Yu-Gi-Oh is an Unfair Game.

[@apsamplifier]

What's your deck's "unfair" thing? Be honest! We all have one.

[@dragonjames4500]

Not sure what is unfair with archfiends.

[@vileluca]

Nothing really. I actually have to attack to win with my janky ritual deck.

[@sallas09]

Pretty sure my deck's Sillva handloop counts!

[@Okarin_Time_Wizard]

Your opponent cannot activate monster effect with magician of black chaos max. You can summon it in the opponents turn with dyna mondo

[@yorukazato8074]

Is anything madolche does unfair anymore? Tiaramisu is still decent but...eh.

[@Deniz_50]

I think at this point, balancing this game out is pretty much impossible. The best they can do is giving us different formats to play with, and acknowledging them.

[@invertbrid]

They know that and u can see sometimes GOAT or edison side events nowdays even in YCS. Tho mostly side events, so wont get much coverage compared to main event, which is standard format.

[@Deniz_50]

@@invertbrid yeah, they should put more effort into making sure all formats get equal coverage.

[@Mark-bc1ej]

100%

[@Saltymoles]

@@invertbridnext month theyre having a legit edison “ycs”

[@dutch661]

Different formats seem ideal. I'd like to see a summon limit format say 6 zones 6 summons.

[@Mochi_Madness87]

I just hate how the game feels like you don't even get to play most the time. This game is a 2 player game..but sometimes it REALLY doesn't feel like it.

[@isidoreaerys8745]

“I hate how it feels” I hear this so much. It’s almost like Konami’s brand retention strategy is using Trauma bonding to emotionally attach us to their brand through repeated abuse.

[@HimanshuSingh5818]

yet people hated on tearlament format so much

[@umbreknight7]

A good amount of the problem I think is the 1player feel in a 2 player card game for sure.

[@ich3730]

And? Surprise, thats the case in every card game with 20+ years of cards in a format xD Same for HS wild, MTG vintage, shadowverse unlimited, pokemon expanded. All of these are broken and busted, thats the point and expected if you throw 20 years of card design into a pot.

[@osvaldomuniz-gomez6702]

​@HimanshuSingh5818 Rightfully so. Granted, this format isn't the goat, but at the very least, you don't have to be afraid of entering standby and milling your deck, watching your opponent establishing an even more insane board, and then if you did get key cards in grave for your combo to see it get shuffled away, and not a damn thing could be done because the Izishu are banished as cost.

[@akichan4168]

As a relatively new player to yu-gi-oh (I started around september last year), this game is super unfair. And I don't think this game was designed to be fair. I feel like it's all about stopping your opponent from doing anything. I mean I found out really quick when I played some archetypes that look cool to me and always get annihilated by the negates, handtraps, board breakers, etc.

[@ZarkionUltimate]

The problem is there are so many unfair cards at this point that all they do is make more unfair cards to power creep the old ones.

[@chaosbug7]

The biggest issue with today’s game comes from the design philosophy & mentality that every deck that does well has to do 1 of the following to succeed •Floodgate the opponent out of the game •Make a board of half a dozen disruptions or negates your opponent can’t overcome •Break their board & OTK them •Break their board & make an oppressive board yourself •Play multiple handtraps to disrupt your opponent enough so that you can play through a suboptimal field. Also your deck needs to be able to be able to either 1-1.5 card combo or be able to reliably set up your floodgates. The game this day and age is so fast & cards do so much that it’s mind boggling if a game goes past turn 2. I feel the only way to slow this down is to either •Nuke the entire format & start over with set rotation •Gradually bring down this power spike by banning the oppressive cards & moving in a new direction with card design philosophy that encourages more 1 for 1’s and cards that are more interactive & encourage more back & forth gameplay. A pipe dream for sure, but it is what it is.

[@isidoreaerys8745]

We need set rotation. Period.

[@tripple-a6031]

Power is rarely the problem, the lack of restrictions and how generic most boss monsters or "unfair" cards in general are is.

[@axelnova123]

Baronne, Zeus, Apollousa, Accesscode... Yeah all those cards are massive problems for the game, you're right. I really hope Konami stops printing generic shit like this.

[@triple_gem_shining]

You can always plays Pokemon

[@Lucarivyle]

Exactly, if interruptions were just locked to their Archetype, it would be fair. Overall, decks can be mixed far too much, which is why you can end up on like 8 negates or such. If effects locked your turn into an Archetype, you would just have to hit decks that are too strong and boost those, that are currently too weak. That way you'd have so many decks that are equally strong. I mean, one negate is fine, but at 3 it starts become just annoying, especially if they are able to negate whatever you might do. Omni-negates and floodgates like TCBOO, Gozen-Match, Rivalry of the Warlords and other similar stuff shouldn't exist, no card should turn off a whole mechanic of the game.

[@falscher2]

Agreed. with 6 elements and 15 (?) races of monsters and 7 types there should be no need for genericness. That is not even starting on archetypes as well.

[@MadRabbit116]

I think it's also a matter of power, traps and handtraps should never have been more than a 1 for 1 exchange, mostly because they are too free, combo decks being what they are today is just a side-effect of blowout cards being too good and generic traps and spells just being leagues better than monsters from the beginning of the game I say this after watching the eev video as well, traps and spells will always be better than monsters when having the same effect mostly because you don't have to telegraph your way into them and by extension you don't have as many points of interaction where you can stopped by handtraps As for ed cards being to generic that's probably by design so you don't have to spend too much money into the game, and just have to prepare for say 50 cards instead of a thousand I personally think when it comes to fairness it comes down to having your actions matter, if someone has more negates on their board that you have cards in your hand or it literally doesn't matter if they misplay or you bluff them you still lose simple because they have more cards, that's bad for the game, evenly, nibiru, droll, maxx c and dimension shifter create these situations and generic ed monsters are a way for every deck to respond to them the way i see it, though i don't think all blowout cards are bad, drnm, droplet and even super poly all have very real costs and limitations tied to them, super poly requires you to give up extra deck space making people cut out recoverability to run it, resolving drnm means you still have to find a way to get through a full board of 3k attack monsters and the cost of forbidden droplet it's not something all decks can afford, evenly matched on the other hand it's not even once per turn, same as raigeki, and it's absolutely free to play so long as you got the space and know you are going second, giving up your battle phase is a barely a cost at all when you can just otk next turn, that's where i draw the line tbh

[@renanorozco5911]

The problems come down to 2 things if we strip away everything: - The fact that certain cards and boards allow you to effectively lock the opponent out of gaming, or shut down a mechanic of the game entirely - And the lack of resource to Yugioh, which means there is nothing stopping you from playing a thousand cards per turn, allowing the boards mentioned before. Cards that lock mechanics should not exist because they allow you to stop a person from playing completely. Card games should be about who plays better, and that cannot happen if the other player isn't ALLOWED to play. It is okay to have a card or a board that is too strong to go through, but it feels awful to not be able to even try. On that sense Tower monsters that are high atk and unnafected feel fairer at least, because despite you not being able to out them, they're not stopping you from trying. They are unfair in a sense, but you end up with at least a feeling of "Well, at least I tried to work around it".

[@kendellburton2202]

I think beginners stand no chance in this game. Even winning has to be annoying playing against the same strategies regardless of archetypes

[@vileluca]

Yep

[@raijuko]

That's a great point. Every extra deck is the same. Your archetype isn't what ends up on board, they just give different means to play the same 15 cards from extra deck that the guy across from you is using. It's ruining the game

[@vileluca]

@@raijuko lol what you don't like seeing Abyss, Zeus, Baronne, etc?

[@RAMPettersen]

@@raijuko you couln't be more wrong... Try to compare Branded's extra deck to Kashtira's or Swordsouls'. Lame argument

[@Alex-Omega]

Thats so true. Im no beginner but yes, Yugioh is a game where even winning isnt fun anymore

[@King_Of_Games]

I had a conversation with somebody that believes all floodgates should be banned and the irony is they didn’t even realize all the floodgates they play.

