Yu-Gi-Oh Fun Decks Need a Place to Play

NOTE: I said "Rivalry of the Warlords" format, but what I meant there was the "Heart of the Underdog" format. Would you consider opening more sealed Yu-Gi-Oh product if more of the cards in it were actually playable in some official format? What would that format need to look like?
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[@MrHolyfuckingshit]

I don't know what Paul is going on about. I've seen tournament ready decks for all these archetypes on ebay.

[@tokful]

Lmao😂

[@apsamplifier]

DAMMIT YOU WIN LMAOOOOOO 💀💀

[@hoppybonz5978]

"tournament ready" as in ending on the same boring end board of the current boss monsters? Or tournament ready where you keep the same Identity (playstyle) of the archetype and end on their boss monsters?

[@Gebirges]

name checks out lol

[@ac1dfoxdie716]

@@tokful hahahahahaha

[@23jewfan]

The problem is that Konami designs cards on purpose to be bad. Make some cards search on summon but put one back, (Dream Mirror) but then you have Fenrir which adds one INCLUDING itself. They dont print all archtypes with the same level of power.

[@luchotenks2310]

Searching 1 and then putting 1 back on resolution is not what I would consider bad card design but balanced. Any card that searches without a proper cost (i.e. making you go -1 before resolving) boosts consistency without risks which is the most important thing for any deck. It's cards like Fenrir that have skewed our perception of what is acceptable card design. Fenrir is basically a generic Extra Deck boss monster that snuck itself into the main deck as a starter, displacing many archetype starters in the process. To think Konami would be shameless enough to print 2 more of these (Unicorn and Ogre) while Terrortop is still limited, is nothing short of an insult. It shows they are willing to make the same mistakes over and over again because they know players will spend money regardless. Until they don't that is. Now they are panicking when players refuse to buy their scam booster sets because everything that is not a chase card is basically a waste of money. Serves them right.

[@Lunacorva]

I agree with both you and @luchotenks2310 I think Konami HAS been purposefully making bad cards to increase the rarity and value of their chase cards. But said chase cards have gotten so powercreeped that the definition of "bad pack filler" is now: "A well balanced and playable card."

[@Lizardgreininja47449]

No they don’t your wrong just stop

[@JacobKendrick]

​@@Lizardgreininja47449do you think Konami thinks all cards are equally good? You can't possibly believe that Konami doesnt print bad cards on purpose to sell high rarity good cards and pad a set

[@SDREHXC]

@@Lizardgreininja47449have you ever opened a booster box in your life? Even some of the best sets ever have cards that are very obviously just fodder that is sometimes unplayable, not even just not good.

[@KINGAARON201]

I would honestly love just having different formats. It's a shame and makes me sad that there's all the crazy archetypes that almost nobody play because they just can't compete. I would love a "Tier List" format. Where you can only play decks and cards from that tier. I really appreciate them making new cards for old decks, but it's just a shame that they get outshined by better or META decks.

[@tomforge614]

Yeah. I mean, I prefer archetypes like Abyss Actor, Aquaactress. Maldoche, Ghostrick, Superheavy Samurai, Karakurui, Gimmick Puppet, Naturia, and even the mentioned Battlin' Boxer due to their aesthetics only to recognize that they'd never be playable outside of a video games like "Legacy of the Duelist".

[@residentgrey]

How do you tier them?

[@residentgrey]

TeamSamuraiX1 has been doing their tiered series so the same list may end up being used.

[@tomforge614]

@@residentgrey To be fair, I mostly play on "Legacy of the Duelist", so I don't have a strong sense of 'tiering'. My best guess is that most of them are too playful and gimmicky to hold up against basic hand traps let alone anything powerful like Tearlaments or Labrynth that special summon more than twice per turn or have omni-negatea of any form.

[@KINGAARON201]

Hey I'm a MD player and super casual. While I do enjoy Despia, I also enjoy Fur Hires, Photon/Galaxy. And yeah, if Konami took the tier lists of decks and put them against each other I think it would be fun as hell

[@Banunkie]

Konami has what I like to call "Favourite Child" sydrome and I've been saying this since Sky Striker first became meta. Basically a handful of archetypes get some crazy strong support cards that they straight up do not need, Konami doesnt touch them with a banned list for way too long or if they do it doesnt matter and while they're in the meta, nothing Konami makes will counter it until its time for a new meta.

[@obskewerd3992]

Branded is this ^ lol. When people post branded matches or brag i just roll my eyes, like you have to have about 5iq to run these decks, AND they are more powerful. I blame the community, The bad players beg for decks like these because “deck building hard”

[@jvsonic2468]

@@obskewerd3992 both the community & Konami are to be blamed and needs recalibration and realignment to bring back the ideals of the franchise

[@Striderblack01]

I love this entire rant. YGO needs a low power casual format very badly. Yugiboomers (like me) want it, and new/returning players might need it to learn the game.

[@TheSliferSlacker199]

Facts bro!

[@franciscoriveros8586]

There is, just there are no players nor they know that these formats exists

[@kevinodinson]

Actually I think a structure deck format would be really fun

[@LordSteeleCastleClashPsteele68]

Yes I'll bring my x3 freezing chains

[@santiagocarretero2825]

Something like pauper format un MTG?

[@Lizardgreininja47449]

There isn’t any useless Yugioh cards your wronv

[@Lizardgreininja47449]

@@LordSteeleCastleClashPsteele68what’s wrong with that

[@Lizardgreininja47449]

And it’s not konamis fault

[@3v068]

With all due respect man, this should have been screamed at them YEARS ago. I only came to the new mechanics recently, but even I see that its been something that they have always done because the consumers keep buying regardless of how good or bad the sets are.

[@enigmaoftheechidna6279]

If you play goat format lmk I love old school play so much more than meta duels

[@CronoEpsilon]

I personally don't need the power level of new cards to exceed what Kashtira is doing to consider them good. I'd rather the banlist just bring the power level of the game down considerably if they aren't going to support multiple formats.

[@apsamplifier]

*Thanks for watching today, guys! Be sure to Like and Sub, of course! Also, I said "Rivalry of the Warlords" format, but what I meant there was the "Heart of the Underdog" format. Would you consider opening more sealed Yu-Gi-Oh product if more of the cards in it were actually playable in some official format? What would that format need to look like?*

[@aizenvermillion434]

Yes I would buy sets rather than individual cards if more staple reprints are printed in mass common rarity while also reprinting some of those same cards in higher rarity. An example could be is that they'd reprint a lot of Ash Blossoms in common rarity but also print some Ash Blossoms in higher rarity in the same sets. I could sell keep 3 copies of the commons and sell the common rarity for cheap for other players especially new players and the higher rarity for those that could afford it.

