Your Science Fiction Authors Top 12 List of Shame

[@kristinmarra7005]

What a fantastic video. I just discovered you and I’m so glad. One comment…Shadow of the Torturer early on had such a scene of animal abuse that I had to give the book away. I know, what did I expect given the title.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Unpleasant, yes, but this is Fiction- so it is worth considering it as being symbolic or metaphorical in some way...and Wolfe being famously cloudy in his intentions, it's hard to tell. But I get where you're coming from....I hate animal cruelty.

[@Arghosy]

When you said "...one of my favorites" I knew Thomas Disch was coming. I'm very glad you brought him up.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

I love his work even more now than I did when I first read him. He's so good.

[@stevezeidman7224]

Late to this video and first time commenter. Regarding Asimov, “The End Of Eternity” is quite good. It’s a time travel story that was very nicely written. It’s a one off that doesn’t sit in either the Foundation or Robot universes.

[@vintagesf]

Your recommendations of Thomas M. Disch, Keith Roberts (recently picked up a Berkley Medallion ‘The Passing of the Dragons’, a collection of his short fiction), Bob Shaw and Adam Roberts were very influential for me. Thank you. Never thought of dumb from big, dumb objects to mean silent. Interesting!

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

I think BDO is a really usefu term as it works both ways. 'The Passing of th Dragons' is a great collection, uncommon in the UK, but its contents are in British collections. The title story features a character I always think of as the typical Keith Roberts protagonist, almost: a brusque, bitter but well-meaning man.

[@cannibalisticwolf3319]

I'd like to give a big thanks to you and sf booktube. Thanks to you i've spent my year discovering new all-time favorites such as Robert Silverberg, Christopher Priest, Anna Kavan, Ursula Le Guin.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Pleasure. All front rank writers!

[@steved1135]

Great stuff. I believe a 'list of shame' is not only a bad idea, but also counter-productive, particularly for avid readers. Glad you seem to agree. Nomenclature is important. Philip K Dick is easily my alltime top SF author. Ballard is high up there as well. Odd no mention of Iain Banks. Maybe in part 2...

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

This is the thing about Banks- I wasn't surprised at all that he didn't come up- for many, he was the entry point or the 'revival' moment. He's still massively popular.

[@DaBIONICLEFan]

Fascinating stuff as always Steve, thank you. Aldiss' Non-stop was probably one of the first SF novels I read when I started to broaden my taste in it about 4/5 years ago (I'd read Wells, Verne and even Clarke but not much from later than that) and I knew instantly that I was reading something of a far higher calibre than anything I'd read up to that point, and when I read that ending I just knew I had to search for more sf that did that kind of thing. Looking forward to part 2!

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

'Non Stop' is just textbook SF to me, the kind of thing I'd teach were I running a course.

[@SciFiFinds]

As somebody documenting their SF reading journey on here, it's great to have such insightful videos to refer back to. I appreciate the mention in the description and thanks for putting this together.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Pleasure. You are getting through some important and enjoyable books as a result of your trawl through Pringle's list book. I'll be interested to see which ones don't resonate with you, for as much as I admire David, he is at pains to be honest about his book being personal choices for much of the time. I've read more or less all of them, with the exception of books by authors I've read but am not keen on (such as Simak and Tucker- I've read thier work but not those titles). Despite this, it's easily the very best book of its kind and was a huge influence on me and my approach to structuring my book, which is more based around the idea of creating a picture of SF as a genre in 100 books.

[@SciFiFinds]

@@outlawbookselleroriginal Simak has been hit or miss for me so far. I think City is very good but I randomly picked out Time is the Simplest Thing and thought it was terribly written and highly derivative of Bester in particular.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

@@SciFiFinds I found 'The Werewolf Principle' reasonably enjoyable many years ago. 'City' I felt was Bradbury lite. I haven't fully given up on him, but he won't get many more bites of the apple from me.

[@PeculiarNotions]

I started reading Butler about 20 years ago, and it was difficult trying to find copies of her works. You're right in that pretty much since her passing, it's much easier to get pretty much everything she wrote, and it's been such a wild shift in her popularity.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Entirely down to trendy identity politics, sadly- great shame so few people were interested when she was alive, right?

[@PeculiarNotions]

@@outlawbookselleroriginal I first heard of her when she was on a panel talking about science-fiction in books and movies. She was smart and funny, and I couldn't understand why she wasn't better known.

