10 Things Air Traffic Control Wish You Knew

[@flywiththeguys]

HEY GUYS! Real quick, this video has grown beyond the intended audience. It was written for perspective and student pilots, which is why it may seem basic for some. AND, it's written for the United States which uses the Pilot/Controller Glossary. Some terms and their use differ from the ICAO. Like Affirmative VS Affirm. Anyways, thanks for watching!

[@thort9ac]

Basically what you are saying is this video is clickbait. If you are a pilot understanding BASIC phraseology isn't something controllers 'WISH you [know]" ----- it's something you better know!

[@Swaggerlot]

Clipping of transmissions was the reason that many countries adopted 'Affirm' due to the 'tive' in both negative and affirmative.

[@flywiththeguys]

Good to know! And it makes sense.

[@ArnaudContet]

Many countries all the way up to ICAO

[@pirlout]

It is ICAO standard phraseology now; "Affirmative" is now non-standard

[@8literbeater]

My favorite is when my kids are bugging me about wanting something. "[Name], I have your request" usually gets the message across, they stop asking, and wait for a decision. It works surprisingly well. Warning; it's risky to try this with your wife.

[@flywiththeguys]

LOL

[@nativeafroeurasian]

Say "correction" if you made a mistake but notice while still in transmition eg. "Cleared to land runway 1-6 right, correction 1-6 left."

[@flywiththeguys]

GREAT ADD! Didn't know this was in the P/C Glossary.

[@davedebz]

Not sure how “affirmative” has crept in when ICAO standard phraseology is “affirm”. Under certain conditions of poor radio reception, “affirmative” and “negative” can be misunderstood, if you just hear the ...”ative”.

[@flywiththeguys]

Affirmative is in the US Pilot/Controller Glossary used in the US, which is where this video was made. We know we have an international audience and wish we could make everyone happy. But I agree with you about Affirm, which is why we mentioned it.

[@dijoxx]

Ask any international pilot or ATC and they will tell you that Americans are the worst when it comes to using standard phraseology. It has been an issue for decades. I'm afraid this problem will not get fixed until a major accident happens because of it.

[@wv_]

@@dijoxx I would agree with this except ive flown Helis to small GA airfields in france :D

[@devinmckee5768]

Fly With The Guys ICAO was formed in America, Chicago to be exact so “Affirm” is the correct term to be used for the exact reason David Harrison has mentioned, regardless of an international audience, ICAO is the standard every country in the world goes by, “Affirmative” is often used by weekend warriors and tolerated by ATC but you’d seldom find it being used among commercial pilots Didn’t mean for this to come across so nippy, Dam...

[@8literbeater]

@@devinmckee5768 It's page A-4 in the FAA Pilot Controller Glossary. So it is correct in the U.S. I think it's pretty pathetic that you accuse people that use standard phraseology as being weekend warriors that are merely tolerated by ATC. My multiengine instructor was a C-130 pilot and U.S. Air Force General. He used as much non-standard phraseology as anyone, when it wasn't crucial. Hardly a weekend warrior with more than 40 years wearing the uniform.

[@abbieamavi]

*This video was very helpful and really accurate. I'm currently bossing up my radio, in Instrument training, and "say again" is one of my favorite requests', but I forgot about "speak slower" I will utilize that tomorrow on my partial panel approach practice!* thanks 😂😂

[@flywiththeguys]

Glad it was helpful! There are some other good ones, like unable. Totally should have put unable in this one.

[@carstorm85]

@@flywiththeguys not putting unable in this one is a great reason to make a part two 😁

[@marshallhyasi6213]

Communication is required to be using ICAO textbook phraseology. It's clear and safe that way.

[@toddjudson4670]

Nope. Not true

[@8literbeater]

The International Civil Aviation Organization rules may apply when someone is in a different country, (International) but here in the U.S. we have our own rules.

[@jamesleicher]

ATC: you have a pen handy? got a number for you

[@flywiththeguys]

Can't, busy flying.

[@2whl4re]

@@flywiththeguys Lol - You must be flying VFR thru the Las Vegas final approach if that's your response

[@Boodieman72]

Another one pilots need to know is when a controller asks you do to something and you can't for whatever reason, you can respond with "unable"

[@flywiththeguys]

I wanted to add this but thought about it when I wasn't at my computer so it didn't make it into the script, but its a great one. We'll be doing WILCO in a separate video though. It requires a bit more explanation....

[@rickharriss]

@Professor Mike AmericanuckRadio It's a WW1 englishism so "will cooperate" often proceeded with "Roger Wilco."

[@shader26]

@@rickharriss just a student here, but I’ve understood the “Roger” is superfluous. That one simply says wilco. Roger, is implied. But then again, those to words together are like one of the phrases non pilots often can name if asked for pilot talk examples. Also thought to mention “unable” but agree with “fly with the guys” it ought to be done in some detail.

[@longlost00]

So I did my flight training in 75600 way back in 1994 and 1995 in Oxford, MS (KUOX). Glad to see it's still flying. Hasn't aged a day.

[@flywiththeguys]

WOW! That's awesome. Small world. I'm sure structurally its the same, but there have been substantial avionics upgrades done to it. =)

[@flywiththeguys]

We have an extended version of our Southern Transmission....... bit.ly/30QMZ1o

[@taddpowers3608]

Yes! Make request on initial call up, ie. Intersection Dep is a big one. Can be a lot of time on frequency giving taxi instructions then asking for an intersection Dep, reissuing taxi instructions, read back... tick tock

[@flywiththeguys]

Yes I agree, it can make things easier. But depending on what airport you're at it could be unavoidable to contact when taxing. Deer valley is easy, all taxi ways run east and west and you you can see the end is packed with planes and make your request on initial. Other airports with more complex taxi ways, you may not know until you get there. =)

[@RogerAlan]

Hi, Roger here. Can we make it “Copy” instead?

