$0 to $1 Million: The Raw Numbers Behind Indie Success

[@nah82201]

This is a one of the best GDC videos I’ve seen on running an indie studio. Thanks to the presenters and GDC!

[@Patangy]

That point about not bothering with the smaller stores is so true. I've sold roughly ~10k copies on Steam and about 4 copies on the smaller stores... haven't even bothered collecting it.

[@john_v4939]

I was thinking the same . Do you mind telling what's your game name ?

[@whythough8441]

@@john_v4939 I second this question

[@homeyworkey]

whats ur game?

[@blankpanda9334]

it's been 2 years already. so what's your game?

[@TheChronozoan]

Lol I don't believe this. "I earned money and because it wasn't as much as I think I DESERVE I didn't take it"

[@kaname110]

Thanks to Richard and Tanya for such an open and honest talk! Really important to many studios have some numbers to compare and see where we stand. Thank you guys!

[@Dreaded4Saken]

"the break even point when you spend no money is not very high" lol

[@munk_ken]

I had to chuckle a little bit, at @47:33 in addition to some light accounting, that is exactly how I do any projection for any business project idea that I handle.

[@Frank_havre_creation]

Hyped! Wow, thanks folks this is honestly a must watch for indie Devs!

[@Amelia_PC]

It's interesting. They calculated taxes, fees and cuts after the game development. I was calculating taxes BEFORE any launching because it'd help to see how much the game would cost. It's weird to see smart people like them forgetting important things that can sink their business.

[@TimVogel87]

Amelia PC indeed, also investments, loans, tax refunds or cash injections should not be seen as “revenue sources”. Overal informative GDC talk though!

[@Amelia_PC]

@@TimVogel87 Good point! (Yup, it's a great talk with brave devs. Loved it!)

[@MrAbrazildo]

They did. But they said those are only guesses, anyone is able to calculating months ahead - this would be misleading.

[@Amelia_PC]

​@@MrAbrazildo Can't see how planning business is misleading. Even for crowdfunding, you have to have a business plan. I've helped some people (still in the entertainment area, but in comics), warning them about taxes and other costs before they find a fair price for their final product. Of course, they were veterans. It helped because they knew the whole process. I suggest good channels as Valuetainment as a start for business. From there, you know who you can contact to help with your projects. The right consultancy is overlooked (nope, I'm an artist, not a consultant. But I have an IP and I'm signing contracts with companies for partnership. I strongly recommend a lawyer and some financial consultancy when things become bigger). I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors :) The world needs more successful game devs.

[@MiketheNerdRanger]

Dammit, I think you've ruined the video.

[@andrewshandle]

Overall, I think this was a very interesting presentation, but some of the numbers seemed a bit off. Even though it's a year old, the 40K developer salary for Montreal seems incredibly low. I do a lot of work in Toronto and starting IT people in most industries make 75+ CAD. Also, while Richard lamented the taxes, if 45%-ish of his monthly burn was taxes, that means they did very well those months. Corporate Taxes are only calculated on profits and are about 27% in Montreal, so if you remove those from the burn they are making about 300% of their burn in profit every month. Most companies would kill for a 10% Profit Margin and they far exceed that. They're an amazing success story.

[@jarkokoo]

Yeah, 40k CAD, which translates to roughly 27,6k Eur, is something I got when I started in the industry over 10 years ago. And a year from that I made already roughly 48K CAD. Where I live we have roughly the same salaries as in Canada as well as the cost of living. Canada maybe having a bit better salaries and higher cost of living as there are way bigger studios and cities, but roughly the same I'd say. So yeah, sounds a bit low. As someone who has a family with children and a mortage to pay, I wouldn't manage to work with that low salary in one of the most stressful industries out there. And as a comparison: I'm atm working in a company founded 2 years ago and our salaries are very competent, roughly the same as in bigger studios here, so... yeah. :) Interesting talk nevertheless. I really dig their view on quality of life. I think it's super important that new companies think like this - it's the only real way towards the change away from the "crunch culture".

[@andrewshandle]

@@jarkokoo I guess she may have meant it was the average salary of all their employees, but with only five employees it sounded like all of them were technical which will demand a higher salary so that doesn't really fly. Canada does underpay IT compared to a lot of places in the US like New York or San Francisco), but not by that much. Just looking at Google a dev with a few years Java experience is making at about 70K and entry level is 50K or more. Developers have weird salary trajectories, we tend to make a lot early and it flattens out over time (if you stay as a pure developer), mainly because there is so much competition for good developers.

[@GameArts1]

Good talk. This shows how tough game dev can be if your in 4+ teams, there is a lot more number crunching - especially salary compared to the effort (will it be equal pay/who will get extra money, If person 1 is mainly on game A and 2 on Game B how will salary be compared by a hit and fail, how will the game revenue be split among the people on general etc). Yeah I rather work in a team of 2 max 3 - with near equal revenue split.

[@AlexVoxel]

This is a great talk about what running a gamedev studio in real life is like. It is not something often talked about!

[@MitchCurtis]

At 33:25 Richard talks about how he doesn't put his game on tiny stores because of their unfavourable contracts. Anyone know examples of such contract terms that he would be referring to?

[@kylerwk]

Usually it's the fact that the contract was written by a lawyer hired by the small store, and they wrote the contract to entirely protect the store, and no dev ever actually hired a lawyer to push back against the legal language used. So there could be some language in the contract that says the small dev is technically liable for something potentially really damaging.