[@baine4040]

I met Octavia Butler when I was ten year of age. I have all of her books in hardcover and paperback. A brilliant writer and MacArthur Fellowship Winner,

[@beauwilliamson3628]

As soon as you showed the Octavia Butler - I recognize the cover design. The Women's Press printed some of the most fantastic Sci-Fi and related genre fiction in the 70s and 80s. I have at least a half dozen of their books among my favorites. Josephine Saxton, Joanna Russ, Naomi Mitcheson, Suzette Haden Elgin, Ellen Galford - all authors I discovered through them. (Well, Joanna Russ 'The Female Man' a got a cheap paperback from my dad and read when I was maybe too young - but I rediscovered her through those grey rimmed covers.) I loved enough of the ones that came my way that I started just picking up every one I saw. Anyone who is interested in writing that is up for exploring something new should watch out for that Press.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

I've shown and spoken about Women's Press SF on the channel numerous times. They did some great publishing of SF.

[@OmnivorousReader]

Oh, this is fun. I don't have a list of shame, there are plenty of authors and books I want to read or re-read but such is life.

[@psychbookman8613]

Fantastic...as always...thank you! You briefly mentioned Marge Piercy...have you done a deeper dive on her work?

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

No. I may revisit 'Woman on the Edge...' at some point, you never know.

[@silex9837]

Very interesting and so informative. I've read only four of the writers you talked about. I'm very much interested in Disch but haven’t had time to read him yet. I've got the three great titles you mentioned, plus "334" and "Under Compulsion".

[@nledaig]

"Pavane" is a brilliantly executed piece of work.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Well yes. My only pain regaridng this is that people don't seem to go beyond it into Keith's other work. Hope you watch my Keith Roberts videos on the channel, there's one where I visit the locations of 'Pavane', 'The Chalk Giants' and "The Big Fans".

[@JPS-hd8qz]

Greetings from Belgium. I have been a fan of JG Ballard since 1980 when I was a teenager and the first novel I red was The Burning World. When in 2001 the complete short stories ("the loose change in the treasury of fiction", JGB) where published in one volume I was suprised it counted close to 1200(!) pages. They "will glow for ever in the deep purse of your imagination." So true...

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Yes, JGB was the MAN. There are several Ballard videos here and he is mentioned regularly on this channel in many contexts.

[@danieldelvalle5004]

As an addendum to my previous comment, I'm a little surprised that no one mentioned D.G. Compton. I've read him thanks to your excellent videos about him. A very underappreciated author, Compton should be more read, especially given today's "reality".

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

They did, but not as much as the 'top 12'. If you watch the next video coming later this week, Dan, you'll hear me responding to people's comments about Compton and many others. I think awareness of DGC is spreading, not just because of me, but also because Matt at Bookpilled and Richard at Vintage SF both read him at my urging.

[@elciepaul4109]

Me too, I absolutely love Ballard. I fell in love with him when I read an anthology in french called Appareil volant à basse altitude, coll. Présence du futur. I was 16. Never stopped admiring his works.

[@SimonD-xv1tp]

Brilliant, another great video Steve, and more SF for me to put on my TBR list.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Cheers!

[@ScienceFictionRetroactivis-j1w]

Agreed, I have thought "The Caves of Steel" is Asimov's best novel since the early 1970s. I really enjoy many of his short stories, too.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Well, 'The Caves of Steel' came out in the 1950s, so I'm wondering if you mean 'until the 70s'? Of course, Asimov stopped writing SF novels in the 1950s and didn't go back to this until the 1970s with 'The Gods Themselves'.

[@jonathan.palfrey]

I’m not a big fan of any of the authors mentioned, but I’ve read at least something by all of them. In some cases, only short stories: Disch, Shepard, Ballard, Malzberg, Ellison. I come closest to being a fan of Asimov, having reread some of his books quite a few times over the years; but I agree with your comments about him. I’ve read Octavia Butler’s “Wild Seed” more than once, and found it worth reading, but in general I think her fiction doesn’t suit me. I read Joanna Russ’s “Picnic on Paradise” a very long time ago and remember nothing about it, but her short story “The Experimenter” is memorable and I reread it occasionally.

[@philbc3]

Read Roberts for the first time a couple of months ago. It was Pavane and I was blown away. As a reader of a lot of literary fiction it is, imo, up there with the 20th century greats. And then last month I read Clarke's Fall of Moondust. Was expecting a dull, duty read but it actually surprised me - much better than expected. Perhaps I should go in with low expectations whenever I approach a Clarke in the future.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Good to hear from another Keith convert!

[@northof-62]

That list works for me! I'm into 'Molly Zero" atm. (in French so it's slow reading but that suits the novel just fine) The rest are waiting for me on the shelf 😅

[@chocolatemonk]

Good Morning, thank you for he fun. I have been on a decent kick lately of time reading and quality. I look forward to checking new to me authors off my list and have no shame! When you said you don't have a list of shame,; I said, "of course you don't with how much you have read." Then I paused and thought that maybe that is not it; maybe shame sounds too much like self punishment and reading should be enjoyable when appro. I have the Best of CL Moore and a few Disch that I am looking forward to. I am someone who really likes Wolfe but I don't go bonkers for him. I have to be in the mood.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Yeah, I have to be in Wolfe mood as well. It's just that most of the time, I'm not. I find I have to be in a very slow, reflective state of mind to sink into his languid universe....

