YouTube doesn't kill our channels, we do

[@theDMLair]

👉 Dungeon Drifters | The competitive dungeon exploration game where opportunistic "heroes" race to defeat enemies, pocket the most loot, and escape the dungeon first! presale.dungeondrifters.com/

[@thezyreick4289]

are you a magician? you pinned this message 20 hours ago on a video that is 4 hours old xD

[@jbrone1241]

This is why I try to always try to write a comment on dm lair plays. I enjoy your videos and want to increase your success and train YT algorithm to send more people.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Based. Just before I watched this video I was testing my new audio equipment. It's like D&D--you gotta equip properly. And it never ends. Evolve or die. Best of luck, my KZbin brother!

[@blacklodgegames]

Regarding PDM and clickbait, it's only "bait" if you do a bait and switch and don't deliver on the promise of the thumbnail and title. His thumbnails and titles are about the content he talks about and he offers his unique perspective on it. THAT is why people keep watching his "click bait" videos. People don't want to believe this, but KZbin is actually really good at punishing actual click bait. It used to be a huge problem but no longer is.

[@Subject_Keter]

​@@blacklodgegames I remember the homebrew he did was bad. The thesis was off, ai in the thumbnail and.. it was just weird? Like spending 5k to make a pure cookie but not learning how to bake first.

[@blacklodgegames]

@@Subject_Keter I found his channel because of his video about ditching initiative and then I binge watched a ton of the other videos. That was a signal to KZbin to always show me his new releases

[@broke_af_games9661]

You're right for what happens when the subject matter just becomes too niche? Covid did a lot for D&D as you have put it in your videos... But people just aren't showing up as much as they were. Is there a chance D&D videos on KZbin will eventually just become an unviable full-time job?

[@agosto310]

@@blacklodgegames I absolutely enjoy seeing the super obvious clickbaity title on his videos and seeing how is going to twist it to pull the most egregious dad joke on us, and then deliver some amazing content or interesting info.

[@lancelotscart582]

Cody (from Taking20) is now doing full-time work in real estate (although I like to think he still has time to game!).

[@tscoff]

Thank you for that good news. I miss his channel!

[@ernieevans2690]

it breaks my heart a bit, because his style of teaching was worth soaking up every vid, I still go back and watch.

[@Joshuazx]

I miss Cody!

[@keithr9640]

Glad he’s doing well but I do miss his channel. It was my favorite role playing channel.

[@Joshuazx]

If you know the man (Cody), maybe ask him drop a quick video for old time's sake?

[@scrapperlock9437]

5:55 - "If there's content you don't want to watch, do you want KZbin pushing it on you? No, you don't." OK, but KZbin pushes content on me that I don't want to watch *all the time*. Meanwhile, it refuses to notify me of stuff I've asked to be notified when there's a post. Just because I didn't watch the last video you made because I was busy, doesn't mean I don't want to see the next one. If I didn't want to see it I would unsubscribe. I'm sick of KZbin deciding whether I want to see the content I subscribed to or not.

[@ArDeeMee]

1: Block channels you dislike. 2: Use the subscription tab. I have a notifications disabled by default, hate it. I just check the channels once a day.

[@MrCUSTREL]

Not only that, when I do "block" channels or tell youtube not to ever recommend that channel again, it will still leak into my feed anyway.

[@SirZelean]

@@MrCUSTREL Yeah, happened to me today. I'm pretty sure I blocked it before when they got into a petty youtube drama.

[@ArDeeMee]

@@MrCUSTREL Huh. That’s never happened to me before, but I have heard of it. That sucks…

[@einCAA]

Finally, someone in the comments talking about a thing that some KZbinrs have mentioned in the past, Notifications. How do you use KZbin? There literally is a subscription tab - AND I've never seen any notifications whatsoever

[@davidnystrom9059]

Truly sage advice, sir. I’m typically a lurker, not one to comment unless it hits me hard, but I really appreciate when creators take time to be transparent like this. I watch your channel because it popped up one day in my “For You” feed and I loved your takes on topics but also your energy and personality. For what it’s worth, keep being you and it’ll continue to succeed. I’m a casual DnD player/GM who wants to be more. I’ve been in two games and tried running a couple more with my wife and son, but never had a “successful” game. Haha. I take a lot of your ideas though, and use it for better storytelling (as I’m a writer at heart) and game design for the little things I tinker with. Thank you for the honest talk and great opinions. I’ll be here clicking like for as long as you’ll be around.

[@TakaD20]

KZbin is killing KZbin

[@LanithirCF]

Bold of you to point out that the situation here is a lot more nuanced and grounded in mundane, realistic factors rather than confirming everybody's preconceived notions and anti-corporate biases.

[@robertmccutcheon3174]

I think people just get nostalgic for the beginning of all this when Web 2.0 allowed you to create content and people just found it and interacted without a monetized curator gatekeeping. An internet without monetization was never going to last but for a few years it was a really nice way to find people like yourself.

[@SerifSansSerif]

@Gliiitchy Yeah, it's the career bit. We used to call those people out as being the ones that were encouraging the company to monetize as "content creators" Monetization may always have been planned, but there's ways around it and different ways to do it. There's so much to this discussion that a youtube comment simply cannot do it justice.