[@theWIIISEguy]

It's because certain narratives people carry as their basis for their opinions are founded with rhetoric and shallow concepts, as they haven't explored any of the issues they have. They just use the rhetoric and the narrative as a way to justify their unexplored and shallow opinions.

[@yuseifido5706]

It's not just floodgates, but shutting your opponent out of the game in general. Some people only see one part of the broader issue

[@leakypeach6250]

I have a guy at my locals who said that it's not a floodgate if you can play through it... he plays Zombie World and Necrovalley in the same deck.

[@PersonaSimon]

I literally had to argue about flood gates and he called me combo hungry negate floodgate apologist. He play Floo.

[@talolyon8651]

Just because he plays them doesn't mean he doesn't think they are a problem. Abusing powerful cards is what people do in all card games.

[@aurabeast2468]

This what the tcg mindset created; it’s either you have to go off or play floodgates to stand a chance. If you get rid/slow down the spamming, floodgates will not be needed/ won’t be as impactful

[@Shrimp4Gura]

I have 9 available to play decks in my bag, but i dont play at my locals anymore cuz they are all meta slaves and dont have fun decks besides edison or goat decks. Like Im trying to play my decks for fun and everyone just plays tournament meta, so its not fun for me anymore going to my local shops.

[@vileluca]

@@Shrimp4Gura I stopped playing with a buddy of mine when he proxied a Baronne de Fleur.

[@armorparade]

​@@vilelucabaronne isnt even that big of a deal, it's powerful but it doesn't cross that line of "man, why do you get all that?" for me it's a sameturn pop with a single-use omni and it's not a valid option outside of synchro decks. most times you're not losing to baronne you're losing to the actual "why does that card do that much" options in their deck. in terms of near-staples, baronne is way more tolerable to me than something like accesscode. like if the homie comes in with an accesscode proxy and i'm not playing stuff on that level i'm gonna raise an eyebrow lol

[@aurabeast2468]

Just give us maxx C back; there is a reason why the ocg has a much more diverse and actually skillful formats than all or nothing tcg format in all honesty

[@xSerenaYGO]

​@@Shrimp4Gura you do know that some of the "meta slaves" find the meta deck they're playing fun right? just because you dont find it fun doesnt mean they dont.

[@Halomasterchief16]

Continued bad card design for decades will do that to a game. The argument of "get rid of floodgates" is not invalidated by power crept cards being too busted. Both should go. You should not be able to tell your opponent to pound sand during their turn. They shouldn't be able to do it to you either. And Ishizu Tearlament-style "our turn" effects are not the solution to that.

[@Cybertech134]

Yes, both should go, but the true issue lies in which one of those people want to go first. People are clamoring for the banning of floodgates BEFORE removing the issues that necessitate them. Combo must go first before floodgates.

[@homelessperson5455]

True, so many people just give up on the possibility for good game design and settle.

[@Xero-rr2ol]

@@Cybertech134 Combo is fine. Generic cards are the issue.

[@orga7777]

Which is why set rotation is needed at this point.

[@tai_you]

“Our” turn cards/decks are the closest we have to the game being playable by both people at this point. The power level of the cards in todays meta game is over the top and if you can’t play and ruin your opponent’s turn on their turn you pretty much lose. Obviously, it’s trash that the game is like this now and something has to be done but I’ll take “our turn” over “only you get to play and I have to scoop because I didn’t top deck a board breaker”

[@Aliya_Akane]

at this point yugioh feels more like an arms race than a game imo

[@randyyang3420]

Yep, that's how Konami makes its money, power creep over the last formats cards to earn more revenue.

[@StefanDillandMarcRIP]

25 years of power creep, no alternate formats, and lack of balancing is why it's at this point. You can't just print whatever you want and rely on a banlist as a crutch. you still need to have good game design. At this point cards are so strong, there is no where to go but more powerful. The effects aren't incremental enough. There needs to be more give and take. There is no resources to pay for things so most things either get negated or don't. There is no inbetween. There is no "destroy this monster, if this effect gets negated draw a card" type design. They just spit out powerful effects with either all in or nothing. Good games give you options and multiple avenues. If you discard your opponents entire hand, there should be something negative happen to you. But cards designed in 2005 were not designed with card from 2022 in mind. So you end up with things that are supposed to have a drawback, but combine it with something that turns that drawback into neutral or even upside is not good. I don't see how they fix this at this point without just making a new format.

[@DonMarzzoni]

Nicely put

[@topsnek1375]

Well, they made rush duels, which is a nice fix to a lot of the problems of modern yugioh. I just don't know why it isn't in TCG yet

[@Berzerkarin]

I think the speed of the game really pronounces the unfairness since everything is done in one or two turns depending on the board state you might only see 5 cards of your deck and scoop up, where as in older formats you'd get to play out a little longer see more cards and do your thing until you lost to some unfair monster or combo but youd at least leave satisfied at doing something. I really hope edison format takes off, it could parallel Magic in a way where the people who were tired of standard went off and played a more casual format where the mindset was focused on fun and janky plays and it became magics most popular format.

[@Hurricane1990]

I half joke that each player can draw 5 cards, show them to each other and determine the winner that way.

[@haydenlee8332]

Paul with another based analysis!! I still think the main problem is Komoney blatantly being greedy: They print out broken/unfair deck so people would pay exorbitant amount of money to pull them from packs. Then they either 1) ban them or limit them to oblivion, or 2) print even more broken decks/cards so people will spend more money on them. It's getting pretty gross.

[@Eemi_Seppala]

The power creep is what keeps me out of this game and the complexity/precision needed to play a deck keeps me from teaching it to anyone. I like to experiment and make niche decks, but the fact that I must include certain cards in the deck ruins it for me.

[@squishysnail]

I still think the kind of dueling that is in Yugioh Structures is kind of what I wish what yugioh was more like

[@Tyler-Wiley]

It's been unfair, look at how the TCG is run vs the OCG. The Ban list is used to promote new decks instead of balancing the game. I'm not sure how much more of this trash the players can take before quitting, but it's frustrating to be financially abused.

[@SteveTheDog115]

bwahhh how dare you assume konami specifically hit naturia and not runick for naturia runick because nat beast is a hard counter to sky strikers! (I already miss my planty bois and vernusylph deck :< )

[@vileluca]

All the answers you described to the combo deck, Nibiru, Dark Ruler, Lock Bird, etc, are all generic cards. That's my problem. Unless I dedicate a good chunk of my deck to non-archetype cards, I can't do anything about it.

[@invertbrid]

Thats how it supposed to be, even then ts not enough to control the power of turn 1 in YGO, but at least still nice band aids to the core problem. Everyone shouldve have good generic cards like floodgates, evenly, DRNM, nibiru, lava golem etc to stop whatever modern YGO decks going to do on turn 1.

[@gravekeepersven82]

You can't be merciful to your opponent's anymore start using going second cards or you will not make it

[@michaelstephens4992]

​@@gravekeepersven82Yep. I actually run nib in my main deck just to punish the combo heavy decks

[@gravekeepersven82]

@@michaelstephens4992 I'm playing a rogue trap deck and even I'm having to side out the solemn Judgment for evenly Matched in addition to Nibiru to deal with the crazy.

[@vileluca]

@@invertbrid Only in formats where a side deck is used. In a single duel format, having to devote half your deck to "meta staples" is a sign of an extremely unhealthy game.

[@HanKage98]

Konami saw the tendency of the meta players liking the "lock your opponent out of the game" and simply gave what the meta players asked for. For me, the most unfair thing are the cards that deny all kind of response, such as super-poly. DRNM can still be denied by spell/traps, even monsters if you have the right cards. Also, I don't think super-poly is the main problem, is another symptom of the same disease of 6 negations on first turn.

[@SuperSonic3557]

Hard agree one this one.

