21 күн бұрын
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@grahamthomason8796 34 минут бұрын
For those who don't know, 7/4 is not an interval in quarter comma meantone. It is far better approximated in that tuning than in 12-TET, but the approximation is 25*sqrt(5)/32. In a standard 12-note QCMT tuning, this interval can only be found between two pairs of notes in each octave. Interestingly, the interval is formed between, e.g. the note typically used as Bb and the note typically used at A#; in a sense it "borrows its flatness" from the chain of two flattened (compared to 12TET) major thirds. It's very much like the JI interval 225/128, which you get by ascending a just major second (9/8) and then a just augmented fifth (25/16). QCMT merely replaces that just major second with a tempered, slightly smaller major second (sqrt (5)/2). 225/128 is just one "marvel comma" (225/224) above 7/4, which is equal to 224/128
@ClaudiMeneghin Минут бұрын
Yes of course: fractions always represent their tempered counterparts, in this video 🙂
@Geopholus 45 минут бұрын
For more completions of # 14 (Bachs art of Fugue) check out many of the entries I have in my playlist (Geopholus) called: Art of Fugue, There You will find many of the better completions, including those by Zoltan Goncz, Tudor Saveanu', Maria Scharweiss, Lenny Cavallero, The Diasneb, Geir Oyvind Eskeland, Lionel Rogg, Kimiko Ishizaka.V Grayzinov, Davitt Moroney, Lorenzo Ghielml, Helmut Walcha, F Busoni, Eloise Bella Kohn,.....etc etc
@Lucius_Chiaraviglio 20 сағат бұрын
I just had a crazy idea for your next musical mad science experiment (and it potentially includes 50EDO): See if it is possible to retune some of the quarter-tone (24EDO, "diatonicized chromatic")11L 2s (L/s = 2) scale works of Ivan Wyschnegradsky into other tuning systems that support 11L 2s and have a good approximation and single circle of 11/8 (or 16/11). Plausible candidate tuning systems on the soft side are 37EDO (L/s = 3/2, and has a super-good 11/8), 61EDO (L/s = 5/3, but 61EDO is big enough to be pushing the limits of plausibility), and 50EDO (L/s = 4/3 -- might be too soft). Plausible candidate tuning systems on the hard side are 35EDO (L/s = 3), 59EDO (L/s = 7/3, but 59EDO is big enough to be pushing the limits of plausibility), and 46EDO (L/s = 4/1 -- might be too hard). Most of Ivan Wyschnegradsky's quarter-tone pieces are for 2 pianos tuned a quarter tone apart (in a few cases with other instruments); he did have a couple of quarter-tone pianos and even a quarter-tone harmonium built, but was not very satisfied with them (based on quarter-tone piano photos and video footage, I am going to hazard a guess that this was for ergonomic reasons); I think that with the way he wrote this music, it really does need the resonance and timbre of pianos. The easiest pieces to deal with in this way would probably be a couple of his 24 Preludes (my favorites are III, VII, and VIII, but that is not an exclusive list of good choices).
@ClaudiMeneghin 20 сағат бұрын
Seems very interesting 🙂 not very simple, though... are there midi's available for Wyschnegradsky's pieces ? I must avow I'm not very acquainted with them.
@Lucius_Chiaraviglio 19 сағат бұрын
@@ClaudiMeneghin (KZbin ate my post -- trying again 7th time, and splitting my post up into pieces so that I can see which one it doesn't like.) If you look up a certain music organization named after Greek mythological figures responsible for inspiring artists that also has sheet music but that KZbin's censoring algorithm seems to think is a terrorist organization or something, and there you look up Ivan Wyschnegradsky, they have several of his compositions. I looked at the 24 Preludes, and they offer several formats, including MIDI as well as some formats displayable as sheet music, although I haven't tested their output myself.
@Lucius_Chiaraviglio 19 сағат бұрын
@@ClaudiMeneghin It is also worth going to Wikipedia and looking him up to get a list of compositions, and then searching for them and listening to them on KZbin. These compositions (other than the early ones in 12EDO or 12WT) are not just somewhat xenharmonic like something that was originally written in quarter-comma meantone or some well-temperament -- they are seriously xenharmonic out of the box.
