You’ve got your first 8 bars! But now what??

The ABA form, or Small Ternary, is your next step into writing longer pieces of music.
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[@RyanLeach]

💪 How to WRITE LONGER MUSIC with the REPS METHOD kzbin.info/www/bejne/qYaWXmeEmbaGd5Y

[@ChristopherSiu]

Definitely one of my favourite forms. Gives the listener enough contrasting material while keeping it structurally sound and concise. Thanks Ryan!

[@composingchef]

I know it's just you judging your competitions, so you can't look at the scores and sound has to be the focus, but if you could only see what I've learned from you. This. This stuff has made my music way better. Every entry, on paper, is beautifully crafted and it's thanks to you. I've even gone through my files and finished many other works. Maybe, with more people, you can have a composition competition where the score is judged. That's where the art and craft of composition truly shines, and, that's what I believe I do well. I'm not good at the DAW yet, but, we will see. Cheers.

[@gavinleepermusic]

Great video! I think the Octopath stuff is excellent material to illustrate this concept :)

[@unexpected8166]

Yes! Please do more videos on form.

[@HeavenestStCyr]

Tips: Reverse direction of A theme Pull small fragments from A theme as similarities create a sense of cohesiveness. Start on a different note from the tonic or starting note of A theme

[@TurdMcNugget]

Thanks for your content, Ryan. I often feel like I learn more from you than I did from my college composition professors. Sad, but true.

[@mazetoeden9334]

soooo helpful

[@tristanpaxton51]

I love discussion of form. Especially on the level of sentences and periods. Really enjoying the channel!

[@tysoncazier]

Great video, thanks for making this Ryan!

[@1warmday1]

Always insightful! Thanks Ryan!

[@rodterrell304]

Well done , thanks again Ryan

[@gonzalozubillaga9341]

Loved it Thank you Ryan!

[@danilgogin4405]

Your videos is so good! Thank u for them

[@MrKeithterrett]

Another great video, very helpful indeed Ryan.

[@VeganKebabDoRuky]

Thanks for making these videos, they're always very helpful and concise 😌🙏

[@renaldodavis7372]

Great video Ryan! Thanks!

[@jjrussell]

Very nice. I have so many 8 bar ideas lying around in cubase. Gotta go back and visit some of those.

[@DTux5249]

Now here's a question: have you successfully revisited any of those?

[@OliKember]

This was most helpful! I would love a full course on this topic some day. ;)

[@shaolin1derpalm]

Wow. Your explanations are so clear and logical.

[@anled.composition]

Really enjoying your videos on structure ! The examples are really useful. Discovered only lately how fundamental this topic is. Looking forward to seeing videos about how to merge such small forms into a longer one. Studying structure in John Williams' pieces could be really interesting as well.

[@CarlosMartinez-gr1rp]

Fantastic video, really helpful !

[@timorgr]

I love your videos Ryan! They cut right to the chase and are very practical. Thank you so much for your insights!

[@lukasgraesslin]

Thanks, this is a great followup/explanation to your ABA Octopath Traveler video! Also thanks in general for showing the great soundtrack of Octopath Traveler, I would have never checked that out if it wasn't for your videos.

[@SoraiaLMotta]

it really got me thinking about the importance of the cadences. thanks

[@matteocastellan]

Great material! Inspiring

[@GnuSCello]

Great video Ryan!

[@RyanLeach]

Thanks!

[@karim0302]

I really enjoy your videos on structure and form, so I'd like to see you dive a bit deeper! I think Mark Richard's paper on film music themes could be a good source if you decide to.

[@quintongordon6024]

Love the video. Would always love another video on transitions though.

[@ToyKeeper]

Usually I have about a minute worth of material and need to learn more about orchestration, arrangement, and production so I can turn it into a full song. Sometimes it's just A and B parts, but more often it'll be ABC or even 0ABCD0 or something. ... and I almost never use periods in music. Each section ends with an interruption into the next section, pulling things forward, and usually the only resolution is the very first note of part A.

[@paulhickey7005]

Hi Ryan; Would you consider creating a video about the double period? Thanks again for the clearest explanations I've heard, concerning different musical forms.

[@raulbondarev1160]

Thank you, Ryan. It was really informative and usuful)

[@fattmusiek5452]

Always learning something new from great videos like these. What I find great is that you use theory vernacular/terminology, and I've needed to brush up on it, esp. regarding cadences. Ps. Would love to see FF7's OST as one to explore and break down- that's just my wishful thinking. lol. (If you were going to use a game or series for reference again, that is). Thanks again!

[@craia25]

videos like this are really amazing....

[@askbrettmanning]

Fantastic channel. Been watching for several days. trying to get ready to create, but I want be as equipped as possible. Thank you Ryan. You content is concise and exceptional.

[@RyanLeach]

Thanks! Watch everything twice but don't let me be an excuse to procrastinate on writing!

