ZWIFT HUB In-Depth Review: How Does a $499 Smart Trainer Really Perform?

[@HobbyHoarder]

Great analysis, one of your best to date. I bought the Hub as soon as it was available to replace my Kickr Snap. I never expected it to perform as trainers at near double the price (as your tests also confirmed), but even the Hub is at the high end of my budget. There's nothing better out there and I don't mind a few watts of difference in certain scenarios.

[@gplama]

Keep me posted when it arrives and how it goes. 👌🏼

[@HobbyHoarder]

@@gplama It arrived today, was shipped from Netherlands to Germany, didn't even take 3 days. Box took a few hits, but the Hub was protected like a tank with all the packaging. A little unexpected, but it came with a second set of adapters and a note saying that the original adapters might not fit every Hub. So it seems like they either have different manufacturers or have tweaked the design while the first ones were already being produced. Setup is idiot proof, but I was left with a metal O-ring and no mention of where it goes (or even acknowledgement that it exists). I'm guessing it's a spare piece for replacing the cassette. First ride was great, no issues, although I wasn't actively trying to stress test it like you did. Overall, I'm very happy so far.

[@gplama]

@@HobbyHoarder Thanks for the update! The o-ring is likely the 1.8mm spacer used for 10spd cassettes (also 9, 8, iirc) on the 11spd freehub.

[@All4Grogg]

@@HobbyHoarder Mine came with an unlabeled 1.8mm spacer and can confirm that this is the spacer needed to use an 8 speed cassette. 9 speed cassettes will also use this and 10 speed cassettes are the weird ones that will either work with a 1.8 or with a 1.8 & 1.0 for some older 10 speed Shimano cassettes. For Campy riders, you chose that life and I have no pity. Nice inclusion, I would assume those who ordered an 8, 9 or 10 speed would have this already installed behind the main cassette body. I only ordered the 11 speed to have a spare 11 speed cassette for my road bike, my retired road bike that never quite fit right, has the worlds harshest aluminum fork, the sickest Sora 3x8 flightdeck and has found new purpose as a dedicated indoor bike is using the included spacer. (spacer goes on first, then main cassette body) So yeah, if you have multiple bikes with different speed cassettes, don't lose that spacer! Or it'll cost you $6-10 to replace with a nicer labeled one!

[@rongurney48]

".............to perform as trainers at near double the price........" like the Kickr Core. Now Wahoo is suing over just that.

[@derx6666]

If you use it at a training tool, and keep it in the right regions, it is definitely a step up vs a wheel-on trainer, and nothing can beat that pricepoint. If you want more, you just have to pay more.

[@gplama]

Marco, you've just condensed 27 minutes of me talking almost non-stop into two sentences. 🤣👌🏼

[@summarity]

Well the JetBlack Volt can beat it. That's now ~50 bucks cheaper still - at least around here. And not sold out.

[@royband5865]

If you want to use it for serious training I would nit recommend it at all.. you can't keep it in the right zone during climbing sessions.. yes erg will work in to keep the flywheel at the right speed. But try 300w 5min intevals during free ride you notice 270W while you actually push 300w.. oh and forget oval rings.. that will mess it up even more...

[@petesancer9317]

@@summarity Love the jet black volt!

[@arthurstreet2811]

@@gplama if I had the option of the zwift hub and the kicker core at a small price difference (less than $50US), which would you opt for?

[@Papa-Bogey]

It’s being released at the perfect time in the US (fall/winter season approaching). People are looking at indoor training. There was a lot of excitement at the initial release, and your early “test” results. Within my circle of triathletes, I recommended wait until these tests on production firmware were complete before making a decision to jump in. They are - and to mimic your caveat, if price is a consideration, this is a capable trainer to get you into Zwifting and indoor smart training. If price is not an barrier, and repeatable accuracy is paramount, step on up. (Similar to the Coros Pace vs. Garmin Forerunner comparison?) As always, thanks for great work on the deep dive! I’ll be pointing a lot of people to GP for “make your own decision” information. Annnnnnddddd ... it’s sold out. What did they have, 36 worldwide built and ready to ship? That’s a massive mis-step and circles back to your comment on selling teeshirts vs. trainers. They have a lot to learn.

[@mlegrand]

Ok, so I need to do all my workouts in the 52/11 to get the bonus watts that I so desperately need. Got it. Thanks Shane! 🙌 It still looks like a decent option to recommend for the price. I think it'll do what it's intended to do, which is get more people biking indoors and on the Zwift platform. My guess is that the Zwift team will make a very solid v2 version in a year or two.