[@flywiththeguys]

LOL. Hi Roger. =) Thanks for watching.

[@dijoxx]

What's your vector, Victor?

[@Mattymoneyboy276]

@@dijoxx i just want clearance Clarence

[@benhiggins3194]

What's your heading JEFFREY !!!!!! 😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬

[@benhiggins3194]

@@dijoxx FYI vector is a name

[@kevw172]

Been watching the entire air traffic control playlist because theres always room for improvement for the radio for me :joy: its been a big help. On another note 5:33 that actually happened on my recent flight

[@flywiththeguys]

I've taken off a few times without squawking VFR. They always remind you after takeoff.... My bad for not checking, but when you fly club planes you need to.

[@adamcorby804]

Arnold at the end was classic! Well done!

[@flywiththeguys]

You can thank The Flying Controller for that one. =) I about died when he sent over the audio tracks to work with.

[@Boebus666]

Bloody Hilarious!

[@y_equals_mx_plus_c]

"Wanna take this big beautiful plane up" 🤣 reminds me of Howling Mad Murdock from the A-Team

[@flywiththeguys]

=)

[@anandsubramanian7427]

Had my first radio comm with atc today! Enjoyed this video

[@flywiththeguys]

Great! Thanks for watching!

[@TakingOff]

Great video Carl! Though I don’t know about that Controller.

[@flywiththeguys]

Meh. He was fun to work with. =) We at least got this out of it.... bit.ly/30QMZ1o

[@9HighFlyer9]

I learned to fly at DVT almost 20 years ago. They have always had some of the fastest and most patient controllers. If anyone from from the cab sees this, thanks.

[@flywiththeguys]

I'll agree, granted I've heard my share of inpatients. Like the time someone called inbound and was asked to say again 3 times by the controller. Even I couldn't understand them. It was busy so the controller told them to remain outside class delta and call back in 5 minutes. It happens, but 10/10 they are amazing for the amount of traffic they deal with on a daily basis.

[@rohitshastry2007]

If you have a simulator you can use Virtual Atc(Vatsim) to practice. I learnt it in 4 DAYS!!. It's a great help for the student pilots.

[@flywiththeguys]

Yep. We're working on a video about this. =)

[@EvanNadeau]

I subscribed because of the Arni-controller impression. So funny.

[@flywiththeguys]

LOL. Matt did a good job with that one. Thanks for staying until the end!

[@brennenfitzgerald]

First solo cross country as a student…. Had tower switch me during downwind to a different runway. Then another voice bark as I called final on said runway that the active was something else. I have it on digital recorder: Moral of the story? Find a way to record your flights, and don’t be afraid of the word “unable”. You’re PIC….. treat yourself as such, fly the airplane, and we’ll talk on the ground later.

[@flywiththeguys]

Yea, unable is a powerful term. Worst that will happen on final is they'll make you do a go around, get your setup properly for the correct runway, and give you the time you need to make a safe landing. Good advice!

[@bob81449]

As a former controller it's very helpful to give all your information at one time, not over 4-5 exchanges. Tell ATC who you are, what you are, where you are, what your request is and finally the current ATIS code. I started a private aircraft airport tower and it really slows things down on a busy Sunday. Example: P-"Ft Worth tower, Cessna 1234", C-"Cessna 1234, Ft Worth Tower", P-"Ft Worth Tower Cessna 1234 inbound for landing" (OK you get the point). ATC would prefer that once you make initial contact, gives us everything, Example: P-Ft Worth Tower, Cessna 1234, Cessna 172, 3 miles NE at 3000, inbound for landing, with information Zulu". Clean and simple, now I have what I need to help into the airport traffic pattern and land.

[@flywiththeguys]

Totally agree. Less time on the radio with someone gives you guys more time to control the airspace, especially when is busy.

[@bob81449]

@@flywiththeguys I really saw the difference when I did a 30-day OJT at DFW. Having only worked at small airports, I became very aware how much easier it was to deal with airline pilots. Everything crisp, clear, and to the point. I was an eye-opener on how it could make my job as a controller easier.

[@ohcliff1030]

“ATC has a friendly side”.......tell that to a couple of controllers at Van Nuys, LOL, I had a couple of experiences with them years ago that almost made me quit training as a young student pilot! But in their defense a sharp controller also saved my bacon and directed me safely out of the path of an errant pilot who refused to follow ATC instructions and came barreling into that airport while others were in the pattern. He clearly never saw us on final as he descended over my instructor and me and missed us by mere feet!

[@flywiththeguys]

Wow. Crazy story. Yea.... stressed controllers can get grouchy, but they still have to be helpful and honor requests when able.

[@keithmaxon9510]

Van Nuys controllers are the worst. And that is saying something. Most ATC in SoCal dealing with GA are super helpful. Those guys are miserable. I do everything to avoid that airspace.

[@maxadler225]

Probably was Van Nuys mom, if you know you know

[@mattoftexas]

Definitely earned my subscription on this video! I'm up in KPRC so it's fun to hear a nearby airport mentioned in the video

[@flywiththeguys]

Awesome! Thanks for subscribing. I haven't been up there since my training. Almost went last month though because I was too lazy to drive... 😂

[@rosselliott833]

Great fun informative video. Love it👏🏼

[@flywiththeguys]

Thanks so much!

