You vs Dealer: How to get a problem car fixed for free | Auto Expert John Cadogan

Save thousands on any new car (Australia-only): autoexpert.com...
OLIGHT DISCOUNT! (These are awesome.)
bit.ly/3zF5hCQ
12% off: Use code AEJC
Help support my independent reporting, securely, via Patreon: www.patreon.co...
Yesterday I did 'why warranty doesn't matter' and many of you asked me exactly how to advocate for a fair go at the dealership, if your car is defective and you're not getting the support you need (or the support you think you need). This report is the roadmap to achieving that - or at least how I think you should play it.
Podcast (audio-only version, for listening in the car, etc.): anchor.fm/auto...
Save thousands on any new car (Australia-only): autoexpert.com...
AutoExpert discount roadside assistance package:
247roadservice...
Did you like this report? You can help support the channel, securely via PayPal: www.paypal.com...

[@copuis]

Hi john, I would like to share a brief story of my parents dealings with a dealer of late (whatever the core issue is, it has yet to be solved) my mother recently got her first ever brand new car, at age 56, she finally got a non family hauling car, that wasnt a hand me down, or a decade old 2nd car, a car for her brand new kia stonic! and she was pleased as punch....till the odd things started to happen, like the ABS light flickering on and off, and a warning about the auto brake took it to the dealer, the service manager who, without batting an eyelid, or plugging the car in, said, it would be safe to drive, and just bring it in for its first service and they will look at it it was 3 weeks old at this point... the first service the light was off, she went around the corner, the light came on, she went back, and was told (after a different tech plugged it in) it wasnt safe to drive, and they would need to replace a sensor, that took some time they fixed that, then they did an update, and the start stop, well, stopped, the long and short of it was, many trips in, the service manager claiming she was driving it wrong, too much, or not enough, there was back and forth about trickle charging over night to fix the problem etc, after a few months, both my mother and father were in tear and deeply stressed, dad had written an 8 page letter that he was going to send to the ACCC every time they had been down there, they were treated like dottery old fools, (my father, only freshly into his 70's, and 30's years in the army, OAM military division, and a JP) and my mother just over the hill in her mid 50's this whole time the service manager was duck shoving, and saying things like, we have to wait on head office etc etc etc I, thinking, if this needs to go down the lemon law route, (as the issue with the stop start had still not gotten a cause or fix) noted a large amount of unrecorded notes, with nil invoices just saying "vehicle check" and nothing noting the issue. one call to KIA (131 kia) a customer rep go on the phone named greg, listen to my mother near in tears over the matter, did something no one at the dealer had...took ownership, called back while the car is still having whatever demon is deep inside it removed, the service manager was nice as punch. KIA as a brand was very close to having (albeit one couple) people tarnished mentally about them, all over a dealer (who, i might add, used to be a holden dealer, like, i know many dealers got a raw deal from GM, but they could have left their customer service culture at the door) shes got a loan car, and gets updated often (without having to chase for info) so while i most certainly to think you are extremely right in regards to shopping with a brand that has a culture worth a damn, it might also be a good reminder that sometimes a dealers culture doesnt reflect the brands culture, and that brand will really show its worth in those cases

[@jameshamilton533]

Kia is awesome. As you say, sometimes the dealers aren’t great though, hence a call to head office.

[@axelneumann9224]

Name and shame the dealer! If they lost face and money flying the Holden flag, the last thing they want to do is lose customers to a very up and coming brand. As it happens, my local Kia, ex Holden dealer also USED to sell Honda! Plus Mahindra! Speak of Bad Karma!

[@craigstephenmcdonald9915]

John sometime ago you helped a young lady from Darwin NT with her ford vehicle related to this very topic. Both her dad ( Melbourne based) and me ( Perth based) thankyou very much.

[@Hydrogenblonde]

I sold a car to a guy that said the car pulled badly to the left. This surprised me as anytime I drove it it would drive in a straight line with no deviation at all even if the road had a large crown. I went for a drive with him and he drove with the spoke of the steering wheel turned to the left so that the spoke was almost vertical. I said to him "the car is not pulling to the left you are steering it to the left". He could not grasp this concept. Apparently his old car was so worn out and unroadworthy you had to turn it left to go straight. Another psychiatric case.

[@nevillegreg1]

I bought a brand new lemon HD Sportster in 2004, the model had a number of significant upgrades from previous years, including a rubber mounted motor, oval pistons from Buel, new brakes, etc. I took it back 13 times in the first 11 months for warranty work, including warped rocker covers causing oil leaks from the top end of the motor, faulty ignition coil, and lots more. I can say, after the 13th warranty claim, it never missed a beat. I got lucky - eventually. After 6 months of ownership, the bike club I was a member of at the time presented me with an [actual] lemon and a certificate of lemonhood at our monthly club meeting.

[@DashCamOwnersAustralia]

My handy tip for Land Rover was avoid the dealer and just find an independent who knows what they are doing. Hope this helps.

[@AutoExpertJC]

I think that's pretty good advice - if you failed the earlier test and bought one (or you just fell in love)...

[@GuitarsRockForever]

John, exactly, don't buy one in the first place. Not only this country, check what happened to US, people getting screwed there too for buying JLR.

[@AutoExpertJC]

TFL Studios and their hilarious Defender ownership experience...

[@Low760]

About 2014 I witnessed a D3 disco getting a new V6 Diesel at an independent specialist. The previous owner drove it as a farm vet? So the body lift off had a lot of dirt etc. But it was up to its third engine. They had killed the first one at 80k, no servicing, followed by the second one at 160? I think it was at which point it was sold. Not exactly great owners but there are people out there like that and it's scary

[@GuitarsRockForever]

@@AutoExpertJC Yes, watched that. Even scarier if you consider they are kind of famous/dig deal customer. Normal "nobody", the dealer would happily throw them under bus and five the finger.

[@351tgv]

A 4.9L carby V8 (lets use Falcon so up to 1983) back in those days was running on 103 RON Super leaded fuel would make 344Nm at 3,200rpm with peak power of 140kW at 4,500rpm, today an i4 2.0 turbo petrol on 98 RON makes 387Nm at 3,100rpm and 183kW at 6,000rpm ... it's called technology, amazing stuff.

[@AutoExpertJC]

Totally, dude. Rose coloured glasses required for the rear-view mirror.

[@partymanau]

Yeah but doesn't sound as good.

[@351tgv]

@@partymanau - depends though, some people like bangs and pops from there fast 4 turbo like the ST/ RS or N , some prefer near silence.

