Zenith ZF5-P VS HK SP5 K

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Comparing the H&K premium SP5K pistol to a cheaper Zenith ZF5-P.
Is the $3,000 German pistol worth the cost vs the $1,200 American made Zenith clone? Do you get a better fit and finish? Is the H&K superior for welds?
Spoiler alert; I will probably be sending the Zenith back for warranty work, due to I think is a small issue, but never should have passed a quality control inspection.
To be fair, H&K comes with a nice carry case, a 1 point sling, 2 magazines, and a sight tool. Zenith comes with a cheaper carry bag and 1 magazine. But is that a $1,800 difference?
Video edited to fit my 15 minute time limit, as I have less than 1,000 subscribers. Should I do shorter videos and break it up?

[@001alien.]

How beautiful they are. These two handguns are really beautiful. I thank myself and KZbin for giving me this opportunity.

[@CAVCOP]

They are nice and like a classic car, an old design that stands the test of time.

[@2KCamaroZ28SS]

* PDW, not handgun. I don't care what the legal term for it is. Let's be proper about it. Lol

[@shakin_jakewilson5247]

Hey CAVCOP!, just watched your videos & read all of the comments/replies. First let me say, I like the fact you tell it like it is, something not readily apparent on other channels. Secondly, not that you asked but, I bought an MKE AP5P not quite a month ago and got a bit of a lemon. The problem with mine (so far) is the magazines (I bought 2 extra mags) will not lock into the magwell, none of them. I found this out after loading one of the mags and attempting to fire it. Not to be deterred, I used upward pressure to force the mag so the bolt would catch a round and fire. I was able to fire it this way 5 or 6 rounds (115 grain). I was totally surprised that an importer (Century) would send a gun like this to a retailer to sell to the public. I say this after finding out from someone well acquainted with MKE that they do not have quality control, they just build the guns and send them out. Anywho, i saw where you mentioned doing a review of the MKE you purchased, I’ll look for & watch it

[@CAVCOP]

I still have to take my Zenith and Century MKE to the range. I was disappointed with the MKE fit/finish. Clearly they a mass produced cheaply in Turkey. I liked the over build quality of the Zenith. MKE used be imported by Zenith and had a so-so reputation, so I had hoped Zenith maybe knew what they were doing and MKS worked their bugs out. I do understand that most clone H&K’s tend to have issues with the magazine well and magazine catch (which my MKE has a so-so magazine catch). They are neat firearms for roller delay and historical reasons to me. The manual of arms is not for everyone, as the bolt needs to be charged and locked to load, and there is no last round bolt catch hold open. MKE I don’t think has any real quality control. Do you have the bolt locked back, angle the top of the magazine backwards as you load it, and then pull the bottom of the magazine backward towards you? Some of the MP5’s we used at my old job had magazine play, but there is a limit to how much play they should have. Your issue might be the magazine catch as they have a few designs over the years and not all match up well or are cut right on clones. Hope you get yours up and running. They can need break in shooting, and the extractors can need replacing.

[@shakin_jakewilson5247]

@@CAVCOPcan’t answer your questions as I sent mine to a shop to rectify the mag issue. Shop owner will look over the rest of the gun to see if there are any other issues. That said, something else I noticed that doesn’t feel right is the bolt spring is overly stiff, to the extent I had to apply enormous force to open/lock the bolt

[@tsim4139]

I have the HK SP5 and I have never had one jam or issue. 60 plus years of service for a reason.

[@CAVCOP]

My SP5K has been great. I was going to get the MKE as range toy, but the Zenith was on sale and the same price, along with being made in the USA, so I went with it. Still plan to get the MKE, but like the finish and features of the Zenith. Sent it back for repairs, like many it seems. But the Zenith and MKE are priced competitively. An HK or Dakota Tactical is twice the price. If the Zenith gets fixed, I will be happy. If not, I know a guy that builds HK’s and will have him fix it. I don’t know why, but I like buying clones to my original’s. Most have been for training/range use. Not the Zenith so far though.

[@tsim4139]

@@CAVCOP I really thought about buying Zenith, but I want to get the original version because of HK quality.

[@CAVCOP]

@@tsim4139I always try to get the original first. I like having duplicate firearms, and extra mags.

[@artlessdiamondmedia]

8 months later. Did you get any replacement or just left zenith alone?

[@justdone1251]

Thanks for a great review.

[@CAVCOP]

Thanks for checking it out.

[@mavrikmavrik3032]

Doesn’t sound like the Zenith is doing well in your experience or the comments section. I recently bought the SP5 and have had no issues running it over several range trips. Honestly for as much as I’ve modded the pistol I would rather have purchased a clone but…mine works so I guess that’s something.