[@MarkKolnes]

I read 'Shadow Of The Torturer' as a kid, at an age when the cover art sold me more than the description on the back. I bought it again a couple of years ago based on book tubers adoration. It now sits at the bottom of my to read stack. I enjoyed his 'Soldier Of The Mist' series so maybe it is time to move SOTT to the top of the stack. I'm a huge Harlan Ellison fan, so when I saw your recommendation of 'Bloods A Rover' a tried to find a copy. None to be found unfortunately. - New fan of your channel, thanks.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

'Blood's A Rover' was a limited edition from a few years back. If you already own "A Boy and His Dog" and "Eggsucker" (which I'm sure you do) then you have the important stuff, but it is a nice edition.

[@kufujitsu]

An excellent list of SF masters - I haven't read Joanna Russ & Barry Mazlberg as yet, but I've read all the others. Interesting that you compared Roberts to Wyndham -: I think Robert's most Wyndham-like book is The Furies : about giant wasps taking over the English countryside.....🏃🏃‍♂🏃‍♀🐝 I can't get any nourishment out of Arthur C Clarke's novels I'm afraid, but I still enjoy his short stories, & he wrote many of them. Gene Wolfe's shorter works tend to resonate more with me as well -: he seemed to try to wear too many hats whenever he wrote his novels - it's as if he wanted to combine all the best elements of his favorite writers, and he forgot to be himself - at least that's the impression I got whenever I have read his novels. However, I'm looking forward to reading his "Operation Ares". It comes across as the type of SF I like. & Disch, Shepard, Ballard, Aldiss, Roberts, Butler, Ellison -: all have given me wonderful entertainment, & I continue to read them to this day.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Good to hear from you, been a while!

[@athoszubiaur2144]

hi, steve. i've had a busy few days so think i missed your initial call for shame lists. no worries. i've enjoyed this video nonetheless. i've jotted down some thoughts as i was listening so will share. read or not as you like! looking forward to tier a. cheers, a tier c: octavia butler - i read a book club edition of xenogenesis which i liked so when the parable books came out back in the day i bought them right away. i read them but i stopped there. something about her work didn't draw me in. it's been interesting to watch her work being rediscovered joanna russ - i read the female man when i was a young man and, honestly, i don't recall much of it . i think i was too young. i should go back and take another look thomas m disch - i started reading disch because of this channel and i could just slap myself silly. why did i wait so long? growing up and living in the new york city area as i did, i had the opportunity to meet lots of authors at conventions such as asimov and delany. i keep thinking disch must have been around as well. what a missed opportunity! thank you so much for putting him back on my radar. i am loving every. single. thing. i read by him. keith roberts - you put keith on my radar as well. i've yet to read pavane though i picked up a copy several months ago and it's waiting patiently on my tbr pile. when will i get to it? good question! i did pick up a copy of the chalk giants which i read but it turned out, of course, to be the american version which, thanks to you, i understand is markedly different than the u.k. version. i did manage to track down a british paperback but, yet again, i've not had time to read the different bits. alas! lucius shepard - i picked up green eyes when it appeared in paperback. whenever i saw one of those ace paperbacks from that series, i would always buy it. as i recall, i liked it. but there was something about his sweaty latin american stories that didn't grab me. might have more to do with me than with him and his writing. another author i must revisit now that i'm older. might make a difference, wouldn't you agree? j.g. ballard - i've enjoyed ballard's stuff but never considered myself a big fan of new wave writers. obviously, that's changing. ballard's books are hard to find or i'm having a hard time finding them over on this side of the pond. when i do find one, it's rather expensive. on to plan b! barry n malzberg - this is a name i know but never read much of his work. add him to the tbr list! tier b: arthur c clarke - will always hold a special place in my heart because i read childhood end's when i was about thirteen years old and that was it for me and science fiction. there was no going back. thanks, clarke! brian aldiss - i've liked the aldiss books that i've come across. for example, i read the helliconia series and enjoyed it. recently, i read greybeard which i also enjoyed harlan ellison - ah, ellison. i've read some stories by him which i liked. but, again, for whatever reason, he never pulled me in. i'm older and wiser now (right?) so must take another look. my brother recently saw the movie a boy and his dog and now can't stop talking about it and ellison. is the universe trying to tell me something? ;) gene wolfe - this is one of my favorite writers. i have nearly all his books in first editions. enough said! isaac asimov - i have to agree that early asimov is not a great writer. i haven't read anything by him in decades. don't feel the need to dip in. i did read that nonfiction book about astounding magazine recently and it had a lot about asimov. i really enjoyed this look at what was going on in the background

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Quite a summation. I actually enjoy Disch more now than I did when I first read him- and I liked him a lot then. I'm pretty passionate about most of the others as you know. Sometimes I think 'I'm just going to read and re-read my favourites and never mind everyone else!'.

