People still being around sinning in masses, and been forgiven (church terminology) are too different things.

Here's the full episode with Jared: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aWapi3WursaDnsU Don't forget to subscribe!

Excellent episode! Loved your questions, and loved Brother Halverson’s answers.

James and revelation claim boldly the importance of works in salvation. This could not please Luther. In my local lutheran baroque church (in fact in our garden), the chancel is decorated with a provocative quote of James about the works - the noble family Bredow were quite independant anyway. The earliest (almost) full canon is from Origenes (only revelation is not included).

I’ve just found your Channel. And I’ve seen (heard) quite a few already. I love to hear one from Europe, but mostly from … UK. England 😉. I understand that you live close to the Preston Temple. But where were you born and bread? I’m a Dane 🇩🇰 and served my mission in the nothern England 43 yrs ago. I Think I reconize your English. I love this Channel 🕊️❤️🕊️❤️THANKS

I’m not sure why “surprising”’is in the heading of this video. Most of this stuff is well known.

Love your content! Thanks for making a difference. I'll keep pointing people your way.

I saw Jared at Costco on Saturday. I didn't bug him because I'm sure he gets bugged a lot. :)

So here's a thought which has been on my mind of late - speaking of his comment about online communities as a salve for loneliness - These online communities seem to amplify fear, and foster divisiveness - perhaps due to the absence of normal social checks, and (real) diversity, and the presence of anonymity. Each community seems to be striving to build "utopia" (Greek for perfect place). But this is based on their perception of utopia, which inevitably is someone else's dystopia (bad place). The result then is increasing chaos among these warring factions. It seems too that many of the more rational voices are simply choosing silence (the "Dark Forest" idea). So, my question then, is it possible for a more rational community to form around the idea of pursuing "Kalostopia" (good, sufficient, or beautiful place)?

I've written it once, and I'll write again. This podcast is criminally underrated. Great content as always 👌

I hope you found value in this episode with Jared! Don't forget to subscribe for more inspiring episodes every Monday.

But I don't wanna wrestle with hard questions! It's hard! 😂

Looks like it’s more of a warning ‼️ I don’t share your beliefs however I wouldn’t knock on doors of people I do not know.

I just got back from my mission and I actually am excited for this movie. (Even though I hate horror) from the trailer I actually like how they have represented the Sister Missionaries, and it genuinely feels pretty respectful. They have outfits, hair, even the proselyting bags down. You can tell they put a ton of attention to detail to the creation of this movie. And from the trailer the missionaries seem to be made out as attentive and smart, such as not entering his home unless an adult female was present (unfortunately people lie) noticing the candle, and trying to get out of the situation. -I had an experience on my mission where we were teaching a man who said his wife was inside, luckily she was, she was an older woman that only spoke Lebanese and was in very poor health, so she had a hard time moving and did not meet us at the door. We had no reason to believe he was lying, and he wasn’t, I can’t imagine what these Sisters would have been thinking, knowing they unknowingly put themselves in such a terrible situation. But as a recently returned missionary I don’t know if I will be able to watch this movie as soon as it comes out. It is way too real. Missionaries see a lot of terrible things, and unfortunately many are put in danger, but luckily the church has implemented so many great trainings, resources, and procedures to do everything they can to insure the safety of their Missionaries and other members. These Sisters Missionaries are young girls, average aged 19-26, often living in foreign places, speaking a different language, companions with someone they just met, meeting with dozens of strangers a week, hoping that situations like this will only happen in movies. While it is very interesting to see this representation it might take me a while to actually WATCH it, I currently have way too many loved ones and friend out on missions at the moment 😂

Happened to come across this video. Felt prompted to watch.

The nemenhah records throw a spanner in the works. Worth reading the entire book

Once again, the need for direct revelation from God being desperately needed in order to answer extremely significant concerns. I look at the wide world of Christianity with disagreements on this or that, and it’s as though they cry out for answers from God and yet choose to listen to nice-sounding claims that they more or less agree with. As Isaiah prophesied in chapter 30:10-11: “Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits: Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.”

Good stuff

It's amazing how willing people are to fight for the idea that the Bible is the only word of God when the details of its compilation and what is contained in it was such an imperfect process.

This is great! What program/aoftware do you use to make the screen on screen for this video?

You can talk about other mortals all you want. But God is in all of us-especially when we invite Him. He rules our very thougjts, and emotions, and ideas, so it still stands that God decided.

Very informative. Keep up the good work.

Spoiler alert: Same God

Even the great Patriarch Jacob wrestled with an angel. Thanks for helping me with the wrestle of trying to understand this horrific event in Utah history.

No new info here. Local Mormon leaders planned and directed the massacre. There were extenuating circumstances, altho most So. Utah citizens did not and would not have participated had they known of the plans. John D Lee was involved and was allowed by the other participants to take sole blame. BY was not directly involved altho he helped to set a political and religious tone one might characterize as Danite. MMM is a lesson in overzealousness and warlike mentality-- a mindset that typefies Utah politics today.

