Why the 'MODERN' SCIENCE FICTION you're reading isn't Modern....

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE COMMENTING: Thanks to everyone- pro or anti- contributing comments to this debate, but do read the comments of others and my responses before making your points to avoid repetition. If you gainsay -'no it isn't'- without evidence I'm unlikely to reply, so please by Socratic in your arguments. I won't reply to many of you now until Sunday 13th as I'm at work for two days and as many will know, suffering from a debilitating course of medication. This video was written around 3 weeks ago and filmed about 15 days ago but coalesces from other, more specific videos on the channel as referred to in the clip itself, so please watch these also for further illustration. Thanks everyone and take care.

[@vintagesf]

Novelty addiction. The novum in society is the glut of novelty addiction for all. I grew up on a farm without a TV. When we purchased our first TV I remember seeing the lunar landing and Star Trek. My parents limited my TV time so reading fed my craving for novelty. Now, like you, I'm making videos about reading. My grandparents lived through an acceleration in transportation technology. From horse and buggy, to cars, planes and rocket ships. My parents lived through an acceleration in communication. From telegraph to their first phone to Zoom. I think the acceleration I'm living through is computing, from computers taking up whole floors of buildings to having many times more computing power in the palm of my hand. These accelerations fed science fiction. Transportation, communication and computing. How would they change society? What adventures could be had? What unintended outcomes were possible? What do you think the acceleration of the last few generations will be? Easy to be pessimistic. Alright, rambling on. Thanks for this video Stephen!

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

I grew up in the country too - outside toilet, no mains water, no bus stop, no railway station, no phone box (no phone indoors), no street lights (no street!), so I know what you mean. I was nine when our bathroom was put it. I'd left home before the house I grew up in had mains water plumbed in. I didn't know myself when I moved directly into a city centre. But here's the thing - as I say, we've become addicted to novelty in the age of Modernism, but now we're older and have seen it all, we crave the truly new- and SF needs innovation to meet its brief. This is why we look back at when SF really WAS new and discover that those days are gone, relatively speaking- unless you're young, when of course everything still is new. In time, as the young read more, discover how what they thought was innovative was already old hat, how will that affect their consciousness? Itself a subject for an SF tale...?

[@Onlinepmcourses]

Thank you for this. I am going back through some of your old content and I found this one to be excellent. On another video, I recommended you try 'Too Like the Lightning' and maybe the whole Terra Ignota series. It felt 'fresh' to me when I read it. What really chimed with me in this video is when you suggested that the escape from Post Modernism may be a return to romanticism.I am no expert on this terminology, but I strongly suspect that TLTL is romanticist in essence. It draws heavily on classical and early enlightenment thinking. It's style is pretty solipsistic with personal agency at the heart, but it does not feel in any way existentialist - there are big tides against which the protagonist swims. But the key character is highly emotional and I picture him in a Caspar David Friedrich landscape. I am not one to push a reader into something, but I am happy to ask a respected KZbinr to consider a topic for future videos... when you are well. Please could you expand your point about Romanticism being the way out of the post-modern sameness (which I can feel - but I read SF for pleasure, so do enjoy some of the easier reads!). It would be good to know what Romanticism is, why it contrasts with what we have m=now, how we'll recognise it, and maybe a few top picks from historic and contemporary romanticist SF novels.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

This is a big topic. If you've not watched it, check out my video 'Mary Shelley Was Never Cancelled: Frankenstein, Cyberpunk and the Sublime. The Sublime is the essence of Romanticism and it is present in one way or another in many great SF novels. Otherwise, leave this with me.

[@Onlinepmcourses]

@@outlawbookselleroriginal Thank you, I will leave it with you. I'd not picked up the link between Romanticism and Sublime. I'll listen over the weekend. Have a good weekend and take it easy!

[@timmysmith9991]

Excellent point on the music and SF hauntology. Mark Fisher, Capitalist Realism. The world is starved for creativity and originality these days. I‘m starved for it. I hope the world lasts long enough for young people to tap in to their own originality.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

We must hope so. I am pessimistic from my standpoint, but I'd love to be wrong on this.

[@spiraldaddy]

I really appreciate listening to your erudite talk about Science Fiction. You are my new "novel" favorite channel. Retro future is where it is at - it is a source of inspirational energy. The wells are dried up now in contemporary culture. We are wandering in the wasteland. You can see the post modernism in car and house designs. The color palette is reduced to black, white, and gray. The car models whether a porsche, jaguar, bmw, or hyundai all have the same look.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Exactly. Welcome aboard and join us in the Gernsback Continuum...great to have you here...

[@dhritimangiri4092]

well this video essay truly became much more than what the title and thumbnail suggested. I truly like the idea that the extreme horrific astrocities of ww2 led to the downfall of autocrties, colonialism and led to democracies around the world. Also the plenty of modern world has taken away the wonder for unknown , wonder has turned into unease and suspicion now. And also i am 24 year indian from india, and this identity politics is truly strange . Though i think this is just cyclic in nature this phase will also go out of phase. the more traditional type will again come and then will be fade out by the more liberal type. This weird cycle will continue, Untill literature is totally changed. This cycle is more or less permanant in all art forms.Good work and stay safe.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Thanks and great to here from you. IP is fundamentally strange as it fails totally to look at things as equivalents and objectively- it excuses its own excessses if you will. I think I said it was World War 1 that really stared the end of all that stuff, but WW2 nailed the lid down to a degree. An SF writer I know well in his 30s thinks that IP will fade and is cyclical, I'm not so sure- I am very concerned about its foisting of orthodox opinion onto people ready to parrot it. Very Orwellian stuff!

[@tragicslip]

It will be an interesting world when Coleridge writes science fiction. Being unread has its perks; still have lots of Silverberg to read.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Well, he gets a mention or three in Tim Power's 'The Anubis Gates' I seem to recall. Maybe I'll write something about him doing the skiffy- maybe someone else already has. ..and yep, don't sweat it, we ALL still have a lot of Silverberg to read yet...

[@iantoo3503]

@@outlawbookselleroriginalEven those of us who've read most of Silverberg have a lot of his work on our TBR list. 😄

[@keithreynolds]

Well’s selected stories in the edition you held up to the camera was on my A Level syllabus in 1978. I am certainly a child of “The Modern”. What’s Bill Nelson’s ….??. for new moderns? Young moderns on Red Noise, oh yes Sound on Sound. My elder daughter is about to start a job in the visualisation department at Sir Norman Foster Partners architecture practice. I wonder whether the visualisations will be “Modern” or “Contemporary”? Thanks for this video and opportunity for enjoyable pondering!

