument to be made for the Newton's Third theory. It really is a bunch of all of the above.

[@lyndajazz829]

Wait til you hear about ground effect

[@derblaue]

This all seems quite a bit inaccurate. For example at 5:22: The blue line is not the optimal line since it has a tighter turn radius which means more steering angle. Just look at it this way: You stay longer to the outside and reach the exit earlier in terms of distance to the apex. This means that you have less distance to turn the vehicle the same angle which needs a higher rate at which the car angle has to change aka more steering angle. Also tapping the brake before corners might still be necessary to shift the aero balance further to the front. That depends on the rake, rear wing, front splitter, rake and (heave) suspension. So tapping the brakes gives even more turn in than just letting go off the gas. What's faster obviously also depends on the corne. You always only want as much turn in as you need for that corner. Longer corners need less turn in than a short corner (both have the same angle). Also what's shown in 0:59 Is also a bit misleading. Increasing rear downforce won't directly make a car faster through a corner, it only makes it more stable (it moves the aero balance further back). More front downforce allows for faster cornering (if the car stays stable enough). In some cases you might even be slower through a corner by adding rear downforce since the car won't rotate as much anymore. A good aero balance with less overall downforce can be better then more overall downforce with a worse aero balance. Usually keeping the aero balance just behind the COM instead of further back is faster (not necessarily the safer). Having the aero balance in front of the COM is obviously not desirable. This obviously also depends on the rest of the setup since you might be able to compensate over/understeer due to the aero balance with the suspension and alignment.

[@zelyzkocz283]

I love your videos, i was thinking that i was "decent" driver.. Your videos show me i have SOO much to learn.

[@pasteghost428]

Right. It never stops. I'm sure the bloke feels the same as you and I. Only fools believe they have nothing to learn.

[@MrHunterpower]

Not all the info he shares is correct tho take it all with a grain of salt

[@shortcat]

blue line at the end (one not touching apex) is actually sharper, not smoother line. it's the opposite of what you need to do to cool tires. what was actually meant in this advice is most likely to not turn the sharpest your car can i.e. you should use all the width of the track even if you don't need to let go of the throttle. that may be slower though because you travel longer. in any case, both optimal lines touch the apex, but the fastest is one that doesn't touch outer border on entry and/or exit. again, this only works if you are still full throttle. as for the first advice, i think another reason why trailng the throttle is better than hitting brake is that it keeps car level (not tilted front or back) which allows wings to work optimally.

[@AM-uk7jv]

So THAT'S why I've been instinctually taking weird lines with my maxed downforce cars in GT7.

[@voytec448]

Thanks man, you've teached me a lot since i started watching your videos i got way better at racing in beamng thanks to your tips, the tire "health" was probably the most usefull tip i've heard for sim racing

[@gabrielkrana4133]

DISCLAIMER: when talking about down force… it really matters more about what’s going on underneath the wing and car rather than the air going above. down force is caused by suction more than air pushing the car down.

[@PyroBlank]

4:33 you forgot one main thing, the entire reason ABS is given on production cars; as your front wheels are not turning, you have almost complete loss of steering.

[@RAIHAN____]

"remember, brakes slow you down" -TSRB

[@aidan_francis5738]

is anyone else appreciating music choice as much as me? Dnb/ Jungle just fits so well with fast cars, beautiful video mate!

[@SweetMooch]

I seriously thought this video was going to be a joke or parody about all the people using down force or grip cheats in Sim racing right now

[@turkicsayajin2274]

Hello ! can you or have you done a video about drifting specs for cars ? Like suspension , how to tune it drift oriented, rebound and all this complicated suspension stuff Differential tyres wheel size etc ! All the things you can tune on a car but drift oriented. I know all of the game don’t have the same physics but i think this could be a great video

[@hugokussj3531]

And it could be even for no drift cars, just knowing how to tune our suspension the way we want wold be great !

[@turkicsayajin2274]

@@hugokussj3531 yes ! What a stiff or hard suspension does to handling.

[@hugokussj3531]

@@turkicsayajin2274 I was more thinking about the toe angle as an exemple.

[@Fisheee123]

Love your videos! Also love the races you host!

[@TSRB]

Glad you like them!

[@hamsandwich1860]

Great video britbong. But i think that what you said at 5:25 is a bit questionable. Kissing the apex on a sweeping corner will enable you to steer the least and the smoothest. The straightest and fastest possible line tbrough a typical corner will always include reaching an apex of sorts

[@TSRB]

True i used a bad corner for this example.

[@Rathori]

F1 season started, TSRB released a downforce video instead of the usual togue stuff. Coincidence? 🤔

[@lucaswalker8361]

2:57 Track limit :)

[@Dominik189]

This was interesting. Although I don't bother with formula type cars or cars that rely on a lot of aero. I enjoy my tire based cars, I can Sena-out all I want in them.