[@aizenvermillion434]

I'd like to have a slow and/or mid speed format that allows us to use not only old cards but also the new ones whose power level or effects are on par with older cards like Tiger King Monghu, Greed Jar, and non-engine/gimmicky cards even as 1 or 2 offs. Goat and Edison are great but sometimes I want to use newer cards for these formats especially the fodders that were just printed to fill up pack space.

[@SuperflyDungeonGuy]

Casual player here so you can take my opinion with a healthy spoonful of salt, but I think the power creep has gotten so out of hand that you would need to change the game on a fundamental level to make a lot of cards/archetypes viable. Maybe create a format that puts a hard limit on the amount of searchers and/or Special Summons you can use in one turn. I know how that sounds, but hey, it might work.

[@aizenvermillion434]

​@@SuperflyDungeonGuy Them making the locals make the ban list themselves for local events makes me think that they either don't want to, too lazy to do so or has no clue how to do it because they are too far deep to look back and reorganize everything from the ground up.

[@PharaohofAtlantis]

A limited format like draft would sell boxes.

[@bellystraw]

Gotta admit that I'm not a huge modern yugioh guy but I definitely agree that Konami needs to create formats that allow lower tier strats to play...or at the very least don't make players who play lower tier strats feel like they're willingly throwing themselves into a wood chipper when they walk into locals

[@MontyJojo]

That's yugioh in a nutshell tbh. The casual fun side is honestly amazing, but because the competitive side is so good, those decks will never shine. Decks like Galaxy Eyes, Cyber Dragon, Volcanics, Crystal Beasts, Lunalights, and even Amazoness are actually pretty fun to play with their modern support. But everyone is putting in a bystial or branded package with them, not to help the deck but to have a competitive engine carry the deck against the meta.

[@Artorigold]

This is how I feel about Purple rn in One Piece TCG, they can't get a break

[@gerharddamm5933]

There’s gotta be some “bad cards” because they open the field for future use and creativity. Now, making purposefully weak archetypes or giving weak support to old archetypes is something else. That, like you said, is truly useless.

[@Saixjacket]

Literally yajiro invader

[@Zetact_]

A full support for a lower power level format not only directly addresses the product sales issue by making "pack filler" cards into something that sells for people who prefer that format but ALSO the retention issue that was brought up in the shareholder meeting. I don't think it could work as a "Rivalry of Warlords" (although structure deck format would be one thing) or "Heart of the Underdog" formats because them being designed and marketed as "side games" for local game stores to do as they see fit as well as not having an "official" sounding name make those formats have a marketing issue. If you were to ask me, having a tweaked set of banlist rules that take into account the decades of game design knowledge with an explicit aim of more digestible back and forth games would be enough if it were given a high amount of support. Call it "Standard" format or something and market it as the introductory format for the game. The implication of the main format being "Advanced" as a name is already baked-in with the implication that it would be where you go for highly competitive and powerful games. Even if you wanted to run tournaments almost entirely with Advanced Format rules you could do things like the feature matches in Standard rules.

[@jvsonic2468]

Now that's something that you would need to spread to sub-communities of YuGiOh to get on board with with maybe signed petitions as evidence of its support to email Konami Headquarters on

[@oscaroblest]

Even though I build meta decks (or I try to) I would like a "Standard" format as you say, it would make the 80% non-meta cards I have less like trash

[@Gerthulhu]

I feel the game is just too broken to really have older decks become viable without adding 1 card engines to summon the usual cards like Barrone and such, powering down the game or creating a new format seems the best way from here as powering up everything would turn the game even more into competitive solitaire.

[@TheStreetScientist]

They have decks from the past that could compete from the past but won’t allow it to. Infernity has 2 cards on the F&L list and we have Zoo still on the list. It’s about money. They want to sell what they want. With no possible threat.

[@residentgrey]

When they ban Barrone, it will be a different era.

[@JuwanBuchanan]

@@TheStreetScientistIf Infenity, Spyal, or Zoo were to get their stuff back, they would become top tier again because their most broken stuff that are banned or limited is THAT good. Even Card of Safe Return can never come back because it would again make Zombies a top tier 1 deck again and that’s not something Komoney wants.

[@boredfangerrude]

@@JuwanBuchanan What Konami wants is clearly not what is best for the game.

[@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz]

tf is that banlist for then?

[@night_xylo]

I completely agree with you. This may be 90% of the reason I tend to go for the little guys and try and do what I can to keep their identities but try and keep up with the meta stuff (i know, impossible) but things like Gustos, Ritual Beasts, Tenyi, Elementsabers (i need to pick that back up), super quants, Magikeu, etc. (All 90-100% pure btw) are more interesting to me than the next meta deck that everyone plays. I want to use cards that I genuinely find interesting and want to use but then you see Kash and Tear among other things and the disrespect you feel when fighting them makes me genuinely hate those decks (Kash is literally the bane of my existance and I just want the whole deck banned)

[@night_xylo]

I wrote more than I thought xd

[@sneakysceptile747]

The biggest issue is not having alternative formats besides the main meta. I think a neat idea would be have formats centered around their products. So they can have a whole "battles of legend" format where you can only use the archetypes from those sets. They could do this with structure decks as well, that way everything can at least be played in one way or another and it gives you a reason to buy new product even if it doesn't hold up to current meta decks. Its not perfect and would need some tweaks but i feel this would really help

[@dappercrow8138]

Yep. This would also make it so cards on the banlist aren't just sitting there collecting dust and would have value outside of collecting

[@derrosenkavalier8890]

Yu-Gi-Oh! just needs more formats. Goat and Edison aren't enough - there should be stuff like the N/R festival in Master Duel IRL, comparable formats to MTG's Pauper and Commander, etc. There simply isn't enough room for fun decks to breathe.

[@residentgrey]

This rarity bit could be a curious spin. You still get access to plenty of disruption and other tech so it can work out.

[@jvsonic2468]

The rarity in paper YGO is vastly obscured because many certain powerful cards are reprinted in different rarities, so that idea wouldn't hold up the best.