@Lucius_Chiaraviglio 19 сағат бұрын
@@ClaudiMeneghin For the 24 Preludes, I would recommend kzbin.info/www/bejne/gJq9ZnitiNZ0mpo for an introduction that has the English translation of his own writing on diatonicized chromaticism followed by a complete set of the 24 Preludes well-performed with sheet music so that you can see the dynamic and tempo markings (not sure how much of that makes it through in the MIDI files or even in the MuseScore sheet music). The only downside of that one is that reading the music as 2 12EDO piano parts for instruments tuned a quarter-tone apart might be problematic. In that case, a subset of the 24 Preludes are available (after you scroll down some ways) as individual videos on the channel www.youtube.com/@musicaignotus/videos which have sheet music written for an actual quarter-tone piano. Ivan Wyschnegradsky used a non-standard semiflat symbol -- instead of looking like a (possibly narrower) backwards flat, it looks like a normal flat that has the bottom peeled open so that it looks like a cross between a normal flat and an 'h'.
@mirondenisov2228 Күн бұрын
Wonderful composition!
@mirondenisov2228 Күн бұрын
So beautiful ❤
@lumen-saxty-sax Күн бұрын
What exact notes do you use in the diminished 7th chords in measure 9?
@pbazant 2 күн бұрын
Great work. What guides your microtonal choices for the chromatic notes?
@ClaudiMeneghin Күн бұрын
In this case, the original spelling 🙂
@pbazant 2 күн бұрын
Fun fact: this chorale has actually been composed by a 20th century composer whose name is also J. S. Bach. ;-) One of my favourites. Your arrangement sounds gorgeous!
@ClaudiMeneghin Күн бұрын
Thank you 😀
@Archaeotonic 2 күн бұрын
Love that one edostep wobble
@Wheatly_Portal2 2 күн бұрын
They all sound so good, but the detuned sounds are the best. Would transition that to some sore of minor sus chord?
@ClaudiMeneghin 2 күн бұрын
Well, I don't think so... major thirds seem strong to me. But I could be wrong 😉
@Lucius_Chiaraviglio 3 күн бұрын
50EDO somehow sounds right for this kind of music, and it was proposed as a tuning system back in the early Baroque. A lot of common intervals are a bit flat by not too different amounts. Although the fifth is even flatter than 31EDO or quarter-comma meantone, it seems to be close enough to approach a second optimum of 112/75 that is close to 19EDO. Too bad it didn't get much use -- too hard to build the instruments.
@TheSilverShadow17 4 күн бұрын
Microtonal Tritones but they're Endlessly Rising next?
@ClaudiMeneghin 4 күн бұрын
Why not ? I'll give it a try 🙂
@GiaMeziridis 4 күн бұрын
Very authentic sound and tempo, great playing.
@lewiji 4 күн бұрын
Masterfully done!
@GrazianoSigaudo 7 күн бұрын
😊 ciao Claudio, sono ester
@liamnilssong 9 күн бұрын
Wow, never seen this arrangement, very impressed!
@BenBefg 9 күн бұрын
Sounds like Segovia in his young years.
@giovannizanini196 9 күн бұрын
Ah grande! Nice muvement di hands
@juanmiguelsuarez 9 күн бұрын
Awesome!
@thomasdastillung4097 10 күн бұрын
Bravo 🎉❤
@OzanYarman 10 күн бұрын
This was great! Bravo! :)
@zinxlifculezef8919 14 күн бұрын
What system do you use to write down this music?
@ClaudiMeneghin 13 күн бұрын
Thank you for your interest and appreciation 🙂 I use the following free software: 1) Huygens Fokker Scala to tune files (see below which ones); 2) SynthFont (in combination with soundfonts) to play the files tuned by Scala; The files in 1) are text files essentially representing pitches and durations. I set them up by means of an electronic spreadsheet, often introducing a bit of Lombard Swing (first notes shorter) and some randomisation :) Here's a link to Huygens Fokker Scala software: www.huygens-fokker.org/scala/ The underlying logic is definitely an "abc" one, rather than WYSIWYG.
@originalname7176 14 күн бұрын
even after 1 year this is still my #1 26 edo song ever. You are a great compositor❤
@music-zv6je 15 күн бұрын
stretched octave!!!!
@mirondenisov2228 15 күн бұрын
Wonderful
@tikoflute 15 күн бұрын
Permainan melodi gitar klasik yang bagus sekali 👍🎸🎵🎶
@Archaeotonic 15 күн бұрын
I'm gonna try making it in xenpaper
@benilak 16 күн бұрын
I like it. Admittedly I don’t hear the microtonal aspect all that much, maybe just the harmonies carry a slightly different texture, like playing on a slightly de-tuned piano maybe. Question about how this was transposed: so if you were to take every note in the original piece and just “round” it to the next nearest frequency available in 31edo, would you end up with what we hear here? Or is it more nuanced than that?