[@alexchristodoulou]

Great video Ryan. I would object a bit on how much the B theme should be related to the A. Doing tricks like inversions, mirrorings etc on the A theme would lead more to a A’ section (development) rather than a B. I think the general perception is that B should be contrasting and self-contained as material, so that it really allows for the return to A to give the feeling of returning home from somewhere distant.

[@johnh14159]

I've just noticed in Cyrus the Scholar that the entire piece is structurally very similar to the sentence form but with eight bars in each phrase instead of four. The first eight bars is equivalent to the main idea in the sentence form, with a continuation in the next few bars, with a cadence at the end. This gives Cyrus the Scholar the advantages of the sentence form while having the feeling of an A and B section. Thanks for posting, I would have never realised this otherwise.

[@cristianlopez7581]

Love this channel, that's all I have to say

[@midasthehighest]

7:59 that part is so beautiful my God 🤯

[@waltz251]

Perfect timing! I've just watched your ABA form vid and now it feels like a demonstration and explanation two-part video

[@RyanLeach]

Nice! The followup to that one has been a long time coming

[@krystimusik757]

What about an orchestration? Should we keep it consistant in a section and change it in B section? How much change is too much?

[@RyanLeach]

I think a break in section is a great opportunity for a change in color or texture. Generally the smaller the form/piece the less drastic the contrast

[@ShaharHarshuv]

You videos about forms made me realize I need to put more effort into studying this super important topic, so I started reading "analyzing classical form", even though it's pretty long and firmly rooted in classical music analysis, it's been very interesting. Any other books you might recommend?

[@RyanLeach]

ACF is of course my favorite. I like the Cedric Thorpe Davie a lot as well, much more concise. Another I read long ago that left an impression is The Thematic Process in Music by Rudolph Reti, although it's been a long time so I don't quite remember the details. Also I think it's our of print and hard to get a hold of..

[@ShaharHarshuv]

@@RyanLeach nice. I had a feeling you might be basing some of you videos on ACF after reading the chapter on the sentence form 😅

[@alexlarocca3065]

Ryan, long time subscriber first time commenter here. Do you have a resource for all these octopath charts or do you do them by ear?

[@RyanLeach]

Just by ear, so there's certainly room for error!

[@markwrede8878]

Multiply your theme by itself ... or by another theme.

[@stormRed]

Thanks for using Octopath music, a very underrated series IMO. Incredibly moving soundtrack.

[@waldoadams1611]

Can you do a video on writing a piece with the full blues form (intro/verse/chorus/verse/chorus/middle 8/chorus/outro = AA'BA'BCBB)'?

[@antoniosgeorgou9318]

Thanks

[@RyanLeach]

Thank you!

[@nickmuzekari6124]

Great video. Wondering, do you always craft your compositions with a melody first and then harmonize?

[@RyanLeach]

Usually but not always. And many times it's a few steps forward with melody, a few with harmony, back to melody etc

[@nickmuzekari6124]

@@RyanLeach Got you, thanks 👍

[@tobbebergman7583]

I feel like I own this guy a million for his great vids ! Whish I knew his bank account !

[@gaopinghu7332]

To steal from him? When someone says this, it becomes very suspicious

[@1three378]

Hey Ryan! You're a great inspiration for me and all mountain bikers of my generation. Why did you quit?

[@RyanLeach]

Maybe you are thinking of Ryan Leech with two "e"s

[@flix9267]

What function is Eb in D in Therion and Dbmaj in C in Ophelia? Does anybody know this or send me a Link to a video that explains those chords? Are those some kind of Substitute Dominants?

[@RyanLeach]

Think of them both as bVI chords being borrowed from the parallel minor. Ophelia is in the key of F, so the parallel minor is F minor and Db is bVI. The Therion one is a bit more complex and I think would be even more confusing in a comment, I'd just say research modal interchange and borrowed chords

[@flix9267]

@@RyanLeach Thanks a lot! 🙌

[@Dovith]

Just a question, if you are basing your B section on material from the A section wouldn't that be some sort of binary?

[@mathewowen3506]

How do you turn small ternary into an even bigger piece?

[@gaopinghu7332]

Sorry if I'm late, but the Sonata form is a possibility. Inside the Score has got a great video about it

[@PedalingAdventures]

👍

[@waltz251]

7:57 doesn't it modulate to the key of Gm (ii)?

[@RyanLeach]

Gm is the relative minor of Bb, so if you wanted to see it that way you could. But to my ear the Gm sounds like vi, and the half cadence in bar 17 has me expecting a resolution to Bb.

[@colinliaubass1712]

Where's the stem of the first note of Cyrus, the Scholer v19?

[@RyanLeach]

yea that's weird

[@colinliaubass1712]

@@RyanLeach is the first note of v19 of Cyrus, the Scholer supposed to be a whole note?

[@RyanLeach]

It's a dotted quarter the stem just didn't render for some reason

[@autisticcormorant6881]

First

[@hoon_sol]

Depends: if you're Bach, you weave it into a timeless magnificent masterpiece; if you're not, you end up with something that's either extremely boring and repetitive, or something that's unconnected and awful to listen to.