Frans de Waal & Yuval Noah Harari - Empathy, Ecological Collapse & Humanity’s Future Challenges

Watch primatologist and ethologist Frans de Waal speak with historian and philosopher Yuval Noah Harari, about animal vs. human behavior, our future on this planet, and much much more -- in a conversation moderated by Bartosz Węglarczyk.
Originally featured in the Freedom Games conference in September 2021.

[@IKEMENOsakaman]

I'm so, so happy to have been born in the 21st Century. I mean, I can listen to the world's brightest geniuses talk for free!!!

[@lindascanlan6317]

I know right ! They are pleased to contribute to humanity's advancement via their own .....L.

[@s._.ushitrash]

I’m so, so unhappy to have been born in Japan in the 21st century. No need for explanation….

[@somdeepkundu2506]

❤

[@GetUnlabeled]

You can also become a genius for free. I believe that you would find that more pleasing

[@AudioPervert1]

both these guys will never speak about one thing - the genocide of Palestinians. the vicious occupation and creation of the worlds biggest open air prison. Gaza... Anyways, so much for empathy and ecology business balls....

[@haifaisrail2016]

In my opinion Harary's book ''Sapiens'' must be read by every high school student. Harary is greatest historian and philosopher of the modern world .

[@ggrthemostgodless8713]

Come on!!... He is good, but the greatest?? No, unless that's the only book you have ver read. Not even of the last ten years; though HE IS GOOD.

[@danielhumphrey3836]

@@ggrthemostgodless8713 can you give some other recommendations?

[@ggrthemostgodless8713]

@@danielhumphrey3836 Well, if you have read the "model classics" of the last 500 years, that's a good start. Have you read Nietzsche?? Mark Twain? As far as sapiens, there is a great book titled "The Modern Mind" what about Orwell or Wells "The New Machiavelli". I am NOT saying Harari is no good, he is ok, but not the greatest or the "modern era". In the channel with Lex Freedman there are a few historians "Hardcore History" comes to mind.

[@danielhumphrey3836]

@@ggrthemostgodless8713 not challenging what you said about Harari i just can’t find much stuff written to that level around this era. That being said harari is much more concise and sees all sides of an argument more so than Dostoyevsky or Huxley IMO

[@shrabonibabu]

I am from India. I just listen to Mr Harire as the Buddha of our time, the epitome of wisdom. So satisfying and lucky to watch these beautiful minds interacting in the luxury of being at our homes with our recently acquired technology.

[@marc-antoinehamet9840]

Congratulations to Bartosz Węglarczyk for moderating so well this fascinating conversation. R.I.P Frans de Waal.

[@ggrthemostgodless8713]

Kudos to the mediator for letting the guests speak without interference, good at his role as advancing he conversation.

[@RKupyr]

I was going to write the same. The interviewer did not feel the need to interject himself but, instead, was satisfied in facilitating a very enlightening conversation. Bravo!

[@ggrthemostgodless8713]

@@RKupyr Seems so simple, right? Just speak as little as possible and shit the hell up, but most mediators cant do it... they have to show you how smart they are, how they can hold their own on the topic with the guest, the expert, so they ruin the intention or reason why they invited the expert!!

[@CharlesMercer]

"I think you can be perfectly happy in an unfree situation." Thanks, Frans, that's transcendent talk.

[@RKupyr]

I would imagine that both interviewees agree on the value of freedom (vis-a-vis wilful commitment, forced commitment, and other ways of sculpting a definition of freedom), even though the conversation ended with both men seemingly slightly at odds, only because "freedom" had not been clearly defined. But Frans' above statement does bring into question to what extent can people be happy (and how to measure that happiness?) under conditions that most would claim are certainly not free -- North Korean society maybe, or any country with laws.

[@Dufftata]

biased statement because he spend a great amount of time with chimps in captivity, and propably feels responsible

[@yavuzbahadrtaktak8020]

What a delightful talk! Curiosity sign on Harari's face helps to keep me more humble.

