Zoo Tycoon Review with Tom Vasel

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[@danielhalasz-szabo5143]

Felt the same. We gave it a second a chance, but it didn't get better. You didn't mention the insane luck factor in it considering the weight and the playing time.

[@mrp4242]

I’m going to disagree that this game has an ‘insane luck factor’.

[@pjpaella]

I've had my unopened Kickstarter copy of this for a while now, and after reading about the manual and complexity of the game I have no desire to even open the box. :(

[@glendhanks]

I personally thought the game play was good. It is very puzzlely and 100% agree this i snot a casual gamer game. The rules did cover everything but there were a few times i wished they had something in a different part of the rule book. I think it helped i had watched a how to play video first. without that it might have been more difficult to get through some of the nuances. We also feel that we can play this my grandkids and allow them to kind of build the zoo (without the gameplay) but make it work to meet animal criteria and be profitable, educational, and conservation points. This really allowing them to pout together a puzzle outside of the normal rule set. (Results of that to be determined)

[@EfrainRiveraJunior]

I loved the PC game. I would like to try the board game version.

[@ladoo33]

I bought the deluxe version but have not opened it yet. I love animal games but its probably going to be too complicated for me 😒

[@JonArt_As_Board]

like a lacerda? nice made me want to play it.

[@mrp4242]

This is not a particularly good review by Tom. I felt he ‘mailed this one in’; anyone else get that vibe? Fair, he did give a caveat that its more a ‘first impressions’, and that’s appreciated. That said, he doesn’t even really show the components, which are a major part of the appeal of this game, just complains the whole time. And several of the things Tom complains about here are also present to some degree in other games he lauds, such as Ark Nova; so I will use that game to make some counterpoints. First, I would argue the rulebook in Ark Nova and this game are similar; both are colorful and of good paper quality, but neither are particularly good at teaching the game…ultimately I think they get the jobs done for those of us used to heavier games. But no question both games are better learned by new players with folks explaining it to them, then just learning from the rulebook. But that is true of many games in the ‘4’ BGG weight range. You cannot tell me Ark Nova’s rulebook is massively superior to this one. My guess is Tom was either taught Ark Nova and/or he read Ark Nova’s rulebook several times to have everything down, yet simply perused this one so he could play--would explain why he thinks he played it wrong; probably rushed. You cannot tell me he gave this game the same level of detail for Ark Nova in learning it. It may be that he didn’t want to spend the time as he did not find the game any fun-I get that-but Tom is a ‘professional’ here and I found this to be one of his more amateurish reviews. Ark Nova and Zoo Tycoon rulebooks are similar is quality, beauty AND confusion. Ark Nova, perhaps, is less fiddly as a game. But rulebook wise? Pretty similar. I expect the designers to clean it up for future printings, but its not the complete dumpster fire it’s made out to be here. Second, there’s nothing wrong with this game being heavy. People who played the PC game that came out nearly 25 years ago are perfectly capable of figuring out this game. My 12 year old had no problem whatsoever with this game. Can someone please show me where the designers stated they wanted to make an easy to play and accessible zoo game? Because I can’t. Zooloretto already exists. New York Zoo already exists. The designers wanted a Zoo management/animal care simulation-and they made it heavy on purpose. That may scare off casual gamers, but not the hardcore, and it may not sell like Everdell and Cascadia do; but I think they know who the target audience is for this design, and they didn’t compromise on what the set out to do for popular and accessible. Third, everything fits just fine in the box, and I’ve sleeved my cards. The same came not be said for my copy of Gloomhaven, again one of Tom’s favorites. The animal meeples each get a little tuck box, which we keep in the main box unless we are adding a species to the board. I found the organization here great, and without some bulky plastic insert. Fourth, I can set this game up and be playing in less time than Ark Nova. Because of it’s organization, we can get it out quickly…the Animal Exchange board takes about, maybe 30 seconds. And player boards and main scoreboard a few minutes. Really not that tricky. There’s no ‘numerous piles of cards to be shuffled reviewed and put back’. I own and have played Ark Nova many many times-its set up is longer. This also takes down much quicker that ark nova, owing to that the tiles are quickly placed back in the bag, whereas AN you have to separate out all the little shapes and sizes. This game does emphasize keeping your animals happy. While the Animal Exchange may dictate what is available, other ‘random elements’ can be mitigated, particularly through the use of your workers. I think the game does a nice job of making you think of the animal well-being, while also trying to maintain a financially sustainable zoo. It is much more of a zoo management game thanArk Nova is, and I thing reflects well on its inspiration from the PC game. This game is quite a bit of multiplayer solitaire, though, so players looking for a lot of interaction will not find it here. But the PC game wasn’t multiplayer either. In my opinion, the designers set out to do one thing, and hit the nail on the head. I don’t think the game is perfect, by any stretch, but I think it will fall into that ‘Hidden Gem’ or ‘Overtlooked’ game category for many KZbinr ‘lists’ in the years to follow. Wait for it. I feel like Tom barely gave this much of a look. This is not surprising; he has to give a ton of reviews on a ton of different games, and so can only superficially give any sort of account into a game that he probably already wasn’t excited for--this review was half-assed at best. I’ve been watching his reviews for ages-you can tell this one was blown through. That’s fine. He can certainly have his opinion, but if he’s going to share it on line as a professional, he can also expect there may be some rebuttals. Playing this game is like listening to Radiohead--many don’t get it at first, but so many eventually come around. The designers are working on some ways to improve it’s perception and have listened to the criticism and are trying to address some of them; my hope is they don’t listen *too* much to those who’ve barely given this game any thought and probably already had negative preconceived notions (ahem, Tom). If board games had a Rotten Tomatoes score, this is one where you’d see a discrepancy from ‘critics’ and the rank-and-file. This game most certainly has its fans, and for good reason. So, I would hope people take these reviews with a GIANT grain of salt. I don’t think this game is for everyone, but if you are a Zoo Tycoon fan AND you’re fine with heavier games AND you forgive Ark Nova’s rulebook and degree of its ‘luck factor’, and you enjoy games with small amounts of interaction, then you might do well giving this game a chance. As usual, if unsure, try to borrow from a friend of library before purchasing. I have not been disappointed in this one; it was my Game of the Year for 2023. But what do I know? I have a non-gaming day job. For reference, here are my ratings for games referenced in this rebuttal: Gloomhaven 9/10 Ark Nova 9/10 Zoo Tycoon: The Board Game 8.9/10 Zooloretto 8.5/10 Everdell 7.5/10 Cascadia 7/10 New York Zoo 7/10 Spirit Island 5/10 (the most overrated game I’ve played where I’ve played at least 20 times. I’ll still plays it, but begrudgingly; i do recognize it’s wildly popular)

[@spunx44]

Great post, thanks. Looking forward to getting into it

[@12345678abracadabra]

I own all and love lacerdas (except escape plan) and this game was literally too much work and not much fun. So prone to clerical error, and every action felt like going through a workplace protocol. Even more of a solitaire experience than ark nova, and so many tiny rules! What kills me is that because of the dice, people won or their games simply from that

[@spunx44]

@@12345678abracadabra skill issue. Also what’s wrong with Escape Plan?

[@lizziejohnson5084]

"can only superficially give any sort of account into a game that he probably already wasn’t excited for--this review was half-assed at best" Tom says in the video it was one of his most anticipated games of last year. In terms of the type of review, sometimes they do a video filled with a bunch of quick reviews where they don't go through the rules and give their overall impressions. This is from one of those videos - they get split up and put on this channel so they are searchable.

[@angelk.8285]

My thoughts exactly! Great post!