[@athoszubiaur2144]

@@outlawbookselleroriginal sounds like a plan. lord knows there's not much new that's worth reading!

[@MattelJones]

I enjoyed your presentation very much. This pushes me to finally open up and read my copy of Getting Into Death by Thomas M. Disch, a U.S, first edition hardcover (the cover depicts a mostly unseen woman sitting on a bed her casting a shadow of her having a cigarette across its surface) Ballard is one of those writers whose name prompts me to buy the book even though I seldom get around to reading them straight away. I probably discovered his work via Cronenberg. I have read a number of Barry Malzberg's books but they were all from his Lone Wolf crime series (written as Mike Barry) which is a pretty interesting spin on the war against the Mafia men's adventure books. I imagine he might have felt trapped like the writer in Herovit's World as he churned that series out. Anyway I appreciate the thoughtful reading suggestions and overviews, thank you for there time and effort.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Pleasure- many more viceos like this already on the channel- some 500 of them...

[@leakybootpress9699]

An interesting video, Steve. Listening to your discourse on the tier C authors was like hearing you speak my thoughts aloud, how odd. Clarke and Asimov I gave up on years ago. They were both such clunky stylists they became unreadable for me. They both were a few reasonable short stories, but as for novels, I'll read Clarke's "Childhood's End" one day, Asimov, I can't think of one I'd want to return to. Perhaps you could do a guilty secret video, writers we enjoy reading even though we know they are B A D... such as Edgar Rice Burroughs, who I don't read.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

'Childhood's End' is one of the few I enjoyed. Burroughs I think you just need to read the first Tarzan, the first John Carter and 'People That Time Forgot' and that's enough-it's just generic after those, I feel. The next video will see me commenting on Tier D as it were...hope you are well, my friend!

[@leakybootpress9699]

​@@outlawbookselleroriginalI meant reread "Childhood's End" one day. I'm not too bad, Steve. I hope you're feeling better and full of the joys of the season.

[@alpastor6359]

Oh neat, I think the one "evergreen" british SF author that the rest of the world can point to is either Wells or Clarke. Nice to hear about Aldiss. I've recently got a hardcover of "Man in His Time" and look forward to going into it sometime. Also picked up a copy of Non-Stop on a curbside box. People have been warning me to stay away from his Frankenstein/Dracula stuff. Also got me my first Ballard book in Chronopolis, which I'm eagerly waiting to go through too. I've never seen a Disch or Malzberg book out here in the USA in any thrift store yet. Wonder if they're in scarce supply or if I'm just unlucky. I know Joanna Russ has a Library of America Volume if I'm really interested in her. Asimov/Wolfe/Ellison are all easy to get ahold of too. (Read Butler for college, she's solid but not something I'm into.) Never heard of Lucius Shepard or Keith Roberts before this. They sound interesting. I'm looking at the cover art for your Asimov and Clarke books and wondering why we didn't get stuff like that. It's better than the modern American paperback covers for those authors.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

If you serach 'Keith Roberts' on this channel, you'll find two videos dedicated to his work- one where I visit the locations of two of his novels, another where I meet an old friend who donates some artwork and manuscripts by him to me. He's also mentioned in many of my other videos. Shepard comes up now and again on the channel and there's a video here in my '100 Must Read Science Fiction Novels' playlist about his early work. Malzberg is uncommon in the second-hand market now because I've talked about him a lot.

[@JulianBills]

I would recommend Norman Spinrad and Damon Knight. They were both pretty keen on style and not-writing-the-same-book-twice, that takes some doing. Damon Knight wrote some useful advice to other writers, he was a good critic. Both are middle list writers who should not be forgotten.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Spinrad is a firm favourite of mine and has been since the 1980s. Knight I blow hot and cold about, but he did some great work.

[@disconnected22]

Tanith Lee. I’ve been curious, and I know her books are rarer. Hence, I’ve snapped up everything I’ve come across in the wild without reading her yet! *23 books and counting*

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

She's worth collecting if the books are in excellent condition or above, as they are now fetching silly money.

[@beauwilliamson3628]

As a longtime Tanith Lee fan, I have to admit her books span the gamut of 'quality'. Some seem like she was writing quick, for money or experience - but then at the other end are some of the most sublime works of fiction I've ever read. All of them are well written though. 'Blood of Roses' is my top pick. Not SF. One of the most complex and bewildering stories ever written, with a mystery that kept me guessing up until the well earned payoff. I'd look up a tier list of her work and just dive in.