[@louisepeacock3953]

I’m loving my brand new Forester. Thanks for putting me in touch with the broker. Travis was great!!

[@AutoExpertJC]

Thank you for letting me know, Louise.

[@77gravity]

Great choice. I have a 2007 Forester, 200,000 km, still in great condition, just gave it to my daughter as her first car. I really enjoy driving it, even today.

[@ridingwithpat]

Thank you John, I don't think this is a message that can be driven home too hard. I took away from this the importance of dealing with reputable manufacturers and dealers. Support matters, cars are complex and expensive to repair. I was really happy that Mitsubishi replaced the traction battery in my Outlander PHEV without any argument even though I purchased the car used. They also replaced a leaking tail light. Gotta be happy with that.

[@scoobeydoooo]

Long time subscriber and probably my first comment ever. But briefly, I have a few laugh out loud moments listening to you talk every single time and take on board the free knowledge as some reference. Keep up the great work mate.

[@garfieldsmith332]

I got the check engine light on my Elantra. Called the dealer service department and booked an appointment. When I went in they had the service sheet all ready for me to sign. There would be a $ 129 tech fee. I had no issue with that. One hour later they handed me the keys and the service sheet. ignition coil replaced under warranty, technical fee waived. They also did their multi-point inspection at no charge. Checked all fluids, checked brake wear, road tested the vehicle, lubed the hinges, and cleaned off the backup camera (which was clean anyway); and attached the inspection check list to the service sheet. I have dealt with this dealer for 13 years and they are always a 10 when it comes to service and customer satisfaction.

[@oldcynic6964]

Out of interest, who is the dealer?

[@ArashFallah]

I find that being reasonable and logical is the most important part. I know a guy with a worn engine block keep complaining that when he bought his car, it said that he needs to change his engine oil every 15000km or 18 months. But all he did with his car was 8 kilometers daily and half of it in below zero conditions, which the vehicle manual clearly defined as highly undesirable conditions that warrants earlier oil changes. But he kept banging on about the promise of 15000 km oil changes.

[@govshill4557]

Hallelujah John. I worked in IT as a field technician for many years. Intermittent problems were the bane of my existence. And customers with attitude? Man. I told one guy that "I didn't cause your problem. I'm here to fix your problem. I'm going to leave now. I will return to fix your problem when your attitude improves." You don't need that shit from every person who has a lost document, or a printer that ate a sheet of paper.

[@govshill4557]

@@doctorstrange367 Thanks Doc. Luckily I got out of that industry. It's pretty awful when everyone you meet during your working day has a problem you didn't cause, but you have to fix. It must be the same for doctors. All those sick people.

[@dougstubbs9637]

Best was going for a ride with the owner, and then the bloke suddenly says… Ya hear that? Mate, that rattle right then…. There it is again…. And all I could hear is normally heard inside some twenty year old shitbox. …..yea, mate, just turn up the rock box…. To all those tight arsed owners who encounter ‘heaps of issues’, f**k it off and buy something new.

[@dougstubbs9637]

Also, sourcing parts for a twenty year shitbox. Spend a couple of hours on the dog and bone, not invoiced time, and the cranky old c**t doesn’t even bother to say thanks. And in my best customer service voice, I then say, F**k off and lose my number.

[@peterwilliamson9600]

@@davexb6595 I have never understood why some people are like that. I have only had it happen to me once, but it was very entertaining to see the look on their face as I drove out the yard, reassuring when my boss backed me when I got back to the workshop, and satisfying to see them eat humble pie when I went back again to do the job, days later.

[@zakuraayame5091]

I suppose there are a ton of parts swappers out there, but one would hope most are great technicians and have a bit of diagnostic efficiency. But even the best aren't magicians nor clairvoyant, so writing down and recording as much information as you can. The number of blinks a dash light does makes a difference, so a video recording of that would help, and it is more reliable for them than just your words. (South Main Auto LLC channel as an example of the type of shop many of us wish we had around the corner.)

[@chrisso4744]

This is so true in so many parts. I've worked at a Hyundai dealership for the last 20 years as a mechanic and the last 12 years as a workshop foreman, where I have had to deal with customers first hand on numerous cases. A majority of customers have been understanding as the control systems in vehicles has gotten more and more intricate. but there are a lot of self righteous dickhead customers that wont listen or take your word for it even if you know the car inside out. We always tell customers with intermittent faults to video, take photos, right shit down and more so, if the car starts faulting if they can come straight to us and demonstrate the fault or leave it running so we can plug in and see what the car tells us. Society has become so much worse since social media has almost full control of a lot of people.

[@tomnewham1269]

But doesn’t the car store a fault code until it is erased?

[@chrisso4744]

@@tomnewham1269 not always.

[@kyawlinhtoo]

Mate. I have a brand new i30 sedan cn7 2021 and ecu issues p600 code, Hyundai says software update coming in this month is this known issue? Engine stall upon coldmstart

[@nigelcox1451]

Made me remember an incident in the late 70s. 15 minutes before closing, a guy stormed into service department reception, pushed past other customers, banged the counter, and demanded to see the service manager. Difficult, as he was on holiday. Man does not believe us. So that wasted a little time, before we got anywhere near identifying a problem. Seems his wife had picked up her car from a service, got about 30 miles away, towards an important evening event, and broken down. He expected us to drop everything, and take her a loan car, as well as recover the broken one. Strangely, her name did not ring any bells. It took several minutes more to get the make and model from him, as he had no idea of the registration number. (No computers in those days.) It then transpired that she was driving a Mercedes. We were a BL/Rover dealer and had not seen any Mercedes for months. Had she perhaps visited the Mercedes dealer, the one about 75 metres along the road? Oops! Now past closing time. So even if a dispute is likely to get confrontational, make sure you are confronting the right people.

[@dxbmick]

Re, don't get the dealer to fix it, go independent. Fully agree. Wife's car had a flat battery after not driving it for a while. New battery but the transmission went poopy in its trousers. Dealer -- Six months wait for $15,000 installed, new transmission. Independent -- $350 firmware re-flash. No more problem.

[@nickhellen6303]

Friggin’ great to see that happy smiling acerbic wit back! THAT’S what we love. Feel you’ve been a bit less smiley of late.

[@kmac4671]

Do the right thing by a customer and he/she will tell two others. Do the wrong thing by a customer and he/she will tell ten others.

