Zoe Baker on Anarchism and Marxism Part 2 | From Alpha to Omega Podcast

[@anarchozoe]

Hope everyone enjoys the discussion. A few notes 14:27 - I claim I haven't read about the Durutti column recently enough to talk about it and that the person to read on the topic of anarchist militaries in the revolution is Agustin Guillamon. The book I'm referring to is Ready for Revolution: The CNT Defense Committees in Barcelona, 1933-1938. Another good source is Abel Paz. He has two books: (a) Durruti in the Spanish Revolution and (b) Story of the Iron Column: Militant Anarchism in the Spanish Civil War. 47:45 - I refer to the general secretary of the CNT being "in charge". This makes it sound as if they had a huge amount of power to order people about and this wasn't the case. I should have used a different phrase.

[@beeinthehive]

Keep fighting, comrades. If we fight we may lose, but if we don't fight then we've already lost.

[@notamurderer6226]

You won't just lose

[@dubiusindex8216]

Hey Zoe, at 13min you say, you'd wish to be able to read the accounts of the meetings of AnSyns and Counsil Communists,but aren't able to, cause they are in German. I happen to be German and can at least write basic English, so I could try to translate them if you'd post a link to the documents.

[@rowanjohnson9892]

Just finished the video My happiness is immeasurable, and my day is made

[@wrennifer9984]

some really very good stuff in these - I am sharing them with all my marxist friends. I especially liked the comparison between council communism and anarchism. I wish it had strayed further outside of the European context though. In particular it was a little disappointing to hear a reference to “hunter gatherer lifestyles of the past” when a lot of indigenous people across the world still live successfully using elements of pre-industrial “anarchism” as so-called hunter gatherers which I think western anarchists could learn a great deal from - in particular one doesn't need to presuppose industrialization or extractive relationships to capital and material resources, and in fact shouldn't if one wishes to have a communist society which can not only survive climate disaster but also avoid precipitating it. Obviously this isn't to advocate for anarcho-primitivism, but I think that a true synthesis of Marxism and anarchism which wishes to seriously engage with building communism must also contend with both schools' extractive and colonial dna.

[@lil_weasel219]

theres vids about hunter gatherers on this channel, and how it relates to anarchism

[@wrennifer9984]

@@lil_weasel219 Yes, those videos were posted after I made this comment.

[@kristinwatkins371]

Great discussion Zoe. I wanted to ask you if there are any books by anarchists that give a general history/broad overview of the failures of democratic socialism across the 20th century? Specifically demonstrating the ways in which these movements and governments in Europe and elsewhere, once formed, ended up suppressing and undermining autonomous working class initiative.

[@LuckyBlackCat]

Hi Zoe, I have another question. Where can I learn more about the ancoms who recommended that, during a period of revolution and/or scarcity, to do rationing via points distributed according to need? I remember reading that there were village collectives in the Spanish rev that did this, but I thought that it was just something they invented in the moment, and didn't realize there'd been ancoms recommending this long before. It seems to me like a good idea for how to implement rationing during revolution and/or scarcity, but years ago when I brought up the idea on the libcom forum I was downvoted, as to them points (even though non-transferrable) seemed like a form of money, so I am pleasantly surprised to hear that ancoms in the past were into this idea and would like to learn more.

[@anarchozoe]

Rationing is advocated by Carlo Cafiero. "We all agree that we are necessarily moving towards communism, but we observe that at the beginning, products will not be abundant enough; it will be necessary to establish rations and to divide up resources, and that the best part of the products of labor will be based on the quantity of work that each person has done. To this we respond that, in a future society, even when we are obligated to ration resources, we must remain communists: this is to say that the rationing must be done according not to merits, but to needs." theanarchistlibrary.org/library/carlo-cafiero-anarchy-and-communism

[@LuckyBlackCat]

@@anarchozoe Thanks Zoe! It's not quite what I was looking for, though. I was aware of ancoms of the past and present recommending rationing according to need, but not of them recommending that this be achieved by using non-transferrable points. Even though it was done this way in many village collectives I'm not aware of anyone advocating it. Do you know of anyone recommending the use of points for needs based rationing?