[@CAVCOP]

They seem to have some growing issue as a new company with some Quality Control. But the Century MKE I got is much worse. I think for the money, the USA Zenith is a good value for the fit and finish of 99% of it. The magwell was my only real issue, that I knew would have issues before I shot it. Did a video on the Zenith return, and the MKE. Not a fan of the MKE for fit/finish.

[@MaryJane-bi6et]

The way MP5's are made you need to break it in. The jamming is most likely the metal grooves and welds are tight from manufacturing, that is normal.

[@CAVCOP]

Yes, many older design firearms need a breaking in of a few hundred rounds. In this case it was a loose/out of spec magazine well. It’s common with the clones. I had hopped Zenith and even MKE Turkey would have a fix to the issue, but it seems many still ship, out of spec.

[@caseysmith8831]

Very cool. I ve been wondering what a side by side comparison would be. Can you or did you show the amount of mag wobble in the Hk?

[@CAVCOP]

It was a bit, and I might to a warning video for my small channel on Zenith. I have some videos and emails I was going to hold off on posting, and see their fix, but a number of people have said they have had issues too.

[@TheFaceofRebellion]

I've got a Zenith coming from Atlantic, if they ever decide to ship it. I was a little sketched about buying a Zenith becausethere'snot as much info out there on the newer U.S made guns, but they where on sale and Century is on my blacklist so the MKE was not an option, and I don't have HK money. I really appreciate this side by side comparison. Please keep us posted on the customer service/warranty quality.

[@CAVCOP]

I got mine through Atlantic. Ordered it Thanksgiving night got it a few days later at my FFL. Less than a week, maybe 5 days. A few other people have told me they too had issues with the magazine fit and were still waiting to get them back, with a 3-4 week repair time quoted. Mine has the 2 piece magazine catch, the newer style is one piece. The fit/finish on my mag catch is crappy. HK parts sells them for $15 but out of stock. $55 for an actual HK one. Zenith does sell the catch for $15 too. While I could swap it, I do want to send it back so they can fix it and hopefully do better checks/QC on their stuff they sell. When you get it, test it out and see if the catch scratches a a bit off the magazine and if there is a lot of play front to back on the bottom of the magazine. Some is ok, but not a lot. Then shoot it in the first few weeks. All MP5 platforms can need a 200 plus round break in, but if you get failures to feed over and over, that’s an issue Zenith needs to fix. I am still waiting to hear back from Zenith as I tried to email them this weekend but had issues sending video attachments. I will do an update video, but it could be months later…

[@TheFaceofRebellion]

@CAVCOP I appreciate the info. This is my 2nd purchase with Atlantic, and I swear on my life it is the last. I bought a bula some years back that made 3 trips back for warranty work and they eventually replaced the whole rifle. I didn't involve Atlantic, but I did tell them about it when I ordered the Zenith and asked them to check the gun for defects before shipping. Their reply was "the guns are inspected at the manufacturer." And I paid for it on December 29, still not shipped. A 4 week turnaround is a bit excessive. If mine ain't right and a $15 part will fix it, that might be hard to pass up. I'd normally make them warranty it on principle alone, but I'm pretty much over sending guns back for repair. Once again, I appreciate the video and also you taking the time to read/respond to my comment.

[@CAVCOP]

@@TheFaceofRebellion Hope things work out well for you. Post back your results. I am into firearms and outside of Colt, don’t have a brand loyalty and just like deigns and functionality. The old Zenith MKE had a bad reputation. Sadly if Zenith USA does not do better QC, they will get a bad reputation too. For a $1,200 MP5K clone, it’s only worth it if it works…

[@TheFaceofRebellion]

@CAVCOP Zenith was known for fixing bad MKE's and POF's. They got tired of fixing the guns they were importing and decided to manufacture their own. I don't like giving passes, but you're comparing a $1200 gun to a $3000 gun. If a $15 part is all that stands between me and an mp5 clone that is 95% as good as the real deal, I could probably live with that. But as you said, it's only worth it if it works. P.S I got a ship notification a short while ago. I will let you know when I have possession.

[@CAVCOP]

@@TheFaceofRebellionmost pistols have to be priority shipped, and within about 24 hours to 2 days. Then the FFL can take a few days sometimes to call you. Hopefully it will be in your hands this weekend! 🎉

[@pmubdeeps]

A few weeks ago I received my zenith zf-5 (after waiting months for zenith to ship it), and mine also has the exact same magazine wobble, which I find extremely disappointing, because that is way out of spec and is likely causing the problems. I've read that they have to adjust the magazine well itself for that problem to be solved. Filled out several warranty repair requests with zero result, so far. Contacted customer service and they said that all warranty repair requests should have been addressed and to fill it out again and they would bump me up the line. That was last week and I haven't heard back yet. Not really expecting to, at this point. I guess I'll wait a few months and start trying them again. I own an older MKE/Zenith import and its far superior in terms.of functionality, but I will say that the new Zenith has a slight cosmetic edge, but nothing that really stands out.

