Zwift Price Hike, New Strava Features, and Des Goes to Band Camp

[@DanBirasi]

Left Zwift after 25000km and 9 years and switched to Rouvy. Only regret is that I didn't do it sooner, because Rouvy is so much better (for my needs).

[@jonwong1692]

What are your needs?

[@Robin_S78]

Agree

[@KG780c]

Left Zwift after 5 years. Have not missed it. Whoosh has been great, not one problem.

[@SecondPlaceInTheGeneticLottery]

Not one problem, except that you have to be pretty vile to support the government of the UAE, the backers of MyWhoosh.

[@hehehe5635]

Looks like you neither of you are wearing watches today! You guys also both wore the Garmin Epix Pro Gen 2 on Strava for the last little while, so I bet the new Fenix and Epix are coming out soon ;)

[@wamote6867]

Zwift price is too high now for not getting a secondary account for a family member.

[@tgrx1901]

A near 40% price increase for UK customers is not "a fair Price increase" Ray...

[@thefitfile]

Honest question, what isn't "fair" about it? It's essentially the same amount for all currencies/countries. 38.5% for the UK (though, taxes are included) and 33.3% for the US side (taxes not included). Thus, in reality, depending on the US state you're billed in, that'll be even higher (35-36% in total since taxes scale with higher prices). The prices at the end of the day are within 1-2% of each other. Keeping in mind that over the last 5 years, the GBP to USD has swung some 40% up/down. If anything, UK folks got the much better end of that "not fair" aspect than the USD folks... -Ray

[@tgrx1901]

@@thefitfile Simply put, the value proposition of the product was established by the price they have been charging. To suddenly decide that they have been undercharging by 40% and increase the price by that amount in 1 single step price rise is what is upsetting people. Is there 40% more value in the product now for users? No! What are users getting for that extra 40% they are now paying? Your angle seems to be that we should be greatful not have been charged more sooner.

[@thefitfile]

@@tgrx1901 But by that logic, they should increase prices every time they add features. To your question, yes, they've clearly added 40% more features since 2017. Thus, "40% more value in the product now for users" - each user will value things differently. As I noted in the episode, I don't put any value on group FTP sessions, but I do value pace partners. You can easily to Zwift Insider to see all the updates over the last 7 years, they clearly add far more features than any of their competitors over that timeframe. But of course, there's a cost for that (this price increase). Whether or not you want to pay it, is up to you. There are free and less expensive alternatives. -Ray

[@kjellivart]

For me, in Norway, the price increase from when I started late 2017 to June 2024 is approximately 135%. That’s not Zwift’s fault entirely, but means that I don’t think it’s worth it for my use longer. $14.99 in 2017 (no tax) was approx NOK 123. €24.99 (including tax) now is NOK 290.

[@tgrx1901]

@@thefitfile We could go back and forward on this a lot I suspect so I guess we will have to agree to disagree Ray! Companies who slap 40% increases onto their products in one swoop are, at best, guilty of poor financial management. Its up to each individual to decide if its acceptable.

[@BrianFaure]

Moved to MyWhoosh and happy with it for what I need. The price was getting to high to keep going during the summer.

[@toadlguy]

Unless you design for it from the start, Dark Mode is not a simple "toggle". However, as a software development project, adding dark mode is neither exceptionally difficult or a very large project. My guess is a developer or PM decided that supporting dark mode required a complete refactoring in order to support dark mode and many other UX features that were being considered. The "if we're going to do it, we need to do it right" mentality. This is why lots of fairly simple projects NEVER get done.

[@cyclingchantal]

Zwift becoming more a game and now a price increase. Nope too expensive for me. Switching to alternative

[@miketitus3592]

Canceled my Zwift subscription this AM-

[@peterm.7497]

Does Fortnite cost as much as Zwift? For the price of-$20/month-the turbo trainer should be included! Also, I think my local YMCA is cheaper per month with a swimming pool!