[@chaophray]

I have always had a great respect to Mr. De Wall, especially after reading his books on atheism which seemed so much more nuanced and well thought-out than many other, more popular "New Atheism" books. I greatly enjoyed this conversation. Ciepło pozdrawiam!

[@njits789]

Which book(s) are you referring to, Kabir?

[@chaophray]

@@njits789 "The Bonobo and the Atheist." There is do "Primates and Philisophers: How Morality Evolved".

[@andypeers9903]

Did the books mention that every time Atheism has been a country's "religion" that mass murders of their own citizens have been committed by governments? Russia 50 million. China 70 million

[@MjMurphy777]

Yuval is amazing. His ability to get his point across in a succinct, interesting fashion is unprecedented 👍👍

[@stephanbotes5066]

Fully agree.

[@AudioPervert1]

both these guys will never speak about one thing - the genocide of Palestinians. the vicious occupation and creation of the worlds biggest open air prison. Gaza... Anyways, so much for empathy and ecology business balls....

[@andypeers9903]

@@AudioPervert1 Didn't Israel offer the Palestinians a peace deal including land 4 times the size of Israel with massive oil deposits underneath? Didn't the Palestinians say " we will only accept the death of all Jews and Israel being removed off the map, so no deal?" Stop listening to MSM, pal.

[@antonk1527]

- I am very surprised that such a godless and immoral person can fascinate you? - He claims that man is an animal and believes in Darwinian evolutionary theory. - That's hypocritical and completely absurd. - Because such opinion is completely alien to a normal and sensible person, as a child of God. God bless you.

[@c.brughuis3518]

Watching and listening tow brilliant minds discussing the very essential is such an enjoyment. Thank you very much for the great, useful and very informative video.

[@dmm6341]

Brilliant minds???....Baabaa

[@johnnysprocketz]

​@@dmm6341 i'm not very impressed either.

[@shenlaoshi7106]

Yuval Harari is still a better and clear thinker. He has this unique ability to make everything clear and simple--he is the greatest thinker in our times. I deeply admire him.

[@rinadror]

Another fascinating and in-depth discussion of two brilliant scholars. Yuval Noah Harari continues to warn of changes in the challenges of the future of humanity. He is the modern prophet.

[@danikay150]

I can really appreciate this discussion. It's so hard to find people prepared to think intelligently instead of what seems like a default mode of judgmental ideals. Being a real self motivated humanitarian is hard to find. Awareness hopefully will inspire people to challenge their rigid unconscious belief systems, If they are able to internalise and become aware of their own bias.

[@upsty6499]

We have empathy and rationalizing which most animals don't have. There is massive differences.

[@midlearth09]

Grateful right now 😊 for listening to great rightful speakers !

[@c.brughuis3518]

Mr. Yuval Hararri, many of us would love to see you or meet with Sadhguru discussing enriching and enlightening us .. We're waiting. 😘 ♥ 🙏

[@drradhanarendra5980]

Good idea,,,,But,,,first Sadhguru must read all books of Yuval Harari...

[@louis13628]

I hope for future conversations

[@familyhealthchannel-keseha6369]

Yuval, you're amazing to explain these terms. I'm listening. Thank you.

[@weverleywagstaff8319]

Wow....love this... Wud be wonderful if we could all have conversations like this.

[@CashMoneyMoore]

Such a cool meeting of the minds. Tha ks to everyone involved. We need more open debate nowadays

[@elirothblatt5602]

This is a great watch, thank you. I’m quite enjoying!

[@vullnetkrasniqi2761]

Welcome back Harari. Hope u had a great time on retreat. Please open subtitels to the video ♥

[@eritage]

What a pleasure to listen to quiet and smart debate ! Even if there are no big revelations, it's interesting and stimulating for reflection.

[@cfcreative1]

We are living in crazy times x100.

[@lordwolfgangjosephuskaiser6778]

It's a really great podcast between two of the most influential intellectual men the biologist primatologist Frans de Waal and the medievalist military historian Yuval Noah Harari in our time, who have the greatest books and researches, who we can learn from. And their is also another great podcast of Frans de Waal with Jordan Peterson. Thank you very much for this wonderful podcast. Greetings from Germany.