[@stevek7649]

Great content as usual and tell Mrs. Carl she did a stellar job. 👍👍👍

[@flywiththeguys]

Thank you Steve! She's a riot to record with. This video took 53 minutes to record with her.... would have taken me 10. Should I make an out takes video?

[@sarathw5740]

Thanks. I am thinking of becoming a student pilot but I am paranoid with ATC. You made me a little relaxed.

[@flywiththeguys]

Go for it! It's not as hard as you think. =) Make sure to checkout our other video on how to talk to ATC! kzbin.info/www/bejne/sHO6h5mwa6x4nc0

[@freakfly23]

As an ATC, take their advice and announce yourself as a student pilot. Things will go better for you.

[@Rick1984FL]

11. Refusing a number copy because you’re flying or already know it. It will surely go over well with the FSDO and the ASIs...

[@flywiththeguys]

LOL #N1NR

[@counterfit5]

I saw that in a video recently. "I have a number for you to copy" "I already have that one"

[@HiTechRob]

We have Whiskey! My favorite drink. lol!

[@flywiththeguys]

I've been wanting to do that call on frequency forever.... I at least got to share it here. =)

[@GavinK-42]

Thanks for the great video! ATC Just wants to have good comms in both direction!

[@flywiththeguys]

Yes they do!

[@gabrielfarfanvasser7152]

Love your videos!!!!

[@flywiththeguys]

Thank you!! Glad you like them. =)

[@goldboy3505]

As a controller I'd like to add, do not say you "have the weather" in leui of the atis code. Instead say, "with the numbers" or the actual atis code. Anything else and we will have to verify the atis or give wind/ altimeter.

[@flywiththeguys]

I was looking into this recently. Can pilots say that for initial contact on inbound and outbound?

[@Slaners100]

When I flew solo for the first time, despite saying “student G-BXPC” ATC still spoke time me fast. Thankfully I was more then proficient with RT 😂 never thought to say “ slow down”

[@flywiththeguys]

Thats too bad. I was fairly good by the time I soloed, but I still told them it was my initial.

[@theinfiniteflightdeck]

4:48 I can’t stop laughing Oh and I hate when people do this but..... fIrSt

[@flywiththeguys]

Sooo.... There's another version of this communication. instagram.com/p/CDACxa0Br95/?

[@sabriath]

Welp...I watched a youtube video about it, so now I'm a master at ATC communication.

[@flywiththeguys]

Yep. You saw it on the internet and that's all we need to know! 😂 Thanks for watching.

[@Kaimine08]

While Proper Phraseology is important, It should be noted that talking in plain speak is also important and is advisable when dealing with a situation you're not comfortable with or not familiar with. I feel as if too much of an importance on phraseology tends to scare pilots from utilizing ATC services. While I agree that the example listed in the video was a bit of an over exaggeration (And just about everyone on frequency is going to burst out laughing), if you have a problem or not quite sure of the proper way to convey what you want, it wouldn't hurt to just say what you want. Kind of goes hand and hand with requests in a way. Another version of negative for pilots is "Unable". Whether it be due to a LAHSO as a student pilot, ATC instruction would send you into a cloud, or you just don't feel comfortable with the clearance, never be afraid to assert your PiC Unable. A couple more I want to add. When giving details to ATC about the airport you want to land at, if you say unfamiliar, they'll treat it as if you've never landed there before and give you some extra consideration. Saying student pilot doesn't have to be just because you're a student pilot. You can utilize student pilot even if you aren't a student pilot to make things a little easier on yourself. It's kind of another version of unfamiliar in a way. And as something to say to pilots, most people who work in ATC don't fly air planes. Saying your vacuum pump is inop may not give them the sense of urgency that a pilot would think. If you're in an emergency, explain it in a way that leaves no room for doubt. Instead of vacuum pump failure, say your heading indicator and attitude indicator are inop. That will mean a lot more to them.

[@flywiththeguys]

Great comment, and I totally agree. Proper phraseology is great for efficient communication, but can be thrown out the window when needed, like in an emergency. And for the unable thing, we have plans for that one. I was going to include it, even wrote it down, but decided it needed to be apart of a different video.

[@Kaimine08]

@@flywiththeguys Alright, just making sure no one forgot about that, "Unable" is an important word to know. Not used very often but still a good word to know.

[@josemmontes5810]

Thanks for a great video, some times we need to be reminded that air traffic controllers are people too...

[@flywiththeguys]

They really are. They're just more professional then us. =)

[@coreymcdonald7745]

I’ve heard that with some controllers, letting them know you’re a student pilot makes no difference to them.

[@flywiththeguys]

Yeah, telling them you're a student pilot may or may not help you much. Depends on the situation. Telling them you're on your student pilot solo, you'll usually get special treatment.

[@nativeafroeurasian]

2:15 why is it fun? I don't even know a different saying than "say again" for "please repeat"

[@flywiththeguys]

I know right! This was really geared at students as a helpful way to learn a few helpful things.

[@tedferkin]

Just another bit of information, the reason for "say again" rather than anything with "repeat", is that it comes from military radio. "Repeat" is used to call for an immediate repeat of the last artillery support call. As you can imagine saying this in the wrong network can cause an awful lot of trouble. This has become so ingrained on my psyche that I always say "say again" rather than "what" or "repeat", even though it's been nearly 20 years since I had anything to do with the military.

[@nativeafroeurasian]

@@tedferkin thanks for the info:) Still I say "say again" to family, friends as well as all other people I didn't understand so I don't understand what's fun about it

[@mikearakelian6368]

With B space i found it helpful to call facility before flight to get any tips for that area.... I flew a DHC 4, a slow plane, and got suggestions on how to operate st base A/P without being in the way at busy times this done as a 135 operator... We made it work without problems.