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

"Revolt Into Style"- one of my favourite singles, have the album too of course! Not sure if I said but I'm selling a copy of it on ebay currently too, I upgraded my old 'un. Wish I could have done Wells for A Level, you lucky chap!

[@keithreynolds]

@@outlawbookselleroriginal Sat at a table with George Melly (Revolt Into Style author etc of course) in a club in Slough about 1980? It involved a short performance by Melly from an armchair and a Heavy Metal performance …. Rather than The Stranglers. In my memory the band were Judas Priest, but can this really be true? Was it merely Anglewitch? No offence to them intended, but I think it actually was Priest. My memory is suitably hazy enough to be proof for having actually been there. It all feels a bit ‘The House of Rumour”.

[@keithreynolds]

@@outlawbookselleroriginal Sat at a table with George Melly (Revolt Into Style author etc of course) in a club in Slough about 1980? It involved a short performance by Melly from an armchair and a Heavy Metal performance …. Rather than The Stranglers. In my memory the band were Judas Priest, but can this really be true? Was it merely Anglewitch? No offence to them intended, but I think it actually was Priest. My memory is suitably hazy enough to be proof for having actually been there. It all feels a bit ‘The House of Rumour”.

[@wburris2007]

I like my sf to have up to date ideas from science. The biggest problem with most contemporary sf, is the authors have no clue what is going on in physics, biology, computing, cognitive sciences, complex systems, etc. In order to write the kind of sf that I like the author needs to be an expert in at least one of those fields.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

I don't think that's essential, myself, but in terms of Hard SF, it has become a very important thing- but I feel the idea that SF underlines a support of the Scientific Method and objective, humanist, non-magical, evidence based paradigm is the most significant thing. I read 'New Scientist' every week and will say I'd feel moved by its contents to include them were I actively writing SF.

[@pnptcn]

Your take on the hauntology of SF is really interesting and parallels a development in current music known as Vaporwave, a heavily sampled form of music created from 80s and 90s consumerist oriented music. The kind of stuff you used to hear played in malls and on infomercials.

[@CMZPICTURES]

Haircuts for Men! But it's interesting that British and American hauntology musical genres are slightly different, reflecting different cultures I guess.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

I'd suggest reading Fisher and Reynolds on this, I have come across Vapourwave- and one of the videos I link to at the end of this one, about sampling, sees me attacking Fisher and Reynolds' idea that sampling itself could represent Modernism when to me it's clearly Postmodern as it reuses actual material create by others- pastiche in its rawest form.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

@@CMZPICTURES - Agreed, but conceptually, they're the same.

[@MakeMeAmerican1812]

I often think the term modernist is confusing (even ignoring the common confusion with the word contemporary) as it encompasses actually two distinct phases: the late industrial period of 1870-1914 and the Surrealist period which goes up to the end of World War Two which I guess now I think about is really "futurism" but is called modernist.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Well, I'll disagree with you there- I think a wider look at Modernism shows it to be a continuum that lasted many decades as I argue. But an interdisciplinary approach can be a lot to get the head around all at once.

[@RayBlake]

A fascinating half hour. Thank you.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

My pleasure, great to have you on board.

[@salty-walt]

I loved it! So much to chew on. Considering the density of information you presented, the comment I wanted to make is really more of an addendum to a footnote; You bring up the relevance of hauntology while discussing the postmodern disintegration not only across genres, but across different media. The proponents of hauntology *define* it as an exclusively British phenomenon, ignoring the whale in the room burbling "Buy More Budweiser" that *is* American cultural hegemony. We've definitely experienced everything you're saying over here, and it strikes me as humorous that at least one (if not more) of the people who take issue with your thesis start quoting tired Marxist and feminist critiques unaware that by tying it to hauntology you have already brought those subjects in!

[@pnptcn]

Eliot's Wasteland is a dead shopping mall.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Exactly, Karl being one of the key ghosts of our Postmodern lives, Hegel too as 'new' narratives are created by Postmodernists to combat the 'Western Grand Narrative'. I don't think Hauntology is exclusively British as a theory, it's just that the cultural referents and works so often referred to arise from British genre fiction -especially as they link to the landscape of this small island, which has more uniformity geographically than a subcontinent like the US- I think over the pond you have multiple hauntological zones to choose from. Glad you liked it, mail me sometime.

[@leakybootpress9699]

An interesting discourse, Steve, which pretty much echoes my own thinking. Just as the mass production engendered by the industrial revolution changed society, at least Western society, the advent of modernism changed our cultural perspectives. The problem with both these (let's call them) movements, is once they became established, they also both became the norm. There have been no revolutions since, and precious little evolution. Mass production relies on us purchasing the same thing over and over again, the best manufacturers can manage is to make minor design tweaks, which is why a 1970s car looks pretty much the same as a contemporary car. Much the same has happened with our culture, you mentioned music, but also films, television and, yes, science fiction. All have, in a sense, atrophied. Hence, the repetitive nature of contemporary SF and fantasy. Publishers will say they publish such stuff because it's popular, it's what people want, but anyone who can be bothered to think about this will soon realise it's really because readers are not being offered anything better. In a sense it's the industrialisation of SF and fantasy, the Churning out of standardised products with minor tweaks.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

I could not agree more, James- but you are one of those who can be truly proud in your publishing and criticism and other work in the field that ensured many great things were exposed. We owe guys like you a lot, my friend.

[@leakybootpress9699]

@@outlawbookselleroriginal Thanjs for the nod, Steve, it means a lot.

[@davidbooks.and.comics]

A kind knew the beginning of the "novel" really started with Fenelon's Telemachus and Voltaire's Candide is deliberately reactionary...as a student of sociology and popular culture, I tend to agree with your understanding of things.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

I think it's hard to really identify the first 'novel' -though Petronius' 'Satyricon'- which is excellent, though fragmentary (it dates back to Nero's Rome) feels very recognisably novelistic. I tend to focus on 'Don Quixote' as the moment when Realism struck a blow at Fantasy- and Fantasy readers- and I feel it's fundamentally important and probably the most important novel ever. I now view SF as being more closely related to Realism than Fantasy, since Realism shares the same rationalist non-anachronistic philosophy as SF. SF & Fantasy are not as closely linked as many people seem to think, I'd say- but more on this in another video. Thanks for your comment.

[@davidbooks.and.comics]

@@outlawbookselleroriginal I think SF seems to extrapolate a new reality based as you say, on non-anachronistic elements...I think Phillip K Dick does that with his writing influenced in part, by Christian eschatology. He quotes Teilhard de Chardin in A Scanner Darkly.

