Youtube is Winning the Streamer War?

[@CheesySalsa]

Tldr Atrioc HATES youtube frogs

[@cd-ramos]

Tldr Atrioc wants to KILL youtube frogs

[@Tigeradvenchrer]

👺

[@babyplum2837]

🐸🐸🐸

[@frigid_monarch]

real 😤

[@BallinLikeMike23]

🐸 🐸

[@Sicara9]

The difference for me between what charlie and you are saying is that I am far more likely to watch a vod when it is sectioned off of the main channel (the live tab) than when the content is located in a completely separate channel.

[@jayeshkog]

This is true for most people I know including myself

[@ColdAndBrew]

Yep, and the vods are uploaded days later with 0 views instead of hitting the algorithm. Oh AND if I miss the start of a stream I am more likely to actually watch if I can rewind and catch up on youtube. Plus there are viewers that are only on youtube that will never come over to your twitch that you're missing out on. Edit: oh yeah, AND it turns your “Live” tab on your main KZbin page into your “VOD” channel, so people don’t need to sub to a 2nd channel or go looking for it. I can tell you from experience, multiple creators I would not sub to a 2nd channel for, or even know they have a VODs channel I’ve watched VODs because they’re just sitting there on their channel.

[@ashtoncartner]

I don't like getting it mixed in with my notifs though. It kind of lessens the excitement when a video is published cause it all looks the same in the notifications. I can't help but associate high quantity with low quality.

[@j.r1466]

Sound like a you problem​@@ashtoncartner

[@Dyl6886]

@@j.r1466 nah there’s more of us. For me it’s that I just straight up don’t watch VODs often because of length. I go to Atrjoc or Big A clips when I’m “watching KZbin” and his vods channel if I’m at work or something and want background noise as that’s all I use vods for.

[@TheSoCanadian]

1:30 I disagree with atrioc. youtube frogs like myself just want to watch the stream and NOT engage in Chat. We can pause and rewind much easier with a better player. Id love if atrioc streamed on youtube and did not even have the youtube chat open. (Like most multi streamers) and that way his whole "chat culture" doesn't even change whatsoever. I think he is missing the point on that.

[@hugodecroix294]

Totally agree I feel like his content is better for KZbin

[@umami2871]

Fr idgaf about chat

[@Davineitor005]

@@umami2871 80% of atriocs content is him talking to his chat lol

[@Chaddledee]

@@umami2871 I like that the chat is there but I don't care about taking part at all.

[@SpicyWayne1]

you’re failing to realize how much of the content actually comes from chat interaction and chat-driven bits, activities, and even events in cases like Atrioc and Ludwig.

[@jenjen1217]

KZbin frog ftw

[@pussdesttoyer17]

Me too

[@Roeclean]

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES

[@empeethree]

Yes for real, not everyone got the time to watch streams live... The same reason people prefer YT over cable

[@sombra_rex1212]

I'd rather be a yt frog than a twitch hive mind drone

[@DarianOctavian]

As a Atrioc watcher I do wish he streamed on KZbin because countless times I get a big A video or a vod on a topic like a week after I already watched dozens of people cover

[@MateusChristopher]

I lit don't know where or when he streams

[@Ejsmich]

​@@MateusChristophertwitch?

[@Pyxyty]

​​​@@MateusChristopherdid you even watch the video man. or like check the description of the video. Or check the description of any of his channels. good lord internet illiteracy goes crazy for some people huh

[@nickygian]

Who else are you watching because I don’t know any other channels that cover everything atrioc covers as well as he does

[@irecordwithaphone1856]

​@@PyxytyYou do not have any right to be this condescending over a streamer 💀

[@Elxroid]

7:55 surely the benefit of streaming on both would be the automation of the vod upload on youtube... Don't need to do those extra 10 clicks and however many hours to upload the content

[@sarkaranish]

But it's more work to multistream, and the twitch audience is undefeated, and that's what Atrioc likes. Atrioc is a multimillionaire and he likes paying people to do that work for him.

[@HH-le1vi]

​@@sarkaranishthat doesn't matter. You get way more money from a KZbin vod than a Twitch stream.

[@harpot678]

​@@sarkaranishWhatever, just change your streaming habits slightly by lowering the amount of copyright content, turn off KZbin live chat, then instead pay the VOD guy to create comprehensive topic timestamps for the Atrioc vod. Atrioc just has inertia, and he's not even that wrong to have inertia because the current system is decent. The change from decent system to better system isn't that large compared to other streamers, which would change their system from Dogshit to Decent.

[@outmywritemind1739]

@@sarkaranish What do you mean the Twitch audience is undefeated? They're literally a cesspool of degenenerates, its like 4chan Live

[@pengie_]

I think the issue could be dmca related, though iirc the player has a built in editor to mute section or cut them but im not a youtuber, i do prefer youtube streams/vod

[@Olivia_Knot]

On youtube I can rewind so...