[@flywiththeguys]

Thats good idea, calling the controlling tower beforehand. I'm used to the B airspace around here, but other areas are more complex!

[@larrysouthern5098]

Thank you for this video...I believe this is a big stumblng block for a lot of new pilots it is intimidating!!! especially at larger airports!!! There are some good simulator programs for pilots to get use to talking to atc now and that helps get acquainted with the task at hand!!! Thanks. 🐦

[@flywiththeguys]

Yep. OH and we're going to refresh our ATC content really soon. Some GREAT stuff planned to really help you guys figure things out.

[@BK-it6te]

Really good

[@flywiththeguys]

Thanks!

[@beneidem369]

Roger doesn't necessarily mean understanding of information. According to P/CG, it only means that information was received, no reference is made as to the understanding of the message. And in most situations, the word Roger is superfluous. Simply reading back the tail number tells ATC you heard the message. Great video though! Tons of great info.

[@flywiththeguys]

Thanks! We're going more in depth on roger and wilco soon. They have their place. 😀

[@florianredecsy4997]

Nice video. But honestly in my opinion these are all things you have to know. Sure you will mistakes during the training but that’s why you tell them that you are on training. But thereafter there is no excuse for not knowing...

[@flywiththeguys]

Oh I totally agree. Most of our content is aimed at Student Pilots and we have a whole group of videos on talking to ATC. KZbin likes this one for some reason and is suggesting it to everyone. Thanks for watching it though!

[@jaredr2374]

I looked in the glossary, but couldn't find BUZZ THE TOWER. How am I supposed to request a BUZZ THE TOWER?

[@flywiththeguys]

I actually find this depressing. Kind of want to get a hard copy and write it in...

[@labeachgeek]

It called 'Tower Check' 🤡 Or 'Tower Wash' if you can hit the tower with your rotor/prop wash. Gotta keep the bugs off the windows 😂🤪

[@davidburroughs7068]

Negarive, ghostrider, the pattern is full ...

[@clearance_delivery]

Hahaha I lost it at Sea-dona 😂😂😂

[@flywiththeguys]

It gets better - bit.ly/30QMZ1o

[@Uncommon_Sense01]

In Australia we have to repeat everthing back with our callsign, we're not allowed to just say affirmative or negative. Good video though 👍

[@flywiththeguys]

OH, we can't just say Affirmative or Negative for everything. We do have to read back most things. I'll be making a video on that soon. =)

[@Uncommon_Sense01]

@@flywiththeguys Yea i didn't think so, i just noticed for a couple of things you were allowed to say Affirmative/Neg where as in Aus we literally have to repeat everything back in a summarised form. Thanks for the reply and i look forward to your next video :)

[@mikehagan4320]

What is a light gun?

[@flywiththeguys]

If your radios fail, or you have electrical issues and your radio fails, basically if you have no way to communicate with the tower, they bring out a light gun and shine different colors at you to communicate.

[@claire4897]

They didn’t do that when my CFI and I lost our radios yesterday. Radio failure definitely made the flight more exciting

[@stefanocolletto6984]

Great video! How do you make your intro? Do you use any application?

[@flywiththeguys]

It was a template that I edited. Can't even remember from where right now. But it was from Adobe Aftereffects.

[@billquillin1952]

EXCELLENT

[@flywiththeguys]

Thank you! Cheers!

[@learning2fly]

Great video!

[@flywiththeguys]

Thanks! Things like this help keep me motivated.

[@gianpierocecchetti1736]

Question: JTACs learn to say "Affirm" instead of "Affirmative" to not confuse it with "Negative" on bad comms. I don't know about ICAO, does it differ?

[@gianpierocecchetti1736]

to be more clear, "Affirmative" is considered a wrong brevity term.

[@flywiththeguys]

The Pilot/Controller Glossary in the US calls out for affirmative, but ICAO has adopted affirm, as well as other countries. IMO, the US should update the glossary to Affirm.

[@shader26]

@@flywiththeguys so...should we also trim negative to negate?

[@8literbeater]

@@shader26 this is the proper question.

[@carsona6336]

4:45 Hahahaha I'm deaddddd

[@flywiththeguys]

Here's another edit of it that you'll appreciate.... instagram.com/p/CDACxa0Br95/?

[@carsona6336]

@@flywiththeguys Love it hahahaha. Thanks for sharing.

[@SimonTekConley]

Can talk to astronauts orbiting the moon, but not the tower less than a mile away.

[@flywiththeguys]

=)

[@pvtdipwad2944]

When I am in my aircraft I say student pilot before my tail number. "Student Pilot N5415F..." Im at a busy corporate airport so I make sure their ears perk up before I request anything!

[@flywiththeguys]

Good call.

[@itsjustbonnie6418]

this is gold

[@flywiththeguys]

Thanks!

[@ccubsfan94]

A subconscious move for speaking faster is to speak slower yourself, dont try to keep up with the pace if you cant, if you need to be slower they will usually talk to you slower as well.

[@flywiththeguys]

This sometimes works. In our talking to ATC video I did this, they still fired at me with a cannon.

[@johns9694]

Nice job with the video! A couple more things that need mentioning is block and break. For instance when there are two people communicating at the same time on the frequency, you just say block and air traffic control repeats their last transmission. This is handy so you don't have to say the most embarrassing thing, say again! LOL additionally when a controller changes the person that they are speaking to they will then say block in order to separate the transmission into two different parts or more.