[@franciscoriveros8586]

Common charity format is exactly what you described, no one plays it

[@emissaryofcharybdis105]

There definitely is an issue with a couple of archetypes just annihilating everything that comes out before, during, and after it. Icejade is one of my favorite archetypes, and it just got new VERY good support in the form of Ran Aegirine, but overall, I find it still struggles to keep up with Kash, Dragon Link, and the same usual suspects of overpowered archetypes. I think what really needs to happen is that whoever thinks up these archetypes really needs to have them tested out more extensively. They need to think harder before releasing something that locks out the enemy's zones near immediately, or sends a third to one half of the deck to the graveyard/banishment zone, or sets up ten separate negates in one turn of excessive summoning. The only reason why most cards are useless is because a handful of poorly planned out archetypes are poisoning the well.

[@PKSparkxxDH]

If Yugioh had a Smogon-like meta system for what cards are taking up the top spots, that would make it easy to figure out what cards/archetypes can't be played in certain formats. And as you said, since that would require Konami to acknowledge that cards/decks are simply better than most others in an overall sense, it would need to be a community-driven project. But if it was done, and caught on, it could become a format that Konami eventually adopts themselves, like Edison format.

[@GG_Nowa]

But the thing is ppl would then hate that like alot of people hate smogon because metas develop everywhere

[@user-zz3ft7he4h]

funny that you talk about this. me and my friend actually created a format exactly like that IRL. we take modern non-meta strategies (like Evol, Battlin Boxers, Gishki etc.) and play/balance them around a power-level that is around lateXYZ/earlyPendulum-era. essentially "what if the powerlevel stayed like pre-nekroz, but archetypes got more support". our main idea was born from the old problem "man, if deck X got those support-card multiple years earlier, then it would be an actually playable deck" its tons of fun and i can really recommend you to create something similar

[@jrpgintrovert752]

Konami will never do this, but my solution would be an online simulator where alongside the normal formats theres a "custom mode" where every player can individually create a banlist and the matchmaking system will only pair them against people not running the cards you banned (and obviously you arent running ones *they* banned). If they did it long enough theyd actually have data of which cards players ban the most and which cards see signifigant use in the format without others feeling the need to ban it and could possibly use that info to structure the main banlist

[@chaserseven2886]

Replace them with cards that are created with sealed play in mind

[@cruzdoesstuff]

Not necessarily a huge idea, but you know those pie charts for percentages used in YCS? A Rogue style tournament where if the archetype shows up on that chart it is off limits would be a neat idea. Not perfect but neat. Like a secondary tournament

[@itzzcp4969]

My locals actually runs something like this. Any deck that’s meta relevant isn’t allowed, and it’s a blast. It’s held directly after the “meta” tournament, and has the same prize support, so there’s no incentive to play one over another, besides personal preference

[@cruzdoesstuff]

@@itzzcp4969 That sounds like my kind of tournament.

[@KasaiYuppa]

the smogun thing with pokemon should be for yugioh. each tier could be determined by whatever archetype is primary to tourney decks in said tier. so ishizu tearelements at s tier, ishizu being legal at a tier, and this goes down until we hit a pile deck dominated format.

[@7Kingsmen]

This! Yes!

[@lxbronx6]

Now a ROGUE tournament sounds like a great idea. And for giggles the winner of the META tournament faces the winner of the ROGUE tournament.

[@pandoranbias1622]

Konami makes three good decks, one OP deck, and then filler for everything else. This is the only way they can sell new product because of how the game's mechanics works and because they refuse to use a set rotation system.

[@gutsbadguy50]

No set rotation, no draft format, no alternate constructed formats. How has the game even survived this long?

[@pandoranbias1622]

Momentum@@gutsbadguy50

[@JocoseJikininki]

100% agree Paul, I’ve played in my fair share of tournaments (regionals and locals) over the years. Won and topped as well. However, over time for me I’ve lost interest in how the game has transformed (Pote onwards) so I really do wish cool niche decks had some place where they belonged ❤

[@King_of_Blue-Eyes]

It fun that some card was considered useless until a combo makes them very valuable.

[@Carlos.Rivera]

Oh belive me, I was so moron before how broken Reverse trap it is using Gaia mythical

[@x7themm]

Nah bro some of these cards wont/cant ever be saved 😂

[@jaernihiltheus7817]

​@@x7themm people said that about mushroom man, until it became a tech pick that shuts down what was the tier 1 strat (kashtira)

[@DarkSymphony777]

@@jaernihiltheus7817 or aqua dolphin that was useless until isolde came out to snipe handtraps

[@KevinTangYT]

Thanks for preaching what I was saying in the question about what to expect on from future sealed product. It really is that the higher ups at Konami Digital Entertainment are just doing the bare minimum and just letting the OCG product team come up with designing cards without any additional input. It's almost like react content without providing commentary. Just leeching off someone's work. Seriously archetype just needs to be a keyword so they can either make it a deck building requirement for format, or it can be marked as theme (Jack's cards aren't all resonators but they are Jack themed). They probably need OCG to sign off on it though and making changes in Japanese companies is so burdened by bureaucracy.

[@darkwolf9637]

A neat solution could be a modified version of what the pokemon video games have for competitive being the different teir of play based on usage. For example a super strong pokemon would be in the ubers teir where it will only ever be used against other uber teir pokemon and a bad pokemon will be in PU where it will only face other PU teir pokemon. Something like this could work in yugioh think of it like a teir 1 deck will only ever be played against other teir 1 decks while all the "fun decks" that aren't even in a teir will only face other "fun decks".

[@farfetchdideas695]

I think this is the best solution. There's such a large number of decks that can't compete with the top decks, but are strong among their respective power levels. Recognizing that there are varying power levels and creating lower powered formats not only gives those decks a place to shine, but also helps motivate investment in "weaker" sets.

[@FakeHeroFang]

There are too many moving pieces in a card game, whereas every pokemon has its movelist and base stat spread set in stone from day 1. I feel like the generic power cards would make properly balancing something like this a nightmare.

[@darkwolf9637]

@FakeHeroFang pokemon has a lot of opportunities to be more complicated. If you see an ash blossom in yugioh, its effect and stats are always the same. In pokemon, when you see a pokemon, you have to worry about What moves does it have What are its ev's What are its iv's What's its nature Whats it's ability. In yugioh, a card will always work exactly the same. In pokemon, you can fight the same pokemon twice and have it feel completely different due to the above factors being different.

[@random135246]

I think you're 100% correct. The cards have been so powercrept overtime that so many new cards just cant be used anywhere. THe only way to make them playable without making new formats, heavy bannings, or some other kind of huge shake up is to make the cards better than the current meta.

[@Throrma]

Really good content Thank you, it was quite informative and I'm glad to see more people try to reach the community with these ideas. Let's hope Konami takes notes and do something about it..