[@Heynmffc]

As someone who is on twitch every fucking day, this is the single most annoying problem with watching a twitch stream live

[@Outerringfuelgod]

Yeah you type like a cringe KZbin viewer. I bet if you typed in twitch chat it would be cringe and everyone would make fun of you

[@Outerringfuelgod]

​@@Heynmffcyou can't even always rewind on KZbin they can turn it off now

[@BreamBrain]

@@Outerringfuelgod there's a world where someone typed this and was serious lmfao

[@sampic_]

I also get less buffering and better quality on KZbin. I haven't opened twitch in like 5 years

[@soylechuga9608]

I think the dougdoug approach is probably best. Stream on both but completely ignore KZbin chat. If they want to interact (which KZbin viewers usually don’t) just go over to twitch.

[@rcoder01]

Definitely the best way. I spend most of my time on KZbin, and if I get recommended a stream on yt then I’ll pop in. Being able to rewind the stream is huge if I want to catch a whole segments I’ll put it on 2x speed until I’m caught up to live. Then once I’m caught up to live, if I want to chat something I’ll move over to twitch, where the chat culture is better.

[@lukakristan7511]

I think what you and other people commenting this are missing is that Doug stopped doing this after a few streams. Like apart from his Rosa stream he hasn't streamed on youtube in months

[@poperman3208]

Exactly we’re not asking for chat we just want to see the live stream on KZbin.

[@mr.fluffypantz4150]

Absolutely this

[@hastyscorpion]

He stopped streaming on KZbin though.

[@NewChiqueChloe]

KZbin as a platform is becoming a past-time hub for a huge audience. I have no goals when I launch youtube besides killing time, but logging onto twitch on the off chance someone I want to watch is streaming is a hassle, and so I don't do it. If you streamed on youtube, I'd absolutely watch you when you pop up on my home screen, but I haven't tuned into your twitch stream in like years.

[@petersansgaming8783]

Same here. I haven't opened the twitch site in years.

[@juliannathefirequeen]

You can multi stream on KZbin, and not even read the chat. You can turn the chat off on KZbin if you really care to can just talk to Twitch chat. Then the KZbin VOD will automatically be there. I don’t see any downside lol.

[@Boxish]

I saw ludwig do this with a get to work vod, but he wants viewers, so he privated the vod until after he went offline, so the vod was instantly up

[@account-yi2cn]

Exactly

[@christianblake2179]

AND WE CAN REWIND ON KZbin

[@T-Popsical]

Having the youtube stream available will leech a percentage of the twitch viewers away, lowering his position in the category and also just introducing less people into the twitch chat culture, streaming is basically an ecosystem, nothing has no downsides.

[@juliannathefirequeen]

@@T-Popsical I disagree. Having the stream in the KZbin algorithm will introduce more potential viewers, and if they want to chat, they can go to Twitch. There would be more viewers total, and I really can’t believe there would be any fewer chatters because those chatters will want to continue on Twitch. It’s not impossible the number of viewers switching from lurking from Twitch to KZbin would drop him in the category a little but I personally dont think that would hurt discoverability more than the discoverability gain of being on KZbin.

[@wendigee]

Twitch is for a younger audience I think. I don't sit in front of a computer anymore and honestly kind of dislike the chat. Vods work for me. Do whatever works for you.

[@DarianOctavian]

This All my friends don’t watch twitch anymore because they hate all the slop talking to chat in between content

[@kabagal]

@@DarianOctavianyou mean every livestream?

[@Jartran72]

The point of twitch is that chat can directly talk to the streamer. That has nothing to do with age, just personal decisions and personality of the viewer. There are 60 and 70 year olds on twitch too. Do whatever you want to do but don't pretend that it is connected to age. You just don't like the twitch chats you have seen because they are mostly filled with immature people spamming stale memes.

[@DarianOctavian]

@ talking to chat is not the same as soley yapping to chat. Chat is supposed to enhance the experience and the content and not just be the content Didn’t even have just chatting back in the day Who wants a podcast with one guy and 10,000 nobodies who have no original thought

[@DarianOctavian]

@ and two 60 years doesn’t mean it isn’t age related 90% of the people pushing streamers to stay on twitch are under 16 and everyone pushing streamers to go on KZbin are over 24 because they’re at a job and aren’t listening to streamers so they can emote Pog 1000X

[@Aritcheyy]

I think ludwigs reasoning for not multistreaming does not apply to Atrioc since he is not big enough to be the top few streamers in a main category. I would be curious to see if streaming on youtube with chat disabled(no one has to baby sit people in youtube chat then) twitch link in description even negatively effects twitch viewership. Would let people on youtube know you are live and they can either stay on youtube if they are just a lurker anyway or go over to twitch for the chat experience. I basically never go on twitch anymore, but I did end up in Ludwigs youtube stream semi frequently since it would pop up top of my sub box.