[@steveoffer2917]

I would expect a record of a major event that lead to limp home mode to be in the diagnostic data. I wonder who owns that data and if a dealership would reveal diagnostic data. A good argument exists for consumer access to diagnostic data under "right to repair" currently under consideration.

[@David_Johnson_]

Great advice as ever, John. I've been on both ends of this scenario... First off, I was a service advisor for a Mitsubishi dealership, we had a bloke with his 93 Pajero GLX complaining of a weird noise under brakes. He described it as being like a grinding noise. Our workshop foreman took it for a spin, couldn't find anything. Had the technician take the wheels off, inspect everything, drive it - no issues. He comes to collect the car, I explain we weren't able to reproduce the fault or find anything out of place, he demands someone goes with him and he'll demonstrate. Our workshop foreman goes with him, turns out he's braking so hard every time he uses the brakes that he's activating the ABS. Literally every time. Wasn't happy at being told that it was how he was operating the vehicle which was the issue. Next, we had a BA falcon which had developed brake shudder (surprising, I know...) for the third time whilst still under warranty. Booked it in, checked with the dealer that it was being seen before the end of the warranty and that it wouldn't be an issue. All confirmed as good. I'll note that we were the second owner of the car, from just over a year old and about 25,000 km. I work away, so my wife took the car in on the day, they looked at it and did the job - apparently all four discs needed replacing, along with new pads - when she picks it up she's informed that it's in excess of $800. Not wanting to argue there, she pays and leaves, but says she's sure I'll be in to talk to someone. On my return home, I absolutely go to the dealership, and ask why we were charged when my owner's manual clearly says that the day the job was done was two days before the warranty expiry going by the date of registration noted. The explanation was that there had been an error and that "in the system" the sale/registration date was actually a week BEFORE the date in the book, so this job was outside the warranty period. Even though by only a few days, but the booking was made before their supposed warranty end date. I asked why nobody checked that before simply going ahead with $800 worth of work - not even calling my wife - and was informed that it had to be done anyway, the car "wouldn't have been allowed to leave" with the brakes in that condition. Which was rubbish, as I'd had the car serviced by a local mechanic only two weeks before, with the view to finding any potential warranty items. They noted the shudder, but that all of the pads were less than half worn and nowhere near replacement. Seeing this from today, I should have gone to Ford and pleaded my case to them. The legislation wasn't in place at the time for consumer law to beat them into submission, but I might have got somewhere. Oh well, I know I'm never taking any Ford I ever own again to a dealer unless it's for recalls and warranty only.

[@SteveMack]

GREAT advice, AS ALWAYS, and Bloody BRILLIANT idea about videoing the problem!! - I'd go so far to add, also in the same unbroken video; do a close up of the mileage reading, and even getting out of the car and videoing the car itself, showing the number plate also, so the evidence is there time-stamped so to speak, of when the problem shown was occurring, and that the footage IS actually of the vehicle in question. Case in point, my other half's Mazda 3 reverse camera display, which from around 20,000km, started intermittently showing the displayed image breaking up (which she told them about at the next service, which they could find no fault in when presented to them) but of course as I've reminded her - intermittent problems are the worst to try and diagnose! It's started to do the same thing more often, so this time we'll make sure she has video evidence for them to at least make a start on the process of elimination (hopefully!) THANKS John!👍

[@partymanau]

Intermittents follow Murphy's 4th law. "Problem won't occur while being observed". Closely related to the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.

[@k9-unit-australia275]

Subaru are the best after sales service ive ever had. They are brilliant.

[@stevo184]

The two best times you will ever have with a Range Rover is the day that you got it and the day that you got rid of it

[@michaelhart5886]

Just like boat ownership

[@akeithwill33088]

@@michaelhart5886 beat me to it.

[@donbrashsux]

Gospel

[@romanlewandowski9616]

You are so right with your comments, always be respectful and and most time you will get a good 👍 out come.

[@AutoExpertJC]

I think that's true. I get that it's very frustrating at times for customers, however.

[@TonyRule]

Unless they happen to be unscrupulous, in which case you may get taken for a ride. You need to be firm, but fair. That's where the self psych evaluation comes in. But unscrupulous car dealers - c'mon, who ever heard of such a thing? Perish the thought...

[@DaveMuller]

"Fuck it as far off as it may be fucked" Yes, thank you for the laugh I had this E46 328Ci and god damn did I love that car. It was the most amazing drive and just beautiful, but damn was it a lemon of a vehicle. I finally came to my senses and decided to just drive it into the ground and stop fixing the constant stream of things that broke. It was a total junk heap by the end and saved a lot of money, and when it completely died in 2019, I gave to an enthusiast to rework into a track car.

[@byronnightingale5550]

One of the best videos on the Auto Expert channel.

[@indetailcarcaresolutions3770]

An interesting topic John. My friend got retrenched after many years in his job and received a healthy payout. Paid off the mortgage and then went poking for the perfect family cruiser. He, 196cm, he junior 192cm. Mazda CX-5 was out and he didn’t want a 7 seater with 2 kids so no CX-9. He ended up in a Nissan X-trail diesel manual as it had to be manual. In week 1 he is travelling with family down the M7 in Sydney which was about 3 years old at this stage when the GPS announced he was travelling through paddock as and needed to follow the selected route. Makes it home, calls Nissan and is told he has the latest maps and an upgrade, when it comes out, will be $595. With time on his hands due to no work and no need to, he wears bounced front the dealer to Nissan to ACCC to Fair Trading and back again a number of times. Nissan finally offered him an up to date Tom Tom to stick on his windscreen. If he’d wanted wires hanging off his windscreen he wouldn’t have bought a car with GPS installed in it was his reply. He got his day in court. He was stunned when the Nissan rep he had been dealing with turned up in person. He gave the judge a 31 page, well researched and written document. He was complimented by the judge on his thoroughness and researched information. The outcome: the judge found against Nissan in my mates flavour. They had to pay $395 so when could buy a Tom Tom to stick on his windscreen. It also came out that Nissan had no intention of providing upgrades for the maps in that car as they had changed map suppliers whose maps wouldn’t work in the old system he had!! Needless to say he will tell you to never buy a Nissan.. Lloyd

[@Roger_Gadd]

I have a Subaru XV Premium. One evening, shortly after I bought it, I was disconcerted to find that the Steering Responsive Headlights were not turning with the steering wheel. It took me a minute or two to figure out they had to be set in low beam mode for SRH to function. Duh!