[@SS-vw8ht]

Wonderful program and dialogue. Listening to great minds on KZbin is one of the greatest things and it's free.

[@miriamortiz892]

HI... I am a Mexican human being... ji.. and I am so impressed with your books... but more with From Animals into gods!!! Thats the book!!! and I am still trying to understand what does it mean to me, what do I do with all that information... and more... I don`t agree but it is true... I don`t like where we are... and where we are going!!!

[@nitroninja2170]

Another fascinating (and sometimes difficult) conversation here with Frans de Waal - on "what's real?", "who matters (including non human sentient animals?)" and "how to make a better world?" kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z6a6gnRpaJqji5Y

[@ggrthemostgodless8713]

Thanks.... it is great. New ideas and options for the future. I'm afraid he's preaching to the choir though, those who click are MOSTLY already on his side.

[@hannahlouisefitzpatrick6742]

I love Franz De Waal's books.

[@lizgichora6472]

Thank you very much; reinforcing Freedom and Responsibility.

[@commonwunder]

Dr.Fans De Waal is a Realist and Yuval Noah ( Harari ) Ferrari is a Pragmatist, that knows he's paid to be an Idealist. The difference is that Harari is 'book smart' ...he's read a lot of the 'right' books. De Waal works directly in the field and gets 'his hands dirty'. You can immediately gauge the difference between them. An idealist that only plays with ideas, can easily stay an idealist.... especially when he's handsomely paid to be an optimist.

[@chewmem4005]

유발 하라리 교수의 다양한 분야에 대한 관심에 감사드립니다. 늘 당신의 발언에 관심을 갖고 주목하고 있습니다. 한국인들의 사랑을 전합니다

[@acremidias]

Je pense que sera une plus grande contribution au débat mundial pour le bien des êtres humain.

[@drradhanarendra5980]

Yuval and Waal.....cute combination of brilliant thoughts.....prof Yuval.pl get us atleast 1per week latest talk of yours,,,,

[@upsty6499]

Humans don't have inate killing in them. Most want to cooperate, just look around, we want to be just. It's in our nature.

[@chandniajmera]

Thank you for having and sharing this wonderful conversation here. We could use more of these to balance views and help us make sense of things happening around us 💙💙

[@GuidoBeauchez]

Extraordinary meeting of minds!

[@pacosamo]

Thank you Yuval for your insightful thoughts as always. I would like to know exactly why do you think scientists should not be the ones making the political decisions? As an example, if climate change and environmental protection policies were been decided by scientists we wouldn´t be in the current situation where the solid climate science is being ignored.

[@EvelineReinke]

mhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[@tobiaszb]

42:10 about the political deadlock concerning climate change "Emotionally we are not prepared to the kind of power [of impacting the climate] that we have and that's the basic problem in todays politics."

[@nadirsaroya6791]

Very interesting discussion. They both shared their views in a very compelling way. Thanks Yuval Sir for uploading this valuable piece of knowledge..

[@tanyarunge6326]

Great thank you for presenting to us this amazing conversation of two great scientists and thinkers, Dr de Waal and Dr Harary

[@repentertohislord]

Wonderful eye-opening stuff 👏

[@stevemartin4249]

