10 Unbelievable Retcons That Made Comics Worse

[@Ragamuffin-Guesses-cgc-grades]

Spider-Man sins past isn't divisive, everyone hates it

[@shindari]

Marvel: "We can do movies fantastically! But we're still struggling with this whole 'comic book fad'..." DC: "Holy Hell! This movie business is hard! How do you even make good movies about superheroes?? Good thing making great comics is still a piece of cake!" I mean there's just no greater evidence out there of the vast differences between DC and Marvel than what's going on right now. Even what each company is GOOD AT is in direct opposition!

[@trans8010]

@@shindari DC is not even publishing good comics right now. They're struggling with both. Marvel right now is actually righting their ship, while DC is bailing the water out.

[@johnnyskinwalker4095]

I hate the decision to make it. But I love the execution of Sin Past from the writing to the great artwork of Mike Deodato

[@Ragamuffin-Guesses-cgc-grades]

The art on sins past great, if it does have anything going for it it's the art.

[@fictionarch]

@@trans8010 they were doing great when geoff johns was in charge but the moment he left they went back into their old habits.

[@austindevine3883]

personally i like the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver being the children of Magneto

[@Paulafan5]

It humanizes Eric. One of the few touching moments in X-Men: Apocalypse (which otherwised sucks) was Quicksilver talking to Magneto and debating whether to tell him he's Eric's son. It adds a level to the master of magnetism, making him one of the best villains in all of comics.

[@Hellismary]

Exactly in my mind it hasn’t changed

[@1handedtyper]

Personally, I refuse to recognize the retcon because it was blantenly, and shamelessly done because of the movies.

[@agonleed3841]

@@1handedtyper yup.

[@austindevine3883]

@@1handedtyper seriously the X-Men were treated like crap at the expense of the Avengers for almost 10 years thank god for Hickman

[@KamisamanoOtaku]

The pure horror when you realize "One More Day"... ...is only #9 on this list! O_O

[@rossato2109]

To me its the first. Its the worst retcon I had ever seen.

[@KillerBlaze]

That’s how I felt with nightcrawler...

[@alejandrokaplan7243]

Otaku the new 52 isn’t worse

[@HeavyLiquidOfficial]

😆😆😆

[@blackphoenix77]

Sins Past needs to be erased from canon

[@austindevine3883]

how editorial approved that the first place is a mystery

[@johnnyskinwalker4095]

they should try to change it a bit. from Norman sleeping with Gwen to the kids that it produced. maybe she could have slept with Harry instead

[@morganrobinson8042]

Honestly, I think they just hope if they refuse to acknowledge it in any way they won't have to bother. Non-canonicity by neglect. It's not like they're fighting for it, they just repressed the memory on an institutional level.

[@Xtra_Medium]

They should have gone with JMS's original pitch The children weren't Osborn's but Peter's but editorial hated how much that aged the character

[@fran3ro]

Never read that... thing. Can someone explain me how Gwen hid her pregnancy?

[@Sunprism]

There was also a bit where Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver were the children of WW2 heroes Miss America and The Whizzer

[@erinbrown3744]

YOU ARE THE ONLY PERSON I’VE FOUND WHO REMEMBERS THIS!!! They even made a few references to it back in the 70s Invaders series (a Nazi trooper referring to Miss A as a ”scarlet witch,” and probably others I’m forgetting).

[@mikewilson3581]

Yes, and The Whizzer's history with Miss America dying and Nuklo was a tragedy. I did enjoy Robert Frank's appearances in the 70's Avengers comics though. I wish Marvel would have made him more like Jay Garrick. A mentor to the younger heroes. And not die from a heart attack.

[@erinbrown3744]

I feel you on that. I feel like that whole family was shafted. I mean, look what X-Statix Presents Dead Girl did to Miss A. Sad, csuse she’s my favorite superhero that isn’t an X-Man.

[@gordonjamescowiest]

Number 9 should be higher up it's a train wreck of a storyline. One More Day ruined Civil War, this was the storyline which made me stop reading Civil War whilst I enjoying it. I could understand villains joining Team Iron Man or Captain America but One More Day went against the rule that Spider-Man was supposed to be built on religiously. One More Day broke the "With Great Responsibility" rule. I'm not saying it should be Number one but One More Day really pisses me off.

[@daverhoden445]

I'M saying it should be number 1. I'm still pissed off about it.

[@SchulzEricT]

Yeah, it should be #1. -The degree to which people hate it -The outsized impact it has/had on one of the seminal relationships in fiction and finally -The success, appeal, likeability, popularity of the hero (is there a comic book hero bigger than Spiderman? I'd think *maybe* Superman - the first and greatest... although Spiderman is obviously more relatable - and *maybe* Batman - the most popular in movies, so he has crossover appeal that Spiderman... well, has too, but perhaps not as much? I'm not sure I think that's true, but it's arguable). Hard to beat those three factors, I'd think.