[@kestralrider313]

great review, it was thorough and fair. My Neo is still the best trainer for my needs, but even with some of the issues, I'd probably still recommend this trainer to a friend who is starting out and not a competitive cyclist or watt-monster. There's just too much bang for the buck and getting you on the bike regularly for fun and fitness is the most important feature of any trainer.

[@brunomastrangelo525]

Great review 👍🏼😎 I ordered it day of release and recieved it the following day! Perfect for keeping my fitness. Why go overboard when cycling is for outdoor. A brilliant price and brilliant for winter use. Good job Zwift 👏🏼

[@timliscum2861]

I ordered one yesterday after watching several reviews including yours twice.. it will be fine for me.

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

Thanks for this deep dive. We have a number of club members looking to switch to a smart trainer this coming winter and this is great information.

[@ianstephenson650]

Shane, there is no way I expected this trainer at +/- 2.5% to perform as the +/- 1%, look at the bright side, people have payed more for wheel on trainers such as Kickr Snap. We get exactly what you are saying, not all of us are destined for Tour De France. At this price I will certainly save on tyres/ tires. Thanks for the amazing review though. I must have been in the first batch that bought this trainer, wish me luck because finally I have a smart trainer that scores really good based on your standards.😃

[@colinswan786]

Cracking content as always Shane! Thanks for continuing to push the market to produce better (or at least to stated standard) products.

[@shepshape2585]

I'm in a great place regarding this trainer...because I'm not in the market for one. I have the Kickr Snap, and while it's not at all a top tier trainer, it's perfectly fine for what I need. However, it'll be interesting to see if future firmware updates and the auto calibration fix any issues with power so that somewhere down the road I can make a smart choice when buying my next trainer. Thanks for all the hard work and your honest opinion.

[@f8c3themusic]

Just ordered one. I’ll report back in a month or so once it comes, and I get some reps in.

[@MichaelMa]

I would have loved these $500 direct drive trainers 1 year ago. But I managed to snag a new kickr v5 this spring for 800 bucks so no lost opportunity there.

[@gman16478]

Great review. You'd expect it to be less optimal than a Core for $300 less (more if you don't already have a cassette). I think I'm the target demographic. Someone whose been on a used fluid trainer with a speed and cadence sensor and who can't spend over $300+ on a better direct drive trainer at the moment.

[@michaelmechex]

I like it! Making proper Zwifting more accessible is great for everyone. It's cheaper than competition and not too crap, I'd call that a win!

[@marky9117]

Well I’ve just had the email confirming new stock has arrived so I’ve ordered one. As I said in previous comments, I had a lot of issues with a brand new Kickr Core that cost £700 so the Zwift unit at £469 delivered has to be worth a punt. Great that it includes a cassette of our choice too.

[@9thelastone6]

Wow - I usually do erg workouts with a pretty high flywheel speed - the big gear makes me feel like a big man

[@dalewelk5571]

Thanks for the detailed review. Perfect for what I need it for. It will replace a wheel on smart trainer. $573 after tax and shipping in the US.

[@MrBrianofarrell]

Been waiting to see this review and make sure it wasn't a complete dud before I pulled the trigger. I have being using a Novo Smart+ so I reckon this is exactly the right upgrade for me, my fitness and ambition on Zwift.

[@All4Grogg]

I see the weakness and have placed an order. Analysis here was fantastic as usual, for the price and for my usage (basically just riding around watopia, chasing my own times with the occasional giant group ride) the hub sounds like it should still be a massive, MASSIVE improvement from my Saris M2 that I would strongly NOT recommend even for the current $260 price point. The price comparison is pretty brutal, it's $99 dollars more than the kickr SNAP i regret not buying at the start, figure $30-50 for a trainer tire and the value here is hard to ignore. It's going to sell out, faults and all. The Kickr Core is currently $899 and the question appears to be if the known support and better accuracy is worth the extra $400 + cassette. On a limited budget, that is nearly enough for a separate power meter.

[@johnwoodard8717]

OK, that was 3 months ago. Did you pull the trigger on the upgrade and how did it compare? I'm running an S2 and seriously considering the Hub since I don't race so I don't need high end racing and training accuracy.

[@All4Grogg]

@@johnwoodard8717 It has been great so far, much easier and more consistent. Great upgrade for my situation.

[@NiftyMitts.]

Can’t believe they don’t ship to Canada, wild in this day and age.

[@scottsaerialadventure4118]

Thank you for the No. 4 Power Analysis!!! As someone who has Assioma Power Pedals and a somewhat smart trainer )an older Saris/Cycleops). I trust the power coming from my pedals as gold, so I almost always use this feature in Zwift and even with a budget smart trainer I think I would still use this method.

