CrossFit the Best Method Long Term? Bodybuilders Mentally Ill? Looking Good Over Being Strong?

00:00 - Intro
01:07 - Fat *ss is Good
02:43 - America is Fat
05:20 - Crossfit is The Best
06:42 - Fitness is Mental Illness
09:53 - OHP Better Than Bench Press
10:43 - Stop Using Bands
13:07 - All About Aesthetics
14:46 - Too Much Lifting
16:27 - Don't Workout = Weak Mind
18:53 - Outro

[@blehwhatever4890]

On the topic of sex appeal vs athleticism, there are a few gifted athletes who also have sex appeal and haven't hit the mainstream yet. (I'm talking about Kyriakos Grizzly)

[@sir0nion]

My libido when I see Grizzly: FULL

[@sheadoherty7434]

I'm straight until Grizzly approaches

[@James_vs_gravity]

Oooooooooo

[@feliciacoffey6832]

Damn!!! I gotta check out this guy!

[@sheadoherty7434]

@@feliciacoffey6832 be careful. Once you've seen him no man will ever compare

[@TheNosyarg13]

Wow watching you dodge bullets on that last hot take like Neo was incredible lol. Totally agree, especially with the point about people being actively against physical training while not participating in it themselves. Because that's just textbook insecurity. Everyone knows without a shadow of a doubt that physical activity is beneficial for human beings. We won't get into the weeds about what that means exactly, but we know that it's true. If someone is denouncing physical activity, it's because they have a personal problem with it. And THOSE are the kinds of attitudes that are detrimental to society. A society, I will remind you, that we live in. We live in a society.

[@kingofthenoobs]

Obesity is linked with reduced cognitive function, plasticity and brain volumes, and altered brain structure. It literally makes you stupider.

[@uberboat4512]

Joker

[@yoeyyoey8937]

Not to mention the increase to healthcare costs

[@peterdearborn]

Lack of healthcare access is also detrimental. A bias toward individual car commuting is a factor. Making our neighborhoods less walkable, etc. All these do not help solve the problem. If we ignore movement in city planning it is to our detriment. Sure, people are lazy, but build in some steps and event lazy folks are likely better off.

[@TheNosyarg13]

@@peterdearborn I am 10,000% on board with taking down the car dependent nightmare that is north american infrastructure. I hope this is one of the things millenials actual kill because holy shit do our cities suck.

[@jacksonpoetz4799]

One of my favorite quotes of all time is from Thoreaux. The quote is “the mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.” I think that in the fitness bubble it is very easy to be blinded. We are very fitness focused, because of that it is very easy to feel slightly elitist about working out, we see the obesity and health epidemic in America and we attribute it to laziness. Most people live hard, demanding lives. They have a million concerns, they have an overwhelming amount of stress. This is compounded with the problem that cheap food is usually unhealthy food. Fitness isn’t an important issue to the masses, and while that’s terrible it seems to be a problem which is nearly impossible to fix.

[@hillweggs641]

Obviously not, or you'd know that it's 'Thoreau', not "Thoreaux".

[@jacksonpoetz4799]

@@hillweggs641 ligma I remember the quote from a class I took a year ago sorry I’m not spelling 19th century poets names right.

[@hillweggs641]

@@jacksonpoetz4799 do better. A bit of research doesn't hurt.

[@Jonathan-A.C.]

It’s very true and valid. You have to make these things very approachable and digestible to people, because it’s not as if laziness is the overwhelming concern, it’s availability, understanding, and belief in one’s self to achieve. That’s why I think things like having sports programs happening in schools are more valuable overall it’s society than the absolutely complete encyclopedia of everything to do with bench pressing. Will a book like that help people greatly? Ofc, but it only helps a small amount of people who would even really use it to begin with, and generally those people are more advanced and committed to fitness than most. What sports in school offers is a starting point to get far more people into fitness in the first place, as most people don’t need the guidebook, they need the step in the right direction

[@crashyyy4116]

Not only that, but the healthiest lifestyle is low calorie and pretty much only cardio for exercise. Eating a shit ton of meat and then putting on weight via muscle mass is technically not the healthiest thing we can do, so where do we draw the line?

[@svettysvetlana2198]

My biggest surprise when I started training Jiu Jitsu was how out of shape most of the athletes there were. The idea that technique can overcome any amount of strength is silly. Can you choke out a horse? Not likely. Why not be a horse with excellent technique?

[@buttlesschap]

i can't take martial arts training seriously from someone (of appropriate age) that barely meets beginner's strength standards. i mean how hard is it to rep a 1.0-x bodyweight squat and maintain it when you're getting paid to be involved in athletics. i noticed judo classes i went to had more fit people on average than jiu jitsu.

[@johnmclaughlin4802]

@@buttlesschap depends on age , level and ability

[@Patrick-sh9tt]

Where the hell are you training? Time to change dojo.

[@loaderlifts6839]

Zach is easily my favorite “fitness” related channel on KZbin, his combo of knowledge and well spoken ability with his comedy makes his vids so enjoyable

[@jj08274e]

I am so glad there is this not-overreacting fitness expert discussing things reasonably and casually like an actual adult. Even Zach himself claims he follows the algorithm, his contents are actually deep and unique. I feel super lucky to have weightlifting introduced by him.

[@hillweggs641]

If he was your favourite "fitness" KZbinr, you'd know his name is 'Zack', not "Zach".

[@stthomasaquarius]

I’m a calisthenics guy so I tend to favor Calisthenicsmovement, the bioneer, Al Kavadlo. But it’s always great to hear from someone whose focus and goals give them a different bias. Zach is top notch for offering me a perspective I would never encounter otherwise

[@Jonathan-A.C.]

