i knew it was easier to do electrics on arcade controller than pad. i play tekken since 25 and sill can't do the electrics on a pad consistently

Thanks; I just started

HI, what do you think about runahead in fighting games?

modern controls in SF6 don't require more buttons. here are my control layouts in each. classic LMH punch - 7 8 9 LMH kick - 4 5 6 throw parry drive impact - 1 2 3 9 buttons modern LMH - 4 5 6 throw parry drive impact - 1 2 3 assist - 0 special - 7 8 buttons With command normals and additional normals from the starters from assists, I have never felt like I'm lacking for options vs classic players.

if modern really is strictly better than classic, then you should use modern. limiting yourself for no reason makes you a scrub. it's no different than refusing to use throws because you think they're dishonorable.

he could also reach with spinning kick

still can't do anything

how do you react instantly to everything?

"I personally struggle to control my character in Smash way more than any traditional fighter" This is kinda why I been getting into Multiversus lately, I don't have to worry about tilts, apart from dash attacks (attacks while running, there isn't even actual dashing) every direction + input basically does one thing, feels a lot more precise. Smash Ultimate feels way too zippy for me.

To this day I have this video series to thank for a mindset that helps me get into fighters. While I don't follow the process here exactly I always make sure to remain in a default state of just movement and watching my opponent while every other input I do is done with purpose. Honestly I like learning moves in real time this way, trial by fire. Looking forward to playing MARVEL vs. CAPCOM Fighting Collection soon.

I wish I would've found this series when I started SF6

Great animations and info.

The solution already exists. Unsurprisingly, it's called Soulcalibur.

8:05 Get rid of tap jump and set right stick to "attack". It'll do tilts instead of smash attacks (you can use the macro for that) and you can up tilt without accidentally jumping. It also allows you to input aerials without influencing DI

Yeah definiticely the guy that said he wanted strive to be a fighting game that you can win without using training did it cause the hitbox, not cause there are a lot of people who can't dash (sounds dumb but I know people that struggle with dashes) at that point just put a win button

Been binging on your videos today, such great quality.

Great series, such great content

This series deserves so many more views

Great series

Such great series thank you

Great series

1button specials will never be the standard. I don't know why people think it will be. It won't bring in more players,people avoid fighting games simply because they're scary...1on1 battle involving punching a s kicking scares people.

A hitbox in online rank or at a tournament is cowardly.

meanwhile, keyboards: ☕️

I think supers that need more reaction time (from inputs) could use simple button inputs + 6 frame startup

Modern controls will never teach how to move on to classic controls, its pointless, an entirely different skillset that 99% of fighting games do not and will not use. idc what anyone says, its easy mode, learn to rotate a stick 90°. oh yeah and seeing hitboxes with like 14 different buttons is just optimizing the fun out of the game, its about who has the most buttons to do shit easier, but whatever i just like a stick with 6 buttons bc im not a freak

if anything i think the system today is pretty good, modern has advantages but at the end of the day it hasnt really killed sf6 or anything. the advantages havent proven that strong and people are mostly moving back to classic which is a good thing, modern players get to try the game with the easier system and can play on classic if they end up liking the game

To this day, I have no idea how a lever won over all button controllers in the arcades. It just doesn't make sense from a manufacturing perspective, it's much easier to manufacture all buttons rather than 1 lever for every 6, sometimes 4 or 8 buttons. Like wise from a programming perspective, having a lever is very inefficient because the lever is still a digital input.

I want that thumbnail on a shirt.

I never really felt right about people saying Smash is more accessible than traditional fighting games. I think it's true that given no knowledge it's easier to just move your guy around in Smash, but the second you interface with playing competitively Smash is way harder. Traditional fighting games just have a higher floor for having an enjoyable experience, but I feel like the people complaining about motion inputs wouldn't really play regardless.

i believe motion inputs can be intuitive, they just need to be presented better. i think sf6 is proof of that, as most players use classic, and a lot of players that start with modern are essentially "graduating" to classic over time it is in this whole presenting game mechanics to new players thing where i think an interesting single player mode could excel at teaching newbies how to do inputs. unfortunately most singleplayer modes in fighting games end up being really uninteresting. i understand that developing a fighting game is hard enough as is, so there's probably very little incentive in making an engaging singleplayer mode that's a step above from a boring, by the numbers tutorial. i think it's a shame, because in my opinion so many fighting game concepts would benefit from a way of learning them that's more interactive than just reading about them on a wiki

Stanley Kubrick would be proud.

Ironically the tilt/smash attacks in smash always frustrate me, but i have no issue with motions

Charge was invented to help players with motion inputs? That's wild to me as when I picked up SF4 in 2009 me and my friend were able to do motion inputs (badly) but couldnt manage to do any charge moves properly for months lol. I still remember the first time I was able to do chuns SBK and kikoken consistently in arcade mode and me and my friend were popping off

Smash isn't a fighting game.

An interesting approach that an indie game took, called Uchu Mega Fight, is to make a whole different character that uses smash inputs for each member of the cast, giving them different properties and mechanics while existing in the same game, usually the "Choy" version of the character has lower HP, is smaller and does less damage overall, can double jump, and easily combos after throws, and all of it with 1 attack button and 1 special button like Smash, vs Normal version characters with classic motion inputs and more standard Punch and kick button, chain combos.

