Your Patient Killed Themselves (Or Someone Else)...Now What? | Against Medical Advice 012

[@whitiscool1]

your mother is a saint

[@whitiscool1]

and incredibly intelligent and insightful

[@AlliWritesNow]

Wow, your Mother is very sincere & relatable. It’s not often that you find such a warm, tolerant & compassionate Psychiatrist as well as dedicated Mother. She’s absolutely brilliant and charming.

[@terrylcoffel6797]

As a psych nurse who got kicked at, spit on and called horrible names yesterday at work, coming home exhausted, thank you so much for reminding me why I do the job I do. It's so easy to get disheartened by patients that wear us out, but it's important to remember why we do the job we do. ♡

[@BrittyBrie1124]

psych nurse here. the psych life choose me I didn't choose it. I thought I was just going to get my foot in the door. I realized my heart is with psych the moment I had a patient look me straight in the eyes and tell me I was the reason they found some hope. There are bad days more often than not but I wouldn't change a thing. Now I've decided to take the leap and become a PMHNP!

[@shivanibhatt4619]

Goodness! Thank you both for sharing this- it resonates (rotated in community psych and forensic psych) but also in primary care. I'm sure you know you're very lucky to have ZMom- thanks for sharing her wisdom!

[@Laudanum-gq3bl]

New Z-Pak member here. Been watching this long weekend. I can see where you get your ability to practice disinterested compassion. Your mom is amazing.

[@AngS22]

ZMom is a wonderful person. I honestly love how compassionate she is. She even shows her feelings with body language. I’m a nurse, but not a psych nurse...I work as a community care manager. I try to connect complicated patients with every resource possible in both the medical field and the community. So, so, so many of my patients have psychiatric illness that is often times under treated. It’s also sometimes under treated because of the patient’s choice. However, when you read about a patient that you’ve worked so hard to help doing something horrible to someone else, or themselves it’s really very difficult.

[@martha-lisaflinsch4354]

I am so happy that your are talking about mental health and stigma! I was listing to your mother's story about the patient who killed his wife with a sledge hammer. I don't know if it's the same story or another very similar one but that happened in our town many years ago. The younger daughter was in the same classroom as my son at the time. My son had a one on one aid because he had been suicidal and hospitalized in third grade. The school did very little for the mental health of the children and the trauma that this caused the daughters and all the children they went to school with. My son became suicidal again after interacting with the very traumatized but untreated younger daughter in his classroom. He was unable to attend school, but was finally placed in a therapeutic school. To make a long story short. He grew up and has a full time job and is very stable now. But I wanted to post this because of mental health awareness and how the effect of suicide or murder in a community ripples and ripples. Thanks for sharing this! Talking about these things should decrease stigma, I hope.

[@FreedomToRoam86]

ZMomm is awesome, and I love hearing another physician not apologizing for long detailed notes! Best ending ever!

[@jasz2200]

"Bless your heart" with an Indian accent. So endearing.

[@naynerboppers5254]

You have such wonderful parents....and it shows within the work, info, and energy that you put out into the world.

[@sherrym893]

Wonderful discussion! ZMom is great. Very open and honest talk.

[@annaj6545]

ZMommMD is a wonderful individual. Her wise, gentle, and compassionate persona gives me hope for the field of psychiatry. I think we're talking more about mental illness which is great, and I think more common, treatment-responsive, and less disruptive conditions are less stigmatized. However, I have to agree with Tom -- I'm not sure the overall stigma against psychiatric conditions and treatment is getting better, at least within my lifetime. Mental illness is still widely misunderstood, especially within the medical community, sadly. As an RN, I've found it extremely difficult to care for patients who are on a medical floor but experiencing acute psychiatric issues, even when psych has been consulted. We're ill equipped to manage their needs, including both physical resources like patient sitters/companions and educational resources for patient care staff. Additionally, I'm not sure medical treatment for mental illness has made much progress in the past few decades, which is a huge issue in itself. We have more psych meds, many with fewer side effects than previous generations, and many with unique mechanisms of action, but are they actually more effective? (It's worth noting that my "elephant" is spending the last 13 years dealing with treatment-resistant depression and an eating disorder [the latter is now managed, but EDs in general are notoriously treatment-resistent and accompany other treatment-resistent conditions and it's pretty much a shit show]. I'm, thankfully, high functioning and most have no idea I have a drawn out psych history, take an embarrassing number of meds to help minimize maladaptive behaviors, and took medical leave from work to have ECT [which, BTW, was absolutely worth it]. And as an added bonus, my experience probably has a strong genetic component, as my dad has had a very similar experience with depression. I've never not known him to be depressed, despite owning his own successful veterinary practice, etc. It's fun parenting your parent as a teenager because few people know how bad things are behind closed doors, ya know?) ANYWAY. We still have a long way to go regarding psychiatric illness.And ZMomm is great. We need more conversations like these.