[@nistral]

this is kinda why i love watching the structure deck duels that you guys do - they're a lot more my pace and there's always variety between the two decks getting matched up. the duels feel a lot "fairer" and there's plenty of opportunity for interaction and counterplay. imo as a casual fan (and not a player), that's what i like the most.

[@OG-512]

Same here

[@Hurricane1990]

The structure decks seem to have the right power level and most of the cards seem to have a “fair” design meaning cards mage meaningful costs and restrictions to activate and use.

[@ich3730]

thats because the games are rigged to ensure you have a good viewing experience lol. Its not like the game you watch is the first and only one they played, its the one take out of dozens that looks the best

[@Trekkie46]

Many years ago, pretty sure it was during MR3, Cimo had a video analyzing a deck to help people play. One of his criteria was along the lines of, "what does this deck do that's unfair?" Unfairness has always been a recognized trait in the game.

[@rampart5631]

I think you hit the nail on the head. Yugioh players just want to be able to play their deck and do whatever they want, but they also dont want to let their opponents play. If that's done to them, then they get upset

[@iatdtv4996]

2023 yugioh is 2005 yugioh on steroids and I'm happy with it. Its just progress. Also, Penultimate means "the one before the last or second from the end"

[@xgqv]

this game is toxic. i'll never stop playing it.

[@6210classick]

A true duelist 💪

[@Chris_Tootoo]

Post Djinn Nekroz format was a perfect format. The amount of tier 2-3 decks that COULD play was great, the match ups might be a little one sided but the amount of side boards you had made plenty of other decks a contender to a mild degree. And the fact that duels could go on more than 3 turns was great since people actually got to play.

[@VB2P360]

Genuinely such a good format

[@invertbrid]

Imo edison is the best, u can play literally lot of decks and still win. Plus its good balance between fast and slow, game can literally goes until turn 10+. Fun, interactive, back and forth YGO everyone wanted to play.

[@four-en-tee]

Define "unfair" Like, in Magic the Gathering, there's plenty of spells that just exile (banish) everyone's graveyards, and there's cards that when played together just let you spawn a million tokens over the course of a few turns. Though they're fine in Magic because there's a lot of time for both players to each do shit and establish their own board states in that game and draw answers to those potential problem cards. In Yugioh, you don't have that. You're at the mercy of whatever you open with if you're going second. And its always been a thing in Yugioh, regardless of how long games take in historic formats, because this game doesnt have a resource system, so the only thing keeping cards in check is the banlist. Honestly, i think what might be the most fair thing to do would be to increase the amount of cards drawn during the draw phase so that there's more chances to see potential outs to certain cards. I'd also consider looking into maybe a new mechanic that can pull cards from outside the game. Magic has cards that do this which allow them to either answer or generate whole plethora of different strategies. Think of it like Triple Tactics Thrust, but you can grab any card from your side deck. And in casual games of Magic, it can be literally any card that isnt in your deck so long as you own it.

[@SMIFSON]

If I could change one thing in YuGiOh, I'd remove negates from monsters. Monsters are powerful enough, they can have all kinds of other effects, but I feel like negates should be linked to spells and traps. It would slow the game down a little bit but it would speed up traps and make them playable again, and all these unbreakable boards with several omni-negates wouldn't be a thing anymore, allowing both players to play the game a little bit, instead of an insta-scoop after your first monster gets negated.

[@Evan20000]

Modern Yugioh is like the Ubers format in competitive pokemon right now. Everything is objectively cracked and ridiculous, but within the equilibrium of the other 12 (check out the number of decks topping since the start of June; this is genuinely one of the most open formats we've had in years) decks, the gap in power between them is fairly small and there's an equilibrium. However, much like Ubers, you can easily lose the game in a single bad interaction/misplay/or failing to put up a "cope board" when hit with interactions from your opponent. A lot of the sentiment of "everything is really unbalanced" tends to come from misplaced expectations of what the game "should" be imo, like a UU player wondering why Ubers is so explosive. Games can still often go to Turn 4-5+ now as long as the deck on the back foot is able to put up something to stop it from dying the following battle phase, even if this isn't a floodgate. Additionally, since decks can often rebuild entire boards off 1 card now, every turn you don't actually finish off your opponent they're liable to draw a starter that you don't have an interaction for and they just build their board back since every deck goes +1/+2 off pretty much every in-engine card now uninterrupted. Which I guess brings us to the next point; for control decks to even conceptually exist without just being floodgate turbo, they need to find some way to profit off 1:1 exchanges otherwise they just get out-resourced and lose. This is why stuff like Engage was printed, why stuff like Runick Fountain exists, why stuff like Big Welcome and Lady Labrynth exist. The past 2 banlists have done a good job depowering the game from the craziness that was Spright+Elf and Tear Zero format in terms of increasing the field of options of decks you can play, but that certainly doesn't change the fact that so many cards just feel miserable to be hit by like you've touched on. Gettign Kurikara'd for 3 or EEV'd for 5 is painful, but stepping back and looking at the majority of games, these types of blowouts are getting rarer and rarer. The German Nationals were a big deal to people precisely because it was increasingly an outlier as opposed to how common Gumblar loops every game were a few years back. Since floodgates and similar seem to be here to stay, regardless of what people's individual feelings on their contribution to the health of the game are, I think the best options going forward are designing archetypes with more in-engine outs to floodgates so that they force you into weird lines of play to beat (thus provide some advantage to the opponent and are worth playing), but don't just automatically end the game because you didn't draw Feather Duster/Lightning Storm. In addition to that, I think more generic cards that out permanent floodgates but don't necessarily have a high opportunity cost/aren't terrible going first yet overall lower power ceiling/not mega blowout cards would be a good direction for card design to go.

[@Shrimp4Gura]

Ive been running Gravity Collapse for years in my Karakuri and Speedroid and ive had people tell me "man thats really good" or "why does nobody use this?" Nobody has told me that it should be banned or anything, even though it prevents the opponents from summoning monsters for the turn

[@omnistasis]

So basically, this is a "If ypu can't beat em, join em" situation. I dislike it so much. Similar to playing pokemon atm for me, everything is so powercrept, it's just no fun anymore. So, I play what I like at this point, and I honestly run mainly pure decks for that reason. I lose often, but win just as often. I try not to let the meta rob me of the joy of these games I've loved for 20+ years, so I avoid comp

[@kyletrevino5168]

This is why I've really been liking Master Duel, all the events they have like every two weeks with custom ban lists where they get rid of a lot of the meta BS has been really great. Like the one going on right now, Legend Anthology: Academy Festival. I've been playing Toons, and having an absolute blast! Hardly any hand traps, no crazy OP meta cards just good 3-20 turn Yu-Gi-Oh games. Like last night I fought a Gaia the Fierce knight deck and we just had a old fashioned battle. I would love to see stuff like this in the TCG

[@UltracoreUltraUranium]

The thought process is the ‘Syndrome’ paradox..with everyone being super no one is. That boils down to RNG to win more than skill. Also, COMPETITION is a word that is as heavy granite. Players simply want to WIN and winning extinguishes complaints. Kevin Durant went to the team that took him out, won, and many can care less.

[@TastySnackies]

As someone with not much competitive experience since Spellbooks format, and who mostly plays Magic, it genuinely seems like the huge cloud that affects “unfairness” lies in two factors: the first is that it’s still trying to solve fundamental game design problems from twenty years ago, and secondly, the lack of rotation.