[@leemason6897]

Great video. I hadn't really understood why I was going off contemporary SF and sticking the old stuff until recently but thinking about it, it makes perfect sense.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

See, you've REALLY grasped my thesis as you are already calling what you've read recently as 'Contemporary'. Once you start thinking about SF in the context of this narrative of Enlightenment, Modernism, Postmodernism, you'll see why the cracks are there. And of course Postmodernists, with their distrust of Grand Narrative as too 'Western' have to resort to building their own Grand Narrative as an alternative, proving the thesis they're against. There are other stories, they say...well yes, but they were written later. Hang in there.

[@hotemet]

Well said! I can't say I am reconciled to the change your insights chronicle in this video, but I fear they are accurate.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

I'm only reconciled to it under duress of evidence, so I sympathise. Thanks for your post.

[@robbmnr8221]

Hi, I would love to know the identity of the two books at the right of your shoulder. One is Bowie, though I don't know the book and the other green background with black figure?

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

They are not books, they are postcards. There is a Bowie postcard, as you correctly divine and the postcard is the cover of Edogawa Rampo's 'Beast in the Shadows', a Japanese crime novel I reviewed here a couple of months back.

[@CMZPICTURES]

I'm wondering if part of the issue today for contemporary speculative fiction is discoverability. It seems like there are fewer opportunities for short stories to get published in the traditional manner although there are other outlets like podcasts etc. It was probably the same back in the day though. I mean if you wanted every Richard Bachman story, you'd be hunting around for old issues of playboy or something? Most of the contemporary novels that I've found lately that I've enjoyed I found through Radio 4 ( a reading of John Lanchester's The Wall and Stillicide) or through The Guardian which did some good lists of UK cli-fi authors. So I guess what I'm asking is where are the best places to find new authors. I've never quite got around to subscribing to Clarkesworld :-0

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Well, you find 'new authors' all the time in bookshops, but if you're talking about SF, what you already realise is that there are huge numbers of SF novels published and marketed as mainstream fiction, so they don't get into genre displays. As I'm not very engaged -or quite frankly-interested in new authors, I can't answer your question. I have loads of old books to read, re-read and established living writers I like to keep up with. Back in the day, it wasn't the same in that there were more a lot more collections and anthologies published- these days, an author has to do really, really well or be loved by their publishers to get a collection published- largely because of all the silly people out there who 'don't like short stories' despite having short attention spans in other ways- take Jemison, a long-winded bland writer better in short forms, but her collection sells really badly. I think you've answered your own question really- there are still magazines, and small presses of quality like Newcon do regular anthologies. But for me, honestly, I go on instinct- but my instincts are very highly developed and I'm also at the stage in life where I think SF is largely played out and so I focus on quality and originality, both of which are, from my perspective in genre fiction- hard to come by. There are videos on the channel where I talk about my contemporary favourites -Chris Beckett (see the interview with him), Dave Hutchinson, Adam Roberts, Nina Allan, Emma Newman, Tom Toner- but most of these are in their fifties. As I don't think 'New' is around much any more, I don't spend an inordinate amount of time reading 'new' authors as I can tell at a glance and a few lines of prose if they're going to get me. I find M T Hill interesting. There's a review a few months back of 'In Ascension' here. But I am not going to expend lots on time and energy on the 'new' until it steps up and bites me on the ass- which it is not doing. If you dig through the backlist, you will find material about working writers you don't know, but remember- why do we think 'New' is so important? Because Modernism made it this way in our heads and people are yet to realise that what is Now is no longer new and the market structure that focuses on 'new' is still with us. Sorry if this is unhelpful, but I'm not really that interested in Now at the moment.

[@CMZPICTURES]

@@outlawbookselleroriginal Well NewCon is new to me so that in itself is definitely most helpful, thank you! My interest in the new is probably about confronting todays fears with todays perspectives if that makes sense. So for instance while I enjoyed The Purple Cloud and The Drowned World or even Make Room Make Room, something like The Water Knife or Ministry for the Future resonates much more with me personally. I also like that they tend to be based on our best current understanding of the situation so there's an element of edutainment to them.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

@@CMZPICTURES -I can see that, though I would say the Ballard and Harrison addressed those issues a long time ago- but that's an aesthetic point about pioneers. I think you're right to see SF as a vehicle to examine serious concerns, though, you're on the right track with that. Must say I like Cynan Jones, but 'Stillicide' didn't work as a prose version for me though.

[@jedjedjedjedjedjed]

This is a fuckin awesome video essay!

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

I'm touched. Plenty more like this here and in the next few weeks, more polemics of this kind coming, stuff that needs saying. Stick with me, delighted to have you here.

[@thomasp6034]

This was quite thought provoking. For instance: is there any tendency or movement in SF (or literary fiction for that matter) that can be identified as distinctly of the 2000s or 2010s? We now have a couple of decades since the 2000s and it's very hard to think of anything new in that decade. Today things are incredibly dumbed down. What seems to set the trend is Netflix, Amazon, the Marvel movie franchise and the like, which are re-telling the worst, most dumbed-down 1950s tropes, updating them with a dash of identity politics and getting rid of the outdated ideas. The most popular SF books are products of this environment and there is a new conformism, nothing that really sparks controversy or shakes things up in any genre. If Nineteen Eighty-Four is the most influential book of the 1940s, what is the most influential book of our time? Hunger Games, Harry Potter... basically YA, action-adventure, comic-book type stuff.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Exactly my point. The history of Genre SF is marked by (r)evolutionary moments and quasi-movements. What do you get after Cyberpunk, itself just a moment before it became a cliche? The New Space Opera Renaissance of 1987 and after (back to the 1930s, Mr Banks!)? Some would argue the full-on Posthumanism of Vinge ('The True Names), Egan, Stross and many others- not all of it bad, I grant you, but it all resembles Stapledon and Clarke up to a point, maybe- the jury is out on that for me, but little of it is literary- Gibson had already worked it up and Bear made it keeno. The fact is that there were NO new 'moments' as such in SF after the early 90s, only recapitulation and reinvention of old tropes- OK, as I said, it gets harder and harder to be original because- as I said (again) Modernism had exposed us to ever-faster changes of novelty, made us want more and, running out of ideas, turned to new technology for them (why do people prefer analogue synthesizer sounds to digital ones? Because analogue is clunkier, prone to quirks and fails which create interesting glitches in the hands of humans). Finally, 'Harry Potter' - postmodern pastiche, meshing the classic school story with 'A Wizard of Earthsea'. 'The Hunger Games' -Robert Sheckley's 1950s kill game ideas rebooted for kids who need endless series. ho hum. Yep, it's new to them, but it ain't to us.....