[@carolineevans7062]

Thanks zmomm, it is fantastic to hear your views, please keep doing it I am learning so much, I love your compassion.

[@CamMcB]

Stigma is certainly still present. Interestingly enough, I worked in Minnesota, and was prescribed cyclobenzaprine in Minnesota, without that state caring,. Then I returned to my home state of Michigan, transferred the script back to Walmarts locally, and the state of Michigan required verification from my doctor that I was qualified to work as a nurse practitioner under the influence of this medication, and or drive under the influence of this medication. All of this taking it once at bedtime. It was easier to stop the medication. I don't know if they followed up on all persons this way or if it was just licensed professionals.

[@jennkindle]

I'm loving this episode. It may be from 2017 but it's new to me

[@MayonnaiseJane]

Two years ago I had it out with HR over our version of the "do you have any illness...." questions NOT saying "that would affect your ability to do your job" and a question that asked "all medications you are taking," with no exceptions. Dude no. I am not answering that. I work at a hospital, yeah, but you don't need an itemized list of my issues and meds. I have my shit under control and if I don't I will go home. Illegal and invasive questions. They changed the form. I can't believe no one else ever objected!

[@karfos6764]

Your Mother is beautiful!!

[@jennyli7749]

Incredibly important topic and thank you for such wonderful information and thoughts. Zmomm you are absolutely Badass! ❤️❤️❤️

[@sainteustatious]

This woman is so wonderful and pleasant. You truly have a great mother. Also, on why the woman were more aggressive with your mom. Maybe it is because they felt powerless especially with men during the time and felt they had some sort of power or even footing since your mother is woman and in their same boat in relation to men, again of the time. Just an idea almost how some stay-at-home moms can be assholes in grocery stores or other places where they feel power over another person.

[@karlachildofgod777]

Zmom is so smart , tender hearted, and did well raising you ZdoggMD

[@Sam-zy4tf]

such a sweet, intelligent mother!

[@vikithomasson7772]

Absolutely excellent program! Ty ZMom!

[@jessicaalexander2019]

This was so good to watch, I had a hard day at work. Thank you sooo much!!!

[@marielang9552]

To spite our committed efforts, some people don't recover. You can't blame yourself. God bless!

[@brasschick4214]

Brilliant program 😊 I moved from Pathology to Psych too. It is a calling but the paperwork is a burden if you are a perfectionist. Gut instinct- About 500 million neurons, using the same neurotransmitters as the brain and connected to the brain. It makes sense to factor it in your judgment process but with an eye to your own anxieties. So many points of resonance- thank you 😊

[@karenabrams8986]

My great grandfather shot himself in the head and it severely impacted my grandmother and my dad who basically lost his mom to grief and alcoholism at 6 years old. He became alcoholic and my sister’s and my own childhood was impacted. Three generations screwed up by what he did. I discovered this when searching up death records. His didn’t make sense. My grandma said the ppl that showed up at the home where he did it said never talk about it.

[@xionmemoria5939]

Many times, people who have made the choice to kill themselves, seriously, cannot be stopped. One of the most intelligent people I have ever met committed suicide. He arranged his affairs silently, but someone close to him (and me) noticed. She tried to get him help. He had a mental evaluation and said all the right things. When he was released, his friend went to his house before he got there and stole his small collection of old pistols. She thought she'd saved him by taking his guns away. Within 24 hours he'd stepped in front of a train. It was not her fault, it was not the psychiatrists' fault. It was that the patient had decided to take their life. Not every person can be stopped, but that doesn't mean that it isn't great and very brave to try to save those who can be persuaded.

[@Sisterlisk]

Gah.. videos like these force me to think about my depression. But it's good.

[@kankerdoodleb9149]

Dr Z mom is amazing...

[@TheMabes69]

I must say, Z-Mom and Z-Dad are impressive folks. You are a lucky fellow :)

[@sbh0007]

Imagine stigma within medical professionals !

[@Kdub09swm]

Your mother reminds me of my own so much, she is a physician assistant. I was having major problems with depression and suicide, it was a very difficult time. Funny enough my dad is a doctor but I never told him about these things. I think you have to be a some what of an optimistic person to work in the field your mother is in, or at least have a way to look at the world in a humorous way.

[@thegingerunicorn178]

His song lyrics screamed “HELP MEEE” for YEARS

[@nrgbunni.]

Your mum is hilarious “am I going to get in trouble?”

[@chrisperry7538]

I was talking to a doctor friend of mine watching a person walk by obviously heavily medicated...their arms did not swing...dude, is that what they call the Thorazine shuffle?...Na bro that is haldol. Your mother is a saint & like you, I chalk up the deaths to disease. I have buried a number of my friends & the saddest thing is the family of those I have buried...the mixed anger and relief ...often with a statement of “at least it is over”...