[@RealButcher]

LOL, Talking about the olden / golden days. I remember our old Volkswagen Beetle from 1968, with a carburetor with a bi-metal for the regulating of the choke / gas valve. That car always ran, always. But always 1 liter on 10 kilometer, no matter what you did. But way more if you drove fast. Even, blocked the choke-bi-metal thing, to stop the overuse of gas, but then it did not run good, when cold. Damn. Loved that car, but what a guzzler.

[@norsehall309]

Hi John, l have always bought my new vehicles at my local county dealership for the past 40 odd years mainly Holden, Toyota, Isuzu, and have had a few warranty issues and recalls over the years, one question because my dealer lives in a small community and went to school with most of his costumer to try and short change or rip off a costumer it would be suicide, the bush telegraph would have him hung drawn and quartered, that's probably why l have never had a problem with warranty claims, dose it make a difference City or County dealership, cheers mate, Neil.

[@grimreaper6112]

no they dont give a fuck when the thing is out the door

[@davidbrayshaw3529]

Shonksters exist everywhere but they don't last in small country towns for very long. I'm in a small town with two car dealerships and they both enjoy very good reputations and they both appear to be doing good trade. You've got to be in it for the long haul in small communities or your toast, whatever your trade.

[@sandybarnes887]

What's with these people and costumes?

[@jackstein1171]

Great work. In fact this video could be considered a public service

[@HypocriticYT]

Intermittent problem should be renamed for vehicle since they only go away when at the mechanics. I hate limp mode, older cars never had that, they kept going or they fail spectacularly

[@lesmansom7817]

Nice one John, Back in the 80s I was mechanican for a Holden dealership in WA that supplied the plod north of the town with their highway patrol vehicles. We had one jackbooted tosspot complain that the commodore was unstable at 180kph. Sorry sir, all the testing at legal road speeds indicate that the vehicle performs within the constraints of the legal requirements. What a palaver, he blew his top. End result was he wrote a waiver for me to exceed the speed limit to find the problem. Took me 6 hours and 400km.😎 Along the way I scared the hell out of all my mates with the sirens and whistles. To much fun. Problem? Jackbooted knuckle head had used excessive amounts of tyre goop in the tyres. Centrifugal force and all that. Not covered by warranty. Boom😎👍🤘 Most fun I’ve had not racing motorcycles 😎

[@barryandrew]

I would pick an independent mechanic over a dealership every time for most problems. They usually cost less, are more experienced, and appreciate the custom more than a large dealership employing apprentices to fatten the bottom line.

[@greyphantome2617]

Sorry to say that I had the same lemon experience on a brand new bmw from the very first year of ownership, it continued to be a lemon until I sold it after 8 years, what a feeling it was. Never to the brand again.

[@dieplxxx]

Hey John, long-time viewer first-time commenter here. I recently had an issue with a 2021 Mercedes-Benz c200 where the check engine light would come on and the car would stall and die out repeatedly. The car belonged to my sister and is brand new under warranty with less than 2k on the odometer. It has been to the dealer three times already first they thought it was a vacuum leak, then they changed the mass airflow sensor and now they are certain that the wiring is defective and that changing it will fix the problem. My sister doesn't want the car anymore and the dealer said that they are sad to hear that and offered to extend the warranty for a year before telling us to skedaddle out of here if we don't like it. They also refused to provide any paperwork that says that the car has been in the dealership for repair citing the "data protection act". This is in Kuwait and the laws are ancient and in favor of the dealerships. I have never seen such insolence and arrogance from a car dealership. I only needed to vent but if you have any advice I would appreciate it. Thank you.

[@marccatamio]

Thanks John.. Imma show this to the dealer next time i gonna make a warranty claim 😁

[@AutoExpertJC]

Prohibited viewing in dealerships...

[@ScottMurrayBestFamilyCars]

Do you not know the Auto Expert origins story?

[@ronmasing4918]

John, thanks , I have been chasing limp mode for 32 years on BMW 750il,

[@AutoExpertJC]

Personally, I have never been in limp mode...

[@ronmasing4918]

@@AutoExpertJC John , it's ok just my issue couldn't be solved at this point in time by anyone including me

[@TonyRule]

@@ronmasing4918 r/woosh And you just found KZbin yesterday?

[@user-kd5br7sw2s]

I have a 2016 Hyundai Accent that I purchased new from the local dealer (I’m in north Brisbane) that from day one had an intermittent AM radio interference occur where occasionally over the space of a few minutes the AM band would devolve into a “warbling sound”. It wasn’t the usual sounding AM interference you get when you go past high voltage or similar sounding electrical interference. Each time I took it for a service I told the dealer, and after each service they would say things like we updated radio firmware, or it didn’t occur for them blah blah blah. Basically this wasn’t a crucial issue to me, i didn’t drive the car (it’s my wife’s drive) it was more along the lines of a “niggle” so I wasn’t really pushing it. Anyway the warranty was only 3 years, but last year I had to drive it for a few days and the issue occurred a few times while I drove it, and then it started to piss me off. So the next time it occurred I videoed the issue occurring, and the video showed the warbling building up, to the moment I switched the engine off but kept the ignition on,so it was clearly apparent the issue was related to engine interference,not some “external forces”. So then what I did was emailed the dealer AND copied Hyundai Australia’s head office. The next day I got a call from the dealer that they will order a replacement radio, for free even though it was 1 year past it’s warranty expiry, and within two weeks the radio had been replaced, and it’s been working properly ever since. Moral of the story, do what John says and VIDEO ANY ISSUE, but also copy in the manufacturer as well, because when ever you want someone to do something for you, if someone else who may be a “higher authority” is copied in, then there’s one more reason it can’t be brushed aside, and that’s because a 3rd party has “visibility” of it now.

[@HypocriticYT]

I’ve noticed for some time now that John has become much more civil and I’m not sure if this is for KZbin and monetization, aging or just decided to stop drinking. Either way I find the channel quite good and refined if you can use that word and his name in the same sentence? Enjoying every video!!

[@Pretzil43]

My only question is why, in 2021, do new cars not have the spare 100kb to store whatever error it read, is the silicon chip shortage that bad? I bet if I used the wrong drive mode to tow a trailer or something it would record that and void my warranty

[@RobertSmith-di5ll]

As a retired lawyer, your advice is spot on

[@peterjulianphotos4659]

Lemon of the Century - Ford Mondeo Sedan Series 1 Ghia, worst car ever owned. The dealer saw us coming a laughed and laughed and laughed.

[@brentonl1746]

Always catch more flies with Jam than Vinegar!