[@pascal3771]

I hope they fixed the common issue of knocking noises after the device heats up. It’s been a common issues with the jetblack volt, which is the relabeled original product.

[@fariqazaha6321]

There is a long standing rival for the exact specs and price point and its the Magene T200. Its a refined version of the Gravat, that one looks even more identical to the Core. If you are able to get hold of a unit, would like to see a review of it as well

[@davidgreene9302]

You do such a good job with your videos. I really appreciate what you do!

[@mikebrooks215]

Another great review Lama! Should make the switch from wheel on to wheel off that much easier for people and will improve their power accuracy too. It’s definitely a better experience going wheel off. If you are racing seriously on Zwift I’d go for the KickR v6 myself.

[@martynbuchanan2837]

Great review I ordered the hub yesterday around 6am and arrived today at 11, quite surprised how quickly it arrived. Looking forward to doing some rides 😀

[@gplama]

Hot damn! That's fast. Keep me posted on how it goes.

[@ttmallard]

Nice work, appreciate the details in comparing units/brands ... an aside, I luv deep front wheels, all winds & weathers nice to see 🍺

[@jonathansadler4911]

Brilliant thorough and analytical. Top work.

[@massimofi]

Hi, nice review. I was expecting for some reason more biased review but this was very positive surprise and sounded honest. Thanks.

[@lookinforanick]

It's a pity you never got to test the Suito, that would also be an interesting comparison.

[@phl1010]

Ordered mine. Thanks for the review!

[@gplama]

Keep me posted on the delivery time and how the trainer performs for you. 👌🏼

[@vietle8157]

The Zwift Hub costs $575 with tax and shipping, while you can find the Saris H3 for $600 total (bike shop selling on Amazon). Granted Saris is going through something akin to bankruptcy and future support isn't guaranteed, and the trainer is a few years old. I'm just hoping that these trainers are low tech enough to not give issues later down the line, in regard to software and overengineering. Looking forward to Zwift! Edit: The Elite Direto XR-T can also be had for just under $600 (580). Hope I didn't make the wrong move

[@starlitshadows]

How is your Zwift Hub? Any issues? Mine started making a knocking noise where the flywheel is after Im riding for 30 minutes. I was debating on these 3 now I'm debating on returning and getting one of the other trainers but Zwift customer service has been great

[@marky9117]

I bought a brand new Kickr Core for winter 2020 and it kept dropping out. So I’d be 2 hours into a 3 hour organised group ride and my avatar would suddenly roll to a halt even though I was pedalling like mad. I’d then have to go flat out for about 15 mins to catch the group. Not fun. For this reason I’ll try the Zwift trainer this winter. I don’t like Kickr products and you only have to look at the amount of officially refurbished ones for sale to see how many must fail and get sent back. Fingers crossed the Zwift trainer is more consistent.

[@dallamdude232]

Hi Shane. Thanks for another great review. I've been trying to look at the similary priced Saris H3, Zwift hub and kicker core (refurb). My main use would be for erg mode work outs which I know the H3 is great at, but Is heartrate bridging on the hub or the multiple Bluetooth connections on the kickr make them a better buy? Does it out weigh a lack of temperature compensation. Not sure what you'd want the 3 Bluetooth connections for on the kickr. Any advice would be great. Thanks Stuart

[@davidstanley9726]

Interesting deep dive. Anyone buying this level of trainer is probably not going to give a rip about power measurement accuracy. As long as it's in the ballpark and accurate relative to itself, that's great. I thunk most people buying this are just looking for something to easily get into Zwift training. No matter the level of very slight in accuracy, it's still going to be worlds better than my Cyclops Fluid trainer while watching KZbin videos of someone riding through the alps.

[@catha86]

You are totally right. No one really cares about exact powers as long as it gives you great workout and fun workout. This is like running on a treadmill which also isn´t like running outside but it gives you a workout.

[@sonjamarx812]

Very good analysis. Very helpful for my purchase. As a bloody beginner in indoor cycling, I'll give the Zwift a try! Thanks!

[@markthompson1699]

It looks good for the price point, and probably has the features and accuracy that someone who is shopping at that price point is likely to want. Whilst the Kickr Core is probably the nearest competitor on paper, in reality it is 40% more when you add in the cost of a cassette. I think the point you make about how well Zwift are able/willing to support and develop it may be the biggest concern for me. Do they just try to sell as many as they can as quickly as they can and then forget about it, or whether it receives ongoing firmware and software support. I think for me it will be watch and wait...

