10 Times Doctor Who Gave Fans EXACTLY What They Wanted (And They Hated It)

[@unorthodoxbox]

When Moffat changed the numbering to include the Journey's End regeneration as an actual regeneration I was glad because it adds consequences to the tenth Doctor's vanity.

[@IanMT56]

It also adds context to his tantrum in End of Time, because after not being around all that long in his regeneration, he’s now faced with going into his last life

[@TopHatJackStudios]

​@@IanMT56 I honestly never thought of it that way, but you're right.

[@stargazer1682]

Yeah, I always thought it made perfect sense. This video calling it "dubious numbering" is... well, dubious...

[@reubenmanzo2054]

If in 'The Night of the Doctor', the Doctor announces he's at his last incarnation, how come he readily begins to regenerate in 'The Impossible Astronaut', considering it was the same incarnation?

[@stargazer1682]

@@reubenmanzo2054 He can conceivably have regeneration energy, which seems to be connected in some way to the time vortex (given the nature of River's conception and biology), enough to heal River or put on a light show in "The Impossible Astronaut," but not enough for a full, complete regeneration. Enough energy to slow his aging to live on Trensalor for centuries. But a total regeneration would be, presumably, another kettle of fish.

[@ChrisEllorris]

I had no idea fans were upset about the bonus regeneration cycle given to Matt Smith before he changed into Capaldi. I thought that was one of the best things Moffat had done. That whole bit is really my biggest complaint about the Timeless Child change, too. Chibnal's reveal kinda ruined 11's regeneration. Unless it was all a farce being played out by the Council on Gallifrey. Which means Matt Smith could have regenerated at any time on his own but maybe he didn't because he didn't think he could? It's a big headache now

[@J75Pootle]

My headcannon is that when the Division wiped the doctor's memory and forced a regeneration back into a baby, they also imposed the regeneration cycle limit on him. It makes sense that they'd be able to do it because they developed the technology to give regenerations to the timelords and to then restrict that number, and it also makes sense why they'd do it because they want the Doctor to just become a generic, run-of-the-mill timelord and you'd think he'd start to grow suspicious once he regenerated for a 13th time. That just means that when Clara petitioned the timelords in 11's final episode they removed the regeneration limit and restored his ability to regenerate an infinite number of times (it never says in the episode how many regenerations he was given, the doctor himself says "I could just keep regenerating forever")

[@thegeekyskunkgamer]

​@J75Pootle additionally when he faced Rassilon for killing Clara, even HE didn't know how many lives they gave the Doc. So this is more evidence that it was just unlocking his infinite lives.

[@private1177]

yeah dont know either. i quite like it how they gave him another fresh cycle. Its more the timeless child thing is bullcrap...but then so is everything chibnall does.

[@ChrisEllorris]

@@private1177 It's really a shame because I thoroughly enjoyed Jodi's Doctor. She had so much potential!

[@elaine_of_shalott6587]

Honestly I don't think it was that much of a fan complaint. I was listening to 4 or 5 Doctor Who podcasts every week at the time and I think one of them mentioned seeing a couple of upset tweets. The fandom is so big you can always find one or two people who made an outraged post somewhere about everything, its called the internet I think. It doesn't mean it was by any means widespread.

[@nebulacoffeecompany3334]

One big one was in Flesh and Stone when all of the angels moved on camera. What made them scary was how we didn't know what they looked like when they moved, how quickly they moved, and what they looked like when no one could see them.

[@WhoCulture]

Great suggestion!

[@warrenny1168]

Personally enjoyed that story but not having them move while viewed by the audience was a nice touch in. Blink

[@AlmightyCRJ]

I personally consider that a tribute to Ray Harryhausen's Talos statue in 'Jason and the Argonauts', that turns in a very similar manner.

[@minicle426]

The Angels abilities never made much sense to me. 🤷‍♂️

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

​@@warrenny1168 I'm blanking on the details of the story but couldn't it have done just as well (if not better) without showing them move I screen?

[@MarkwingDuck83]

That’s why you give the fans what they need, not always what they want

[@mrdj3130]

Just like the TARDIS, it doesn't take you where you want to go, but where you need to go

[@XDeserak]

"And that, children, is how The Batman became a Time Lord"

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

No that is why, if you're going to give fans what they want you do it right. Every single case here is down to poor writing or poor choices not the actual concepts. Case in point, longer stories didn't mean scattered mysteries into a bunch of, otherwise, unconnected stories. It meant a single story for more than one episode. The original series already proved that season long storys were a bad idea with Key to Time and Trial of a Timelord. Also, the Timeless Child was just a really dumb idea that had now made the Doctor too powerful with infinite lives. Never again will there be any concern for the character's well being. That bit is especially bad now the Nu Who has established that timey whimey trickery can (and will) be used to bring back dead companions. Basically, there is no threat left, the Doctor is an unbeatable god with basically immortal companions who will be endlessly saved. What is left?

[@lunakingsley.7247]

​​@@LibraGamesUnlimited you are a hypocrite who hasn't watched anything in the show. Go fuck off dalek.

[@PrincessAshley972]

⁠@@LibraGamesUnlimited you know he can still be killed, right? It just has to happen before he regenerates

[@theiggy1474]

Giving a new regeneration cycle was brought up in the 5 doctors special... they gave the master one... If remember correctly...

[@thelethiferousmoose]

Yep, the in The Time of the Doctor, the seal is shown and the death zone is explicitly mentioned to establish that connection.

[@TheMoonRover]

They _offered_ to give the Master a new regeneration cycle in The Five Doctors. He didn't actually get it. Though series 3 basically confirms he got one during the Time War.