[@slycoop1997]

I used to watch How to Be a Great GM frequently, but I eventually became frustrated with the length of his videos and the tangents that contributed to their bloated length. When I stopped clicking on his videos, KZbin stopped recommending them to me. This explanation makes sense, but it does feel bad. I don't know if he ever improved in that aspect because I didn't go out of my way to look up his channel again. It seems like this algorithm problem is easy to fall into but difficult to pull a channel out of.

[@Subject_Keter]

Meanwhile youtube keeps sending me this guy xox I think DM Lair can improve but man, that "what they dont tell you about magic items" was so bad it made the finger eaters seem normal .

[@adrianwebster6923]

Yep. I've basically stopped watching videos over 20 minutes on almost any topic. If I'm truly captivated I will click on the next video in a series on the topic but up front, no I am not committing to watching 60+ minute videos.

[@RasAlCool]

Same thing for me. I listened to them a lot, but eventually I found that either the information started getting repetitive (or outright wrong in one video) and the lengths were too long so I eventually just stopped watching.

[@dorianleakey]

KZbin doesnt just stop recommendintg things when we stop clicking, its more thayt if we dont click in the first few hours of upload it buries them, that is simply a fact. You wouldnt know about shorter videos that did fit what you wanted, because its an undeniable fact that youtube wont neccasarily reccoment them. even when we are hearing Luke talk about constantly having to innovate and try new thumbnails is actually an indictment of youtube. the algorthim should be fixed, not only show us what is already popular and burying what is not. Fopr instance, i regret leaving a comment here, because i am supporting Lukes view that its OK when stupid broken companies like youtube that only exist through brand recongnition but are otherwise useless make things harder, becasue its an algorithm screwing viewers and creators alike not a person.

[@Fo0tie]

Usually I let me generate AI summaries of the long videos.

[@Immudzen]

I think part of the problem that D&D channels have is that after a while they have covered almost everything for D&D. After you have watched hundreds of videos on the topic you just don't need as many anymore. When a new edition comes out there is more stuff to talk about and theorycraft on but even that has limits. You also have the behavior of the company that is doing everything they can to kill any community around the game.

[@Subject_Keter]

Or you get like Dungeon dudes, they could of had a gold mine covering add on subclasses but only did it for Grim Hollow like w h y?

[@imayb1]

I disagree. I've been GMing since 2E and I'm often inspired by watching D&D content on YT. Many creators have a slightly different take on a subject, or a twist to offer that I can incorporate into my games, or prep, or social interactions with people. For me, watching D&D content gives me fresh ideas all the time. Of course there is repetition -- some good advice is almost universal -- but watch for those nuggets that cause you to think about your craft.

[@Immudzen]

@@imayb1 what I mean is that any one creator only has so many ideas before they run out. After they have made hundreds of videos you have basically gotten all the DM and player advice you can get from them. While you may get something else out of a different creator with a fresh perspective there is only so much you get from one person. Some of these creators have made a thousand videos on the subject, many of them just seem to be tapped out.

[@kquixotic]

Thank you for layout out the reality of how temporary KZbin success is, like all things. It was uplifting to have you embrace your destiny being solely in your own hands.

[@barge489]

WebDM still does podcasts on their patreon and it seems to be doing well for them. Pruitt stepped away after weird wastelands, but he pops back in now.

[@williamatkins3465]

You have to look at as a TV show. They all end. Whether that's after 3 episodes or 11 seasons.

[@mattw6993]

@@williamatkins3465 or six seasons and a movie!

[@GameMasterDude230]

Luke I’d like to take this time to thank you for All the content you have provided and the future content you will provide. I value utubers that provide content that helps the TTRPG community/industry. It’s a testament to how much you care and are passionate about our hobby. So in as much as I know one day you may hang up your hat and move on. I will always appreciate what you and others are doing to help this hobby. Like you I grew up with it and it means a lot to me. I game master twice a month and many of your videos and products have helped me make my games better. I don’t like to see content creators leave, but it happens. I hope to see your content for a lot longer.

[@LordOz3]

I wonder if the number of channels growing faster than the number of veiwers (as a ratio) is part of the problem. Viewing time is a finite resource, and if it is getting split up more, someone's viewership is going down. For example, if channels grow 100% but viewers only grow 50%, some channels are getting left out, which can trigger the algorithm and exacerbate this problem.

[@leatherguru8904]

YT greed is the problem

[@NevisYsbryd]

That is certainly part of it. The market is oversaturated and the bubble of more people playing during the lockdowns guaranteed that there was going through be a major decline in views and money circling the industry. Firms exit the industry (read: channels and creators quit). I predicted this years ago. On the other hand, the way the KZbin algorithms work is very not conducive to these types of channels or content if money and growth are your goals.

[@John-Dennehy]

There is so much content I used to consume, then stopped as it stopped being interesting to me. That includes some of the channels mentioned here. It is right to expect KZbin not to manipulate what we see, but having an algorithm that is based on what content we actually engage with, isn't malicious.

[@Arufonsa1]

I don’t think anybody is saying it is. It’s just not conducive to free and open content creation.

