In theory you input whammy after the second YO chord and hold it while activating the third, but with them so close together timing that would be crazy while hitting it asap so I'm pretty sure I never used it which is partially why that act was so ridiculous. 2B just requires either a double strum on the G after pulling off to it or a really precise single strum which yeah is hell to time under that kind of pressure. I was trying to be sneaky and hide the 200k from the home page by posting it right before this score since it only shows the most recent from any one user (something I wish I'd thought of for Trog as well), but nothing gets past you all I guess lol. Appreciate the clarification, the 2nd act is hard but that last act is just stupid from all the whammy and it being at the end.

Thanks, sucks I had to spoil it on SH but I'm behind a few videos and haven't had much time to deal with them. I would've never forgiven myself if someone posted a higher score before I got around to uploading it. I'm fairly committed/optimistic about Cherry UB, I think I understand the mechanics of it and PAL should give me slightly more leeway with it, but I'm saying this with my sanity still intact so it's still up in the air. Psychobilly UB I have no intention of going for (I did initially when getting 1st before testing frame buffer/failure mode but gave up pretty quickly). When I TAS'd it at the request of Chris (NTSC), it was a frame perfect phrase which results in 9 frame perfect inputs (while holding each sustain properly). Regardless of where it was in that song or any other it would be imo entirely unreasonable, but being at the very end makes it beyond hyperbolic difficulty.

Ah I see, thanks for clearing that up (should've just asked). Probably will try it on PAL regardless since it potentially could give an extra frame (or just be more consistently possible due to frame rate sync/timings), but the 2nd act would be much harder since I can't play on CRT with it.

@@EvilApple567 I know it sounds stupid, but try to EHW the sustain. Like strum a second red before fretting blue. kzbin.info/www/bejne/sH_Jnnurf7esmJo

YT seems to have hid your comment from the link, what you're actually describing is the bizarre mechanic I found when looking into half bar in TAS around the start of this year. Early EHW doesn't exist, as in the earliest you can strum a note is the earliest you can "form"/activate it period (meaning in almost all circumstances you should preemptively fret a SP sustain), but there's a method with similar execution that allows for whammy on the first frame of a sustain (not normally possible) in very specific situations, what I've referred to as "buffered/1st frame whammy" in numerous videos and SH descriptions. The execution for it in this particular case (it varies, it works on many hopos as well but the execution can differ) is to strum R, input a whammy before the RB, then either hold the bar down during RB activation or release it no earlier than a frame before activation. Now the part you're describing is another strange quirk of it, that to function you have to strum and fret the note on the same frame. The sustain will light up blue and start giving SP, but this first "buffered" whammy will not show the normal whammy "pump" visual. This all seems to be a similar situation to EHW where it's essentially a buffer to make the experience smoother for the player, but obviously is much more niche.

It could very well be inconsistent between runs even with a frame perfect buffered/1st frame whammy due to frame rate sync discrepancies, but I really didn't go all out for it due to rather trying it on PAL, wanting the best score if it wasn't possible on NTSC, and just being worn out from WP.

Yeah, he was the first to do the 3rd act Nearly Ideal, I just wanted good enough ticks for 372 since every following act is much harder after getting both that and the EHW exclusive 2nd double. Just ordered the card, here's hoping it gets lost in mail or something, really not looking forward to Trog/Cherry Pie UB.

Sorry to hear that, also sorry if it has anything to do with the lag situation. You set plenty of great scores without it like KitN, Bad Reputation, and (presumably) Strutter.

@@EvilApple567 yep those scores i didnt use the lag on as they were done before knowing that was a thing you could do. you set some crazy scores lately nice seeing gh2 being active.

Hm, I thought I did a pretty good job showing how hard it was lmao All those last act chokes were after the 1st double (I had never touched this song beforehand so had no experience with last), it took probably 30 runs past act 1, just as many dying to whammy as clips in preroll footage.