[@katesmiles4208]

Zwift graphics are underwhelming too IMO.

[@AirwaveMustang]

I use zwift a lot in winter so it’s worth the money for me, but i will cancel my annual subscription and just go month by month. There is not enough discount on the annual subscription and I use zwift only a few times in the sunny season.

[@johnnyboy4711]

Guys , zwift fanboys fair enough but how much will be too much for you? I understand you need it for your platforms but for the rest of the world,we can't absorb more increases such as last one. Hence dropped zwift like it's hot

[@thefitfile]

I use Zwift for less than 5% of my content and use it primarily as an entertaining way to pass the time riding inside. How much is too much? Not entirely sure but I personally find $20/month to be fair considering how much I use it for training. (Des)

[@johnnyboy4711]

@@thefitfile fair enough Des,love your content btw!

[@DarenC]

Hearing the name "Saga" immediately made me think of the British over-50s company. Might not be the best branding for the UK market unless that's the segment they're after :D

[@michaeleller7514]

For those interested in connecting strava with their dog activities, it does work with other trackers beyond the fit tracker. I use it with the tractive tracker for my dog, which integrates really well (a bit cheaper too).

[@puppet-head]

Zwift is now an utter ripoff, time to revisit the alternatives, you should do some vids on where the market is now.

[@99cya]

ill check out indievelo since im into workouts. they are there too.

[@JaniOllikainen]

Listening and cleaning and.. night heat maps. How about summer vs. winter heatmaps?

[@JaniOllikainen]

And then comes the weekly one.. ok, monthly would probably be better for not so popular places.. but hopefully they give options there.

[@beretta37]

The most important question is, where can I get that Run-Food Shirt?

[@trailzrock2]

You should include IndieVelo in one of your podcasts. I actually quit Zwift because I find IndieVelo better. My opinion of course.

[@laurynai]

I also use it, works great 🚴

[@thefitfile]

Yup, been riding IndieVelo a lot lately, something coming up very shortly now with Apple TV being in beta. -Ray

[@FliskerX]

20 euro for a month of cycling game is ridiculous. MMORPGs that have 100x more content are mostly not reaching that price and if they are they offer HUGE discount for 12/6/3 month subs. And it's not like there are big updates all the time either. Like where is the money going...

[@thefitfile]

Economy of scale is your friend. If we look at Activision-Blizzard, there's tons of financial analysis and information out there, due to it being a public company. But simple ballpark figures show WoW (as an example) at 9-million active monthly users (roughly 10x that of Zwift in a best case) - but of course plenty more paying accounts not using. But the key thing is those apps generally have in-game purchases. Financial analysis shows that makes up quite a bit of the revenue, putting average-monthly revenue around $22/user. Zwift doesn't have that revenue stream. Lastly, again, economy of scale is your friend whenit comes to building out things, which is why other platforms aren't that much different than Zwift (currently slightly lower of course). -Ray

[@FliskerX]

@@thefitfile I do understand this, but end consumer doesn't care about this. They just care about the product quality and price. And considering that we are also starting to see competition to Zwift (Indievelo, Woosh), this might not go well. I can tell that from my point of view I'm thinking... price increase in summer when I will ride zwift like once a week, I might just cancel it. Especially because I'm already quite pissed off about cheating in races with the controller (denying draft, cutting corners...) but that's just a cherry on top.

[@zerofugz1621]

$189 a year for a bike video game 😂😂😂

[@buzzman4860]

Absolutely. Live service games $100 per year. The difference is Zwift has 10's of millions of dollars in sport sponsorships that they expect their users to pay.