I agree, he’s very enjoyable to just listen to to here sound points and interesting perspective. It’s because he’s so passionate about it

[@ImperialFool]

Walking would be the best long term form of exercise, 2-3 hours a day for your entire life. Its how my great grandmother lived to 98. She put in 5 k on the day she died.

[@ibfreely8952]

It's certainly a good way to not be fat too. But the more car culture dominates, the less people walk. Not to mention the pollution aspect of it.

[@wiadroman]

So, you are saying walking killed her?

[@ImperialFool]

@@wiadroman maybe, if i remember correctly she had a heart attack while walking...then walked herself to the hospital. She was "fine" but was kept for monitoring over night and died in her sleep.

[@PhiyackYuh]

@@ImperialFool i dont think its walking. Its the system stops to respond accordingly. Your body can only take so much then we all die.

[@ImperialFool]

@@PhiyackYuh i don't necessarily believe that, I think stopping is what causes you to drop dead rather than doing to much. You gotta slow down eventually but stopping all together is death.

[@frankb5728]

Good analysis as always. I think people confuse crossfit with cross training. Also if you take two equally skilled BJJ practitioner the strongest one will win. Strength is an asset

[@qwizzler]

@@CatNerfer3000 we juice for the looks too 🤣🤣

[@copeenthuisiast5453]

@@qwizzler locks*

[@steve00alt70]

Or if you take a skilled wrestler against bjj on wrestling rules.

[@stthomasaquarius]

Yeah but in practice that’s almost never the case. The training regimens favored by strength athletes take hours a week. Hours where you aren’t training. I’ve been the younger, stronger opponent and been beaten by a weaker dude with better skills. I’ve been the more proficient grappler and lost to the guy who just seemed to have a bottomless gas tank, he never ran out of steam. But I have never, in my life, lost to an opponent whose only advantage was that he was stronger. It’s just too time consuming and the trade off in missed training is too great. Calisthenics is more time efficient and favors muscle endurance which matters more in most grappling applications.

[@johnmclaughlin4802]

@@stthomasaquarius muscle heads only go 1-3 minutes because their muscles fill with lactic acid this has been proven quite often .. Randy Couture, Fedora Emileanko.. and many more with Pro boxing

[@algorerhythm2751]

13:07 Mariusz Pudzianowski basically saved strongman in the early 2000s. His aesthetic was so different, and he won, which people really wanted to see. There was other politics going on, but Mariusz being a champion and looking like a Greek God didn't hurt.

[@GutsBatman]

That's the funniest part of his run during WSM in the decade of 2000s. Is there video evidence of the IFSA shows? I say that in jest because I'm sure there is but I have never seen them in my suggestions. The lore is that they had heavier contests and a lot of his real competition did the IFSA shows and not WSM. You do bring up an interesting point about the look. Larry Wheels looks like a billion dollars but for all the training we see on his channel and collabs, it feels like he should have competed more by now. It makes me wonder if it's better to just have a channel where you look amazing but never compete than it is to have one like Shaw's or Licis.' I'm not putting Larry Wheels in the class of Brad Castleberry, but is he really that far off?

[@JohnWL]

I work in a research lab, most of my co-workers are PhD's or graduate students. There is a minority of people in that circle that don't enjoy physical activity. These people are smart, hard working, and still contribute a lot to society. I think it's super unfair to say that people that don't enjoy working out are a detriment to society. A lot of people see aspects of physical culture as intimidating, strange, and unwelcoming so they never give it a shot. This is exactly how you push people away from getting into the gym. Awful take. I think nearly everyone can enjoy some aspect of physical culture. They probably just haven't been exposed to it yet. That's why I think crossfit and strongman are super valuable. It exposes people to so many aspects of physical culture. It lets people pick their own destiny and fall in love with moving their body.

[@garywu6488]

Lol yea it's the height of arrogance to think you're better than others just because you pick some shit up and down.

[@Jonathan-A.C.]

If I recall correctly, he said the word “choice”, and meant it in the sense that if you do not choose to be physically active at all, you are a detriment to society. I don’t think that he meant that anybody who doesn’t like fitness and the fitness world is a detriment, I think he meant anybody who doesn’t choose to be physically active is. Given that, I’d say it’s absolutely correct. It doesn’t matter if you’re a fan or working out or not, just if you’re willing to do it

[@PhiyackYuh]

If you’re co workers are phd or grad students in science then not participating in any physical form is just an excuse. These people know the body inside out but refuse to not live a healthy lifestyle. It needs balance.

[@JohnWL]

​@@PhiyackYuh I am sure a good portion of people that you would consider highly successful have horribly unbalanced lifestyles. Balance is kind of the antithesis of greatness. Everyone knows working out is good for them. The goal should be making it easier for everyone to find something they can stick to. Like I said in my previous post. Physical culture/gym culture can be viewed as very strange and intimidating from the outside looking in.

[@maksun66883]

thank you! just because you don't exercise doesn't mean you aren't smart or aren't contributing to society. i think what should've been his take is "people who actively denigrate exercise are a danger to society" but even that sounds dramatic.

[@bestwesterner]

Love you bro. Your commentary is always insightful and appreciated, I’m glad to be in the bubble with you

[@JinnDante]

I am in a point of my life that the only things I look forward from youtube videos are Zack's and anything related to weightlifting afterwards.

[@JuggoJuggo]

Zach I disagree with the idea that we cannot disagree with the CDC about one thing and agree with the other. The CDC is not a monolith, it is a scientific backed agency and science should always be evaluated on a case by case basis. Blindly agreeing with a name or because they were right on something else is wrong.

