ZWO ASI294MM Pro Review and Comparison Part 2

[@jerrycarawan5515]

Just watched your review on the zwo 294 mm-pro... thanks so much... I sincerely believe that this is the camera for me ... thanks for the help.

[@JoesAstrophoto]

Thanks Jerry, I'm glad it helped. I love this little camera so far. I'm really putting it through it's paces.

[@jodyschultz5870]

I also have the asi 1600 and was looking at the asi 294 because of the stats. I think you can already see the potential and once you do an apples to apples comparison, like you said, it's going to blow it away. The nice thing about being able to use shorter subs is obviously it makes the tracking and guiding tighter and less chance of planes, satellites, meteorites. Thanks for the review.

[@JoesAstrophoto]

Thanks Jody! Yes, if you already have a setup for the 1600, the 294 will just plug right in without having to buy anything extra or change anything at all and is a much better camera.

[@adamjensen7105]

Got the ASi1600mm pro and happy with it. Too costly to replace a camera every two years to get something new and I like the pixel size better. There will likely be a 4/3 sensor using the same technology as the ASI2600mm pro in the future, ill wait for that sensor.

[@JoesAstrophoto]

Thanks for commenting Adam! I'm sure they will be coming out with more tech in the future for sure. I still love the 1600 and will keep mine to use along with the 294 for the different pixel size. I think of them as tools to get the job done and as I add to my telescope collection I will probably need pixel sizes in between the bin1 and bin2 of the 294 and that's where the 1600 will come in handy. For now, the 294 in bin1 mode works much better for my focal length.

[@davebillybish]

Hi Joe, thanks for both your videos regarding the ASI294 MM PRO they're great. I have just got a 294mm and have been using it with 1.25" filters on an ED 80mm scope and having a lot of vignetting. Maybe the spacers between the camera and filter housing are causing it. Also, I took some images in Bin2 mode and PI doubled the size of the pixels from 4.63 to 9.26. I'm still trying to sort this one out. Have you experienced anything like this?

[@JoesAstrophoto]

I'm not sure what would be causing the vignette unless you have "a lot" of spacing between the sensor and the filters. On the Bin2 mode doubling, you need to get the driver from ZWO that unlocks the Bin2 mode if I remember correctly. It's on their website.

[@davebillybish]

@@JoesAstrophoto Thanks for replying Joe. The vignetting continues to be a problem for me. I've checked the spacing and it's all on the telescope side of the mini EFW. The camera face is right up to the EFW on the other side of it. I'll check out the drivers from ZWO, though I think I have them installed. The AsiAir Plus gives me the correct binning and pixel size, it's in Sharpcap Pro it goes pear shaped.

[@danjensen9425]

Oh an getting the 294 mm after tax return just on the fence with Baader filter set the 3 nm ones.

[@JoesAstrophoto]

Congrats! It’s a great camera. I just bought some Antlia 3nm filters which you may want to look into. They are a little more then Baader, but are much better in my opinion and half the cost of Chroma

[@astrorich4897]

Thanks, enjoyed your analysis, explaining where factors were different (filters, integration time etc.), micro lensing... useful to me as I am presently selecting my first mono camera for my 9.25 SCT... upgrading from 183C...1600 and 294 are on my short list with 7 position filter wheel + filters, not a tiny bit of change... 2600 would really be nice but I am also considering if saving the price difference for future upgrades would be more beneficial with my current setup.

[@JoesAstrophoto]

Thanks Rich, much appreciated! The big advantage of the 1600 and 294 are cost for the cameras and the filters. Quality filters will run about $2k for 1.25" but if you go to the 2600 you will need at least 36mm filters raising the cost of quality filters to $3k. For me anyway, that's a lot of money for little pieces of glass, but after working with cheaper filters, I see no way around it.

[@danjensen9425]

Great video. I did the Pleiades with the 294 mc pro and my exposures were way to long . I got that box on 3 of the stars and thought dust bunnies but they weren’t round and flats didn’t remove them. They were very large . I use Astro pixel processor and pixinsight. In a dark spot , bortle 3 -2 , I used the spacecat and canon t6i for 30 1 minute subs on Pleiades and it came out really good . Noise for sure but impressed with it . No guiding . It’s still up there and will put some time on it with the 294 and 60 second subs maybe 3 hours and see what happens. Now I know what the boxes are or might be.

[@JoesAstrophoto]

Thanks Dan! Those boxes are pretty much just on the ASI1600, but any cmos sensor has the potential for those ore something similar due to the ant-reflective coating or lack there of on the sensors.

[@Desertskyobservatoy1925]

I just purchased a ASI 294MC Pro....I thought about the MM, unfortunately I just don't have the time. As well, I'll be using it with a Hyperstar on a CPC-800, I've heard of good results with 25 second images. As well, contrary to what people say, you can narrowband image with a OSC like this....so I'm looking forward to doing some in the future....great video and thanks for the review.