[@disconnected22]

@ appreciate the feedback. Going by the book count, I’ve already dove in! I’ll tell you what got the hooks in me: coming across a pristine 80’s DAW copy of The White Serpent. One of the most arresting cover images I’ve ever seen...

[@robjohnston5673]

A great selection, lots of writers to search out. (Currently reading and very much enjoying my first James Salter, as recommended on the channel.) I also read that first Kiteworld story in Interzone. (Yes, I think it was Issue 1.) On the strength of the Kiteworld story I bought both the novel and Pavane (in Penguin CSF editions) so that Interzone read worked out very well indeed.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

You are clearly a man of excellent taste....

[@boromirjonah5774]

when i finally started keeping everything i read I started reading the big 3. I am 2 novels shy of reading EVERYTHING by Heinlein. Some of it to my regret "I will fear no evil" My favorite of his is "the door into summer". I have a long way to go on Clarke and Asimov. When I finish Clarke. I plan to concentrate on Simak. I love to throw in short stories as well. Ray Bradbury is my favorite author. I have mixed in some Hugo winners and nominees so I feel like I am getting a good dose of vintage stuff. I wish I could read faster but I don't want to miss anything.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

'The Door into Summer' is one of the most favoured RAH novels, even by his detractors. Take your time and enjoy the reading, I'd say.

[@heggedaal]

Great collection. I have to revisit Ballard and pay Roberts a visit.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Thanks. Ballard is always worth going back to and Roberts is one of the finest writers to ever grace Genre SF. Look at the videos about him on this channel, there is one where I visit locations that pop up in his novels.

[@redmorrison3158]

I’m not sure that I have a list of shame for specific authors, but I would definitely say I have a list of shame for specific novels. Stuff like, A Canticle for Leibowitz, The Dispossessed, Ringworld, etc. I just keep pushing them back for some reason. A book I just finished was Planet of the Apes, which I pushed back for years. I finally went for it after you mentioned it in a recent video, and I loved it.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

POTA is great, yeah.

[@kid5Media]

Shame on you. Must reads.

[@GoneWithTheCircus]

My first contact with Asimov was a short story called The Billiard Ball, which I loved, and which even now is what I assimilate with hard SF and since then I kept looking for hard SF, hoping to find something similar, but bigger, to widen my horizons into science in a fun way, taking advices from people like you, and failing miserably reading clunky prose during which for the most part I have no idea what is happening or what the hell is the talk about. See Blindsight.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

There is a certain tendency in Hard SF from the mid 70s on for it to become too dominated by science at times, often to its detriment. I understand what you're getting at.

[@rickkearn7100]

I had not ever heard a more eloquent explanation of A.C. Clarke's writing skills and the fact he is known mostly for his ideas, until I watched this episode of Outlaw Bookseller. Had never thought of Clarke in this regard. I agree his prose is "clunky" his characters insipid and not well developed, and also that reading his work now as a seasoned SF reader, is a disappointing experience. But I only get these perspectives by watching Stephen's channel. Well done as always, OB! PS: I've noticed your output is more of the weekly variety rather than multiple posts within a week. Am I imagining that? Cheers.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Hi Rick, great to hear from you as always. Yes, I've been more 'weekly' of late due to circumstances - sickness, life getting in the way, too many books literally preventing me from getting at other books in order to make videos, a reading block...not to mention work. It's more by accident than design, though, but I can't see me getting back to 2 videos a week plus a Club Room video until next year now. BUt you never know.....

[@Scottlp2]

I think lack of character development was true of many SF greats back then eg Asimov, Niven, etc.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

@@Scottlp2 Well, Niven came up in the 1960s, by which time numerous SF writers had delivered strong character development. I think in his case he's typical of the Hard SF of the period, which is usually lacking in traditional novelistic virtues.

[@rickkearn7100]

@@Scottlp2 True that!

[@danieldelvalle5004]

I can brag that I've read all of the authors you mentioned. Interesting about Gene Wolfe, he has been on my radar for a long time. I attempted to read The Fifth Head of Cerberus decades ago and didnt get past the first novella. However recently I went at it again, finished it, and was quite grabbed and astonished. Then I tackled The Book of the New Sun, five books, and enjoyed them completely, even though I wasn't getting everything that was going on, but I like that. I like that aspect of a Gene Wolfe book, that you almost always have to go back and reread it. Right now I'm in the middle of Peace which is also intriguing and a puzzle. He definitely is not for everyone. I think you need a certain amount of maturity as a reader to "get" him. Either way, I think Im becoming a fan.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

I noticed you having a Wolfe moment a while ago. I have to be in the right frame of mind to read him, but when he gets me, he does, but he remains 50/50 for me. I sat behind him in an audience once at a con and was too awed to speak to him.