[@Mogswamp]

Atrioc has such terrible takes on this haha. Twitch's ads are way worse than youtube, not because of something creators choose but because they are always unskippable, and Twitch has no intelligent timer on ads meaning that switching streams or refreshing the page instantly hits you with the same ads you just watched. This is definitely something Twitch as a platform is responsible for, not the streamers.

[@fletch19-fs3ku]

6:49 i feel this with Real Life Lore. I used to like his videos, but i swear now they're just chat gpt written half hour slop videos where he repeats the same points rephrased over and over. It's great when im doing the dishes or whatever but if i ever actually sit and watch it's frustrating af lol

[@tray2204]

I so agree. I’ve clicked a vid or 2 recently cause they looked super interesting, but then I realize I’m 5 minutes into a 40 minute video and I’ve learned basically nothing.

[@LuvU2x]

So real. I use them to fall asleep and keep it at a super low volume. If I ever try and actively watch it I last a solid 2 minutes

[@Cntr-Cmd-Delete]

⁠​⁠@@tray2204KZbin has broken my brain or something because i don’t remember the last couple of videos after a couple of hours on youtube. sometimes we need to do the dishes in silent to think about a topic uninterrupted.

[@ab2aasd]

What irks me the most is the way he says INCREDIBLY and other words like that in almost every sentence. It's so unnatural

[@Boxish]

@@tray2204atrioc reacted to one of them, skipped ahead 20(i made up that number) minutes ahead and he didn’t go to a new point

[@furlz]

Being live on KZbin draws views more than just a VOD. Then those views kickstart the VOD into the algorithm. This is a good boost.

[@Outerringfuelgod]

Yeah but streaming on KZbin is cringe and no amount of views is worth your soul

[@Daniel-om4ce]

@@Outerringfuelgodlmao what

[@ScottJamesIrvine]

KZbin just does vods better, I’m not American so can’t watch American streamers just cause of timing, esp people in LA

[@jayeshkog]

Whenever I'm abroad I feel this too.

[@knkknk-wy8ff]

For sure, I actually want to watch vods from streamers sometimes, but refuse to fuking use twitch for enjoyability reasons.

[@electron6825]

This is your punishment for not being American tbh

[@ferretsmiles]

The glizzler doesn't get that there is a benefit to having it centralized on one channel while not negatively affecting the main channel if the particular vod does not perform well.

[@chanceroberson7517]

As a KZbin frog, it makes sense. An Atrioc video goes live and over a few hours about 100k viewers watch the video. If he’s streaming on KZbin when the video drops, that’s at least 5k viewers who would stop by the livestream. It makes a lot of sense to multi stream. He also has the big a clips channel and the vid channel which get tons of views as well.

[@kenana5941]

i can confirm. i watch youtube on my tv while i fall asleep and when i wake up it is ALWAYS a 5 hour long charlie vod. AND I DONT EVEN PUT ON CHARLIE BEFORE I FALL ASLEEP, IT JUST FINDS ITS WAY THERE

[@loganmuggli1863]

8:30 bro needs his own librarian

[@retzky]

as a youtube frog, its very rare for me to watch a twitch stream (i'll only watch an event, and even then it's rare), i dont chat and i like rewinding and catching up or rewatching a part. the only twitch model means I will probably never watch a live stream. It doesnt matter that much since i'll watch the uploaded part, but it would be nice to see things live or sooner after the live is done

[@gabrielboman1340]

I think the point Ludwig miss is that it feels like KZbin push vods from KZbin livestreams more then if you just upload a twitch vod to a different Chanel

[@ranksour]

Sure he can make 80k in one stream but, if he put that into fartcoin it would double basically overnight.

[@JohnDoe-ev8fk]

Double? You’re thinking too small, triple at least

[@NoxNap]

@@JohnDoe-ev8fk triple? yeah maybe a day ago but now it'd at least quintuple

[@tjoloi]

The "uncut VOD split into sections" is basically what NorthernLion does. He uses markers throughout the stream and my guess is that, with twitch's API, it would be pretty easy to automatically download the vod in chunks and use the marker description as a title for the KZbin video.

[@piknos3381]

Charlies point is that people should multi-stream just because it's the most optimal thing to do. Vods get uploaded automatically and people don't have to wait, the livestream experience is significantly better on youtube if you don't want to chat, it makes more money for the streamer and most of all it's easy to do. Not to mention I didn't even know there was an Atrioc vod channel after watching him for almost a year which speaks to how discoverable vods are. Simply put it's the best thing to do all around, streamers just don't want to do it because they're comfortable where they are and don't want to step outside of that comfort zone.

[@Aidenjc13]

I don’t trust ludwig

[@illliiiiillliii6265]

Excellent decission.