[@goldenstatewarriors9418]

@Caleb Mayfield It was divisive on wether it was good or bad. For me, I immediately lose interest when Mr. Fantastic and Iron Man create a clone of Thor to hunt down their friends, and then start locking up heroes in the negative zone. I liked the ending, but that too was ruined by OMD.

[@dinosoid2000]

Blame Fox and MCU for Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver's ever changing origins. Their feud are responsible for most of them. I thought the Magneto is Xorn reveal itself was a heavily derided retcon.

[@reyemilio00]

I didn't initially like the Maximoff Twins retcon, either. It still makes older stories worse, but Scarlet Witch's solo miniseries makes the retcon a little more palatable. As for Xorn, I personally was not a fan of that reveal when it happened, and it has become even more ludicrous with age.

[@MrSafior]

The retcon alone make stop watching the MCU and stop reading the comics for year!

[@noahthompson2912]

The feud also had mutants replaced by inhumans

[@tmoney360]

Not gonna lie the change with Scarlett witch and quicksilver in uncanny upset me. I loved the dynamic between them and magneto.

[@MrSafior]

It make me stop Marvel for year! The fact it was made because of the MCU is also the reason why I don't watch the movie since the GoG.

[@micah4029]

@@MrSafior I'm hoping that they change it back since DIsney now owns the film rights to the X-Men.

[@noahthompson2912]

Magneto should've got a blood test

[@rodney2x48]

The fact that most of these are from Marvel and involve the X-Men says a lot.

[@jaredgarcia8638]

@Django Fett like replacing Chapel as Spawn's killer to tie in the comics with the movie, and Rob Liefeld was being a bitch about his character being used?

[@snatchadams69]

Or they skim Wikis for content which is pretty obvious since they leave out a shit ton of context to make these lists..

[@thek838]

Tbf x-men is just full of retcons and always has spin offs and new characters and these change everything. Ironically the reason why x-men has so many is cause of how creative it can be and because it so creative there is no direct timeline and new mutants will show up all the time. Just try and fallow one mutant and they will change every comic. This is not really a bad thing tho, just leads to more stories some good some bad.

[@abrasiveangel]

Say hello to Children of The Atom and Cyclops & Wolverine butt sex on the moon.

[@stvp68]

Mr. Leaky Boyles Scogan forever!!!

[@twelve11]

Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver and Polaris are Magneto's children. Period.

[@dakyrsed1]

No. Just... no. They have traces of Magneto's DNA because of the The High Evolutionary's efforts to enhance their powers and only successfully doing so to Wanda (which gives her the ability to handle her powers at Omega level).

[@xCoatlicuex]

@@dakyrsed1 Biological children, from magneto y Magda. Maybe Magda is desendatn from the Scarlet witch, maybe Wanda changed her DNA and her brther during Axis but biological children, That's all.

[@dakyrsed1]

@@xCoatlicuex Again, no... just no. No maybe about it. Read the entire run of Uncanny Avengers. There is no maybe about this. Their origin was confirmed in that series.

[@robertcarson2365]

@@dakyrsed1 and before that it was Magneto was their parent and Lorna was not. They changed it. Just because they make a change doesn't mean it makes sense.Some future writer can come and revert it back to Magneto being their parents.

[@dakyrsed1]

@@robertcarson2365 and until that happens, their current parentage is canon. So, not up for debate. Look, I really do sympathize with you guys on this but it's like when Disney nixed the Star Wars EU from the canon lore... it sucks but until it's reversed or changed in some significant way, this is the way of things.

[@MsTechman101]

Everytime Sins Past comes up I just accept that it never existed and was never in canon. Dumbest idea ever and doesn't deserve to be in the Spidey mythos

[@acecashman1237]

They never made Nightcrawler an actual demon by introducing Azazel. Azazel himself is a Neyaphem, a demon-LIKE MUTANT, he wasn't an actual demon from Hell or anything.

[@vincentfranklin17]

I don't know why they left that part out! It's actually very important to Kurt"s origin.

[@House.Of.Pain.]

Ace of Games you know WatchMojo I mean what culture doesn’t care about that type of stuff honestly I don’t think they as much about comics as they try to make you think I mean just cause they have a big fancy channel everyone seems to take their word for gold when in actuality I’ve seen several instances where they (WhatCulture) had messed up different things in comics there were times I’d even comment but some WC fanboys would try to talk BS to me to the point where I just said you win I’m done

[@acecashman1237]

House of Pain yeah that sucks. At least with here, the fanboys can't try to spin my comment considering I'm 100% factually right about this lol

[@theonlymatthew.l]

They never let the facts get in a way of a good rant I guess....