[@GentlemenofAction]

Good video. As a former creator, I appreciate bringing attention to what the creator life is really like

[@MagusBunnyMom]

I remember seeing one of those KZbin is killing my channel videos on someone I use to watch. Didn't actually watch the video itself, but it got me thinking how I hadn't watched any of his video in awhile. Mostly because his videos tended to be long and I was not interested enough in the subject to do more than just add to watch later.

[@BLynn]

So, I do not rely on the algorithm, if I subscribe to a channel I go to my list of subscriptions & add the videos I intend to watch to a playlist & then watch the playlist. Really long videos I put sort to the bottom of the playlist or I may not add at all, but few of the videos my presenters post get overlooked because of my practices.

[@ThreeFootGood]

I very much enjoy these videos that you make, that are not productions. That are just you talking about topics that are important to you, and to us.

[@theDMLair]

Thank you! I'm planning to more of these, probably one every Saturday. There's so much TTRPG stuff I can talk about and have opinions on that aren't really GM-related.

[@Megalojohn33]

I really like Guy's new channel where he goes to ancient ruins and tells the actual history as well as game ideas from the place. It is a great idea and helps with finding a new way of helping with content for our games. With him living in England, it gives him a leg up on American KZbinrs. I also think that the proliferation of new TTRPs has also hurt D&D KZbin. With many new games and WotC's ability to consistently piss off the community, I feel that game neutral content may be the way to go. I have Pathfinder, Chaosium, Savage Worlds, and now Cypher System. I no longer have any D&D materials in my home. I love the variation of genres that most of these systems allow and supporting companies that run with the best interests of the players at heart.

[@AceneDean]

Yes. This. More TTRPG, less "dungeon tube".

[@Sycis357]

Out of curiosity. Views of over half the video length, subscribing, liking videos, and commenting gives the algorithm the criteria it wants to see. But does the length of a comment matter? For example if I had no real comment to add, either because of time constraints or someone’s already posted what you wanted to say, would commenting a “.” or even “❤” feed into the algorithms criteria of engagement? Love the content that you and the other channels put out there. I look forward to hopefully many more years.

[@wapper7777]

Luke you are a smart boy and you don’t suck. You are one of my favorite dnd KZbinrs… in fact I like the way you describe things so much I read any sort of text description I come across in your voice 😂 I love just the inflections you do. You know what I mean?

[@monkeySkulls]

this is very well said. with the other channels when they bring this topic up, over the last few months, I often think about what you are saying here. but you said it better than I could have.

[@5strokeBrain]

Thank you, Luke! I hope your channel stays up for at least a few more years too. I've love you stuff and I'm really looking forward to receiving my new books , Lair & Legends in the next couple months :)

[@lighthadoqdawg]

I'm glad I finally got around to watching this. I hate to say it, but all the channels that had made farewell videos are channels that I as a viewer weren't watching on the regular anymore. It's not youtube killing these channels. We're apparently not watching them anymore.

[@theDMLair]

Exactly, and that's the channels fault.

[@NEKOEVE]

Glad you said it. You gotta make content people want to click, then watch most of it at least. The algorithm brings in new users, but when your subscribers stop watching your videos, your numbers are going to plummet.

[@Dissent1]

Please accept one (1) algorithmic engagement token

[@ArDeeMee]

I‘ll chip in as well! (2)

[@eodredlionheart3256]

you are correct, your content fell off my feed, so I thought you had quit or took a break. I sought your channel out to check and watched a video and BEHOLD, your content is in my feed again. I hope people will seek out the channels they love even if it's not in their feed! It honestly wasn't your content or icon making ability. I was on a different streak for a while watching other videos on other subjects, it doesn't take long for content to drop off a feed.

[@maxhurst9878]

Like you said Luke, it's all about continuing to grow yourself. That's why I continue to watch your channel and others to grow my skills even after 3 years of Dming. I really value your videos and the information you provide

[@MtGYoungMage]

I find that a lot of D&D content most people like to watch is either 1. Short, straight to the point advice or 2. Full length gameplay you like to have running in the background while you're doing something else. When the advice videos become too long or have too many subjects, people just don't have time for that. The channels that are dying are not acknowledging the amount of time viewers want to give to the content.

[@steveblunden2295]

@@MtGYoungMage This is so true. Most of the time I watch KZbin is when I am waking up - and I don't want to spend an hour doing that!!

[@ArDeeMee]

@@MtGYoungMage Also, it’s not necessarily that I‘m not interested in listening to three hours of deep analysis. I just need clearly defined chapters - and that’s where the 15 minute videos shine.

[@lorekeeper685]

I had dipped from a few d&d channels mainly 5e who became same-y And I had hit my sub limit mainly to subscribe to rain world channel.