[@thapelomaraisane8705]

I love this specifically because I tend to fall to the appeal to authority fallacy. That said, I think how we disagree is important. It can't just be any ol' regular Joe like me and you. I think the established science should be questioned with better science.

[@JuggoJuggo]

@@thapelomaraisane8705 It doesn't take someone special to point out hypocrisy or contradictions.

[@metalgear74]

I love the one or two movements approach to a workout. Bench and rows are a great combo, as is overheads and pullups.

[@michaelsudsysutherland5353]

Just watched this after your other video about how weighttraining was good for your mental health. I couldn't agree more that the discipline of daily training of some sort (with recovery and de-loadig, as well as not training certain days for other reasons [life happens, and doesn't care what your training goals are...] included). My sporting 'career' ended much sooner than yours, I'm one of those who enjoyed sports in high school but never was good enough to move on to college sports. I enlisted in the military instead. In a lot of ways, my journey toward physical fitness began with that goal, prior to enlisting, and only seeking to get better while i was enlisted. I appreciated how my entire life while active duty required me to maintain a certain level of fitness, with testing throughout the year, and in particular the view that 'passing' by the bare minimum was 'just getting by' and the goal was to ensure we exceeded the minimums by considerable amount. This lifestyle from 18 to my early 20's was a very critical formative foundation that fueled my efforts long after I got out of Active Duty and became a civilian. I found a great coping mechanism when faced with stress in physical training, be it body weight calestetics, running (my favorite for quite some time), or weights (kettlebell to barbell). I've only recently really gotten into barbell weight training, and was fortunate one of the first programs I followed was written by an old college track and field thrower, Matt Vincent; fortunate because he promoted Power Lifting and Olympic Weightlifthing simultaneously to achieve great results for Highland Games and Strongman. What really helped was a simple joke about a compound excercise he added to his program 'because your dreams of Bodybuilding ended 15 years and percent bodyfat ago' or some such. I needed that joke, a lot, as in my thirties I found myself starting to have body image problems compounding my seeming lack of purpose (after being a certified bad ass in the military and going to Iraq, nothing else was measuring up as a civilian). That one comment gave all that weight training I started doing greater meaning, grounding me int the reality of what I was doing with it, recreating the stress humans evolved with becoming the top of the food chain. After all "Human beings were not meant to sit in little cubicles staring at computer screens all day, filling out useless forms, and listening to eight different bosses drone on about mission statements." Thanks for doing what you do here on social media. To me, you are right up there with Matt Vincent, Pavel, Don John, and the people you hang around like Adam Thrall, Szatstrength, and so many others that promote a genuine physical culture that only seeks to improve human life and not some vane asthetic standard that is only really attainable with drugs and surgery.

[@teiwaztim1482]

Ive known abt you for, ill say, 5 years [via alan thrall n juji's channels] and been subscribed since 2020 or so. I LOVE your content! so much better than 90% of weightroom content out there, in my opinion, mainly cos its not just narcissistic lifting vids; it's news, opinions, tips n advice, love that youre natural and, like me, you are absolutely a soul-deep gym rat, and though i cant speak for everyone reading, we really appreciate what you do. cheers from southern wv.

[@kmolnardaniel]

I love your atritude man. So positive, and motivating. I never trained in my life, and started doing it two years ago. I was doing it 3 times a week, and last month I was able to push it into 4-5 weekly. But not with dread, but rather joy. I learned to love and appriciate it, even if I suck at it. But man, realising that this shit takes years, that was hard. Or at least, for me, it is years until i learn the stuff, change my life around it, my custums, my routine, even my brain, to make it able to enjoy it. So yeah, great positivity!

[@scottessery100]

18:10 sometimes choices are made such as looking after 3 disabled children who works 80 hrs a week and at 46 yrs old finds it hard to dedicate their energies to self improvement

[@bossanovamakesmegrow]

Loved a lot of stuff from you over the years Zack, love, understand and appreciate weightlifting a lot more because of your content. Your last take though, is just another kick to a lot of people who are already down. Imagine someone young who already doesn't partake in this wonderful and enriching part of life because they have grown to distrust and dislike their own physique and it's potential. They just had another damning voice added to the choir. I'm pretty sure you both mean and know better than this.

[@mrhallman64]

I have been training and coaching Shingitai Jujitsu for years and from my coach John Saylor we have trained strength, conditioning, and specific drills/skills development. All are needed and emphasized at different percentages at different phases of preparation. Being strong, conditioned, and skilled are very helpful to achieving success. Thank you for your videos.

[@comando293]

Came for hot tales, stayed for 2fort.

[@b1uezer]

On the last statement: I disagree almost entirely (almost). The sentiment that I can interpret, is choosing to better yourself when faced with the alternative of coasting through life makes you valuable as a person. That I could agree with. However, as it's stated, I wouldn't categorize someone who loathed physical activity as a detriment, or even weak. Some of the most instrumental people in human history probably didn't workout by choice, or even at all, and probably had iron convictions about what they wanted to accomplish. As much as I've come to enjoy exercise, I would never look at someone else who doesn't and assume it's because they're weak-minded. They just might simply not like exercise, or they have to do it for other reasons other than choice, and that doesn't not make them a burden on society. This completely ignores the individual experience and puts exercise on this pedestal. I would argue there can be better things to do with your time depending on what you want in life, and that you can live a fulfilling one without ever picking up a weight. The mindset of fitness is to better ourselves, not put others down.