[@erichj7236]

Thank you for the great video! How does the ZWIFT HUB Smart Trainer compare to the Wahoo Kicker Snap? Should I keep my wheel on or is it time to switch?

[@bruceritchie7613]

I've been looking at this as a possible replacement if/when my kickr v1 finally kicks the bucket. I think for my use case (general group rides, no erg) with assioma pedals it may be almost perfect. The alternative is likely a SB20 ... huge jump in price of course

[@angepatgropro]

Shane - I nedd your help - do you think a rip rock 20 inch would be compatible with the zwift hub?

[@ArqFranklinDiaz]

@Shane Miller - GPLama Hi, I'm planning on purchasing a smart trainer, but since I have a Quart Power meter on my bike, I plan to use the trainer controlled by the Watts of my Quarq, so, do I really need to pay much attention to the accuracy of the trainer itself? And finally, can I use my power alongside the trainer just on Zwift? Thanks in advance

[@MRDEEKO1968]

Question , i have the Kickr snap trainer would the Zwift hub be worth the upgrade...im very much a amatuer cyclist 3/4 times a week 60/70 miles....

[@gplama]

If the Snap is doing a good job, keep with it. A direct drive setup is a step-up for sure.

[@brandonbabcock]

Awesome review.. Wish this was available in Canada, would have purchased on the release date, 100%

[@2wheelsonline]

Honest and unbiased review! Love it!

[@nicksmith5608]

Great review as always. I am trying to get my friend to see the benefit of indoor cycling over the winter and this is good entry level trainer. I am loving the more reliable Kickr Core. Out of interest, are you doing any reviews on the Lifeline Rocker Plate (discounted on Wiggle) or anything similar ? I see that neither you or DCR are pictured using them.

[@jerzyhorczyk7283]

Brilliant review ❤ as usually 🎉😮

[@simondowell5627]

G'day @GPLama Firstly, I really appreciate your in-depth data driven reviews - which highlight the pros/cons of different kit options in a really helpful and informative way for us consumers. I managed to beat the rush and get hold of a Zwift Hub which I have just started using (was mild enough to ride outside until recently). My main issue/frustration thus far has been syncing/indexing my 10 speed bike to the 10 speed cassette on the Hub. My friendly mechanic has taken a look/tweaked but it's still too crunchy for my liking. Do you have a video on syncing/indexing bikes to smart trainers? Also, I have Assioma Duo pedals on my bike - so it sounds like I should use these as the power source? As they will be more accurate and there won't be any experience downside?

[@starlitshadows]

I just got mine yesterday and I'm having the same problem with mine. I have a 10 speed 2013 Supersix 12/28 cassette. I can't shift into the big cog. What mods did he make to get it to work? I really don't want to spend time reindexing my bike every time I take it on and off the trainer. Might as well go back to wheel on if I need to do that. Especially if the gearing sounds like shit.

[@simondowell5627]

@@starlitshadows My mechanic added a spacer (I think) so the set-up pretty much mirrors my rear wheel. I also watched a few videos on indexing and have got much better at it. My ride last night was much smoother and it's a good skill to have anyway.

[@starlitshadows]

@@simondowell5627 Ah okay. And yes I agree on the indexing part. Especially if its minor. On my bike small front end barrel adjustments would be fine. But since its missing the whole inner cog it's a bit too much adjustment for my liking. I just removed the cassette and compared it to the one on my bike. Its wider by probably 2-3mm. So that's why its not reaching the inner cog. I'll likely need to swap to matching cassettes to fix this problem. I take it yours was an issue with the smaller cog or just lining up poorly?

[@flyphotoguy]

This Hub is close or even cheaper than my kinetick rock and roll that I bought, and still in use, years ago. I might just get this and try zwifting. Looks like they hit it on the spot by making it easy to get, build and run.

[@michwoz]

It seems that thermal drift affects unit's slope. Hence spin down doesn't fix a problem when temperature is high enough. Is it fixable? Maybe. If they are using simple, linear curve for spin down/zero offset times, they can replace it with something better reflecting reality (exponential? logarytmical? composite?). Something like Kickrs advanced/factory spin down may be required too.

[@royband5865]

Ownjng the Jetblack Volt the problem of the thermal issue is on 300W or higher at low flywheel speed a.k.a. climbing sessions. When doing a training session on erg mode you will be stuggling to maintain power when doing above threshold training as you need to push a lot more power then the workout prescribed. This is a big issue you either train too heavy or you can't finish the training. And remember 20% more power above threshold is alot!!