[@jimfatyakmcgregor8867]

I have been in that exact situation John when the wife and I stupidly purchased a new Holden Viva. I was very patient at first and tried to refrain from being a cock, but in the end I did lose the plot when they wanted to charge me for a new computer. Told them I was going down the road to Ford to buy a car from them. And ended up buying a Nissan.

[@mrgoodwrench8181]

Great article.

[@joeyl.2081]

As a Mazda owner I am regularly searching for news on how ACCC vs Mazda Australia is going. I've found nothing since November 2019 with Mazda's statement intending to defend in court. Do you know anything more on this John?

[@user-xe4bf4gs1o]

Our 2017 Mazda CX5 has just had its' 60,000 km service. To our horror, the service department at our local dealership, where we bought and have loyally serviced the vehicle, informed us it was unsafe to drive as the differential had failed!!! at 60,000 kms. Surely having an undrivable CX5 at 60,000 kms is unacceptable.

[@tonymarkham4045]

Good talk and informative as usual. If I drop the oil in my MUX at 5,000 k’s can that void warranty? I suppose it is a stupid question? As I change my own fuel filter as they only want it when light comes on etc etc. Anyway, a little chin wag is always ok in my world. Be good.

[@TaylerMade]

took a mazda in for a service in the early 80's (nz). sparks plugs oil filter etc. picked it up and it had a new water pump etc etc. the parts prices were double what they sold them for in their own parts dept. i told them i would pay for what i had asked done, with parts price the same as the parts dept and no more than that. they tried to sue me and the judge made them do what i wanted as i couldn't be charged for work that i hadn't asked for. however, the asshole judge said "when i take my car in for servicing and they find a problem i expect them to fix it" its no wonder servicing depts just see you as a bank deposit. i never ever use a service dept, but i do have an excellent workshop that i can take my vehicle to.

[@HypocriticYT]

I hate paying for parts and labour that doesn’t fix the problem. In fact you don’t have to pay but you usually find out it’s still not working after you’ve paid the bill

[@lindseyhatfield9017]

excellent mate, I used to be a computer and control systems support engineer and while the result is obvious the cause may never be so. Like why your wife is not talking to you, you know the result, but not the cause. Computers are easier !

[@AutoExpertJC]

Computers are much easier than wives. (I've had six of them - wives, not computers.)

[@michaelrussell6661]

@@AutoExpertJC A glutton for punishment or did it just take you a long time to learn what not to do :D OR just maybe you enjoyed the pain.

[@maxtivey32]

My car dates from 2002 (and I love it), but sadly no-one but me is going to fix it for free. However, I can live with that - having a mechanical background I do all the minor stuff myself, and I have a good mechanic who does the big jobs and major electronics problems for me (at a reasonable cost, of course). :)

[@americarsqueensland1667]

Now John, saying a points ignition system is unreliable is just not true. Reliability wise, a points ignition is the most reliable providing you do the scheduled servicing & you can actually see when any parts are worn. If you experience a rare failure it's quick & easy to diagnose & repair, even on the roadside. With electronic ignitions, components will eventually fail & there is no way to prevent that or determine when it might happen, especially on ageing, higher mileage vehicles.

[@josefkrakel9136]

I will take fuel injection (with a good ecu) over carburetors any day

[@351tgv]

depends on what type of fuel injection though? are we talking bout TBi? PFI, MPEFI, MPESFI, direct injection? Liquid Phase Injection (for LPG) or now the combo MPEFI/DI versions (low revs its MPEFI high revs it's Direct Injection) ?

[@btnetro]

Good old cars :) I love the new electronics debate. I for example prefer to replace a faulty oil pressure sensor every year than not have one like in the good old days when it was running low on oil without any information so tay tay engine.

[@johnpoot725]

Idiot lights were a good idea, but not so err.. flash when people didn't know about the test circuit as detailed in the handbook. Idiot lights were even better when connected in parallel to a LOUD buzzer to be sure to be sure. Still bugger-all oil and water level lights/warnings on most machines. MALS policy number 236, of course.

[@JohnDoe-oy5sw]

I brought a 2020 santa fe with your recommendation in mind. The front passenger seat recliner switch has failed and subsequently the seat ended up fully down and thus rendering it and the rear seat unusable. The selling dealer suggested I try going elsewhere as they could not fit the car in for three weeks! I have since had another dealership get the seat up but still not reclining forward or back. I rang Hyundai customer care and their response provided no help to getting things moving along quicker. Be interesting had it been the drivers seat. Not a great experience for a car under a year old. Just saying..

[@tomnewham1269]

Hi John. That story that you told about the punter who’s car pulled to the left was hilarious. Just a video suggestion. I read that a few Japanese car makers and BMW have settled out of court in regards to the Takata recall while VW went to court and won their case. What gives?

[@stevenbest1550]

Good afternoon John. Thank you for another informative video, I am always excited to learn all I can from your videos. I was wondering if you may be able to provide some insight into the pros and cons of installing a lift kit onto a vehicle like a duel cab Ute, if you have any information WRT to this matter I would love to hear your advice please. I have a 2013 Nissan Navara D40 that I recently had a 2 inch lift kit installed into IOT to gain better ground clearance when I am off the tarmac, as the factory suspension did not comply with the M.A.L.S program. I am very interested to know if I have inadvertently placed undue stress or pressure onto any of the other components with in the drive train. The facility where I had the work done assured me that the installation of a lift kit was safe and risk free, however I would greatly appreciate your insight and advice WRT to this matter. Many thanks , Kind regards, Besty, ( The grumpy old Platoon Sergeant).

[@colinbrowne281]

Your local law society maintains lists of lawyers who are accredited specialists in their field - eg consumer law

[@Piasecznik72]

Ahahhaaha, that lemon comment made my day.

[@jean-marcandjoshua-petsjournal]

I have a Malibu and I was in for service. The loan car had a toll debt and I could mot get a toll pass. The dealership said “they will deal with it”. Seems they initially did by sending it to me. Later, 3 figure fine and Fair Trading later. Seems the dealer principal came through for me. Took a headache, but yes I did have a ton of evidence.

[@waynemgtregear7228]

I had a Holden astra cd that daily would suddenly lose power the engine died, a minute later you can restart the engine with no problems till the next day. under the bonnet it looked as though someone had spent time looking for electrical problems,I got fed up with this happening in dangerous situations so I got rid of the car.