[@holydissolution85]

Maybe I would've include 90s nanotech / biotech & singularity thematics as the last new thing, ( especially in short stories ) . Yes, there are precursors in the 80s ( Blood Music etc. ) , but for me this is the last inovation worth mentioning. ( There's nothing else afterwards technologicaly, except Egan & Baxter doing their super developed godlike civilisations ) You right, 1995 is like where it stopped...post 2000 it's just identity politics that is new ( not new as you said ) Funny, but in my opinion it is WH40k universe ( 😁 ) that is very important nowadays, because it includes demonic / spiritual evil as an enemy to human race. Something the rest of science fiction has forgotten about by being too immersed in materialism & new scientific discoveries. ( Biggest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he doesn't exist & all that 😁 )

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

See my reply to thomasp6024 above. But yeah, here's the thing - the precursor (Bear for example) is the one who counts the MOST in SF, as in all Modernism- it's just that everyone else catches on later...Iggy Pop invents stage diving in the 1960s and it becomes a thing in the 1990s, when it's already no longer Modern, just Contemporary. See what I mean? 'Blood Music' counts more than Egan etc, though yep, they refine it, take it further- but that's why I prefer Van Vogt's Space Beagle to 'Alien' - first really is best in Modernism. Having said that, the Posthumanist school can come up with good stuff when it goes Postmodern, like Stross' 'Accerlerando' sticking it in a Family Saga guise. We keep on looking, nonetheless. Thanks for your take on it.

[@holydissolution85]

@@outlawbookselleroriginal Thank you for your reply...

[@rickkearn7100]

"It's happening now so it must be important, right?" Here we are again, OB, the endless claim of each new generation that the mousetrap and the wheel are inferior designs. I always have a good-natured chuckle at each new example of the naivety of those who believe that their idea is the first time mankind has ever conceived it. Thanks for bringing up this subject and presenting such eloquent arguments to make the point. Well done, sir! Cheers.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Not to disaparage youth, but I entirely get your point, Dean of Men!

[@rickkearn7100]

True that. I agree, not to disparage them, for they truly are the hope of the future. Just can't help having a good chuckle now and then. :) @@outlawbookselleroriginal

[@douglasphillips5870]

The modern was a rejection of the traditional one looking forward as the other looked back. Clinging too much to one or the other is a dead end.There is a lot in between

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

There is a lot in between, agreed.

[@willp2877]

As a new reader of science fiction, having only been reading for a few years now, my intuition has felt this truth for some time now. Hence why i spend so much time reading the good stuff written in the 50s, 60s & 70s. It's great to hear you speak so articulately about the history. It helps me put many things into perspective. I read SF for the sociology, not the 'space fantasies.'

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Well yes. More perceptive readers with an ability to get beyond contemporary speech patterns/styles grasp this quickly if they are reading to go beyond escapism- I see SF at its best as escaping into reality (not from it) through metaphor- the best SF is always about where we are now. PKD was very big on rejecting 'space fantasy' as SF - I disagree, as it has the Novum of advanced space travel, but if you can't add the cognitive dissonance and end with a conceptual breakthrough, then it's just general fiction set in space- which is why I think Becky Chambers - an example among many- is really bad at SF. Thanks for your comment, great to have you here.

[@willp2877]

@@outlawbookselleroriginal I appreciate the work you put into this channel. I've learned a great deal.

[@JozefLewitzky]

@@outlawbookselleroriginal I completely get where you're coming from with Space Fantasy =/= good SF, as for example, I'm not a fan of Star Wars as SF. However, I do think there's something fresh in Chambers' work. Not that this makes her works world-class, but I do think it at least makes her a good SF writer. From a queer perspective, she integrates a light-hearted approach to examining gender and pronouns (one alien species has 4 genders), polyamory (a species that sees friendship and sex as closely interlinked), and more, providing a nuanced look at how different aliens may treat family and friendship differently, like Left Hand of Darkness or Speaker for the Dead. But even on a more hard sci-fi front, we get a look at Algae-powered engines in Wafarer's #1, which is a real scientific breakthrough that is currently being explored, as well as whole books dedicated to what it's like to be a ship's computer AI integrated into an android body (Wayfarer's #2), how to deal with burial in space (Wayfarer's #3). Additionally, in the Monk and Robot novellas, we get a look at an alternative earth where robots leave and humans learn to work with nature rather than continue down a fully technologically-driven path. These ideas may be explored in previous science fiction works, but I think they meet the criteria for a novum and conceptual breakthrough.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

@@JozefLewitzky -Well of course they are SF, it's on the Conceptual Breakthrough I think she's pretty weak. 'To Be Taught If Fortunate' is very limp that way and it's failure to really do something good with Pantropy- even though that's an old concept too (I think Blish' 'Seedling Stars' did this best)- was a missed opportunity. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about her-but I will point you toward Stark Holborn-there's an interview with her on the channel and I think you'd like her work. Finally, on the gender point, I again think this is a well-worn path, but it is an example of SF reflecting the EXACT social concerns of the moment but very directly at the moment, even though I feel they are overstated, liek almost all Identity Politics issues- throughout my sixty years, I've seen vast improvements for people of colour, non-heteronormative sexuality and so on. Things really are so much better than they were on these fronts.

[@iantoo3503]

Another excellent video Steve. Whilst I can't help but agree with your position, I have to admit I find it a bit disheartening. It implies that everything has already been written and that the field is recapitulating itself. Part of the problem for me is that the contemporary versions are way too long; my encounter with Peter F Hamilton's Pandora's Star and Judas Unchained is the epitome of this. It leaves me reluctant to read any more Hamilton, but also Adrian Tchaikovsky's Children of Time given the plot similarities with Robert Forward's Dragon's Egg.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

It is an issue and it's depressing me too. Length is a HUGE problem with books now, I say this on the channel constantly. Fuller answer coming!

[@glockensig]

HOW DARE YOU!!!! .......just kidding! 😂.... I agree with most of what you say! Maybe you have to be a grumpy old guy like us to get the right perspective on it. One very minor critique.....as regards WW1. I would say, they weren't ready for the machine guns, the gas, the ARTILLERY! Tanks came along late and didn't play as large a part. It was also the first time, because of the way society was structured, that such masses of people could be thrown into the lines. If you're a history buff at all, I recommend Hard Core History's podcast called Blueprint-for- Armageddon!

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

I do like a bit of history and damn, you'e right about the artillery-thanks again!

[@hanniffydinn6019]

Modern sci fi shows like Star Trek strange new worlds, shows how bad current day “modern” sci fi is! 🤯🤯🤯

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Well, that's the trouble with TV and SF cinema for you much of the time, still thinking it's about surface rather than ideas....