[@BigMeanyVids]

I’ll be brand new to Zwift as needed a way to bike to complement my running (outdoors) for workouts. I bought this on Sunday and they emailed my other email saying it was already sold out so glad I jumped on it. Arrives this week so we’ll see. Seemed to be a no-brainer as figuring any software issue they will iron out soon enough. Guess we’ll see. I dunno that I’ll be able to report much other than if it works as I’ve got nothing to compare it against. I’d like it not to be off by 30watts at times but hoping that get’s fixed.

[@BehdadBanian]

Thanks for a thorough review @gplama! A question I'm pondering is whether it's a better investment to go with a Wahoo Kicker v6 or Tax Neo vs, for the same amount of money go with Zwift hub + Assioma Duo power meter? It literally is the same amount of money. While asking, what's your gut feel for when/if Garmin might release an updated Tack Neo? Given that Wahoo came out with their update and now with Zwift making a move to gain market share.

[@gplama]

This is getting into subjective territory... so there's no right answer I can give. I hope my videos/reviews allow you to make a more informed decision whichever way you go.

[@rogerlahaye1948]

How can Shane give you an answer to that? You obviously have outdoor reasons. And obviously money is no problem. So why no Neo and powermeter?

[@BehdadBanian]

I guess a simple reason of not paying more than needed to get the job done Roger. I was more after a guidance based on experience. Not a biggie, I’ll figure it out.

[@rogerlahaye1948]

@@BehdadBanian I have no doubt that you will;)

[@rogerlahaye1948]

But:-), and keep in mind I do not know the context of you asking, personally I would buy the Zwifthub or Core in combination with a powermeter. I like to have a reference point once in a while. If you have other intentions than please feel free to ignore my subjective advice;).

[@MrLuigi-oi7gm]

Simply MAGNIFICENT review! I bow before you. 🙇‍♂️🙇‍♂️🙇‍♂️ Did you say the Zwift Hub has NO temperature sensor? If so, won't that make it difficult for it to correct some of the power issues via software updates as it doesn't have the temperature data it needs? BTW, I would be curious to know how effective it really is to have a fan blow on the outside of the cabinet of these units. It looks pretty sealed off. The internals may get some improved heat dissipation, but I think it would be minor so it may not be surprising that the fan brought little improvement to the performance of the unit. Or are there openings into the unit I couldn't see that would allow air to wash across the internals? Once again, BRAVO ON A JOB WELL DONE! 👏👏👏‼️

[@gplama]

Correct, no temperature sensor. Good question about the internals/fan effectiveness. The flywheel has a small gap around it where the plastic covering wraps around. I'm not sure what's on the back side of that. You may be right that the internals are too shielded for the fan to cool those effectively. Thanks for the kind words about the review too, it's much appreciated. 🙏🏼

[@MrLuigi-oi7gm]

@@gplama This situation reminds me of the new Apple Silicon MacBook Air. No cooling fans on that laptop does not hurt its performances within the confines of it's more moderate intended use case. But if pushed, the Air's performance does lag behind its Apple Silicon MacBook Pro cousins-which do have cooling fans.

[@paulgoulden9988]

Bought mine end Oct '22. Bearings on flywheel have just failed (03Jan'23) riding about 5-6hrs per week on it.

[@rubencresens8286]

Hi Shane, What would you recommend? The Zwift Hub, Elite Direto X or Tacx Flow S? They are all in the below 600 euros and have similar specifications

[@gplama]

Strike out the Tacx Flow (and/or the Flux). Hub has a nice ride feel with the flywheel and electromagnetic resistance. Direto wins hands down for power accuracy. It has a stepper motor resistance unit which can feel a little, well, steppy when it changes % gradients in SIM mode.

[@rubencresens8286]

@@gplama , Which trainer for less then 600 $ would you recommend?

[@forsequalcuno7811]

Hello, Whaoo Kirk core for 499 euro is a good option?

[@attilapados3897]

Hi! Unfortunately, when the Zwift Hub was released, they were all sold out, even though I registered earlier. At the same time, the JetBlack Volt is also sold out on the manufacturer's website. Maybe it will be available in a month, but I don't want to wait until then, so I'm asking if you think the ELITE Direto is a good choice, or should I wait? Our price is the same as Zwift Hub, but Direto is available. The Direto XR too expensive and since I'm a beginner, I'm not sure I need that much power. I know it's 5 years old technology, but Zwift Hub isn't the most modern either. The performance difference is not big, and I think the 14% increase is enough. Thank you for your reply.