[@PhiyackYuh]

Health is wealth. Thats been proven by science. In america theres lots of obese people and its been glorified as healthy yeh? How is that going to solve the societies problem as a whole when you do not encourage healthy behaviour? Come on now. You only need 150mins a week of moderate to vigorous activity plus 2x resistance training. Its full of bs excuse or saying healthy at any size.

[@b1uezer]

​@@PhiyackYuh I'm addressing the statement, and the statement doesn't mention obesity. It mentions people not working out by choice as being a detriment. I don't think it's valid to say. As the statement is put, someone doing 150mins a week of moderate to vigorous activity plus 2x resistance training because its required for good health, and not because they want to, is weak minded and a detriment to society. Someone who is obese and exercising to lose weight, who might hate exercise, would be weak minded and a detriment to society. A truck driver that spends days on the road delivering cargo and struggles to find time in their rigorous schedule, would be weak minded and a detriment to society. As it stands, the statement categorizes everyone that doesn't enjoy this thing that they like to do. It doesn't give enough consideration to an individuals circumstance, in which there may be different reasons or priorities to why someone may or may not be into exercising. The one way you get people to hate exercising is by telling them they're a leach on society and they suck for not exercising. Here's a novel concept: we could encourage others to see the benefits of exercise, even in small amounts, instead of taking a holier-that-thou approach and coming off like meathead asshats.

[@Hognut]

Love these long form stream of consciousness videos man. Awesome listen.

[@GunRunnersTrainingCo]

17:10 Dude my reason for getting hooked on physical training is exactly the same. I started in CrossFit and realized how bad I was at everything, except for Deadlifts and squats. After my CrossFit years, I got into powerlifting. For my own growth, I closely follow the belief that if you can't teach it, then you don't understand it enough. As I said though, for my OWN growth. I know not everyone is good at conveying info so that belief isn't absolute for everyone

[@Fuzzira]

11:50 I think Magnus Midtbos video he did with the US Marine Core is a great example of this when he grappled with one of the instructors, he has such a high level of strength that can simply overpower one in that kind of situation.

[@ngkngk875]

Keep in mind also, the stuff they teach in the military is #1 Bullshido.

[@werecat9834]

@@ngkngk875 but what if it is because of the military's shit diet? NVM situps and running are literally useless.

[@meganmadigan4561]

The Michael Phelps doc is a great shoutout- 100% a must watch for anyone in competitive sport.

[@cgoblin]

My 4 year old son and I visited my parents just outside Kentucky last month. We're from Canada. On the second day we went back to my parents after being out for a few hours when he made the observation that people in the US are "bigger" than people at home. Mind you we were at Walmart so his sample was skewed, but for him to notice gave me a good chuckle.

[@jayishikawa4150]

Sad but true

[@tripleextension88]

One thing I'd like to add regarding the last topic: I think we have to consider that there is a vast amount of people who simply didn't have any proper contact with training/sports until now: not "by choice", but rather because sports have no relevance in their personal surroundings (family, friends). I know this situation myself, coming from a family where going skiing a few times during winter already lead to being known as "super sporty" in the family. Honestly, I think there is a sport for everyone, but also: it's different for everyone. And you have to give people opportunities to find out what they actually enjoy doing. Which is harder if somebody has accepted "I don't like sports" as part of their self-perception. But I'm convinced there is a fun sport out there for everyone. We as a society have to create opportunities for people to find out what they enjoy doing, because this will lead to a healthier population overall.

[@ianAEF]

My gripe with the “mental illness/eating disorder” take is that a lot of people say that as an excuse to not drop the fucking brownies. Not every six pack is natty or not material, people!

[@zacktelander]

fair point. there is always the other side.

[@DjKryx]

How can you hear people talking about mental illness and the first thing that pops into your mind is "it is an excuse for xyz"? Even when at its highest, the amount of fake mental illness is not high enough for people to instinctively not believe. Bodybuilding, by all accounts, demands borderline addiction, just because it is not the worst addiction out there does not mean it is healthy, still.

[@Aaaronicus]

the guy who thinks 90% of healthy people have "severe eating disorders" probably thinks that counting calories is an eating disorder. gtfo

[@LuisGarcia-vi5rj]

@Nero If that's your goal, cool man, but remember that everyone has different goals and motivations. Not everyone is you

[@sir0nion]

Don't count your calories, count your PRIVILEGES!

[@perman07]

@Nero Once you've trained for a fair number of years, muscle gains are ridiculously slow. Trying to stabilize a healthy body tends to be where lifters end up. Losing that fat that you've gained is sensible for health. Having a lower fat percentage is actually healthy.

[@dermaltec7243]

Ya pretty much on point and ya Derek is doing an awesome job as well just gathering information and breaking down pharmacokinetics and activity , side effects etc we have more knowledge than ever every single minute and a lot of it comes down to learning , not training , gotta keep thinking and learning and growing and from there you will improve in all aspects of being

[@retardno002]

TF2 background, much respect, great points in the video!

[@nbekzadeh]

Loved this video. Thank you!

[@CoachAgung1]

Loved this vid. Good topics to discuss if you're in the industry

[@freakied0550]

Zack: "I'm going to offer you 25 points per game" Michael Jordan: "And I took that personally"

[@sir0nion]

Jordan sacrificed his hair for high performance.

[@allstrange7495]

This was a fun video. I like the concept and your input

[@josh39684]

I use to do bodybuilding style of training and it mentally killing me and I almost quit going to the gym. I started doing powerlifting and I'm loving it. I just wish I did it sooner. I also agree with you that the overhead press is better than the bench press

[@BigBen2314]

As someone who loves working out, and is mentally weak in a lot of other parts in life, I think throwing yourself into physical training can help with that but also become a little bandaid for your mental toughness. Like yes I’m proud that I can do what others can’t or don’t, but am I actually really bettering myself in other aspects besides the gym or using my progress there to supplement my stagnation elsewhere?