[@21pilotstillidie58]

@@House.Of.Pain. or maybe it's just that you know they are human beings so they make mistakes

[@mahoulbarry48]

Night crawlers dad is a ancient mutant that just looks like a demon, so hes still 100% mutant

[@Ize19]

Technically, if you inherit your powers straight from your parents, with no deviation, you're not technically a mutant. Nightcrawler inherited his form and powers from his dad, and his color from his mom, so he doesn't have a "mutation," but he's not an actual demon, no.

[@____________838]

In the Marvel universe, anyone that has the “X-gene” is labeled a mutant, regardless if their parents had the same mutation or not.

[@sly_cat]

@@Ize19his mutation could be considered his three digits if the skin and powers are hereditary.

[@davidjones272]

I never minded the xorn wasn't really magneto ret con, simply because the xorn magneto was written completely out of character. They made him an unnuanced butcher who kills innocent people, magneto was never an out and out villain. The xorn plot threatened to mess up his character.

[@____________838]

Wasn’t he high on a power-amplification drug(that was actually a virus or something) during that entire arc?

[@SgtSupaman]

As much as I like the character Azazel, I definitely agree that making Nightcrawler and Angel descendants of some spiritual-inspired creatures (demons and angels, respectively) instead of regular mutants was absolutely stupid.

[@colorcommentary5987]

Whatculture messed this up. Azazel is not a demon. He comes from a race of early mutants they all look like demons, it could be assumed that they are all his children as he has had multiple children across the centuries. All of his children are mutants just like he is. What culture did not do their research here and now they're spreading misinformation.

[@SgtSupaman]

@@colorcommentary5987 , yes, they are still called mutants, but they aren't regular mutants, because they are part of groups called the Neyaphem and Cheyarafim. This would mean they are actually their own species and wouldn't be just mutants anymore. That's why I say it's stupid. I knew about this before this video, so my comment is directed at what Marvel did and not at what WhatCulture said.

[@sophiawilson8696]

They are all mutants but there different KIND of Mutants that have not established yet or never in the movies. They are ALL just called Mutants

[@superthorc6894]

7:11 sorry but new x-men undermine magneto made humans Concentration camps and sleep with a minor Can’t exactly say that was a great use of his character

[@Kenshiro3rd]

Instrumentality1000 not any more he’s not. They removed his being a holocaust survivor from canon, recently.

[@SimonJohnOwen]

Finally Marvel got rid of Quesada, but One More Day remains a criminal act

[@FCSchaefer]

Brand New Day and Sins Past are abominations, there are no words in any language that can properly express the hate Spidey fans feel for those books.

[@Ramsey276one]

A Hamilton moment? Would you like a chair?

[@jackwells8107]

Maybe, if you're going to do an article like this, you should start by defining what a ret con actually is. I don't think either One More Day or New 52 either one qualifies. As far as I've ever heard, a ret con introduces new information that changes what you know. Neither of those cases do that. They're more like relaunches, in that they change the status quo but don't introduce new information.

[@jackwells8107]

@Mcheetah Sorry, I was going by the dictionary definition which is based on the useage originated by the man who coined the term, E. Frank Tupper, in 1973. It actually means a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events. Thus, Moore's Swamp Thing (SPOILER WARNING, I suppose) is a retcon, because it introduces new information (that Swamp Thing was never Alec Holland). So, by the actual definition of the term, just changing stuff wholesale isn't really a retcon.

[@VideoGameMasters09]

The New 52 was a Retcon mixed with a Reboot. It was supposed to be a reboot, but they didn't have the balls to go all the way. They tried to condense all of Batman and Green Lantern's history into 5 years while everybody else were just starting out.

[@RealRoknRollr3108]

Almost all of these are from Quesada's era, (Marvel anyway), so for those who think this era was just the best thing ever, well now you know it really wasn't.

[@MrSafior]

Quesada era have many flaw, especailly for Spidey. But it's doesn't that everything was crap. ultimate give us soe great book, the Avengers finnaly rise up after several year of quandara, it give us Marvel Knight and the MAX label. And I din't talk aboot the fact he made the crossover "JLA vs Avengers" possible.

[@MrSafior]

@Mark Grant Paranoiac gator spotted!

[@MrSafior]

@Mark Grant Perfect way to describe yourself, Grant.

[@MrSafior]

@Mark Grant Quotes are the intelegence of fool.

[@MrSafior]

@Mark Grant If you first reflex when someone show some independent touhgt is to laugh. Then don't be surprised when people call you paranoiac.

[@buhe1]

They'll probably end up saying that the Scarlet Witch, perhaps subconsciously, did a hex to make her and her brother no longer related to Magneto, since the identity of their "father" is still unknown.

[@Dave102693]

Or not

[@Roboprogs]

Dave102693 *and* not? 🤪

[@DiamondDogApollo]

Sins Past will always be the worst retcon ever. Why Marvel haven’t erased this abomination is a mystery to me.

[@morganrobinson8042]

Because that means reminding people it exists? I wouldn't bring it up either if I had any choice about it. It's disingenuous, but they probably think that's better than picking at the wound.