[@mafty_x]

Bro lost 3 million from his own company due to neglect

[@DakotaZ162]

Ludwig will share anything but his personal opinion

[@Roeclean]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[@char1194]

Thank you for your opinion, Aiden

[@technetium9653]

There's nothing worse than the twitch mobile experience, absolutely dogshit product. When you open it you get a random slow loading TikTok snippet of someone's screen in 240p, then when you navigate out, you get a bombardment of ads, which you cant even go back to since there's no playback on twitch, and dont get me started on twitch vods. An absolute joke of a website which to my understanding, only saving grace is the chat feature

[@douxillyfr]

PurpleTV

[@cristianoguimaraes3403]

Hey Atrioc, I totally get the whole “Twitch chat experience” thing and how it’s more about the community than the revenue. But from my perspective, having the option to catch your streams on KZbin feels like a great entry point for people like me who don’t use Twitch much. I have Prime and everything, but I just don’t really want to deal with another platform. If I open KZbin and see you live, I’m way more likely to click it. And from there, once I start enjoying the live experience, I might actually feel motivated to check out Twitch for the full chat experience. It’s not just about giving options to existing viewers-it’s also lowering the barrier for non-Twitch users to ease into live content. Live content feels different from regular KZbin videos because the mindset changes. When it’s live, I’m more willing to just sit back and let the stream happen, even if you’re reading something or chilling. But if it’s a regular video, I’m more likely to skip around. Also, you mentioned in the video how people are watching longer videos while doing other things-and honestly, that’s exactly why Twitch works for a lot of people. There’s literally a market need for that type of content on KZbin too. There’s a niche of people looking for those long, more laid-back streams they can throw on in the background without needing to pay full attention. Giving them the chance to catch you live on KZbin could be huge. I really think you might be missing out on an opportunity here. I’d love to be able to watch you live while I’m already on KZbin, and I think a lot of others feel the same way. It’s like opening the door for a whole new audience who might eventually make their way to Twitch once they’re hooked. Just my two cents-love the content no matter where you stream!

[@OceanBlueLLC]

it is a heavy cop out to say "revenue isint a motivator for me at all" considering he isint talking about you, but streamers in general, and for 99%, it is 100% about the money when deciding your platform. very few streamers/creators are in a point where they can do something different or unique purely because they want to, money is always the biggest factor. No hate to atrioc on it just feels out of touch.

[@Jartran72]

No, not always. For streamers that already have made enough money to comfortably live off like Atrioc, they can choose to do whatever is most fun for them. When you just chase money most people will burn out. It is smart for him to prioritise what feels good. He knows his goals and folliows them and thats cool 90% of streamers on twitch don't get a single viewer but most dream of making it big and their job. Ofcourse they start off chasing money. But if you get to the point where you are financially secure, prioritise whatever is more fun.

[@Boxish]

From the context clue from the video, his chat is the one that brought it up and even told him to watch the video. So charlie isn’t telling him, but his chat, aka the people he is speaking to, are.

[@sauce8767]

it was his response to chat saying that he should multi stream, he’s not talking about others

[@hastyscorpion]

Dude , i feel like you are trying to pick a fight by intentionally misunderstanding. You know that isn’t what he meant. In fact, he explains what he means in the very next sentence. In context, what he is saying is that the purpose of his live stream is to create content for his KZbin channel. Because the KZbin channel makes way more money. So when he chooses a live streaming platform the revenue from the live streams doesn’t matter because that isn’t where he makes his money. What matters is what is going to give him the best video. So if he made 2x more from streaming but it made the videos way worse he wouldn’t do it because he would make less money overall.

[@piknos3381]

@@Jartran72 you just reiterated his point, he already said that

[@char1194]

I just like being to jump back earlier in the stream to catch something I may have missed

[@jellytwins1018]

I think the benefit of streaming on KZbin at the same time is that when the stream ends, it automatically turns into a video and gets more of an algorithmic push cause it already had some viewership to begin with. Also, posting vods on a separate smaller channel is obviously gonna get less traction compared to your main bigger and more active channel.

[@Ainjyle]

Atrioc "For the People" Glizzy Hands, thank you for not running ads.

[@TheBedevilers]

Atrioc, I will never watch a stream of yours on twitch. Never. I simply am completely uninterested in twitch culture, stream format in general and I hate the twitch player and the massive amount of ads. However if I see you are streaming on KZbin then there is a chance I will watch. Not a high chance but it's more than the 0 for twitch. Edit: didn't know about the ad thing. Rest still stands

[@MrHeorhe]

Atrioc I have some clarification on why streamers are running adds every hour: On twitch, when you click onto a stream it plays 3-5 minutes of adds that often repeat. If you play adds enough, roughly one every hour or so, there will be no adds for new joiners and they will join straight into the stream. There are dozens of streams I was interested in, clicked on it, saw that I had to wait 5 minutes watching ads, so I closed it and moved on. Running more ads sucks if you don't plan around it, but if you plan around it and do short fun segments during ad breaks it incentivizes watchers to subscribe.

[@timovandenheuvel9502]

I hope he's just completely misinformed but the fact that he stated 'Streamers don't have to play ads' is insane. I average about 10 viewers and trust me if I could pay the 'ad money' myself for people not to get ads I would. I think for a LIVE STREAM it's INCREDIBLY annoying to have interruptions and they are auto played, even if you put the ads every 2 hours the pre-rolls sometimes get insane like 1 minute long.