[@animegx45]

I don't want to blame Komami exclusively. They are a business and business sell what people ask for. I find the YGO community itself to be so fixated on the competitive game that they kind of mock people for wanting a casual game. I'm under the impression that the existing community WANTS the game to be what it is right now. What the game is vs what some people might want (me included) is very different. I haven't felt compelled to buy any cards because...well, cause the decks I want to play will have all 10 zones locked down. As a business, it would make more sense to cater to the people that's spending hundreds, if not thousands on the game breaking cards over scrubs like me, whose barely an existing buyer at all anymore. There just doesn't seem to be a loud enough voice for toning down the meta and helping the rogues. I know Pokemon (the video game) has an neat tier system ranging from uber (basically tier 0) to NU (literally never used), but that's easy to do with individual pokemon when compared to individual cards. Admittingly, with so many legal cards in the game, this would probably be a bad approach.

[@Trigger99X]

Honestly some of my friends have tried “Flesh and Blood” and it really opened my eyes how beneficial different and creative formats are to a card game

[@Voltic_Charge]

we have a bi weekly casual format at my locals with the current banlist/ rules: The casual event will have its own banlist, consisting out the following decks/cards: Super Heavy Samuarai Branded Swordsoul Floowandereeze Brave/Adventure Eldlich Tri-Brigade Rokket Sky Striker Madolche Dogmatika Numeron Spright Tearlaments P.U.N.K Runic Ishizu Bystial Kashtira Dark World Labrynth Decks meant to emulate recently topping decks (regional of higher) and decks that have won more than 2 of these casual events (for the player that played it). Max. 6 Floodgate/Handtrap/Board-affecting Cards total (all categories combined). Stats change(atk/def/atr/type) effects not included Foodgate: Cards that continuously stop a mechanic of the game (summon, spells/traps, effects, destruction destination change, etc) Handtrap: Cards the activate from the hand and actively interrupt/stop the current play (negate activation or effect, alters how a card can be used, moves card to a different location, etc) Board-affecting: Cards that can remove/negate/interrupt more then 1 opponents card on the field in single turn with a single action/activation or more activations of the same card/effect in the same place.

[@MiyaoMeow588]

It's funny you say that about Unchained because it's the one deck you mentioned that *is* actually doing fairly well at the regional level Mikanko as well, to a lesser extent

[@whenwhere6173]

This is why I like the yugioh video games, where they have campaigns and solo mode, so I can make lots of decks and not worry about meta games.

[@lionablaze8747]

same. unfortunately, with master duel being a free to play moneymaker, we are not going to see another game like legacy of the duelist.

[@Lizardgreininja47449]

@@lionablaze8747your wrong

[@mattyorshin]

Need an anime deck format. I shouldn't hav to run three dark ruler no more, three evenly match in every deck.

[@Lizardgreininja47449]

Not every deck runs those six cards

[@phantomfang1927]

Ive recently started to get into Magic, and I prefer Standard over Commander so far. However one of the rules that i did like from commander was that you can only have a single copy of a card in your deck. I think that would make archetypes more viable.

[@TheBlob.]

i think the best way to release support would be by making structure decks (not too many like they already do), just releasing the first wave of support in one set and then the next in another set just makes the decks feel incomplete =-=

[@teamkaboozles4910]

1) I do believe Konami releases too much product and too many cards in those products. I am a believer of Quality over Quantity. 2) I think individual cards that try to do what something already does better are useless. The power creep of staples is are absolutely wild. I think power staples should be addressed on the F/L list 3) Archetypes are not created equally and never will but I do like the fact I can go to YCS and play Kash but chilling with my friends I can play Madolche or whatever pet deck that isn’t tier 1. It’s nice to have different decks for different levels of play 4) Ultimately I think yugioh is so cool for having such a vast cardpool that you can mix cards 20,10,5 etc years ago with current strategies. Remember when Mushroom Man #2 was hyped as an out to Kash. While some cards may seem useless now they may very well have a place in the future which from a collection stand point is cool. Anyone ever think their LCGX Yubels would be worth 40 bucks one day?

[@f687sNFM]

i think the issue is that konami forcing metas is biting them in the butt long term. yeah making tear and kashtira broken made them alot of money but having them be so dominant for so long makes people not want to invest into new metas, either by not wanting their investment to be hit massively again or just not having any interest to. why buy soul burning volcano when only 1 card is actually very sought after and tcg player can get u 3 copies easily. i bought CYAC for example for road roller, and monsterous revenge for duality shadows light. support for decks that people actually have an interest in will help boost sales, for example more earth machines will definitely sell. look at plants when maze came out Edit: he kinda said the same thing lol

[@Dannygxc]

A sanctioned Structure Deck format would be cool. Or perhaps a format with only low powered (jank) archetypes/decks that are practically bulk in our closets at this point. Banlist could limit on meta staples and generic boss monsters

[@franciscoriveros8586]

There is, just no one will play it like they have this mentality," I spend a huge amount of cash in my deck and I can't even play with it because some broke duds want to play with just one structure? Unfair!"

[@CPTic19]

Every time I talk to someone I preach a rotating format. Which will give birth to more formats

[@thomasjennings3477]

I think the only thing I would say is that if a card store took one look at the set list and still paid for soul burning volcano. They need to hold that L

[@duyknguyen]

"Anime Format" for anime lovers like Phantom Knights, Predaplant, Fluffal, HERO, Dark Magician, Blue-eyes... AND Battlin' Boxer would be The Bomb for Konami Selling Point as well!! 🎉 Another "Legacy Format" with decks that must have old cards for >2-3years with new supports would be nice like Stellarknight, Superheavy Samurai (Pure), Ninja or even stronger tier decks like Salamangreat.

[@TheSliferSlacker199]

This^ this would be amazingly fun.

[@franciscoriveros8586]

Look at generation duel format, it's an official format with no playerbase at all, like every other alternative format

[@duyknguyen]

@@franciscoriveros8586 I think if they want to support a format, Konami should just release banlist for that format and it's all good, Speed duel for instant still has playerbase because.. guess it, banlist

[@franciscoriveros8586]

@@duyknguyenactually there is a banlist for generation duel format

[@DanBro0o]

Playing duel links I always liked the skill 'balance' where you had to use 6 of each card type (monster, spells and traps) to proke the skill and it got me thinking what if Konami implemented a format where you had to use at least 12 of each card type in your deck? It will slow the game down cause you be forced to play trap cards in your deck making control decks possible be the best kind of decks to play therefore these new products may thrive in this kind of format. It would call it balanced format but i dunno lol someone tell me I'm not mad for thinking this

[@jhoneism]

This is actually a really interesting idea

[@tomforge614]

Aw, but what about us Superheavy Samurai players?