[@gplama]

The Direto X (or XR) are better units for ERG/workout mode than the original Direto, if I recall correctly. The power accuracy on any of them will be better than the Hub. I guess it's your call to buy now / ride now.. maybe reassess things when the Hub is available and sell the Direto if you want to switch.

[@DISABLED12-7]

Would you buy this or the 2020 Kickr Core (new) for $700 for an entry level rider wanting to do interval training and base miles?

[@molhuwmartins9723]

... owned other roller trainers in the past but I like the Tacx unit the best

[@ThePiesforever]

Could zwift be doing what Google did with the Google nexus and give a different manufacturer a go for each new release

[@dennisobrien2653]

My Bolt2 is great except for its 'Auto-Pause' which takes about 6 seconds to PAUSE the ride. If you stop a lot - you get a low false ave speed AND heart drops off screen if you go inside for a pit stop. Only happens wearing Wahoo Tickr straps- never with Polar.

[@WowRixter]

Zwift Insider needs to rename the segment on the Reverse KOM to the Bermuda Triangle. Another solid review. For the price, looks like a good trainer. I wouldn't be surprised if Zwift adjusted the anomalies with firmware

[@StuCrooks]

Hey Shane, great review. How does the hub compare to the Jet-black unit that it's based off? Also, is it better the always use pedal power meters over trainers, given they are more accurate? Keep up the good work. Stu.

[@gplama]

I only have the Volt V1 to compare to. That unit didn't appear to overshoot watts in the high speed flywheel test.. but it did drift with heat. It's an acknowledged issue too. I'll test the V2 when I can get my hands on one. Bike power meters are typically more accurate than low/mid range trainers.

[@IdolOracle]

I opted for a referb Core for the same (ish) price as the Hub and I'm happy so far. Do you have any videos / advice for ERG mode riding - it's all new to me. Should I aim to do a whole workout in one gear? should I pick an easy, mid or hard gear? Should I be changing gears if there is a short sharp sprint or recovery to try to avoid freewheel lag

[@gplama]

ERG usually performs best in the small ring on the front and mid cassette on the back. That'll hit the "Goldilocks Zone" for most smart trainers. No gear changing required in ERG.... short-sharp sprints in ERG are never a good experience. I have a video all about ERG, but it sounds like you're across it pretty well. Video is up here if you want a look anyway: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gpPInZyNbdqCmM0

[@trepidati0n533]

I want to echo Shane on this...small ring front, middle gear back is usually the straightest chain line AND the quietest as well.

[@rmarkf]

@IdolOracle I am also considering a refurbished core. Do Wahoo for new belt to those units?

[@nilsalb]

Great review!!

[@bugihere7281]

Great review. Are you going to test Elite Suito which is at a very similar price level?

[@gplama]

Maybe...

[@marekmarciniak7447]

Received mine today in UK, unboxing right now

[@liamwba1]

How are you finding it a month on?

[@goldenmountains1371]

is the supplied 12speed cassette also compatible with 12sp Eagle MTB chains from SRAM?

[@JoshPeak]

Looks like for an amateur entry level trainer is #CloseEnough. Really great the Kickr Core comparison since I have a mate recently looking to start on Zwift, so up to price point and variance on how much quality he wants out of it. Also… explains why you’ve been so active on the Llama lab tests soooo much the last month. Thorough and amazing review. Need a “Llama lab coat” with all of these scientific protocols. 😂 Also.. where did you buy your Power2Max NGeco? From the Australian distributor site?

[@gplama]

The last few days have been such nice weather too... and I've been indoors doing this 😢. I'll be heading out tomorrow for a road ride. I'm looking forward to it. ☀️ Power2Max was from the Australian distributor two years ago. I think FE Sports has taken that over and is now selling them. It has been brilliant... aside from a few brainfarts in this testing. That could very well be the Edge 1040 I had it paired to.

[@JoshPeak]

@@gplama yeah I’m well and truly sorted for indoor power with Kickr V5 but wanting equivalent outdoor power. I got a 4iiii Shimano 105 left side crank that is super sketchy and unreliable to turn on and calibrate. So I am tossing up between the Garmin Rally XC and just doing the DUB conversion to get the NGeco and Rotor Aldhu cranks. Just struggling with sites and supply chains to get proper quotes for parts.

[@JoshPeak]

@@gplama Hope you get some magpie free outdoor kilometres though ❤️

[@NeonGrayEdits]

You say never use 53-11 in ERG. What about 52-14? What gears are ideal in ERG? Thank You.

[@gplama]

Optimal gearing in ERG depends on the particular trainer. Typically it’s 39/17 or so. It’s related to flywheel speed and the ability of the resistance unit to apply consistent/smooth resistance.

