I Almost Crashed my Integra Type S at Laguna Seca

Let this be a lesson to anyone tracking on a 30 profile Michelin PS4S...
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[@wojtekp3212]

If your pressure was low 25, recommend 33, down 25% pressure plus full send... seems like the main issue is tire pressure not tire?? Glad nothing major happened at 80mph!!!

[@chaseespinoza4288]

Glad you’re alright! Makes me think twice about running my 265/30r19 PS4S on track with my M2C. Never had problems with 200TW 30-profile tires, nor PS4S 30 profile, but they’re merely a rainy track day tire for me. Can’t believe the tire collapsed like that! Thanks for the great content, as always, Fenton!

[@will_l]

On my old MK7 GTI, I used to run fairly high pressures up front to help compensate for tire rollover when camber wasn’t sufficient. Like 32-34 cold. Would aim for 40 hot. Never had any issues.

[@JX3200]

The PS4S should not be driven hard below 30psi. The one time i had to track on PS4S for time trials, they had to be pumped up to 34psi cold to not roll on sidewalls, was sketch even at 28psi cold. 235/35 on a 8.5j. The star spec BMW PS4S may be better off or running a wide tire on rim combo like 255 on 8.5j may help. But ultimately I don’t think it’s Michelin’s problem if it unbeaded at non optimal pressures, as the liabilities go towards to the driver when running non approved pressures by the car manufacturer. Stuff like this is also why track day tires with stiff sidewalls exist, allowing a wider range of usable pressures. In short, PS4S should be somewhere between 30-40psi cold, will only last a couple laps because it is what it is. P.S. nice driving 👌🏻

[@TheBb6prelude]

This track is really unforgiving to even the smallest errors. I like the fact that this car has a lot of understeer stock. That just means there's going to be a HUGE improvement over stock when you get proper tires, suspension and alignment. Thats typically what happens with FWD cars. Huge improvements over stock.

[@Zygrene]

Typing this from Thunderhill. New tires and suspension transformed this car.

[@CJ-gh4eh]

@@Zygrene What size tire are you running?

[@TheBb6prelude]

@@Zygrene looking forward to that footage 👍

[@eliezergutierrez2472]

Love these track videos in your Type S. Please keep making more

[@user-sk2oh1zf3s]

Amazing drive! Gave me lots to learn. I’ll be heading out to Laguna in my FL5 tomorrow :)

[@TylerZ]

I've had this happen to a Continental summer tire during an autocross - has nothing to do with PS4S. Just an underinflated tire being over-driven.

[@SleeperHonda]

Dang with the other lays.. bro this is watchable track content for sure! Nice work

[@DemVidzIsMine]

Glad you're okay. I've had 2 sidewall bubbles on my PS4S tires just doing mostly street driving. Hopefully it's just a bit of bad luck since I haven't seen other people have debeading and bubbling issues.

[@throker]

Wade the tire guy is awesome. He really supports the Northern California track community.

[@jim1013yyf]

Glad you are okay. I was in the c7 ahead of you right before your little off roading..

[@OVER5TEER]

I'm not seeing the "massive understeer" in T6 causing the off. It looks like you just upset the car a little on entry and catching the oversteer put you on course to run very wide. I don't think infinite front grip would have kept you from putting at least 2 off. At least you caught the car and didn't go into the wall backwards!

[@Zygrene]

I'm fairly certain the tire debeaded before I hit the gravel. The car didn't behave this way on previous laps/sessions

[@OVER5TEER]

@@Zygrene Wow that's crazy. I was just basing my comment on not seeing a big leftward steering input without response. It seemed like you corrected for the initial oversteer and then were just doomed to go off. T6 is one of those "commitment" corners IME. T4 is also, once you go in hot and time your steering input, you're in it, no going back.

[@optronix]

Ok, this wasn't clear to me while watching the video that you think the tire failure caused the off. Would there be any possible way of proving this? If the tire slipped off the actual wheel just from hard cornering, that's a problem... but playing devil's advocate it seems hard to tell 100% if it wasn't just caused by the actual accident.

[@ryuradeon]

Looks like the car has a lot left in it, even stock! Cant wait to see how the ohlins, wheels and tire setup performs. Ive never gone below like high 20s or 30psi cold at the track as the tires heat up quite a bit and ...24-25psi does seem pretty darn low! Nice save and way to stay calm.