[@gzgeorge9602]

Just had an issue with my Hyundai Santa fe highlander electronic park brake locked on. Just this afternoon drove to the shop, cam back and parked in the middle of the driveway as usual, unloaded, had a cup of coffee and went back out to go to a different shop. Well the park brake would not disengage. Called Hyundai Road assist (Great service that) who very kindly sent out the NRMA. Turns out the EPB motor is seized. Car cannot be driven and needs to be towed to the dealer. A quick google suggests this is not uncommon and costs 3-4k to fix. Car is 2013 model that has done 112,000 Kms. Always serviced at the dealer and correct service intervals. From that it is not unreasonable to have worn parts, however I think it may be unreasonable to have a ~3k+ part fail in this space of time. I guess I will find out how it goes next week or so when I hear form the dealer. What is your opinion on this Should I expect to pay the full price or do I have a case for consumer law to step in and at lease lessen the hurt?

[@middlecovemotors2474]

Get the parts cannon out boys!!! You can analogize vehicle Diag with being a Dr except being a Dr is easier....there are only two models (at birth anyway) and they don't add new options every six months like third legs and GPS.

[@goverat]

Service centres shit me to tears, honestly they all do the bare minimum. I had a car that was dropping its coolant from the water pump. Told the dealer, they replaced every hose on it, charged me through the roof and didn't touch the pump, which was evident when i took it home and found all the coolant on the floor. Took a different car to a different dealership, who didn't do diagnostics on a weekend, rear shocks had been leaking for quite some time... Had another get told about a leak, again didn't touch it, didn't even spray degreaser to hide it. If you find a good mechanic, keep them

[@azizbass]

Hello John thanks for an excellent video with great advice but I do have an important question. When you pay a dealership a diagnostic charge for a problem how would I know they are telling the truth saying it's not a manufacturer's defect? and if it is an intermittent problem and I'm being very helpful to the dealership going back and forth, Would I have to keep paying this charge? I'd appreciate an answer to this question or the best advise around it thanks again I'll look forward to more great videos.

[@soilmanted]

While I agree that modern digital control of fuel and ignition works better than old-fashioned distributor with moving points, a single voltage transformer (coil), and shielded wires from the distributor to the sparking plugs, and centrifugal devices and vacuum devices to advance the spark with rpm changes, I take issue with the idea that the older systems were unreliable. The older systems, though not as precise, and requiring periodic adjustment by a mechanic to remain "precise enough" were totally reliable - if they were periodically attended to by reliable mechanics. Of course there has long been a shortage of those, but I have never had a single problem with the moving-point ignition system of my 1968 car, over the course of 300,000 miles and 14 years. It was, however, necessary to check the point gap every 6 to 12,000 miles, and then to adjust the ignition timing, to confirm that the vacuum advance device was functioning (or the centrifugal advance device or both). And of course the sparking plugs needed replacement much more often than in a modern car. That car got new points every so often but if I wanted to I could have cleaned them up with a file instead of replaced them. The original distributor cap and voltage transformer was with it to the end, after the rings and exhaust valve guides had needed to be be replaced twice, and the valves and valve seats needed to be reground or replaced twice. I think it got only one change of ignition wires. The original fuel pump was still working and the carburetor was original, although I had to blow through some of the smaller jets with compressed air, maybe once every 50,000 miles. The engine ran excellently for all 300,000 miles, after 2 overhauls. In short, the ignition and fuel system was more reliable than the valves and rings. Was still running great when the body panels rusted through and going through puddles gave the front passenger a shower. First generator had a failed winding in the armature after about 50,000 miles. The replacement generator lasted 250,000 miles with just replacing the brushes every 50,000 miles.

[@StaitlyNatters]

This occurred just after purchasing (about 6 months)my 2012 outback, the pipe between the turbo and air intake split, sent dpf off the charts. Told by local Subaru service centre known issue after about 5yrs. Cost me in excess of $600. As i was 2nd owner and bought from car yard, thought I’d have a little bit of protection, nobody wanted to know, insurance claimed ‘as it’s a known issue, not covered’ dealer I purchased from, ‘not my problem as it states on sales contracts 6 months warranty’. Subaru service centre, just shrugged, ‘our warranty is for the original owner’ the best service centre offered was not charging me for the dpf regenerative service. People ask me what I think of my vehicle, I tell them straight. Love the vehicle, but…..

[@Maccat]

SHE LOVES THE SHIRT!

[@nigelcox1451]

There used to be a saying, "A Friday afternoon car". Inferring that it was built on a Friday, when the workers were not caring, just looking forward to their weekend. Not reality, as their processes were fixed and mundane, the build quality was similar every day. When I started at a large BL/Rover dealer, in 1976, the guy who handled all warranty claims (Yes, a full-time job), showed me his ledgers going back over 10 years. (All paper, no computers) Every page would reveal the same customer names repeating. This would continue over several years, when warranties were 12 months only. Same customers bringing in complaints regularly, despite a new vehicle every year. We'd take the trade-ins, service them, and sell them used, and get few used warranty claims. Little wrong with the cars, lots wrong with the owners. Such things can get in the way when a genuine problem appears.

[@suspicionofdeceit]

What lens are you using?

[@AutoExpertJC]

12-something (35 or 24) f/4 Sony E. On full frame, obviously.

[@mikedunkerton3484]

Edited to protect the guilty. Many of us have had problems of this sort. My worst experience was with a Ford Fairmont way back then. It ran hot, with the needle right hard up against the red zone. The dealer took it for a long drive on an extremely hot northern Queensland summer day and claimed it was running in the centre of the gauge. I know that was impossible on that particular day, and was surprised they would lie in such a blatant way. Anyway, the car ran without blowing the engine during my period of ownership, just permanently hard up against the red zone without actually boiling. I eventually sold the car privately and the new owner had the engine destroy itself quite quickly. I always felt a bit guilty over this. My suspicion was that an engine cooling passage had been blocked with sand during the casting process, but it was only a suspicion. It could have been only a gauge problem, but with the dealer claiming there was no problem the gauge was never checked. My resolution was to never buy another Ford after having had a previous Ford which was absolutely brilliant. The new Everest due next year is looking tempting though, and I hope I can resist.

[@TheSouthern75]

I'm with you John. The only good thing about carburettors is they generally sound great (well good ones like dellortos and webers). Points are vile as well. I told a lady at work not to buy a Land Rover, she did and didn't see it again for the next three months, she didn't even make it back home from the dealership before it shat itself. As I watch you (a lot) and previously always tried to be an informed consumer I'd never have gone that way myself but sadly people have these delusions of grandeur and buy a so called "prestige vehicle" and so many of them are just shit boxes (Lexus and BMW and possible Porsche excluded).