[@lamontabenson4886]

Because it's a awesome storyline :) (I'm 100% serious )

[@tranz2deep]

They want it as a study for the next time. There will *_BE_* a next time.

[@Prime4494]

What do we learn from this? It's that Marvel is way better than DC when it comes to ruining storylines 😄

[@jesusramirezromo2037]

Mostly cause Marvel dosen't do full reboots Most of DCs worst moments arent cannon anymore

[@thek838]

No it's just someone chooses to mention marvel ones more. Both have equally the same amount of bad retcons to mention them all would take forever and same if they talk about other comics not done by dc or marvel. Top 10s are purely the makers choices. So to make a choice of a top 10 list on that marvel is better makes zero sense lmao

[@darkstardarin]

Bonus one: Weapon X was Wolverine's idea.

[@dr.badtimes3660]

If they reworked Romulus into more of a Sabretooth-esque figure, he could actually work in the (X)MCU, should they ever get in. Let's discuss.

[@shaderax_storm6165]

But you already have Sabertooth, why have 2? Unless Romulus was a regenerated part of Sabertooth and wolverine that had bonded together to create a new being! Or just a big enough lump of one of them that regrew with a new personality... Has this ever happened? It's a bit too Madrox maybe

[@stopefinaround]

I like the concept of him being some kind of background figure, manipulating Wolverine and Sabretooth in order to perpetuate their feud for some sort of conspiracy reason. Heck, I'm even happy for that conspiracy to include most of the shit in Logan's life, but the way it was done in the comic was bad

[@LainK1978]

I don't follow the marvel comics most of the time, so didn't realize there was this whole Lupine story, but the race does sound interesting. And Wolverine could still be a mutant in it due to his healing factor.

[@micah4029]

Idgaf what is currently canon, I still consider Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver to be the mutant children of Magneto (alongside Polaris).

[@JP-eh4ee]

Am gay but am still pissed off at The suddenly Iceman is gay thing.

[@johnnyskinwalker4095]

If I remember it was the young time lost Iceman that came out first, right? They coud have just left it at that. They were alternate versions of existing characters anyway

[@MrSafior]

@JP You should be.

[@VideoGameMasters09]

I still say Jean turned him gay.

[@johnnyskinwalker4095]

@@VideoGameMasters09 pretty much. Jean turned him gay

[@22RiaKon22]

"Because comics." I really, really tried to get into superhero comics and this is exactly why I always fell flat. I love the characters so much (like Spider-Man, Deadpool, X-Men, Iron Man... act.), but I'd rather watch MCU, TV shows or a cartoon. Hell, even some fanfictions can do better than that!

[@ScorpionFlower95]

Same

[@Dave102693]

Agreed

[@mavrickindigo]

You just have to read runs

[@22RiaKon22]

@@mavrickindigo Can be more specific?

[@agonleed3841]

@@22RiaKon22 Get with a run...a specific universe made from specific authors..and stick with it till the end. If you're bouncing around trying to just get recommended favorites of multiple people from multiple ages/eras, with each of their own personal likes and disslikes, you're going to get lost a lot. Way i see it, and maybe because I'm a 90s kid...80s born 90s raised...so I'm from the era of reading being one of the hobbies to do...as all the tech we have now wasn't around. Way I see it, comics aren't long at all. You can get through MANY within an hour. I was in comics as a kid, but never REALLY into them..and that's mostly becuase I was acountry boy. No real comic store. Whatever I read came from library, friends or the grocery store. Anyhow...there's a website I found a few years back, free comics. Can't remember the name of it. But I'm sure if you just google something like "read free comics online" you'll come across it. Again..anyhow..I just looked up a run starting from a specific date in the 90s that I missed..and went either back from there to more orignal runs or just kept with tose runs till I finished it.

[@nesseihtgnay9419]

Marvel did more retcons. But DC did bigger retcons.

[@Dave102693]

Pretty much

[@TrevorCopter]

Ugh. Re 10: Chuck Austen’s whole X-Men run made comics worse

[@johnnyskinwalker4095]

you could say that about Austen's entire Marvel run. His Avengers run was also atrocious

[@IonTorch52]

The New 52 also erased decades of the Teen Titans/Titans history, which what I disliked the most about the New 52 reboot.

[@mark1eyeball]

Making Cyborg a JLA original member pissed me off to no end

[@fusionspace175]

I was a regular buyer of between ten and twenty books a month from DC since 1993, and New 52 made me quit buying comics entirely on a regular basis. I gave it a chance, I have ten issues of several books launched then, but on the whole I just felt that they killed my universe. Even with rebirth I haven't started again. Morrison's Action Comics was amazing, but it wasn't worth the price.