[@2002nkpB]

So, if I am just wanting something for indoor cardio. I don't take biking hyper seriously. Just try and stay in the aerobic/anaerobic zone for a workout. Is this the best option?

[@gplama]

This is a good option in that use case. 👌🏼

[@Jasonallansmith]

Bought the Hub to replace my Feedback Sports Omnium so I could have ERG mode for workouts and gradient simulation (will probably use my power meters for power). The only issue I am having is that I cannot get my bikes to shift into the smallest cog. This happens with both of my bikes, and I cannot figure out why… should I need to change the indexing in order to get it to shift to the small cog?

[@starlitshadows]

I have the same issue but big cog. I'm trying to talk with Zwift to figure out a solution

[@RaulVeldhuizen]

I hoped to find a confirmation of the fact that this test was done AFTER software upgrade that was expected to arrive before the release. To solve accuracy problem.

[@RaulVeldhuizen]

OK, I found the weaknesses chapter and it looks like the accuracy is not the same as the Jet Black. (or did you find another level of that one than Ray?)

[@mauroesse8353]

499€ zwift hub or 549€ refurbished kickr core smart + cassette? it will be my first smart trainer/indoor trainer (i start riding bicyle this is year and i want to have better perfomance next year). Any suggestion?

[@gplama]

That's entirely your call.

[@BobCycleBrisbane]

Another great review. 😊

[@TheKillerman3333]

i just want to play a videogame where i also get exercise. I am not trying to get good on the bike, i just want to have fun without focusing on exercise so i can exercise longer

[@dekta4]

with the money saved from purchasing the Hub spent on let say assioma Uno, issue resolved plus a power sensor when outdoor

[@penglee5879]

Thanks for the great review. If I understand your points correctly, sounds like the weakness around accuracy can be (largely) solved by an external power meter source, e.g. a pair of Assiomas? Also, with the Kickr v6 being launched, I expect the price of used v5 to come down in the coming months -- which is a better purchase, a brand new Hub or a used Kickr v5 (that's still probably slightly more expensive)? Especially if I have an external power meter source.

[@gplama]

As shown in the data deep-dive, the trainer does ok with an external power source.

[@budikuesal7722]

@@gplama nice review Shane. Would you recommend using Smart Trainer as Controlable and Assioma Duo Shi as power source? Will there be some kind of lag when zwifting erg or sim? My smart trainer is JB Volt

[@gplama]

@@budikuesal7722 That'll work. There won't be any lag in SIM mode. It'll take ERG a slightly longer time to adjust and stabilise though. See 16:41 in this video where I used the Power2Max as the power source for the Hub.

[@philipmansfield9951]

Great review

[@mikem7618]

How is the hub compared to the snap? I’ve found the snap to be awesome, works every time, reported #s are close enough and feel is great for 400$ worth the extra $ or keep saving?

[@gplama]

Any wheel-on trainer needs to be 'spun down' every time for best results... unless you're using the same tyre/tyre pressure/etc. It'll also drift as the tyre warms up or gets hot during intervals. The Snap is a solid option but direct drive is usually always a better ride.

[@mikem7618]

Ya my trainer stays in the same temp room, with a specific bike all winter. I have noticed drift, but compared to my kinetic which erg mode charts look like someone having a stroke on I can’t complain. The kinetic will never seem to smooth out and the the thing has become a $500 green doorstop..

[@mikem7618]

Ya my trainer stays in the same temp room, with a specific bike all winter. I have noticed drift, but compared to my kinetic which erg mode charts look like someone having a stroke on I can’t complain. The kinetic will never seem to smooth out and the the thing has become a $500 green doorstop..

[@laurippt]

Question - as an average 50yo woman, using a Kinetic Road Machine 2 smart trainer (wheel on), FTP of 157… I’m feeling like the issues in accuracy for the Hub wouldn’t really be relevant for me and it would definitely be an upgrade from what I have. Is this correct? I don’t really have the budget for something more expensive than the Hub at this time. Would I be better off continuing to use the Kinetic or would the Hub be considered a definite improvement? Given that it sold out so quickly, I have time to decide!

[@gplama]

G’day Lauri. The Hub will be a huge improvement over the Kinetic RM for sure. Also note that if they have any stock of Hubs, in any cassette configuration, you can order one and swap the cassette yourself to one that matches your bike.

[@laurippt]

@@gplama thank you so much! I really appreciate your very quick reply! Love your videos! I’ve only been Zwifting since June, but using my kinetic trainer with their app since January 2020, improved from original ftp of 110 to my 157.

