Your ROOM is messing up your SOUND (again)

👉🏻 This episode is brought to you by AudioQuest:
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🎥 Camera: Olaf von Voss
🎬 Editor: John Darko
🕺🏻 Motion GFX: John Darko
💰 Ad segment: Jana Dagdagan
🛋 My listening room in 2022:
darko.audio/darkos-listening-...
🎵 Song IDs? Playlists of all music heard in this video - and other videos - can be found on PATREON: / johndarko
0:00 Bum!
1:42 Livelier rooms
7:01 Goldilocks RT60
14:04 Hello, neighbour!
18:49 What can be done?
23:57 The aesthetic compromise
Jesco Lohan (Acoustics Insider) explains WHY the room is critical to good sound
📺 darko.audio/2019/08/a-long-fi...
Jesco's Acoustics Insider KZbin channel
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Jesco on the usefulness of rugs and carpets as room treatments
📺 • New Studio: "Do I need...
Vicoustic room makeover: installation day (as a short film)
📺 darko.audio/2021/11/vicoustic...
🧙🏻‍♀️ Darko’s REW setup:
Apple MacBook Pro 2021
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Umik-1 USB microphone
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Topping D10s
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👉🏻 Also seen in this video
Bluesound Powernode
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KEF LS50 Meta
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Dynaudio Focus 30
👂🏻 darko.audio/2022/07/podcast-i...
#roomtour #hifi #audiophile
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[@DarkoAudio]

PLEASE READ *before commenting*! 1) All comments here are moderated by a third party 2) Polite comments that advance the conversation are most welcome 3) No URLs, racist/sexist remarks or conspiracy theories, please

[@marksawyer6242]

Every time you put out a room sound related video, I am more convinced that my next upgrade should be a really decent set of headphones. There's no way my wife is going to sign up to full room treatments. Decent headphones have to be more cost effective than decent room treatments. The other thing, room treatments won't block out the sound of my mother-in-law, headphones will, so that has to be a win win! 🤣

[@DmitriWeissman]

Headphones sound is different. I enjoy speakers much more. Probably because it's not only about hearing, but feeling as well. And yes, I'm in the same boat with room treatment, though no mother in law nearby :)

[@backrack01]

Agreed. Unless you have a home big enough to have a dedicated room... this just isn't practical. Wish I would've got into this hobby before I bought my house. Ah well. :/

[@volkhardruhs7662]

It is a problem without a dedicated Room. And I tried, when my wife stated it would be the necessary actions or her. Somehow my „Darling I enjoyed our marriage, but…“ didn’t had the expected reaction. Strange. So, Headspeakers it was. Very expensive. And really great. BUT. You can guess. But better than only be free to listen, when one is home alone or at very very low volumes.

[@crespojosef]

@@volkhardruhs7662 what headphones did u get?

[@davidtull2388]

Yep, especially if you do have a “listening” position. May as well be tied to headphones. Thing is I like sharing music as I move around the house.

[@plaubelmakina8916]

When I worked as a soundman for various bands, I would clap my hands loudly a few times when I walked into the room. Then I often cried.

[@roofpizza1250]

I do that when looking for a new place to live.

[@ld4974]

My main speakers (B&W 606 S2) sound awful in my garage. My garage speakers (Elac Debut 2.0 B6.2), at about 1/3 the price, sound GREAT in my garage. Sometimes it's the speakers, sometimes it's the room, sometimes it's the speakers in combination with the room.

[@MadBiker-vj5qj]

After fully treating my listening room I was just bowled over with the amount of extra information I was able to perceive. Most noticeably, the differences in acoustic environment, where the original recordings were made, jump out and force themselves to be apparent. I love to listen to the decay after a big orchestra finishes with a crescendo, and the room treatment makes this so much more accessible. IMHO the room is just as important, if not even more so, than the equipment in use.

[@kirlu50]

I' m thirty seconds into this video. And I really appreciated the disclaimer at the beginning, which made me smile. The Internet is a crazy place!