[@alanamarshall8137]

I am enjoying this video so much. your mom is beautiful and smart.

[@A2Zdogmd]

Z, your mom is a beautiful soul ❤

[@kathleendsmith2343]

Great Episode!

[@kellymonck8178]

I've been in quite a few psych hospitals (or psych unit in a hospital). Even when on a 51/50 or 52/50, I've been asked to sign a special permission lip for any psych meds being administered (even if the med is not being used to treat psychiatric illness). I don't know what happens if you refuse to sign it, unlike refusing to actually take prescribed medications.

[@officialclownbusiness7788]

Kelly Monck I'm sorry to hear that. Those places and the meds are the entire reason I was ever suicidal to begin with. My school literally taught me what suicide was by claiming that I was a jumper after a Wile E. Coyote reference in second or third grade, almost knocked me off the ledge themselves, and sent me to Pembroke Hospital, who proceeded to beat me to the point of three bruised ribs before my parents were even done touring the place. From there, it was a twenty year perpetual cycle of agony, pills, headgames, special schools, abusive psych wards, and doctors killing my father and leaving me with a mother who somehow both wrongfully believed all this shit helped me, but also used it as her favorite threat/punishment/form of abuse. Even the pills by themselves say right on their own advertising and packaging that they are known to cause suicide, and the only way to ever get me to attempt it again is to put me back in treatment, whether inpatient or outpatient.

[@sophiechang6118]

Please ask your children if they have heard of, read or watched 13 Reasons Why, and if they have, watch this with them and discuss.

[@rachelcovington59]

I love your mother she is so informative

[@spaight711]

It's getting better, but it's a long road and we have a long way to go still.

[@sadem1045]

If we fix the way mentally ill people are treated in the emergency room and psychiatric hospitals more of us will be honest about how we're feeling. So many people who have survived or witnessed emotional/physical/sexual abuse and/or negligence (as I have multiple times) feel suicide is definitely preferable over "treatment." I personally feel I will never be safe in an emergency room or psychiatric hospital because of what I have experienced and witnessed. Thankfully, I am emotionally stable but what's terrifying is I never know what tomorrow will bring (tis the life of a person living with mental illness).

[@marielang9552]

I think its getting better but there is still misunderstanding.

[@rubyamm]

ZMom is absolutely adorable!

[@marielang9552]

What a lovely momm!

[@georgezagger487]

Fantastic!

[@stephaniefinch-gutierrez2641]

Beautiful momma!❤️

[@GenXersJustWalkItOff]

ZMom is da bomb! 😁

[@deborahtschopp4337]

I agree with the psych female patient and I'm a female nurse in the ER where we deal with ETOH, Substance abuse psych and it seemed the female always went for the female nurses. I was punched. My arm caught in doorway and slapped several times. I filed charges each time and when the patient was told they were apologetic and was asked by the patient not to press charges. I told them no that maybe they could use it as a learning experience and not assault anyone else and the patient would start crying and try manipulating my decision.

[@ashleyashleym2969]

I think the stigma is pretty much non existent now, if never experienced a stigma against it and I have mental illness and I talk openly about it. I have trichotillomania and people don't really understand it even those who understand mental illness, but everyone has concern when I tell them. Trichotillomania is an incredibly minor mental illness to the point where I don't consider it a mental illness but it is in the DSM, so technically it is. I've heard people talk about depression and anxiety, I also have bad health anxiety and the only people I get backlash for having health anxiety are really cold (maybe they're burnt out) nurses or doctors. Everyone may not necessarily understand but they don't push me down for it and blame me for it. My grandmother had bipolar when she was alive and I've never seen or heard anyone talk badly about them. There is a stigma against suicide but I think that's a good thing and we need to keep it. I think the stigma stops people from doing it, because failing a suicide attempt is possible and you will get backlash if you fail, not because you failed but you attempted. And I think less people attempting to commit suicide is a good thing. I know I thought about it and I planned it but I never actually attempted it because of the stigma. I;m not suicidal anymore, I was a teenager when I had these thoughts, it's amazing how an underdeveloped brain can cause mental illness symptoms.

[@kimjohnson8471]

Can ZMom come out of retirement and be ONLY my doctor?

[@helius2011]

Your mum is awesome.

[@clarissapacker1537]

How many kids killed themselves because they we're being bullied & staff at the school did nothing but the punish the victims for fighting back. It was that way when I grew up at kelloggsville in the 80's & 90's. I was that bullied victim. The bullying I received back then still affects me to some degree this day. I don't know how to properly socialise or bond with any one because my bullying was that bad.

[@cprauss7254]

really good one.