[@marc9283]

added grip wont fix the lift-off oversteer habit of a fwd car. you have to be a little more gentle on corner entry.

[@Ezero8]

Woah, that's scary! You dodged a bullet. Glad you and the car are alright. I don't take my car to the track, but I think you did pretty well given your inexperience with FWD and Laguna Seca being a tough track in general.

[@IntegraTypeSPerformance]

Love the content. Where did you get your break pads and how are they on the street. Thanks!

[@BearMOTORing]

Wow, the the car has so much potential. Bummer about the tire. I didn't know that was even possible. Nice shirt BTW!

[@Pogona2011]

Damn!!!Glad you are OK!

[@nobutada55]

You seem happy driving the Type S. Who would have guessed that FWD wouldn't be as big of a deterrent when you have other lap times to compare to your own driving.

[@Zygrene]

To say I'm happy with the car (with the latest mods) is an understatement

[@ryuradeon]

​@Zygrene can't wait to hear your feedback with these mods...may end up convincing me to go the same route!

[@DoubleOSevan]

Clenched my butt cheeks as you got closer and closer to that wall haha. Glad everything is fine!

[@yaminoyume610]

close call, sucks that happened to you but glad you’re alright. Respect for staying calm and composed in that situation

[@bryanlarrea2867]

Man my last autocross of the year ended kinda like yours in my ek... Mine just randomly leaked all it's air on one portion of the outer bead on the driver front. I was running 205/50/15 rt615k+s on rpf1's. I was running the fronts at 23 psi cold and they got up to 25 psi warm. That stopped the event for me. Luckily it stopped leaking after airing it up to 40 psi. Anything below that it would of leaked quickly.

[@mechanics718]

Glad you were able to stop in time and were able to drive home. I had a similar scary off situation in my CT4 Blackwing. RE71RS on it's 3rd track day abruptly started understeering. While in the grass I also remember pleading with the car to stop while I saw the tire wall getting closer and closer. Fortunately I was able to avoid disaster and get back on track without any damage, but now I drive with contingencies in mind. And I always buy track insurance!

[@TheBb6prelude]

It's very easy for this to happen on this track. You're off on your racing line slightly and you might not recover if you're going to fast.

[@FL50ssp]

@@TheBb6prelude "going to fast" This is true for every track, LG is not a one off that defies the laws of physics. Once you exceed the available traction of any tire it is like driving on wet grass.

[@TheBb6prelude]

@@FL50ssp but of course,the difference is some tracks are more forgiving than others and it's easier to recover.

[@FL50ssp]

@@TheBb6prelude Sure thing. However, LG is much different regarding safety (run off areas and room as well as barriers...etc.) than most tracks. The same is true for any track approved to host top level motorsports events. Unlike some of the tracks I've been on where an off like the one shown here ends with custom by collision body work. And hopefully no serious injuries for the driver. And in this case, let's be honest the tire/s were not up to pressure which is driver error (rookie mistake honestly). Luckily nothing too serious came from this mistake.

[@churchofbrap876]

Time for a Spec Miata !

[@epvendetta]

This is the way

[@e36s54]

If you enjoy going slowly as much as you enjoy chassis flex.... yes

[@Zygrene]

It's the logical thing to do but for some reason I'm just not interested in Miatas

[@churchofbrap876]

​​@@Zygrenethis is the tricky part about tracking a daily driver. You eventually get fast enough where get offs or even crashes become more possible and you'll want something with all the safety gear. I was doing the same in an Evo and eventually felt unsafe in a regular street car like that, so i built a Miata with rollbar, race seats, harnesses etc. i know your situation is different with u using the car for the channel, but just thought I'd point it out. Trials and tribulations of tracking a daily! I think this would be a good topic for a video!

[@JSee-yq2zy]

​@@e36s54integra type s is a 5.1 second car... Miata is a 5.8 second car. It's not that much slower. Plus, it's rwd

[@nodrogkam]

Tires almost sing as loudly as the SX2 (post repave). It is just much louder for most tires now at Laguna tho. Nice laps!