Thanks for the very nice comment, best of luck on your PS2 endeavors. Hopefully my Trog regrind goes as well as yours lol

@@EvilApple567 You got this!

thought this said insane tickling

It's beatable, but not something particularly high on the priority list for me atm, even for songs I eventually want to redo/expand/retake record on.

That's bizarre since you're the only one with video proof (at least remaining). Appreciate you at least being upfront and recording for proof.

@@EvilApple567 thanks man, it’s annoying to see “video proof” just a yt private video or broken link

I just TAS'd it out since it's so simple, the first act was 2 frames, the second was 1 (although without the adjustment to the GY instead of YO it was impossible, pretty sure due to frame rate sync/chart misalignment however). I'm hesitant to declare anything based on TAS due to the Red Lottery 1st act debacle, but it seems pretty accurate from my exp so I'll hold off calling this optimal (if anything things seem ever so slightly more generous on hardware from what I've seen). I've ran into some funky stuff through TAS with tempo and hit windows, for instance the reason I found the change for Six's second act to make the double more feasible is due to the path's act being a 2 frame window despite its ~190 tempo. In the description how I related this to Monkey Wrench, the first act of that song was a 3 frame window pretty much no matter where I tested it, yet the last was almost always a 2 frame even delaying it to the same 175 tempo and across multiple reloads.

It's not the end-all be-all, but it is incredibly valuable info, especially in the HMX games where it's virtually impossible to tell what's possible on acts with lots of whammy. From everything I've seen it hasn't been more than a frame off, and even that can be attributed (at least partially) to frame sync inconsistencies which (logically) seem to permeate the series given theories/findings from Joe on GH3. There's also just the possibility my settings both inside the game (progressive scan) or on PCSX2's end aren't optimal leading to the tiny discrepancies occasionally found. As for Free Bird, I'll most likely save it till the end (at least of NTSC). Honestly I wouldn't expect anything big, I'm already facing some noticeable fatigue and have several tough and annoying songs to go, but really want to get the setlist finished in some capacity within a reasonable time frame.

Thanks a ton, means a lot. Sorry if the popoff/callout was a little aggressive, whammying a song like this for hours on end just puts you in some kind of mood lol, also really didn't think most of you were still around to see these anyway. You're welcome back INDAHOUSE whenever, just wipe your shoes on the mat please.

Not at all! My jaw hit the floor at the end of the last sustain - super hype. Totally understand the feeling at the end of the Jessica grind. I'm sure a good amount of us crazies still check SH every once in a while. Several folks closely watched JPrez's grind a few years back, so we'll see who else shows up in the comments here. Really happy you're tearing up the leaderboard.

The best way I can say to get better at whammy is what you see me do in basically all these videos, whammy lots of non-SP notes asap to ingrain the timing (especially different patterns like at the end of fast strumming/hopo sequences). If you're never missing the first whammy without much exp it probably means you're not starting early enough and your SP from early whammy will suffer. As for specific songs that are good squeezing practice, maybe Surrender since it has a lot of whammy and a good modest tempo for focusing on stretching front and back ends. At the end of the day you just have to learn how far you can abuse the windows for each squeeze and ingrain the timings, but the good news is that many songs/acts within the same song use the same timing windows so just like being good at asap/frame perfect whammy you'll get universally better with each squeeze/song you master and basically every one teaches you something new that comes into play somewhere else in the setlist.

It sure wasn't on that first run unfortunately lol

Somehow never had that trip me up even in the glazed state this song can put you in (especially fishing for that last tick), but the ones at 4:32 got me a couple times early on because I kept thinking the tempo was increasing and it just wasn't lol Nice job already taking GF. I would like to ask as always to please try and record runs if you can and are going for WR (particularly on songs that don't already have lag 1sts) to help set the precedence of lag proofing, because there are people still using it.

Strum them. Getting good/early whammy (or any at all for that matter) is near impossible in my experience if you dont. At least in the hmx trilogy games.