[@martinlevy5833]

Talking about zwift alternatives…why dont you mention/cover at all Rouvy? It is the closest competitor from quality point of view…

[@thefitfile]

Rouvy is different though. Rouvy isn’t a virtual world like MyWhoosh, IndieVelo, or a few others. Instead, it’s real videos which then have 3D objects/riders overlaid atop it. It’s cool in its own right, but many riders see it as a fairly different experience from a game standpoint. (-Ray)

[@vrapan]

@@thefitfile they are all aiming to make riding indoors more palatable/enticing/entertaining though, i can see why your logic would apply to something like Trainerroad but something like roovy is a fair comparison - i don't use either and no i wouldn't be paying 18£ a month for zwift, my partner is also dropping the sub for at least the summer early autumn while we are riding much more outdoors.

[@thsaintful]

I moved to trainerroad half a year ago and it's much better for my needs (smart and structured training plans). Now with the price hike, i don't think i'll ever to back to Zwift

[@ozgurinsan]

zwift price hike is outrageous.

[@MMichiganSalveRegina]

Are they [Zwift] ever going to update the program so that you can edit and create workouts in the app? Laptaps are decreasingly utilized with smartphones and it's ridiculous that you can't edit something that is web-based

[@timdixo]

Zwift is like a Satellite TV subscription but without tiered pricing….ie the only option is ALL the channels when you only want Eurosport!

[@markchedrawe]

Strava theory for fam rate… it will cost the same as 3 annual. So basically a fourth person is free.

[@SY-ve5qm]

The potential challenge of Zwift post price increase is how many users would pay in Oct/Nov this year again considering the current free options available…I stopped mine last month and will see if the other options would keep me off Zwift.

[@EverythingIsPhotogenic]

Any updates hinted for the Strava mapping feature that was somewhat nerfed several weeks back? Several users report a failure to generate maps in directions it used to or a healthy berth of options (in my case, if I want a flatter route I need to ride North, and it will no longer route anything to the north, despite healthy heat maps and a history of mapping that way). We finally got a proper distance slider, but the routing no longer works! Great podcast, as always! 👍😊

[@mick6ful]

I left Zwift after 5 years +. Whoosh has been great.

[@WayeOfLife]

Just messaged some dog running friends about the Fi collar... They bluddy wanna bring their dogs into my friend and family membership.. but if i do that I'll be slowest runner in the subscription group😱🤦‍♂️

[@Steve-cc8zg]

The rest of the world has increased prices on everything, so Zwift's increase is expected and honestly, while the percentage seems big in regard to the increase, who has anything better that incorporates training, social interaction and variety? I'm completely fine with it. My only gripe is that I should be able to do Alpe De'Zwift on a big wheel while wearing the Dinosaur suit. I mean, come on, that's sooooo obvious, right? Nice vide, as always.

[@lja3657]

The friends in family will allow three too save and one new sub. In every friend group

[@maxdreamcreator]

Cancelled Zwift. Ridiculous increase.. "hum boss, can I have a 38% pay rise please?", "why?", hum .."just cause I feel like it .."🤣🤣

[@mmh129]

It's such a weird take saying that "they make you happy" by increasing it now instead of in the fall. None of the users are better off by having the increase now instead of in the fall. I agree that's calculated tho. Zwift probably considered that users that keep it year round are also less likely to cancel due to the increase. Also, the annoyance of the increase will probably wear off by the fall and seasonal user will be more likely to return.

[@euroswilliams7303]

Zwift is such great value for money. I spend so much time on it and the club community isn’t on any other platform. Horses for courses but I’ll be happy to pay the extra for Zwift.

[@jhoff80]

For AI features, I think it'd be awesome if they could use AI to auto-suggest waypoints for water stops, bathroom stops, etc. along a route I've defined. Maybe even suggesting slight modifications to routes (similar to how Google has options to use routes that are fastest vs saving most gas).

[@tjanderson351]

@thefitfile not sure if you guys saw but looks like Strava posted their family plan pricing and details a couple days ago. $139.99 for 4 users however sounds like that might be a fixed cost no matter how many users you have. Regardless, pretty good deal if you use it to its fullest.

[@cedricgrandseigne]

regarding Zwift price increase: the problem is there is no option, you have the whole thing, or nothing, but some people don't care about virtual races, or erg mode, some people only want a "nice view" while training indoor. so basically price increases for stuff some people don't care about...I cancelled my subscription.