Second listen, second beer, part 1 ... Whoopee, time to kick back with a beer and some popcorn. Two of my favorite heavy hitters here. I've read and admire both, but Frans de Waal's TED talk puts him at the top of my list for researcher I'd most like to have a beer with. Formerly tenured, I also couldn't help but to crack a smile at the hints of Academia's petty politics peppering his pages. Damn, this beer is good. 11:00 Yeah, it is a complex system, and out tinkering is biting us back. Maybe out of time constraints, but 'eating bats'? I wish de Wall had mentioned Judy Mikovits or Kary Mullis here, and the corruption in science and academia. And Yuval has a good point, by definition, we are incapable of doing anything beyond our 'nature'. But such necessarily vague conversational terms can also be seen as a linguistic tautology. As de Waal points out, altruism is perfectly natural when you go beyond the individual level. I am glad he pointed out the social Darwinism hidden in Dawkins' solipsistic screed. If one has ever been in love, or have given unconditional love to a newborn baby, altruism is as natural as a sunrise ... an emergent phenomenon of merging the 'I' into 'us'. 28:00, Yes, I agree with de Waal about in-groups and out-groups. And I disagree with Yuval about the possibility of avoiding extremes of a zero-sum game in embracing patriotism. Appointing the most qualified person to national level positions? Somewhat naive. At the top, it's all a game of thrones ... and just enough meritocracy in the lower classes to sustain the hierarchy as long as possible. Yuval makes it clear that money, religion, sports, etc. are provisional social constructs. But I would say that 'rules' are different in degree rather than a unique quality from the games of chimpanzees. While de Waal points out chimpanzee games are not competitive, Jared Diamond points that children from small ethnic communities are shocked when suddenly placed in a 'modern' standardized public school system which emphasizes competition over collaborative games. Any 'form' of empathy is a provisional social construct. Simple or complex. But I think Yuval, in extending the definition of empathy into those larger, abstract forms, especially beyond Dunbar's number ... has stretched the word to the point of uselessness. Nationalism as a form of empathy? I don't think so. Anyone here old enough to remember that 1969 pop hit made famous by 'Three Dog Night' - 'Easy to be Hard'? Check out the lyrics. Nationalism as caring for strangers? Nope. The modern nation state is only a few hundred years old. 'Cognitive empathy' is an oxymoron. By now, the elephant in the room, for me, is linguistic relativism (the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis) ... language, logic, and mathematical models determine 'reality' as much as describes it ... like looking at the world through a screen window, but with the screen the only way to describe what we see. De Waal brushes up against this at 37:00. By about 35 minutes in, I recognized the moral implications of exceeding Dunbar's number, Freud's narcissism of small differences, and the salience of those predisposed to be high in dark-triad behavior traits - the pathological narcissists, the machiavellian opportunists, and the morphologically defined psychopaths among us. 39:00 Yes, Yuval echoes Joseph Campbell here. The lack of a unifying mythos is one thing that divides people ... and a unifying mythos is necessary in groups larger than Dunbar's number. Below that number, we don't even need written languages ... we have the cognitive capacity to identify each other and relate to each other as unique individuals. 43:00 ... De Waal points out the short-term interests of people takes precedence. I am guessing this is a temporal equivalence of Dunbar's number. 44:00 Yuval is oversimplifying 'politicians as a group as either good or bad'. There is actually some valid research showing that institutional leaders (mostly corporate) tend to be higher in dark-triad behavior traits than the bulk of any population. “10 percent of any population is cruel, no matter what, and 10 percent is merciful, no matter what, and the remaining 80 percent can be moved in either direction.” - Susan Sontag. The currently in-vogue Mass Formation Psychosis theory has it closer to 30% on both tails of a moral bell curve. But hell, even Plato talked about the weakness of democracies with the people's choice of sweet pastries over 'tough love' and harsh medicine. 45:00 ... 'Authentic' Politicians vs 'Responsible' Politicians? Hmm ... a bit naive, and mixed with the 'No True Scotsman' fallacy. But I agree with both ... specialized technocrats should not be in charge. Karl Popper, in 'The Open Society and its Enemies' tried to warn us of the implications of a technocracy with his experience of Nazi Germany. I defer back to my first paragraph in that anyone who aspires to 'responsibility' beyond Dunbar's number, and the dark-triads will eventually drive our species to self destruction. The only two points I might hedge on Frans de Waal's views is that I would not put 'empathy' on the same level of abstraction as 'reciprocity'. I don't think human morality derived from the same empathy as in some other social animals ... I think morality IS 'empathy-driven' behavior. Rule-driven behavior (customs, traditions, rules, laws, and increasingly ... algorithms). From about 50 minutes ... 'women will save the world', I don't think so. I am bit closer to Jordon Peterson and Bret and Heather (DarkHorse podcast). I have lived and taught in Japan for 39 years now, and I can assure you, those cute young things can be every bit as devious and vicious as any man. I agree that men have had the advantage of privilege for most of history ... but I would say that women have been more empathy-driven from their position of marginalization rather than gender. Similar empathy-driven values can be found in any marginalized group ... transgender/gay, ethnic-religious minorities, the disposable working poor, the handicapped, the aged, etc. But once a member of the minority group gets promoted to the 'honorary entitled' guild, those values can change and/or be revealed to be not as empathetic as presumed. A good example is the first black U.S. president ... who proved to be more of a poster boy for Wall Street than for main street ... and made the likes of Julian Assange and Ed Snowden enemies of the state. Along with the strangle hold of Big Tech on the corporate world, the nation-state has made whistle blowing against the government illegal. Although it has always been dangerous to point to the naked emperor, it is also the obligation of an informed citizenry to hold authority accountable. I am with Cornel West and Chris Hedges on this one.