[@Redjoy123]

It's having an internal locus of control, which in many cases leads to being more responsible and mature, over having an external locus of control, which comes off as not acting responsible for our own actions. I don't think anyone who has needed to move on from KZbin has only blamed the algorithm (which you didn't say) but just blaming KZbin and not ourselves when we have to go isn't healthy. Funny how folks don't attribute those external factors to our successes in the same way (okay, maybe some do). Like saying "Yeah, my channel did well, but only because the algorithm made it work!" No, we (often rightly) attribute our success to ourselves and we should do the same for our failures. I know for me, I'm growing and I have A LOT to grow in my channel, but it's MY own success and it will be MY own failure when it inevitably folds and fails. I'm just hoping to make a nice little niche corner of KZbin in order to hold on. I also really liked what you said about having a backup plan. KZbin is like any entertainment avenue, having a dayjob or another way to pay the bills is absolutely necessary. Put the stuff out there, put effort into it, and reap those successes! I'm getting my very first "Baby KZbin Payment" this month and I am proud of the work I've done, but it pales in necessity compared to my job as a teacher (well, society might think so, my students... not so much!). The success or failure of KZbin should not be the basket for all eggs to be kept in; no shame if it is for some folks, but you better work as hard as the rest of us do to make yourself profitable. Great video, you rock!

[@LeonardAndHisBiscuit]

I'm not a fan of clickbait titles and thumbnails. I get that you have to adapt, but it really does feel like a spiral down into the cesspools of humanity. Shadiversity has been getting bad with it lately, and I get it- I really do, just... I mean it's not even that clickbait titles and thumbnails actually work for the audiences tuning into these creators, it's that the algorithm 'knows' it does based on larger slop channels and applies it universally.

[@kurtoogle4576]

I like Luke & The DM Lair because he's creative, funny, informative, doesn't take himself too seriously, and actually plays the games he talks about. Gotta walk the walk and all. ;)

[@MeMyselfI-BSG]

Very mature perspective.

[@pyhriel]

I appreciate your take on this, and I do agree that in some way or another you do always have agency (up to a point) in presenting the content you produce in the most alluring manner possible to maximize your chances. I guess the place I slightly disagree, is about how KZbin recommends things, especially the ones from my subscribed channels, where it will sometimes skip recommending me a video that I'd totally be interested in but because it didn't perform up to the KZbin algorithm metrics it doesn't push it. Also, I'd say that the KZbin algorithm seems to force viewers in an unhealthy relationship with the creators they enjoy, by putting weird rules up on how viewers show their interest. For example, I'm not really a "day one guy", I watch things when I feel like it and it doesn't mean that I was not interested in the content if I didn't click on a video the first time it is presented to me, I might just've not been in the mood at the time. Unfortunately there seems to be a "first hour" rule that is used to show how much something is desired by viewers. That sorta coerces the viewers to be on watch for their favorite creators content so they will view it as soon as possible to help the creators channel, because you eventually learn to like the creators and you want their channel to continue. Anyway, I this channel has provided me with interesting ideas and thought experiments as a DM, and I hope it continues to do well. Have a nice one.

[@Gwalothel]

Finally a grounded take on the comings and goings of channels. Thanks.

[@zarathudoo]

Sometimes you fail the Save, other times you get that Critical Success. Looking forward to the next set of books.

[@RavenloftLore]

Thats why i changed my style and went to something more evergreen, and Ravenloft. Ill go as far as I can, but its not somehting that will ever stop. Kudos to you being invested in your channel and rolling with the changes.

[@SweSuf]

Realism! You're not cold, just realistic. We all live in the real world, KZbin creators as well (which I'm not), and are subject to some version of "survival of the fittest". Some factors you can affect, but then there's all that will just happen to you. With wit AND luck you can thrive for a while, but as soon as one of them run out, you're in for it.

[@MightyBjorn]

I've covered this subject myself and have a several thoughts on said subject. I feel it has less to do with youtube and more to do with factors related to the channel content. While the quality of said creators videos had improved, the quality of their content has gone down. Professor DM is a great example of this very thought. Finally, my has been seeing growth but their channels are hitting rock bottom. That being said, mine channel is small but yt isn't trying to kill my channel off. Anyway, best of luck to you.

[@auronhale1404]

We shouldn't get mad at people for click baiting. If it's too much, every viewer has the option to unfollow/unsub. This was a very honest video!

[@DaileyDoseOfJoseph]

Guy ending his channel really shattered a part of me that I didn't wholly know was there. I love him so much, but I'm happy you're here, too.

[@frankprendergast8020]

Don't live beyond your means. Don't be greedy. Do plan for the future if what you doing now is short term. Have a backup plan.

[@FixDnD]

Kind of sad that honesty is not enough to make you a living. And it’s interesting, that more people want to watch content, thats !just! entertaining. For me you offer rich, educative content + you look for the real joy that could come with TTRPGs and healthy roleplay. What I want to say is: thank you Luke

[@mattalling4299]

Entertainment / media, like everything else in life, is cyclical. Shows come and go, averaging about 7 to 8 seasons, music styles that are popular seem to change about every 8 years or so, etc. Trends come and go, and it has an effect on us all the time. In television, shows fade when they run out of ideas, are put up against other shows with high viewership, or just aren't well written. It's rare to see a show that lasts for 10 or more years, and i believe it's the same with most content channels, because even the most creative of teams are going to run out of ideas eventually. Like all the other people that subscribe to your channel, I love to play D&D and have a campaign that I hope will last for years. While I understand that there is lots of stuff to talk about for D&D, it's still somewhat finite in nature, and eventually, we end up covering all the topics that are relevant to the scope of the pages we create and must move on. In business, this is called an exit strategy and can be crucial to the end of a business or anything that has a shelflife. Some creators will create new channels and focus on other things they are passionate about, ultimately reinventing what they do with a new channel and focus, and others will go back to the world of 9 to 5. Ultimately, anyone involved in entertainment in any way at all, should be thinking about what's next because, yes, this is normal.