@ClaudiMeneghin 15 күн бұрын
Thank you for your interest and appreciation 🙂 It's slightly more nuanced: the size of 31-edo fifth (696.774 ¢) drives the process: each note is translated in terms of number of fifths (and octaves, of course), then it gets calculated into 31-edo by multiplying 696.774 ¢ for the number of fifths, then taking the remainder modulo 1200. Finally the octave is properly adjusted.
@Archaeotonic 16 күн бұрын
funky
@takoushi1 17 күн бұрын
This chain of responses has been great to read and absorb, as I learn more and more about this side of music and my desire to bridge the gap between mathematics and music..something I have been trying to connect since I was an infant due to my love for both from an early age. My University education gave only a glimpse into this corner of ‘music’ for me and I am grateful that I live in a time where I can unite historic knowledge from around the world and connect my loves for maths and music. I will read Richard Merrick’s work while I continue my journey.
@Archaeotonic 17 күн бұрын
Basically 12edo but wobblier
@Archaeotonic 17 күн бұрын
Cool
@Lucius_Chiaraviglio 17 күн бұрын
Sounds pretty good, except that when the oboe hits F♯ or G♯ above the treble staff, it sounds noticeably too flat, and when it hits A♭ it sounds noticeably too sharp. This isn't surprising since 19EDO has that property, but strangely, when the oboe hits the B♭ above that, it DOESN'T sound too sharp. And the other instruments don't seem to have this problem. Must have something to do with the other notes being played at the same time.
@romeolz 17 күн бұрын
This was probably played back with soundfonts instead of instrument synthesizers, some soundfonts have a problem where all the samples used for playback aren't intonated properly
@Lucius_Chiaraviglio 17 күн бұрын
@romeolz What do sound fonts do differently from normal synthesizers (and they don't sound like samples)? I wonder if that explains some other strange glitches I have heard in some other videos (by various people) where the sound doesn't seem to match the intended note?
@romeolz 17 күн бұрын
@@Lucius_Chiaraviglio soundfont is a specific type of file format for a pack of instrument samples and how they behave and are played back. (.sfz, .sf2) some of the samples can be out of tune compared to the others
@Lucius_Chiaraviglio 17 күн бұрын
@romeolz An awful lot of them sure don't sound like samples of real instruments. Maybe the distributor tried to hard to make all of the notes uniform in tone quality?
@romeolz 17 күн бұрын
@@Lucius_Chiaraviglio soundfonts don't exactly have a reputation of sounding realistic, though modern sample libraries like kontakt are nearly indistinguishable from real instruments
@smithird 18 күн бұрын
Promising considering 18edo's fifth is quite finicky to deal with
@smithird 18 күн бұрын
Why you gotta do the F♯ dirty man
@ClaudiMeneghin 18 күн бұрын
😎
@Lucius_Chiaraviglio 19 күн бұрын
I was just thinking: Since you can play the guitar quite well, and you like to experiment with different temperaments, what if you got an adjustable fret microtonal guitar like those most often featured on Tolgahan Çoğulu's Microtonal Guitar channel? Then you wouldn't have to worry about trying to get synthesized instruments to sound good (or you could even retain some of them for the accompaniment track and do the solo yourself).
@ClaudiMeneghin 19 күн бұрын
Thank you 😃I have planned something alike indeed 😉I hope I'll have it ready in the next months 🙂
@Lucius_Chiaraviglio 18 күн бұрын
@@ClaudiMeneghin Looking forward to it.
@richarddannelley8400 19 күн бұрын
Pretty busy
@taylordiclemente5163 19 күн бұрын
Gorgeous!
@taylordiclemente5163 19 күн бұрын
Music to my ears
@smithird 19 күн бұрын
Cool
@nggyu-nglyd-ngraady 20 күн бұрын
Fun fact: 12edo, 60edo and 72edo have the same fifth.
@Lucius_Chiaraviglio 20 күн бұрын
The flatter fifths that Bach used were quarter-comma meantone, so even though C minor gets out of the quarter-comma meantone zone for the well-tempered tuning systems of the time, it's no surprise that this fits well. Since you have 12EDO and 19EDO incoming, I am going to guess in advance that 12EDO will sound not bad (if a bit bland), since the flat side of the well-tempered tunings of the day tended to include Pythagorean and even Kirnberger fifths, but that 19EDO may sound a bit rough (although mitigated by the 19EDO fifth getting out of that uncomfortable zone between 3/2 and 112/75).