[@windtalkerslai4055]

Very interesting!

[@matthewlogan4267]

Your going to need alot more beer 🍺 to listen to this bullshit

[@MelquiasAndrade]

Really great conversation.

[@LecyPereiraSousa]

Achei interessante o fundo falso do Frans de Waal

[@clairejeannette9818]

Thank you for helping me think! Two people I really admire.

[@lawrencehunter3031]

Quite an insightful conversation.

[@somdeepkundu2506]

54:24 wow... just wow such a beautiful talk... thank you prof Waal.. thank you prof Harari. ❤

[@wandatelman1677]

Dziękuję serdecznie Panu Bartosz Węglarczyk. Słucham od lat Yuvala Noah Harari, tak miło usłyszeć, że zapraszany jest do Polski. Balsam na moje serce. Jeszcze raz dziękuję.

[@GroovismOrg]

The decision to Groove, may Be our only hope!! Find your inner voice & Groove upon it!!

[@abhishekpaul9634]

You r great sir .. Practical God of 21st century

[@user-mo6yf7il8o]

I am very grateful that I can see this conversation of world-class scholars for free on KZbin. 3 years ago, I read Harari's Sapiens and became a fan of the artist (I read the Sapiens trilogy of course). Thanks to the writer, so I dream of becoming a global talent. - A Korean university student living on the other side of the world -

[@lindascanlan6317]

Yuval...you are terrific ....

[@yavuzbahadrtaktak8020]

wow, marvelous things had said: "responsibility but not authenticity"

[@TheGreen0arrow]

2 of my favourite people.

[@lindascanlan6317]

Thank you thank... you thank you...

[@FreerMasons]

From 19:00 really enjoy the match of these two in dialogue

[@razerone49]

To whoever manages Tuvalu’s social media accounts, please upload more bite-size videos rather than 1 hour long videos. In this day and age of smart phone over-stimulation, our attention spans and our busy lives often don’t permit sitting through an hour long video (however interesting it may be).

[@vullnetkrasniqi2761]

fantastic duo. Background of Frans is haliraous. please open subtitels.

[@homewall744]

The world needs experts and free speech, not leaders who impose their views on others by force and reject those who complain.

[@upsty6499]

Maybe less pain in our bodies and less suffering. We need only thee most moral people in charge of these technologies

[@i.m.gurney]

Thank you both.

[@tasyawamantassa9416]

two great minds in the 21st century!

[@lloydglyn6831]

Very interesting discussion 👍

[@guillermobrand8458]

Not only changes in genetics affect evolution. If we consider that we evolve (positively) when the action potential increases, it is true that humans are evolving without experiencing changes in our genetics, thanks to our ability to transfer information with meaning through language between our peers, and from generation to generation. in generation. In practice, today we are evolving at an exponential rate, and it is very difficult to project the "social scenario" that will exist in a few decades.

[@jakecostanza802]

The problem with identifying the facts starts when you derive prescriptions from what you believe to be the facts.

[@lindascanlan6317]

I too never fully understood the offside rule !

[@photographyandthecreativeyou]

Thanks Gents!