[@flywiththeguys]

See, even I'm learning things now. Looked up Blocked - Phraseology used to indicate that a radio transmission has been distorted or interrupted due to multiple simultaneous radio transmissions.

[@johns9694]

@@navy_flyer2331 , yes, that is what block is for. What I'm saying is they don't know that it really wasn't blocked by another transmission. You will get them to say it again without sounding amateurish! ;) Get it?

[@8literbeater]

@@johns9694 BLOCKED. Past tense of block, because it's in the past. BLOCKED

[@johns9694]

@@8literbeater hahaha like you can really hear the difference between those words on the radio!

[@8literbeater]

@@johns9694 you aren't on the radio though. You're in a comment section of KZbin. You're literally spelling the word out to be read by people. If you want to say the wrong word on the air and feel like you're accomplishing something by bucking the system, go ahead. Here in written text, you're using the wrong word, and it shows.

[@jawadkhan4647]

IMO, Any thing as a departure taxiway request or a flying pattern request to be accomodated if traffic permits should be requested at the initial start up call. That way the controller has time to coordinate with the relevant control units and sequence their traffic if possible. This makes the whole process a lot easier as impromptu requests puts a controller on spot making some of them (us) a bit grouchy.

[@flywiththeguys]

I completely agree! Unless you can't see that you would be #15 for take off until after you've taxied most of the way there. =) Happens a lot at deer valley because of all the student traffic. Luckily the schools have their own call signs so the controllers identify them. This makes it to when I call, I typically get an earlier intersection no matter what.

[@jawadkhan4647]

@@navy_flyer2331 yeah I agree but what does happen with an intersection departure is that sequences go awry and a tower controller is a sucker for departure sequences. I have had many times a training acft requesting an intersection, while passing that exact interaection, which was not entirely feasible with the traffic of the tower controller. This is always countered by a training acft reporting the requested intersection some time earlier and more preferrable at the start of taxi.

[@deonogorman928]

U should do a good flying vid with u and tiffany while doing a q&a btw love the vids

[@flywiththeguys]

That would be fun! I should set that one up.

[@deonogorman928]

@@flywiththeguys yeah would be good thanks

[@shader26]

Very good video! I would (or maybe it is covered in another video already?) like to request one on something I never see explained. When you are about to enter say a class B airspace, how you request to pass through it. I believe one should call from about ten miles out, but not sure what or how you say it. In pilot forums everyone gets all bent out of shape about whether you even HAVE to request, that you just have to have radio contact, etc. but I believe you do have to request. Say your position, intended destination through the airspace and request permission? Assume they then give you a squawk code, and maybe heading you should take? But I just don’t know how that conversation would happen.

[@eager6874]

To enter controlled airspace you need a clearence. How far away you are when you call them up doesn’t matter, you just need to be cleared before you enter. You start by making an initial call to the flight controller: ”Norway control, Scandinavian 1234”. This tells the controller you want to make contact, but he needs to acknowledge you before you say any more. Airlines will have filed a flight plan, telling the controllers what you’re intentions are. The controllers will therefore know what you want and need, long before you even make contact, making communication far easier: ”Scandinavian 1234, climb FL260”. With this message, the controller clears the aircraft to enter his airspace and climb to 26 000 ft pressure altitude. The aircraft will then read back the instructions: ”Climb FL260, Scandinavian 1234”. It doesn’t have to be any more than that. Having filed a flight plan makes communication a lot easier. The controller knows that you’re comming, and he knows what you are doing. Therefore, this doesn’t need to be brought up when calling them. If you don’t have a flight plan, you need to tell them where you are going and how you want to get there. Then, after you have relayed all the information the controller needs, he can clear you to enter his airspace. You’ll usually get a squawk code with the very first controller you contact. Often you’ll keep that squawk throughout the flight, but it’s not uncommon to be assigned a new one at a later stage. Then you just set the new squawk and go about your business.

[@shader26]

@@eager6874 thanks. I was thinking more about the case where you haven’t filed a flight plan, so just VFR to a destination and needing to go through. In my case it would actually be class C which kind of surrounds a lot of our area. So far mainly have been contacting approach but just to request an airworks area 4000 and below. I realized, I wouldn’t be sure how to fly through, how to request it, or on to a destination through the airspace.

[@eager6874]

shader26 I see. In the case of having to cross a controlled airspace without a flight plan, I would start with the initial call as always. Then I would follow up with something like: ”Currently 10 nautical miles east of ^place they’ll know^ at 5000 ft, intentions are VFR to ^final destination^, negative flight plan, requesting to enter controlled airspace 5000 ft, QNH 1020, LN-ABC”. ATC will probably reply with something like: ”LBC, identified, cleared to enter controlled airspace 5000 ft, QNH 1020, no reported traffic”. Then you just read back and fly on. If ATC wants to know something else they’ll just ask. They may ask as you enter, and they may ask when you’re halfway through. When you fly without a flight plan, you sort of deal with ATC as you go. Like we say: ”No two flights are equal”. And that goes for communication to :)

[@shader26]

@@eager6874 thanks! Sounds right and what I’d expect, but I just was very unsure, so this helped a lot, I appreciate it!

[@eager6874]

shader26 No problem :) And remember that standard phraseology is just that; standard. There’s no problem deviating from it, as long as communication is sufficient. And if you mess things up, that’s okay. We’ll just take our time and sort it out. There have been a few cases where I and the controller are just somewhat fumbling towards some sort of understanding of what’s going to happen, ish XD

[@ryanhaart]

1:38 - This very simple communication structure, had it been in use at the time, would have prevented the Tenerife disaster

[@flywiththeguys]

Deviation from proper phraseology is fine as well as long as it's safe. There was a lot going on in the Tenerife crash though.