[@theWIIISEguy]

I'd add in that players aren't being as competitively creative as they can be. The library of cards is huge, and time after time, decks and cards that people laughed at or told me I was going to waste my time or money with ended up being more viable and successful than protected. I'm not saying I'd stumble upon goldmines. But I was told Dream Mirror was garbage. I successfully and somewhat consistently beat combo decks like Blackwings, Six Samurai and took a few games off a Traptrix pre-structure support. I was told Rescue ACE was a waste of money and that it was gonna be trash. I took it locals twice, beat the best player there in casuals and the second time, i entered and placed 2nd. People would call unfamiliarity but I took note that players were running and had things that could stop and counter me well. The matches just didn't work in their favor. That's not to say I'm great either. But my bottom line here is that i also think it's players being to caught up in the "meta-bubble"

[@tai_you]

Rotation would be really nice just so that out of line strategies or cards can just be removed from the list of things to deal with once their time comes. Not only that but power levels could be adjusted up or down per rotation in the event of an overbearing or underwhelming format. I doubt Yu-Gi-Oh could do it this far into its life span but it’d be nice.

[@romkin1197]

Rotation cannot physically exist in yugioh, that is what makes yugioh appealing. Being able to spend all this money on cards from 20 years ago or so and still being able to use them in today's game (provided they're not on a banlist). Like Neko Mane King for example was seen as a bad card back in the day of its release, however it now sees play in Dark Worlds considering they can discard it on opponent's turn due to Grapha, Dragon Overlord of Dark World. But we also have to look at how many terrible cards are also in yugioh as well. Look at Sparks for example, deal 200 damage to your opponent, why would anyone actually play that in a serious environment? We have over 10,000 cards, and there's a crap ton of "useless" vanilla monsters and a crap ton of "bad" spell/traps for them.

[@pokeyoureyeman2288]

​@@romkin1197I think if YGO provided support for their terrible cards it could help balance the game. There's almost no reason to play normal monsters with low stats; Even when YGO first came out. Why would I play Beaver Warrior when I could play Battle Ox. Why would I play Battle Ox when I can play Enraged Battle Ox. The biggest thing YGO needs to re-work is tribute summoning and special summoning.

[@vehicledestroyer]

​@@romkin1197 no rotation has never been draw to play ygo and it was never advertised as such. Set rotations could be easily accommodated it's just the one track mind of ygo stans can't understand that sometimes the game needs to change. Which is kinda weird they don't understand that when it's their primary argument to why they think "yugiboomers" are "upset". For some reason they can't see that they exist on the other side of the same coin. Except Konami is still shitting on them

[@codyhanson1344]

eradicator epidemic virus is a perfectly okay card for the modern game. It's a legitimate trap card, that actually takes some setup (its slow and costly) while being fairly situational. Yes, sometimes it'll knock out quite a large chunk of cards and have broken moments, but it doesn't always do so super reliably. Not to mention the existence of other cards that can also take care of a ton of cards at once, which require far lesser setup.

[@LLewliet-pz6ve]

What card that's not banned can rip at least 2 cards from the opponent's hand while giving valuable info? The real problem is Labrynth.

[@cameton_youtube]

This is where I think having multiple formats helps a lot. For example, Pauper is a much slower version of Modern or Standard, but isn't less interesting because of it. It's one of my favorite MTG formats

[@Practitioner_of_Diogenes]

I'd actually enjoy formats like that. It's why the only event in Master Duel I enjoyed was N/R. It forced theorycrafting. The biggest problem with alternative formats is they need to be supported by Konami (most of the time, anyway) for people to actually be interested. And only till recently has Konami shown any actual interest in supporting an alternative format; a whole tournament in Edison format.

[@SunnyHF-nf4bc]

@cameton_youtube Facts.

[@07Sader]

The best way to sum up the modern game and how people feel regarding unfair things is: "Rules for thee but not for me." The most unfair thing in my deck is CED in my Chaos control deck, as my group permits unerrata'd cards. He's the universal solvent. (:

[@SuperSilver316]

Icejades have the one sided skill drain that requires three cards to work. It’s not perfect, but if your opponent can’t get over it, it can definitely swing the game in your favor.

[@michaelbevan1081]

It’s a deck I picked up a while because it took my interest; I have been using the Loaner Deck on ‘ master duels,’ and I have enjoyed it. I have rare games where I can accumulate all three cards on the field .

[@gavinkayson99]

I think moreso the issue that I have with modern yugioh is that it's not just super powerful but a lot of it's power is concentrated into single cards with specific utilities. So the person who goes first definitely has the advantage because they can choose what cards they want to beat in a specific matchup (most of the time anyway) then it's on the opponent to have the correct answer to whatever board the opponent builds. More often than not if the opponent did find the right answer they win and if not they lose. If you go first and you draw a specific two card combo your deck goes nuts and if not your deck can answer one or two things. If your opponent has more than 1 or 2 interactions/starters then they usually win but if they happen to draw answers that don't line up into your threats than they lose. So it then becomes a rock paper scissors of whether or not you're packing the right answers for your opponents board if you're on the draw or if you're on the play whether or not you're packing the right responses to their answers. Personally, I want to play a game where there's more than rolling dice and playing rock paper scissors. Obviously there is at higher levels but even then I have to wonder how many games are still decided by that factor and if high level play is just trying to minimize it. Those are just my thoughts.

[@mulldrifterz6469]

People just need to stop proclaiming cards are 'unfair' as often as they breathe. There are very few unfair cards in reality. If you're competitive at all, you'll have some varying degree of very strong and powerful cards. It's been this way since the beginning of Yu-Gi-Oh and always will be here. Floodgates, towers, negates, etc etc are not unfair. It's a different way of playing the game. You lost to Rivalry of Warlords? Well there are plenty of decks out there that don't. You made the decision to play the deck you did, and your opponent made the decision to play what they did. THAT is Yu-Gi-Oh. The person that made the best decision wins games, it's simple.

[@Realdeal958]

I think one thing that's an issue as well is that after setting up these crazy boards some players still have 4 to 5 cards in their hand for a combo. Granted, i don't play IRL and only Master Duel and could be wrong on this, but i do think it's something that may play a part in how crazy it is

[@isidoreaerys8745]

Yeah. I can deal with your Herald of ultimateness, and appoulousa. I’ve counted the negates in my head and assuming your facedown is an Imperm I should have just enough gas to get one starter through. Oh. Never mind. Your 1 card combo deck means you you had 2 ghost girls and an effect Veiler in your hand as well. Great.

[@Realdeal958]

@@isidoreaerys8745 it's an unfortunate aspect of the game that I've come to accept honestly.

[@toastertubbo]

theres a quote that goes something like "an eye for an eye makes the world blind." if both players are equally obnoxious, it doesnt balance and cancel out, it just makes the game wholly obnoxious. we always had power cards like the solemns, board wipes, spot removal etc. but in the past there havent been many formats where the goal was to make unbreakable multi-negate boards rather than out-valuing opponents in the long game, or using game knowledge

[@raptorlewis273]

The problems feel more structural than it being tied to any singular strategy or card. When you look at the rules and how broad they are, it's not hard to see how it got this way. While they've allowed for amazing builds and combos, something Yu-Gi-Oh excels at, it has allowed for ridiculous effects with little to no balanced trade-offs for either player leaving no push and pull. Take the lack of special summoning caps or lack of summoning sickness like in Magic for example. You can get your best monsters with an absurd attack stat to just nuke your opponent's life points the same turn and then special summon another monster that also gets an attack of its own extending the battle phase and allowing players to mow each other down in a single turn. And that's not counting broken chains as you mentioned. So, there needs to be something that caps that and adds actual boundaries in the rules. Then, there's the lack of currency and/or specifics for spell and trap cards like Speed Counters in 5Ds, Mana from Magic the Gathering, or the various things in Vanguard like "soul blasts" that work like XYZ material costs, flipping over damage units to pay for abilities, cards only working in a pure archetype deck like the clan idea, or effects that any deck can stop with the right strategy rather than a specific card. I think if you look at Yu-Gi-Oh structurally, there're lessons from card games like Magic and Vanguard that would serve the game well and give it much needed balance without sacrificing the things that drew us to it in the first place.