[@123axel123]

Paying taxes when you think your country is too leftwing is not nationalism. But Harary has a good point saying that nationalists should think positively. Actually many of them do, but they don't like foreign cultures in their own nation states. Waal's example at 35 min of one chimpanzees group split into two is very thoughtful

[@BARBARA13979]

grazie ad entrambi! è stato un dibattito interessantissimo. Il paragone con i nostri cugini scimpanzè è troppo spesso dimenticato. mi è piaciuto molto il discorso sulla libertà come impegno a lungo termine piuttosto che come diritto innato

[@aditiroy4693]

Prof. Harari’s mention of new human beings, thru techniques available now, created, need not be frightening at all. Unless we maybe allow the kind of elite stated by Noam Chomsky recently “In a country set up for and managed by an elite, law is disposable “ to decide fate & make of these new intelligent human species . Along with disposable law can ethics, moral values be added to the observation?

[@0911jedi]

Frans and Yuval, Thanks for the informative and thought-provoking videos. I am big admirer of Yuval’s work. It has cleared lots of my doubts about religion, politics, economics. In agreement of how imaginary stories have resulted in shaping Sapiens’ dominance on this planet. Unfortunately, I haven’t checked Frans’s work so far (my bad). But I am more than eager to check it out. One big doubt though or rather my thought or my understanding. When it comes to imagination, I see two class of Sapiens. 1. Creator of the story (Leaders) 2. Believer of the story (Followers). The pattern is few leaders and large number of followers. The patten may also be there in other mammals or living organs. But it also suggests that future depends on the quality of stories created by leaders or interpretation of the story by followers. The results can be good or bad. Now the confusion is that if the ratio of leader v/s follower in sapiens changes to more leaders and less followers, what can be the overall outcome? Will it stabilize / correct the disruptions created by us (may reduce the negative impact with more stories to choose from) or we once again become a normal species as few million years ago (as our collaboration, which has led to our power, will go for a toss)? For which ever outcome, if the result seems more favourable to everyone in general, what can be done?

[@user-ex2co7fb7r]

Hi, your questions are deep and require a thorough research. In my opinion, from understanding Yuval's work, he can't supply you the answer you are asked him. If I understood you properly, it's now your turn to be the leader and not the follower, to find the answer (s). Good luck, friend!

[@richardwydro6533]

Thank you very much about your eloquent analogy of being careful it’s nice to know that in heaven we can hope that the earth can obtain the same qualities for inhabitants before we get there like racing to a red light isn’t it my friends

[@lindascanlan6317]

We have the technical ability Yuval but it begs the question: ought we? Immanuel Kant is rigorously shaking his head.......

[@bradsillasen1972]

A conversation among titans!

[@chrisstory5328]

If only bankers were the best storytellers in the world. It is The Liberal story that gives unprecedented power to unscrupulous financiers. The constitution of a credit union that generously credits our best social engineers aka our best storytellers, may be our best hope.

[@ginamalkeschmiedeberg]

Amazing! Great talk! Thank you!

[@gatemifi5033]

J'avoue être aussi très heureux de pouvoir écouter gratuitement cette présentation. Quant à mes lectures des livres de M. Harari, elles sont tout aussi jouissives.

[@taranvinay]

It would be interesting to know how much work has been done by the 'intelligent, greatest' people on this planet on an empty stomach....and if they haven't, then where did their food come from...did they hunt and gather the food they have been stuffing all their lives or has someone else been growing it for them...then are we not ashamed to consider ourselves a better design of species when most of us cannot even grow, hunt or gather a single meal by ourselves...which every other species is capable of...the most basic thing for ensuring survival...what a farce we are..

[@m33LLS]

Nomadic hunter gatherers had usually plenty of food to find, forest everywhere and a lot of plants to eat, human height was reduced after agricultural revolution. In tribes, people share hunted food, it is not about me, me. Fossilized faeces showed that we ate much more fibres, probably due to eating a lot of raw plants

[@EnjoiTheSilenceToday]

Thank you so much! For this incredible space of "freedom" and inspiration and food for thought. And funny moments too "I think freedom is overrated" 😄😄 Great!

[@sravantinku1500]

Highly Thought Provoking.