[@JoesAstrophoto]

Thanks Steve!

[@CaptRescue2]

Good effort, we all get busy. The PI issue seems weird, hope you get some answers. I am using 533 with an old Celestron 8" SCT. Went with color to start out (less expense), may move to b&w down the road. I have started playing with binning to get better framing on some targets. I have used DSS and GIMP. I have moved from PS to Affinity. Affinity is adding Astro tools and is a lot cheaper. I plan on taking the PI plunge sometime soon, it seems to have a steep learning curve. Thanks for the videos.

[@JoesAstrophoto]

Thanks Cap, yeah, I was hoping for more comparisons, but just couldn't get the imaging time in. Mono can get pricey fast with all the filters one needs. I think PI is still my favorite for processing, but APP seems to be much simpler to use for preprocessing.

[@brianastrodoc2886]

I own the ASI2600mm, ASI2600mc and ASI1600mm. I bought the ASI294mm for the Bin 1 mode for a pixel size of 2.315 which makes it a much better match for very short focal length refractors like my RedCat 51. I’ll be selling the ASI1600.

[@JoesAstrophoto]

Yeah I'm really liking the 294mm for the bin1 mode. I can't quite afford a 2600mm when you add in all the filters.

[@arnsteindale5531]

Hi Joe, you mentioned (in about 6:30) that you have haloes around some stars with the OIII-filter. I`ve heard that some other people have the same problem, and that it`s a filter problem, not a camera problem. A friend of mine have ordered a OIII filter from Antlia to fix this problem. They are not cheap, but I`m pretty sure they are better than the ZWO-filters :) BTW-another great video 👍

[@JoesAstrophoto]

Thanks Dale! Yes, the ZWO filters were awful as far as halos went. Antlia are reportedly much better filters at a slightly higher cost. I hate halos so much I went with Astrodon and Chroma filters and am pretty much halo free now.

[@Astrobloke]

Great info Joe. Hopefully someone can help you with that pixinsight stacking issue

[@JoesAstrophoto]

Thanks Glenn, I'd love to see some comments on it as it has a very aggressive rejection algorithm.

[@sirmeowcelot]

thanks for the video. 1294MM is a smart way to go. at the moment I stick with the SBIG STT-1603ME.

[@JoesAstrophoto]

Thanks Sir, SBIG make very nice cameras!

[@hypersphereengineering6015]

That microlensing artifact happened to me on Antares with the ASI 294 MC Pro Colour camera. Is this due to the RGB Bayer layer? Seeing as it doesn't seem to be problem on your mono 294

[@JoesAstrophoto]

Thanks for commenting HE, the 294MC uses the IMX294 sensor while the 294MM uses the IMX492 sensor, so they really are different cameras with a similar name. I haven’t heard of microlensing issues with the 294MC, but on my old 1600MM it’s due to the lack of Anti-reflective coating on the sensor.

[@hypersphereengineering6015]

@@JoesAstrophoto I have since researched this a bit. It seems like it's the AR window above the sensor. The light passes through the window and the micro lens and some light bounces off the micro lens and is reflected off the AR window and back onto the sensor. The AR window is the culprit. There's an interesting Cloudy Nights thread on the science and math behind it.

[@GaryMCurran]

Thanks for the review on this, very informative. Have you tried Sequator yet for stacking?

[@JoesAstrophoto]

Thanks Gary, I have used Sequator in the past and liked it. In some aspects it's easier than DSS for sure. I think APP is a little better, but APP also costs money while Sequator and DSS are free. Much to be said about that lol

[@OlliesSpace]

Nice video Joe so many variables in this hobby when trying to solve issues. Great looking results with that nice camera.

[@JoesAstrophoto]

Thanks Ollie, I think that’s why I love this hobby, there’s always something new to figure out.

[@seanmolony-redstickastro238]

I'm struggling with the new camera decision. My QSI690 is dying. I'm looking at the ASI294mm but have only used CCD. Any thoughts? I have to stay with 1.25mm Astrodons though. I'm spoiled with that IC814 Sony chip

[@JoesAstrophoto]

I love my 294MM Pro, and in my opinion it’s the best mono camera that works with 1.25” filters. That being said, if you can afford larger filters, then the 2600MM is worth the upgrade price. I just can’t afford to buy over 2k in new filters and another 3k for the camera and filter wheel.