[@jaernihiltheus7817]

I doubt they'd sanction an official format of it, but they could easily make a "balance style" archetype

[@jhoneism]

@@tomforge614 pend gets to hang with the modern format, since that kind of gameplay is what’s being avoided when you’re making people run 12 traps.

[@tomforge614]

@@jhoneism I mean, I know it's technically a Pendulum archetype, but I can't say I've really run it as one outside of Coral's pendulum effect allowingbone monster to make two attacks.

[@mulldrifterz6469]

The easiest solution for literally all parties involved? Between Konami/Stores/Players? MAKE A FORMAT LIKE MTG'S LIMITED. Replace bs filler with cards that would be decent in a Limited environment, embrace the format, and stop short printing bs.

[@aurabeast2468]

We have to keep in mind that konami makes these ideas a year prior to see how product goes and hopefully (on konami’s part that they need to do) is to make more support to legacy support that they printed prior they didn’t do well to actually to make them competitive to encourage more diversity, reward players who kept the older support and makes new players more interested. Evols are life and they are just missing a few more cards to actually do something

[@GhostlyGhost333]

Perhaps an archetypal showdown format? No generic cards like Lightning Storm, Evenly Matched, or Called by the Grave. For example. If you want to play Kashtira, then you can only play Kashtira cards in your deck. Or if you want to play Labrynth, you can only play Labrynth. No eradicator or dimensional barrier. I’m sure something like this will need to be ironed out, but that’s my two cents on that.

[@ralphremo1862]

I've been an on and off player ever since pendulum was released mainly because most of my friends who made up the bulk of my play group either stopped playing Yu-Gi-Oh because of pendulum or just didn't want to keep going to tournaments and losing. As far as I'm concerned Yugioh is still a good game but the power creep and learning curve for beginners is pretty daunting. Keep up the amazing work Paul and everyone else at team APS and keep believing in the heart of the cards.

[@AkioKota]

I made an alternate format a while back that some friends and I really enjoyed playing for a bit. I called it Heat Wave Format. But, essentially you just can’t have effect monsters in the monster zones, but you can have them anywhere else. So hand traps, pendulums, fusion and ritual materials, unions, grave effects, etc. we’re still viable. We had a wide variety of decks seeing success too. Blue-Eyes, Dark Magician, Paleozoic, Runick, Black Luster Soldier ritual, Adventure, Igknight, etc. I think we also made geminis legal for the format with the condition that they can’t gain their effects. You should try it, it was a lot of fun!

[@wolfzonegaming303]

yeah Paul i agree with your statement. there are certain types of cards i've never played before and would love the chance to try them out. Also if they would make a format for these cards, new players or player's who haven't gotten into the game could wind up liking these cards and could end up making them get into yugioh a lot more or better. I've been using a armed dragon deck on master duel and my main to go monster is armed piled dragon. It's been a lot fun playing it.

[@tomentor2854]

Had this conversation with some friends, it's why we see the in demand cards are always high rarity so that there's an actual incentive to atleast open the set for competitive uses plus other things like rarity ratio distributions making things more difficult to get those cards of value and having those big lotto pulls like Starlights/Quarter Century rares to help increase the incentive of making something back. The issue is what you mentioned in that there's like 4-5 cards of actual value and everything else is pennies. Now this can be a good thing for casual play with low end stuff being cheap and accessable, but also bad for shops trying to sell booster boxes where 90% of the cards in it are like you said "useless" cards of zero value unless you pull the ones with actual value, this also then drives people even more so to just buying the singles they need online where boxes are at a cheaper rate compared to recommend retail prices thus making things more difficult for the shops. Cause and effect.

[@davidsandoval340]

Dark world does win if piloted correctly. I take the the deck to my locals all the time, and sometimes win the tourney, even getting drolled and shifter, I still win my matches. Kash, VS, PURRLEY, and other meta decks all over. Not a problem.

[@buddyzilla4557]

They used to have outlets like pegasus league and local tournements as the main way for people to use this but the problem is the split between "casual" and "serious" players making a single medium hard to accomodate. You can only print so many cards and sets per year. Plenty of players who dont want to just focus on winning turnements with meta decks get angry with such high prices and focus in those cards. In the past, konami had a bunch of cheaper, gimik sets like Hidden arsenal but then the competative players conplain that it is a waste of a set release. They are still trying to encourage homeplay with the kind of special edition open and play deck sets you guys had but they have learned to back away a bit on that over the years. A lot of their solution is to turn toward online play where they dont need to accomodate printing costs but can still charge for people, make money from advertisong and much more easily provide for diverse player tastes. The physical cards are quickly becoming a medium that is very costyl and hard to facikitate for a fanbase that has become very scattered. At its core, this is marketed as a childrens card game but also has its nost vocal/influencial playerbase in serious adult players. This is a series that now bridges a few generations of players and has outlasted itself several times. Yugioh IS all about the cards. Pokemon has been going on for this long but it seperates the card game from the video games and other aspects that keep it a varied corperate giant. Magic has always been about the card game but for an older audience who doesn't really want much more than what it always has been. Yugioh always tries to go back to the cards. You have fans of the anime who want new cards that tefrence the old stuff. You have collectors who want the art or rarity aspects. You have competitors that want something competative. You have casual players who want to experience something new or creative. .and all throughout these fa tions have been at war. Every product they have come out with or outlet theyve created for the phyical cards in the last few tears has left someone out and had their critisms as a reult. At the end of the day, this makes judgeing on how to best go about something like this in one of the least viable manners for a buisness to do so, difficult. I think konami is honestly getting ready to move away from the physical card game and let it naturally fizzle. They may never let it die entirely but at this point they clearly have focus on video games and digital formats over the cardboard. They've introduced the virtual into the main world tournements, ocme out with ongoing events and new virtual mediums for different players. The fickle fanbase and natural progression if the business costs away from tangeble products is leaving the real cards a less and less fruitless endeavor. Its always complained about what konami does wrong and i agree thwyve made some STUPID decisions..but when you complain about things like "where are we going to play these cards and have fun?" Well..who is resoonsible for that?! Who made the local scene as competative as regional and larger scale tournements..it wasnt always rhat way. You could go to locals for more relaxed play. Who snubbed options like pegasus league? Who refused to by the Hidden Arsenal stuff? Its fine if thats how the Yugioh Culture just has to be but recognize that the natrual consequnece is that the game wont be viable to continue forvever like this then. Either the community needs to put more effort into synergizng and working for Konami or accept that the company can't please everyone enough to make things work profitably for them. They will always do what they feel is best for them as a company at this point and if its leading down a bad road for the players, they can only change themsleves or accept that.