[@cinikcynic3087]

An amazing meeting of great minds.

[@bartnachtuitkijker7056]

An absolutely critical point, nationalism, is debated starting 25 minutes in. Harari thinks it's a good example of large-scale empathy, De Waal suggests nationalism needs an in-group / out-group distinction. I would argue that that boundary causes gaps between people to widen and empathy to fracture at those boundaries. That would be a case of schismogenesis as described by Graeber in "The Dawn of everything". It is one on the things that keeps us from reaching worldwide understanding of the fact that we are all in the same boat, an understanding we urgently need.

[@mirjami4090]

Thank You Jesus for Your Blood. ❤❤❤

[@arlinegeorge6967]

I am lucky to learn from our world few of the greatest genius.And i see Y N Harari as telling us gospel truth. Coz in India i have been abused n tortured by the catholic nuns n priests. Just because i managed to stay ahead of all these manipulating forces I am alive but now they are abusing and torturing people related to me literally forcing me to obey them. The Indian Armed forces also joined in the assault of abuse and torture at Wellington, Staff College. Tamil Nadu where my husband retired. This manipulating forces are on for more than a decade. My desperate prayers to the divine universe to shower the same fate on all those involved specially the nuns and priests n immediately now stop the abuse n torture showered on us all. Thank you all for helping me.

[@karaioscar]

Excelente entrevista, aprendi mucho con estos científicos!

[@samerdarwiche]

Yuval talks about the founding myths of nations. So many of us have been asking him to discuss the myths of the foundation of the Jewish sate.

[@ivanryzhov7415]

Я здесь с огромным опозданием и вижу всего двести лайкс . Говорит само за себя . Мы скорее всего обречены (((

[@martinfrendo6852]

Interesting topic , freedom is tied with responsibility and dogmas are there to manipulate and have power over other primates . I still see another dimension related to the power within the self . It's unconditional and an inner journey into the self

[@Longin58]

Happiness is for idiots and freedom is overrated - I am very disappointed to hear Frans de Waal say that. Harari is, as always, clear in his statements and a pleasure to listen to.

[@homewall744]

Liberty and equal protection under the law is the story, the fiction, that all can get around that would lead to peace. Live and let live. As soon as you allow one person or group to have power over others, violence always follows. Force creates hatred. Force creates enemies. Force mocks/taunts others. Force rejects diversity. Force rejects free will. Force rejects choice. Force rejects tolerance. Force rejects peace. Politics isn't just another job. It's the one that gives power over others, allows a monopoly of violence and theft by a small group. Politics is corruption because politics is all about power, and power corrupts.

[@adleor137]

Extremely interesting, Just the last topic ‘freedom’ can’t be ‘discussed in 5 minutes. We didn’t even got to formulate it…. So this question in this context specifically in the last part of the interview to and for the two participants makes it sound less profound… really a pity. Thanks anyway for this splendid interview… Dear Yuval as much as I appreciate you, in this talk it would have been ‘nice’ to let de Waal more space, less words on your part and more room for the incredibly polite mr de Waal could make the whole even more fascinating❣️

[@lindascanlan6317]

This conversation is so wonderful....it is a privilege to hear genius engaged at the highest level...both men are having a conversation and we can listen... I don't think animals kill for pleasure....it's their quiddity to do what they must... Humans kill for pleasure....some respond sexually to cruelty...pain...blood....I'm thinking MBS....trump.....sixk.. Yuval I disagree reapectfully ....everything has telos....for example - the virus is a dead thing but has the purpose of replication....it must or it ceases to be....

[@salogg1]

I discord Mr. Yuval too when he searches for giving good meaning for words patriotism, nationalism and others for the same family. They are terrible words. along with history, they cost a huge amount of shed innocent human blood. these words represent a deep feature of the selfish nature of humans and our goal as human beings worried about a peaceful future on this earth is to move away from these malign tendencies and look for more fraternity, equality, and love to humanity.

[@gonx9906]

So equality, fraternity but not liberty :p?

[@ayeaye1363]

One can experience the real freedom when there isn't any craving, aversion or delusion in mind. No need to search for freedom, it will come to you.