[@seanmolony-redstickastro238]

Joe's Astrophoto I'm in the same boat. If I had larger filters this would not be an issue. Having my QSI690 suddenly go down has left me in a precarious situation. Do I just buy another 690? That seems dumb. I just want to make sure that whatever I buy that I get the same good data or better if possible, so I'm in a huge learning curve and dead in the water until I replace it. We'll sort of. I still have my QSI683. But that's a Kodak sensor and not the Sony

[@JoesAstrophoto]

@@seanmolony-redstickastro238 It's tough Sean, I would say that if you have to stay with 1.25" filters than the 294MM is the only logical choice for highest quality. It has the lowest read noise, highest bit(14), and highest QE of any of the other CMOS cameras that would fit the filters. I've been seriously thinking about moving to the 6200 and just buying the 2" filters, it's just very expensive and hard to justify, but I don't think you can get much better for a consumer sensor.

[@HeavenlyBackyardAstronomy]

I'm leaning on the 1600, at least for these examples. It seems to pop more. I have the ASI 1600 and am still learning it and am very happy with it so far. I do have the Altair 294c camera and like it too. I didn't know about the larger filter size requirement for the 2600, but that price tag is currently a deal-breaker for me. Plus, yep, I'm lazy too and prefer to use DSS almost exclusively. BTW, the new 130mm Orion EON just arrived, as did the clouds and rain.

[@JoesAstrophoto]

Thanks Pat, I still love the 1600, it's been an amazing camera for me and I think in the right hands it still produces fantastic photos. I don't plan on getting rid of it any time soon. The 2600 with it's APS-C sensor size is going to absolutely need 36mm filters unfortunately. For good filters I priced them at just a little more than the cost of the camera itself, so together with the camera and larger filter wheel I was looking at about $5,500 and I just couldn't justify that. I'm excited to see your first light images on that 130mm, hope you get clear skies soon!

[@charliewatts6895]

@@JoesAstrophoto Great video Joe. Yeah I like the 2600 but for me as I have invested a huge amount of money in 1.25 inch astrodon filters, it's a deal breaker. I'm thinking of getting the 294. Question: can you just use darks to get rid of the ampglow, or do you need flats as well?

[@LogansChristmasLights]

Nice video Joe and interesting comparisons. The halos arounds the bright stars are certainly annoying with the Oiii filter. I stack my images with Astro Pixel Processor as I personally think it does a better job than I have been able to achieve with Pixinsight (but that could be just me).

[@JoesAstrophoto]

Thanks Logan, I’ve been working with APP more lately for preprocessing. It’s a much easier application for calibration and stacking.

[@svenvanveen4160]

Maybe an idea to share the raw data? I wouldn't mind taking a look at the data and see what stacking results my PixInsight will give.

[@JoesAstrophoto]

Thanks Sven, I'd love to see what others get with the raw data. Here is a link to it drive.google.com/file/d/1YzKCjSTI5rx043Pw1ZFe-3NOVWaVpo4B/view?usp=sharing

[@svenvanveen4160]

@@JoesAstrophoto Thank you! I will take a look at the data tomorrow. Hopefully we can solve this problem!

[@svenvanveen4160]

Hey Joe! I'm happy to say that I got a stacking result from PixInsight that does not show any weird rejections and stacking. If I remember correctly you said you stacked with the WeightedBatchPreprocessing script right? From my experience it is better to pre process manually in PixInsight (calibrate the data manually using ImageCalibration and ImageIntegration). I will attach a link with the workflow I used for your data. I am looking to buy this camera in the future and have never calibrated monochrome data before so I used a workflow from SteveCrowley on the CloudyNights forum. (www.cloudynights.com/topic/723971-making-master-darks-flats-and-bias/). I followed these steps for every filter except the darks ofcourse. i will come back with the results once I am done processing. Hopefully this will solve your problem too! If you have further questions, feel free to ask them!

[@JoesAstrophoto]

@@svenvanveen4160 Thanks Sven, I know how to do it manually, but just didn’t do it yet. I wanted to have the WBPP script make it work because I don’t want to do all my calibration and integration manually every time lol. I’m glad it works in PixInsight though, makes me feel better as the application isn’t really cheap. I’ve been playing with Astro Pixel Processor since I ran into this issue and I’m actually liking it much more for preprocessing and it’s also much faster. Looking forward to seeing the results you got from the data as well. I really appreciate you doing that!

[@svenvanveen4160]

Hey Joe! I finished the processing on your image! From which bortle class are you shooting? Pretty good detail considering the short integration time. Thanks for letting me process your data. I hope you like my result :) The rejection maps are also included in this file. Link: drive.google.com/file/d/13DkHg32WzPU_W0p3WMg3NJaWLN8RNmy3/view?usp=sharing

[@mikelockwood2104]

enjoyed this video also

[@JoesAstrophoto]

Thanks Mike! Much appreciated

[@Ben_Stewart]

Kinda lame they call it the 294 when it's using a IMX492.

[@JoesAstrophoto]

Especially because so many people get it confused with the color camera of the same name.