[@Itisoverthere-rw]

You forgot to mention how Mjolnir was retconed into a sentient space storm that was imprisoned into a piece of Uru by Odin, who was in turn retconed into the avatar of patriarchy and toxic masculinity in an effort to make Cancer Thor look better.

[@Paulafan5]

The solution for the Maximoff's is to make them Magneto's kids, but the High Evolutionary tinkers with them (little effect on Quicksilver, but Scarlet Witch's potentials are now off the charts). I like the connection with Magneto, it humanizes him, but it would also explain Scarlet Witch being potentially off the charts level powers. And maybe that's how we get into a universe with mutants. Scarlet Witch is experimented on by the High Evolutionary and she breaks realities to try to bring back Vision... and ends up with Mutants and Fantastic Four existing.

[@ScionStorm1]

Little effect on Quicksilver... He can warp time around him. In the new canon both Wanda and Pietro inherited their power from their mother, the previous Scarlet Witch. High Evolutionary kidnapped them because of their inherited potential and performed experiments on augmenting those powers. The result is that both of them are far more powerful than previous generations of their family. Pietro can affect time around him while Wanda can affect reality.

[@Relugus]

Chthon is the reason Wanda is so powerful. He imbued her with a fraction of his essence enabling her to access his ancient Chaos Magic. Chthon is an Elder God.

[@The_Notorious_N.O.E.]

And IceMan is gay now and Jubilee is a vampire for some reason 🤷‍♂️

[@Ramsey276one]

Wait WUT JUBILEE VAMPIRE!?!

[@jean-mi1825]

@@Ramsey276one NOT ANYMORE! She's human again. But sometime after losing her powers after M Day she was infected and became a Vampire.

[@Ramsey276one]

jean-michel Cathelotte ...seriously comics trying to get or recover sales can be REALLY WEIRD...

[@diggitydave75438]

This is why I only collect from the 1960's to 1995. Marvel got crazy after all that.

[@palladiamorsdeus]

I'd have to agree, 95 is about the time I started to fall out of love with the X-Men comics.

[@diggitydave75438]

@@palladiamorsdeus there was just so much going on with things being retconned and changed in general in the 2000's it was ridiculous. I know by that time there were more characters in the Marvel Universe so an overflow of bad story arcs/characters was bound to happen. But it just seemed like things got out of control in the 2000's. And I'm sure, many will disagree with me, which is fine. All this is subjective. I prefer the era of the 1960's to 1970's the best. But i grew up reading in the 1980's-early 1990's and i dig that period of time as well. I just think the 1960's-1970's was the best era as far as story arcs, characters, artwork goes.

[@louisduarte8763]

After '95, they went bankrupt.

[@fitzsimmons6064]

Kurt is still a mutant tho, just with demon-like attributes. He's not an actually demon. He's like half a one at best, and I think that might even be wrong

[@NIGHTWING9797]

Correct. His dad azazel wasnt a demon. But he was part of a sub group of mutants that looks like one but arent

[@WarriorRJR]

Too many, nitpicks in the way of some valid points. You've got about a top 4 or 5.

[@ryantwombly720]

What I love about this list is that some of the writers responsible have done brilliant work, proving even the brightest lights can have the occasional fizzle.

[@WoodyWoodson1984]

Tom King didn't technically retcon Batman, but he really emasculated him. I hate that guy and he shouldn't be getting work after the awful Heroes in Crisis.

[@GryphonBrokewing]

Technically, if memory serves on "Bland New Day", Mary Jane made the decision because she knew Pete wouldn't and she wouldn't make him choose between her and his aunt/mother figure.

[@TevyaSmolka]

GryphonBrokewing technically that wasn’t from brand new day that was actually from the awful sequel called one moment in time which was somehow even worst.

[@GryphonBrokewing]

Fair enough. Thank you for the clarification. I keep trying to forget the whole mess (it put me off Spider-Man, the first super hero to ever inspire fandom in me) but people keep bringing it up.

[@TevyaSmolka]

@@GryphonBrokewing your welcome man and i can understand that believe me i try to do the exact the same thing but its like you said it really difficult when a lot of people keep bringing it up.

[@Zethonring23]

Certain parts of the New 52 were fun like the Batman: Court of Owls and Green Lantern: Sinestro, other parts were groundbreaking re-imaginings of an already rich mythos like Shazam and the Seven Realms, Aquaman and the Trench and Swamp thing: Rotworld. Other reboots like Wonder Woman, Lobo and the New Gods were so god awful they should be struck from canon

[@SchulzEricT]

I hated the New 52 because they made every character I liked worse - most significantly so - as well as adding characters I hated which... I mean, that's going to happen over time no matter what, they're not all going to be winners, but in conjunction with the first, more important part, plus doing it over such a relatively short period of time, it really didn't help my view of the New 52. I pretty much bailed on comics after (because of) the New 52. But yeah, I'm not going to say that all the stories were bad. Good storytelling is good storytelling. It's just that the idea and the execution of the core concept to the New 52 was bad, IMO.