[@paulallison6418]

Very interesting video Mr Outlaw. I am a student of the history of SF so really enjoyed this. I have read everything by Wells, ERBurroughs and much of the golden age SF. I am also a big fan of the art movement FUTURISM. Umberto Boccione is one of my favourite artists, very modern, deconstructing the solid, the old and presenting it in a new dynamic way much like good SF.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

You nailed it. Understanding Futurism is key to understanding the historical context of SF in the widest sense and a specific way.

[@robbmnr8221]

@@paulallison6418 I love Umberto Boccione, his sculpture unique forms of continuity in space is jaw dropping, as are his paintings.

[@robbmnr8221]

@@outlawbookselleroriginal that’s interesting, do you mean a painting like, ‘nude descending a staircase,’ by Duchamp being transferred into fiction writing? If so writers like Boris Vain with his stories like ‘Blues for a black cat,’ and his novels like ‘Red Grass,’ went in that futurist direction. Or have i got it wrong and missed the point?

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

@@robbmnr8221 Well, Duchamp in this period was a Cubist, not a Futurist, then of course he launched into Dada. Vian iwas a Surrealist. All of these movements were of course related, responses to the realisation that began with the Impressionists that unless painting reconfigured itself into a more abstract artform, it would be replaced by photography which could capture the way we see our reality more specifically than representational art could. So the literary examples of these new Modernist visual movements similarly worked on undermining the idea of mimetic realism. SF does that - if it is good SF- by installing a sense of cognitive estrangement in the reader, jarring them into new ways of looking at the world. I like Vian as well, by the way.

[@brettrobson5739]

Is there something wrong with us? Again, I find myself agreeing with pretty much everything you say. These are not popular opinions. I just had a quick look at my music collection, and I own exactly one album made this century, discounting the nostalgia of buying albums from people my age. I wish it were different. I wish I didn't find most of modern culture incredibly derivative. Unfortunately, the more you know, the more obvious it is.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Yes, that's experience and that over-exposure as I said to the century or thereabouts of ever-faster innovation washing over us. Simon Reynolds in 'Retromania' makes the point that the music of 1965 is very different from 1985, but that the music of 2010 is not that different to 1995......I wish it were different too, but it may never be the same....

[@SciFiScavenger]

Nothing new under the sun, as they say. Fascinating stuff Steve.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Well yes, except as I say there was a period when things were new- but we're past it. Luckily, the debate goes on, there is a LOT of SF to explore then and now, so maybe I'll find some more things to admire from Today- I hope so, but I'm struggling.

[@samchapjoe2001]

Thanks! Steve please take care and thanks so much

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

May the steel gods of speculation bestow iron garlands upon you- in other words, you're very kind!

[@davidbooks.and.comics]

What am I reading?...just finished reading a Chinese novel, the first volume of The Legend of the Condor Heroes...you could say it is escapist but it is Eastern literature and not Western...with its Eastern type of tropes.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Yes, been selling it at work for a few years.

[@silex9837]

That was a marvelous overview of the history of SF! You have a great talent for juggling and linking concepts so clearly and effortlessly. You are also incredibly well read, so it's not surprising. Latching onto what you said about modernism being the antithesis of fantasy and anachronism: I'd be interested in what you think about some New Wave works fetishising and animating the past (e.g. Moorcock's Dancers at the End of Time)?

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

I see 'Dancers' as a bit of a romp MM did for money, an exercise in preparing for the proto-Steampuk of the Oswald Bastable books and just a bit of British Scientific Romance indulgence- Aldiss and Priest did similar things at that point ('Frankenstein Unbound' and 'The Space Machine') - Recursive SF of a very British flavour. 'Dancers' is not Fantasy, it's SF, so it's not anachronistic- it's just that the super-advanced 'science' of the End of Time appears magical. Glad you enjoyed the vid and good to hear from an MM fan.

[@danieldelvalle5004]

A wonderful shot across the bow of contemporary boredom, which passes itself off as "sci-fi". It is the perspective of reading SF to escape into reality as opposed to reading fantasy to escape reality. So I walk into my local bookshop and do not recognize any of the authors. Most of the books are either YA, fantasy or both. If I want a book by Michael Crichton, let's say The Terminal Man, it's not in stock. I could order it, but I'm told it's not a title they carry in their usual inventory. And so I'm forced to go online to Abe Books. Such is contemporary life.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Ain't that so, Daniel. Being in the sharp end of it and seeing this all swirling around me daily is all part of my journey into the abyss- more on those very points soon. Thanks again for the Roberts post, awesome.

[@thekeywitness]

Great video, Prof. Stephen. When I was recently in the USA, I wandered into a Barnes & Noble to see what they are stocking in the SF section. Naturally, most of the selection was the contemporary stuff that doesn’t interest me but I was happy to see Brunner’s Stand on Zanzibar as well as a few other worthy titles. Unfortunately SoZ has a horridly boring cover art in its current US edition. It just goes to show that publishers don’t care much about SF masterworks (aside from Gollancz!) That’s why I did all of my book shopping at secondhand shops (5 places in 2 weeks-a great indulgence!)😅

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Yeah, we're in the age of overly busy jackets- too much text on 'em...and I say this as someone who likes plain, non-illustrated liveries too.

[@MFDOOOOM]

You say aside from Gollancz but a lot of their covers are absolutely horrendous as well.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

@@MFDOOOOM Agreed- their masterworks are tolerable (and I guess that was what I was thinking of) but their new stuff-almost all dreary fantasy is pretty bad too.

[@TheSharkPadlock]

Fantastic video. I feel like I have been listening to a scholar of SF (which you are, sir!) and learning by leaps and bounds. I definitely have even more "homework" to read now.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Very kind remark, thank you. I don't claim to be in the critical front rank, but I've been around a bit.

[@heblanchard]

I think I have to respectfully disagree with the thesis - I feel like there's a lot of rhetorical slight of hand here in the claims. For example, Marinetti did not write the first Afro-futurist novel with Mafarka the Futurist (well, except with a useless trivial redefinition of 'it contains an African') - Afro-futurism has grown out of contemporary thought and social/global philosophy (and, as an aside, it's often written by Africans - which is an important aspect of 'novel' or 'modern'). This is a product of our times, our sensibilities and philosophies, with, of course, a eye toward all that's gone in the past - Afro-futurism recalls our history of futurist writing but also is a novel take and thought process unique to now. Likewise, to look at the return of space opera as, well, everything old is new again, is more slight of hand - yes, the new space opera recalls old space opera in form, less so in style, but a bit ... but again, it's very different in other ways - Iain Banks is definitely not recycled E. E. Doc Smith - that's obvious, right? At best, I can agree with the thesis to the extent that all ideas of any area of culture owes a debt and is inspired by what has gone before, but to say there's nothing new or "modern" if you will is wrong on the face of it (or, the read of it, perhaps, eh?).