[@Low760]

Weber's are great if you like becoming an expert on Weber's! Ask me how I know.

[@TheSouthern75]

@@Low760 Yeah i have em on my racecar too

[@johnmathisen1167]

I think that my 1997 thirsty 4 lt Jeep is almost reliable because most times it keeps going.

[@samboelliott1]

Those were built right.

[@dougstubbs9637]

Customers are sometimes…..well., they could try harder to be at least pleasant. Years and years ago, at an ABS franchise, Mazda 323, brakes and new half shaft and boot. We ‘notice’ stuff on cars, for the extra workshop hours, and this thing was weeping the O ring on the dizzy, really common on these. Tell the owner, end up with ringing in ears as we were trying to rip him off ….etc,etc. Fine, come and pick it up. Few weeks later, via tilt tray, dead Mazda, and in no uncertain terms, WE are told to fix, or unfix what WE did to it. Stormed off into the customer lounge, vowing to not leave until he can drive out! The manager said no worries, never darken my door step again. Four minutes later, some torx cloth and CRC, motor oil spray inside dizzy cap cleaned, that delightful conversationlist departed. The hatchback was parked on the side of the motorway, about 8 k away, when I went home later. I hope that old bloke died a very painful death.

[@cyclonicleo]

Use an independent, brand-specialist mechanic. Best thing I ever did with my VW.

[@sandybarnes887]

Relemonization. Classic JC

[@trevorgardner4748]

Thanks

[@AutoExpertJC]

Thank you very much.

[@trevorgardner4748]

More than welcome. Anyone that wears a Skunkworks T-shirt and appreciates Kelly Johnson deserves a nod.@@AutoExpertJC

[@AutoExpertJC]

Imagine developing stealth in the 1950s. #respect

[@_bodgie]

There are a lot of people unable to troubleshoot simple cars, the problem has been around since cars were invented and is just as prevalent today. Most modern mechanics can only read codes, they don't seem to teach them how to diagnose and troubleshoot issues associated with the cars fundamental systems. Until mechanics are taught how to troubleshooting simple systems they'll never be able to fix more complicated issues IMO. I like old cars but new cars are so much better as they're generally much more reliable when maintained properly.

[@stumawson7516]

Had my Swift for 2.5 years and because of lock downs and being far from a dealer had to service it myself. Absolutely know this will have voided my warranty but I needed to use it and fresh oil and filters etc are sort of a necessity for a little turbo charged car. I'm just trusting in the inherent reliability of the brand and realizing if it turns to shit it's on me. 45,000 km and it hasn't missed a beat but honestly the Jeep, dodge and Suzuki dealer is so fn unhelpful. I brought it because he said I could get it serviced on a Saturday.. Turned out I could if I booked 8weeks in advance. My life as a truck driver doesn't have that amount of planning or schedule possible so its just the way it is. Will not ever buy from them again. The 2019 Suzuki Swift Sport is a great little car though.

[@playedon78]

Technological advancement is one thing, tech for tech's sake is quite another

[@cazarilolsen4630]

I do not mind a diagnostic fee, but here in Arizona it is $125.00 USD at Toyota. Just to high.

[@craigquann]

That's cheap/reasonable. It's basically 1 hour of labor...

[@justiniusjustinius137]

Your justification for an individual knowingly selling a lemon on to an unsuspecting buyer because it is likely that is what the maker who buys them back would do anyway sounds an awful lot like moral relativism, John. If one starts using dealer or car maker conduct for our ethical yard sticks we really are in trouble.

[@keithandtahneahmcpherson7268]

Please reach out I need help with Mazda Australia

[@romanlewandowski9616]

Are and should ratels and squeaks be covered under new car 🚗 warranty?

[@AutoExpertJC]

Yes.

[@romanlewandowski9616]

@@AutoExpertJC John are you saying yes they should be or that they are?

[@DanWallis86]

@@romanlewandowski9616 when I worked at Ford rattles and squeaks were covered under warranty.

[@romanlewandowski9616]

@@DanWallis86 thanks

[@TheKnobCalledTone.]

@@DanWallis86 I thought rattles and squeaks were an operating characteristic of Fords. 🤣

[@TheAlfador]

Hello John, some guy on youtube called speedlab channel reacted to one of your vids and called you a fake saying he'd debunk you

[@AutoExpertJC]

Like I care...

[@TheAlfador]

The most john cadogan reply ever🤣 cheers to you mate keep being dead honest

[@TheKnobCalledTone.]

Holy shit... I just found that SpeedLab guy's channel. He sure smashes out the content, doesn't he? Looks like he posts at least 3 new videos a day...!

[@theairstig9164]

@@TheKnobCalledTone. how is producing three yt videos a day every day contributing to society? It could be but without viewing I am skeptical

[@TheKnobCalledTone.]

@@theairstig9164 The quality is going to suffer, that's for sure. Case in point: Scotty Kilmer. He's OK in very small doses, but unbearable if you're getting three notifications a day from him, 7 days a week.

[@poucpouc9331]

Regarding electronics in cars nowadays, what do you think as an engineer of the electronic/electrical handbrake compared to the manual one. Hans Meyer.

[@AutoExpertJC]

It frees up a lot of real estate in the console area, but it seems fairly complex for not much benefit other than packaging. And, typically, complexity is the enemy of reliability.

[@351tgv]

@@AutoExpertJC I miss the good ol umbrella park brake that the falcon had up the ED Falcon (1994). the absolute drizzling shits now is these stupid joystick or rotary dial transmission shifters which are basically digital nonsense.

[@adoreslaurel]

Can you do an Audio record unbeknownst to the dealer?

[@lukes5533]

John a GVM upgrade is one thing but is a GCM legal?

[@RobertSmith-di5ll]

.. don't forget the media - often that helps - the worst ad for a car is the voice of the man in the boozer moaning about how useless ABC is - one day the message may get through to the thicky manufacturers/dealers - one day

[@oldcynic6964]

Call me a beard-stroker if you will, but my take is that because of the large number of electronic systems fitted to any new car, the harder it is going to be to diagnose which one is breaking down when - ten years down the track - it starts to manifest occasional strange symptoms. At that point, given the cost of labour and parts, and the obscurity of the problem, it may be economically sensible to just get rid of the car even though in all other respects the vehicle was fine. The more sophisticated cars become, the harder they are for the average mechanic to maintain/diagnose. I won't bore you with the details, but imagine a car with power steering that does not work on a hot day, until you have hauled it from full left lock to full right lock. Only on a hot day, remember, and not every hot day. I ended up selling it in winter. The mechanics' approach had been to swap out likely stuff a bit at a time. And I can sympathise with that approach; I just couldn't afford to keep it up! What am I suggesting? Avoid vehicles with fancy features you can live without (eg hill descent control) and turn off everything that you can turn off. Learn to live without "lane-keeping" software. You don't need it, and God help you if that one goes wrong!