[@corvus1970]

Hell, even before that, in "The Deadly Assassin", we had The Master try to use the Eye of Harmony to circumvent his impending death by granting himself a new cycle of regenerations. As such, even the original series had decided that the limit of 12 was wholly arbitrary.

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

Yeah. It was kind of iffy them counting that time that he used the regeneration energy to heal but didn't change as one to make it an issue when they did and rally stupid to flow it up.witj the Timeless Child and the gifting the Doctor with infinite lives.

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

​@@corvus1970 it is but at the same time there has to be a limit otherwise there is no threat. If the Doctor can just regeneration for ever then why not burn off the odd life here and there for si.d greater good such as the Peter Davidson episode where the ship of people wanted his lives to cure themselves? If he has infinite lives then his lives become meaningless. Hell he could burn through a few dozen just trying to become ginger now. It always kind of bugged me that nothing was ever done with the Master's lives prior to Delgado. What about that dozen lives (other than off hand Jokes that he was various people line Gangies Kahn)?

[@dw7704]

People who don’t like what was done with David Bradley need to go rewatch the available First Doctor episodes It was well done

[@minicle426]

But he didn't fumble his lines constantly. :P

[@simongorvin2263]

​@@minicle426 it would have been a nice touch for him to keep getting someone's name wrong

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

I've seen the episodes. He was never so heavy handily sexist as he was in that story. If there was anything sexist in the writing it was due to the times they were written in not fro.tje character being such a jerk.

[@stevenedwards8353]

I just barely got finished rewatching all the First Doctor's episodes again and NOPE, the sexism portrayed in Twice Upon a Time made that version of the First Doctor (otherwise brilliantly played) into a cartoon version almost. The First Doctor often worked well with female characters, and took their advice and talked to them seriously. If anything, it's the 3rd Doctor initially viewing the female companions UNIT gave him as more of "coffee girls" that was the most quote-on-quote "sexist" thing about Doctor Who.

[@alfredvickers4054]

The First Doctor never looked down on women. The original version of the "smacked bottom" line was aimed at his own teenage granddaughter, specifically in a story in which he must realize she's no longer a small child in need of discipline, but she's growing up and falling in love, and needs space to make her own life instead of continuing to travel with him in the TARDIS. He never spoke that way to Barbara, for example. It was a disrespectful & inaccurate portrayal of the character, and a slap in the face to the man who made Doctor Who a success in the first place. Fans, myself included, were right to be upset.

[@CaptRobertApril]

I stand by the theory that those extra faces were Morbius' previous lives, not the Doctor's, yes, I will die on that hill.

[@peterman2625]

"Then you will die stupid." ~12

[@Lukecash2]

Yep,I thought it was supposed to be a battle between the two. If the creators meant anything else, they fell down on the job,

[@corvus1970]

Yeah, a lot of people cling to that. It's not supported by the dialogue, but whatever floats your proverbial boat.

[@drwfigureadventures]

THIS. Also royally screw the “timeless child”.

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

I agree. There are no incarnations before Hartnell, anything else is blasphemy.

[@eshbena]

The proper title of this ought to be "When Doctor Who writers are so bad, they can't even do really good story ideas right." The fans asked for GOOD WRITING, what we got... was not that.

[@polgarauk5606]

I liked all of those to be honest and enjoyed them all including Flux, Hell Bent and TUAT. Chauvinism was rife in the 60's and the doctor was a bit like that back then having watched all that are available from that time. I have noticed this trait in SOME whovians quite a lot. Also very short memories appears to be a thing too 🤣🤣

[@thelethiferousmoose]

Twice Upon a Time made it seem like the 1st doctor couldn't talk without saying something sexist. It wasn't really like that nor was it ever so overt. Yeah some stuff he did hasn't aged well, but it was never like Moffat portrayed it, he made it into a central plot element that majorly detracted from the story

[@polgarauk5606]

@@thelethiferousmoose I personally didn't see that even from the point of view as a woman. Yes he got sexist at points for which he also got put in his place but it wasn't the major part of the story and it certainly didn't make me think any less of him as The Doctor. I actually think it's sad people can't see all the good in the episode rather than those few bits

[@minicle426]

​@@thelethiferousmoose To me, it was just some lazy humour that fell flat. 🤷‍♂️

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

He was no more chauvinist than the times and not to the great extent that episode showed. All things are a product of their time and choosing to make such an issue out of it in how they wrote the character was a cheap shot. It would have been better to focus on the character's better qualities.

[@Yetaxa]

The first Doctor was never sexist. In many ways the second was more blatantly sexist, but the first was just condescending to everyone He saw all humans as beneath him

[@SupaKen74]

It seems to me that "They hated it" because It was done poorly. the fans are complaining when they get what they asked for because those that gave it to them did an absolute shyte job when giving it to them. If I'm desperate for water, and you give me dirty water that tastes like crap, I'm justified in complaining about it.

[@serioussalad4838]

Exactly what I think, Timeless child could have been amazing but it was rushed same with jodie whitakers death and other controversial things in the show.

[@minicle426]

There's no middle ground really. You either have to love it unconditionally, or you are simply just a 'hater'.

[@trashmammal9430]

@@serioussalad4838 The timeless child as a concept could have worked but it shouldn't have been the Doctor.

[@serioussalad4838]

@@trashmammal9430 real

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

Exactly.

[@meatrace]

Shouldn’t this be titled “10 times Doctor Who writers fucked up easy writing assignments”?

[@GabePuratekuta]

What happened to your voice, Ellie?