[@erictaylor5462]

ATC might forget about you. Controllers are busy. You are not the only aircraft they are dealing with. I know of a pilot (friend of my dad) who was 4000 feet over Stockton, Ca heading North in 0 visibility IMC. He was called and asked to turn east to avoid other traffic but after several minutes was not told to resume a northerly heading. This was a problem because of the 7000 foot high mountains east of Stockton. He called ATC to say he was still heading east and was told at once to turn North again. In a more tragic event at LAX, a commuter plane was cleared into position and hold on the runway part way down the runway. The controller then forgot about the commuter and cleared another plane to land. Many people blamed the controller, but I think the commuter pilot was at fault. He should have expected a clearance for takeoff after just a few seconds and should have requested one when he didn't get it. Further, when he heard the other plane cleared to land, he should have called and said he was still holding on that runway.

[@flywiththeguys]

Thats something I tell people all the time. When your in the controlled airspace of a towered field, listen to all the calls. Not just your own. This will let you know whats going on and help you anticipate what your next move is. Like when you're holding short the runway waiting to depart on a busy day. If you hear the controller extend someones downwind, you know hes making room for you to depart and you should get ready to help keep things flowing.

[@erictaylor5462]

@@flywiththeguys Did I mention my dad was a CFI? This also holds true when flying IFR. You need to pay attention to what is going on, so you can anticipate frequency changes and approach instructions. The PIC, not the controller, is responsible for safe operations. Indeed, "not my fault" is not good enough, because even if something is technically not your fault, there are often things you can do to prevent what happens. I like to use the example of sitting at a red light. The light turns green and being a prudent driver you look both ways and see a big truck bearing down on the intersection, smoke pouring from his pipes. What should you do? You have a green light, if there is an accident, it won't be your fault, so is there any reason not to go?

[@2660016A]

I thought this was gonna be more of a ‘pet peeves’ video, rather than a lesson in basic RT. If you’re having to wish that pilots you control knew stuff like this, they must be running a bit of a loose ship over in the pilot examiners section where you are! I thought it would be stuff more like ‘when you’re pestering us for a descent, the likely reason we haven’t given you it is xyz, so stop being impatient!’

[@flywiththeguys]

It's basic RT stuff because our channel is mostly focused on perspective and student pilots. It got picked up by KZbin. 😂

[@johnkeith8023]

Awesome video Carl

[@flywiththeguys]

Thanks John 👍

[@shashazhang5315]

Thanks for the video, I have a questions, I hear liveATC.net, KATL sometimes ATC give instruct said ” Football” , and Airline pilot repeat ”Football” what’s that mean?

[@flywiththeguys]

No idea. I would need an example to figure that one out.

[@shashazhang5315]

Fly With The Guys My CFI tell me maybe they were using a stadium as a waypoint

[@athiesen2]

One that bugs me is when tower issues a traffic advisory. There should be one of two responses being either "traffic in sight" or "negative contact". I hear lots of people reply with "looking for traffic" . It makes me wonder of sometimes they aren't looking for traffic. Maybe in ground school I missed that looking for VFR traffic was optional but I don't think so.... The controller wants to know if you see the traffic or not. It is assumed that you will actually look for the traffic so telling them you are looking is just a wast of time. Let them know if you see the traffic or not.

[@flywiththeguys]

Honestly, I'm guilty of this. Mostly because I was taught that way and I thought it was normal. It wasn't until recently that I found out "negative traffic" is the correct term and why.

[@GavinK-42]

"Looking" is a valid reply to ATC. It tells them that you received their message, and you are looking for and aware of the potential conflict. Next, the pilot should respond with "traffic in sight" or "Negative contact", depending on the outcome.

[@MikeGranby]

ATC isn’t worried by your saying “looking”. They know what it means, i.e., roger, negative contact, and I’ll let you know if I see it. Phraseology is important, but let’s not go overboard.

[@claythomas6587]

Shouldn't the pilot ID by model not make? I was just informed this change in my flight review but I still hear pilots ID by make in the call all the time.

[@8literbeater]

I've found it's most common with Cessnas. I think it's because it's easier to say Cessna than Skyhawk. It might also be because the 152 never got a name, and only some of the 150s were called a Commuter. The rest of the 150s didn't have a name. So you have many years of primary training airplanes with no name, and I think "Cessna" was/is preferred instead of "one fifty" or "one fife two". Too many numbers. Also, when I say "Commuter" it gets taken as "Commander" about 25% of the time, and that's a pretty huge performance expectation difference. Not good.

[@justintrevizo3609]

Calling up with either make or model is acceptable. However calling up with the model can give ATC an idea of A/C characteristics which help when sequencing, calling traffic, giving instructions and wake turbulence considerations.

[@flywiththeguys]

This would be the Prefix. You can use aircraft type, model or manufacturer's name. You can also register a prefix with the FAA. Our local flight schools uses these. If everyone is using cessna, you could use skyhawk so it's easier to identify your calls. When I fly the 172 I just use Cessna, but in the 177 I say cardinal.

[@claythomas6587]

@@flywiththeguys like I fly with a school, they can prefix the 172 trainers as their school name i.e. GT N12345?

[@wv_]

I recommend any students having issues listening on radio check out the vasaviation channel, after listening for multiple hours it helped me with busier airports like EGLL

[@flywiththeguys]

There's some good stuff on there. www.liveatc.net/ is also a great resource of raw overall audio. For fun, you can pick a call sign and follow them.