[@michaeldaly1495]

Samuel Delany, Sun Ra and George Clinton seemed to be doing afro-futurism long before the contemporary period - I struggle to see how it displays a thought process 'unique to now'.

[@psychonaut5921]

@@michaeldaly1495 Right. And don't forget Osibisa, with its Roger Dean album covers---in the 70's.

[@michaeldaly1495]

@@psychonaut5921 Oh yes, great band, I did forget about them, thanks.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

You beat me to it on these examples, artists I've listened to for years- although I like Clinton's work, Sun Ra always seemed like pulp silliness with his Saturnian claims- don't get me wrong, I love Modern Jazz- another area where Modernism ended some time ago.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Thanks for your comment. I get what you are saying about authorship- authenticity is arguably important here, with people of colour/African descent/African birth-residence having a claim to being 'real' Afrofuturism, but let's look at Chronology - they've appropriated the term 'Futurism' from a European Modernist art movement that existed decades earlier-if you've not read Marinetti's novel do so, I'd say. It's also interesting how one of the most lauded 'Afrofuturist' icons of today - Wakanda, the fictional country of Marvel's Black Panther was actually created by two brilliant Jewish creators- Lee and Kirby. And of course, Wakanda is a myth that has distinct Grand Narrative flavour- a scientific/industrial powerhouse realm that is 'the most advanced society on Earth'. This is inescapably Futurist in the original sense- as I'm sure you're aware, Futurism initially allied itself to the original Italian version of Fascism and one outcome of the latter two decades later was Italy's Imperial ambition in Abyssinia (later Ethiopia), where they heinously used poison gas. Ironically, Abyssinia was an Empire too- ruled by the Emperor Haile Selassie (who ruled the country from 1930-1974). Considered divine, he was rescued from the Axis by the British- my partner's father was a crew member on the ship that brought him to live in safety in the city I reside in for the duration of WW2- I used to know someone who worked at the house in the city which is now a memorial to him. However, read 'The Emperor' by Ryszard Kapuscinski and this deity of Rastafarianism is revealed as a common or garden despot in the old European Imperial style- or rather in the style of despots everywhere through history. So even a 'sacred' African narrative of a mythical, mystical 'Back To Africa' movement to escape the West's 'Babylon' is undermined by this. In GIbson's 'Neuromancer', there is of course the wonderful sequence onboard a Rastafarian orbital colony- and when Case jacks Maelcum, one of the Rude Boys, into the Matrix, Maelcum says 'Babylon,', invoking the evil of the West- and Case's experience of the Sublime- his Romantic legacy. This is ironic, as Gibson is also clearly saying something about Case's divorce from the 'real' world. As I say, regretfully, because of the way history ran, white male SF writers got there first- Modernism, pioneering. Africa's mass literacy simply didn't exist when Genre SF got going, most narrative was oral tradition. Luckily, we've seen numerous black SF writers come up since then, from the 1930s onwards. So authors of colour are not 'novel' or 'modern' now, not new- the cardinal example is Samuel R Delany, who started publishing in the early 1960s, employed multi-ethnic characters and won Nebulas in the same decade: Modern SF tackled identity politics decades ago, as I said, it's just that a mass of the readership have never heard of him- despite his fame and vital role in SF history- and his contemporaries. This will change with the Amazon Prime adaptation of 'Nova'. Some of the recent and forthcoming Radium Age paperback series from MIT have also revealed interesting examples of non-white SF from the Scientific Romance period, worth a look. So Modernism, looked at historically, trumps contemporary Afrofuturism (chornologically), which borrows from established pioneers, though I do get your point about the 'spiritual' authenticity of authors of colour. But we're talking about Fiction- can a great author not convey the experience of racism and outsiderdom authetically? I'd say they can. My people, the Welsh, have been a subject nation and people for 700 years- like many cultures, we've experienced colonialism, it's a universal experience through history, same as slavery. All cultures have, in their time, enslaved and exploited others. Finally, style and space opera. Your point only proves my thesis: the New Wave largely abandoned Outer Space- read Ballard and Malzberg's work on astronauts- as it was a sigil of conservatism and reactionary Golden age attitudes, writers and writing. Going back to it is arguably Lowest Common Denominator, pandering to people's film and TV and gaming expectations of what 'real sci-fi' is,when the writing that spawned SF screens is so much more. But good post from you- if you want to see real rhetoric/prestidigitation at work on Space Opera, watch my interview with M John Harrison, who speaks of the irony of his late trilogy.

[@KulchurKat]

Fantastic informative video about the historical sweep of the cultural moment. The last SF of any note to me was MJH’s Empty Space - an author steeped in a Machenesque inflected Modernism. But even in that masterpiece, the sections set in the contemporary quotidian Britain seemed more interesting, more innovative to me than the SF sections, which seem to be a playful summation of space opera / cyberpunk / forbidden zone tropes.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Agreed. Do watch the M John Harrison interview posted on the channel about 2 months back. I've known MJH since the late eighties, a total star!

[@thomasrdiehl]

I think you just confuse modern with modernist. Modern in everyday usage just means current. Modernism derived its name from that, but stuff didn't stop being modern when it ended. Edit: I do take your point on lack in innovation, though. Part of that is when you look at creative writing courses, people actively get told there is no such thing as innovation anyway, which is a central tenet of post-modernism.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Thanks for your comment, but I am going to continue to disagree. I don't confuse the two at all as I'm argusing partly for a more accurate usage. The word 'Modern' is the root of 'Modernist' and the two are inextricably linked as a consequence- you wouldn't have Modernism without 'the Modern', though I did speak about the everyday usage of 'Modern'- which given history, Modernism, the history of cultural production and the way the arts reinvented themselves through the Modern, the word 'Contemporary' - which is more specific than 'Modern' in indicating 'Now'- has better, more exact usage connotation than 'Modern', as it both acts as a synonym and acknowledges the end of the Modern era. I've had these kind of semantic disagreements before- it's about the difference between exact meaning and poor usage- just because 'most people' say "Modern"- which actually indicates in some ways how they think by default because of our advanced tech that artistic innovation is still taking place- doesn't mean it's right. It's like the difference between 'Railway Station' and 'Train Station' - the first is correct, the latter is poor usage and it sounds so ungainly on the ear. Any railway expert of any kind will say 'Railway Station' (or 'Railroad Station' in the USA) because those are the original designations. Language changes, yes, but it's the subtle meanings that matter- such as the meaning of Modern from 'Just now' to an historical and cultural period. People say it out of habit. Take the cross-Atlantic difference between 'Bookshop' and 'Bookstore' - a bookshop sells books and North Americans go shopping, not storing. A bookstore is somewhere that just stores books, so even though it's long established as a usage, its meaning is incorrect in terms of shopping. But it is an old usage, hence Book Depository being a US usage that differentiates a storage facility from a retail outlet. This may sound pedantic, but to be clear about language, one often has to be very specific. Re innovation, yes, I'm aware of this- there is now a Revisionist tendency in Postmodern theory (and this is one of many reasons why 'Contemporary' is a better word to use, since innovation is inextricably linked to the Modern) to challenge the idea that there has ever been anything other than the artisanship of craft, which is clearly nonsense chronologically when you look at history- culturally and more broadly speaking-since the Enlightenment. There are some small notable examples of proto-Modernism and even proo-Postmodernism in earlier literature, but these are exceptions that prove the rule. This argument is simply part of Postmodernism's supposed 'distrust of Grand Narratives' and the Western tradition of rapid innovation merging in an Identity Politics based attack on that tradition- ironic, of course, as Postmodernism has to construct it's own Grand Narratives to do so.