[@Old_School69]

What about Namor being retconned into a mutant. It turned marvels first super hero into just another mutant. He was a hybrid for decades before the term mutant was even coined.

[@tranz2deep]

Chuck Austen spat on possibly the defining moment of resolution in _God Loves, Man Kills_. Unforgivable.

[@larrywolf2509]

The Scarlet Witch/Quicksilver thing is easily solved. 1. They were born biologically to their original parents. 2. The High Evolutionary took Magneto's mutant DNA and did some splicing while they were in the womb. Ta-da.

[@acecashman1237]

Larry Wolf Jesus Christ, sounds more convoluted than how Batman Beyond was retconned into being Batman's son in the show's finale a-la Justice League Unlimited

[@blackphoenix77]

Or just have it turn out that Scarlet Witch altered reality while she was "inverted" during Axis to make it seem like she and Pietro aren't related to Magneto

[@hexum7]

Except, they were also ret-conned to be the children of two golden age heroes, Miss America, and the Whizzer- which is who Wanda gets her last name Frank, from, which is sometimes used to this day, sometimes not

[@Dave102693]

@@acecashman1237 exactly

[@Dave102693]

@@hexum7 wow....Marvel needs to stop retconning shit

[@RBEO22]

Lupines? Like the flowers Denis Moore keeps taking?

[@sophiawilson8696]

Most fans think that Wolverine and Saber-tooth and Wild Child and Feral are mutants but from the Lupine race of mutants.

[@Ize19]

@@sophiawilson8696 The problem is the actual explanation given is that they are a different branch of humanity (Lupine Sapiens). Yes, this was later retconned, but Feral and Thornn have cat mutations, so them being descendants of a wolf-like ancestor never made sense!

[@kinglyone7172]

#1 is easily making Iceman gay out of nowhere.

[@Ramsey276one]

AND THE METHOD!

[@kingdon7795]

Video should be titled 'How to ruin comics'.

[@abusername1270]

Number 1...replace stan lee with mickey mouse

[@ChurchillGeoff]

I thought Wolvies bone claws would be in the negstive list considering they lead to the era when a hero known partly for his sense of smell lost hid nose!

[@sophiawilson8696]

Most people ignore the fact/story of Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch are NOT Magneto's Children

[@MrSafior]

I don't, I still wait they adress the problem.

[@TevyaSmolka]

God the new 52 was a terrible idea and erasing all of that character development for all of your characters was a really terrible idea thank god the new 52 is over Rebirth came around and did attempt to fixed everything, unfortunately it looks like all of rebirth is now being undermined thanks to bendis nonsense.

[@SchulzEricT]

And they decided to keep the children (the shitty Robin and shitty Superboy) which is a bummer. I hate those characters.

[@TevyaSmolka]

@@SchulzEricT wait why why do you hate tim drake robin and Conner kent superboy

[@SchulzEricT]

​@@TevyaSmolka No, the shitty ones Robin and Superboy: Damian Wayne and Jon Kent. Tim and Conner were definitely *worse* in the New 52 (particularly Conner, his origin and development weren't nearly as fun as the original version; the original clone was much more upbeat and more in the tradition of Superman, whereas the New 52 version was "gritty" in the edgelord, shitty, Zack Snyder-y sense of the word. Tim was maybe the least bad New 52 character; he wasn't as great as the original, but he lost the least of what made him great), but those are my two favorite comic book characters. For that reason, I'm against a "new" version of either out of principle, but also, the moody, childish versions that we got that pushed Robin into being "Red Robin" (yum) was even worse in execution than in concept. And there's maybe nothing lamer or lazier than "son of" comic heroes.

[@TevyaSmolka]

@@SchulzEricT i gotta disagree because I love Jonathan Samuel Kent Superboy and Damian Wayne Robin especially as a team called the super sons which is really cute and adorable in my opinion, and personally in my opinion we could still have both tim drake robin and Conner Kent Superboy and Jonathan Samuel Kent superboy and Damian Wayne Robin as a team but that's just me.

[@Terminalsanity]

Rebooting DC wasn't a terrible idea rebooting DC on a whim with 0 editorial game plan was a terrible idea. That's something you plan out a year in advance with a clear outline and guide book for all your creative teams to work from instead they winged it because the editors at DC don't like doing editorial work.

[@jasonglebe3235]

Wait, Captain America being a Hydra agent all along isn't on this list?

[@ouroborosi]

Maybe because there is no single soul that reads comics that accepts that as the real steve rogers In away NPC Marvel can be labeled Marvels new 52 (with even less hart)

[@Painocus]

Becouse it wasn't a retcon? It was a time-altering/brain-washing thing that got undone again by the end of the story.

[@SchulzEricT]

@@Painocus I mean, a lot of things on this list weren't rectons either; they were using the term rather loosely.