[@billnorblat4047]

Glad it wasn't worse. Props for sharing it. Just my opinion, but lap timers can be dangerous. I feel you can tell when you've done a better lap naturally and that a timer to race against can be quite dangerous. Whether you fell victim to chasing your own lap times or not, only you know. But i do not time mine for this reason.

[@Zygrene]

Good point. I should just turn the lap timer around so I can't see it on track.

[@FL50ssp]

@@Zygrene Lap timer wasn't the problem here... "full send" on tires that were not up to proper temps/psi aka driver error was the issue.

[@calbeer]

@zygrene Glad to see you and the car okay, and avoided any major damage. Can't wait to see your next video with the upgrades. Just curious what other tires did you consider other the Kuhmo V730? Hankook RS4, Bridgestone RE-71RS, Continental ECF? 200 TW seems like a pretty competitive space.

[@Zygrene]

I didn't really consider the other options because V730 are such a great value considering their grip, longevity, and streetability.

[@calbeer]

@@Zygrene I see, I'll have to take a look at them. I'm currently running Michelin Pilot 4S on my 8th gen Civic Si, they have ~8 track days on them, so I'm also looking to move to a 200TW tire. MP4S definitely are soft side walls and scream for mercy when you push them hard like they did in your video.

[@dabjabar]

Nice save man! Tire literally rolling onto itself is a pretty wild sight! And hey, I think a pebble from this event followed you to Thunderhill West!!

[@Zygrene]

LOL that pebble almost ruined my entire day

[@jamesscherr727]

First time meeting wade? Dude is really awesome, he’ll do house calls and has very competitive pricing on tires. Great guy!!

[@Zygrene]

Yup, now I know who to call

[@mrgizmo7975]

Ps4s have a VERY soft sidewall to aid in the "comfort" department, need to balance that vs them sliding at higher psi, aim for 36-37 hot. That said, dont run ps4s on track unless in beginner group :).

[@93455Driver]

Wow, glad you avoided the tire wall.

[@Track_Star]

What app do you use for your lap timing?

[@CM-yy9bc]

That really sucks that happened to you! Even more annoying that these cars don’t come with a spare tire. 🤦🏻‍♂️ can’t wait to see how the mods improved it over stock. How do you like fwd compared to rwd? Is it as fun or different type of fun?

[@Zygrene]

Different type of fun but I'm thoroughly enjoying it

[@espinozanovak831]

Front drive cars need higher than normal pressure on the fronts when tracking. I normally do 36-40 in front and about 28-30 in rear. The front tires take so much abuse

[@rolandotillit2867]

The secret to carrying speed through T6 is to load up the front axle right after the bridge.

[@mentorofarisia371]

Dumb question - it used to be conventional wisdom to add a few pounds of tire pressure for better grip. Your hot pressures are about what cold pressure is rated, so it seems that your cold pressure is below manufacturer recommendations. How about setting cold pressure 2-4 pounds higher than recommended?

[@PennywiseM3]

Are you running the 5W-30 oil for track days only or all the time? I use the Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0W-20 in my 2022 Acura RDX A-Spec SH-AWD. Great oil.

[@Zygrene]

All the time. Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W-30

[@SonikDethmonkey]

This is why I don’t track my street cars anymore. It’s just not worth it.

[@Sayu2x]

"I will be breaking something and it isn't my PB" LOL great commentary

[@eliaslaine4010]

That car looks great now it just needs a Driver mod keep improving you got this Bud👍🏽

[@dubiousmike]

You should have driven my Elantra at gridlife. We got a 1:57.8 at Buttonwillow at gta finals this last weekend

[@Zygrene]

Fast! Would love to review it at a future track day

[@azmainabrar697]

hmm u might already b considering it.. but setting the front camber to a -1.8 to -2.2 should reduce that unsightly understeer. as long as toe and caster setup is done right, treadwear loss on regular driving shudnt b an issue. either way good save there! 👏🏽

[@Zygrene]

After lowering the car on Ohlins and punching out the front top hat guide pins, I'm at -2.2 front and -2.4 rear

[@azmainabrar697]

@@Zygrene oh wow! then cant wait to see what u’ll do next suspension geometry wise to reduce understeer

[@TML34]

No camber in the front, running 25psi on 30 profile is a recipe for exactly what happened. I wouldn’t put this incident on the tires. User error, my friend.