[@Jambi14]

This video sure helps me to now settle with what I have and to stop pursuing that elusive "better" with ever more expensive speakers. Reconfiguring my available listening spaces simply isn't an option. Thank you for helping me understand.

[@LencoTB]

I’m in the same boat as you. I can’t change my room and treat it with panels. I am wondering if room correction like Dirac and RoomPerfect is the next best thing if you can’t do room treatment.

[@vincentrenaud7249]

The demonstration of those two rooms is impressive: I can hear the difference over my phone’s tiny speakers! Love you channel John. Thank you so much!

[@benpit2762]

Oh boy these videos are on another level… this is by far the best video produced by John and may I say kudos to Olaf who’s also been contributing to the success of this channel. I am definitely thinking of adding some acoustic panels on my ceiling first, this should get the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) ;-)

[@LencoTB]

Thinking and doing isn’t the same thing. If the WAF is still in order after you have put it ceiling panels then post a link so we can see the design and maybe get a WAF ourselves 😅

[@dirkmoog8855]

This was your MOST IMPORTANT VIDEO ever. Finally, somebody who is reviewing HiFi equipment is putting some emphasis on room acoustics. For thirty years I was buying into the sales pitch, that, if I what a better sound, I need to buy more expensive HiFi equipment. For my fifties birthday I got myself a treat and bought some room treatment elements. What an eye (ear) opener! May I present you with a challenge? I loved your approach with the raspberry pi (getting 90% of the benefit of expensive HiFi equipment for 10% of the cost). I believe the same approach would work in room acoustic treatments. From my experience absorber are way more important than diffusors. Pining some Basotect panels on the ceiling and on strategic places at the walls can get you a long way for a rather small budget, but make a huge difference. I would love for you to make a video out of this. Thanks, and keep up the good work.

[@greganderson1681]

My listening room is mine to play with. And it needs some help. Lucky me! It’ll be an “art project” and not just room treatment. Check back in a year or two and I’ll send you some photos. 😃

[@elkinavila]

Genius comparison... Really palpable difference and excelent guidelines. Cheers John!

[@stevezeidman7224]

You’re always entertaining and informative, John.

[@TPQ1235]

Very interesting and informative John. No need to apologize for the length. Thx.

[@dano5184]

Great insight into room acoustics! Much appreciated!

[@TheRsxer63]

I agree 100%...Ifully treated my old HT, and it made a huge difference.

[@jlutell]

Great & fascinating …loved the room comparison!

[@microteche]

Really good simple insight, thanks John

[@521tifosi]

This is such a great video. Audiophiles spend so much on equipment to improve sound, but the room is so important. But the one thing I want to know is how much (generally) does it cost to professionally treat a room?

[@morior3027]

I never belived I could hear these differences. Great stuff there ! Room reverb does mess the sound after all! Keep up the good work, i love watching your videos...

[@Kenny-Somafunk]

Good video for those interested in basic acoustic treatment and why it is important. From a personal perspective I have treated my entire 4.2m x 3.3m x 2.4m room with 19 GIK panels (£2.5k) of various types and measured using REW and umik mic I have an RT40 time, I still have 3 room modes at 35hz, 75hz and 130hz but DSP implemented through ROON has somewhat tamed the bass - not perfect by any means but certainly more enjoyable to listen to, speakers are Dynaudio LYD 48's and Dynaudio 18s sub using CXN v2 streamer. My preferred listening choice of electronic music has never sounded better, needless to say with that much treatment in my only living room it's no surprise i live alone. 😃

[@bartboonstra948]

I really appreciate the comparison between the 2 rooms! I think it helps beginners to understand what you are talking about.

[@vasilis9506]

Great video mate, very explanatory! I acoustically treated my living room couple of years ago, a huge difference. Keep up the good work!!

[@Vicoustic1]

A very insightful video on room acoustics that realy shows why you need acoustic treatment to achieve high quality audio.