[@ChromeLuxx]

Zwift’s fantasyland ‘my little pony’ horribly bad cartoon graphics can’t touch Rouvy. Now the price increase makes it absolutely dumb to remain on Zwift.

[@kurrling]

ZWIFT BS. You have missed representing this story completely.

[@EverythingIsPhotogenic]

How? They captured the facts pretty accurately. Is it because they didn't double down on the internet outrage and validate your opinion?

[@sbrusgaard]

@@EverythingIsPhotogenic Zwift increased their prices December 1st 2017, and forced EU-citizens to pay in Euros instead of US Dollars in 2022. So, two price hikes within 6 1/2 years, and now this new one on top.

[@EverythingIsPhotogenic]

@@sbrusgaard and that was mentioned in the video. What's your point?

[@sbrusgaard]

@@EverythingIsPhotogenic that Zwift has effectively raised my subscription 3 times within the last 6 years and 7 months, not (this) 1 time in 7 years as the Zwift Marketing Department wants people to believe (and which is what Ray repeats at the beginning and later, even calling a "factual statement"). He only mentions the UK, not the EU. A citizen in an EU- but non-Euro country, both got to pay both the higher price and subsequently a higher conversion fee on top. Amounted to around $1 / £75p per month back then in local currency - about a 7-8% hike.

[@sbrusgaard]

@@EverythingIsPhotogenic I have written my points (facts!) several time, but they keep deleting it... EDIT: If you change to sort by Latest comments, they show up, but are hidden if sorting by (the default?) "Best comments". Weird behaviour!

[@triathlete39]

The same people complaining about the Zwif price increase have a $5000 bike and a $600 Garmin.

[@mikeprytherch8875]

I guess you are saying because you can afford a $600 Garmin you can afford the extra cost, I suspect for most this is true, but that’s not the point, it’s about value for money and the sheer size of the increase, 38% in the UK, £215 a year is a lot, it depends if you feel this is value for money, some say Yes and will continue, some No. The talk on my club Facebook seems to be split 50/50 which is bad news for Zwift if 50% of people are considering cancelling, and of these, everyone has said they are moving to one of the free options. Zwift should have moved to tier model in my view, especially considering there are good free options out there

[@triathlete39]

@@mikeprytherch8875 Actually I'm not, I don't have any of those but the people with the most money are the first to complain. It's like people with a $80000 car then complaining that gas is expensive.

[@stevenqirkle]

@@triathlete39that’s not true in my experience. My friends with $10,000 cars spend a lot more time complaining about the price of gasoline than my friends with $80,000 cars. And my friends with $2,000 bikes complain a lot more about the cost of bikes than my friends with $10,000 bikes. I.e. people who are most impacted by price increases are the most likely to complain about it. It sounds to me like you’re just saying people with money have no right to complain about something being overpriced? Which I guess is just thinly veiled jealousy?

[@trailzrock2]

@@triathlete39that’s why they have money ;)

[@ozgurinsan]

240 $ a year for a mediocre computer game? come on.

[@handsonthebars2032]

No watches? Both 🧐

[@thefitfile]

Huh. Strange that.

[@kelanmor]

Damn ray's skin color really shocked me, I never really thought about it, until he dropped the Watch

[@sportfittech]

Please be a new Fenix with LTE! My 945 LTE is dying and had to pickup an Apple Ultra 2 as stop gap for long runs as I didn’t want to buy another 945 LTE. 100k Ultra in July and I need a fresh battery

[@mariopejovic]

That's my first thought, they skipped wearing watches. Too many of us are paying attention what they wear, to figure it out what's new to come 😁

[@joelepstein7074]

They're wearing the new Fenix 8 but it's invisible, that's the new feature.

[@michaellanger5671]

I like your Yeti cup Des ❤! Great podcast even if not every subject is interesting to me! You guys rock!