@ClaudiMeneghin 20 күн бұрын
Well, 4 quarter-comma (flatter) fifths, together with 8 pythagorean (sharper) ones in Werckmeister 3 WT... or at least I guess so 😉
@Lucius_Chiaraviglio 19 күн бұрын
@@Symbioticism That's why I said the flatter fifths, not all fifths. Werckmeister, Rameau, and Kirnberger well-tempered tuning systems include quarter-comma meantone fifths among the natural notes; Bach had his own temperament which is not well documented but presumably also had quarter-comma meantone fifths in this region. To make the circle of fifths close, each one also included some Pythagorean and/or Kirnberger fifths, mostly in the sharp/flat zone.
@Lucius_Chiaraviglio 19 күн бұрын
@Symbioticism "Presumably" is not doing so much heavy lifting, since other well-tempered systems of the time regularly had fifths flattened by a quarter of a syntonic comma (or even more), including Kirnberger's; Johann Kirnberger was a student of Bach. These temperaments were designed to get pure major thirds in some regions of the circle of fifths. Doing so within a 12 note circle of fifths mathematically requires flattening some fifths at least as much as a quarter of a syntonic comma (you can also flatten some to a greater extent and combine them with less-flattened fifths). Well-tempered systems falling short of achieving pure major thirds (even including equal temperament) started to become popular after Bach's time, but weren't very popular before then (with the possible exception of some instrument consorts lacking a keyboard instrument) even though they had existed for some time. And look up Bach Temperament.
@Lucius_Chiaraviglio 18 күн бұрын
I should mention that Some of the reconstructions of Bach's temperament (Lehman, Hill, Swich, Louie, etc.) use fifths flattened in the range 1/5 to 1/6 of a syntonic comma, so not all the way to a quarter comma, but getting close.
@hoon_sol 18 күн бұрын
It's hilarious to "guess" that 12-TET won't sound bad; of course it won't sound bad, it's literally the objectively ideal tuning system. The 12-TET scale is literally the _only_ equal-tempered scale that contains all seven of the basic consonant intervals to a good approximation (within one percent) _and_ contains more consonant intervals than dissonant intervals.
@mic-226 20 күн бұрын
Cats are Liquid ABP Prototype
@pavelbatalov657 20 күн бұрын
Thank God! Finally!
@ClaudiMeneghin 20 күн бұрын
Thanks to you for your interest and appreciation 😀 PS 19 and 12 are forthcoming 😉
@Archaeotonic 21 күн бұрын
Its got that characteristic wobble of flattones
@ClaudiMeneghin 20 күн бұрын
More tunings are available 😎kzbin.info/www/bejne/eqKbpZKpoLKIg68
@AiOinc1 22 күн бұрын
Me if you asked me to play this song
@ClaudiMeneghin 22 күн бұрын
This is not a «Cantabile», so I won't 😉Please try this one instead 😎kzbin.info/www/bejne/fnvKZnmnat-IZsk
@ClaudiMeneghin 17 күн бұрын
Or maybe this newer version of the Third-Comma Air: kzbin.infoin78uOeAa08 🙂
@gal749 22 күн бұрын
i cant believe you arent a white smiley face in real life like your pfp
@rainbowbloom575 23 күн бұрын
What does syntonic comma adjustment mean??
@ClaudiMeneghin 22 күн бұрын
It means using the best approximation of 5/4 in the given tuning system, even if it doesn't match 4 fifths. For instance in 53-edo (essntially the same as Pythagorean), the best approximation of 5/4 is a diminished fourth, so an example of syntonic comma adjustment is using C-Fb-G (0, 384.906 701.887 cents) as a major third instead of C-E-G (0, 407.547, 701.887 cents) 🙂
@rainbowbloom575 17 күн бұрын
@@ClaudiMeneghin thanks! one question, which program do you use to make these arrangements? i've been interested in making microtonal music but the amount of software that ive seen people suggest is a tad overwhelming, lol
@ClaudiMeneghin 15 күн бұрын
Thank you for your interest and appreciation 🙂 I use the following free software: 1) Huygens Fokker Scala to tune files (see below which ones); 2) SynthFont (in combination with soundfonts) to play the files tuned by Scala; The files in 1) are text files essentially representing pitches and durations. I set them up by means of an electronic spreadsheet, often introducing a bit of Lombard Swing (first notes shorter) and some randomisation :) Here's a link to Huygens Fokker Scala software: www.huygens-fokker.org/scala/ The underlying logic is definitely an "abc" one, rather than WYSIWYG.
@LeReubzRic 23 күн бұрын
This is the only 50edo piece I can find
@ClaudiMeneghin 22 күн бұрын
Here're more 😎 kzbin.info/www/bejne/bZDOg4KqjMhnidk
@OzanYarman 24 күн бұрын
I enjoyed it very much dear Claudi. Bravo.