[@israelmorales4249]

I think you are correct! I wish a long live to your channel And to be fair, i think your channel have very honourably avoided falling into click bait, and your content is generally faithful to your principles and objectives....I think that in part it is because you are not on X (Tweeter)

[@mixofreak]

Another thing is that so many KZbinrs keep telling people to turn the bell to All Notifications on a channel, but so many channels request that, and it floods email with notifications, instead of just KZbin itself. So many people-for some strange reason-don't subscribe at all, so I get trying to get them to make sure they do... but people do not need to do that. They literally just have to click their Subscriptions tab to see *ALL* that they have subscribed to. It still recommends there, even if not on the home page, if a video is getting buried on the home page. I rarely ever even visit the home page anymore, and the only things I miss out on are community posts that I'm not a member of in the first place. I would absolutely prefer if KZbin gave sorting options, especially calendar options on the Subscriptions page for when I'm out of town or offline for some reason or another, but generally, I can just scroll down to get what I missed. Unfortunately, sometimes it loops the same section, and I have to refresh the page and try again, but that usually only happens if I miss out on two days of videos, and I'm subscribed to a few hundred channels. Not everyone updates daily, and not eeveryone posts the content I want to see the most, but I still can sort through what I choose to open or playlist it or copy the link to watch later.

[@DM-CW]

Webdm went to patreon only content. I am surprised they don't have a delayed release schedule to KZbin though

[@sleepinggiant4062]

Agreed. KZbin is partially responsible because they control what the algorithm does. Comment for the algorithm!

[@HeatherVerhagen]

Something Ive noticed is that there must be a glitch re which channels we are subscribed to on KZbin. I didnt see any videos by Realmsmith, CN or the Dungeon Coach for a long time, so I looked them up and found I wasnt subscribed to their channels. If you are missing certian creators make sure you double check your subscriptions, fellow DMs. We want to support everyone. (As Im tying this Im having to go check on Matt Perkins. I love his advice for LMoP.)

[@kojodnd]

As someone who's trying to dip their toes into DND KZbin content creation I started learning the importance of click bait algorithm pleasing from day one. My first video did the best because the title was click baity and because I had mentioned Matt Mercer and the algorithm picked up on those things. You said it best, trends play a big role and if content creators aren't keeping up it can really harm a channel. Though I'm still new I'm learning this fact from other KZbin channels I'm a fan of. Thanks for the video, among all the uplifting "go ahead and just put yourself out there" advice people give it's also good to hear a more grounded take on the finality of content creation.

[@1979fsa]

The algoritm rewards clickbait not content or consistency. That's why is unfair to blame (only) the creator themself for their failure.

[@themanonthewall7029]

All things have there time every thing ends eventually just be grateful as I am that we had and have such wonderful people to enjoy the hobbie we all love.

[@mntineer6347]

I believe you're mostly correct. I think many channels hit at the right time, and then drop off for various reasons. Remember Dungeon Bastard? If you don't, then point made with this video. I've been watching D&D YT for years, and I can tell you the landscape constantly changes.

[@dashua1735]

To those who want to watch content that you actually wanna watch, stop watching content that KZbin recommends to you. There is a subscription box on KZbin, and it always gives you the latest content from channels that you are subscribed to. Stick to the subscription feed and you will always find content that you wanna watch.

[@LeonardHarris]

The algorithm is horribly broken. I've never heard of any of these channels that are going under, yet they're exactly the. kind of thing I watch on YT.

[@zen9209]

i hope your around for a long time. your videos are so helpful and inspiring. i got you book bundle this year and wow so great the content and so well organized and the print quality fantastic i can tell you put a lot of passion in to them.

[@clubjer]

"Clickbait" is, according to Merriman Webster is, "designed to make readers want to click on a hyperlink especially when the link leads to content of dubious value or interest." A sensational title or thumbnail that has nothing to do with the content is clickbait, a sensational title or thumbnail that is clearly addressed in the content is not. The thumbnail is basically advertising the video. I seriously wonder why this is so hard to comprehend.

[@briandixon9140]

So many people decry click bait videos, and yet aren't watching the non click bait items, which is why they are only seeing the click bait.

[@Minodrec]

They arent the same ppl tho.

[@briandixon9140]

@Minodrec have you read Professor DM's comment section? They can be the same people.

[@VABrowncoat]

It’s sad to see them go. I have been watching Man Shorts since the beginning and it was a weekly watch for the wife and I. I used to watch how to be a great GM, but after I gleaned what I found useful I moved on. As Professor DM said, at some point you have to pivot to stay viable. Unfortunately HTBAGGM didn’t.

[@TheSwamper]

So when Guy said that the person at the YT office told him they would no longer be promoting his videos...? Are you saying he lied? That he misunderstood?