[@HellfireComms]

I'd be for the Morbius Doctors taking place somewhere between #2 and #3. It doesn't mess with the lore (they could just not be called Doctor) and respects the previous and future actors who take the role. And yeah, David Bradley got done dirty in Twice Upon a Time. The First Doctor was NOT like that and the meta writing really brought the episode down. Credit to Bradley and Capaldi for carrying that mixed episode on their backs, it was a heavy load at times.

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

Yeah, the way he was written seemed much more like a snotty commentary on the times the character was in that the character himself. Someone should have done their homework before writing the episode.

[@ejewart1450]

I didnt even know people were mad at David Bradley coming back as the first doctor ngl... I loved it! It accurately represented the show's origin, warts and all. The writing and the character WERE sexist, and 12 addressed that correctly, but they also showed 1st heart, his determination to help, his grandfather-like attitude to the universe, and his scientific thinking. Loved it ❤

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

It wasn't that. It was how he was written. He was made out to be an extremely sexist pig and Harntnel's Doctor wasn't like that. At least not anymore than any other character of that time and not to that extent. The writing was like they were trying to go out of their way to make him look bad.

[@Yetaxa]

while not particularly progressive, the writing was never really sexist, and the Doctor himself certainly never was, even if Hartnell himself was behind the scenes It was very insulting to the original character

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

@@Yetaxa Indeed. It was a product of it's time. I don't know what some people expect, a show from the 60s to be up to the standards of today?

[@private1177]

loved bradley as the first.

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

@@private1177 He's good, it's the writing and characterization that were the issue.

[@sanddagger36]

Wonderful clickbait title. if they fans had got "exactly" what they had wanted, they would not have hated it. They did not get exactly what they wanted by a longshot.

[@wyattbarnett3877]

Have you seen the video

[@josephcooter5763]

I liked Flux. I felt the criticism was a bit harsh.

[@DavRossTheWhovian]

I don't care what people say Steven Moffat gave the show a reason to go on for 50 years more.

[@cheapfinish6224]

But does it need to?

[@DavRossTheWhovian]

@@cheapfinish6224 who knows

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

It really undercuts the drama though. The Doctor's lives are meaningless now. He can just burn through them with no worries now.

[@martythemartian99]

I like watching Doctor Who. I have done since the late 1960s. All so called fans should be just like me, and simply take it as it comes. No whining, no complaining. There were some stories and characters I didn't like, but every show has its ups and downs. As long as it is there for us to enjoy, that is all that matters. I have spoken! Heed my words and marvel at my wisdom. :)

[@sarahglover3286]

Doctor Who Fans: Complain every time Gallifrey's destroyed Want episodes on Gallifrey Complain about every episode on Gallifrey Sounds about right!

[@minicle426]

Are they the same fans though? 🤔

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

Well, it is repetitive to do a whole thing about bringing it back just to destroy it and there is nothing g wrong with it being g back and just not going there all the time.

[@danyaelle1753]

Great vid except for a certain gripe I have whenever anyone says it: the doctor is not the timeless child. The doctor used to be the TC before a chameleon Arch changed them to a gallifreyan. Then after school, the doctor became a timelord and ran away (with a limit on regenerations). Unless the doctor ever opens the watch, he is now just a timelord with a new set of regenerations.

[@rhodrage]

I don't blame people for not understanding this. But you're right. Hartnell to Smith is the first of those Cycles with the 13 lives, Capaldi onwards is a second of indefinite amount, not even Rassilon knew how many they gave him. Good job too, as we've already had 4 regens in that second cycle, Capaldi, Whittaker, Dhawan, Whittaker, Tennant and then a 5th to Gatwa. Just burning through them.

[@Captain_Maeve]

Did I miss something or this in expanded media?

[@adamstewart9052]

​​@@rhodrage I don't know if the forced regeneration from Whittaker-Dhawan counts as using up a regeneration because it was reversed.

[@9nikola]

@@Captain_Maeve It was explained at the end of series 13 I believe.

[@alexanderdumas123]

Re: Thasmin. To me when the 'Fam' was first introduced in 'The Women Who Fell to Earth', they planned to pair up Ryan and Yas (don't know what that pairing would have been) as a slightly low key call back to Rory and Amy, given that they suggest that Ryan and Yas were former school chum who lost contact, IMO. It was only after the Thasmin pairing got so popular online that DW producers diverged from their plans.

[@ThorstenWieking]

Same thought here, especially after the sidestreet talk in Rosa after escaping the cop busting into the motel room.

[@ThwaryesTheIvattEngine]

I had a feeling that that's what they were attempting during Whittaker's first season. What I also thought was that Whittaker was also Kate, turns out I was wrong thanks to Power of the Doctor

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

See that is one of the things about Nu Who I really don't care for, the inclusion of explicit romantic relationships (especially between the Doctor and companions). I think the way the original series handled it was better. This is t a soap opera or something.

[@stevenkarmazenuk2540]

13 was ASEXUAL; she even said it: "I could, but I don't, but I used to, but if I did, it would be with you." the number of times I've felt that way...don't dismiss that ace ship.

[@weatherwitchandfelinefamiliars]

Pretty much every Doctor has been asexual. Frequently oblivious to interest in them awkward responses, etc all the stuff that goes right on over our heads 😊😂 I'm ACE/ARO myself 😊

[@stevenkarmazenuk2540]

@@weatherwitchandfelinefamiliars Yeah, but 13 was OPENLY Ace; the rest were just oblivious himbos.

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

I never liked the idea of romantic connections between the Doctor and his companions anyway. It always felt weird.