[@adamdavis3973]

There have been points in time in my life where physical training was the only time I felt normal and like myself and wanting to be alive. I'm weak as shit I could have easily fallen to other more nefarious vices. Luckily I didn't and while I wouldn't say doing nothing js a good idea, I am sure as hell not better than someone who has no will or drive to train

[@solomonstello]

Good insight!

[@LucasDimoveo]

Honest just do bodybuilding with a small amount of sports specific thing, whether it is running, hiking, or the oly lifts. I personally do a bodybuilding split with a heavy focus on the Clean and Jerk

[@justmarc2015]

Cool. I also like bodybuilding and cleaning, although I don't jerk. I press.

[@robschilke]

That outro was a delightful surprise

[@WaT3rb0y619]

Been subscribed since ‘nam!

[@garywu6488]

It's clear some of these people think way too highly of themselves just because they lift. There's a tone of arrogance and insecurity in all of the comments dissing the "gen pop" for not lifting or caring about what they deem to be the right thing. Get off your high horse just because you've gone deeper than the average person in a particular hobby.

[@nateismynametoo]

Good stuff dood thanks

[@zakshah3480]

Subscribed for the fitness rhetoric Pushed that notification bell because of TF2 theme music

[@mariusmyhre7594]

Sir, you convinced me to subscribe!

[@christopherseat9871]

EXCELLENT SESSION......♥️ we as humans are not perfect.....

[@wikitiki44]

I had some thoughts on the bodybuilding section. This is probably going to be a bit disorganized since I'm just kinda spitballing. Firstly this may be semantic but I would disagree with the implication that vanity is unique to bodybuilding and isn't found in performance sports (basketball in your example). Vanity absolutely applies to achievements and performance metrics as well as appearance. Second, I think the idea that bodybuilding is seen as more vain than other competitions is because the general population doesn't understand how to separate their physical body image with their self esteem. Then from there they think it's impossible for others to do that since they themselves are unable. Arnold used to talk about how a bodybuilder is like a sculptor working with flesh instead of clay. Is there vanity involved? Of course but so is there where a sculptor works on a piece of art. It's impossible to remove that aspect since caring about something necessitates being proud of it when it looks good and feeling the need to work on it if it looks bad. This is also the case in any performance sport. If someone cares about increasing their performance, they will do everything that needs to be done to compete at the highest level. In bodybuilding that happens to lead to more death because of the nature of the competition. I don't think this is anything that isn't found in other sports. It's just athletes doing whatever it takes to win. In the real world I think it's possible that we see slightly higher rates of mental illness in bodybuilding but not because bodybuilding causes or facilitates it. I think its rather that people that are already predisposed or have self esteem issues gravitate toward bodybuilding. When we talk about elite level athletes I could argue that the things any elite athlete puts themselves through doesn't "lead itself to health and fitness". The reason we see more deaths in bodybuilding is purely because of drug usage necessary to get to the highest level. If there was a drug in basketball that was 100% legal but would take 30 years off athletes lives, everyone in the NBA would be on it.

[@111kino]

The issue being that bodybuilding criteria are entirely subjective, which lead to the necessity of insanely high amounts of drug abuse compared to pretty much any sport. Vanity is inherent to bodybuilding because there are absolutely no performance metrics required, just ones that may or may not sway the judges. So what you're left with is the thing you can more compare on yourself and others, the body. And as no such thing as perfection exists and we all have biases on what we think is ideal in terms of anatomical structure aesthetics, it again leads to the issue of subjectivity in terms of "Me vs You" with bodybuilding competitive progression which can spiral downhill when the competitor is winning by using a lot more artificial and exogenous enhancers. This will easily take a toll on a person's mind due to the decisions they have to make to stay competitive being inherently bad for their health and likely the lingering feeling that THEY didn't attain their physique, the drugs did. On that last part, we see it time and time again with fake natties and retroactive fake natties(ones who falsify the time period they started using) to try to pretend like they have abnormally good genetics(and in a sense, work ethic). But I do agree that people predisposed to self esteem related mental issues naturally gravitate towards bodybuilding. Bodybuilding just intensifies it to a degree probably only modeling and beauty pageantry matches due to the impossibility of objectivity in a "win".

[@wikitiki44]

@@111kino I agree with a lot of this especially the idea that subjectivity makes people second guess their standings leading to mental anguish. I wouldn't say it's the subjectivity of bodybuilding that leads to drug abuse though, I think it's purely physical. The sheer amount of muscle and level of conditioning necessary to be competitive at the elite level is what causes drug abuse since the drugs are literally the only way to get there. I also agree vanity is inherent to bodybuilding but I think it's inherent to any activity one cares about doing well in. Being proud of achievements and maybe overly proud is inevitable imo.

[@111kino]

@@wikitiki44 I mean that the drugged up physique of Arnold's era and whatnot were so trumped up that it's now the norm to have to be on drugs or you're not even trying in terms of bodybuilding. From that lense, you're screwed as soon as you mentally opt in even if you didn't consciously make the decision. And the difference in vanity between bodybuilding and a performance based sport is that with performance metrics, you can always remember the feats you accomplished whereas with bodybuilding, it's about the competitions you won(which is based off winning over people). Even personal feats like being 270lbs lean mean nothing as long as the judges/crowd dont crown you, which highlights the truly subjective nature of the endeavor and I'm sure leads to lacking personal satisfaction. I even personally run into this too often at a public fitness club. Many guys want to look like other guys, but never themselves. The body dysmorphia got them being a harsher judge to themselves than they are to others and they can't see it. Many of the guys actually have decent physiques that clearly show off hard work and dedication, but as Zack said, they're so insulated in the fitness bubble that they forget what's actually normal. Add to the fact that they look at themselves in the mirror so often, they get too used to what THEY look like and that loses the charm compared to seeing other people who are in similarly good shape a few times a day at most, if that.