[@sterling8389]

I kinda think of the game like a puzzle. My opponent will build a puzzle for me to solve. Sometimes they will throw a wrench in my plans, so I try to make it as far as I can to limit their follow up when it's their turn to solve my puzzle. It goes back and forth until the other player doesn't have the resources to solve the puzzle. My problem with floodgates and lingering effects is that instead of making solving the puzzles easier, it just pulls up the solution for you, making the puzzle the other player set up worthless. It takes the skill part of the game out of player's hands. A barrier isn't being thrown up while solving the puzzle, really, you aren't even engaging with the puzzle at all. There are insanely broken decks, and that does need to be addressed. But cards that turn duels into non-games aren't acceptable either. Bottom Line is, I want to engage with my opponent in a fair duel where both of our cards can do insane things, but not so insane that your opponent can't use theirs

[@invertbrid]

Hard in modern YGO, u might want to look for alternate formats. Which let u do those thing.

[@mamamia5905]

Your answer made a lot of sense to me. That’s kinda how I see it as well when i’m playing. Or in other situations i’m already thinking of A,B and C if so and so doesn’t work out until I have no more moves. Kinda like Chess i’m thinking three steps ahead.

[@DonMarzzoni]

Nicely put. But Konami will never actually listen.

[@dudeguy8686]

If fairness was the goal, we might as well just flip a coin and call it a game. If winning is the goal, then by all means necessary, win. As fun and entertaining as a solid back-and-forth match can be, that's for a casual game, or the anime.

[@codystevenson9648]

Fairness can be summed up by a few different metrics- Maximum power level- the absolute best board state a deck can achieve in terms of advancing your win con Weaknesses- the range of things that can prevent or minimize the impact of your end boards Resources- the amount of cards it takes to get your plays going Consistency- how often you can achieve your ideal end board Minimum power- the weakest board you can expect to make with the least ideal opening hand For a deck to be fair, it can't score highly on every metric. An end board can't be easy to achieve AND nearly unbreakable, AND take only one card to get off the ground, AND have tons of support to search your key cards, AND still be super powerful even if your play gets interrupted. A powerful board is fair if your opponent has ways to interrupt or respond or can make a similarly powerful board of their own. If you're familiar with call of duty, you know that every game has a distinct powerful weapon, usually an AR or SMG with the best damage, range, fire rate and recoil control, but the best CODs are the ones where the best weapons are the best by smaller margins and specialized weapons are still dominant in their appropriate roles and game scenarios. The game wouldn't be fun if everyone was using the same gun and perk and killstreak setup because it's only ever a massive disadvantage not to.

[@TLHGONZO]

What this game needs is to be slowed down. Too much can be done in one turn while losing little-to-no card advantage. Yugioh has no resource accumulation mechanic and so it will continue to get more and more broken until a major change in game mechanics is implemented.

[@VenatorXVenator]

Meh, as someone who started a little over a year ago, that was the whole appeal to modern yugioh to me. It felt more like the anime than the old card game did. When I was new and I see all these decks doing all these different things I’ve never seen before, making crazy boss monsters, then passing turn to little ole me on evil eye to try beat their “unstoppable “ monsters.

[@stevensqt5990]

i still enjoy the "trap hole" era of YGO. Give me a gemini elf vs vorse raider. those were the days. I can't take all this new infinite turn plays. it's ridiculous.

[@savenwas]

I love your guys' channel. I got into trading card games because of it, but then slowly branched out to Digimon TCG instead of Yu-Gi-Oh because of economic factors but also meta wise. It just feels like I see nothing but negativity or "we need X changes to fix yugioh" content when it comes to this TCG. I never had a compelling reason to play and probably never will, but, I do live vicariously through the people on this and the main channel because it's fun to see ya'll play.

[@kingkhi20]

2:09 LMAO PAUL YOUR FACE SAID IT ALL 😂 you’re right he had no choice lol

[@IzzysIssues]

Thanks for articulating this. Ive been trying to step back into Yu-Gi-Oh from Magic after not having played for about a decade, and Master Duel feels like I'm watching a game of solitaire more often than not. I understand the learning curve is pretty steep but trying to understand the synergy and how the game has evolved is more of a challenge than I anticipated.

[@spitfire9434]

Just a thought for cards like max c for balancing. If they added a new condition to it that your life points have to be equal to or less than your opponents to activate it. That way no one can just sit there and drop it after styling on you when you needed to make a come back, while also being applicable to balancing out the first turn if your opponent is going off. Because if you draw into an out against them and they stop summoning, you stop drawing. Both players would be in a decent state.

[@osiobasi]

Honestly I think the main problem with yugioh now is how generic everything is. A lot of the boards you see from combo decks usually have the same monsters like baronne and savage and Apollousa. I think if these powerful cards had more restrictions like baronne requiring Fleur synchron or a synchron tuner or savage dragon requiring a rocket non tuner then ppl wouldn’t be as mad because they wouldn’t be as common. I think yugioh needs to find a way either to errata a lot of these engines and extra deck cards to have harder summoning and activation conditions. I believe this would lead to more diverse deck building and more unique end boards. Doing this they could also get rid of all these powerful floodgates from the monsters/spells/traps like skill drain and rivalry and runick fountain (don’t like that archetype) as well as super powerful board breakers like super poly or drnm or evenly matched because now decks wouldn’t have as much unbeatable boards where you need these powerful floodgates and board breakers just to have a turn. I believe doing this would lead to games that actual feel fun and interactive and unique and would last more than turn 2.

[@Rossco1010]

I think it really does come down to 3 things. Generic boss monsters that carry crazy powerful effects. No cost floodgates that dont require resources to use. Multiple negates on a board. If these three things are addressed in yugioh you would never need those unfair board breakers like DRNM or Super poly. I really truly feel like there needs to be a hard rule on the amount of negates you can use per turn, maybe one monster effect negate+one spell/trap or search negate, or just 1 omni negate. That still gives the potential for combo stopping and problematic boss monsters, but means you cant make 7 negates for your opponents 6 cards in hand. I use to say you limit the number of special summons, but I dont think thats the issue, its setting up so many negates and going plus on each interaction thats the problem. The legends anthology event in master duel showcases this pretty well, its very hard to set up more than 1-2 negates/interactions, and turns generally take more than 2 for the game to be over as few decks on that mid range power level can OTK. You wouldnt need to go that crazy on a banlist+rule change to make modern yugioh less unfair, but steps like that would help. It sucks that a large objective in yugioh is just dont let your opponent play at all, because playing yugioh is fun when you actually get to play and interact with your opponent.

[@D4Skewer]

One thing that would make the game much more playable is attribute locking. Generic Extra Deck monsters can only be made if the materials have either the same type or the same attribute, that way decks can't just throw Baronne DeFleur into it. If you want to make a Baronne, you have to be either playing Warriors or WIND type monsters. This would slow the game down tremendously as people can't just throw what works into a deck. Likewise, you'd need to get rid of breaker cards like DRNM or Kaijus seeing how something like a Baronne would now be a heavy investment as opposed to something you can get out with one or two cards.

[@truekingofallgeneraiders]

This are the "Unfair thigs of my decks": Generaider😮: tbh, everytime i resolve monstrosity i end up winning that game. That card's just a quick play double Kashtiratheosis for level 9s. Dinomorphia: Rexterm time baby!!!! Mikanko: You should read Hu-li. Purrely: Draw 6 goes brrrrr

[@FoolShortOG]

I don't think a good solution to broken cards, is other broken cards. I don't have an answer for how yugioh can be 'fixed', but this problem comes from the desire to sell cards, they need to entice players to repeatedly invest in the game, the only way they can assuredly do so, is constant power creep, the issue is, you'll lose a portion of the player base, so monetization will be pushed hard on the die hards, and yugi-tubers become an ad for Konami, ensuring they have reach to those core die hards, promoting the tcg market and buying new packs with sponsored videos. It seems Konami would rather eventually run yugioh in to the ground, than change strategy. But hey, I'm just some guy with an opinion.

[@PiantaBroker]

eradicator virus is 2023 version of crush card. Everyone feels the pain of the past

[@RrraverCrow]

Crush Card got errata'd hard. EEV just had one anime moment and now everyone is afraid.

