It's kind of the same with Dieci Hong Lu and the answer - ESGOO really likes these two IDs, as he said himself when going over their placements.

It's like you said you were missing something. like the part about him being an aggro tank which is just a really good archetype. plus the part where he only has one stagger treshhold at 80%. and his passive and counter being able to stack def lvl ups(his counter is conditional but you basically get the passive for free in every fight). also the offense lvl up of the passive scales up pretty nicely with his missing hp %dmg increase. play him on a poise team, envy team, bleed team or just throw him in to take aggro he does his job great. his clashing is also just not shit? he also just doesn't struggle on current bleed teams. why mention him not having lust? if you're playing a team to solely min max the resonance on sanguine or contempt just don't bring him(even though he literally has all th e ego resources both of those need outside of lust so he works perfectly fine) or just run hex nails instead. he got a really nice ego recently as well in fell bullet that gives him basically free !POISE! and applies bleed. 4 of his egos also have passives that synergize really well (binds, la sunyata, holiday and fell bullet) so throw him on any team and trigger one of those. why complain about his rating when you left out the best parts about his kit? i understand maybe arguing about him not being so high in s... personally think he and pequod ish are pretty similar in strength but 4 placements up or down in the highest tier really doesnt matter all that much. you arguing him not belonging in s tier at all just makes me wonder what kind of team or skill order you were using when testing him.

@kires421 Funniest thing I've read all day: "aggro tank which is just a good archetype." Aggro tanks are a joke. Aggro doesn't work in unfocused fights, and in focused fights, aggro RNG is pretty damn unreliable. And as ESGOO himself had put multiple times, usually while trash-talking Sloshmael: "Why not just bring more damage?" My point with the stagger threshold is that he literally has to lose a turn in order to get low enough to start stacking some decent damage, technically 2 if he doesn't draw enough aggro and has to manually use his counter to redirect enough damage to get the stagger (and again, aggro is still very RNG reliant). As I mentioned before, outside of MD, his poise gain just isn't very good on poise teams, and while fine, he doesn't have to have lust to fit in on bleed team, the envy res that he desperately wants to make his one hard-hitting attack actually hit hard is just not abundant enough on teams that can make good use of his bleed-based poise gain. I mentioned his clashing because ESGOO weirdly said his clashing was good even though, compared to most other good 6*s, the only skill of his that actually gains any more clashing and coins is his S3, which is 1. Is far less abundant than his S1 and S2, so you don't get it as often 2. relies entirely on Envy Res, which means you have to actively drop what you're doing and make his teammates play their envy skills that turn or else he doesn't get that much big damage, which could be a huge opportunity cost depending on what other skills or EGO you might want to play that turn. And look at almost any other ID in S tier (and a ton in A tier as well) and see how so many at have conditionals on their S2s and/or S1s that at least them match the average Canto 5 onward's mid-level attack coin power. His S1 is permanently stuck at 11 (which fine, he has his counter [that he doesn't use when he staggers], so whatever for that), and his S2 at 16. Bringing up Fell Bullet is also just absolutely laughable. Have you even looked at that EGO? You only gain highest res + 1 poise, +2 if absolute res, so if you get a perfect 6 pride absolute res, you get a whopping 9 poise potentency, and guess what? It's a 2 coin skill that only gives you +1 poise count, meaning it's possibly negative poise balance. And the bleed? 5 potency. Beyond Ya Sunyata's passive, he doesn't have that much specific synergy that you couldn't just get with most other Heathcliff units. Rabbit and Multicrack benefit as much from Holiday's passive and relying on it to bleed wouldn't even work because you'd need a ton of gluttony to get enough bleed for poise gain. And any of them would make pretty good use of Binds, and fine, again in the very specific envy team setup, he gets more value out of Binds passive, but again S tier is meant for generalists that actually do worthwhile stuff on any team they are in, or for IDs that make the specific teams they are in absolutely bonkers to where it's more than worth building around them. Those non-generalist IDs that make up the majority of S tier and near the top of A tier are ones that absolutely make or break the very strong teams teams that they reside in, and while an Envy team would break if it lacked Pequod Heathcliff, envy teams just aren't all that powerful yet, fun, but not game-changing. If envy team gets enough synergy and power to truly contend with the big status teams in the future, then maybe I'd consider him to be S tier. But right now I'd say he's, at best, below Multicrack Heathcliff and above W Yi Sang.