[@phoenyx.21]

​@@LibraGamesUnlimited get a LIFE ive literally seen you replying to every comment, touch grass blud

[@rac3502]

I don't like the idea that the doctor has infinite regenerations as that feels too safe and takes away the risk

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

Especially since we've seen the show is willing to use time travel to indo companion deaths. Now the only people at risk of dying are random guest stars who, thanks to shorter runtimes, we don't have time to bud a connection with.

[@gestaltdude]

In retrospect, I think the 1996 movie failing as hard as it did was a massive boon to the show. I remember those days (and the movie) and honestly cannot see how any way that the version we were being offered in the movie could have led to a long lasting series. Knowing the US TV networks tendency to cancel any thing that doesn't immediately click with their audiences (Police Squad!), I can very easily imagine a hybrid US/UK show being pulled off the air after maybe half a season, if that. The US network mindset simply doesn't seem able to accurately replicate UK TV shows (I know nothing of The Office and will not comment), as seen by repeated attempts to transplant popular UK shows such as The Young Ones, Ab Fab, Red Dwarf, and Fawlty Towers.

[@ryancoulter4797]

I’ve thought it would be more interesting if it turned out to be The Master who extended the reincarnations. Then the Timelords would consider The Doctor a fugitive as he’s lived past his warranty.

[@The_Lone_Wolf]

I guess I am the oddball for a Doctor Who fan that loves the longer Doctor Who series stories

[@ggnova9851]

I agree even with a new season focused on one subject it seemed to short idk why they dont drag out unquestionable plots instead of making a plot that will be in our head forever and never brought back

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

I think the story should be long enough to be properly told. The issue with modem Who isn't so.mocj the length as the use of time. The longer stores tended to waste time with fluff leading to rushed and I satisfying conclusions. They would introduce si.e season long mystery the wait until halfway through the last episode to reslove it. Take the seasons with Missy. All season g.we would see her at the end talking to some character who died. In the last episode she has her Cyber Army, tempts the Doctor with contr if it and he simply uses the control to dismantle it and she stands there and lets him. All her talk about knowing him better that anybody and she doesn't have a backup plan for if he refused? Really? All that bums up and he self-destructs the Cyber Army in the last few minutes of the last episode.

[@The_Lone_Wolf]

@@LibraGamesUnlimited I agree with you somewhat, on modern Who not utilizing time during long seasons practically, when they should have, there are quite a few seasons/episodes where they really messed up the story and ending the season(s) halfway through the last episode

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

@@The_Lone_Wolf The issue seems to be that a lot of the time they kept introducing mystery after mystery without resolving the previous ones then, at the last minute, they had to resolve at lest some of them and it ended up feeling rushed (because it was) and unsatisfying (also because it was).

[@The_Lone_Wolf]

@@LibraGamesUnlimited I do remember that, and very much true for fifty percent of the episodes for me were this way for me as well.

[@sarahglover3286]

I think most peoples complaints about Jack being in Resolution was he never died! For anyone who had never seen him before he was just all talk, kept saying about being immortal but never showed it! Just one death! Come on!

[@Zibit21]

This video almost should be titled: "Things that DW fans wanted, Chris Chibnall tried to do but failed miserably".

[@Jessica-ec7pj]

nothing was wrong with thasmins ending, if you really watch and think about it, it’s good that nothing more happened between yaz and 13 bc it would have made it harder for yaz to leave the doctor when she regenerated, and yaz knew she had to leave 13 cause the doctor who came next would not be *her* doctor. it was perfectly done

[@stargazer1682]

I liked David Bradley as the 1st Doctor. I get what they were trying to do with some of his characterization, but I think they could have reconciled it better. The Sarah Jane Adventures was pretty great. Torchwood was okay; and honestly I think the only time it was great was "Children of Earth". I don't have a problem with an adult themed spin-off set in the Whoniverse, but I think veered a little too hard in that direction. Sometimes subtlety, even when you're trying to push the envelope, can make your point just as effectively, if not more so. And sometimes it seemed to substitute an actual plot with sex - just for the hell of it; and because the characters are insatiable. The world is ending, but Jack has to pop into a club to have a random hook-up (twice, if memory serves, from "Miracle Day". Honestly, I only saw it once, but I didn't really follow the plot of Flux. I don't actually recall what happened. It didn't actually seem important enough to care. The Timeless Child just seemed contrived. The Master killed all the other time lords, destroyed Gallifrey; super easy, barely an inconvenience. And oh, we're going to make the Doctor special for the sake being special, which the Doctor didn't need, because the Doctor was already special for what they do. That should be the easiest to (hopefully) retcon out, because the biggest issue of all is, why the hell would anyone believe a single word the Master says?? He could tell you the sky was blue and he'd probably be lying, especially if you were supposedly on Gallifrey. There are other ways, arguably better ways, of reconciling the Morbius storyline. Jack's appearance to get the Doctor out of the Stormcage just seemed beyond convenient. They setup this big story point of, oh no, the Doctor's been arrested and put in this super max space prison. And then Jack breaks her out within 5 minutes. Again, super easy, barely an inconvenience. Ryan George would have a field day. No stakes, no consequences.

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

It felt to me like what they were trying to do was show how sexist the show was in the past and how much better their version is. Not appreciated at all and kind of petty.

[@danielgertler5976]

I was more mad that the master had destroyed galafray in that timeless child episode. Like we had only just gotten the timelords back and hadn't even really had a chance to explore stories with them returned and suddenly WHOOP! gone. Though yes the timeless child will end up being bad since they'll never end up actually doing anything with the revelation.

[@TheManInBlueFlames]

Fan service doesn't matter if it doesn't make any sense...or it's tokenism. If you were writing purely for fan service, you should have done it from the beginning of your run!