[@niclasnielsen9794]

I like that Yu-Gi-Oh doesn't do rotations because it really stinks when your favorite cards/decks are out of a game, but I think we need some kind of system that would lower the power of older decks so new ones don't have to be ridiculous in order to power creep them. I know that the ban list is sometimes used for this, but i don't think that a ban list with the way it works today would be fitting for this kind of system

[@Gaming_Groove]

I feel like a simple solution is a curated core set like Magic has done. New sets would be on a rotation, with the most recent core edition being legal as well. This would allow Konami to actually design a game holistically around a limited card pool while allowing old cards to be used, and gives them a reprint set to sell. They could actually test based on what is available rather than just post hoc banning and unbanning cards across the entire history of the game. Include, say, the top 10 archetypes/themes that aren't completely busted in their base form, and then it opens up an opportunity for new sets to be designed to include unique new support cards to keep those core set archetypes interesting. Then they can release new core sets every few years to keep things fresh, designing them to work with the current booster block/rotation. It's a fundamental change in their production process I'm sure, and they have no reason to as long as they are making money, but if the question is how to make a game that is fair and fun without endless power creep while letting players continue to use older cards, that's one possible solution.

[@ich3730]

What are you talking about? Sure, you CAN play your beatdown deck from 2003 in a tournament but you are not going to play very much xD Old decks/cards will ALWAYS eventually rotate out of relevance. Doesnt matter if through set rotation or plain old powercreep.

[@niclasnielsen9794]

@@ich3730 Absolutely. Thats not what im dening, im saying that when you don't rotate cards the power level will never reset or go down, it will just keep going up because the new things have to be stronger than the old. And I think the game has spiraled out of that path for so long that the game is getting ridiculous

[@Darien4life]

Updating the official rules to add a restriction to how many special summons are allowed per turn seems like a good idea. That's the real issue imo at it's core.

[@Fencer_Nowa]

This would create a stun format.

[@Darien4life]

@@Fencer_Nowa Ya i could see that. Still 1 solution doesn't solve it all. Just like what you pointed out. I do still believe that the ability to Special summon has gotten severely out of hand

[@ich3730]

that would kill dozens of innocent archetypes that never had relevance... what a way to kill the game!

[@Darien4life]

@@ich3730 Cry harder while being unable to even provide a solution.

[@gemodemplay415]

I know you will not read my comment Paul, but in case you do: maybe there is the need to add a new type of card, outside Monster, Spell and Trap cards. Have a Rule card in a new special zone. And these rule cards can be something like I dunno, both player can only special summon twice or you cannot negate more than 3 times or things like that. These cards will be unnafected by anything except other Rule cards that overwrite them or maybe they should have a timer or a counter thst decreases each turn until it get to zero and the card destroy itself. Something like that. I mean already we have cards in the game that feel like Rule cards, why not have Rule cards too? This way you will be able to play a different Yugioh with each game, with different rules. I think this will be cool. I actually made a Yugioh Joey the Passion mod and added this type of card with the help of a friend who wrote new codes for the game and it feels great honestly. Also modded Yugioh 5d Tag Force 6 to test this with more advanced cards and again it worked like a charm. Just an idea.

[@darkmason52]

so i recently put one of my favorite decks back together "gusto" and the unfair thing it does is uses windwitchs to make crystal wing synchro dragon and makes you take the damage from battles.

[@lunarSoul0]

I use that in my speedroid deck. Crystal that cant be destroyed by card effect seems OP on paper

[@romkin1197]

The way I see it is, combo and control decks do the same exact thing, both lock the other player out through different means. People like to constantly say I'm wrong, but if you look at the end board they both try and lock the opponent out of the game. If your opponent cannot play the game, you effectively win. With that being said, what is actually unfair is when a single card can do too much. Mystic Mine is a perfect example of that, as long as you have less monsters than your opponent, your opponent cannot play the game at all. When you also have Traptrick, Lilith, Metaverse, Ojama Trio/Duo with Mystic Mine, it becomes extremely efficient as nearly any of these 2 cards listed is effectively full combo for Mystic Mine. What can also feel unfair is when a person opens up a 1 of Harpie's Feather Duster when you're playing a heavy trap deck or if you bricked and the most you can do is set 2 Imperm and 2 Called By while having Ash in hand. Because you cannot play and you have to hope you draw into a card that starts your combo, but now there's a problem, you can't free play as much since you lost your Imperms and Called By. RNG is very much part of the game, sometimes these things just happen. What is truly unfair is when people say "Such and such thing is unfair cause it won't let me play." while they play a deck that can completely shut down the other player especially if the situation is extremely rare to happen in the first place like what happened with Eradicator Epidemic Virus it isn't very often that you will hit all cards in your opponent's hand. That's just RNG at work should it be banned because of that? No cause the chances of that happening are slim to none. What is also unfair is when Konami had changed how a virus card worked in a regionals if I recall during Nekroz format cause a Dark World was beating a Nekroz player really badly because of it.

[@Sioux-periorGaming]

In my Infernoble deck, my unfair card is Crooked Cook. I rank into it using the Heroic engine and Astral Kuriboh. The main combo is to either open with Astral or search it out and then either search out Heroic Challenger - Extra Sword, normal summon it if in my opening hand or use Isolde to bring it out. Crooked Cook then gains 1000 atk and gains battle and card destruction immunity even when he isn't the only card on my field. I usually then try to equip him with all the Infernobles and because they are monsters (mainly equip Oliver to make him untargetable) Crooked Cook can gain a massive attack boost on my opponents turn. Worst case scenario I get Kaiju'd or they link it away with Goddess. It isn't my sole strategy but it is by far my best and strongest (offensively and defensively) boss monster.

[@civilchaos-]

I've made my own full custom deck surrounded by Sky Scourge Norleras since 2015. I've lost countlessly amount of times but each loss made me add or remove cards to the deck and now it's somewhat competitive because I've lost so much with it that the lessons I've gained from the losses have surfaced in my deck now. Yugioh wants creativity through competition. It's the art of the game.

[@Nehezir]

The solution is Leave. The game is too far gone. The only places passed this point are failed games(though YGO will probably persist through like some sort of diseased undead cadaver that due to it's entrenched playerbase). That the game is Unfair BS vs Unfair BS is not an enviable position.

[@ThatsSoGiorgio]

I’ve heard this a lot about Yu gi oh and I agree. I had finally had a solid Buster Blader deck against my friend who plays BEWD. My main engine is to lock out his dragons and deal piecing damage. Recently, he’s added Karma Cut and was constantly banished my buster blader and locking out my gameplay. I was so mad. I have negate traps so I started negating traps for the turn and then summoning my boss monster. But I understand what it’s like to be locked out of plays so it’s just the game evolving. I got Forbidden Lance and now my boss monster is protected for that turn but then he uses dark hole or change of hearts, I added magic jammer to negate his spell card or I use forbidden Lance again to save myself. Yu Gi oh is that game where you need to be prepared for something to come at you because you never know what’s going to happen. It’s not even unfair, it’s more “not fun.” I play against decks that do direct damage and never once attack my monsters or they spend their entire turn shuffling monsters from their deck to the GY and special summon and link summon and xyz summon to destroy my field and then attack me with 3 monsters. That’s no fun. I did nothing and couldn’t respond. Those games are boring. I’m not a sore loser though so I take the L. I enjoy duels where we are back and fourth. They banish my boss monster, I banish their GY and negate their spells to keep them from coming back and then I bring back my boss monster and attack them, just for them to hit me with a magic cylinder and I end myself. Even losing, it’s fun because it felt challenging and I was constantly looking to my next draw to change the tide. Yu Gi oh isn’t suppose to be fair, it’s all about building a deck that is adaptable but still consistent and that’s the fun part of dueling. I’ve been beat really bad where I didn’t stand a chance and I had to applaud because I was so impressed with such a solid combo. I don’t mind losing, I hate losing when I had no chance to even activate a single card but that’s why I play hand traps now 😅

[@tenkyoken]

Mostly play master duel, only "unfair" thing that made me salty was using Lava Golem on El Shaddoll Winda and Rukallos, only for Scream to activate on summon and after 10 minutes of bullshit on my own turn, managed to resummon the Winda and Rukallos back, now with backed by my own lava golem.