Critics often place too much blame of Brigham Young IMO and not enough on President Buchanan. Lots of people don't realize that in 1852 a similar episode happened: federal officials butted heads with the Mormons, And they fled to DC claiming that the Mormons were in a state of rebellion. Rather than simply believing them, like what President Buchanan did, President Millard Fillmore actually investigated their claims. After his investigation he found out these federal officials were a bunch of bold face liars and he sided with the Mormons. It's one of the few cases where a U.S. president gave the Mormons a fair shake. If president Buchanan had emulated his predecessor, Brigham Young never would have felt the need to put Utah on high alert and the Mountain Meadows Massacre never would have happened.

Catch the full episode here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r2rafYyOpNapd5ofeature=shared and don't forget to Subscribe!

God is concerned with both justice AND mercy.

Pie scented candles to make people think there is fresh home cooked pie in the oven is the most evil and malicious thing I have ever scene. Kidnapping and such is bad too.

1) The so-called rumors in Cedar City that she glossed over are more likely rationalizations of Mormons after the fact to justify what they did. The Baker Fancher party was largely women and children that had traversed nearly the entire state of Utah up to this point. They knew they were in a hostile environment (as they knew that they could not trade with locals) and likely wouldn't be causing trouble. They also knew they were outnumbered and were convinced to surrender all their weapons a mere days later. To give historical credence to the idea that the party was rabblerousing and causing trouble is victim blaming at its finest. 2) Janiece said, ‘Word matter,’ but it doesn’t sound like she buys her own premise entirely. She seems to give church leaders a pass on rhetoric for being solely rhetoric but seems to almost forget entirely that words are being sent in letter form and messenger form. The choice of the messenger is a conscious decision, whether it’s a Brigham Young letter, or a George A Smith, because the recipient eg Haight or the people Janiece suspects Brigham sent away will internalize their own perspectives while reading a letter. Brigham Young knew this, just as Pauline epistles have different tones for different audiences. 3) I place blame at the feet of Brigham Young, not because of Mountain Meadows, but because of two things that happened after the fact: a. Brigham Young took part in the cover up, and witnesses were brought in to lie about John D. Lee’s involvement to make him the scapegoat when Brigham Young could have stopped it. b. Less than a month later, on October 6th a similar incident called the Aiken Party Massacre took place in the same manner. The church found no need to send out a bulletin to all local leaders to stop the violence, instead they hid the massacres, stole their wears, cattle, and money, and covered it up. We can talk about preventative measures until we’re blue in the face and give the church a pass for Mountain Meadows, but Aiken? Aiken is evidence that the church didn’t care at all about what had happened and were not interested in prevention. 4) Councils. The councils all voted to go along with the massacre. Only one man from Kannarraville, openly questioned what was to be done. Saying councils are important, kinda misses so much about what has been said about Mountain Meadows from the psychological standpoint, namely group think and obedience to authority. In Mountain Meadows, the councils were rubber stamps, just as local congregations rubber stamp all their ecclesiastical leaders. 5) It is not possible to conclusively determine that it Brigham Young didn’t order it. Brigham had George A Smith all over Southern Utah preaching sermons with violent rhetoric. It is not implausible to think that George A Smith put the so-called bee in Isaac Haight’s bonnet. I am more convinced by Will Bagley’s analysis on what Brigham Young said at the memorial set up by Johnston’s Army, that revenge was his, and he had taken a little. 6) Her characterization of John D. Lee’s reporting to Brigham seems far-fetched. For starters, he went with Charles A Hopkins, an older man at the time that convinced John D Lee to go along with the massacre and actually ended up as a clubber of women and children. Hopkins reason for going a long with it was because he believing in doing what was right and letting the consequence follow. He would not have lied to Brigham about what happened unless he was told that Brigham needed plausible deniability. Furthermore we know that Joseph Fielding Smith as church historian had evidence that he hid from historians showing that the church knew what was going on and was content to cover it up. 7) Her characterization of John D. Lee not taking it like a man seems cruel to me. John D. Lee barely put up a defense at trial, he didn’t want Brigham deposed at all and wouldn’t allow his defense attorney the ability to push blame on others more responsible than he was. He was a true believer and considered himself an adopted and sealed son of Brigham Young, sometimes signing his name as John Doyle Lee Young. He loved Brigham and he felt that the feelings were mutual and that Brigham wouldn’t allow anything bad to happen to him just as he stood trial and protected Brigham. But Lee learned he was a patsy for Brigham and the church, someone that Brigham brought into his good graces and used him as a bargaining chip when the time came. Which was always Brigham’s MO. Brigham wanted the Martin and Willie Handcart companies to not wait, because he needed cannon fodder for Johnston’s Army. When the time came to save them or his cigars and liquor at Ft. Bridger, Brigham didn’t hesitate to save his accoutrements. And when he tried to blame Willard Richards and John Taylor for sending the handcarts too late, Taylor responded in a letter, ‘I wouldn’t sacrifice lives for groceries.’ John D. Lee was no coward, despite being the only fall guy for the incident. 8) The narrative does not completely change between 1875 and 1876. Reading John D. Lee’s autobiography which he wrote after his conviction and before his execution, he gets brutally honest in a confessions on a deathbed manner, that he was angry with Brigham for what transpired. It is not invented out of whole cloth. 9) Having been to the site and seen what is written on the plaque at the church owned memorial, it’s as if the church wants you to think that a wagon train went to sleep and died of carbon monoxide poisoning in the night. There is no mention who is responsible, there is no mention of how it happened. Just simply that over 100 innocent people died on the site. The church should donate the site to either the survivors of the US government as a national monument of some sort, because they aren’t being fully transparent. They call it a tragedy but don’t really apologize. They say Mormons were involved, but they don’t say that the radicalization of ideas they created like blood atonement, and obedience to the prophet had any bearing on why those men did what they did. The church needs to fully step away from this history and try to craft their own narrative. There is a history here that is invaluable. For Americans we all need the unvarnished history of how a religious sect left the United States as alienated sexual deviants over time became one of the most patriotic groups in the country. The benefits would help us to better understand how to inoculate ourselves from things like radical Islam, xenophobia, MAGA, and other fundamental and radical ideologies.