⁠Read Fell Bullet's passive. He is a poise id with a pride s1, which guarantees his spot in the bl team with cap ish. His middling poise potency gain is fixed by an ego that is available as early as turn 2. Your claim about his damage being low is absolutely ridiculous. An id with 2-3-4 coins that can now crit consistently and dish out even more damage the lower hp he has is bad? While not on the level of recent id, if you use him correctly, his damage should always be higher than 4/6 of the team you run him in. You also underestimate how high ~230 hp is. Unless you let ricardo use all his skills on him or sth, he will never die on the turn where he gets staggered and after. Also, this might surprise you. This is a team-building game where you can redirect the attacks. Unless you are a buffoon, he will never die with that kind of hp. And guess what? More damage the lower the hp. Losing one turn is nothing compared to the extra damage you gain the following turns which makes the loss of one turn laughable. Plus, he still isn't fully useless while he is staggered because yknow, he can still function as a TANK. Tank, aggro, high hp, deals higher damage the lower hp he has is an absolute bonker combination. His only downside is that he does not function well in short-form content, which is similar to many ids released recently. Also, all that talk about not being useful outside of md and you fail to ever mention rr. The team you run him in, or atleast the team you should, has plenty of envy skills for him to reasonably achieve 4-res: Yi sang's skill 3, Don's 2 skill 2s, Ish's 3 skill 1, Meursalt's counter, not even mentioning heath's s3 already counts towards the res. Now I'm just wondering if this is just incompetence in team-building or in game-plan or both on your part.

Just place a defensive skill and leave it there discard specifically cannot discard defensive and ego skills

The s3 with max roll of 15 that FOREVER SCALES with the boss hp bloat in this game's lifespan, dealing infinitesimally more damage than pretty much even W ryoshu s3 if the boss health is large enough? Yeah no she's still good. Her s3 can have 0 base and coin power and it will still have the potential to deal the most damage in this game She has been used in EVERY SINGLE RR SPEEDRUNS, in every fight where even Wryoshu isn't fast enough, or the enemy has 2x lust weak. Even Ting Tang Hong Lu is still used, because his skill 2 deals EVEN MORE damage than Ring Sang's s2. Thinking chef ryoshu is "overrated" is one hell of a take.

aside from what the other person already said healing 20+ per takedown (with chef gregor on the bench) makes her pretty flexible to slot in anywhere imo

@@longnguchicken4580 lmao she doesn't really scale as good as you say. check the skill 3 again it's only (max 20). it's already non-signifact since bosses can reach 3000 hp in this game

@@kires421 also pretty sure her healing is made obsolete by the fact that spider ryoshu basically has way better healing that doesnt even rely on killing an enemy (on top of also healing sp)

@@heartbae87 I totally get why you assume her skill is like that, but no. “Boost damage by 5% of target's missing HP (Max 20)” is completely misleading and it’s not what the skill does at all. Instead, to calculate the bonus damage, it first checks how many times the enemy is missing chunks of 20 HP. 1 bonus damage is gained per chunk of 20 missing HP, but it’s capped to 20 total bonus damage. That bonus damage then benefits from enemy physical resistances, sin resistances, and sinner off lvl/enemy def lvl calculations. Every coin gets that bonus damage. It deals WAY more damage than you think it does.

No? Pequod heath has 2 envy. Outis has pride gaurd, so she's actually the only 3 sin ID.

I surmise they meant only id with 2 sins total, since Pequod Heath has a wrath counter

@@thatonecringeposter you're right, I'm afflicted with the project moon fan curse

@SuperDawsome pequod heathcliff has 3 sins. Envy on skill 3 and 2, pride on skill 1, and wrath on counter. Bl Mersault has pride on skill 1 and 2, wrath on skill 3 and envy on counter. Bullet Outis has pride on skil 2, 3 and guard and wrath on skill 1.

Honestly... in RR at least, chain battle is an Rcliff buff. You let him do the thing, then just die and have another unit take his spot, which removes his downside of being a potato once out of ammo

He's pretty good I think, just overshadowed by WildCliff in Chain Battles. But you run him, and make him burst 1 or even 2 IDs down before letting him die. Quick Supression can prolly one shot any other IDs.

i don't have him so take this as the theory crafting that its meant to be but maybe he could find a spot in a team alongside pequod ish and a few poise ids now that fell bullet is a thing. poise ids overall have pretty decent ego resources to spam fell bullet(esp pride). i recon pequod ishs takedown or stagger conditonal should be easy to hit with fragile even on tankier enemies which in turn would buff heaths dmg and make him take down the next unit with fell bullet. plus theres an alright amount of bleed among the poise ids. i mean ik theres shi cliff and more importantly pequod cliff but like it could maybe be a fun alternative to just burst through adds so his lack of bullets wouldnt be a problem in long fights anymore. if you have the ids and ego it might be worth a shot to play around with it. and if you do pls lmk. (i could be completely off and this is a horrible idea since i never use any poise ids besides the pequods and in limbus fashion can't be bothered to read up on them too much)

Thank you for your hard work

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