[@ClarkBark14]

Downforce isn't generated by air deflecting off of the top of aero elements. It's a fast moving boundary layer on the underside creating a negative pressure pocket.

[@CL_Hat]

Both are.

[@ClarkBark14]

@@CL_Hat yeah but you don't exclusively use a lesser, secondary effect to describe how something works. The kickup on the top plane is mostly just to prevent the underside from separating before the trailing edge.

[@CL_Hat]

@@ClarkBark14 I'm pretty sure you are delving into such deep semantics that you are nearly wrong. It is a simple fact that adding a larger rear spoiler will create more downforce on the rear tires. Perfectly fine thing to say, any issue you have with that is actually your problem.

[@ClarkBark14]

@@CL_Hat I mean he did a whole incorrect visualization and description. And it's a "wing" btw. Just saying if you're gonna make an education video, I'm not trying to be snarky.

[@MegaCm123456]

@@CL_Hat If you don't understand the difference, it does not mean its semantics.

[@hokage_smoke]

I subconsciously started doing this after flying off the nurburgring in my nsx 100 times and gt set a 6:29

[@marmorslott16]

Incredible video, short and informative. i'll try these tips and get much faster thanks to you.

[@eugenenalpin6058]

Thanks fam, I've been struggling with Grip races in ProStreet recently, I think I bight be able to apply some of this knowledge there 👍 Amazing content, as always. Simple and understandable

[@speedhunter7156]

"this aint nascar" well only three tracks 6 times outta 36 races you wont be using your brakes and it was to the point on tracks like Martinsville or Richmond you could have brake or tire failure constantly be a threat due to lockups or excessive braking

[@vexos1327]

I was here for that nissan R33 GTR LM ngl

[@venglomarci]

Suction under the wing produces more downforce than pressure on the wing.

[@dentka8474]

+1 for background music

[@CodenameDuchess1984]

velocity doesn't change the volume of air at single point, but increases the level of force that the air has on the car

[@PlatinumAgar]

So now I know why I can match the fastest drivers with f1 cars and other really high downforce cars but not with the normal cars. Weird how my driving style suits those cars better as I started sim racing with drifting and got really good at it before going to any real racing. But then again I started karting irl at 5 years old and did it for like 7 years

[@vsm1456]

5:25 why this line? you call it "smoothed out" but it looks the opposite, it looks like a line with smaller turning radius, so it's more aggressive

[@Drunken_Hamster]

Love the quad rectangle headlights in that GTR. What version/generation is that?

[@HybRidChrome]

This just emphasizes the amount of technique needed to be decently fast with these cars...gotta learn to drive with more courage!

[@Grizzly1506]

i realized the power of downforce years ago. i just rely on traction control for those slow corners and god awful curbs (whatever they are actually called, im not aware of) because of my lead foot :/

[@Unduruz]

This makes so much more sense thank you man

[@sebastianzarek7056]

Since I startes simracing I always found downforce cars easier and learned those things really quick intuitely.

[@produck3098]

2:17 TRACK LIMITS!

[@TheRoadrunner11]

Thanks for the clear video! :) One thing is still not clear to me though and that is the way the rear wing works. It would seem to me that having wind force applied to the rear of the car would apply twisting momentum around the back axel and causing the front wheels to become lighter at speed, which is counter productive. Yet this doesn't seem to be the case. Is it because the way the force is applied directly on top of the axel to avoid any rotational force around the axel? some wings seem to extend far behind the rear axel, so not sure how that works. Or is something else I'm missing? Thanks!

[@marcos1669]

That is because is (AFAIK) wrong, you use the presure on the rear to create stability (basically so the car doesn´t loose traction on the rear when you are cornerning. To gain actual corner speed you increase the downforce on the front wing, that aplies more presure/weight on the front tires and that is what actually makes you corner at higher speeds

[@TheRoadrunner11]

@@marcos1669 That is what I thought too. Hence my question. I tried a car in Raceroom yesterday that had no rear downforce and experienced the tendency to oversteer at high speeds curves where the rear would step out very easily due to lack of grip. So in essence the video is not entirely correct as long as the car doesn't have front spoiler or wings to press the front wheel to the ground as well.

[@nade5557]

@@TheRoadrunner11 Well yeah you need a front wing and a back wing for the car to work properly, they counteract each other's moments

[@TheRoadrunner11]

@@nade5557 Yeah but not all cars with wings have adjustments for the front wing. So how can they counteract eachother effectively if you can increase the downforce only for the rear wing? Wouldn't that put them out of balance by design?