[@SteveLoweMedia]

@Shane Miller what is the compatibility like with the HUB and thru axle bikes?

[@gplama]

It’s all listed on the Zwift site. 12x142/148 out of the box, iirc.

[@darinsteele7091]

this makes the kikr core redundant, i live in canada so the zwift hub would cost me $500 less....that's crazy! hopefully the hub will ship to canada someday.

[@gplama]

The Core has dropped in price here in Australia, which is an interesting move given the Aussie $ and USD are going in the other direction. Money aside, the Core is still a better trainer. Even after four years.

[@baribari600]

I need something that stays accurate in near-freezing temperatures. Haha.

[@neilmacpherson260]

yep, how does it do at -3 to +6?... ( ??covered trainer rather than "indoor?)

[@Xantulle]

Sold out on the EU website already 😅

[@kevinb6835]

i got one i ordered it at 8 o clock ^^xD so im lucky

[@grndkntrl]

It's just as well that I snagged a barely used Direto XR on eBay a couple of weeks ago for £350, instead of waiting to maybe get a Hub!

[@Schnake881]

Was also ready to buy it this morning, but when I checked around 9am it was already sold out with the 11-speed cassette. Just ordered the JetBlack Volt that it is based on instead. Actually turned out cheaper since it is on sale for 449€ at the moment. 😄

[@kevinb6835]

@@Schnake881 cool yeah i was a bit earlier :D i know both of them will be nice :D

[@paizsgyorgy]

@@Schnake881 where were you able to order it? Jetblack’s website says “coming soon” rn

[@solips]

Goldilock! Love the reference

[@paulmarks5800]

The jetblack is still available to buy and 50 euros cheaper. Any reason to not just buy the jet black?

[@gplama]

It depends if it’s a V1 or V2 and the clearance you need for your bike. The V2 remains untested as it’s a new unit.

[@mrwezbo]

Taking bets these will ship with a Zwift 6-9-12 month trial? .... or another thought - if a trainer was $0 but subscription price based - so say $50/month gets you a trainer for free or very little cost and a zwift subscription.

[@hondahardy227]

What are your thoughts about buying this trainer vs. a pre owned kickr (v3/4) or pre owned kickr core? I tend to see them pop up around the same price point locally and not sure how a used trainer would hold up to something that’s new.

[@gplama]

It depends on the use/condition of any used trainer. The Kickr 4 or Core would be a better option if they're in good condition.

[@hondahardy227]

@@gplama mostly using it for TrainerRoad workouts but I have a pretty low FTP so most of my workouts end up being in the 150 to 180watt range.

[@CocoNut2018]

Is it normal that the power at the pedals and the wheel will be different due to parasitic friction loss? Automobiles experience the same thing - wheel horsepower vs crank horse power.

[@gplama]

Drivetrain losses, yes/maybe. It depends where and how the trainer manufacturer have calibrated their units. The power differences in my extended tests can't be explained by drivetrain loss. They're both over/under/inconsistent.

[@luigibirillo6629]

GPLama, what about asking manufacturers of your reference power meters to send you several so that you can assess variability within each brand? For example Assioma.

[@gplama]

I have three sets of those already. 🤣 It’s also difficult to justify spending time doing that kind of reference testing for them. I’ll do it for my own purposes/validation.

[@jfreck]

Would there be much vibration that would go through wooden floors ?

[@gplama]

No idea. I've only used it on solid concrete + thick gym floor matting.

[@michaell3134]

Fantastic content

[@PawanSingh-in4xx]

Money is always a consideration!

[@mkoschara]

Thanks.

[@SnappyWasHere]

Looks more accurate than a Shimano crank based meter….😂😂😂

[@josephlawrence685]

I’m thinking of getting this as a step up from my dumb wheel on trainer as I’m tired of changing the resistance for hills manually. Will it be a really big change? And I’m getting a new bike for it trainer too. A wal mark bike as that is what I used b4 and while all I can afford haha

[@gplama]

It’ll be a good step up from a wheel on trainer.

[@gibfear]

I started with a fixed resistance trainer and upgraded to a wheel on one, the experience is night and day, auto resistance is a game changer! This one should be another step up again! I'm tempted to do it myself...

[@MrMattie725]

"sign up to be the first to hear when it's launched" No mail, already sold out :(

[@gplama]

Selling like hotcakes. 🥞 (The flywheel will also cook them). 🤣

[@Snicker60515]

That's why I went ahead and bought the JetBlack a couple weeks ago. Something like this would have sold out fast no doubt.

[@RossMKF1]

Kicker core or Tacx® FLUX 2 Smart Trainer 2:41