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

I would hardly call any of the things listed fan service.

[@charlesharrison4531]

I actually have two theories as to why the time lords gave the doctor a new regeneration cycle, despite him being the timeless child. Theory 1. The Doctor had been stripped of his infinite number of lives, and was genuinely on death's door when "11" grew too old to carry on, but with Clara's plea for help, the time lords restored his ability to regenerate infinitely, even allowing him to regenerate into some of his old faces (*Ahem* Power of the doctor *ahem*) Theory 2. The doctor still had his infinite number of lives, but the timelords gave him a new cycle of regenerations to prevent the doctor from finding out he was more than a timelord. He was a god. They also probably would have done this, because they knew that if the master found out, he would likely be pissed, and send Gallifrey back to the stone age, As well he's technically a product of the doctor.

[@charlesharrison4531]

Like it, hate it, ignore it, I don't mind, both of these theories just help me sleep at night 🤣

[@corvus1970]

I never had to ponder that. For me Theory two was the obvious answer.

[@charlesharrison4531]

@@corvus1970 yeah, agreed ☺️

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

Theory three: the timeless Child is a very bad idea and a last minute retcon created just to annoy long time fans and diminish the importance of the past Doctors by making them just links in an endless chain.

[@stevenedwards8353]

"Brain of Morbius" never needed to be "explained". It had already been fully retconned years ago by the likes of Deadly Assasin, Mawdryn Undead, and Five Doctors. For almost 47 years, it was considered a rejected throwaway idea until Chibnall and crew decided there needed to be female and non-white Doctors before Hartnell.

[@igorschmidlapp6987]

Again, fans maybe wanted spinoffs, but NOT crap spinoffs. They didn't get "exactly" what they wanted. See, I wanted an Ellie segment, but I didn't get "exactly" what I wanted. I got a wanker with attitude... :-P

[@theabraham8164]

Never give the fans what they want, give them what they didn't know they needed.

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

Or give us what we want correctly. Every single instance here is a case of botching what we wanted (some I suspect intentionally to teach us a lesson).

[@zyg9]

8:47 the numbering isnt dubious at all. The regeneration at the beginning of Journeys End HAS to count as one of the twelve in the original cycle. If it didnt, then a time lord can cut off their hand shortly after regeneration and grow a replacement, always keep the severed spare hand handy, and then whenever they start to regenerate in the future they siphon off the excess regen energy (regenergy) into the handy spare hand, then every time they are mortally wounded they can always regenerate without ever having to change their incarnation and the whole concept of regeneration is largely meaningless. It would mean every time lord has infinite regenerations and never has to change as long as they keep a spare body part in their pocket. And obviously war doctor counts too

[@brainlock72]

Don’t forget, Ten’s Handy Hand only existed because modern Gallifreyans have a “regeneration window” that basically renders them immortal immediately after getting their new body. Even River used this trick in LKH. “Never shoot a girl while she’s regenerating!” (Let’s also NOT discuss what Jack May or may not have done with said hand in the meantime! We know what JB *thinks* he did with it!😱🤦‍♂️)

[@brainlock72]

What about BBC’s “issues” with Barrowman, which we all assumed were in the past, until Noel got in his own trouble? John’s been blacklisted by the Beeb almost ever since.

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

Meh. It felt like that hand stuff was such a fluke that copying it on purpose would be one in a million. Also, the timing still makes it seem suspect.

[@martinjames6838]

Lol, when you talk about Spin offs I notice you didn’t mention Class….😂

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

We're trying to pretend it didn't happen.

[@Paccyd33]

From what I can tell most people enjoyed captain Jack in season 12 but I might be wrong idk

[@andrewcharlesclark2071]

Why do people hate Doctor Who episodes, even though they are Doctor Who fans. I like all the episodes of Doctor Who, of course there are some that I like more than others, but at long as it is Doctor Who, it’s okay.

[@kevinlindstrom6752]

It's just so sad to see so many people take something that is entertainment and it gives you an opportunity to understand love in different dimensions and then hate on it because it's not exactly what they expect. Can we please let art be art and "if you love it, fantastic, but if it's not for you that's okay too"?

[@marcgager6279]

‘Maybe we should’ve thanked Chris Chibnall’ Hahahahahahahahaha 😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@ianotimelord]

Dr and Yaz storyline was forced. Zero chemistry between them. Here's an example of chemistry: Fourth, Doctor & Sarah & Romana 2, 10 & Rose, 12 & Bill. Who says Gallifrey stories are dull? War Games, Three Doctors, Deadly Assassin, Invasion of Time, The Five Doctors, Arc of Infinity , Hell Bent all are enjoyable. Only one storyline that was dull...timeless child.

[@straydogsrock]

You forgot 12 and River - excellent chemistry in my opinion ♥

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

​@@straydogsrock I don't think of her as a companion per se.

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

I did feel like War Games was a bit too long. I saw it on the Pluto TV channel again the other day and it took soooo long. Granted I am mostly used to seeing the show on PBS or home video so ads are weird to me for the classic series.

[@antney7745]

In many of those entries, it's not that people hated them for what they were, but they hated them for how they were done. Incompetently.