[@danieldelvalle5004]

@outlawbookselleroriginal , I would be too. There is also a comment by Wolfe that I admire him for, and I'm paraphrasing: "If an editor got a story by a J. Smith, the editor wouldn't care if the "J" was for Jose', Janet or Jeremy. If it was a good story it would be published no matter who wrote it." Of course this is in contrast to today's culture environment.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

@@danieldelvalle5004 Ain't that the tragic truth!

[@peterflom6878]

It's a somewhat odd exercise. Authors have to be known and admired but not read. I did see your announcement but I did not know who to put on the list. When I admire an author, I tend to read them. But then there are authors who is haven't heard of, or have heard very little about, but who i should read

[@joelstainer65]

I keep hoping to find Keith Roberts in my hunting, but he just doesn't seem to pop up in the shops I haunt in Canada. Love Ballard and Wyndham and think he would be right up my alley. The criticisms of Clarke are fair but I just 7 of his books last month as a revisit and he does a great job of writing simple, entertaining, easily readable, SF that can be approached by a broad audience who wants to engage with some ideas they may not have otherwise. Andy Weir reminds me of someone who is doing that today and is earning mass appeal from general readership while also getting poo pooed by those who might consider themselves more sophisticated. I think that authors like this are important for broadening the reach of SF, even if they may not be truly exceptional.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

I think you would like Roberts very much. on your contention, you have a point, but do the people who read writers like Weir and think he's amazing when he's simply entry level then move on to other things? Observationally, based on what I've seen and heard in my job for 40 years is that much of the time, they don't. But this is true about the mass of readers in any area- I meet people all the time who read popular crime fiction, but who have never read the American masters like Chandler, Hammet and Cain.

[@konshtok]

the first two sf I read and that got me hooked were "the puppet masters" and "imperial earth" what I liked about "imperial earth" was the way the human story didn't revolve around the sf

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Well, I think it was Sturgeon who said that SF was 'human stories with a human problem that would not have exitsed without technology'.

[@gregcampwriter]

When you said that the author fell out with everyone, I knew who was coming. Ellison is a good test for whether there's an afterlife, since he was litigious enough to file lawsuits even after dying.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Yeah, we'll see what happens LOL

[@louishenderson4516]

The Chris Foss Caves of Steel cover is fantastic I have the Robots set in that livery but paper back as Im not a hardback fan

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

'The Caves of Steel' and 'The Naked Sun' are very hard to find in the Foss jackets in hardcover. I sold my set of the paperbacks on when I acquired them. I still have a pristine set of the Tim White covers for the Foundation series though.

[@davea136]

I ahve read most of Clarke. INcluding his paper on what would become telecomm satellites. I don't love him. I found _Childhood's End_ particularly disappointing. A fantasy novel disguied with aliens. My favorite Asimov writing were the anthologies of _Please Explain_ from his magazine column, explaining ideas and events in science. I had an affinity for R. Daneel Olivaw right away, and I jsut re-read _The Caves of Steel_ this year. I enjoyed it just as mch all of these years later.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Yeah, I love the Robot novels. Clarke always had a mystical streak, so I know what you mean. It's very firmly an SF novel, though.

[@miljenkoskreblin165]

While Thomas Disch is rightly celebrated for his sf, he should also be praised for his horror novels. I'm reading his The Priest, and it's brilliant. I found it very strange that Clarke, Asimov, and in part Ellison are on people's list of shame. I always thought that everybody read them. I don't really agree with you about that after 2001 you don't have to go on with Clarke's other stuff. In my opinion, The Fountanins of Paradise and The Songs of Distant Earth, written in 1979 and 1985, are alongside Childhood's End and 2001 his finest novel lenght work. Also, great number of his short stories are fantastic. But, then again, I'm an ACC nut. P.S. I Agree about The Caves of Steel. It's by far Ike's best novel.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Yes, 'The Priest' is brilliant, I reviewed it here around 18 months ago. I am trying to ration out the remaining Disch I haven't read as he's no longer with us. Re Ellison, he simply hasn't been in print in mass market form since the early 1980s on both sides of the Atlantic.