[@paulclissold2677]

John, one of the best “comparison” videos. Wow, night and day room to room. Super informative. Love my speakers (KEF LSX II in a super small office) However, no wonder I find my various headphones and IEMs “better” experience.

[@Shepard557]

Great informative video John. Thank you.

[@johnwhitehead8006]

Very good explanation with room to room comparisons! I ready to try ceiling mounted acoustic panels.

[@lorenzo_bi]

I loved the comparison between the rooms. Great video! Can’t wait for the next one! Oh, by the way, I put an umik-1 on the wish list. Thank you John!

[@russellparker4568]

I have a big peak in my treble response thanks to my room being very live. I use Dirac to kerb some of that energy and it works very well. I use some acoustic panels for bass and soft furniture everywhere else. Fine tune speaker placement and you can get it quite far.

[@stevenbailey4119]

With all this pursuit of perfection it leaves one dissatisfied with what they have.

[@brianlewis5042]

One of the most useful videos I have seen. The comparison was an ear opening event. We all have heard about how important the room is to your listening pleasure but I feel most people focus on the equipment first and then “look” into room treat as a possible solution. Hell people will spend money on cables, isolation products, etc. before they will look at room treatments because of the cost. Nevertheless it is an important part of creating the best possible sound from a audio system.

[@michaelreilly569]

Thank-you so much for a terrific video. I would like to learn much more about this.

[@midmodaudio6576]

Very informative video. Thanks for posting it

[@anandshah71]

This is the best Video that you have released and for people like me who are new hifi enthusiast wanting to get the most and learn I will have to see the video again cause many important points u have covered and I don’t understand most terms so lot to learn . I would love see some more videos from you with regards to this more expanded ways 🙏🏻

[@javierjones]

I looove when you begin your videos talking about music ❤️

[@badger748]

Probably the best hifi video ive watched in a very long time. We have an acoustically horrible room, and this has given much food for thought. Thank you John!

[@rondickinson8741]

Thank you for an extremely helpful video. I've spent quite a bit of money on equipment when it's my room that's the problem thank you

[@dell177]

Excellent advice! Your room has more profound effects to the sound than almost any component in your system.

[@davidblahey]

Thank you, thank you, thank you for doing this video. Very well done, great editing, super content. You may have saved me a lot of money by illustrating how treating your room can improve the sound incredibly. I have a great interest in learning more how treatment can help with my room problems. Probably will start with the ceiling...seems logical and least intrusive.

[@marksh5003]

John great video I treated my whole room diy. Diffusers front and back wall.Absorption on side walls.All the electronic changes I have done over the years nothing has even come close to the clarity, soundstage, room size .I have soundstage insturments 15 ft. Behind the speakers!

[@bayard1332]

This is a super important vidi for everyone who does not have their room treated yet... it is the subject I've been harping on for a few years in the comments of audio vidis... Cheers!

[@Dortch3]

John, this was not only entertaining, but highly educational. I thank you.

[@DarkoAudio]

You, Sir, are most welcome.

[@MauriceHotblack]

🤣🤣 I've only just managed to get my speakers away from the wall and in to a decent listening position.

[@benb3285]

I've never discounted what room treatment could do or that it had value to someone... until I watched this video, walked into my TV/Listening room and snapped my fingers around the space. I always knew I could do something to the room but was unsure if it was need. Thanks for another fantastic video, will make me look up at dull offices and appreciate how much better a drop ceiling is making a room sound.

[@Koiworks84]

Thank you John for all the work over the years on explaning so many aspects of this "hobby". Sometimes words don't paint the full picture or leave room for interpretation but examples like this really help someone like me, with limited knowlegdge to understand a bit more.

[@LencoTB]

I totally agree. I learn something all the time watching Darko’s videos.

[@seoulrydr]

its ok to make sense. its also ok to prioritize function over form on occasion. learning can in fact be considered entertainment. tyvm.