[@thefitfile]

Thanks!

[@whizler]

Zwift operates in one of the most expensive areas of the US. If they were interested in profitability, perhaps they should locate someplace less costly. For myself, Zwift barely held value at $15. Defintely not now.

[@I922sParkCir]

Zwift is located in Southern California where there’s a rich cycling community and a large pool of gamer developer talent. From a “make the product cheaper”standpoint moving could make sense. From a “make the product better” I can’t imagine a better place for them to be. Moving is also super expensive, and so is re-hiring talent.

[@mikeprytherch8875]

@@I922sParkCir But they also opened offices in London and other high cost areas

[@DanBirasi]

The Zwift management is not up to the task, that is why they do not make money. How can you announce a 33 percent price hike just at the brink of summer season on the northern hemisphere (where at least 80 percent of their costumers live) and while during the Giro de Italia Tadey Pogacar is promotimg MyWhoosh. 20 dollars for basically a MMO ( massive multiplayer online game) is just to much. I switched to Rouvy and I like it better, and I think many people will look for alternatives now, making that pricehike massivley backfiring.

[@Steven.spendlesstime]

​@@I922sParkCir To be honest, how many sit in the office every day specially after COVID? I am pretty sure that most of their employees are hybrid. Most of their employees have probably left CA to save money themselves and live in UT or TN....

[@I922sParkCir]

@@Steven.spendlesstime I'm actually right down the street from Zwift and know some game developers. It's a field that made things work during covid but they really wanted those people back in the office. My work's head quarters is across the street from Blizzard's campus and you see that those folks come in every day. Working with terabytes of assets, it's not really always doable to work remote. There are great tools to work remote (I tried Parsec) but you run into lag, screen size and chroma sub sampling issues. The people that live in California's coastal cities, they generally aren't the ones moving away.

[@LarsVonderschmitt]

Wasn't there a price increase with Zwift last year or the year before? So the timing for the first increase was maybe 5-6 years and now 1-2 years.

[@sbrusgaard]

December 1st 2017 and august 2022 for a lot of countries.

[@sigfreed11]

I’ve got nothing against Zwift, nor their price increase, but I just genuinely like the IndieVelo platform way more - AND IT IS FREE. The racing is just a far superior product I’d love a podcast of an interview with George Gilbert. He is an incredible bloke and really has something great going - I think the indoor cycling world would be wise to support his vision!

[@EricJohnson-vi6ri]

My problem with Zwift is that they haven’t innovated or included basic features which should have been integrated years ago. Also, a 25% price increase is crazy. At $20/month I don’t think it’s worth it to most people.

[@arkos55]

Saga sounds like it would be cool for about five minutes, but I’ve never found graphics matter all that much with biking apps where the functionality and community of zwift is far more important than graphics.

[@willlehrfeld457]

I look at costs compared to going to a movie. A movie ticket is 20.00 not including all the other snacks for 2 hours. I spend 20 hours a month on Zwift so it is a no brainer.

[@katesmiles4208]

Great item. Loved the length.

[@AK-je7ns]

Fair price increase for Zwift 🤣🤣🤣

[@jamesinrok]

Wait. What is this video for syncing karoo2 to the new karoo app? 🥺

[@thefitfile]

Here ya go: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fau1oWxup9Z7g8U (-Ray)

[@himynameiserin]

Correct me if I'm wrong as I don't use Zwift and I can't seem to find anything with quick research. Why not take some of the traditional "free to play" models in gaming; like in game cosmetics, paid a Zwift equivalent "battle passes" etc... to either make the service either free or at a much lower subscription price. Because if we know anything about cyclists, it's all about FOMO, egos 😉, and looking cool. But then again, maybe it already has in game microtransactions that I'm not aware of.

[@StephanieLuff]

I paused my Zwift for 2 days before I realized I actually do need it to stay in my routine 😂

[@vitskr1]

i would pay $100 during peak season (january - march), it is totally worth it