[@josephmoon6261]

Sounds like the algorithm needs to change. I want the algorithm to give me things I want to watch, and it isn't. Because I have to try and figure out if the video I'm about to watch is only click bait, or is actually going to give me info about what I'm interested in.

[@shadyopps9284]

It’s really like that yes, and I miss those guys too… God Bless

[@willbrashear]

KZbin does engage in practices similar to what is commonly referred to as “shadowbanning,” though the platform does not officially use this term. A shadowban happens when a channel or content is algorithmically suppressed without notifying the creator. This suppression can lead to reduced visibility in search results, fewer recommendations, and limited notifications sent to subscribers. However, it’s essential to differentiate between actual shadowbanning and normal engagement fluctuations caused by other factors like audience behavior or algorithm updates.

[@MrBracey100]

More KZbinrs should have this outlook instead of whining and begging as things drop off. I've seen many either reinvent themselves or create merch or promote other projects to stay solvent using YT. You have to be flexible as an entrepreneur.

[@theseel6528]

Hello! Are you still focused on pathfinder 2e over DND? I just wanted to see how your journey is going

[@Max_G4]

From what I've heard in a video or 2 I watched of his recently, he does mention his PF2 group sometimes

[@goaftertheway]

This and Cody are (were) my favorite. I wish Cody would post an update.

[@farnorthtokers9333]

had me since "Ive been high since dungeon master school" Here's Tokin DM Lair!

[@ChrisHarperBooks]

I can live with click-baity thumbnails and titles...as long as there is something i enjoy on the other side. When i start to see a patern of not putting in effort with the actual video, then i just dump the creator. I got finite time in my life, i don't have time to hear someone's 300th rant about Habro or someone who rambles on for 30 minutes but says very little.

[@BlaxeFrost-X]

That's the effect of looking at death... I don't want to be too serious, but when my aunt and granpa died, my mom looked at death in the face, and she's constantly preparing for when that happens to her. We all get moving whenever we notice that we are going to... end. Death happens to anything, sooner or later, trends, systems, objects, living beings. Memento Mori.

[@RyuuKageDesu]

The video does have an important point. Though, we are in the age of Shadow Banns and KZbin lawsuits. I also find it fascinating that a number of these channels have closed shop around the time that the official D&D channel started to be heavily pushed on my suggestions.

[@simflyer9955]

I used to watch How to be a great GM, but my interests are straight to the point tips and tricks that can help me with my own prep. When the video lenght gets a bit too long for my taste, and content a bit too theatrical sometimes (imo) I just stop watching. But there were a lot of very good videos also, so I hope Guy have luck with his new YT channels. Best of luck to him.

[@JakobKobberholm]

I largely agree with the point of the video, especially when it comes to taking responsibility for your own content and not see yourself as a victim, but that is leaving out some important context. 5:39 I think it is an oversimplification, to say that content that isn't playing the algorithm game well, is the same as content you don't want to watch. Let's say two videos are uploaded at the same time. Both are good, but one is slightly better because the author spent 30 extra minutes checking the script for errors and citing his sources, while the other author spent the 30 minutes making a thumbnail with a beautiful woman, sensational text and lots of arrows. We all know that the thumbnail work gets rewarded, while the improved quality does not. That wasn't the "best" video that won out. Deceptive marketing won! There was no Sydney Sweeney bikini malfunction in the D&D video I clicked :( We don't rank movies on a single axis, like jumpscares-per-minute and expect every movie to compete on that single metric. There is something to be said for not ONLY recommending the lowest common denominator ALL THE TIME. I suspect that only watching the sensational over dramatized TikTok style of easily digestible content has the same effect on our minds, as having a diet of only cakes and fast-food would have on our bodies. The way KZbin is ranking videos, is like a school cafeteria ranking food by calorie density and only serving brownies and ice cream. It would probably be better if it mixed in some videos high in information density and originality, along with the sugar-filled slob. I don't think it is a good idea to only rank videos based on how well they can ride the algorithm. Especially now, that AI is gobbling up all the content, it is possible to feed the transcript into ChatGPT and get an assessment of how much actual information is contained in the video and KZbin could, if they wanted to, add other factors, such as originality, quality, density of information, to the ranking of the videos. So while it might not be KZbin deliberately pushing a button to kill a channel, they have set up the rules of the game and could make rules that rewarded other things, if they wanted to.

[@MrCUSTREL]

The main problem is there are so many youtubers publishing the exact same content. How many "guess what WOTC just DID" or "Elon said this!" or "build a better warlock" videos can you watch? It seems like every other DnD channel does it, and they are all reading from the same articles or press releases and providing very little, if any, actual original content you can't get on ten other channels.

[@zoombronco]

Underrated comment ✨

[@morsuljyn-dm]

Agree with another commenter that this is an underrated comment... but sadly, a similar algorithm determines which comments float to the top and if you post late you have slim chance of topping the first comments that receive several likes.

[@JakobKobberholm]

@@morsuljyn-dm I'm being oppressed by the algorithm :)

[@jonathanosborne7509]

I refer to your videos to keep in mind the tactics of being a GM; if the channel starts to slow down, I'd like to see recordings of your games, as alot can be learned from watching the tactics in action. Thanks

[@dallassukerkin6878]

I don't agree with what you said here really - the algorithm is poor and has actually gotten worse over time. I have tried kicking it to be better a couple of times by deleting my watch history and so on but the only thing that works is to keep my own list of channels I like and electing to go and find their recent output.