[@MrHeorhe]

@timovandenheuvel9502 so like I said, plan around it and instead of having auto ads every 2 hours, set a timer for 55 minutes on your phone. When the timer goes off just mention that you will be playing ads to prevent pre-rolls and you will be doing an AMA, or something during the ads. If you have them autoplay it negatively interrupts, if you have full control you can positively interrupt and use it to create a flavour to your channel. I recommend watching secret sleepover society stream a couple times. They do this method and take short breaks to talk with chat about the game or life events

[@timovandenheuvel9502]

​@@MrHeorhe Yeah I do try to plan around it, that wasn't my point though, It's just him saying streamers ONLY play ads because they want to and not because Twitch forces them on people is a harmful and false rhetoric. To answer you though, pre-rolls will still happen especially if you put them on long durations like 2 hours. I've also had pre-rolls lasting longer because of it. Twitch tells you when pre-rolls are 'on' but it doesn't tell you when it is playing for someone and for how long it is playing, I've visited streams before where there was a minute long pre-roll because they had a longer timer in-between their automated ads. And not to forget, I try to time my ads in-between online multiplayer games but it doesn't always happen like that, sometimes it goes right in the middle/end of the game depending on the duration, you can 'delay' them a couple times but you can only do that 3 times before you run out of those too.

[@professionaldogblogger587]

7:00 I put your videos to sleep, drive, and when I wake up. I am not joking when I say that I have watched all the videos this year on this channel at least twice. Thank you for the content

[@professionaldogblogger587]

If u can somehow get the metrics on this, this account will only be half of it cause I switched youtube accounts to keep getting the student discount cause u can only have it for 4 years which is bs

[@billbeuginton9742]

10:52 Biggest understatement of 2024

[@Hawkshadow125]

7:40 the problem with uploading a vod is that it clogs up your channel, streaming when it finishes puts it in its own tab

[@thederp9309]

VODs are just much better on KZbin… there’s a live tab, it also doesn’t just auto delete VODs like twitch which is super annoying when no one reuploads those VODs which is mainly to KZbin anyways. I also literally don’t care about chat, I think most people found in chats and can stay the duration are more on the dedicated side… or straight up just young and want attention from “their streamer”. I couldn’t care less, most people only care about clips when something interesting happens, which I’m pretty sure a lot of from KZbin because as said, most don’t care for watching whole streams especially if out of time zone, VODs feel worse on Twitch and if you miss something you can’t rewind when someone is live on Twitch which is also just annoying (especially if you miss something due to ads). So most people don’t install twitch to begin with just to get to clips… KZbin just feels more convenient because I couldn’t care less about chatting.

[@Dameworth]

6:50 : Described literally how I even started watching your videos. Your VOD channel was served to me before Big A

[@BibbyAlert]

10:27 Im not super great at telling when things are rhetorical or not, but on the off chance it isn't, i can give my own personal take as a johnny nobody that watches plenty of videos that don't technically apply to me. I watch videos like Charlie's video for the same reason I watch videos on astrophysics or paleontology or niche speedrunning stuff despite not being an astronomer or a physicist or a paleontologist or ever having speedrun in my life. I just like to learn new things. I love to hear people who have genuine insight into a given topic talk about it. I watch videos like Charlie's, for the same reason I enjoy watching your videos focusing on marketing, despite having no direct use for the knowledge it provides. To me, knowing for the sake of knowing is enough. Knowledge doesn't have to be actionable to be valuable to me. There is an unmatched joy in learning new things simply for the sake of learning them.

[@cobra4455]

Ludwig's area of expertise as he lays off all his employees lol

[@aaronnash6689]

Honestly the long video playing while you sleep reminded me of him talking about how companies try to get big enough for the 401k investment money to automatically buy it. Then once they watch few of em youtube will keep recommending them. There are definitely times I've fallen asleep during an Atrioc video and woken up to one of his VODs playing

[@timt9291]

I think people on KZbin don’t care at all about interaction and just want to watch their KZbinr live. It would be nice for me and I’m sure others too if Atrioc streamed here, as I personally don’t even have twitch, but I get in terms of personal incentives for Atrioc there isn’t much besides money.

[@annieone-trick]

Okay that Moistcritical Starfield VOD is ALWAYS on when I wake up after autoplaying as I fall asleep. No wonder it's made $87,000

[@Plu7ology]

9:57 1 million percent I would wake up to Charlie’s stream vod for an entire week my algorithm has moved on to hour long music albums though

[@B3LoW_aVeRaGe]

I get jerma and Charlie vods basically everyday and I don’t even watch Charlie.