[@invertbrid]

XD. That deck will get killed eventually, just be patient. Slowly but surely few hits every months.

[@LinusIslamTips]

I came to love the Legenthology Event in Master Duel. Even Archetypes such as Warrock have a valid and strong play there. And so I wonder if the TCG should adopt the same or similar banlist/ restrictions as this event.

[@masamune100]

I play multiple card games, and I just treat YGO like Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3. I just accept that things are broken, but the top decks won't stay there forever. If I want to play a more "balanced" game, I play a tcg that use a resource like mana in MTG.

[@lyrictdk]

I hate short games, I like the back and fourth and the multiple turns. If these decks that end games in a single turn exist then so should the floodgates and the powerful cards like dark ruler no more and deck eradicator.

[@shawnmichaelsbellybuttonri9871]

I used to think "broken" cards were extremely powerful cards that were 1) hard/impossible to respond to, 2) don't require much set-up, and are 3) generic or mostly generic. Cards like Soul Drain, Super Poly, Evenly Matched, Dark Ruler No More, Skill Drain, etc. But then I realized that a lot of those cards are the only way less "meta" decks have a chance at being credible threats. Then I thought about very powerful in-archetype cards that are easy to use, easy to stop, but if you don't stop them you're essentially done for; cards like Branded Fushion, Tearlaments Kitkallos, Spright Elf, etc., but if you remove those cards from the deck, it severely cripples them and lessens their ability to compete with the top decks before them. And limiting cards doesn't do much because with most duels lasting around 3-5 turns, all limiting a card will do is decrease your chances of drawing that card, but with the powerful search effects we have, we're just slightly limiting consistency. Unfortunately, I think we're in too deep in regards to "broken" cards because now the game is based around them. Unless Yu-Gi-Oh was completely overhauled as a game, I think we're in this for the long haul.

[@hermitxIII]

To retread old ground, the difference between the game before and now is that there's too much consistency now, and cards have fake 'costs' that generate advantage, so you get to build your board and fill your hand or GY while doing it. The only thing stopping yugioh from going more buck wild than it already has become are once per turn effects preventing loops, so you could say that activating effects is practically the only 'resource' you commit to the board. It's usually more a matter of "did they use X", rather than "do they have X"?

[@Practitioner_of_Diogenes]

I'm fine with things like Droplet, Imperm, No More, and even Kaijus because either they CAN be responded to in some fashion (well, less so about Kaijus, but they don't get much out of it beyond me losing a negate or something) or have a heavy enough cost that allow me to likely play around them. But, the one card I hate, the one single card? Super Poly. At the cost of one card, I lose a monster and they get a monster that they might've made anyway, no spell, no trap, no monster can stop it. Once Super Poly is activated and the cost is done, it's a done deal. No response allowed.

[@maximillianwanner1474]

I think as far as the virus card, we dont make decks even anymore partly konamis fault. I remember when the standard of deck building was 20 monsters 10 spells 10 traps or some combo of that.

[@Ace-sd2ez]

what ever sport or game, competitive scene is always unfair.. cause everyone want to wins.. and winning is FUN cause all the time and effort they put in is finally paid off..

[@LucasBuilds]

My deck's unfair play right now is absolutely Silent Honor Ark-- I've made out like a bandit with that thing in master duel's synchro festival, going second and letting loaner deck opponents summon a sacred beast before a basic 3-summon combo that may not even need my normal summon just. eats it and leaves their board open. most 'unfair' one I've come up against was a fusion monster someone was running in a drytron deck. I forget exactly what it was, but over 3k attack, was immune to removal (so no raigeki), and negated monster effects, completely shutting out all my (suship/utopia) counterplays. That whole duel was basically them going through a gigantic combo chain and me setting one monster face down and passing turn, because I was at least gonna make sure they didn't get the bonus for a quick win.

[@containeduniverselow4790]

The main problem is you get to do too much too early: 1. You can Put any amount of cards in play including setting cards. Spells have no downside. 2. Summoning monsters whether special or normal (Floowander) having no restrictions. 3. Monsters are able to attack immediately after being put in play. Along with point #2, this causes games to feel like non-games. 8k isn't enough life with how much can be put in play and how large the average attack statistics are. You should never be able to win from your first three turns. Most of the time you don't get to see even 15% of your deck before the game is over.

[@lavalord96]

Sorry if this is too off topic but from my times being in custom servers, it's been a bit disheartening hearing people admit that they usually give up on unique mechanics for their custom archetype, and start re-making their archetype to specifically COUNTER the current meta within the server. I'm trying to make my format lean towards the older yugioh side. I wouldn't use the word "Fun" to describe the goal for my format, since it's subjective obviously, but to prevent both extremes in yugioh: Turbo out so much to make your opponent unable to play the game or reasonably play their combos, or slow down the game to such a degree that it becomes boring, or else you get another floodgate hell situation like mystic mine. Like a wise man once said, "If it's not fun why bother?" (Now for the unfair thing, timelords are basically just noob stompers as some like to call them, if you don't read they can be a real pain in the ass-)

[@invertbrid]

Modern YGO basically is beyond saving at this point. U cant say ban floodgates or board breaker as they are bandaids to YGO powercreep 1 turn play that does so much. Both need to exist all together. Only way to fix it are either: 1.HUGE banlist that will ban most generic boss monsters, floodgates, board brakers, and few other toxic cards 2. Big new master rule, that will significantly weaken how much ppl can play in 1 turn, especially turn 1. Maybe limitation to how many effect or special summon ppl can use. Tho issue with this is control / trap decks will dominate. 3. Easiest of em all. Introduce set rotation. But its the riskiest of all, as most YGO players dont like the idea of set rotation. Or....yea just play YGO as what they are, use floodgates, combos, board breakers, all u want.

[@shrajo4480]

I feel like its been the case for a while. I remember when I got back to Yu-gi-oh in my university years through YGO pro kozmo was the meta and I felt like I couldn't get back into the game because I kept getting OTK'd. It was insane to me that a deck could kill in one turn so easily and consistently. However the power creep in Yu-gi-oh has progressed where Kozmo's aren't even relevant. I remember in one video Joshua Schmidt said that when a deck loses to a good card that probably means its not meta. I kind of saw that when tearlament was meta in master duel. MBT also talked about in that one video where he said he wasn't having fun with the last format that the reason he liked tear is that it didn't really lose to a lot of blow out cards even the ones that were theoretically good against it. So even though tearlement doesn't do anything unfair by design it feels unfair to play against because there isn't much that can stop them once they get going. Usually for a deck to be considered good or even rogue it needs to do something unfair. My favorite deck is sky striker and I will say engage is kind of just pot of greed that is recyclable. Even though I think Sky Striker is one of the most fair decks (I would even say the most fair deck) we've had in recent years I get why some people think Engage is unfair since it generates as much advantage as pot of greed which is a banned card. There are a lot of combos in the game that generate more advantage than that but not a lot of singular cards.

[@walterlopez5054]

My take on the german nats Eradicator: EEV dosent need to he banned. Yeah, the kashtira player got hit for 5 spells at once. But what if his hand had been nothing but monsters or traps? The EEV would have done absolutely nothing to him.

[@LunaticKD1991]

Exactly. Most of the time they only have 1 or 2 in their hand and what they draw for those 3 turns comes down to how they built their deck and luck.