[@CAVCOP]

Seems like a common problem with Zenith. My had failures to feed. Have not heard back yet. Probably have to contact them again.

[@pmubdeeps]

@@CAVCOP I haven't even shot mine yet, cause with magazine wobble that bad I already know it isn't going to work. Magazine feels like it could fall out of the gun. I have zero confidence in it. What's even more disappointing is that they obviously knew it was flawed when it left the factory and sent it out anyway. They're probably so backlogged with repair requests that it will take months to get it resolved, if ever.

[@CAVCOP]

Last I heard it’s 3-4 week turnaround

[@CAVCOP]

@@pmubdeeps last I heard it’s a 3-4 week turnaround, maybe growing as a few people seem to have the same issues.

[@altayaltay2028]

👍

[@gregthomas588]

your saying Hecher and Koch wrong, its really annoying. "ch" in German is pronouced lie a "k"

[@CAVCOP]

Yes, it should be said like an Asian girl asking for a Coke, and saying 🐓…

[@lintlicker4178]

I'll stick with MKE, now imported by Century Arms

[@CAVCOP]

I was not impressed at all with the MKE I got. I had high hopes as MKE has been supplying licensed clones forever. I did a video on it, but the fit and finish was crappy. Outside and inside. Not impressed at all by MKE so far. And my H&K and Zenith grips don’t have the finger grooves and thumb rest.

[@lintlicker4178]

@@CAVCOP fit and finish on mine is great

[@AlwaysSurvive]

OK I’m really jealous right now

[@CAVCOP]

Hope to buy a Century Arms MKE later this year. All my funds are being invested in firearms 😢

[@AlwaysSurvive]

@@CAVCOP I know they hurt a lot but it’s not always a bad investment

[@CAVCOP]

@@AlwaysSurvive House, vehicles, firearms…

[@AlwaysSurvive]

@@CAVCOP yup

[@jerrydc818]

I say enjoy the fruits of your labor...’can’t take it with you’ 🤣 thx for posting 🇺🇸

[@jimmyvalhalla1939]

Koch is pronounced COKE

[@CAVCOP]

Thanks for the tip, I would love to hear you pronounce it. But it’s more pronounced as Cock. I am sure you know this though. Have a great day!

[@CoThG]

@@CAVCOP No, it's pronounced COKE. But that would make you even more out of breath to pronounce it correctly. Enjoy your POS clones.

[@B51608]

It is pronounced KOCH

[@riflemanm16a2]

It’s actually pronounced with an ach-laut, which doesn’t really have an English equivalent. The closest thing is saying “Loch” with a Scottish accent.

[@CAVCOP]

@@riflemanm16a2 some guys from Europe I was training were joking about it. They said there is a video of an Asian girl asking for Cock at a bar, saying do you have cock, can I have cock, no Pepsi, cock. I tried saying it with them, but it is unnatural for me. I don’t know how they speak so many European languages and switch back and forth so easy.

[@darionlear]

Am I the only one who cringed each time he called it "Kotch" 🤣

[@CAVCOP]

No others do too, but most people can’t say it right either. 🤣. It’s not said as coke like the elite 🤡 try to say it, more pronounced as 🐓 not coke. So do you say coke???

[@jerryrobinson8510]

That mag thing is unacceptable... HK is not like that. Over 4000 rounds through my SP5K. Only one stove pipe with 115 gr. In first 500 rounds. Zenith is a replica!!!!! I'd rather have one that actually works.. just saying...

[@CAVCOP]

@@jerryrobinson8510 yes my HK’s and the ones we used at my work were good. The ones at work had some magazine wobble, but nothing that bat or which caused issues. But I am impressed with Zeniths overall fit/finish vs MKE/Century

[@jerryrobinson8510]

My mags are almost too tight.

[@TherapyRange]

Just stopping in to get that comment in. FJB

[@CAVCOP]

Thanks!

[@ricksworlddereaux2397]

A Clone can never that good like a original.😂😂its just a cheaper knock off..its called hechler&koch..spelled like choke..without the oke..😂😂

[@CAVCOP]

H&K makes great stuff. Their HK91 CETME clone, is better than the CETME. I am impressed by the Zenith USA one, vs the Century MKE I also bought (did an initial video on it). For as long as MKE has been making them, I was disappointed with the example I got.