[@beerbatov]

Im in a position where my coding skills are above average but not really top notch, but I lack any graphical skills :( - Should i try to further my skills in coding and find someone for the front end or should I find a few passionate guys in my city to create an indie title and just be well rounded in everything a la jack-of-all-trades?

[@BrunoSilva-rr6cb]

I'm not​ a specialist​ or something but imo you should focus on what you are good at and become really good than be average in many areas

[@msissler]

No man is an island! I developed my game with a friend. He did the programming, I handled the UI / UX and all graphics. Streamline your passion and time. Find others to come on board.

[@llamadasinrespuesta4631]

I think gaming is not for you, but if you want to try...

[@SuperParadine]

The same story man, I have chosen the way to create everything by myself, so now I have created about 20 games as a solo developer. I bet most of my last games look better than my first games:)

[@kathoden]

Have a go at it. It seems difficult at first (it is), but don't stop, doesn't matter if you fail, you've at least gained XP so you don't make the same mistakes twice. Good luck and cheers

[@SunnyValleyStudio]

Great talk. Thanks a lot for the projection spreadsheet!

[@TuangDheandhanoo]

Anyone know what's the font she's using on the header here 10:09? Thank you so much.

[@kairon156]

While I'm unlikely to start my own company I like the idea of not working after a certain time, Unless it's their own stuff.

[@xbluemx]

Preventing crunch is KEY

[@kairon156]

@@xbluemx I've heard a few stories and crunch time is not fun for anyone involved.

[@scorpiusjones5436]

Lotta great nuggets of information in here. Thanks, well done 👏🏻

[@JustDaZack]

Very valuable insight right here!

[@AcrylicPixel]

This is super helpful thanks!

[@chrisSandersASX]

Good attitude

[@jgtogi6839]

45% tax burn rate. You guys must have been really successful or live in...Canada. I guess the real lesson here is don't software develop in Montreal unless you want taxes that are higher than payroll.

[@UnreasonableOpinions]

It might be they also picked a really inefficient way of setting up the business because of a lack of experience, or had to have a structure imputed to them by their local tax agency because they never clarified it. If you get that wrong hard enough you can end up having a higher tax burden than even the worst single, specific business structure.

[@fabc4681]

@@UnreasonableOpinions Those are pretty standard numbers in Quebec. The US tax rates are known to be quite low (and widely vary depending on the state), but I believe it still can get above 50% for high salaries. Many countries go higher than that (France for instance has a wide bracket of 30-70%), including Canada, mostly because they take charge of many more things than US federal & states (to take the example of France again: 0% income tax on low salaries, unemployment insurance, universal free healthcare, free tuition including universities, etc...).

[@StygianStyle]

When talking about a million dollars, it's not what to do, but how to do it better than 99.99% of other people.

[@ukt2618]

4:25 The guy looks like from fast and furious

[@swyxTV]

these people working so hard, taking so much risk, and the government just taking 40% in taxes makes me furious.

[@badradish2116]

have you ever heard of voluntaryism?

[@archmagusofevil]

If only that tax money actually got those people something. Water supply, health care, transportation infrastructure, protection from crime, protection from fire... anything really.

[@alinawithaface]

Forget the government, the fact that *steam alone* takes 30% is NUTS

[@BanditLeader]

@@alinawithaface no it isnt. Thats standard. And it goes down to 20% anyways if you sell enough

[@thomasfalcon6350]

Basically all these leeches middle men take more than half of your income. 10% for the government, 10% for steam that's what I would give....not 50+

[@MrAbrazildo]

It's a desperate scenario!

[@pondopondo1497]

Its insane you basically work for the gvrmnt almost half the time. My god, man.

[@cococolson]

They are in Canada- they pay for the roads, the schools, and Canada definitely subsidizes game developers and studios hence why Hollywood shoots everything there. You only get the 40% tax rate if you earn a pretty solid salary - it increments upwards. It's a good system - no point trying to take 40% of a Mcdonald workers salary they will starve. There are lower tax countries! But without those amenities these games don't get made. Somalia doesn't make a lot of games.

[@Drecon84]

Did I just hear a "Maybe allow them to unionize"? That maybe is completely misplaced there. Always allow your employees to unionize. That's the sole reason that capitalism works as a system right now.

[@dmgice]

@@xjohnny1000 Unions are a necessary evil. Necessary when there is evil and evil when they are no longer necessary.

[@josephmorales652]

These talks still go over my head. This man talk about “don’t ignore your own pay” What the shit kinda statement is that? Like who can afford to not “pay themselves” let alone live with out getting paid. To be honest I’m more interested in hearing a talk from someone who works at McDonald’s 9-5 but then churns out a video game after work. I think a lot of the time these devs beat around the bush about what is sustaining them.

[@fahmyeldeeb]

He said at the start 2 out of 3 were living at home. That means with parents most probably.

[@argylemanni280]

The guy who "churns out a video game after work" doesn't churn one out. He never finishes one. The talks are given by people who did the work. Most of them are idiots (the people who know what they're doing tend to stay quiet about it) but they still did the work.

[@YannPicardFX]

getting furry vibes

[@cosmiccoffee8497]

Those taxes are absolutely criminal...really happy I don't run a business in Canada.

[@joshuamiller7916]

so you didn't make a million dollars?

[@genesisfox5412]

First.

[@abhinandantyagi6222]

What?

[@GoatOfTheWoods]

Real Last

[@MartinRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR]

@@GMOTP5738 ​ dont you have anything better to do?

[@alexismonomaxos]

x x real real last

[@scorpiusjones5436]

Last real left.