[@reynoldsmathey]

Thanks, Stephen! I agree with your perspective on Clarke (and some others, like Hal Clement) now being unreadable in terms of prose style. These were largely 'idea men' and not great prose stylists. I think Malzberg said something to the effect that conscious attempts at a 'literary' style in SF have largely fallen flat, but stories crafted with no overt attempts to be literary usually come off better. And yes, I picked that up from Ira's channel as well, lol. No shame in this game, friends.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Hal Clement is a particular Bete Noire of mine, I won't have his books in my house (LOL)- he was the living embodiment of Gernsback's idea of what SF should be, but he has his admirers of course. Barry's comment often rings true, yeah, but we have had some Genre SF writers who at times really nailed literature, I feel, though of course the aims of SF are different in essence to that of mimetic realism. Malzberg himself, Silverberg, Disch- three great US examples of SF writers who produced real art.

[@rogermilne8563]

Roberts and Ballard are my favourite authors. Not surprised Roberts is on the list as his books were hard to find even when he was still writing (Wildside Press have them available now). Surprised at Ballard as he's so influential, has movies made of his books, and his titles remained in print after his death (other than the soon disowned Wind From Nowhere). Alldis and Disch were also part of that New Worlds era so I read all their stuff. Ellison I got into much later. When I started reading SF in the early 70s Clarke and Asimov were the grandmasters along with Heinlein. Read loads of Clarke and Heinlein but still haven't read Asimov and likely never will. I read The Shadow of the Torturer when it came out as it was massively hyped and awarded. Never took my fancy, though I hope to get into Wolfe if I have time. The others, no.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Thing with Ballard is that his books have not been packaged as SF since the early 1980s, so anyone sticking to the SF shelves in bookshops won't find his in print editions. He's been annexed by the mainstream, a bit of a double edged sword.

[@glockensig]

I don't want to be a part of any club that would have me as a member!!😂

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

An old joke, but a great one, I often use it myself....

[@paulcampbell6003]

Happy to say *I have no shame!* 😉 I've read all those cats! Love, _love,_ LOVE Brian Aldiss. Shepard and Ellison are masters of the short form. Russ; I prefer her short stories. Of '70s female writers I would say folks should definitely check out Kate Wilhelm, Alice B. Sheldon, Vonda MacIntyre, to name but a few. I'm assuming we'll all read Le Guin.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Yep, you are absolved LOL

[@kid5Media]

Wolfe had a very nasty streak in him that came out in some of his later books. The short stories are generally marvelous.

[@holydissolution85]

I remeber , few months ago, you said you were going to cover some less popular Wolfe's books. Is that still on the program ? Or did I miss it ? Great video as always 👍

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Not got to them yet. Keep watching though.....

[@vilstef6988]

I liked Clarke's Against the Fall of Night much better than the rewrite version, The City and the Stars.

[@vilstef6988]

Asimov does what I call good, grey prose. In some ways, I enjoy his nonfiction more.

[@spiraldaddy]

When are you going to talk about the greatest cult SF movie ever made - Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension. You should interview the writer/director W.D. Richter. His interview on KZbin is a hoot and a holler.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Not going to happen, I'm afraid. I'm still undecided how far I will go into film material- though I've done a little here- and this would be way down my list, unfortunately. My key film from that period is Alex Cox' 'Repo Man' and the works of David Cronenberg.

[@ViralBitsdotcom]

I loved 2001 and was pretty excited to read 2061. It was terrible. One reviewer wrote, “Clarke blandly goes where he’s gone twice before.” I agree with that assessment and I’ll never read Clarke again.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Sequels and series in SF are almost always done entirely for commercial reasons to draw cash from fairly unimaginative readers who instead of wanting something new, want the same thing again- that reviewer was spot on. I love '2001' as well, but it's worth remembering Kubrick had input.

[@solasta]

@@outlawbookselleroriginal Rama was enjoyable in an "of its time" sort of way. Rama 2 was absolutely shocking. I gave up after about 3 cringeworthy chapters.

[@mike-williams]

Octavia Butler and Gene Wolfe were the two names that popped up for me. I don't think Butler had the visibility in Australia that Joanna Russ did on the same imprint. (I read The Female Man 40 years ago). It's only in the last 5 years that she's seriously permeated my awareness zone. I've had trouble trying to get started on The Shadow of the Torturer on a couple of attempts. I think if I were a lot younger I would be less dissuaded and would make a few attempts to break through. Now I just have a lot more things competing for my attention.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Hi Mike, good to hear from you. Butler's visibility was never that great and as I said in the video, as her gender and racial identity now 'fits the narrative' people are interested. Where were they before, we ask ourselves? She was published consistently in the UK, but her work was rarely reissued.

[@keithdixon6595]

Yes of course to Disch! And Pavane, which I loved but couldn't get into any of the others, sadly. Ballard, yes, am just finishing Super-Cannes with Millennium People en route from the UK. I'm falling in love all over again with his prose. Started Clarke's City and the Stars a few weeks ago but couldn't get on with it; but I remember A Fall of Moondust fondly. Loved Aldiss' short stories, not so much the novels. 😔 Harlan Ellison, big tick. Gene Wolfe, nuh-uh. Asimov, of course. There, that's my review. 😅

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Hi Keith - yeah, Ballard kept producing great stuff, 'Super-Cannes' is awesome. Interesting how many commenters here have their doubts about Wolfe, which I completely understand.