[@MrJohnkicksass]

What GoPro accessories are you using for the helmet?

[@Zygrene]

A bunch of random GoPro branded arms and a helmet mount

[@n00b240sx]

Glad you are ok foremost. Glad the car is ok second. Third. That’s crazy that the tire debeaded before you hit the gravel

[@kevintom5]

not that it matters but james corvette is a C7 Z06. just in case anyone noticed his rim in wade’s truck and was perplexed. also you weren’t the only person who managed to pull their tire off the rim that day. later on in the day a bmw 3 series broke the bead on their rear right tire at T6 as well.

[@Zygrene]

Good catch! And yeah I saw that. Something about the repaved T6 is sketchy

[@DOOMLORDHOKAGE]

would, this have anything to do with the softer suspension compared to the type R?

[@Zygrene]

Not sure. I had the dampers in Sport mode, which is the middle setting. I'm told Sport+ is equivalent to Type R in Comfort

[@StirlingMossDrives]

This just doesn’t seem like a realistic car to track. It can do it and has pace. But it seems better as a daily and a good back roads carver time to time.

[@coreyegan6751]

So much front end push, fun killer😢.

[@macula_]

I have a very basic question, in the G meter is each circle equal to 2 G?

[@Zygrene]

Pretty sure the outer circle represents 2.0 G, so each inner circle would be 0.67 G

[@zmelli]

How were your Oil Temps? Turbo cars usually get Hot.

[@Zygrene]

No clue. No oil temp gauge.

[@gabrielflores1149]

I was sliding all over the place in my 124 Spider with PS4S…300 TW tires are not track tires, no really. They’re great for the rain and longevity.

[@tealruby582]

Yup. 200TW if you're pushing it. Modern tires are so good that even 200TWs are fine to daily year around in the south. Did just fine on RT660s.

[@rjhick1]

Im not understanding so what exactly happened? Like what went wrong?

[@Zygrene]

The tires weren't up to temp, and they have very soft sidewalls, so the front right debeaded due to the high lateral load at turn 6 and caused me to understeer off track.

[@blkwng81]

Time for a rwd car

[@MrGsxrme]

I'm sorry for that price point on that car, the suspension should be better set up. Not to mention you need to properly camber that car for the track. The body roll on that thing is horrendous.

[@Zygrene]

The stock suspension is one of my favorite parts of the car, lack of camber aside

[@callmecue]

Were tires not up to full pressure?

[@big-R]

At 25 PSI cold they were likely not up to full pressure

[@Zygrene]

They were up to 32-33 by the time I came to a stop

[@big-R]

That's very strange then. Weird! That being said I also have similar Conti SportContact 7 and they roll so bad makes me scared that the tire will jump off. Running extra pressure because of it

[@stevemartegani]

Do you think maybe your tire pressures were too low as well?

[@Kmh0277]

Or possibly expired?

[@Zygrene]

Pressures were probably too low. Showed 32 after I came to a stop

[@stevemartegani]

@@Zygrene Thats too low of pressures for a car of that weight. Maybe if it was a Miata that would be fine, but its OK to hit 40psi hot especially with a low profile tire.

[@LaloCTR]

I agree with the statement as I think that pressure was under the recommended psi. I’m not an expert but I will assume that if pressure is not tight enough to seal the tire against the wheel, that might happen.

[@LaloCTR]

Glad you are safe, and that you didn’t have any major damages in your car!

[@stms4411]

So, are you gonna beat the shit of the Acura and then badmouth the car as you sell it (like you did with the BRZ)? Just curious. Seems like throwing shade at the tire manufacturer is a good bit of foreshadowing

[@SocketToMe]

Hope there's no major chips on the car. GJ, man.

[@Zygrene]

The rear passenger side is peppered, but such is the nature of track days

[@mr.cookie7308]

Great reminder for me to never get a used sports car bc somebody wants to try out their skills on a track. Tracking a car puts alot of stress on the engine, chasis, brakes and transmission, vital compenents to the reliability of a car. I wonder if your insurance would even pay for any damages if you crash and total a car at the track.

[@davidzebar6876]

I feel like you're overdriving the car. The tires are protesting on every corner. That will make your tires greasy in no time.