[@thomasrdiehl]

@@outlawbookselleroriginal True, you did elaborate and I commented somewhat prematurely. My issue with "contemporary" is that it's relative to the respective topic (e.g. Lewis is contemporary to Tolkien), while "modern" is relative to the utterance it appears in. Thus I'd argue "contemporary" cannot replace "modern" and "modern" cannot be permanently affixed to any one period, as much as the modernists would have liked and have tried to do that.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

@@thomasrdiehl - 'Contemporary' is not just relative to the respective topic - for example, 'Lewis was a contemporary of Tolkien,' (note the A)- and of course as you know they were part of an affinity group. Contemporary is used in the sense -for example - 'our contemporary world' - it means, 'what it is happening now' in the same way as 'current'. 'Current' has dropped from favour- for example, in bookselling in the UK, it was very common to see 'Current Affairs' as a heading for a section of interdisciplinary books about just that 'current affairs'. 'Modern' in this sense is now just common parlance, where 'Current' has fallen from favour, yet 'Contemporary' allows the exclusion of the Modern period. 'The End of History and the Last Man' by Fukuyama- published in the early 90s- is another example of writing that indicates that the Modern is over and replaced by the endlessly contemporary- the Postmodern. It has been long accepted in critical thinking, human science and philosophical circles that Modern was a period that is now over.

[@unstopitable]

What you say about novelty can’t be overstated; it touches every area of life: our craving for it is itself the raison d’être of entertainment. The moment we feel like a writer has failed to do the actual work in discovering and introducing novelty, especially if he is too derivative, too imitative, we feel cheated (or at least I do). The same thing goes for fiction which is built using pre-fab ideological scaffolding-Woke Fiction. Despite grandstanding itself to be of the utmost social importance, it's usually purely derivative, but in a way that parasitically feeds off some original work (changing a character's original sex, gender, or sexual orientation, no matter how much it goes against the author's original story. Think of the difference between any number of today's gender-bending releases, and a masterpiece like The Left Hand of Darkness.) A real writer (in my not-so-humble opinion, as a writer) must crack through the Eurpoan ice crust of all that accrued cultural production in order to descend down to those benthic levels (of the collective unconscious) where all the good stuff is. But few do; it takes discipline. The true connoisseurs not only want to be entertained, they wanted that ice broken, they want to venture down into those benthic depths. Thank you, Outlaw, for another wonderful video. I greatly enjoyed it and appreciated it. There are decades of experience in it.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

I can only agree wholeheartedly and many, many thanks for your kind words.

[@waltera13]

Tight thesis right oudda gate!

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Well yes. Just watch how it upsets everyone now..unintentionally, of course.

[@waltera13]

@@outlawbookselleroriginal I thought this was dense and more focused then other times you've touched on this topic. Now I understand why you hit it hard coming out of the gate! I've already noticed in the comments some people who can't distinguish between using a filter to evaluate vs understanding the historical development of ideas through space and time. They will likely accuse you of regurgitation while clinging to academic labels minted around the time you just discussed. Excellent.

[@themojocorpse1290]

Lots of food for thought there, maybe SF like music needs kick up the backside every 20 years or so . A sex pistols if you like , I know there was nothing really new there but it did re energise the scene if know what I mean . Another fascinating episode 👍🏻

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

@@waltera13 - yeah, they'll miss the point as ever. The other videos in this area were me riffing and feeling it out, trying them as surrounding context for the SF, but I felt it needed synthesizing together at last. Cheers for this.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

@@themojocorpse1290 -Yes, but what will the kick be now, my friend? I think the Pistols did bring something new in, arguably from McClaren's Situationist background- there's a great book called 'One Chord Wonders: Power & Meaning in Punk Rock' from the 80s that was reissued a while back, looks at the semiotics of "Holidays in the Sun"- very cool.

[@ashley-r-pollard]

The nerd is strong here.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Very strong.

[@ashley-r-pollard]

My kind of nerd. @@outlawbookselleroriginal

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

@@ashley-r-pollard Thanks Ashley- it's like those dry questions writers get about fictional stardrives while on panels at cons...LOL

[@user-mc9sg9fw3w]

That was really interesting. Wonder how much AI will assist authors to come up with new ideas vs just regurgitating what it’s trained on. Hopefully we’ll see a new “modern” scene in the arts

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Well, that's an idea...with lots of implications, guess we'll see...may be good, may be bad...

[@ashley-r-pollard]

Most likely bad it your want modernist content. @@outlawbookselleroriginal

[@JozefLewitzky]

Amazing video, was looking forward to this one. The problem of the 'slowing down of the arts' has been one I thought about and discussed a lot in my own education. As you say, the usual argument for the 'new' in the last 30 years, pretty much across all the arts, is the celebration of a wider array of identities. I do agree with this, and that because of the proliferation of it, this era will probably be seen by art historians as marked by an enrichment of the Western art tradition through the unearthing and fusion of many other cultures' arts and the cultivation of LGBTQ+ and feminist works. When I've gone to art museums recently to look at contemporary works and curations, my sense is that my perspective is growing to see how the world has been highly patriarchal, euro-centric, heteronormative, imperial, colonial, capitalist, etc. I don't necessarily like the works that I see, as they often feel less intricate than, let's say, the progression of modern and post-modern works in the classic Western tradition. But many people dislike most post-modern work as well, and it's still considered an intregal part of art history. To give a steelman argument for the value of our current phase, I believe we're still mostly in the 'gathering materials' phase of the next movements in art, which will likely synthesize works that come from the many traditions being currently unearthed (African, indigenous, black, latin American, indian, east asian, etc). Yes, each individual book that starts using they/them pronouns, or non-eurocentric fantasy novel, or book that has a diverse cast isn't that innovative or interesting on its own, but they are each laying groundwork that will start to be synthesized into new masterworks that take much of this for granted - allowing artists to speak from a new generation with its new norms. For myself, I'm not well-versed enough in science fiction history to know for certain, but there are hints of newness of this sort in much of the contemporary SF I read. For example, in Becky Chambers, not only do we have casual non-binary characters, but we have a look at 'solarpunk' futures, which while not new, have few well-known works that I'm aware of at least. This shows care for current concerns like climate change as connected to a 'gay space luxury communism' as some leftists like to joke. Martine's A Memory Called Empire, as another example, shows how an Aztec-inspired space federation might look like, as one attempt to look past the often eurocentric visions of the future.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