[@spiritcheese8771]

Most important for me on TY Live is, i see wich Streamer is Live while i scroll YT. So than i Switch to Twitch to watch the Stream

[@aykutcoskun6092]

Creating multistream setup is probably just half a days work for you if you are gonna ignore KZbin chat (which is understandable). Why do you refusing money and more importantly why are you rejecting people watch live on KZbin instead of Twitch. They are separate market, they won't be twitch subs anyway. Just reduced watchtime and fun for people who like to watch you.

[@Stanmanme]

Bro should do a 2024 marketing Monday recap and it's just every marketing Monday stitched together

[@horrorterrorharvey]

imo the main draw for yt streams is the video player. it vastly depends on who it is, what they're doing and how integral chat interaction is to the content of that particular stream, but occasionally i will pick yt over twitch with watching a multiplatform streamer - especially when i'm on mobile - because the actual interface and tools for watching are better. if i miss something, i can rewind 10 seconds, see it again and then 2x speed to catch up with the live feed again - if i'm late to a stream i was looking forward to, i can go back to the very start and 2x from there as well. at the end of the day i think the main benefit for having both, if you're not concerned w money particularly, is on the side of the viewer, giving more choice to how you get to watch the stream (esp if you're mostly a lurker and don't gaf abt sacrificing being able to be in chat that day for the yt player's benefits)

[@Garaa9900]

the main reason why Ludwig wants to be on twitch is he believes there’s better growth opportunities due to a “snowball” effect on twitch, where bigger streamers get leftovers from other creators ending. And if we also plug in pirate software’s claim of when there’s no prerolls then followers per hour 4~6x. Then you need the invasive constant ads to get the value out of Lud’s plan

[@arakmir1041]

Rather than growing a vod channel and a main channel separately you could utilize the live feature you can leverage your entire yt viewership and algorithmic benefits of having a higher watch time and subscriber amount by multistreaming on your main yt channel as the live vids are automatically uploaded as vods on there as opposed to dividing it up. A vod watcher most likely won't watch the main channel vid as they've already seen the exact content in the vod or vice versa if the main channel vid comes out first if they are only looking for that content in particular dividing the viewership. By buying premium on here I've cut out all ads entirely across the website meaning I've undone the slow boiling effect and get viscerally angry whenever my content is interrupted. Unless twitch offers a similar deal then it's a no go for me and a lot of others. no idea if you bring this up in the video but I've seen this Charlie clip twice already and didn't see it mentioned on Charlies vid and was going to leave the comment on ludwigs vid but figured if he can't take in advice from a pro about league no way he's learning anything from KZbin comments.

[@captainskipper5082]

I think a lot of Ludwig's point is also about the size of the creator and snowballing views the larger you are so it may not apply straight to you but also the chat community part is pretty integral

[@robobo1726]

I don’t understand why Atrioc thinks that just because he likes the chatting experience on Twitch more, that everyone else will too

[@andrewclark9192]

Whenever I wake up after having left KZbin on the algorithm has put Charlie on

[@StarsongKey]

I don't mind watching ads for a Twitch streamer, but when streamers play ads during an important part of the stream to try to get subs so people don't miss out is scummy. I love Hasan's model, we have a time set aside to run the ads, we don't do anything important during that time, then we get back to content. A legit commercial break to get a snack, use the bathroom and come back to stream

[@Jared5616]

Former twitch viewer that has turned KZbin frog here :) Just wanna say it doesnt really add up that you wouldnt multi-stream IF you already plan to upload the VODs. Before, it made sense; contracts are contracts, but now youre genuinely just making the consumer experience worse whilst ALSO making your business functionally worse, for seemingly no good reason. Streaming to youtube allows lurkers the BEST experience possible while streaming to twitch allows chatters the BEST experience possible. Why wouldnt you just seek to provide the best of both worlds when there is no real drawback? Most multi-streams that I care to watch on YT dont give a flying fuck about their YT chat and thats fine by me and from what I've seen most other YT viewers. Set the expectation early that Twitch will have interaction and YT will be PURELY for VOD frogs and then youre fine. Just food for thought.

[@judyfps5059]

Most multistreamers completely ignore KZbin chat. I don’t have twitch prime so I get a better experience with KZbin premium.

[@yustwastaken]

I'm guilty of leaving streams on and then waking up to the WAN show at 3:30am with Linus saying something a little too loud on my speakers

[@AkuFexin]

I noticed that KZbin really likes longer videos especially at night. TheSpiffingBritt once explained how that works. And indeed when I watch yt during the day I get recomended my normal videos and everything between like 1 to 7 am, every other recomendation on auto play is some 4-6h vod

[@ZeezyTop]

I gotta shout out the Twitch chat for being the laugh track for my Atrioc shows

[@boop]

Just want to say relating to him talking about ads, whenever I watch Atrioc vods on twitch, I get ads like every 10 minutes, so twitch definitely puts more ads in than the streamer asks for.