[@joshuacurphey3242]

If I may say a few things: 10. Frazer Hines (Jamie) has had a dislike of the Revived Series because of it producing 45-minute episodes that each had their own plotline as opposed to the serials of the Classic Series (including his own time). In fact, people have complained about the lack of character development during while Ryan, Yaz and Graham were with the Doctor mixed with the singular episodes while the Classic Series also had three companions at a time for the First, Second and Fifth Doctors and were able to flesh out the characters. All the same, I've liked the Revived Series apart from 13) as much as I did the Classic and not based on the episode runtimes. 9. The final appearance of the Eighth Doctor in the Doctor Who Magazine comics was The Flood, in which the Doctor faced off against the Cybermen. It was allowed by the BBC for the Doctor to regenerate into the Ninth Doctor in this story (which would've happened when the Doctor defeated the Cybermen by absorbing the heart of the time vortex, which is ironic), but the Doctor had a companion in the story, Destrii, and they couldn't think of a good way to write her out. 8. I don't have much to comment about this since I've not liked one bit of Jodie Whittaker and Chris Chibnall's time on the show, but I all the same think that how the first ever companion return overall in 13 years (which also when Jack last appeared in a major in the show) was treated with disrespect. 7. Couldn't we have just had the "Morbius" Doctors go unexplained? That was the whole point of the Cartmel Masterplan from the 1980s, to add to mystery back into the show. 6. I've thought that David Bradley was rather good as the First Doctor, following how he portrayed William Hartnell in An Adventure In Time and Space. The First Doctor as originally played by Hartnell did tend to be rather sexist, which is what Bradley was also doing. 5. When me and my family all got together to watch Class, my sister stated a shock at how it was because she thought it would be like how The Sarah Jane Adventures was but actually was more like Torchwood (and while I've liked all of the spin-offs, I liked The Sarah Jane Adventures more but hated Torchwood after it's second series). 4. Again, I have no support of the 13th Doctor being with Yaz and believe a lot of fans would feel the same. 3. I actually rather liked The Two Doctors (despite the complaints). 2. I admit that the number arrangement is quite hard now, but I've not minded it overall. 1. I've actually rather like the stories set on Gallifrey.

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

I largely agree, especially with the stuff about the 13th Doctor. This modern idea of regeneration crossing genders is so out of nowhere. Nothing we've seen (outside of stuff the show did specifically to set it up) supports it. I doubt a society where people change gender randomly would have a world line grandfather (which is what Susan always called the Doctor). In addition, the actress clearly did not like (or understand) the show before her arrival and clearly showed a lack of comment or even basic professionalism in the re (her comments about the show itself and her unwillingness to change her accent show this clearly). I disagree that the First Doctor was sexist. At least I don't believe he was any more sexist than anyone else at the time was and the classy thing to do would have been to not make such a point of it. It felt like they over did that single aspect to the point that it became his primary (or even only) trait because the writers wanted to make a point about it. The character was in the Five Doctors and it didn't show him acting that way. He was grumpy sure, maybe a bit dismissive of pretty much everyone ybit not especially sexist. Again, it just felt like there was a very conscious effort to comment on the past by really ayk g that up and it added nothing to the story but to make the first Doctor look bad.

[@joshuacurphey3242]

@@LibraGamesUnlimited I never thought of the First Doctor as sexist myself. I've just heard people say he was.

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

@@joshuacurphey3242 That is the point. I don't think he was either, if there was anything in the show that was (by today's standards) sexist it's because of the times it was made in. The trouble is they wrote the character like he was sexist and ramped the sexism up to 11 just to make a point that the show was sexist back then and the current show is so much better now because it's not.

[@Scottlp2]

Star Trek Discovery has been cancelled and Star Trek Strange new Worlds gave fans what they wanted and got ratings as good as The Orville. The choice is simple.

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

The issue seems to be people in charge who don't care and do what they want or what they think will bring in new people even if it costs them the fans they have already.

[@doppelganger3992]

Morbious thing was great for debate and fan theory but if you take a fan theory and make it canon poof the debate is gone. Fans are fine with not having every question answered, there should be some mystery to the Doctor.

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

Yeah, I think we all understood the real world eximation.of what went on and were happy to leave it at that. The timeless chime thing was just pointless. Never upend your entire continuity unless you are really sure it's worth it and it wasn't.

[@GingerChic87]

The two times I laughed this video was the “two of three” comment and the last example cause I actually liked that two parter.

[@DigitalBath742]

The only one that I hated was the resetting of the regeneration cycle. I was hoping for a Valeyard vs Doctor rematch... but nope.

[@9nikola]

If I remember correctly, the Valeyard was "between his 12th and last" regenerations, so technically it could still happen at any time.

[@mattevans4377]

I don't think the problem is people being given what they want, I think It's the fact it's done poorly. People want the thing they want, as well as good writing and good stories.

[@ellie.b.e.]

Exactly, I agree. We still want what we want just better executed. For example, I loved the idea of a female doctor and was excited by the casting of Jodie. I think she did as well as she could with what she was given, but the writing and direction took a real turn into nonsense.

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

​@@ellie.b.e. I don't know I can't.loomoast her disrespect for the classic series and her talking about not even bothering to watch the last episodes when she was cast. She constantly looked down her nose at the show and that doesn't sit well with me. Also the concept of transgender regeneration felt tacked on at this point. It felt like it should have been set up early in the new series (as a consequence of the Time War making regeneration wild because the High Council was no longer controlling it) or it should have been treated as something new. Also, given the past Master's attitude toward women (and even Simms Master's reaction to being a woman) the Missy version should have been way less content with it.

[@josephchambers2000]

Well, I liked the Two Doctors.

[@Legendary3Dgamer]

Shawn u sound deep idk why 😂

[@euan9711]

Carrying on from the 13 regenerations the doctor starts to regenerate in the impossible astronaut but yet he shouldn't have even started regenerating if he had no more left. So why in the first place does he regenerate there since by his final episode he can't without the help of the timelords.