[@bakuiel1901]

I appreciate your sayings because I got the impression from Guy that someone told him KZbin wouldn't promote his videos anymore

[@morsuljyn-dm]

IDK about KZbin not recommending stuff I don't want to watch: It has been showing me a certain video that I have absolutely NO interest in, and I have clicked around it for two weeks, yet it's still being shown to me. And this isn't the first time.

[@kwith]

This is why being a KZbinr or Influencer is a bad idea for a career. The volatility of the "job" makes it not worthwhile unless you are supplementing it with some additional income via a business that can either be or not be tied to the KZbin account. But just doing this full time is a bad idea and as insensitive as this sounds, quite frankly, a stupid decision. When your stability lies on the whims of a computer algorithm, you're not in a good position at all. Whenever I hear someone say "I'm gonna be a KZbinr or Influencer" I roll my eyes. For every Mr. Beast there are an uncountable number of failed attempts so there is a VERY high probability of failure and even if you do get to a point where it becomes somewhat feasible for it to work, I've seen so many people have to supplement their income with Patreon or a similar service which boils down to begging and to constantly remind people to "like, share and subscribe and don't forget to hit that notification button" just so that they can attempt to stay relevant so the algorithm will continue to serve up their content to the target audience.

[@Minodrec]

By TTRPG industry standards KZbinr is a wildly successfull career.

[@kwith]

@@Minodrec Unfortunately, the metrics that those standards are based on probably don't amount to a great deal in the long-term. This is just another example of the gig-economy that our society has moved to. It just seems like yet another fad much like the attempted return of 3D TV/Movies. Remember that? I truly hope that many of these channels have some sort of a Plan B (in reality, it should be plan A and KZbin being something like Plan J) to fall back on when their content inevitably falls into irrelevance because the algorithm deemed it so which is sad because there actually is a lot of good stuff out there that people have created. I know this is all coming off as pessimistic and negative and some of it is meant to be but its because I'm trying to look at this realistically and pragmatically.

[@evinoshea5215]

It is possible that the algorithm has changed in a way that hurts dnd creators. I think that the algorithm does seem to push more general content rather than my preferred content. Or maybe there really was a dnd bubble thats brust/deflating

[@jameshudson5293]

The algorithm giveth and the algorithm taketh away.

[@4saken404]

This. I can't count how many times I have seen a creator or journalist chugging along like they always do. Only to wake up one morning to find they just lost 80% of their revenue due a change in the algorithm.

[@divinitasfatum]

The algorithm is designed, implemented, altered, and maintained by people. It is not some autonomous entity unto itself. KZbin does change the algorithm to promote and discourage viewing certain content. KZbin has their own motives, and they are not altruistic nor specifically to promote better alignment between content and viewer.

[@RobKinneySouthpaw]

Still going to watch his videos. I review the adventure types video from time to time to help me focus my adventure themes and vary the types through the campaign

[@vampyresmiles713]

Do... people not check their subscriptions tab anymore? Or is mine just weirdly functional? But also KZbin absolutely tries to suggest videos I have no interest in and have never shown an inkling of being interested in.

[@EricBrockway]

Good video. Reminds me of explaining SEO for websites to my clients. Content creation is great, but so many people fail to realize the extent to which marketing the idea affects whether it fails or succeeds. You have to fill many roles to be successful. Congrats to you, Luke, for doing so well in a competitive field.

[@TheMuseForge]

I enjoy your more informative videos and your skits have definitely been getting better.

[@scotmcpherson]

There is a thing you are not considering. KZbin doesn’t care about what a viewer WANTS to watch, and only cares about what you DO watch. I can subscribe and upvote very specifically, but if I watch even 1 video outside of my area of interest, I as a viewer am flooded with similar videos. A user can curate their watching very carefully, and there feed gets blown up because they clicked on something different. KZbin has made it a game of what gets watched vs what a user wants to watch. This is what happens to those people whose viewership declines for seemingly no reason.

[@ArcNeoMasato]

Even as just a random, mostly Transformer based figure reviewer, I've found even in the last few weeks that things do better if I title a video based more on "topic" more than "item". For example, I normally just list out the name of whatever I'm reviewing, to make it easy to find, but it's proving to be better to put that in the tags, then title the video "My least favorite blah" and things like that. I'm glad I don't have to worry about bills to pay with KZbin rev, as I've had 2 rule changes keep me from monotizing just before I hit the requirements TO monotize, but I have zero shade to people making interesting titles and thumbnails. As a side note, seriously, clickbating is LYING about what's in the video, not hyping up what's in the video. I have never seen you or professor DM actually "clickbate", just play up the content a bit.

[@Veggie13]

In Guy's video he seemed to suggest that he spoke to someone at KZbin and it really sounded like some human was actually deciding to remove his channel from the algorithm. I thought it sounded wrong, but i could believe it...

[@theDMLair]

That conversions was almost certainly that the algorithm wouldn't recommend his content, and likely the YT people were looking at thumbnails, titles, engagement, and other metrics. The version we got was flavored by perspective.