[@healthynutster]

I completely agree on the importance of room treatments. Conventional wisdom says the better the room is treated, the less room correction has to do and the better the results. Low bass is the most difficult to treat, so I’m very interested in seeing whether room correction is effective (or as effective as extensive bass trapping)

[@rtgsbeano]

Well presented John, we are able to take a little or a lot from your observations that may be applied to our own rooms. If nothing else, the information presented is invaluable for understanding music/room interaction.

[@EquatorialVillager]

Very informative thanks. I'd never have considered that treating the ceiling makes the largest single improvement. My (obviously wrong) instinct would be the wall opposite the speakers. I learned lots today.

[@Globalsouthie]

I loved the disclaimer at the introduction!!

[@silberfarb-films2328]

Fantastic. All audiophiles should do this! Great video.

[@hajokerkhof]

Great video! Thnx for sharing.

[@Berenfox]

I just moved into a new flat and had a similar experience as the comparison in this video. The difference between my old living room (untreated but with a thousand books and stuff) and the new one (still completely empty) is like heaven and hell, especially when it comes to reverb. Just one of the occasions where I realized how much of an impact the room has when listening to music.

[@bayard1332]

You can easily hear how the room actually alters the actual tone your ears hear at the end of the video when you switch between rooms with the finger snapping. This tone shift happens from the lowest lows to the highest highs and all in between. So... if your room is untreated it is actually altering the tone, therefor one can deduce that in an untreated room you are not at all hearing the actual speakers tone. This was born out in my own acoustic journey as when I finally got my room sorted (not sorted until the room ode is dealt with...) the speakers turned into a very different sound signature, a way better one. It is simply impossible to know how your gear actually truly sounds in an untreated room. Great vidi, Cheers!

[@FLH3official]

Thumb up! 👍🏻As a a musician, and sometime "sound guy", it's refreshing to see that some audiophiles finaly realize they should better invest in room treatment instead on über-expensive pure native silver AC cables and rare wood shelves to improve their experience.

[@JeffRiggins8080]

Great video. Thanks for the info.

[@saphiregin]

Good stuff. Thanks!👍

[@markwalsh4887]

I’ve always been curious about this so great video. I have wanted to measure my room and this might be the push I needed to do it

[@krom447]

Nice video and nice measurements. REW also allow to test DIY panels well.

[@jkherberger]

We just installed a Vicoustic system in our showroom and WOW. So so so much better.

[@Natan9000]

I was seriously looking at my room after viewing the KEF sl60’s and thinking my room really sucks for music. Then i search your channel and see this video released 6 hours ago. 😅 really nice video again! It makes me think more of buying headphones instead of speakers 🥲

[@shanestephenson8423]

Wow John that was an amazing demonstration between the two rooms, and very easy to hear the reverb in your neighbours living room. I used to Dirac live via a Mini DSP SHD and I have an acoustically treated room.The thing I noticed immediately was the imaging became completely focused. I've also put 4 rather large Primacoustic bass traps in each corner of my listening room which dramatically helped my 80 Hz peak in my room. There is absolutely no doubt about it in my opinion, treating your room which essentially is the instrument your stereo system is wrapped around, is an absolute critical aspect of hearing your system as it should be sounding. And one area that is vastly overlooked by most Audiophiles. Great video John, an excellent illustration of the difference between treated and untreated rooms.🎧🙂👍

[@tedjensen8841]

Great video, very useful information.

[@mrspikiespike4807]

100% agree. I made my own wall panels with rockwool and got my room down to an average of 3.3. Makes a huge difference. On another note, was able to smooth out my bass holes in the room with my SB-2000 Pro Subwoofer software app.

[@LencoTB]

Rockwool inside a living room. I wouldn’t dare it. Health above all.