[@kxs7267]

You mention semantics and I wonder if that's part of the discussion here. For example, I would say you can have pride in achievements such as your basketball scores. But I would define vanity as pride *in one's appearance* so by definition there's little substance to it. And then there's the difference between pride which can be a positive force towards achievement, or a negative force when it becomes conceit. Guess what I'm saying is that we might consider the definitions of words we use and clarify whether we're all working off the same definitions.

[@wikitiki44]

@@kxs7267 Right yeah I’m just going on the definition in most dictionaries which includes achievements as well.

[@tariqo16]

These episodes keeps on getting more fun

[@rpack9815]

Totally agree on weaponized specificity. See it all too often even at the youth level.

[@thealienarms]

Love the 2fort background! I heard you slip a heavy soundbite in another one of your recent videos lol. Is heavy your favorite class?

[@shantanusapru]

Good, nuanced takes...!

[@ChuckCanada1]

Zack I just found your channel the other day through Mark Bell's channel. Dude your videos rock. You clearly know your shit and give a fuck about people other than yourself. That's not really common nowadays especially on the internet. However that is more so common when coming from a power lifting, olympic weight lifting and crossfit sort of direction. Maybe perhaps because those people are physically fit and respect themselves thus have the ability to respect others also. Anyhow just saying, keep it up.

[@chienfeu]

Interesting takes and answers

[@pillmill8987]

I love how the General population, talks like they are above the general population. Time to take a scoop of humility everybody.

[@emelie9971]

The "weak mind" statement lacks a nuanced and empathetic understanding of WHY many people are inactive. Going into it from the point of view that these "detrimental" people are not only inactive, but also staunchly AGAINST physical activity is just a silly, almost caricaturesque, way to simplify a more complicated issue.

[@maksun66883]

exactly. my first thought was "what about Stephen Hawking??" or other really smart people who don't exercise? they exist

[@leverox.]

Love the TF2 background lol

[@SuperhumanUnchained]

Great video great information

[@chrischy]

Like it, keep the Format =)

[@imitatsiya]

1:45 and then there's Grizzly, who moggs the whole planet in both sex appeal and strength

[@bmstylee]

That's because he just lives it.

[@wainach9518]

For the difficult🔥

[@johns783]

liked this video enough to post this to express that feeling. vid good. up thumb.

[@stephensattler6662]

Saying XYZ is the best long term form of exercise is incorrect no matter what anyone states that XYZ is. The best will always be what someone will actually enjoy therefore adhere to. Could an optimal 3:2:1 split of cardio:strength training:yoga be the best long term form of exercise? Theoretically yes, but would anyone actually adhere to that workout regime?

[@michaelgresham1980]

This is basically what I do now, but less cardio and more cross training

[@deficitstifflegzercherdead6221]

The best long term form of training is the form of training you’re willing to do long term.

[@NicolaiAwesome]

I would LOVE to see statistics on the difference in productivity between all types of amateur athletes. It would have to include everything from gym bro’s to soccer moms, college students to retiree’s and everything in between. And be vs the rest of the population, of course. How high or low you set the bar is the hard part but maybe by hours trained per week I guess.

[@sneeuwballa]

I have to disagree on the macho part. I remember when I used to fight the amount of bullshit people spewed to protect their ego was high as fuck. From the constant shitting on lifters and crossfitters to pseudoscientific training deemed 'functional'. Fighters are not as 'humble' as they claim to be. For a lot of them it hurts their ego to realize that while they may be good at a certain skill, they're not as good at other more general metrics of fitness. Therefore they always preferred swinging kettlebells and doing obscure bodyweight exercises over lifting because you can't lose if there's very little to compare. As for the last point it's just stupid. A fuckton of people with blue collar jobs are beneficial to society, they don't choose to workout nor do they need to. Quit acting like your daily workout sesh is making the world a better place. It is something people do for themselves, which is totally fine, however not inherently virtuous.

[@imjustsam1745]

For the algorithm, Telander you're the best.

[@AkichiDaikashima]

The Socrates quote was most likely aimed at the aging population of Athenian society as a satire of its rigidity and weakness. I think given the means through which Socrates was a devil's advocate in The Republic makes it a bit of a reach to take it as gospel. That being said, people could benefit immensely from a more sports-friendly attitude. But just doing more sports doesn't make you happier or more productive. Just look at the former soviet states. The high emphasis on sport and athleticism inherited from the soviets persists but rates of depression are incredibly high all the same, paired with an aging population. Countries which have relatively accessible sports but which also rate high on the HDI are not countries which emphasise being 'fit' but those which have a tight sense of community and promote citizen agency such as the Scandinavian countries. They tend to have fairly big cultures when it comes to stuff like Crossfit and Strongman events, but they're not necessarily as sporty as former soviet states. So really, a healthy society is not given by more people doing sports, but when more people are able to do sports (or any other hobbies), then you have a healthy society.

[@brandonmuse5532]

Great video

[@danielhunter7693]

That last one was a spicy hot take there my dude.

[@michelleharnett1351]

Fun discussion.