It's just rough for the same reason EHW is, timing things around fretting (especially without mechs) is hard. Just in case you aren't aware, you can't whammy before or on the frame you fret or strum to activate a note, unless under very specific conditions that aren't worth getting into (what I refer to as "buffered/1st frame" whammy in a lot of videos/SH descriptions). I, along with I'm pretty sure everyone else still struggle with it a lot from time to time, especially on certain patterns like grace notes where your inclination to whammy directly after strumming will bite you in the ass. If you've ever noticed in most runs I whammy on non-SP notes a lot (both strum and hopo), and contrary to popular belief it's not actually to get more points but just to practice and ingrain the timing even though I probably don't need to at this point.

@@nidecker1 I was writing my previous reply before yours showed up, but I would advise against this in most cases unless you have a large enough gap to comfortably fret early enough to disable the hopo front end. Otherwise you'll risk overstrumming on either the hopo after activating it or on the previous note's window.

For a 4 frame window with 2 whammies it needs to be, in stark contrast to the first SP phrase sustain for it you have to put on a petri dish under a microscope to see the hit window for.

I'm pretty sure he gave up on this one prematurely

@@EvilApple567 good. Lol

Nah, I would've hit it early if that were the case, simply allows you to preemptively fret O to reduce the execution from [fret+strum -> activate] to [strum -> activate], but is risky since you have to fret B within the 3 frame EHW after strumming on O. The early sustain completion only works on descending frets where this mechanic would obv be ineffective. Glad to see you back in action, very nice ticks on Last Child. Will be tough to beat without the extra squeeze.

Yeah, it's a pretty strange quirk of EHW, but I enjoy being able to implement tech to optimize/streamline things, even if the result is mild. Any idea if this works in GH3 as well?

@@EvilApple567That definitely doesn’t work in GH3. If it did I’m sure we could even use it for intro glitched ticks, IDK if this applies to any GH2 songs but it might.

@@KyleHUNK Hm, it's possible I suppose kzbin.info/www/bejne/qJuvi559ppuZiq8

Sacrelidge

Lol, can't deny it's a bummer to not have the leaderboards reflect the standings 99.99% of players play by (even with the not so intelligent parallels some draw between EHW and lag offset), but I've spent enough time and energy shouting into the void on that front. I'm not even sure the site is still moderated in any serious regard, but even if so there's really no grounds for how they're dealt with since the community never came to a proper consensus on how they should be (likely since it was pretty dead by the time it was found). I've just had to make peace with the situation and do the best I can with what we have.

@@EvilApple567 I can see why some people could be upset that EHW exists just based off the fact that it took so long to be discovered. But I think putting it in the same realm as lag is silly. Lag really feels like breaking the integrity of the game. EHW feels more similar to when a new discovery is found in a speed run that saves time and makes the older runs less optimal

@@AdamLikeGuitar Right, it's just how the base game engine functions, simple as that. If people don't wanna play GH2 (and most other entries lol) because it exists, that's fine and valid though. Honestly it's not like I'm super bias towards EHW as opposed to lag, there's basic logistics that separate the two. The big one being it is virtually impossible to police (at least intentional) EHW due to there being no visual cue when a strum is input. Not only can you not say one way or another whether it was or wasn't used in past runs, there's plenty of video evidence that it was (again, intentionally or not) making ruling it pointless. This is clearly not the case when it comes to lag offset, making ruling a non-issue. It's also a completely different ballpark of front end manipulation, where EHW is a flat 3 frames that only works up to note windows of a certain size (doesn't work for large hopo windows for example), and lag offset gives you up to 15 frames (which you can stack with EHW lol) and is why you can see such ridiculous scores with it. It's pretty night and day imo.

If you can manage to get anymore ticks out of this I'll be very impressed, otherwise best of luck on the last act double. Too much whammy for me to try and pioneer it after act 1.

@@EvilApple567 i'll try my best. Few months break from playing might have done miracles.

If it happens it happens, I'm just gonna keep focusing on individual song scores/records since that's what I find interesting. Not exactly looking forward to shelling out even more after a new guitar, ps2, and cap card for a way to deal with Trog if that day comes, also just not looking forward to having to play it again in general lol.