[@43nostromo]

Before I leaped I should’ve seen the view from halfway down I really should’ve thought about the view from halfway down I wish I could’ve known about the view from halfway down

[@joyceneville3655]

Great show, Please work on the reflection in ZMom's glasses, it was distracting and took away from your normally excellent production!

[@scottredlin1158]

ZDogg, allow me to twist this a bit and address heakrh care workers who have mental illness? PTSD, emotional distress from high stress jobs, depression are some of the common mental illnesses health care workers suffer. We then have to disclose our dx on our licensure renewal. We then go through peer assistance programs, to determine our mental fitness and competency. Etc..... by then the cat is out of the bag, the stigma is in place, the shunning begins, and you seek employment elsewhere and hope they dont find out.

[@robinh5169]

Your mother is wonderful. I think there is more violence now in psych units because of the drug epidemic which include things like crystal meth, bath salts, synthetic marijuana . Patients come to the unit like wild animals and sometimes it last for a couple of days.

[@trilabradorable]

Do any providers miss medical transcriptionists?

[@Laow.s]

I loved this

[@lakelady819]

Hi Z mom!

[@jenniferberry120785]

That is a blue paper here in Maine.

[@kimberlycooper4170]

Remember 2-1-1 or go to www.211.org . It's good throughout the USA and in parts of Canada. If you or someone else has any kind of problem and does not know how to solve the problem, have the person call the phone number 2-1-1. If the person's phone doesn't allow using 2-1-1, go to www.211.org to get your area's 10-digit number. Counseling, roof repairs, food, legal advice, and many more services are available. When people have somewhere to get help, it can stop them from doing desperate things. Non-profit organizations sign up with 2-1-1 to provide help to callers. Individuals donate time, money, and/or special skills to help callers.

[@STEVYN_W-A-Y]

Thank you!! This is so important to me and I will share this for "suicide prevention".. I think everyone should watch this!! God bless

[@ashleyashleym2969]

Why are psychiatrist being punished for people killing themselves? Psychiatrist can't always stop that, it's going to happen and we shouldn't blame them unless there was something they could have done very easily and knew they could and decided not to because they don't care about the patient. Most psychiatrist are very nice people and any suicide happening under their watch is typically a human error or something beyond their control.

[@ashleybell8287]

Ashley ASHLEYM I agree with what you’ve said in both these comments. I have a question though? You said that you had gone as far as to even plan out your suicide but stigma is big part of what stopped you from acting. So my question is that if stigma wasn’t something that stopped you, would seeing an interview like this and finding out how much it destroys your shrinks could that been something that could have stopped you?

[@deannac5026]

What does all American, mean?

[@joemoment-o1275]

In my state we can ask doctors to help kill us. That is the most chilling documentary when you see someone drink a cup of liquid, eat a chocolate, then no joke, they're gone. Like dead. It's weird.

[@clerickolter]

Ever think people kill themselves for a reason under treated pain, loss of quality of life or other conditions my doctors know under some conditions I will end my life severe pain not likely to be treated well enough, if I go blind, have a severe stroke and the like. Often I would just refuse food and water as my plan but active suicide is possible but its not a choice I want to make and work with my doctors but as a Medicaid patient if I lose that I lose my pain care and would likely at that point just decide to end it all after my backup supplies run out. But what will they do force feed me or lock me up in a psych ward forever I mean in care I would get my pain medications but after that and they release me I would still end my life and be clear that is the case without being on SSI and Medicaid first.

[@marielang9552]

Zdogg, our poor are fat in America!

[@jasmineevans4846]

wow wow wow wow wow

[@naseerahvj]

Stigma not getting better, its easier to get a dx now, but the stigma is still bad. Also getting treatment for non psych issues when you have a psych dx in books.

[@knowyourkismat]

Your mom is amazing... I do wish you didn’t imitate your dad in that accent... I feel it does a disservice to him and even if you don’t mean it in a disrespectful way (obviously you don’t), I feel like other ppl feel like it gives them a pass to do the same, and they could be doing it in a disrespectful way , but to them it’s ok because they say “well he does it so why can’t I” ..

[@katybrennan8222]

I believe a person has the right to end his/her own life. I'm not encouraging suicide in any way, mind you! But as long as the person is NOT harming others, the person should have the choice, and right to commit suicide. Personally, I would try to help to talk the person out of it but I'd be careful about seeking help. Once the person gets taken, his/her civil rights are taken away and the person is treated like crap! I've known it to happen to kin and a friend who went for help and was treated horribly! I don't blame him for committing suicide a few months after being released. I say again I don't want to encourage someone to do it but until we do better and treat better our mentally ill, I would rather talk them out of it than seeking help.

[@trinitylivingston1286]

If you do that, than I'd be dead by now..