[@NewGoldStandard]

Why do you keep picking on Golfs? If I want to destroy the ride quality on a car I *really* think I'll track one day then I'll tune you up. How's that?

[@btnetro]

Well if it goes in LIMP mode and then it works, it will show on the scan at te dealer. ECU keeps record of these faults.

[@AutoExpertJC]

Not alk faults are logged.

[@michaelhart5886]

Another common misconception from the public unfortunately. Not everything is logged and just plugging in a scan tool doesn't necessarily get you to the issue as one fault can trigger multiple issues that lead you in all sorts of directions

[@btnetro]

@@michaelhart5886 I work part time in a busy garage and I've never yet seen a LIMP mode without being logged and stored on fairly modern cars. JLR ones for example even log the mileage, conditions and component probability, VERY accurate. I surely don't plug 5 quid bluetooth obd scanners. On the other hand, if the dealer doesn't want to do it it may say well the fault is not present, come back when it is.

[@michaelhart5886]

@@btnetro I never said LIMP mode in my comment. I said not every fault is logged which is true. 22 yrs as a mechanic and 17 yrs working for myself has shown me that time and time again.

[@btnetro]

@@michaelhart5886 Yep you are right. Bit of misunderstanding I was specifically targeting the LIMP mode. Others indeed sometimes they are logged as intermittent, sometimes not at all.

[@LiamPatterson1]

I purchased a brand new i30 after watching your video's John - you know the ones, where you bad-mouth brands such as VW and Ford. You sure do have a sweet spot for Hyundai though. But let me ask you a question. What would you say about a company that sells a car featuring "Apple Carplay" but all the time they know their carplay system does not work. Would you accept that it is Apple's problem? Would you accept that the infotainment system is a 3rd party issue? Would you consider it ethical that a company sell a product with a known fault, but keep that to themselves until the ink has dried on the sales contract?

[@davidwright5739]

Hey J.C. Can you comment on the customer survey requests that are sort after visits to a dealer? One salesperson said to me the carmaker for that dealership expected scores of 9 or 10 but the experience I had when I wanted to and did purchase was not pleasant so I rated them a 1 and put my reasons fairly completely. Did I score a black dagger on my customer file locally or am I bad against my VIN number recorded nationwide?

[@TheKnobCalledTone.]

Oh god... sounds like the manufacturer uses what's called a Net Promoter Score to measure customer satisfaction. I had to deal with that shite back when I was in the corporate world (not at a car maker btw). It works like this: 9 or 10: Positive 7 or 8: Neutral 6 or less: Negative In other words, if you're a normal person who is happy enough with the service received from the dealer but not enough to be completely blown away, 7 is a reasonable score. To these corporate wonks, 7 might as well be 5. The manufacturer might know who you are, but it's unlikely they'll pass your details onto the dealer. They'll just give the dealer a bollocking for getting a 1. On a related note, years ago I had a Mazda2. The Mazda dealer I took it to for service always insisted I give them at least a 9 whenever Mazda HQ contacted me for a follow-up survey a couple of weeks after a service. I used to give them a 7 as my way of telling the dealer to get bent without risking a follow-up email from Mazda.

[@davidwright5739]

@@TheKnobCalledTone. Skoda

[@sammyfromsydney]

What would you do in this situation John? A few years back now (somewhere around 2005) I had a VSII Berlina wagon with an intermitent issue with the climate control. On hot days only, the climate control sensor would read minus 30 degrees celcius, and the aircon would blow only hot air, because hey it's minus 30 out there, with no way to override it. It was a second hand car and obviously at that point approaching 10 years old. The dealer wanted me to book it in, weeks in advance, with a minimum charge of $500+ (in 2005 dollars). I had pictures and videos but they insisted if the problem couldn't be reproduced on the day it was booked, there was nothing they could do. I wasn't prepared to spend that money on diagnostics that couldn't actually be done unless it happened to be a really hot day. I drove that piece of garbage for another 5 years with airconditioning switched off and windows down on the hottest days. It really ruined what was at the time my dream car. (I have simple tastes). My next car was a Ford, and I'm still driving it, though looking to get rid of it this year.

[@markfitzgerald7556]

Go to a wreckers and replace the faulty climate control sensor yourself....or ....perhaps.....go to an air conditioning place and they probably would have said "shit yeah we have done 100"s of those faulty sensors".....by chance did you never replace the engine mounts or the cam chain and sprockets the V6 engine was famous for these faults and nothing was ever done by GM about it.

[@AutoExpertJC]

What I said at the end: go to an independent specialist (in this case, an HVAC specialist or autoelectrician).

[@TheKnobCalledTone.]

A VSII in 2005 would have been at least 8 years old. Bear in mind this was prior to the current Australian Consumer Law coming into force in 2011. On that basis, the Holden dealer was probably within their rights to refuse to fix for free. Even in 2021, I have my doubts as to whether or not a climate control module would be covered under ACL on an 8 year old car.

[@ivanolsen8596]

Dood, you have destroyed my faith in humanity, in fact I almost poopied my trews, I always held the automotive community in high regard, up there with prime ministers, treasurers, mps, lawyers, liquidaters, land developers,bankers, newspaper owners etc. Now you hit me with this, who can I have faith in now?? Hang on, who else but the Fabled AUTO EXPERT!!!

[@AutoExpertJC]

That really is barrel bottom-scraping, dude.

[@steverodwell2952]

It is sad when the advice is be civil and thoughtful in your discussions with the obvious person to solve your car problem in the first instance. This should not require a video to be known to the general population. Sure if they or the dealership at large are unable to return this respect to you go somewhere else. People are usually busy, stressed and trying to get through the working week, helping them do so is in your interest. I know all this shit about the customer is always right etc., but often the customer is another busy, stressed person trying to get through their day. John, you are right about points and dizzy's and bloody carby's. I love old motorcycles, but they are the ones that break down on a trip not my new ones.