[@nade5557]

@@TheRoadrunner11 I think a lot of cars do have front wing/splitter adjustment. If they dont, im pretty sure its either suspension changes to compensate or they just dont mess with the rear wing. Or it may be beneficial to have a rearward centre of pressure to give the rear tyres more grip in some situations

[@shokikoyagune2224]

That Marshall gave absolutely zero care to the f1 formula car speeding past him at 200 mph. Man just be like: "This is the 2,471th time I've been sped by, I'm finna go home and smoke me a marlboro."

[@RomnysGonzalez]

This was extremely insightful and interesting to learn from the point of view of someone who is trying to gst into racing sims

[@RallycrossGT]

I like the way you explain Downforce. I wonder how much it applies to Gran Turismo, considering the physics are different from game to game. I would assume most of it is transferable anyway

[@Obi-WanKannabis]

It applies to any sim, gran turismo included.

[@sparkypete9221]

DOWN FORCE IS ACTUALLY MADE BY THE UNDERSIDE OF THE WING , NOT THE TOP PART LIKE DISPLAYED. PHYSICS LOL

[@stoptheace5223]

I'm pretty used to a non down force car everytime I exit I always oversteer but when I used an down force massive difference the oversteer is gone very gud down force

[@lilkris3008]

I started out on f1 2010 and I feel like over the years I’ve picked up on all these and when I go to drive a Miata I’m understeering everywhere and never thought to do a rally style brake tap to settle the car lol I just kept throwing more speed at it hoping it would stick like I did In the f1 car

[@youraveragegamer8832]

You understeer in a miata? Every time I take a corner at too high of a speed I'll oversteer like crazy

[@youraveragegamer8832]

I think our technique is different since you learned in F1. I'll get the lift off oversteer usually

[@JBBost]

Watching this one video helped me understand why I'm so terrible at F1 and supercars. Thanks!

[@k1mura92]

Great video! As a new sim racer, I observed this effect playing rfactor 2 and though hmm, is this whats happening? And what can I do about it? Fantastic explanation, hopefully I can start performing in the LMP cars at the same (dogshit) level I'm performing at in GTEs :D

[@danome9104]

i always breaks before corner, now i know how to use track car... (maybe not)

[@Eggyteevee]

gotta find some rally classes as well, I want to dominate _all_ surfaces

[@crimsonheart8108]

Never clicked on a video this quick in my life, loving the content

[@iammedude2]

What mod is that Calsonic R33?

[@Hetzerg]

I thought speed kills you but in this video it is like saying more speed will save your life. More grip

[@jackimo22]

That’s not how downforce works.. Air deflection causes drag. The low-pressure region under the wing created by increasing the airspeed under the wing that generates negative lift or ‘downforce’

[@nade5557]

its partly how it works. Lift is created by 3 mechanisms, deflection of air is one of them

[@s2korpionic]

Yo! Where did that R33 Calsonic Skyline came from? GTR 2?

[@voxnova9471]

How would you go about driving a high downforce car on a touge course with slower corners?

[@alxti]

woah its not a yellow car this time????????

[@csabaszlovak2324]

Anybody knows what the track is called shown from 5:02 to 5:46? Thanks👍

[@martixak]

lime rock park

[@csabaszlovak2324]

@@martixak Thankyou for the help 👍👍 Have a good day!

[@dominickp.115]

3:52, for like a split second he became American😂

[@BurningDrake39]

Very sweet video, now I'm going rule some plebs on my steam deck at ACC

[@danielwolfe4169]

3:18 hi mate how did you get these clouds?

[@TSRB]

Pure!

[@danielwolfe4169]

@@TSRB thanks :)

[@Urk3X]

I freaking love your videos, always a good day when u upload

[@tyretear1263]

downforce comes from the difference between positive/negative pressure areas, %80-90 of downforce comes from negative pressure areas not the positive pressure areas, so it is not the air flowing up is the thing that creates downforce, it is lack of air under the car (and wings), do your research properly next time

[@nade5557]

its more like 2/3 of the force for low pressure regions, 1/3 for high pressure

[@comicfan3133]

In General a good video, but there was one mistake, which I think should be made clear. How the aero works. Most of the downforce is created by lower pressure under the wings/body. This sucks the car onto the ground. This wasn't the focus of the video, so I can accept it, but it can be very misleading and confusing if people later want to learn more about the aero.

[@Xem1822]

Another W from the sim racing king

[@SuellioAlmeida]

Your videos are so cool! Such an inspiration!

[@v4skunk739]

Technically its low pressure that sucks the wing down from underneath.

[@venglomarci]

Great video!

[@dennik8374]

what mod do u use for the hub cant find it on discord

[@Giuliana-w1f]

What's the name of the app in 1:59?

[@metalhead6604]

What is that song called at the start of the video?!?