[@JetsFittedUp]

6:45 Stanz dives recently lol

[@jugg8032]

The mouthwashing video is just great. Can't really describe if it is the voices or the slight commentary in between or if it's for any other reason. It just became one of my favorite gaming related content of yours for me. Keep up the great work ❤

[@lazydictionary]

Atrioc is learning that people love "Inside Baseball" talk

[@Dah_jeff]

KZbin streaming pros: You can properly rewind Higher quality player KZbin frogs will actually feel like they’re up to date/in the moment $$$ Bigger numbers Streams are more accessible KZbin streaming cons: Effort Possible impact on chat culture No twitch prime Harder to chat on KZbin

[@Casin.]

I wake up every single morning too a Charlie VOD playing on my TV, last night it played 3 separate Charlie VODs in a row while I was sleeping.

[@Doubledigits_]

I think charlies main point was that when its a livestream that directly turns into a vod through the youtube automation system, then the youtube algorithm also pushes out the automated vod extremely well. So if you operate on the stream on twitch and upload separately on youtube model, especially small channels might have a harder time getting their vods picked up and watched.

[@stevenarvizu3602]

Something interesting.. when KZbinrs stream it shows up at the top of your sub feed. I usually will keep a mental note that they streamed something interesting and go back later to watch the VOD of it, I wonder if for someone with high sub engagement that helps boost their vod numbers by giving them that mental headspace for a couple hours

[@jop9816]

It funny because the selecting a video and a random vod playing is how I’ve watched the whole of Atriocs vod channel. I don’t think I’ve even clicked one of them but I’m up to date

[@cryolumia]

I’m confused why he doesn’t do unlisted multi streams directly onto the Atrioc VODS channel, which then get reviewed and published by the channel managers once they’ve ensured any edits that need to get made are made I suppose the one downside is that these streams go into the live tab as opposed to the video tab, but this also lets atrioc do cuts of the gaming and just chatting portions for the videos

[@cryolumia]

Also everyone is saying they’re more likely to watch a vod when it’s on the main channel and though that is true I hate it because now I have so many sub box videos to sift through that u don’t want to watch with Connor and Charlie’s multi streams

[@mpc1226]

I think you can do the immediate youtube vod uploads by multistreaming and having your KZbin stream be unlisted. Once you end stream it would post on the channel as a video and you just re list it.

[@92who]

I’m a long-time KZbin only viewer and have only tuned into stream 4-5 times total (and to sub). That said, I can confidently say that if you started multi-streaming on TikTok Live, my algorithm would push it to me, and I’d be way more likely to tune in, chat, and watch-probably 100x more than I do now

[@92who]

Also feels like there’s little to no downside, with some positives like much more freedom and flexibility for the viewer and community as a whole. Don’t really see many reasons not to but I’m not an expert

[@TimatoSaus]

KZbin returning to long form gaming videos is the most excited I've been for KZbin in a long time. The Mouthwashing video is exactly what I missed from the early 2010s KZbin.

[@carsonj4031]

There still isn't truly a noticeable downside to multi-streaming though. Like Charlie said it's a win-win for everyone. You say that you wouldn't want people going to KZbin because it would decrease the quality of your twitch chat which is the core of your content. However, I feel like people who prefer KZbin aren't chatting anyways. And on top of that, you're directly growing your KZbin audience by streaming on KZbin. And on top of that you're also making more money. Exposing your live streaming content to as many eyes as possible is always going to be a net win in every way.

[@sasx1487]

The most surprising thing for me here is how much people like to watch Charlie's VODs. I thought his thing was the streams for the real time feeling n shit.

[@Disisdabeast]

I feel what Big A is saying about people just leaving videos on and not paying attention. I find it hard to sleep without background noise so 9 out of 10 nights I put a playlist on shuffle of all of Coney's vids and just leave it on. Ofc I love his content but at this point 70 percent of my watch time on his channel is probably from me sleeping.

[@DarianOctavian]

God I hate twitch so much the app sucks for my phone sucks for my tv every streamer is yapping to chat instead of making content the drama constantly Why can’t we ban twitch instead of TikTok

[@vladimirperalta667]

Im always working and can never catch the streams so the vods on here are a blessings always had problems on twitch

[@AutarchKade]

More money, more convenience, wider audience appeal, no downside.... Atrioc: "nah"

[@RandomBruh]

My biggest issue with youtube lives is notifications. I have notifs turned on on basically all channels I really watch, and when they started youtube streaming I've been getting spammed over and over, and either unsubbed or or turned off notifications, and haven't really watched most of them ever since. (Especially since as PirateSoftware Thor said, subscribers don't actually get recommended videos for some reason)

[@jop9816]

I swear once a week I wake up to that moist critical starfield vod even though I watched it fully when it first released. I’ve woken up to it easily 10+ times and it always restarts

[@Millnash]

So this is interesting to me because although I am a Charlie fan and watch his videos, I have other KZbinrs I watch and are a fan of that I have way more watch time on. I noticed for a large time on KZbin that no matter what video I would play, my autoplay feature would direct me to the same 3 Charlie VODS. The main one being the starfield stream. It could literally be a completely unrelated video but it would ALWAYS go to one of those 3 VODS. It actually started to get annoying to me so I ended up turning off autoplay for a while. This doesn't happen to me as much now but my autoplay still tends to lean towards his VODS (never his normal videos) for whatever reason

[@drago_excalibur]

Trusting Ludwig hasnt gone well for him or others recently

[@alexx12545]

Can u explain?