Well that would be a good question if a god existed. Since over 4,000 man made gods have been concocted by men looking for answers, and there’s no proof for any of them, it’s safe to say “Who Cares”?

Thanks, has someone seen the correlation of Donald Trump's charge of "high crimes and misdemeanors" and "engaging in insurrection or rebellion against the United States" after claims that his Save America Rally speech on January 6, 2021 as well as his rhetoric about election fraud earlier, incited the alleged violence that broke out when his supporters(with other likely instigators) were reported to be storming the Capitol building the same day during the election certification? This with possible sermons like February 18, 1852 Where President Young stated "Whenever popular fury has been directed against us, no power in the government has been found potent enough to afford protection, and what is still more astonishing, honorable enough to yield redress, nor has any effort succeeded in bringing to justice those individuals who had perpetrated such fearful crimes. No!" Some media and political methods never change.

Two curious points; one, how would Hans Mill massacre played into this, and two, were the Mormons were not in the United States at the time of this event.

Really insightful interview on a topic not often covered - thanks! 😁

According to Richard Turley’s book my Great, Great Grandfather, Calvin Pendleton a counselor in the Cedar City Stake Presidency tried to dissuade the militia from attacking the wagon train and advised the Baker-Fancher party to turn back. Ultimately a terrible atrocity.

Nobody lifted a finger without ol’racist, misogynistic Brigham telling them what to do in Kingdom Brigham…

Really enjoyed this. Janice's insights into this topic are great, and I especially appreciate her testimony of accepting and dealing with hard things. History is always a challenge. We lack context and perspective to fully understand, ("understanding is a three-edged sword; your side, my side and the truth that lies between."). But even with imperfect understanding, there's so much we can learn, even from the hard things.

I’m 27 min in, so forgive me if this comes up later; but is there any truth to the wagon trains coming out of Missouri? If so; then this really would have been a perfect storm. Early saints preparing to protect themselves against a federal government, that as far as the saints are concerned, might be coming to eradicate them. Tensions are at a peak; and here comes pioneers from the state that was tied in n with so much death and destruction.

The persecution that preceded tis event is what caused it. Even reasonable people lash out under such extreme abuse. The unreasonable took it too far. Don't judge the LDS church by it's worst actors. Your worst actions are not who you are and should not solely define you.

I am amazed at the incredible content coming from saints around the world! I'm grateful to have come across your channel Brother!

My ancestors from the Martin company were housed at John d lees house during mmm

This was so interesting and insightful. Thank you, Janiece and Ben.

The link for Janiece's book is in the description, it's an absolutely fascinating read. Despite the heavy subject, I hope you found this interesting and, eventually, faith-affirming. Don't forget to subscribe!

I saw spoilers and apparently one missionary dies. Great

❤

I read this guys twitter. So weird to fit a face to it but it’s some of the best LDS content on there. Love this.

Definitely going to read this. I wish it was on audible

President Ballard shared this experience with a small group of Stake leaders in a training I was part of a decade or so ago. The feeling in that room was unforgettable. Love that man.

You don't have miracles yourself in your life? I know I do. Apostles works are what they do as their calling not miscellaneous miracles. Miracles happen around us not just around and by apostles. We just need to recognize them.