[@phantomdragon420]

Maybe a irl Attribute 4 format like in Master Duel would help stuff like this.

[@somepl3b]

You know Magic has a limited format that lets us get some use out of "useless" cards, yugioh desperately needs new formats.

[@kyuubimakai009]

Paul: "You're not going to play a Dark World deck at your local card shop." Me, who faced actually good Dark World builds three matches in a row at locals: "Are you sure about that?"

[@Takunsenpai]

When you said theres only like 3 cards in DUNE that people want i went and looked at the card list and saw they printed flip cards in that set, when was the last time a decent deck used flip cards. Kinda seems like they are just printing cards because they can.

[@yoboymoi]

Exactly we need a social/casual format just like commander in MTG, I love the idea of structure deck format, maybe have the legal list be cards that have only released in structure/starter decks and go crazy with it play it out of the box or just build something with only structure deck cards

[@gutsbadguy50]

The thing with commander is it was invented by players. This video puts the onus on konami, which is fair, but theres no reason the community cant make its own casual format.

[@andrewmcreynolds4341]

I TOTALLY agree with this. And it's super easy to see in something like Master Duel. Like in the lower ranks you can see a ton of neat decks getting played. Then you get to like gold and above and face the same like 5 decks over and over when there are literally THOUSANDS of cards just sitting on master duel having never been played. And even when they do like specific formats they still let you use most of the strong cards just within a theme so it ends up being that somebody finds a broken combo in the new format and that's all you see. Like I wanna build my dumb ABC Ojama deck to meme around with. I wanna build Salamangrets even though I know they haven't been meta since like 2020 if that. I wanna build Darkworlds and Zombies and Blackwings and have a decent place to play them in real life and be able to stand a chance. Even just introducing like a "casual" format where you can just basically ban the top lets say 5 decks from the format would be way more diverse than whatever format is currently going around. Now don't get me wrong, I am not being a yugi boomer and saying "back in my day our formats were diverse and you could play ANYTHING and still maybe win!" but like the past few years I keep trying to get into the meta of yugioh and it seems like everytime I do we are in some tier zero format. And to me, they have the perfect test cases for these things in the form of master duel. They just use it to give us gimiky formats instead of actually figuring out something interesting.

[@apsamplifier]

Master Duel is really wasting its potential. They could be doing so much more with it

[@alexstreet9470]

Locals can’t host these many formats tho . . They don’t have the room for the specific nights dedicated to that game to have multiple formats play out . . Nor will they stay open past closing time . . It’s just not going to work . I’m also seeing card shops drop yugioh entirely . Yugioh is facing a hugeeee problem right now . Want to ply fun decks ? Buy virtual cards on master duel to play your fun deck but also don’t interact with humans . Masterdueling is not interacting with actual humans even if there “is” a human behind the other side . It’s not social , it’s not building the community . It’s you buying cards that have zero VALUE irl and it’s the only place you can play . It’s as if Konami thinks you have 18 different real life friends who all buy their product and you meet up at your house to play yugioh the nights that locals aren’t hosted . I think the game is going to need a HUGE reset .

[@Lizardgreininja47449]

The game doesn’t need a reset your wrong I’m tired of the game needs a reset it’s so annnoying

[@franciscoriveros8586]

Everyone in the comments arguing about the absence of alternative formats, when there are plenty of them but no playerbase at all. The last time went to a locals there was only 3 people to play time wizard, no speed duel players, no common charity, no draft, even if we wanted to play a tournament, there are no enough players to do so. We tried to make a group so we can host a tournament but nobody showed up

[@GrizzyyG]

My locals hosts heart of the underdog tournaments sat afternoons. With their own ban list. Pretty much all the meta archetypes and generic OP cards are banned like accesscode, talents, barrone, etc

[@LocalChamp]

Magic still has this problem somewhat but it has a lot more cards that aren't useless because they support and actually have players for like a dozen formats at this point. Draft, Standard, Pioneer, Modern, Legacy, Vintage, Commander, Pauper. ETC.

[@itachi65ful]

So what they can do is make 2 booster boxes a booster box with meta cards and a separate one with casual cards.

[@thaddeusrussell8919]

Master Duel has GREAT alternative formats/events with forbidden limited lists N/R rarity comes to mind So like, it is possible

[@MMTrapsYT]

The problem is that Konami flooded the game with so many cards. Now every time they release a new card they have to run it by all the old cards so the new cards do not create game breaking plays. So now they create cards that work towards a certain archetypes and those become the meta. Magic has done a much better job at controlling this by making the official format seasonal.

[@michaelclark8831]

What it boils down to is faith in your favorite deck despite the meta. What I enjoy most about Dkayed weekly tournaments is when a rogue deck tops or win it all. I respect players that aren't tier 304s. With proper usage of hand traps and disruptive spells, any consistent deck can become viable.

[@Mighty-Eight]

Cards/Support for Older Archetypes still need to be made regardless as they're always an audience for those decks (Biggest example is Volcanics). I have always advocated for Crucifixion Banlists (100% no matter what) every time a new Main Core Set comes out so that when Older Archetypes get new support they can have a chance to shine and see some play. But Since TCG is too lazy and non lenient on balancing any part of the game ( Not giving an exact date on banlist, flooding products like an assembly line of every 2 weeks) and lets Decks be too powerful at near 100% full power for far too long, it makes all these new supports for older decks never stand a chance in the first place. What Sadly hurts the game the most is that the game is so 1st turn 15-20 1 card Combo, 7-8 negate, 9 disruption effect and where any new card MUST be an engine only or its a trash card mentality just sadly makes me turn off competative yugioh. It is a 2 player game, not Solitare. As long as the cycle of the Extremely Heavy Combo Mentality exists and continuously hampers this game, we'll not see Yugioh as it once was, a fun 2 player game where we can have fun with our favorite decks and doing our best to improve on that deck specifically and taking it to a Championship (YCS).