[@CAVCOP]

Proper pronunciation of Koch is interesting. Some guys from Europe I train with joke, that an Asian asking for a coke and saying cock, is more accurate than an American saying coke, as it’s more like cock. I almost did a video short of us saying it, as they speak German and all say it properly, and a few times I said it right.

[@ricksworlddereaux2397]

@@CAVCOP dude i am from germany..🫡🇩🇪KO....then like clear your troat..german.language is quiet difficult. ...compare to English..that presenter said hechler&kotsch....koch.means cook in german.... guy that work in a kitchen..🤣🤣

[@jacobgrove6582]

I just bought one of the Zeniths and now I am a little apprehensive about the magwell having issues. How does something like that make it through QC when everything else looks so good?

[@CAVCOP]

Poor quality control. Never should ship like that. Sad thing is I figured they had experience with the platform and were made by skilled workers. Mine is 23- and under 1000 (900 range). I figured they would have any issues worked out early. I guess not. Shoot it and see how it does. They can need some breaking in, but mine had numerous failures to feed. Extraction was good. Still waiting to hear back from Zenith, but if this problem is as big as it seems from people’s comments here and other places, they will probably be out of business soon. I will give them a chance to fix it. I do have a buddy that builds MP5’s and worst case I might take it to him. But I am hoping it’s the mag catch and some minor tweaking of the front magwell. I might do a video on the issue. My range day video did not have audio and go pro batteries did not last too long.

[@stonekold]

AP5 over 3000 rounds and had zero issues and still looks brand new. Their OEM mags are the best.

[@stickfighter1038]

Very cool. Always wanted an HK MP5 style pistol or SBR.

[@CAVCOP]

They are neat. Better when select fire/full auto/burst.

[@SPIN1963_]

Just bought a Zenith for Christmas ... overall a great piece. Customer service was a bit snotty but the gun has features not on the HK offering. The sling lug and the welding sold me. Make sure you take off that thread protector if you run a suppressor.

[@CAVCOP]

I was impressed with the Zenith over all. But the magazine catch/loose magwell should have been caught by an inspector/QC.

[@eddiebkingjr3772]

HK MAGS WOBBLE AS WWELL@@CAVCOP

[@CoThG]

HK says to leave it on.

[@DanielHebert-k3g]

Wilson Barbara Robinson William Anderson Brian

[@nicspeaker]

I had the same damn issues with mine..after 700 frustrating rounds i sent it back to century. they swapped out rollers and refaced the ejector like everyone on reddit had done. when i got it back it worked better but not perfect. i ended up buying real HK extractor claw and spring,Ejector gen 3, ejector spring. Now she is running top notch so far.

[@CAVCOP]

I just got the Century MKE today. Not impressed. The USA Zenith has a much better fit/finish. Hope in a week or two shoot them both. I now have all 3, and the HK is the best, but the Zenith outside of my fail to feed (video on that this Sunday). But so far the MKE using HK tooling is not that impressive so far.

[@lukaszimmermann2215]

I bought a MKE G3/T41 last year, it is beautyfull made, reliable and und 1.5 MOA with m80 ammo. These rifles are verry comon here in Germany, i have never seen or heard of a bad one.

[@CAVCOP]

@@lukaszimmermann2215 The M58 CETME is a great design, other than how well it expends brass/dents it. I hope to get an MKE and was lucky to get an HK 91 years ago. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gqalYqWMityeqbc

[@5TAT3N]

I love my mke but I also went to Reddit in an MP5 group I’m in and did my research so I would know what to replace before hand but mine runs smooth.

[@JayClouse-ni8vn]

Good comparo

[@5TAT3N]

Are you running 124 grain for your 500rd break in?

[@CAVCOP]

Yes. Most 9mm ammo I have is 124, for military/government based firearms. I still need to get out to the range and run ammo through my USA Zenith and MKE.

[@StarrGod696]

LOL… this one is hilarious.

[@SSS-qg7sh]

I’m picking the gun you didn’t have to send back

[@CAVCOP]

I have never had any real issues with any of my HK’s over the years. The NASA MP5 at Kennedy Space Center showed over 6 years it could take hundreds of thousands of rounds (over 570,000 thousand, with just basic parts being replaced per usage). The Mark 23 is another great pistol. If a clone of the MK23 comes out, I will have to get it to test. Turkey will probably try…

[@ronsimmsfan2661]

How does the mke compare to both of these?