[@kjwong4730]

Phew

[@jonathanthompkins2131]

Don’t worry it's warranty lol

[@CarsMeetsBikes]

brown pants moment for sure

[@jamwest3146]

Looks like you broke your very expensive toy.

[@ilyamuromec2867]

It’s probably your wheel

[@danielmembrillo6472]

So many armchair warriors on this post. Don't listen to them. Great driving, you're learning a new platform. I've watched all of your track POV in various cars, you're a great driver....and mistakes will happen. I'm coming from high powered horsepower cars (1LE/GT350) but looking for a family cruiser I can take to the track that is manual. This and the FL5 are my only options it seems (modern anyway)....so following this series closely. Thanks for the uploads!

[@retrograde11]

Z posted it online for public to view, that means he knows he will get all kinds of feedback... Regardless, I'm in the same boat as you are. And looking at the same two options as a sensible solution. But now I keep thinking with family growing up, doing some outdoor activities more and more, getting a pickup for daily and toy/project/track/weekend car might be the better way to go. Not to mention being able to haul the car to/from track if something happens, being able to load up dirtbikes, kayaks and tow a boat if needed. It's nice to have options. Seams like a much better solution than one do it all car.

[@danielmembrillo6472]

@@retrograde11 If you can afford do both, track toy AND daily is ALWAYS the better option. I'm going down to one so need a do it all in one solution.

[@retrograde11]

@@danielmembrillo6472 trust me, I'm very cost conscious, and the current environment does not do me any favors. But you can get a nice pickup for 40k plus 15k Miata /s2000, c5, etc. Total 55k which happens to be the price of type s. Yes, there will be additional maintenance, nonetheless I think I know which option I would choose.

[@danielmembrillo6472]

@@retrograde11 That is a smart option. I highly recommend a C5Z (Nice examples can be had for a little more - 20-25k). I've driven many Miatas, love them to death. Never driven an S2k but love the AP1 high revs.

[@Datsun510zen]

Fortunately, close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. That said, no one likes having to pry there balls back out with a flat head screwdriver, but this is racing.

[@commonduck10]

Human error But you can learn from it

[@mikefesta7984]

FWD 4 EVA

[@optronix]

Is it really fair to blame the tire when you went off the track? I get that the PS4S isn't the right choice to withstand this type of track driving, but the folding thing should be chalked up to the physics it had to endure when flying off the track sideways into a couple hundred feet of gravel. Also I'm sure you'll be all over this eventually, but please try to include impressions of street/canyon driving after the mods as well. I will be doing the occasional track day but 95%+ of my usage will be on the street, and I feel that the car is near perfect for backroads fun drives, and don't want to do anything to compromise that for a few extra seconds of lap times. Also I kind of hate the way 18s look on this car but if there's legitimate performance benefits I guess I'll learn to live with it...

[@Zygrene]

The tire debeading happened before I went off track (I'm pretty certain)

[@Veyronp87]

There’s nothing worse than the sound of an under steering tire lol

[@mullner88]

Maybe only second to a tire that has rolled itself off the wheel and you are driving on the rim

[@UnrelatedNonsense]

That Z06 at 4:25 took off like the integra was sitting still lol.

[@Zygrene]

505hp (or maybe more) vs 320hp haha

[@epicurusgod]

wow in a FWD car lol😂

[@pan4632]

ditch the michelins ASAP. highly overrated tire brand

[@the_track_enthusiast]

Understeer 😢

[@st4xor]

Certainly fast, but how much do you miss the "fun" of RWD while youre put there? Ive only ever tracked FWD thus far, so ignorance is bliss 😉. But just curious...

[@Zygrene]

I do miss the fun of RWD, but FWD offers its own unique and fun challenges. I can also push it hard with more confidence.

[@tealruby582]

Maybe I'm just jaded but why are you tracking a $50k fwd luxury car? $10k NC2 Miata + $5k for tires and mods + $5k for track days, and then like $30k left over for a daily. Just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. You came very, very close to stuffing a brand new car into a wall.

[@Zygrene]

There are definitely pros/cons to tracking a daily driver. I just don't have space for a third car right now.

[@73dustpan]

It’s a heavy family 4 door car

[@kevinqian5079]

its 3200 lbs lmao

[@shakespeareracing7822]

zystappen the god tier driver with the save 🫡