[@dylconnaway9976]

I believe “speak slower” is the best way to get a condescending response from ATC.

[@flywiththeguys]

Depends on how you say it. LOL I did it once while laughing. They laughed back, we all had a good time.

[@Linlds21]

Looking for wake turbulence

[@flywiththeguys]

LOL. I literally laughed when I saw this.

[@Egobyte83]

6:13... when you are in the air and you hear that, does tower mean for you to veer off to the left side of the runway and turn towards the right around the edge, or does he mean for you to go in a left-hand pattern around, meaning you go to the right and then follow around the edge TO the left?

[@EllieODaire]

They were telling the aircraft approaching the runway to abort the landing without touching down, turn left, and circle back around to try again by making a series of left turns to line back up with the same runway.

[@justintrevizo3609]

They were instructing the aircraft to go around, abort their landing, and side step the runway to the left while maintaining runway heading until they would normally turn crosswind. This is done to make sure the aircraft doesn't overfly the other a/c lined up on the runway and also not fly into other a/c in left traffic.

[@mikeryan6277]

I only heard to go around on left side of runway, if not directed to fly left or right pattern by end of runway I would have called and asked.

[@8literbeater]

@@EllieODaire sorry, "go around" is not an instruction that includes any turning instructions.

[@justintrevizo3609]

@@mikeryan6277 You are correct, one would assume they'd be put into left traffic, but the controller could put them in right.

[@razortm9947]

The controller didn’t reissue the squawk when telling the aircraft to reset his transponder!

[@flywiththeguys]

I mean, they can make mistakes.... but we were flying "hypothetical VFR" =)

[@justintrevizo3609]

I took it as ATC asking the pilot to recycle/reset their transponder, possibly due to negative altitude readout on radar.

[@razortm9947]

@@justintrevizo3609 Right, but that can cause the code to disappear, so the controller must restate the code when they say “reset transponder.”

[@mohammedbenzizi9561]

What about BREAK BREAK

[@flywiththeguys]

That looks like its a UK term. Not one we use in the US. This one was focused more on US phraseology.

[@RowlandMax]

There is only one required readback

[@flywiththeguys]

There are a handful of them. We're working on a video for this one right now. =)

[@RowlandMax]

@@flywiththeguys Remember for your video - there's a difference between a readback and a report. The ONLY mandatory read back is Runway Hold Short. Examples of mandatory reports - leaving assigned altitude, final approach fix inbound, entering a hold, missed approach. These are reports - not read backs. rules is very important. I also find that a lot of airline pilots are the worst on the radio.

[@RowlandMax]

Navy_flyer Difference between the law and good airmanship. But knowing the law is also important.

[@dutchygirl]

Nice video!

[@flywiththeguys]

Thanks! Hopefully we can get more consistent again.

[@dutchygirl]

@@flywiththeguys It isn't that hard I think. Overhere in The Netherlands it works the same in English. Not for Germany I found out. Looking forward to your next video! Good content for students :-)

[@williamdegnan4718]

4:42 Cessna 75600 Possible Pilot Deviant. Have a phone number for you to copy when able. ;-)

[@flywiththeguys]

ONLY IF YOU CROSS THE BARS! LOL

[@giggiwolf3824]

Affirmative is not standard phraseology

[@8literbeater]

It's in the FAA Pilot Controller Glossary on page A-4. Perhaps you should let the FAA know that they're wrong.

[@flywiththeguys]

Depends on where you are in the world. In the US it is per the Pilot/Controller Glossary. ICAO uses Affirm.

[@HobbyHoarder]

Good video for students, but these aren't really secrets. If you have a license and didn't know all 10 of these already, you shouldn't be flying in the first place.

[@flywiththeguys]

Totally agree! And the video was designed with students in mind. A lot of our content is geared towards them and perspective pilots. It's gathered a lot of popularity recently though.

[@AsH-fp3fx]

Hmmm. Touch and Go for a student solo?

[@flywiththeguys]

Yep. A typical initial student solo usually consists of 3 touch and go's in the pattern.

[@AsH-fp3fx]

Fly With The Guys actually a typical first solo is 3 full stops.

[@freakfly23]

They got you on that one.

[@flywiththeguys]

Well I did it wrong then. =)

[@freakfly23]

@@flywiththeguys touch and goes are a bad idea for a student solo because a botched landing could lead to a forced take off and a crash. If you float the landing to midfield on a short runway and then try to take off because you think you have to, then you may not have enough runway. Full stops are generally safer.

[@NbenGames]

IM A CESSNA!

[@flywiththeguys]

I have a Tshirt with that on it i've been working on... should I release it? =)

[@stevemohl30]

Um, student pilots should not be requesting Touch and go's....full stop taxi back only....

[@flywiththeguys]

I've been hearing this a lot lately. I did touch and go's on my initial solo. Finding a lot of people did the same but a majority did stop and go's. I understand the reasoning, but I guess it depends on the instructor and student.

[@mikebeuselinck6138]

Every time I watch your intro montage, I think of the Fly8ma.com guy's intro. And vice versa! Example: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i52YqYp4a5xgf9U

[@flywiththeguys]

I actually just went and watched his. Had no idea he was doing that. I watched Jon a long time ago and his recent stuff is interesting, but I haven't had time to watch much of it. His intro is very similar! I want to call first on it, but I have no idea how long he's been using it. LOL

[@cormacrohda319]

This might just he from time in FS, but these dont rly seem like secrets

[@flywiththeguys]

Not if you know what you're doing, in real life or FS. We get a lot of student pilots on the channel and this is geared at helping them pickup a few things.