[@jackverna339]

Songs used? Love the dnb and jungle in these vids ❤

[@CJR0506r]

Nice R33 👍

[@Hachiae]

no mention of lift and coasting?

[@c0r0lla29]

Imma need that gtr r33 please 😭

[@pasteghost428]

I was just thinking about what to watch and I thought, it's been a while, I'm gonna look at some tsrb. And lo and behold the first thing the algorithm gives me is the junglist himself. He knew. He knew.

[@bluesatmosphere4659]

How many hours do you actually have in asseto Corsa?

[@Yiujin-Kun]

Don't slow down? I've been doing that in IRL go karting for some years now. And with the fast outdoor ones, not the slow one for kids. Now I just have to find a game that I can 1:1 replicate it in but no game is accurate enough. Maybe one day.

[@joshuabenson2568]

How did you learn all this? Can you list some sources?

[@KnightTDM]

Nice vid! This time its alot bettter!

[@vladvorobev7064]

Nice! Good video

[@lordadz1615]

That Nissan calsonic mod please looks amazing. Link plsh

[@deluca2922]

I knew this was going to be good vid... Thank you.

[@mrnice88x]

lmao did the kids just find out about this? Holy fuck the brain damage

[@TSRB]

holy fuck the cringe

[@ambruhzevic]

could you review the neman ring? would be interesting

[@emonookie]

source: trust me bro

[@Anksh0usRacing]

It’s funny you drop this when I’m trying to beat my record on a Forza 7 time trial in Indy cars lol I’m 40th in America rn but I know I can go faster

[@pythonboi5816]

That one guy who cheated with a vacuole car Haha beat that

[@RyceFiveZBeats]

This video shows your personality trying to explain things which clearly you don't understand. Most of downforce in F1 is due to the underfloor creating low pressure sucking the car down and helping with aero wake the wings produce, that is why these cars have huge downforce changes during diving, squatting and rolling. Your concept of wings creating downforce because they deflect air in the opposite direction is just wrong, most of the wing's downforce comes from low pressure aera under the wing, not deflection. You can hypothetically deflect more air upwards but create less downforce, because of flow separation under the wing. Your video showed the "correct downforce car line through a corner" with the car not even near the apex at 5:20, now show me a driver in F1 using your line, purposely creating more distance the car travels through, simoultaneously worsening his laptime. All is cool, but you could have confused a lot of people.

[@TSRB]

I understand how to drive fast not physics sorry. I've already acknowledged my mistake with how downforce is produced on the 2nd most liked comment, which you've presumably already read.

[@DanielHernandez-sq4bp]

Contrary to popular belief, you get the majority of downforces from the bottom suction of the wing producing downforce

[@Oxyenless]

jesus christ i just got slapped in the face when i clicked on this video chill with the editing were not 6

[@TSRB]

you liked your own comment like a 6 year old though

[@Oxyenless]

@@TSRB indeed

[@MrHunterpower]

Why does this guy leave out key information on how something is working and say how he thinks it's working

[@makb_the_striker]

No, I didn't 😉

[@mc_chickenburger2585]

Damn

[@speedtracker9556]

I DON'T CARE. No seriously, I just don't care. Why would I EVER use my downforce wrong? Why do your videos always want me to go faster in racing games by learning about your techniques? Is this a part of the 'How To Touge' Playlist? I don't understand. I'm gonna snap if you say that I am driving wrong in racing games one more time.

[@TSRB]

you're driving wrong in racing games

[@speedtracker9556]

​@@TSRB ALRIGHT THAT'S IT. SEE? YOU MADE ME SNAP. NOW I AM FURIOUS. I AM NOT DRIVING WRONG IN RACING GAMES. WHY SHOULD I LEARN YOUR STUPID TECHNIQUES? LEAVE ME ALONE AND LET ME TEND TO MY RACING. I CAN DO WHATEVER I WANT IN RACING GAMES AND THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT. Also, I wanted to make an L + ratio, but KZbin keeps lagging. But I AM STILL FURIOUS.

[@AustinLZ00]

@@speedtracker9556 yellin' in text is crazy tbh

[@speedtracker9556]

​@@AustinLZ00it is crazy. And also, Crazy? I was crazy once. They locked me in a room. A rubber room. A rubber room with rats. And rats make me crazy.

[@brq44]

@@speedtracker9556 ok calm down

[@El_JFS]

This video and comment section are all confused about the physics of downforce and it’s effects on grip…

[@pr4xzy]

Here

[@_mevt.33]

Thats not how downforce is created.

[@el_minge]

where can i find the car in the beginning

[@Zxcbxbxjdjsxj]

Fucking hell mate your channel is massively underrated! Keep it up! 🫡