[@mackeralPelog]

the storytellers (leaders) understand, create, wield power

[@koljoy]

Whenever I come across as such discussions I get amused to some extent. I never hear about human evolution, the changes in life in society, in historical or other their perspectives in relation to India or China through 1/5 of the world population belong to these two countries and for thousands of years. I have a great deal of respect for Mr. Harari. I try to follow practically everything he teaches, or preaches, or writes about. Most of the time, he makes me think. In the end in most scenarios, I end up agreeing with his ideas. But I cannot say the same about Mr. Waal. Well, I do not know him too well How about these works but definitely, he must be someone important in his field. But when he comes to defining immigration or feminism, I find him to be a part of the leftist ideology and wokeism , his thought process which is completely biased, unwanted and wrong. Every feminist movement or whatever power the women have gotten so far throughout the world has been through the support of men, or to be precise powerful group of men. I do not see anything they have achieved on their own. And even today out of all their independence and feminist ideas are still very much guided by men. Men even today decide their fate, be it their body and beauty or for their fashion, or laws to help them, or their position in society. If not without help from powerful men, they do not stand a chance. Women entered into the professional world In Europe after the second world war when there were not enough men to do all the work. It was a compulsion, not any kind of revolution by women. Then he tells us on how female leaders have responded to the covid situation in comparison to their counterparts who are male. He's citing examples only from America and Brazil. I live in a country and in a region where there are many female leaders in the past and even in the present. There was a time when this whole region 4 nations were all led by women. It did not do much good. In my country, If we take original leaders into account, men have done far better over a woman as a leader in handling covid situations. My Prime Minister is a man And he has done extremely well given to the situation of 1.3 billion of population. Europe or America, or the middle east do not make the story of humanity alone..of civilization or its evolution or its future. For example, when he talks about immigration Mr. Waal cites an example of the Mexican people coming into American land and getting jobs. The jobs that no American was doing and therefore they are not taking any of their jobs away It is completely fake logic when it comes to the situation in India where from neighboring countries people come in and take the job away on lesser wages. They're working on low wages and eventually not helping the mainland people to improve their lives. And not adjust economy alone The changing demography, the Social Structure is also paying a price because of immigrants. There is a burning example in my country where a particular state How we changed And how You fill up the land were turned into refugees in their own land 30 years back. So, Mr Waal, keep your liberal crap to yourself. Mr Harari is completely right. We are definitely moving towards a totalitarian state in the future. That will be inorganic superhumans cyber bots and whatnot. They are going to create havoc in human civilization. But okay, people who will come in the future will decide their fate and I guess they will learn to live with it. Maybe it will be a world where there will be no place for people like us. just like if someone appears from the Stone Age today will not find any place for himself.

[@dmm6341]

Preaches is the perfect word

[@aireverdemar]

You need to read more because you are reading history from a biased point of view; remember, you are from India, and your perception of reality towards women is limited. That is a fact. Remember, good historians always try to prove their own hypotheses wrong. The explanations of migration that you give are short and incorrect. The migration movement is not about jobs or waves. That is 1 factor of a much more complex issue. Mr Waal is an ethologist then of course, his ideas are personal when he refers to political issues. Remember, this is just information, not a religion more you explore deeper, and the more you go in proving yourself wrong better you get in having an open perception of facts.

[@rbanyal]

Human have great capacity to make higher level abstractions. Variety of sports, the rules of monetary transactions, judiciary, the forms of governance, the reward and punishment system - all are outcome of brains' capacity to create abstraction from mundane.

[@weverleywagstaff8319]

Beautiful conversation!! Loveit!!

[@Ryan-lo1kg]

Yuval you need to make it more clear from the on-set of most of these conversations that you aren't saying that "we should do these things," but rather that these things are going to happen.

[@richardwydro6533]

Thank you for eloquently explaining that mother Earth is irritated at her inhabitants and we need to be kind and more like the Amish more like the birds and the bees and the animals that we are we are good animals let’s be good pets to mother Earth and behave ourselves and not create anything on our own other than people and food