[@MataNui.]

Thought people hated Magneto being xorn.

[@reyemilio00]

I did lol

[@ericmiller93]

I know almost every Daredevil run is great, but Samnee’s artwork was unique and beautiful in a way that no other Daredevil artist’s work was.

[@oldemceemoney1651]

Kevin Smiths Podcast is called Fatman Beyond now. I enjoy the videos. Thanks for the entertainment.

[@HarryBuddhaPalm]

I'm so glad I quit reading comics in the 90's because, goddamn, did they get stupid.

[@champcpr]

Earlier comics were the most silly though.

[@HarryBuddhaPalm]

@@champcpr True.

[@MatsuoTanuki]

2:11 Knew it would be on the list, just wasn't expecting it so low.

[@DantePD]

Thankfully, Wanda and Pietro's Mutant heritage will likely be restored once Marvel Studios decides just how they're intigrating Mutants into the MCU. I'd be anything that they'll reveal that their MCU counterparts are Mutants, whose X genes were activated by Hydra's experiments with the Mind Stone

[@artanshabanaj8599]

Where is the Deadpool and Venom thing from Deadpool's Secret Secret Wars?

[@network9568]

In the list of Maximoff twins retcons, didn't they also retcon back and forth whether the Scarlet Witch's reality warping was her mutant power, or chaos magic, or both?

[@amanzeihedioha]

Thank you for making that particular dumpster fire the thumbnail. Poor Magda😕

[@toddthesweatynerdguy1450]

Trying to say that any of the X-Men or mutants aren't actually mutants by way of retcon is always stupid to me. For example Nightcrawler, if he wasn't actually a mutant someone like lets say Charles Xavier would have known straight away. And especially when using Cerebro, I'm also 98% sure that Xavier used Cerebro to locate Nightcrawler when putting his "second" team of X-Men together.

[@DoctorTopper]

One More Day sucks... but everyone gets this wrong. It was pointless but it only retconned ONE thing. All the Pete and MJ stories are still canon, they just weren't "married".

[@IncredibleMD]

I can't at all blame writers for retconning any revelation of a superhero identity. Having your civilian identity be public kind of undermines the whole point of daredevil dressing up in the costume. One More Day isn't terrible for retconning Peter's unmasking, it's terrible for literally everything but that. In general, writers should stop unmasking heroes with decades of history before their run. Comic books are a serialized medium. You can't break down a character without rebuilding them. Trying, and failing, could create decades of problems for future writers. You didn't buy the car, you just rented it, so it's not yours to drive into a tree.

[@rossato2109]

Would put Spiderman One More Day as the worst retcon ever. Still waiting for them to erase all that nonsense.

[@VaultHunterKiriko]

Sins Past only #5? Really??

[@KiSwordsman]

7:32 I will never stop making fun of this. Ever. Everybody wants to act like this didn’t happen, it did and it makes main continuity Gwen Stacy shit. That’s unfortunate, but it’s a thing.

[@rudevoices9204]

I'm surprised there's absolutely no mention about "Doctor Light was a rapist before New Teen Titans" from Identity Crisis

[@maxmazzotti6651]

The Phoenix is thor's mom, worst retcon since one more day and hydra cap

[@chrismacolsen3111]

The retcons with the twins Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch is one of the worst thing Marvel did. Bring them back to a Mutant World.

[@Phantom9252]

The Widening Gyre retcon is less about making a Batman moment less cool, and more about getting a shot in against Frank Miller

[@reyemilio00]

Very good list...you call out a lot of pure nonsense that has occurred over the years! The one part I don't agree with is Xorn. I really enjoyed Grant Morrison's run, but that is one of the very few things I disliked about it. Magneto is my favorite villain, and he was turned into a bloodthirsty, irredeemable monster in that arc (although the scene of Jean and Wolverine hurtling toward the sun in an abandoned Asteroid M was fantastic).

[@jayhoward8212]

What Marvel did to Morrison’s near perfect run was horrific.

[@michaellee4276]

Morrison gave them an out. He mad Kick, the drug Magneto was on, a malevolent being. So he was possessed-- a Dark Phoenix situation. He only wanted to be a little evil, but the Kick took him over (and his 16 year old girlfriend), so he became the Marvel Universe's Osama Bin Laden (that was totally the parallel Morrison was making). The worst thing about Chuck Austen's Xorn retcon is it made no sense. It didn't solve any of the issues that Marvel wanted addressed. Eventually Claremont had Magneto just say "It wasn't me," and that was that.

[@matterstoyou2970]

LUPINES? Forgot about that crap!

[@Bearrden]

A firefighter told Kevin Smith that the heat wave hits you so hard you can't control what happens.

[@cristiancarrasco1682]

Do you get internet with those ears, mate???

[@GolfRanger13]

One More Day should be higher. Glad that you put it on the list, but to me, that is one of the biggest screw-ups in comics history. Not saying anything against the list overall. It's a solid list.