I think you're presenting an optimistic and constructive view of the future of SF- which is to your credit- but I think the real issue when one has read a lot of it and studied its development is that its core is inextricably linked in an historical sense to the Enlightenment, the Industrial Revolution and Modernism because those moments explain how SF arose and became a thing: it was both a response to, an illustration of and a key cultural development around innovation in thought, technology and art becoming non-representational. Unfortunately, all this -SF and these triggers for it- hapenned before and during the slow rise of multiculturalism, feminism and so on, so it is partially and accident of History that SF is inextricably linked to these things, which is what allowed (primarily) white European men to largely monopolise the genre in its initial 60 odd years of innovation before Postmodernism kicked in and artistic change slowed down. Having said that Delany has pointed out how we don't know the identities - gender, racial, whatever- of the vast mass of pulp writers (especially before 1925 when the genre was named). Also, there have been hugely important female writers in the genre from the start- from Shelley to C L Moore and Leigh Brackett, from Judith Merrill to LeGuin and Russ. The fact is that Feminism, Identity Politics, Gender issues and Multiculturalism were tackled in SF in major ways in the 1960s and 1970s- it's just that younger, less experienced readers think that because these things are zeitgeist now, that they are 'New' in SF: they've not. The majority of SF writers until that point- and readers- were white European men (but not all right wing, patriarchal or straight) because that is where political history was at that point. Those guys got there first, before most women, before most people of colour- and as for sexuality, as people only came out of closets in major ways from the late 1960s on (remember, it was illegal to be homosexual even in most liberal countries then) we can't really say about that aspect - Clarke, Burroughs, Delany, Russ and others were gay or bisexual at the least. Identity Politics is not new in SF, in the same way that 'Cli-Fi' isn't new. The real issue is that finding of truly new innovative things to say and that's where the real problem for SF is: and that's where the writers of the last 30 years have struggled and are struggling more. You mention Becky Chambers- other than a touchy-feely vision of hope and human kindness, what 'new thing' is she offering? Well, Maureen F McHugh did it in the early 90s. Like Philip K Dick said, 'Space Fantasy isn't SF,' and she really is not offering us a Conceptual Breakthrough, just a reflection of the Utopianism people believe will come out of Identity Politics, there is no bucket of water in the face in her stories, just a cosy blanket. It won't happen- because it's not a person's identity that matters, but their individuality, which can be anything- being in a 'minority' doesn't immediately mean you're virtuous, not does (theoretically) being of the mainstream mean you're bad. The most dangerous thing that comes out of these assumptions is Orthodoxy- Orwell understood this, which is why 'Nineteen Eighty-Four' remains super-relevant. I sincerely hope you are right, but I have to say that your very words of a new synthesis refers only to a new Grand Narrative, a Postmodern one of the endless play of surfaces, collage and pastiche. It isn't Modern, it's simply artisanship. SF spoke from outside 'Norms' even when it echoed developments in the Western Tradition-it was Outsider Art until 'Star Wars' dragged it into the mainstream and into the infantile gutter. The Identity Politics led SF of today can, sadly, be reduced to publishers virtue signalling by focusing on 'diversity' that is OK as long as we're all the same within the diversity: they're not understanding that to be diverse, you have to allow exclusivity as much as inclusivity.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

As for the Aztec thing, by the way, Christopher Evans did this in 'Aztec Century' in 1994. Thanks for your comment, by the way, but to convince me- and I am willing, believe me- you'll have to come up with something genuinely New. Remember I've worked in selling SF books for decades and am familiar with all the currently 'hot' properties like Martine and Chambers. I'd say read some backlist, look at who pioneered ideas first and when, then think again- and of recent SF, I'd recommend Adam Roberts to you: 'The Thing Itself' and 'Purgatory Mount' are very worth a look. Thanks again and take care, I love your enthusiasm and eloquence.

[@JozefLewitzky]

@@outlawbookselleroriginal Stellar response. First, I wanted to acknowledge that I agree with almost everything you've said, just wanted to add a bit more. My feeling, to make a comparison to music, is that Science Fiction has already completed its classical, Jazz, and probably Rock phases. I don't think people expect new composers of music to outdo the classical ones in that style, but people will admit that music did evolve past it in a different way. So, in a way, it depends on your standard. Looking at newer formers of art, like video games, to take a fresh example, have almost their entire history in the last 50 years. It would be strange to say nothing new is happening with them in the last 30 years, and so historians looking through video game history will likely have a lot of say about their development. The same goes for social media such as KZbin videos. Currently, the two mediums are still relatively 'outsider' in the sense of not respected by 'the establishment' - but I think it's highly likely they'll get their due eventually. When we look back at the novel, many literary critics of the form argue that the novel peaked in the 1800s, and that after 1900, there is almost nothing new under the sun. Which would be strange to say for science fiction and fantasy as genres, as they had barely begun at that point! Imo, having a certain standard of looking at what a novel is prevents seeing the 'newness' of novels post-1900 for those critics. I wouldn't even necessarily say they're wrong based on their own criteria for what they consider 'new' in novels, but there is something much too sweeping of a generalization to say there is nothing new happening since 1900.

[@JozefLewitzky]

@@outlawbookselleroriginal Added your suggestions to my list! Thank you for taking the time to write excellent replies. I like older SF and newer about equally, but I'm nowhere near as well-read, so a lot of the newer stuff is genuinely new to me, and the style of writing is often more comfortable for me than some older works.

[@psychonaut5921]

@@outlawbookselleroriginal Just on a side note, Harry Harrison did the Aztec thing in 1969, in his book Captive Universe. Great book, one of my favorites by the author. You're absolutely right, of course: there's nothing NEW going on in the SF world, there hasn't been for a LONG time. The problem with these Millennials is they think nothing of value came before them, it was all just the evil old "Patriarchy", whatever...