[@younasdar5572]

As a player of almost every other major card game I can say that in every one the top decks will be "unfair", and just to make the point if every ygo card except normal monsters was banned then suddenly gene-warped-warwolf and gemini elf would be meta because even then there just are better options. What looks frustrating in ygo looking in is not *that* some decks/cards are unfair but *how* they are unfair. Having boards with floodgates and big monsters and a lot of negates etc on t1 just tends to reduce what should be a competitive tcg to go-fish, where each player reveals if they have the 1 specific counter card in their hand and whoever fails to do so first looses.

[@gmjjjones]

Honestly I think this is a fundamental problem with yugioh other tcgs don't have. In other games, the environment is designed to interact and its typically a good-faith agreement that each player will have opportunity to build. In yugioh, everything is driven by archetypes and engines in a much more isolating way. As for a solution, they'd have to somehow retool their design principles to make the board state more relevant to your decision making. Almost certainly it would require starting from a point of severe decrease in complexity, so probably a new format. Still yugioh is the only tcg I can still manage to play, so it would be nice if they could make it a game where the contest isn't just a race.

[@daltonsharp6933]

I think you hit the nail on the head. People think that their end board of negates is ok except for when the other player does the exact same thing to them, then it's broken and needs banned. I honestly think at this point there needs to be a limit to special summons. I would say 6-8 in a turn, that way people who paid a bunch for a set of Nibiru don't get screwed and also combo players can get some action but not over the top as well. Hell it might even lower the amount of floodgates people play. I know the only reason I play them is because of all the meta decks people play at my locals out pace my casual decks by a Longshot.

[@alexandersavage305]

You make some great points here. I used to hate all board breakers and blowout cards, but I’ve been on the receiving end of a 9-negate dragon link or adamancipator board far more often than I’ve been hit with super poly or dark ruler. Still hate evenly though.

[@scorpioncox8978]

Seeing as what happened when I tried grinding in ranked master duel with my red eyes zombie deck, seeing abyss dweller in the thumbnail just made me twitch with rage. As for my deck’s unfair thing, probably the likes of doomking and felgrand with their ability to banish and negate along with having protection in the graveyard from mazera has certainly thrown a lot of opponents off.

[@oscartorre6003]

To fully enjoy this game you have to come to terms with the fact that is not a fair game. Sometimes I will lose to a floodgate or a broken card but I'll try to not get salty about it xD.

[@invertbrid]

Yep, we just need embrace em all, and use em to our advantage, even floodgates and board breakers are justified.

[@Boyzby]

I avoid getting salty by not playing the game. There's so much stuff going on at all times, it's just hard to get back into the game.

[@jerfuhrer2581]

I think the game lost it when boss monsters got so easy to summon that you could do a gang of them in one turn. Like, it rid the games of their fun motifs and stories. But, also, when the game go so crazy that equip cards and battle traps got phased out.

[@amir1780]

Equip cards were barely ever used

[@jerfuhrer2581]

@@amir1780 yeah. And that's a shame because they add so much flavor to the story of the games.

[@LCDigital92]

I stopped playing about 17 years ago. The main reason I’m not getting back into it is because of all the summoning and getting boos monsters out ASAP. Even with Rush Duel, I played for like a day and got bored because unlimited normal summons made it trivially easy to summon the bigger monsters. If there was something like summoning limit, then I would definitely want to play again.

[@SageTigerStar]

I was playing against a friend who has Mayakashi. I used Dimension Barrier to call Synchro once he set up his tuner/non-tuner and he nagged me so hard cuz he couldn't do anything during his first turn. Game 2, i had barrier but decided not to activate it, just to be nice...and he proceeded to deck me out on his first turn (turn 2 of the game) through the synchro-ladder/Bone Tower combo. Sometimes the evil cards are necessary, but if Konami would stop making stuff so dumb, we wouldn't NEED the BS that makes people hate playing the game. I honestly think that the game has 2 outcomes: You win in a way that makes your opponent feel bad (and you feel good because you sacked the shit out of them), or you lose in a way that makes you feel bad and your opponent is super proud of sacking the shit outta you. My style is that I like to actually PLAY THE GAME but I also want both players to have a fun time, cuz it's a game and we should enjoy playing it. I don't see many people striving to try and make the game enjoyable for both sides, more often than not, you get players who just wanna solitaire turn 1 and watch you flounder to make any moves, regretting even putting your deck on the table. Toxic af.

[@seanomahony1721]

I'm seeing reference to getting rid of generic cards here. I'd love to see a format with no generic cards at all allowed just to see what would happen. That would remove crazy combo end boards and floodgate type traps and board breakers all in one go. I've never liked the idea of cards like Accesscode Talker. If your deck is designed to otk, cool, but it's not then it shouldn't be able to whenever it likes out of the blue. Not sure if this could ever happen but it would definitely be interesting to see every deck play the way it's supposed to!

[@Zenbon111]

Cards are getting too many effects per body, little to no restrictions. Everything is too generic to the point where archetypes are dying and decks are just 1 card combo engines stiched together. You literally have to lock eachother out of specific game mechanics. I really wanted to get friends into it or new players but I cant put anyone through this game today.

[@greenbeetless]

Joshua Schmidt had this discussion on a ban list before, the only thing to do is ban half the cards or make set rotation. I miss the old days of T set and passing, but power creep happens.

[@redcastlefan]

Thing with eradicator is that unless youre spellbooks or something, Your deck shouldnt be built on you drawing 4 spells in opening hand consistently.

[@thebigandlazyguy246]

Counterpoint is that a lot of great boardbreakers are spells, let alone the stuff you might side to counter a trap deck, so if you get hit by it you're most likely fucked either way since you're most likely going to be unable to break the opp board. Evenly might be the only exception in this case.

[@redcastlefan]

@@thebigandlazyguy246 oh most definitely. I'm not saying its a balanced card at all. But let's be honest us ygo players don't really play any actually balanced or fair cards. They're all broken messes. Infact all the "meta" decks are just meta cuz they're unbalanced. It's just that eradicator is a trap, requires a specific attribute and to be above 2500 at least, and won't necessarily always Actually do something. But when it does work out sure it's pretty OP. But in contrast what about a card like secret village, as a field spell it's much more easily searchable even if it would be limited to 1. And spellcaster decks typically can fulfill it's condition with ease ofc. And some other decks can end on an extra deck spellcaster to make it live.

[@KingLeoACK]

The game has always been unfair. This game has been making me scream and tear my hair out since I could read the cards.

[@J_BYYX]

If you strip the game to just vanilla beat down, the card with highest atk and/or def immediately becomes the "unfair" card

[@R3in_Ch]

Imagine if Yu-Gi-Oh archetypes can only be used for their own archetypes, not generic (example like abyss dweller any level 4 can summon it. Access code talker ...)

[@lucasmilioni]

The thing is, floodgates are unfair in the sense of literally not being able to play cards, negates and interactive boards i get to at least play the cards even if they get negated, and it becomes a game of "can i play through all those interactions" and even if you cant most of the time it still feels like a game, and the power cards like super poly or dark ruler are not so inconcevably unfair because they don't just stop the game like floodgates, dark ruler you can still use backrow and handtraps, super poly can't get rid of 100% of your board and stuff like that. I think the game feels super fun right now, it feels interactive and fun, sometimes a single handtrap is already enough to not let your opponents board be unbreakable. What i'm trying to say is, the game is very fun and even though sometimes it feels unfair such is the nature of card games

[@nicholashamilton6274]

Another great discussion thanks for the upload Paul. I agree with the stance that Yugioh is inherently an unfair game to play but I'm honestly pretty okay with that. To me the real game is the deck building and theory crafting process. Figuring out what way a deck can be played to create an unfair state for the opponent or out and opponent's unfair game state and win the game. Playing the game is just the means to test how well what you put together works in meeting that goal. Blowing out your opponent mostly just means you've made some good choices in the deck building process. I'm okay with the fact that so much of yugioh creates non games because the fun is in building the decks and tinkering with the card list in your deck to get it to a point you are happy about it.