[@stanbarnes7284]

As far as I am concerned they ruined all of the story lines and I don’t buy comics anymore.

[@PapaSmurf11182nd]

The Scarlet Witch no longer being a mutant, related to Magneto thing was confronted a bit recently in Jonathan Hickman's X-Men run in 2020. I won't give away too much but it has to do with the creation of Krakoa, mutant society, and M-Day

[@thisjustincomics]

While I am more than certain it’s better than One More Day (which I will always refuse to read till the day I die) Renew Your Vows was just ok. Probably was only super popular cuz they were married. I for one didn’t like how the entire Spider Family has powers

[@michaelgriffith7033]

My favorite X-Man as well. Such a great cast in that era of the X-Men, too. And...yes...One More Day was a disappointment.

[@thachronic100]

I think a part of the retcon of Xorn not being Magneto was related to his portrayal after the reveal. Magnento (as a Holocaust survivor) would not consider doing some of the things he did (as was portrayed during his characterisation after the Xorn reveal).

[@Matheus-ql7mn]

I'm still wishing they retcon Nightcrawler back. That demon thing just ruined the essence of one of the most beloved and coolest characters. Please, Marvel, stop the nonsense and make it right, for once. More - use the original plan and make him the son of Mystique with Destiny (now that people wouldn't go THAT crazy and outraged about it).

[@jokerjjg]

Ah One more day, we meet again...

[@zwallyzool1974]

Chuck's X-Men was one of the best runs. The worst was making Nightcrawler a priest and a mopey character.

[@nesseihtgnay9419]

The best retcon is DC universe rebirth

[@Spawnwick_Boseman82820]

Yes!

[@WoodyWoodson1984]

Except for Batman

[@munjatkumo1929]

No NO NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! POOR NIGHTCRAWLER!!!!!! Also yeah, the Xorn-thing sucks.

[@JamieLeece]

I stopped reading DC completely after New 52. The only DC book I've read in the eight years since was Doomsday Clock.

[@MrYouwantmoore]

Didn't axis say that Wanda isn't Magneto's kid but Quicksilver is? Anyway they should be mutants and Wanda still needs to make up for no more mutants.

[@richardranke7878]

I quit comic books altogether because of too many retcons. I didn't mind the earliest ones because there was still enough of the past...but more and more of them appeared-and New 52 caused me to give up DC Comics all together. I was never a big fan of Marvel, but it sounds like they did their share of,"hitting the reset button."

[@dirus3142]

I'll except Highlander 2 as cannon before any of these.

[@code-chimp]

When I read the last issue of "One More Day", I went back to my local comic store and cancelled all of the Marvel titles in my pull file - it was that bad to me.

[@MasamuneShinto]

Erasing Vietnam? Wait a minute. Without Vietnam, there can be no Nuke. It is a crucial part of not only that character's backstory but also the backstory of Wolverine. Why? Because during the Vietnam war, Logan was hired as a mercenary by the US government to kidnap and torture US enlisted GIs in Vietnam, in the hope of turning them into monsters like himself. One of the most prominent of these kidnapped/tortured enlisted men was the man who would go on to become Nuke. Therefore, if Marvel gets rid of Vietnam, Nuke couldn't exist because Wolverine would never have abducted and psychologically broken him. Also, love or hate the Lupines story line, Romulus remains one of the best arch-villains of the Wolverine franchise and without his presence there would be a gaping hole missing from the mythology of Daiken.

[@ImmortalRimas]

My personal favourite retcon out of the DC New 52 is Wonder Woman being a Demigoddess. It’s the origin I always felt William Moulton Marston should have written all along as it makes the most sense to me anyway but instead of Zeus being the father again like to so many Demigods I would have written Hades as her father as implied in the Justice League 2001 Animated Series as it would have created more conflict in her story

[@TheBeardedFrogSage]

The problem with all these retcons and reboots is no one can keep up with the lore anymore. What I know of say, X-Men's history, someone else has a completely different version of it due to idiots thinking it's cute to go back in time to change things for their insipid movies. I admit, I like the first X-Men movie and see it as the milestone it is, I even liked the second one after some time... but then everything got weird. Way weirder than the Batman movies. It's like every franchise is going through the Spiderman clone arc... and we all remember what a fiasco that was.

[@snukastyle]

How to fix Sins Past: Norman's "Gwen" was a clone by the Jackal. One of the many he's made over the years. So easy to fix.

[@hjk5862]

that nightcrawler analysis was spot on

[@2199]

Who is Xorn?

[@Ragamuffin-Guesses-cgc-grades]

I do not acknowledge the widening gyre as a thing.

[@KillingTheBunnies]

No, the reason that it was retconned that Xorn wasn't Magneto was that it was a stupid storyline to begin with and majorly derailed nearly everything previously established about Magneto.