Zenless Zone Zero: Is Element % or ATK% Best for Drive Disk 5? | Experiment & Analysis

[@ExerFlame]

Hi chat and comments section!! I did test this myself personally as well. While I don't have access to test servers, my testing is very limited. The test objective is simple, ATK% or ELEDMG%, that's it. With this focus in mind, it is worth noting that getting a Disk without having any other offensive stats ie: ATK/PEN/CDMG is crucial. Not many CCs bother to do this simple testing, so I am glad I am not the only one who wonders about the comparison! Yes it is simple, but if we going to question about other factors such as enemy resistance, PEN and all that, you guys are missing the main point and objective in mind!

[@toxicabyzz]

o7

[@WhyNONbelieversareIdiots]

@@toxicabyzz my advice use a level 1 character and do not level anything on it put nothing so we have a base to look at but also that is difficult would literally have to make a second account to test everything from the start

[@lain2k3]

Seth's shield scales on attack, which means he wants attack in 4&5 and hormone punk 2pc

[@kyokusanagi9800]

This needs to be properly tested with buffs and invested disks. There is a lot of factors that can change the results because of diminishing returns, where a +0 equipment on a single first hit you wont be able to calculate properly. Actually people with private servers can test this properly as they can choose the stats of disks.

[@toxicabyzz]

@kyokusanagi9800 if you isolate this disk 5 test to just atk% and elem% and ensure the same conditions impacting both you will get the same conclusion. What did you have in mind to test? Whether i get the same answer with a 30 percent?

[@dlvarcade9729]

Is Disorder damage non-elemental? The damage number colors are not the color of any element so which stat affects it?

[@toxicabyzz]

@dlvarcade9729 disorder's damage is impacted by how much anomaly damage you apply, the stats of those who contributed to the anomaly and disorder activation, and how fast the two anomalies that were applied were activated. I think there is also a multiplier for activating the disorder effect aswell.

[@broad_cat]

Good info to have definitively. Is it known how Pen stacks up against this as well? Is there some threshold at which it is preferable to have PEN vs ATT or ELE based on enemy defenses or ability scaling? My intuition says that for bossing (which usually is the most difficult content and requires the optimization more), PEN would be preferable on support type characters who have poor scaling or characters who use many small attacks, and that as shown above ELE would be preferable on most general Attackers barring any special cases like you mentioned with someone who specifically scales hard into attack (Think Lucy but a selfish version). But that's unproven, and it might very well be the case that for the hardest fights, PEN might win out. Its just unproven, and I can't find reliable info anywhere. Stats like PEN *tend* to be dump stat fodder in games like this, but I'm just not certain of that.

[@toxicabyzz]

PENs answer changes depending on the enemy and the PEN% value you have achieved. The higher the enemy's defense the more valuable it becomes. But to be better than ATK% or ELEM% or any other lost opportunities (aka slotting in Rina over Lucy/Nicole/Caesar) you need the right enemy and the right PEN% rating before it becomes more viable. (There is an excel link on this page that has a ZZZ simple damage calculator if you want to scenario analyze and see general number expectations for what you have in mind: gist.github.com/Thereallo1026/b9caf4eb58405db2f79fc4b99d411baf )

[@XSABORZ]

im curious about the difference of atk% v elem% v pen% on enemies that are resistant to said element. pen% seems very difficult to test due to not knowing what an enemies defense is so im mainly curious between atk% and elem% against resistant enemies. if possible does pen% help against more resistant to enemies of that type?

[@toxicabyzz]

Thanks for the question, I'm almost certain PEN% doesn't help against more elemental resistant enemies (aside from its normal armor avoidance benefits). My reasoning is PEN% impacts the defense multiplier of the damage equation rather than the RES multiplier (link to damage formula: gist.github.com/Thereallo1026/b9caf4eb58405db2f79fc4b99d411baf ). To help against elemental resistance you need to influence items that impact the RES multiplier: things like Neko's M1: ignore a percentage of target's Physical RES is an example. PEN% is hard to draw a conclusion on regarding how it impacts damage as it's basically an exponential equation where its value for your kit changes depending on the enemy, your DEF reduction % and your PEN%. As for ATK% vs ELEM% against resistant enemies we can usually sidestep the question by just switching to a more appropriate DPS which is what I recommend for max damage. Though if it assists the enemy resistance gets applied after your ATK%/ELEM% buff so based on my tests above you will still buff your matching element less (e.g. ether) with the ATK% disc but as the enemy becomes more resistant to that element than your off element attacks become more valuable, depending on the enemy and your agents kit there could be a point where you want to switch to ATK% to buff your off-element attacks to increase your net damage, but given the value of the damage multipliers on your matching element skills in my opinion, it would take a special enemy to make that switch better.

[@GFXRubi]

I feel like that would be the next best thing to test out yeah!

[@Blackoutdmc]

I feel like this test is inherently flawed since all the discs are at +0. And while I respect the attempt to get a controlled variable, this doesn't really illustrate how big of a difference these disk slots can make because the numbers are just so small... I also think the best disc slot is going to depend on what each character's general game plan is. Examples: - Lucy and Soldier 11 get a bunch of in-combat attack through their ability and signature Wengines respectively. So stacking Attack is a competitive, if not better option than Fire damage. - Rina directly scales off how much Pen ratio she builds, so she prefers that over any other stat. (And to my knowledge, shes the only one who still does, by itself, it kind of sucks.) - Anomoly and typical DPS units prefer damage% because it simply provides higher multipliers to the most important parts of their kits. Plus there is always a chance to get Atk% substats in each and every disc drive, further driving down the need to build atk over Dmg%.

[@toxicabyzz]

I appreciate you taking the time to provide your reasons why this might need further work. I 100 percent agree with character kits changing what you slot. i picked zhu yuan because i wanted to see well b4 that is taken into account which one is better. Then i figured we can move into more difficult topics regarding exceptions to the rule. I do have a question regarding your first sentence. I get the sense that you may be looking for a test on how they scale? I didn't originally think of testing that but I think that could be important to establish some live analysis on. Before I start the work on that I just want to double check that's what you are meaning?

[@Blackoutdmc]

@toxicabyzz hey no problem. I just happen to be of the belief thay when doing test like these, it should be conducted most similarly to the average player. Most players aren't using +0 disc drives, especially if they're pondering the difference in strength between Atk, Pen, and dmg% stats. And yes, getting a feel for the difference in how well they scale is 100% part of my concern. Say for example the comparison at +0 for Damage% and Pen ratio is relatively small (say a 1-2% damage difference) these numbers might not be the same as when they're both +15, (maybe now the difference is 4‐5% by virtue of how the stats are calculated after all is said and done). And some people may not catch on to that. The TLDR version is it's important to be accurate. But I totally get why thats a pain when you can't really control substats.

[@toxicabyzz]

@Blackoutdmc sweet I'll work on the scaling question for my next video before I tackle PEN. The funny thing now is i will be actually trying to roll non damage substats so I can compare a scaled version.