[@drago_excalibur]

@alexx12545 scammed multiple times, spent 5 days playing League and not advancing a single rank, dissolved his company cause someone fucked up the accounting books

[@dratderpy8312]

@@alexx12545 i assume they are referring to off brand going out of business recently?

[@aiwash2766]

Ok that’s a low blow

[@drago_excalibur]

@@dratderpy8312 not specifically that but also funny stuff like him playing League for 5 days and achieving nothing

[@Haprenti]

The one thing twitch vods have better than youtube is the ability to watch part of a stream live, and then come back and watch the rest starting the vod from where you left off. On youtube it'll just restart the vod from the start even if you viewed the first 2 hours live, which is very annoying and it makes no sense that it still works like that

[@marshamatic5762]

I think when Charlie has as many subs as he does on a channel for just talking to his viewers, it doesn't matter the topic and they will still tune in just because they watch everything he puts out anyways.

[@joekat6451]

Me: Let's watch the video Also me: wait no

[@kv4648]

7:55 there's still the chat. I think it's a bit too small to read on yt

[@Inst9727]

Brother I'm lazy, and don't use twitch, just double stream please

[@dusk2308]

i mean as a youtube frog i always love watching your MM vods i don't really watch it i just skip to the MM chapter and dip

[@jokerrhys4957]

the amount of times ive woken up and had to turn off the Charlie Starfield VOD is actually staggering Also, multi stream on the Big A channel, dont even have to have chat turned on, so its a win-win; you get the VOD out asap, we dont suffer through twitches media player, both the live and vod players are terrible.

[@papasalvo]

I personally have no intrest in watching a stream. I wish that I could turn off stream notifications in KZbin and turn off that 30 minute notice to a video going live/a stream happening. If I watch an atrioc stream I'm specifically looking for the marketing Monday section then playing the video at 1.5x speed to shorten the little pauses uhs and ahs he does. Id argue that atrioc isn't exactly wrong this is just a nuanced take. Id argue if you are not currently a large established streamer with a growing/reliable audience and a solid audience on other platforms OR you do not have a PC and the wifi speed necessary to dual stream then it's not necessary However if u aren't in either of those categories and your goal is to grow then you should be dual streaming. There is quite literally no actual downside. Anyone watching ur stream on KZbin was unlikely to do so on twitch because they either don't have an accont or it's just not a website they frequent. The less barriers u have between your content and your potential audience the better. Hell even if u do meet the criteria of the first option is there really a downside to streaming on other platforms? If u got the hardware for it and had someone make u a standard thumbnail what's going to be the downside? If u worry about the vods affecting your watch time set them to members only or unlist them. I struggle to see why u wouldn't multi stream

[@Gaswafers]

For more and more streamers, Twitch is making the decision for them.

[@Dah_jeff]

KZbin streaming makes the LIVE part of livestreaming more accessible, allows for stream watchers to rewind, and automates the uploading of VODs.

[@TheOnlyTaps]

Dope watch as always 👊🏿

[@AFancyDress]

I just want a literal restream of the twitch stream mirrored on youtube

[@crescentmoon169]

My uncle died suddenly today Big A, thanks for being here right now.

[@kzco-iq5cw]

its somewhat sad that the lowest effort stuff gets rewarded the most

[@BenibomBugs]

Say less gimme 48 hours

[@YourBlackLocal]

because nobody cares how much effort you put in, if it's not what they're interested in. Effort is irrelevant when the market wants something else.

[@WanderTheNomad]

People just don't have enough time in the day. Even if it's just 10 minutes of the highest quality content available, that's like 1/6th of an hour. So in 1 hour you can only watch 6 high quality videos, assuming you don't rewind or read the comments. And that 10 min number is big underestimation. How many hours in a day do you have to spend your full undivided attention to videos? Naturally, videos where you can split your attention and do other things in the mean time do a lot better, because they aren't competing on time with other things with more production value that also demands your undivided attention like movies, tv shows, games, and irl stuff too.

[@oatsaredelicious2521]

Pirate Software put it best when when he said that he multistreams because some poeple just like watching on YT more. I dont really care if he still only reads twitch chat, I just like the youtube app and player more. Also, I already have premium. If Atrioc says making the stream available on other platforms doesn't do anything for anybody, I would therefore disagree. I also don't see how having the option to choose where I watch would harm the Stream.

[@Jus4ya]

Members only stream on KZbin make vod available after stream done

[@YdenMk-II]

For me, I just couldn't get into watching livestreams on twitch. Every time I tried watching something, I get hit by multiple ads before the livestream and it just sours my experience and I click off the site completely.