Have had no major issues with motionless fighters. SF6 has clearly shown that classic is the way to go, but modern is still available for m more casual audience. And it works. I can now play against my friend who don’t particularly like to invest time in fighting game, but modern control still allows them to have fun against me. And fighting games have always simplified certain aspects of the game. But doesn’t mean it’s necessarily easier (though most are). Guilty Gear only has 4 main attack button and one special one called dust. They have a literal combo system called Gatling which makes connecting certain moves incredibly easy. While this has changed over time (especially Strive), it’s still a system that makes a certain part of the game easier. Yet +R and Xrd are still known to be very difficult games. I whole heartedly believe SF6 is as difficult as 4. Not in execution though, but the heavy mental stack that has to be dealt with. So, even though SF6 is easier to pick up and play, even on classic due to there being more buffer time, to get good at it is still hard.

Agree with the motion inours part but the whole lever controllers circlejerk is at best incomplete with its critique. There is nuance to it (at least in Tekken, don't know much about 2D).

So I'm not the only one that finds Smash's controls worse than those of practically every other fighter. There is so much finesse needed to contently perform what you want to do because you are using the stick so much. For movement I feel like it works great, although a dash button (maybe r or l) would be great but when it comes to attacks it's just a mess. Especially when misinputs are making you do a highly punishable smash attack instead of the safe poking tilt attack. Characters like Ryu with even more moves bound to those two attack buttons (+ motion inputs) are even worse. You can get used to it but I see no reason why there couldn't be an option for mapping smash attacks and tilts separately or even being able to map short hops and dashes.

Oh man the reference to 2001 A Space Odyssey 😂😂

I hope developers won't get rid of motion inputs, took me a while to learn them and I still feel cool every time I do them

As a 27 y/oldf*rt I really think diluting the difficulty kinda kills the satisfaction off of the game 🤷‍♂️

Hey Zissou, I read your accompanying blog post after watching this video and I really enjoyed it. More so than the video alone. Just wanted to say thanks for the nice read. How's darkstalkers been?

I love how Fantasy Strike addresses these issues

At some point people are just going to a have a button for every move on a character, imagine a tekken characters controller

Awesome video

The bad thing is the controllers are being created and spread in use because they make these games easier or more consistent. If everyone is allowed an advantage in something competitive, you often see the majority of people do it. If that is true for something like steroids that is illegal, harms your body, shrinks your testicles, and makes you die young the same would hold true to competitive gaming and input devices. If it's an option available eventually it will become the norm. So the question is, where will this end up? What does the end result of the input device look like? If it isn't an arcade stick, which it's likely not, we have to rethink everything. The whole genre is built around the inputs taking time to execute, and that with practice you can do so faster and more consistent. The gains in muscle memory mirrors the gains a fighter gets while training... this is a big part of why these games captured audiences. You choose that character and start out terrible, and over time you train and work hard until you are a competent fighter. Just like in real life the only limits are your opponents and there are contests to crown the best in the world. Whatever we go with really needs to capture this essence that is difficult to describe. Also, part of what was so appealing of playing fighting games on an arcade stick (and why many STILL do) is because of the visceral feel of it... it's more than just moving your thumbs around or tapping with your fingertips like you were typing. Being a bit more physical in nature I think helps you connect with the character as you move them. At any rate, it can't be "easy" to do these moves or there is little room for that growth, and at the top end being able to eek out a bit more is a huge deal. It also has an effect on tournaments, which are a magical part of the FGC. If an action is difficult to do or hard to do consistently, your nerves under pressure means you can easily flub up and drop it. This creates a great deal of tension, and makes the moments where someone pops off hype. Without that, it isn't interesting. No one would care about the Daigo parry if it wasn't hard to do. Without a passionate competitive scene, less people play and the game dries up. We bring up Melee as an example of easy motion inputs, but everything else is NOT. Even something basic like being able to flick on your shield at the right time before landing can give you an advantage. Much of the difficulty of execution is in the mobility in that title... and I would argue if we simplified all of that so anyone could easily do it the title would be less popular competitively and wouldn't have the same staying power. At a certain point, the input devices are working AGAINST what gives these games narrative (YOU are the main character, not the avatar you control; YOU level up in real life). It works against the needed room for human error, to allow for tension and hype that the tournaments and community needs. It works against having to train starting with the basics... it's like skipping most of a Rocky movie, having him fumble through a bit of training, and then doing OK in the final fight. Learning how to play fighting games from scratch, you have to fight and claw for every little gain you get. It's not like an RPG, where you can put on netflix and turn off your brain; it takes everything you've got to get gains. Every victory mattered because you had to WORK for it. You started off as a bum, a nobody, and you rose to the top. We can't lose this aspect of the genre or it becomes a hollow shell of what it once was.

The simplified inputs in my opinion are a good thing the real problem for the future of fighting games are the oppressive 50/50 mechanics and the neutral skip tech like drive rush in sf6 and heat dash in tekken 8. Strategy and reaction will be completely nullified by coin flips and this is real bad not the easy 1 button reactions

I might be a minority but I never had any problem learning motion inputs and milions of people over the yaers didn't too, developers of fighting games need to learn to make good tutorials for their games instead of continuing this trend of simplifying inputs.

Long running series like Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat etc can't just drop the motions and balance for it because fans would riot, but they are including it as an option because new games are doing it and that's not a problem for them. For my game I did think that for anything that's "too good" like a Flash Kick, you have to hold what I call the Alt button for a few seconds and then hit the special button. This way you just can't do broken moves on a whim. The would be an option for motion inputs but the game would be balanced around easy controls.