[@9nikola]

That was the Teselecta pretending to be the Doctor dying mid-regeneration. The Doctor didn't need to reveal that he had no more regenerations.

[@cheapfinish6224]

I think Deadly Assasin, Five Doctors, Day of the Doctor and Hell Bent are great Gallifrey based stories, but yeah, I don't miss the planet and it's destruction in series 12 for me was a highlight of the otherwise dodgy timeless child arc.

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

I don't know why it was brought back just to destroy it all over again. I hate when stories do that. Make up your mind show. Also, just because it's around doesn't mean it has to be the show. The kmd series didn't use it a lot. I would also really like to see the Rani and Romana again.

[@alfredvickers4054]

"We should thank Chibnall for blowing [Gallifrey] up." We should thank the worst showrunner in the show's history for his terrible writing and completely undermining the Doctor's triumph ("Gallifrey Falls No More") in the 50th anniversary special??? How about, "NO!"

[@SleepyCatten]

The common thread of many of these is Chris Chibnall just not being a good showrunner. I'm so glad that Russell T Davies is returning.

[@Concreteowl]

I love the Two Doctors.

[@igorschmidlapp6987]

The FOXTV movie was an attempt at a US TV pilot that failed miserably. Paul McGann should never been cast PERIOD. The Fox TV movie was NOT what fans wanted.

[@MrSukram777]

Alternate title: "10 times Doctor Who tried to give fans what they wanted, but badly executed".

[@jawyoga]

Moffat still mis-numbered the Doctors. I forget which Doctor but either Tom Baker’s 4th or Peter Davidson 5th gave up a regeneration to save an alien species. So technically David Tennant’s 10th Doctor putting regeneration energy into the hand would have been the use of his 12th and final regeneration once the War Doctor became included in the numbering. (Sorry Matt Smith your 11th Doctor shouldn’t exist.)

[@codyfeisel6970]

What if the Morbius Doctors are the "Doctor" but they are hfvjdnfjednbcfvhudfujx or whatever their real name is. Because they said that the War Doctor didn't go by the Doctor.

[@just_kos99]

Maybe this is common knowledge, dunno, but we learn in Classic Doctor Who that there is such a thing as getting a new cycle of regenerations. That's what the Time Lords offer the Master as a reward, if he goes into the Dead Zone and retrieve the Doctor's various incarnations stuck there. So Moffat wasn't just selling out, when "11" got a new cycle of regenerations. As for the Sixth Doctor killing the dude in "The Two Doctors", the bad guy was literally seconds away from murdering the Doctor. Any Whovian knows that the Doctor will resort to violence as a last, desperate effort if needed to save his own life.

[@21Michichi]

"The same criticisms nu who episodes receive" no, the same criticisms Chibnall episodes receive. And frankly, other than the massive gigantic plot hole thats never addressed (the universe was destroyed but they all just go back to exploring like it never happened), I liked the Flux. It was the only thing in Chibnall's era that I genuinely enjoyed

[@alfredvickers4054]

"Dubious numbering" What are you talking about? The regeneration thing Moffat did was a good idea. The War Doctor was a nice twist, and the 10th Doctor used a whole regeneration to heal his wounds, then redirected the remaining energy into the severed hand to keep the same form-- would it have made any sense if that one didn't count? Moffat did the right thing in dealing with the 12 regeneration limit and setting up the show for years or decades to come. It's not his fault that Chibnall ruined it with the Timeless Child nonsense.

[@BigFanOfManyThings]

I’m glad nothing else came of thazmin. The doctor can’t fancy everyone he/she travels with, no matter who ships them or how big of a historical moment it would be . They can have great friendship chemistries, that’s it. Rose was the exception because she was who the doctor needed after he had just survived the time war. Many fall for the doctor, the doctor can’t fall for just anyone, they aren’t Jack Harkness.

[@williamfrancecamera]

I want to amend no.10 to say "A Proper (well written) series long arc". if Flux wasn't the result of a pandemic, and a writer with a lacklustre record, I don't doubt that it would've turned out so much better

[@charlesmwolf]

sorry, but the title in of itsself is a blatent lie. giving fans "exactly what they wanted" is utterly wrong for most of the stuff on this list. its just Soulless theft of ideas from the fans without keeping to the context and continuity of the history in the series to date. where your taking the 'word' of what people want, but not the spirit. the fans ask for more connection between the stories, but to make a story so blatantly opposed to a majority of the fans sensibilities, the amount of times the 13th doctor felt like the writers had to make a political commentary about men being bad in comparison to the new female doctor, ruined a lot of peoples enjoyment of the show, especially when the 'entertainment' side of the story writing is negatively effected in order to inject this awkward political commentary from listening to the bots on twitter. to the point is that while 12 'regenerations' is an arbitrary number overall 12 regenerations was a huge aspect of a timelords mindset, it gave the doctor a finite timeframe in which limited him, so the very fact of removing that limit for the doctor, you remove a huuuuge part of their flaws, and removes 99% of the tension the doctor could portray and feel about the concepts of death. The first doctor meeting the 12th as he did, had the CHARACTERs portrayal overtly emphasize the ideals of the past in OUR reality, rather then what the portrayal on the screen would have been on the screen. Essentially it changed the first doctor from being fairly progressive for his time, into overtly sexist portrayal compared to our modern sensibilities. of course the fans hated it, it was massively disrespectful. Romances with the doctor are always awkward, i dont think most whovians are sitting here hoping for people to hook up with the doctor, because the doctor should be relatively alien and asexual compared to the humans around the respective actor. The problem, finally, with the Gallifrey connundrum, is very simple. no ones asking for shows ON Gallifrey, per say, but rather what they 'mean' / 'want' is actually to be given that view into the doctors backstory more, they want more compelling stories that correspond to the Doctors past and history. Instead we fans are given shows 'on gallifrey' but they are more focused on showing us the dull bureaucratic Rigidness of the timelords, or its used as part of the plot of the 'current story being told' rather then being anything of actual insight to the doctors past.