[@kingkhi20]

Can’t make money without powercreep, but can’t grow the players without slowing the game down. They really need to evaluate all the archetypes they have and make a power set to bring some back to life

[@magicalscientist192]

My locals bans the top 4 most represented decks (based on data from regionals and YCS). For example, last week the forbidden decks were Kashtira, Spright, Labrynth, and I think Branded. Not sure about #4 but the first 3 are correct. I only play casual decks so it works out perfectly for me lol. I heard the store owner say one time (paraphrasing) “this is a place for people to come have fun, so if the goal of the meta is for your opponent to not have fun, I don’t want it here.” And we have an absolute blast every week. We get to see crazy and whacky stuff and still play good games of Yugioh

[@vasvsilva]

Seriously, this beautiful man needs to be hired by Konami

[@shippoblast]

Paul highkey built like a Githyanki

[@apsamplifier]

Yoooo

[@ib5131]

I miss when they made 'useless' normal monsters

[@abyssal113]

What I would suggest is making a brand new format that attempts to be around 2015-2016 YGO power levels (basically post Shaddoll and pre-Zoo). Lets call it "Restrained Format". I think this should work the best because it'd allow for a drastic power level reduction that lets old players play at a power level they feel more familiar with, but probably won't require that many bans. I estimate maybe up to 500 cards will have to be banned for such a format. Stuff like Kashtira, Tearlament and Spright will probably have to lose over half their archetype, and stuff like Swordsoul and Branded might lose about 30%, but things like Orcust and Salads might make it with only 3 or 4 cards banned. As to how the format would be updated, I think MOST sets would be automatically legal in the format, except some cards will be released Limited to 1 (while all cards are released unlimited in Advanced Format). AND ALSO the ban list would just hit things in a much harsher way than Advanced Format. Advanced Format usually bans only 1-4 cards, but Restrained Format would usually ban around 4-8 (and mainly cards that were already Limited). The ban list of Restrained will also try to leave less things Limited and Semi Limited. After a while, Limited cards will be either banned or released. This should help memorize the list a little better, I would hope. Which would be necessary since the format's ban list would be huge already. Restrained Format would be encouraged for Locals, although Regionals, Nationals and Worlds could maintain a focus on Advanced until/if Restrained proves popular. However, since this focus on Restrained format could lead to an Advanced Format that eventually feels a bit stagnant, occassionally there could be product released specifically for Advanced Format, where all the non-reprints, and many of the reprints, are banned in Restrained. Kinda like the Modern focused sets of MtG.

[@jvsonic2468]

IMO there should be a paper format with a banlist where it follows the mechanic of the Duel Links banlist (ex. You can only choose 1 card exactly from the Limit 1 pool to your Deck. Limit 2 & Limit 3 same way except you get to choose cards within a Limit pool up to the Limit number.) or Duel Links has a way to restrict decks if you want to play a skill that does something crazy or fixes issues so the deck wouldn't be wasted on what it has a lot going for by requiring you to play certain types and/or amounts of cards in a deck to activate that skill. On that note, it can be used in a banlist through applying a status(es) (Limited, Banned, Semi-Limited, Unlimited) to that requirement. That would not only balance the power level of decks but also support decks being played more purely if splashing or involving generic powerful cards becomes a problem. Those are my ideas. One of them I'm in the works of doing for my Yu-Gi-Oh! Discord server. If anybody is interested and/or would want to support it, my Discord username is jlkun0090

[@abyssal113]

@@jvsonic2468 That is actually how Paper Speed Duels plays too. Although Speed Duels is stil around GX Power Levels.

[@jvsonic2468]

@@abyssal113 Yeah. It'll be a while before we even get to the pool & power level ZEXAL era or mid ARC V era. Otherwise, I would get myself in that format. I started getting into the game in early ARC V so

[@kainhighwind2]

Alternative formats can do SO MUCH for a game. There's so many people that'll go to a big Magic event to compete. "It's fine, if I wash out I'll just go play in the commander or legacy side event for a smaller prize". There's people that'll go and just flat out ignore the main event and go play in the side event because that's the format they like

[@yamiangelous]

I'd say the bigger problem comes from certain archtypes only having problems are *they die to insert handtrap or other blowout card* which just kills anything that can't go +2 from -0 in 'advantage'. Even a 'heart of the underdog' tourney would still have issues with powerful decks that only get stopped from the same card that only kinda trip up the tier 1 decks.

[@jvsonic2468]

Exactly. A format with a banlist that checks theses annoying to problematic cards that aren't so problematic or annoying in the Advanced Format where decks are overpowered asf or easily able to play through disruptions but in lower tiered decks are an issue would be greatly needed.

[@synthetichydra]

Yugioh standard format: 25th collection in November and the sets that come out in that year! The collection gives you your core set with accessible prints at super and then the new year of cards, yearly release of the core set can swap out cards too. Idk I just hate how hard it is to get people into the game

[@dennisgothier7562]

He’s so close… you can almost hear him say “roation/limited”

[@Lizardgreininja47449]

No what do you mean

[@monkfishy6348]

I think they should just stop doing core sets. The reason so many useless cards get printed is because of set sizes. If they only release Legendary Duelist sets to support older archetypes, Deck Build packs to create new archetypes and then small side sets to release random generic cards and staples and support for the new archetypes (TCG exclusive archetypes go here too), I think the game would be healthier and card design would improve. They of course need to fix the rarity issues, especially in Deck Build packs too. Make them like the OCG, or just stop being greedy and put way more Ultra Rares in every box and reduces the price of a box. The OCG prices of a Deck Build box is 1/3 what it is in the TCG, and they are guaranteed 1 of the 3 Ultra Rares in the set. So let's say you get a little lucky and get a different UR each box. That means it costs the price of 1 TCG box ($60), to get every card in the set in the OCG. Meanwhile, the TCG has 10 URs and you get 3 per box. You need to open 4 boxes to get 12 URs (let's assume you get insanely lucky and only get 2 duplicates - realistically you'll need to open 5 or 6). So you had to spend a minimum of $240, instead of the $60 the OCG does to complete the set. But the fuckery doesn't end there. As the boxes are so expensive in the TCG, the individual URs are also more expensive, so to complete a playset you still need to buy 18 UR singles. Whereas in the OCG you only need to buy 6, which might cost you another $80. ~$140 for 3 new archetype decks isn't terrible. ~$480 (more realistically $540+) for 3 new archetype decks however, is AWFUL and is what the TCG suffers with when it comes to Deck Build packs.