[@kokokakanomane]

Good luck with your new viewers.

[@MedanChannel]

Sincere, objective and true. Good video.

[@vortega472]

Yours is one of the few I watch. I went back to running D&D during the pandemic and after things opened up, I stopped because of life and not having any more time - again. I like you and Seth the best for this kind of content, for cringe stories it's Doge, Mr. Ripper, and Crit Crab (hope he sticks around) and lastly - I was into All Things D&D but when they changed narrators I stepped away. I asked what happened to the narrator and was insulted because it was an AI voice I guess. That pissed me off too, I asked a question and got crapped on, so I walked away. And I'll be honest, I'm a flake on what I listen to, most of what I watch/listen too on KZbin is for background noise as I do other things, so I can see why channels come and go, I would see this as a side gig and not a main gig if I jumped in. Luke is right to plan on an out in case things don't work out. Good luck Luke!

[@Noob_DnD_Dad]

THANK YOU. My brand new channel is growing, and I'm grateful for every view and every subscriber! I like what you said: We are not victims!

[@Scott-sk1rb]

Your next evolution should be able to figure out how to transport bacon over the internet!

[@theDMLair]

I'm already fat enough. :D

[@jamesrizza2640]

The problem I have been noticing lately and that I personally don't like is that channels are now promoting their products, incessantly. It's bad enough that KZbin cuts in and promotes ads, and I know that you need to do promotions for your sponsors to make money but then we have to listen to your latest offering so from my perspective I am watching mostly ads and not the content I am trying to get. I just think there is too much advertising, and it gets old really fast. I do like how you offer your stuff below the video, to make us aware of what you have, but I do not like it when you spend time also making comments on it as well when the content of your channel is supposed to be about what you titled it to be. When I say you, I am referring to many other channels as well, not just yours. Your content, when we finally get to it, is great. I wish you and all the other channels I watch much success. For what it's worth maybe this is just me that has a problem with this. I am still subscribed and like your [and other channels], content.

[@bonzwah1]

I dont think it’s as direct cause and effect as you make it out to be. Just searched my watch history. the last time i watched a gm philosopher video was December 2nd, but ive been getting gm philosopher recommendations daily for as long as i can remember. - Today, for the first time in over a month, i finally was interested in one of the thumbnails by gm philosopher and as i clicked i thought “wow, its been a long time since i found any of gm philosopher’s thumbnails interesting” and then i immediately thought of this video and came back to comment. - I checked my watch history and searched gm philosopher and got jan 10th (today) then December 2nd, then November 2nd. - So ive gone a LONG time without clicking any gm philosopher’s thumbnails interesting videos and yet them keep coming up on my homepage. To the point where i was considering telling youtube to stop recommending gm philosopher but i felt bad doing that because ive nothing again him…its just that all of his content is stuff ive already seen because i watched it from youtuve channels like how to be a great gm and have since outgrown that type of content. - Its perfectly reasonable to me that how to be a great gm is no longer in my homepage but why then is gm philosopher in my homepage? I dont click those videos for all the same reasons why i didnt click on how to be a great gm…

[@arkdeniz]

TBH I had forgotten about Web DM and Taking 20, despite the fact that I was a regular watcher of both for quite some time. We just sort of drifted apart.

[@arkdeniz]

Though it must be said that Web DM was not the same after Pruitt left Jim to do it alone.

[@Lcirex]

​@@arkdeniz Pruitt took some time off after weird wastelands do to working on rpg writing burning him out. He's been back on the podcast for about a year and he is energetic and having a blast again.

[@arkdeniz]

@ yes, so I have learned after posting this. Pleased to hear it!

[@scottwalker6947]

Personally, I would prefer if some one at KZbin was flicking a switch. Rather then being regulated out of existence by a series of code.

[@emessar]

I think that most of the advice there is to give about RPG's has been given, and it's definitely been more than most (okay ... I) can really absorb and integrate. At some point you have to stop watching videos and actually prep (or play) a session. So people are either at the point where they have figured it out or given up. As people move on to other projects I wish you all well and success in your new endeavors.

[@TheMightyBattleSquid]

I mentioned this on the dnd youtube dying video but the past few weeks I was legit unable to see lootgoblinmarketplace in my subscribed feed or notifications. The only way I could view them was recommended or going to the channel directly. Their latest video finally showed in notifications but still not subscribed feed. So I wonder if there is a legit error affecting some channels.

[@Knigobi]

@@TheMightyBattleSquid this is definitely something that annoyingly happens in general across different types of channels. I’ve seen it happen to horror channels I watch, gaming channels, aquarium stuff, no consistency. Sometimes the sub page and notifications are just wonky, started like 5-6 years ago even unsubscribing people randomly. It just happens sometimes, definitely not a D&D thing.

[@TheMightyBattleSquid]

@Knigobi huh I've seen and heard of the unsub problem, but not this one. When I mentioned it in the discord and here on youtube, no one else knew about it either.

[@Knigobi]

@ it may be just a lack of seeing it on DnD but it was REALLY bad in the aquarium community for a while and some true crime I watched I genuinely thought some of my favorite creators just quit.