[@hilde45]

An excellent case made for at least modest room treatments; the audio forums are filled with people comparing gear and trying to use vague words to describe audio without any control language regarding room acoustics. You have described a middle ground between going crazy and doing nothing that I think completely defeats the argument that one can do nothing and just listen to the music, as people like to say. You cannot listen to the music or a piece of gear nearly as well without room treatments. And you have demonstrated this.

[@test40323]

Huh, interesting comparisons. I frequently hear distracting room echoes in Skype conference calls, now I know what it is and how it affects my own listening. Thank you!

[@mattiaslundh8563]

It would be interesting to see a comparison between active and passive room corrections/treatments 😊

[@headshotke]

Moving speakers closer is a good tip! Just moved my b&w CDM-1 to my office, standing each at 1.5m away from my ears and of each other, on stands and wow does it sound better...

[@thirdkey9]

Thanks for the 101 and sometimes what is really sexy is more of an inside job & within anyway. Despite prior experience working in music venues & in recording studios, nothing landed for me more than experiencing a recent full acoustic treatment in one of my corporate spaces. A/B’d for fun the before and after with some music and the results just blew our minds.

[@melarch.5424]

My dedicated listening room is in the basement with a low ceiling and still sounds horrible with already $2,000.00 spent on diffusers and absorbers. I would need approx. another $ 5,000.00 to properly treat it but, on a fixed income, it's very difficult and would take years, so I have to listen at a very low level to avoid the room taking over!

[@contemporaryartist6542]

Brilliant, thank you!

[@Peacewiser]

LOLOLOLOL, great opening text darko. thanks for the giggle.

[@kerrymcmanus9188]

That's made me think, thanks John

[@Mario-pn5lp]

Great video, thank you!

[@MakiPavlidis]

Loved it. I’ll definitely consider it.

[@Nephilim-81]

Yes sir, John. Acoustic treatment of a listening room is one of the very best audio tweaks and or upgrades you can do. I swear by it and thankfully my wife allows it. :)

[@mikets42]

There is 1 foot of mostly empty space between the ceiling and concrete of the building. So it is 9 feet instead of 8. You can put holes and ports into your ceiling to create a helmholtz resonator tuned on 340/2.4 (or 0.5 or 2 of it) to lower the major ceiling - floor resonance mode. Fyi : Sonex makes washable panels, about $7/sq.ft. i have used them for 7 years.

[@Paul-RSA]

Another great video!

[@MrMwalker43]

Great job!

[@mymusings5948]

Good stuff. Very clear.

[@markmallinder7618]

There ARE ways to treat the room without it looking like a music studio. I’m not a fan of fabric covered panels even though they do the job. I’ve been building my home studio and on the end wall (behind the speakers) I built a metal stud frame, filled it with 100mm depth rockwool, covered with thin fabric (to stop the rockwool dust) then covered the whole wall with acoustic slatted panels floor to ceiling. The slats are mounted on acoustic felt which allows the sound to pass through to the cavity behind and this gives class A performance and also some diffusion. I built bass traps in the rear corners using the same technique (also with the slatted panels). On the side walls I made 14 hexagonal frames filled with rockwool with a canvas front which is printed with artworks of my choice. In my case I chose images of iconic music artists. They are several clusters of these hexagon absorbers on different walls and I have to say that it looks awesome! I still have to work out what I’m going to do with the ceiling but I know it will also look great. So if you think that having a acoustically treated room is going to mean that visually it will be a big problem for your wife or partner, then think again! It IS possible if you just apply yourself and use your imagination.

[@JSVegaIII]

Full disclosure, I work for BASWA, but there are a few ways to do it non-visibly

[@LencoTB]

I would never risk my health by placing Rockwool in a living room. Everyone knows in DK that it is for roof only and inside the walls. Health above audio.

[@saviduris]

Great video, thanks

[@GR8Tmate]

John, I’m not trying to blow hot air up ur rear but I just wanted to say (even though you probably won’t read this), “That you are possibly one of the best channels on YT” & I for one always find your productions both entertaining and educational. I appreciate your efforts. Cheers from Hobart Australia 🇦🇺👍🏻

[@sebastianbachert9528]

Great video!!