[@esekay3648]

The solution is create a format without monster negates and hand traps. Make everything hard opt, then all of these decks can play, no-one gets locked out and mst and twin twister become relevant in the game

[@friendmaker9210]

What about a format where every archetype that has topped at least twice within a year is banned? Or something to that effect

[@TheLastSane1]

Honestly one of the biggest barriers to entry for a new player who doesn't follow a lot of Yugioh content online is that structure decks are useless, 90% of the cards in any pack are useless vs. a meta deck. To make a Competitive Deck you need a lot of money to buy meta staples and those aren't exactly cheap if you're building a deck from the ground up and have nothing to start with. You also would not know the best cards to get, what archetype to play, and what might in a very short order get ban hammered. Its just kind of imposing to start out in paper play because there is a REAL cost of entry that you will likely never see back. You are also likely to lose a hell of a lot trying to learn the system and the meta and how to play even if you invested several hundred dollars to build a meta compliant deck

[@Yugidud-vf4wy]

One petite issue with designating unique divisions for card leagues, for example say a structure deck format, is that even back then archetypes were distinctly divided from one another by utility and sheer power, a more antiquated variant of power creep, and unfair card design of days gone by; while the idea is solid and indeed should be backed by Konami, I couldn't imagine it solely fixing that particular issue prevalent in all card games, unless paired with other prinicples such as equivalent card construction and harsher limits installed on rarity and power distribution in sets, because even with structure decks, some of them in their respective time periods are definitively, objectively superior compared to others.

[@samuelcohen2362]

My solution is that official tournaments have divisions based on deck's rankings. With every ban list, a rank list is also released: S, A, B, etc. Then different brackets at tournaments are ONLY for decks in a certain rank. The S tier tournament bracket, A Tier, B Tier, and so on. Almost like weight classes for combat sports. That way, other archetypes have a purpose. And much like the ban list, the debate would then be which archetypes need which ranking 😅

[@jhonniekravchenko643]

the whole yugioh in general is a useless card game, more than 10k cards but only a few dozens gets any playing time

[@jhall2264]

I REALLY like the idea of power levels. Say, you can use any tier deck, or any deck with a max rating of tier 2, or just tier 4 (rogue decks), or tier 5 (fun decks). That would really help the game while largely solving the issue of power creep.

[@TheSliferSlacker199]

So Smogon for YuGiOh. Yes this is amazing idea. That way you can play the deck you want and not get absolutely stomped.

[@Elfking94]

So true man, I returned and thought the new Ojama armed dragon support was amazing, only to get bent over by flowandareeze. The power level is just not comparable

[@jaernihiltheus7817]

Ojamas kind of aren't allowed to be competitive, as the second they are they'd become an oppressive zone lock deck like kashtira was.

[@GG_Nowa]

Ojama can't ever be competitive because well it's whole big pay off gimmicky things would result in yet another kash moment format of oppression. It's the jank builders toolbox deck

[@Elfking94]

@@GG_Nowa listen, Ojamas never asked for their mechanic to be given away on crack, they just wanted it to be competitive 😅

[@stevendefeo8424]

If the formats are the problem then create your own format. That’s how commander came about. Some judges got together and created a format. Years later Magic saw that is was the most played format and now they make products for commander.

[@androiduser3895]

I agree I think a store for casual play would be great, but idk really any like that. Also I know it's been 3 months since this but the fact that infernoble topped and Nemleria has a really busted continuous trap that it can search made it way more viable with the right cards.

[@darnbbb3851]

I do somewhat agree with why your saying this. Most people who play the game for fun don't have the money to spend on meta decks (that would be me included). I actually play off meta decks (some aren't even IN a good tier), stuff like Suship, Unchained (before the new cards), Machina, and a few more. When I was building Machina and getting my shit rocked, it felt...bad. I didn't have all the good expensive cards, while I didn't really get an opportunity to play my deck (since you know, the current meta is "don't let your opponent play". That is it for my Ted Talk, have a nice day.

[@tagteamduelist1686]

I have said this before and I will say it again; we need a ban list like the one in duel links. We need a ban list that puts cards on a "limited" list so that you can NOT use more than one copy of ANY card in that pool in the same deck. If you limit the best Kashtira card and limit dimension shifter, you wouldn't be able to use them at the same time, but you can use them seperately. They are LITERALLY already using this in one of their games, and I feel like this would do an AMAZING job of nerfing decks without totally making them bad. I just never saw why Konami didn't explore more with the ban list.

[@zurajanaisephirothda3886]

I think Side-sets need a revamp into more "guaranteed value" products. As an example, Legendary Duelist Sets could easily be turned into Legendary Hero Deck style products, giving you 3 premade decks with the new cards for 30-40ish bucks. Maze of Memories could instead become a Duel Devestator type of product, you get all the reprints guaranteed per box and then every box contains a couple of booster with the new cards, so even if you dont pull the new card you wanted, you still get your baronne reprint guaranteed

[@henrycavillsrealmustache3553]

Yea unless you are in yugioh for the money of flipping desired cards there is no reason to buy any packs outside of the rush of basically gambling. Every card in the sets are on TCGplayer, and playsets of most of the cards outside those 3-7 that are actually useful are cheaper than buying even a single freaking pack.

[@joshuadansby2874]

Thank you, finally someone that doesn't work for Konami. I learned this a long time ago never buy blind packs, only buy what you can see. Money doesn't come easy usually & shouldn't be spent on the unknown especially unknown cardboard.

[@TheDucky101]

Aggreeeeddd, I'd rather support cards for older archetypes than wasting design space on cards that are literally gonna go into bulk and disappear forever, would make people buy more sets too

[@SageTigerStar]

i agree with this. we have so many under supported archetypes, it would be cool to see some of them get some love, rather than Konami releasing a thousand more new unfinished archetypes

[@TheDucky101]

@@SageTigerStar or weird cards that will legit never see play

[@joshuadansby2874]

This guy preaching!

[@mulldrifterz6469]

I wouldn't crap on Dark World lol. If you don't have droll, a lot of times you're losing your hand and will face down 5 negates and other pin point interaction.

[@Squidxx-fg7ih]

Domain format is the solution, its focused around casual play and the singelton nature encourages you to really dig into all the support. So much can be viable if you aren't always trying to win but maybe just explore synergies and combos. It gives these cards more meaning long after the archetype has ceased being competitive.

[@Renigade68]

I think the best way for Konami to handle this would just be to go by usage rate, like any card that's used X amount can't be used in Y format, that way they can rid themselves of any obligation of stating certain cards/decks to be "good" or "bad" and just say that "this is what people normally use, we don't why they like to use these cards instead of others but they do, so you can't use them in this format, as it's only for lesser used cards", that way it's reflecting the obligation onto the playerbase, but Konami themselves should obviously still clarify what is and isn't "normally used", if they did that they could effectively create an "under used" format, to borrow a phrase from Pokemon, I'm no good at naming things so I dunno what they'd call it for Yugioh, but conceptually I think the idea is sound.