[@keithdixon6595]

Perhaps he's too fantasyish for your hardcore SF tribe? I certainly remember shunning him in the 70s because the covers didn't exactly scream SF.

[@keithreynolds]

My experience mirrors a lot of this, but I LOVE Ballard. As with my attempts at reading Vernor Vinge I have attempted to read Arthur C Clarke novels and failed to complete them for the reasons that you (Outlaw Bookseller) have laid out. I feel guilty about this partly because I’m so mean when I’ve paid money, but because the Clarke was from the library I had not paid anything… Could not say that for the Vinge though, even having paid I just couldn’t plough through to the end of the second Vinge that I attempted. N.B. I’m the same with cinema, if I’ver paid I have to sit through to the end… films that tested me the most: ‘Jurassic Park Three’ and ‘Three Kings’. Contrarily- films that others might find dull and overlong like the films of Herzog or Tarkovsky delight me! (Oooh a Popol Vuh soundtrack… gorgeous) I find Asimov most interesting when read as short stories… but no thank you to ‘Foundation’, and why would anyone want to adapt this for TV? A mystery to meThankyou as always.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

I love Ballrd too as you know. Strangely, I rather like 'Jurassic Park III' while loathing 'The Lost World' (How dare Crichton use Doyle's title!) but only in a mind candy way. I'm more of a Herzog guy myself, but mostly re his Kinski collabs.

[@jeroenadmiraal8714]

My list of shame authors are Octavia Butler, Robert Heinlein, Ian McDonald, Connie Willis, Lois McMaster Bujold and Tanith Lee.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Bujold was insanely popular for a few years in the late 80s but no-one seems to talk about her these days. Connie Willis also had her moment. Niether ever did much for me, though I could see their merits. Tanith is very flavoursome, but a little goes a long way- she's one of those stylists who people fall in love with, but she relies an awful lot on invoking colour in her books and once you start noticing her sometimes continual dropping of pigmentation vocabulary into her texts, it gets a bit wearying- I'm speaking here as someone who has done this too much in their own writing!

[@PeterKerans-h6z]

Most prominent on my shame list here would be Octavia Butler, who was indeed pretty invisible, but astonishingly now turns up in deep analysis on public radio here in Australia. Malzberg, too I’ve neglected, and Lucius Shepard, and Asimov’s robot novels. Sad about Disch and others being frozen out of the Nebulas - and wasn’t it Clarke who was lambasted for writing ‘wiring-diagram’ fiction when Rama won over Pynchon’s novel? I found the Rama sequels impossible to finish. But with a Rama movie in development, and Oumuamua flashing through the solar system in recent times, maybe Clarke will be having a late burst of interest.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

That's the problem with directors like Villeneuve- they stick to safe bets!

[@SlowDazzle11]

If I do have an "ashamed" name it would be Samuel Delaney. I read the other famous Ds like Dick and Disch, but Delaney passed me by. I do intend to read "Dhalgren" as -like you- I like literary SF.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

I'd say read the short stories first: collections like 'Driftglass' (or its later incarnation 'Aye, and Gomorrah...'). Then 'Babel 17' and 'Nova'. 'Dhalgren' is a challenging first read re Delany. I'm a firm believer that you shouldn't read a writer's most ambitious work first.

[@keithreynolds]

I suggest- Don't start with Dhalgren, slide into Delaney with more straight forward stuff first such as 'Nova'. Just a thought.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

@@keithreynolds Agreed Keith, as I said in my response. It's like trying 'Moby Dick' as your first Melville!

[@SlowDazzle11]

@@keithreynolds Thanks. I will read Nova before Dhalgren.

[@mbmurphy777]

I tried reading some of Octavia Butler, for example, the parable of the sower. Not a fan. Pros is nothing special, characters are pretty stereotyped in my opinion and she just constantly hammered you over the head with her politics. On the other hand, I think Ursula Leguin is one of the best writers in science fiction.

[@thestorymerchant28]

Octavia > Ursula easy

[@mbmurphy777]

@ IMO Ursula has better prose, ideas, characters and is brave enough to write about the downsides of her politics as well as the good sides. Maybe I need to read more but but what I’ve read so far is not even close to Ursula’s earliest works, let alone her masterpieces.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

I think you make a very good point.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

LeGuin was way subtler, more nuanced, broader and overall more accomplished than Butler- plus, she predated Butler by many years, which allowed her to be a truly Protean pioneer.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Absolutely.