[@8literbeater]

Since ATC wishes you knew it, it's the opposite of secret.

[@cormacrohda319]

@@8literbeater well sue me, the point is, someone who has never been in PIC or even onto a flight deck or cockpit knows all ot these

[@8literbeater]

@@cormacrohda319 yes. They are English language words. Not everyone knows the difference between "say again" and "what did you say". One of those is acceptable, and one is not. Not everyone knows that.

[@cormacrohda319]

@@8literbeater right but my point is that I learned this all in about 2-3 months in fsx

[@norbert1636]

And how these 10 things are secrets? Moderately skilled VATSIM pilot knows it all. And I'd put no1 "UNABLE"...when you fly LOGAN1H STAR to EGLL...always unable lol

[@antrillion]

If you're a pilot I really hope none of these are secrets. Should be required knowledge.

[@norbert1636]

@@antrillion I have one secret re ATC, but, because it is a secret I'm not tellin ya how to convince controller to give me a shortcut and change my FPL haha ;) ofc I'm not talking about useless in terms of track miles like DET DCT KOK or REDFA ;)

[@antrillion]

norbert1636 you mean like this? ;) kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y6S0pnukp6-oZ6s

[@norbert1636]

@@antrillion oh, that is competely different story, if the pilot declares emergency then whatever he or she wants controller MUST give it, after all it is the pilot who flies the airplane and whatever they need to safely land the plane they must be cleared for whatever they want, the best example when the controller "punished" the pilot is Shamrock departing JFK for not proceeding HDG they gave them - here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rWLVZIuQhshnkNE Ofc GREKI SIDs are always very busy but this was unnecessary imo.

[@antrillion]

@@norbert1636 Yeah I was just kidding about declaring an emergency to get what you want. But geez, yeah, that departure you linked to was kind of a mess. Must have been a way to handle that more smoothly it seems.

[@jonasmller6962]

So you wan’t me to use common cense?

[@flywiththeguys]

You would think.... I’m great with towered fields. Is the non towered I mess up at!

[@artd.]

What does it mean when a pilot ask for a Date and Time stamp?

[@flywiththeguys]

No idea!

[@aaronsaviation142]

It’s “affirm” not affirmative, as it’s too close to “negative”

[@flywiththeguys]

Depends on where you are in the world, but I agree with you that they sound similar. In the US, the Pilot/Controller Glossary calls out "Affirmative" as the proper way. But other countries us "Affirm" for the same reason you described. There was a fun discussion in one of groups I frequent over on Facebook or I wouldn't have even known that.

[@aaronsaviation142]

Fly With The Guys haha, we’re correct over here in Europe

[@aaronsaviation142]

Fly With The Guys in the UK we use cap 413 as our ATC and Pilot phraseology bible 😂

[@freakfly23]

Tell me again how Europe has the most free, affordable, and thus busy airspace in the world while also being the safest. Oh, wait... that's the U.S..

[@4-7th_CAV]

Since this is a video about using proper phraseology, it seems odd that you would include a "shortened version" of "affirmative" as being acceptable. "Affirm" is not listed anywhere in the Pilot / Controller Glossary.

[@raymondkong894]

For EASA and most places not North America 'Affirm' is the correct phraseology, 'Affirmative' is incorrect due to it sounding too close to 'Negative'.

[@flywiththeguys]

You're right, and I've learned a bit more since posting this. In the US the P/C Glossary calls out Affirmative, but in other countries theirs calls for Affirm because of "ative" at the end of both sounding similar. So it's right somewhere in the world. =)

[@4-7th_CAV]

@@flywiththeguys Thank you for verifying and clarifying that point. I had also posted this comment on a CFI Facebook page, and was almost immediately made aware of that distinction. It just goes to show, we all are learning everyday :-) .

[@benhiggins3194]

Bruh this vocabulary is for 4yr olds. "Say again means repeat😄"

[@flywiththeguys]

Ture, but we're this was focusing on communicating using the Pilot/Controller Glossary in the US and repeat isn't in there.

[@benhiggins3194]

@@flywiththeguys doesn't matter tho. Anyone who speaks English knows that speak slowly means to ... well ... speak slowly. Most of this vocabulary is just common vocabulary anyone would say.

[@8literbeater]

@@benhiggins3194 that's true. But not all "normal vocabulary" is acceptable when flying. Some standard communication is normal speaking, but most normal speaking is not standard communication.

[@benhiggins3194]

Oh I guess that's true sorry

[@joejohnston1776]

This whole process could be streamlined and simplified.

[@flywiththeguys]

Agreed. Trying to figure out how though.

[@theangrypc4642]

For the most part it is. However, when you're doing training the flight is not gonna be you're typical point A to point B flight that the system is designed for. Also, you have the human factor where someone may not have received a high level of training, hasn't remained proficient, or is having an off day resulting in some confusion that has to be worked through.

[@RGMS_]

I dont like the way she stares into my soul

[@flywiththeguys]

More like a deer in the headlights look. LOL She's reading a teleprompter. She's a lot more fun when she's not doing that.

[@BonanzaPilot]

don't be a bloviator

[@flywiththeguys]

😂 I think I know what that means. Bold Aviator?

[@BonanzaPilot]

@@flywiththeguys No, it is someone who sounds like they are reading out of the AIM, use all the big terms, and hog up the frequency. Comes from the word "Bloviate"

[@aaronfloyd14]

The cringe

[@flywiththeguys]

She's new, still trying. Unless you're talking about our southern transmission then yes....