[@igorschmidlapp6987]

Season-long story arcs suck in episodic TV. I thought that Classic Who struck a happy medium with maximum 4 -part "serials". Not too short to tell a good full story, but not too long to drag it out...

[@Trifilaki]

The Flux wasn't bad because it was a multi episode storyline, it was bad because it was badly written, confusing, and boring. That series never features in my rewatches. Those episodes felt like a chore to watch.

[@zachmegna7003]

When chris chipnell destroyed galifry, I'm my opinion it ruined the whole 50th anniversary for me, but then again, in the eighth doctor novels, galifray gets dystoyed too

[@frankharr9466]

Well, sometime we want things we don't like. And sometimes we don't like what good for us. The 70's having stuffy leadership and people trying to do things in spite of that? Sounds normal to me.

[@TheMrRMW]

I have to say, it might get a hard time for some, but I loved the two doctors. Bringing back PT was amazing

[@BritishBeachcomber]

The Yasmin+Doctor relationship would have worked so well without the other two, very weak, companions.

[@igorschmidlapp6987]

"What you do in the privacy of your regeneration is your business..." 10 to 11, "Day of the Doctor"

[@audacity_of_optimism]

To be Fair After a Disappointing Date with only Ice cream on my Lipps I would rather turn into David Tennant

[@davidaward82]

Capaldi's final episode had a fair representation of the original doctor, while he learned a little restraint and acceptance over the years, he still remained a product of his time. I get that people used to how the doctor has changed might be disappointed with his attitude, but that just shows how much he has changed, which was kind of the point of the episode.

[@Walesbornandbred]

It's a universal truth that you cant please everyone. If any of this was actually a problem and you seem to think it is then Dr Who would not have continued.

[@Joshml98]

Doctor who fans hating something! I am shocked, shocked i tell you... well not that shocked.

[@Austin_Rummel]

Thanks I hate it.

[@chris-hz2wd]

I agree with the galifrey point, the planet and people are boring, the doctor is better without it, I’d rather a universe with rogue time lords and just myth about the planet rather then seeing it

[@michaelpeden4033]

Funny how they keep avoiding the gorilla in the room concerning the thirteenth doctor not “not living up to expectations”.

[@williamwatson4354]

For a being that has been solidly male for untold centuries, is it really a queer relationship if she and Yaz get together?

[@alfredvickers4054]

Yeah, how dare long time fans hate trash writing and the undermining of previous stories!

[@stephenalt4652]

Implying the Fans 'wanted' anything from the chibnal era.

[@ruthalber4658]

Rose 💐 didn't understand the floor mat between us during the whole episode Ben Moore

[@Fenris77]

9:20 NO. The "Timeless child" is a canon hiccup most likely another scheme by the new Master or another of the Doctor's innumerable enemies.

[@ProfArmitage218]

Flux wasn't a single story. It was three or four unrelated stories mashed together with an attempt to make them fit.

[@thefowlbaron9514]

How do you state the problem plothole of the timeless child and not even recognize the plothole in the same breath at 8:56

[@chucklemeister1529]

Most of these can be ignored as they come from that awful spinoff, nurse who!!

[@andrewlaidlaw7975]

Or in other words message be careful in what you wish for as you might just get it.

[@colinmoore7460]

Some of those Morbious faces were Morbious, who was another Time Lord!

[@matthewhenthorn3343]

this list is a testament to the phrase: be careful what you wish for.

[@tracesizemore6736]

"You don't want your skittles?" Lmao.

[@xprophecy1]

I LIKE the Timeless Child storyline.

[@tracyroweauthor]

The Timeless Child was an abomination. Still is. It stems from Chibnal's stubborn refusal to accept that the faces were MORBIOUS' old faces and his obsession with proving his point by shoving it down our throats first chance he got. I wish you'd stop hating on Hell Bent. It was a great episode. Fan boys always seem to hate on it because they hate Clara (she and Donna are my favorite NuWho companions). In my opinion, Heaven Sent was boring and not worth a rewatch.

[@Yetaxa]

the idea that they were Morbius was never anything more than a desperate fan theory from people who refuse to accept the idea that there were Doctors before Hartnell everyone involved knew it was the Doctor it's made quite clear in the episode

[@tracyroweauthor]

@@Yetaxa there weren't Doctor's before Hartnell.

[@Concreteowl]

I love most Gallifrey stories. Blowing it up again was mean-spirited and lazy.

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

I agree. If they don't want to use it fine, but that doesn't mean it has to be destroyed. It can exist and just not appear in the show.

[@hollymatton474]

I love your videos Who Culture! Really interesting to actually think about how many things we have wanted to happen as fans, but when they did happen, we didn't enjoy them! 😂 Personally I think this is because we get what we want but it's not done quite well enough, or like the flux storyline, it's rushed and given a slightly useless ending. I was really disappointed with the way they ended yaz's romantic story with the thirteenth doctor. Yes she was amazing in the power of the doctor, but being dumped back on earth and having to go back to her old ordinary life just felt a bit pointless! Really enjoyed this! 😊😊

[@friendsofood-kindmediaprod4757]

Possibly you’re right, maybe we should thank Chibnall for blowing Gallifrey to smithereens

[@thetasigmagallifreyan]

South Pole

[@Timmzy27]

Neat