[@FlintingSun]

Excellent video, thank you! Also, at 20:38 - does it tie the room together?

[@filipviljamaasvensson]

Yes! Such an important video. I have just finished treating my room after a 10 month journey of experimenting an learning. The experience I get from my hifi now is night and day. And it is impossible to ever go back to no panels. My treatment is about 5-6% of the total cost of my hifi, but is easily responsible for 50% of the goodness.

[@kace2006]

What did you do and what products?

[@adamhindle9215]

+1 Room acoustics/treatments are a big deal, so I'm definitely in agreement. I've played around with sound diffusors in a number of reflection points, and the results have been both interesting and significant. I make my own diffusors, and in my experience the wall behind the speakers is the key one to get right, as it helps create (the illusion of) the stereo image.

[@anastassiosroumboutsos8288]

Can’t agree with you more. Wish I didn’t ignore it for this long and could have saved me time and money switching gear when the issue was with my room.

[@tommorrison9724]

Great video. I enjoy my listening room as it’s a bright, sunny space with windows on three sides. Are windows an untreatable problem?

[@Wanderhirsch]

My living room only contains a sofa and a thin rug as less reflective furniture. The room is not much bigger than a bedroom. When I have people over and we converse at the dinner table, it sometimes feels like my ear drums pop. There is definitely that "zing" you describe and the hollowness of sound in that room. Tank you for your edutainment, it is insightful and has me thinking about my rooms

[@krogg5868]

A nice discussion on a difficult topic. If there is a specific problematic room mode, then a tuned membrane absorber might be a better choice that just "more" corner traps, etc. This is especially true if there are aesthetic concerns (most of us). As mentioned, RT60 doesn't really apply in small rooms used by most audiophiles. In recording studios, floor treatment isn't used because it affects the expected "natural" sound of certain instruments. For those listening to recordings, however, the situation is different and one would ideally treat the floor to eliminate SBIR (but this is difficult to do effectively short of having a recessed pit trap). Carpet only works for high frequencies but is easy and generally better than nothing.

[@juliangreaves4727]

Hell yeah! You could really hear that 👍

[@DarkoAudio]

Yep -- you really can!

[@CaptainJamesTKirk-en4kt]

I agree with your assessments, did you get these from Vicoustic? I just ordered some bass traps from them and I am lookin gat Multifuser DC3s as well...

[@darrenschmitz2712]

I added (6) 2' x 4' acoustic panels in a small room and I have noticed the centerstage is laser focused now. Micro details are also noticeably better too. The panels were DIY so the cost was reasonable,

[@jimchakeres4659]

Too much money spent$$$

[@osliverpool]

I've been working on room treatments for a few months now, and the improvements have been very apparent. But I've noticed on thing that I wasn't expecting - the sustain on notes comes across more clearly, and I the ending of notes is a lot better delineated. But yes, room treatment makes a *huge* difference, and I'm only sorry it took me so many years to learn that - this video should be essential watching for anyone who wants better sound.

[@kace2006]

What treatment did you implement?

[@plan9fromthenw]

This is great stuff. I had reached a point of confusion and "eh that sounds pretty good" with room treatment in my small room. Also, sorry for pixel peeping but is that the CD 60 from Marantz at 4:00 ?

[@sirpatrickofgoober6603]

Crikey, I was thinking "100ms or so, that's not much to make a difference, surely?" but the contrast between your room and your neighbours was quite marked. Quite a revelation. Thanks for taking the time to do that, much appreciated

[@sivasankar3349]

I like it when the room has zing... It makes the chorus, some kinda synth and sound created by attacking the strings (like major tom by völlig) "energize" the room better. I prefer it with the dorm room speakers. And you are a martinet like a teacher.😜

[@johnwilliamson467]

Nice demo a rather clear difference.

[@mikesecor6074]

I understand. That's great