[@hedgehog3180]

My go to examples for how to organize an Anarchist fighting force would actually be indigenous resistance to colonization in North America, the system there generally was based on respect where warriors would follow a leader out of the personal respect they had for them and there were no long term obligations to stick with one person. This was also how a decision to go to war would be made, one person who would lead the campaign would propose it and then they had to convince people to follow them, this meant that only the people who believed in the war would be part of it and it had to actually be based on consensus more or less. And it wasn't just the warriors it was everyone in the tribe who had to be convinced since everyone in the tribe had to contribute to the war and would potentially suffer under it. I think this system in general is superior, while it might have had some issues due to unequal social power I think it's basically completely compatible with Anarchism, it doesn't give anyone any authority since the commander stops being the commander the moment the people he commands doesn't believe in him anymore, it also solves the issue of what to do if the commander dies in the heat of battle since you're just going to follow the person you respect the second most. I think this is better than elected officers both because it involves everyone in it more and it is built on mutual social bonds, of course scaling this up might be difficult and I don't have a solution there but I think at least on the tactical level this is the best and least structured system (which I view as a bonus). And it is at least something we should consider looking at and potentially building on.

[@LuckyBlackCat]

Very interesting discussion! I especially liked learning that James Guillaume recommended a phase of labor vouchers preceding free distribution before Marx. I tried finding the speech but I'm not sure if I was successful. I found "Ideas on Social Organization " which is dated 1876 but also says it was written 1874, which is confusing. Critique of the Gotha Program is 1875, right in the middle. Was the speech given in 1874 or 1876? Or perhaps there's an earlier speech I couldn't find? I'm also curious about the French socialist government repressing the workers' strikes. Not surprising as this is the pattern but I don't know of this particular case. What year(s) was that so I can look it up? I know you're probably busy so I hope you don't mind the questions.

[@anarchozoe]

The pamphlet is ideas on social organisation. It was written in 1874 and privately shared among other anarchists before it was made public in 1876. Marx's critique of the gotha programme wasn't public until 1891. The French politicians who abandoned socialism are Alexandre Millerand, René Viviani and Aristide Briand. Briand is the one who smashed a strike in 1910. They are briefly mentioned in Jeremy Jennings, Syndicalism in France: A Study of Ideas. There's a pdf on libgen.

[@LuckyBlackCat]

@@anarchozoe Thank you, Zoe :)

[@1997lordofdoom]

Does anyone have a source about those French Socialists that betrayed the working class as soon as they took power as a politician, she talks about them around 43:30.

[@LuckyBlackCat]

Wondering the same

[@LuckyBlackCat]

I got an answer on my comment. Here it is: "The French politicians who abandoned socialism are Alexandre Millerand, René Viviani and Aristide Briand. Briand is the one who smashed a strike in 1910. They are briefly mentioned in Jeremy Jennings, Syndicalism in France: A Study of Ideas. There's a pdf on libgen. "

[@1997lordofdoom]

@@LuckyBlackCat Thank you comrade

[@LuckyBlackCat]

@@1997lordofdoom You're welcome :)

[@TheMjsanty]

Terrific video.

[@iamnohere]

_Spread the bread, algorhithm!_

[@artemkanarchist]

❤️🖤

[@dragon_1333]

What you said at the beginning about marxists parties being sects that exist for the people in the central Committee to keep their life style may be true in the U.K. or the USA where they are not in parliament but it’s definitely not true in a number of countries in continental Europe where they are in parliament and push for a left wing policies and make a diference in people’s lives. I’m thinking for example of the Portuguese Communist Party (Partido Comunista Português) or the Workers’ Party of Belgium (Parti du Travail de Belgique). There’s a lot of good criticism of those parties but not that they are sects that don’t accomplish nothing for the people.

[@anarchozoe]

I don't say all Marxist parties are sects. I say that I think a lot of Marxist parties are sects.

[@dragon_1333]

@@anarchozoe I think that mostly happens when they are very small.

[@fyviane]