[@moozgit]

While not original to CrossFit, I would say that CF is the only major exercise brand/methodology that does package all those types of training for the masses. I'm guessing the original poster was saying that, if you had to choose between yoga, body building, power lifting, Oly, triathlon, climbing, pilates, etc, or CrossFit, CF is probably the best path to walk for long term overall health and physical preparedness.

[@phrsngx5675]

finally, been skipping lunch for 4 days. time to eat

[@vincentbecker7850]

Oh yes keep these up Zack

[@aidansmith266]

I’ll be very honest. I have sort of come around to the fact that most of the general population is right about lifting. Above a certain fairly low threshold, your life is not notably better if you lift more. Is my life better if I lift more? Yes, because I like it, and it makes me happy. But for the vast majority of people, they don’t need to be any stronger than they already are, their lives are fine. We’re not special because we lift, we’re not better because we lift, and the rest of the world isn’t wrong for not lifting or not optimizing their bodies completely. They don’t need to, beyond a pretty low level. For the vast majority of people, going for a walk every day or a bike ride a couple of times a week will give them a body that works and that they are happy with. They might be fat or they might not be strong, but they’re fine. I study religion for a living, and I can tell you that generally speaking it’s the in-group telling themselves they’re better, or more fit, or that their way of life is superior and the rest of the world that they are blind or ignorant of the true way of living that leads to really upsetting adverse outcomes, and also to a general level of unhappiness among those in the in-group who inevitably end up seeing the world as hopeless because the rest of the world doesn’t conform to their beliefs. There’s a level of self-awareness and self-reflection that has to be present in all things, and a recognition that other people can do things their own way and on their own terms and be equally valid as people. It’s not scary that most people don’t understand their kinetic chain, or can’t point out where their lats are, it’s normal, they don’t need to. We, as people who like to lift, just do it differently, and that’s cool for us if we’re happy with it. If someone wants to learn more, that’s cool for them, but they don’t have to, because they’re probably fine. I like your videos, and I think you generally do a really good job, but I think that in this one you sort of lost sight of the greater world being largely fine.

[@BO2Letsplay]

Incredibly well-put, goddamn.

[@St4hlz]

Except the greater (western) world is horribly overweight and filled with people who don't even do the bare minimum of physical exercise and will have greatly diminished health or outright die because of it. You are seriously underestimating the benefit of being strong both to your physical (bone health, brain health and so on) and mental health. Does that mean everyone *needs* to be a world class powerlifter? No. But it damn well means being so much stronger than most people have ever been in your life. Most people are not "probably fine".

[@arandomtenno5682]

(I might have missed something where you already pointed this out if so I'm sorry) but I would personally say everyone should at least squat or deadlift twice a week just because of how much it helps your bones long term, (of course they don't have to go crazy with it) but I feel like the whole you go down hill once you hit 40 is largely because people just don't do much and so lose what could be maintained with not a lot of effort

[@St4hlz]

@@arandomtenno5682 totally agree. It doesn't have to be squats and deadlifts, though I believe they are very valuable exercises, but strength training in general has a huge amount of health benefits.

[@arandomtenno5682]

@@St4hlz I guess I meant more strength training than specifically squat and deadlift

[@joshuasmith4979]

Ate a burrito today…. Was amazed.

[@igotaak47]

Meso cycles seem to be the best for me. Switching it up also keeps it interesting.

[@jamesventer2756]

TF2 background goes hard

[@ragir]

On the topic of people that are not active being a detriment to society (and I do understand the subtlety here), I would like to introduce a concept of mental struggle. Not mental illness, but just struggle. What I mean by that are people that are - as you said - intelligent, well meaning, caring and overall potentially the otherwise - a bonus for society, but also people that are wrestling some kind of a demon each day. The reason I say this is beause I am one of them. I really, really don't mean to brag and bare with me here. I am a 33 yo games programmer and I've got a degree in graphic design. I know how to work on cars, I can renovate a house, I'm a pretty good babysitter and overall a good person that you can depend on on basically anything you need. You need it taken care of? I will. Just today I learned how to edit typefaces because we had some problems with that at work, looks amazing. I've also been working out for the last 5+ years, very much intersted in fitness, I love the science of it - since I'm a science nut myself - love working out, even built a gym in my basement with a squat rack and some pulley systems for added fun. I'm working with what dr Mike says, Eugene Teo, Jeff Nippard, the top of the fitness YT has to offer among a lot of other - more fun - channels. As I said, this is not bragging and the reason why I don't feel like it is is the following: I'm still overweight. Not very badly, but my training didn't really touch that one at all. I know calories in/calories out, I can tell you how many calories anything I eat has. I know. I know that full plate was a bad idea when I was filling it up. I knew ordering KFC was a bad idea when I was doing it. I't s not logic, it's not common sense, it's not reason, it's mental. I still overeat, I still don't do enough cardio, I still struggle - and while some might tell me it's my choice (and it kinda is from a cerain point of view) - I really don't fell like it's a choice, I really feel like it's somehow forced on me - and it always has been. Now, since it's CLEARLY a mental problem for me. I've been on axiety meds for the last 3.5 years and in therapy for the last 1.5 years. And while (because I was a machine in my early years) I now make good money and I'm totally ok with paying for those, I am seeing more clearly, I am getting better, I am seeing the damage my "choices" do to me a lot clearer. The problem here is that most people don't. And why? Who knows, they just don't see it! For me, it's a combination of a lifelong desire to be the best and an alcoholic father that left me at 3yo. And then came back and left again at 5yo. And again and again. Reinforcing in my 8yo brain the idea that I must've done somethign wrong for him to leave me, so now I have to be perfect, otherwise *everyone* will leave me. Sounds stupid at 33, but at 8 it makes total sense and my brain just grew up with that one in it. And I was perfect for like 25 years, but then it broke. And the only reason I know about this is because I can afford therapy. It's really, really expensive to go to therapy, head meds are expensive as well. And if someone in my position - a very, very priviledged one - still struggles with fitness... All I can say is that it's never easy and it's actually not always a choice. Sometimes we just don't really know what's happening to us and we make decisions based on anything that makes sense - and I know I did. And saying people like me are just a detriment to society - I really don't think am. And I take 0 offence, I actually totally understand why someone that doesn't feel like me would say so, I really do. But I have to say: some of us just don't know why we're harming ourselves. That last one was for a nice full circle, no negative feelings, just some perspective ^^