[@CAVCOP]

I don’t know yet. Plan to order the Century MKE in a few months. I was going to order an MKE on Thanksgiving night, but saw the new USA Zenith was the same price on sale $1,200 so ordered it. Had a loose mag fit and failures to feed, and sent it back for warranty work yesterday. MKE can be hit or miss, but use HK tooling. My understanding is MKE has mag well/catch issues too, but overall is good. The MKE grip is the older style with finger grooves for right hand shooters. Hopefully in a few months I can compare all three. See if I can save up the money first, or if Zenith can fix my pistol first 🤣

[@fmj_556]

You forgot to show us the trigger group.

[@CAVCOP]

KZbin has a 15 min time limit for me. I edited a bit out to get the mark.

[@MS-1994]

I received my ZF-5P last week and got it to the range on Tuesday. Every 3-5 rounds I suffered a failure to eject, double feed, etc., with multiple rounds stuck. The gunsmith at the range kept the weapon and called Zenith, who told him that the magazines that shipped with the weapon are faulty because the follower distance is too great. He tried my ZF-5P with an HK mag and it shot 20 rounds flawlessly. He also noted the magazine wobble in the Zenith versus the HK they had on-site. I'm disappointed to be honest, but have ordered two HK mags to hold me over until Zenith can fix the mags they sent me. I'm hoping this allows the weapon to operate properly and I will report back.

[@CAVCOP]

It seems a lot of people have had issues with them. It’s funny, because I get a bunch of Zenith videos in my YT feed and they all report flawless performance, but I notice most don’t own it, they are just shooting someone else’s/got it on loan. I am supposed to get mine back today Feb 15. But might not get a chance to shoot it for a week or two.

[@MS-1994]

@@CAVCOP I'll look forward to the update. I'm giving this one chance to resolve before I return it and go with an HK when I gather more pennies.

[@CAVCOP]

@@MS-1994 the HK’s do cost a bit more, but ha Be a solid reputation overall (my agency MP5’s did have minor issues, and some had loose magwells, but overall they worked great). I hope Zenith USA figures out better quality control. I might reach out to them.

[@MS-1994]

@@CAVCOP I've been to the range twice since receiving my HK mags. The weapon now operates flawlessly. Now to see how long it takes Zenith to make right the three bad mags that they provided.

[@CAVCOP]

@@MS-1994 glad to hear it’s working. I got mine back the other day, they replaced the mag catch and I am guessing reshaped the mag well. Have yet to take it to the range. I was hoping they would replace my magazine, as it got chewed up a bit by their out of spec pistol. Nice thing I guess was it has not cost me any more money with free shipping under their warranty. I hope to have a Century MKE come in this weekend.

[@44Magpie]

"Koch"? Your inability to pronounce their name correctly gives you zero creditability.

[@CAVCOP]

🤣 so you are a purist? Maybe check my MK 23 video. If you are worried about how people pronounce things, life must suck for you.

[@CAVCOP]

Do you find yourself correcting a lot of people over this issue you have? Maybe take a chill pill? 💊

[@CAVCOP]

Do you find yourself correcting a lot of people over this issue you have? Maybe take a chill pill? 💊

[@FishKepr]

I noticed it too, but let’s try that again with a little more tact: While a lot of people pronounce it ‘kotch’, that is incorrect. The correct way is ‘coke’, like the soft drink.

[@CAVCOP]

@@FishKepr very true, I pronounce it both ways, more coke/coach when training with European militaries. Most American snipers with M110A1’s and M27’s say it the same way most Americans say it. I am so sorry if it offended you and ruined all credibility with me.

[@ricksworlddereaux2397]

Its d..m.b..to buy a submachine.gun..that size..that just work like a pistol..😂..its like buy a corvette with a yugo engine..dont make sense....they need be in full auto..if not buy a glock...or sig handgun..

[@CAVCOP]

I feel that way about the MP5, but the K shorter is more manageable and the 160th SOAR military aviators went with the PDW that have the Tri lug barrel, and with a brace/stock are neat. The roller lock is somewhat outdated but still neat. No bolt hold open, bolt locked to load. But historically a neat design.

[@BobbyDorf913]

Best gun channel on KZbin HELL YEAJH CAVCOP just helped me make me choice

[@CAVCOP]

I just got my Zenith back from warranty repair, they replaced the magazine catch and possibly adjusted the mag well. No cost to me. Have yet to shoot it. Also just ordered a Centrury MKE as they were on sale, and should have it this weekend. My MP5K clone collection is where I wanted it, for now….

[@CoThG]

Thumbs down

[@CAVCOP]

Why? No sponsors and stuff to push?

[@CoThG]

@@CAVCOP First off you can't even pronounce Koch correctly. Secondly, you're just a typical Bubba guntuber. Definitely a member of Meal Team 6