[@ragir]

And if you don't struggle like me? I'm actually really, really happy for you, I really am - I don't wish anyone to have to go through what I am going through - go be the best you you can, just be aware that some people are different and maybe don't think the way you do, that's all. Noone is worse or better here, we're just different ^^

[@hamm0155]

As someone with a phd in philosophy who sees Very few academics know or understand or care about physical training, I found Zack’s line at the end about “I’m sure there are probably intelligent people who don’t …” very amusing. Socrates would be disappointed in so many. Love you Zack!

[@jj08274e]

I am not sure if thats a country specific thing, been staying in couple countries in Europe in academic setting and I found non-physically active academics being the minority. It's true not that many understand hardcore "physical training" in the optimized form (weight training, conditioning etc), but most do workout or sport as a hobby/habit

[@hamm0155]

@@jj08274e yeah maybe you’re right that it’s region specific, especially if you include hiking and recreational cycling and similar activities

[@reubenfevreau3315]

hey man love your content, ive only just started switching over to weightlifting and ive already injured mr wrist heaps, do you have any mobility advice im struggling with my squat (dorseflexion) and can bearly get into an overhead squat position i aslo would love advice on wrist strengthening and front rack position , thanks.

[@matthewleblanc2451]

Subbed bro legit good on ya haha didn't even notice I wasn't subbed 😂

[@scottv6726]

That last item on not training = weak mind was a good one. Reminds me of "put on your own mask before assisting other passengers", "pull the beam from your own eye before helping pull the speck from your neighbor's eye", etc. etc. Socrates quote was awesome.

[@pedroferreira5879]

I m Brazil and Brazil loves u.

[@NicolaiAwesome]

Zack good make clip. Me watch and like.

[@nafisazim6101]

Aight bro i'll subscribe

[@hippie_4762]

For their overall fitness Crossfit is probably the best thing people can start doing. I just wish it was as obsessed with technique and form as it is with coughing up blood.

[@jordanmoffitt102]

Spot on

[@JaredisSword]

Spot on with the principled take on the CDC.

[@alexanderadcock4962]

I think people who aren’t physically active and judges other for being physically active are a cancer. It’s acceptable for someone to not be physically active but, don’t push your own insecurities onto someone else. I think there’s a very strong toxic trait with the gen pop fitness people always judging someone else based on look or lifts. We should be happy someone is there and putting in the work and be more open to helping others when they don’t know. Great video as always

[@sir0nion]

13:45 "Most of GenPop are passive, foam finger, home team rooting slugs" - Tellie

[@GutsBatman]

Speaking as a guy who just lifts to get stronger without any supplementation or any desire to compete currently, the body dysmorphia (sp?) is something I feel. I'm 6 foot and have weighed 280-285 for the last 2-3 years, which is down from 305 in Agust of 2020. I don't have a proper grasp of how big I am or feel. I strength train in the vain of powerlifting more than anything with a day of hypertrophy throw in for muscular development 5 days a week. I am highly disciplined in doing it. It is the way I have chosen to spend my non-work time. I can see why people who aren't as disciplined or don't view discipline as important as I do would see competitive discipline discipline is everything, motivation is nothing) as a mental illness. I will never see it that way. I don't believe in being a jack of all trades. Maybe 'm the fucked up one. If that's the case, then I will happily be the fucked up one.

[@richardpeterson4440]

Hot take? Most people deserve their aches and pains. A moderate amount of exercise and occasional rehab movements would see most people pain free and would reduce the pain in everybody.

[@jamesmichael7448]

I think saying they “deserve” aches and pains is a quite harsh. We all have our strengths and weaknesses as people. Just because someone is less informed or consistent then you when it comes to fitness/lifting doesn’t mean they deserve pain. I’m sure there are things in your life that one might say you “deserve”. Have some compassion.

[@infinity5071]

TF2 nostalgia got me

[@todo9633]

As someone living in a country with universal healthcare, people who do not exercise and stay fit/healthy literally are detrimental to our society. They take our tax money when their obesity and other health issues mean they need medical treatment or specialized care. Some even live off welfare because of it. Even in America it's somewhat of a problem. So yes, I'm in favor of a legal solution to the issue like in Japan, personally.

[@madcow158]

That beautiful Team Fortress 2 background tho

[@ryanshigley7595]

fine, i’ll subscribe. stop yelling at us bro 😎

[@joecarusone3514]

The people who don't sub to Zack are plebs. How could you not be subbed to this quality content!?

[@guykershtein4931]

I think swimming is one of the best forms of exercises long term. Also rowing.

[@OGfromGst]

More like this Zack

[@ZevAidikoff]

I replaced BP with OHP and it’s been great.

[@MineGamesMandG]

Zack. Why are you on 2fort? Specifically on the BLU side?

[@d3grap]

Regarding bes tlong term training: you just described kettlebells (hard style mostly)

[@randychapman7322]

Just here for the algorithm 🤘