12 Controversial Topics In Fate/Stay Night And Fate/Zero

Discussions from fate stay night and zero that get pretty heated
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[@knightofthelake8112]

"Realistically there's no right answer." "Btw It's Saber" had me dying lol 😂

[@Readingsteiner690]

Same

[@arabbitwhocanuseinternet9657]

Nah man Rin is best one cuz ending seem like they were happy with less consequences. Cuz saber route I feel like both saber and maybe shirou die but they get together in their dream. Sakura route is where shirou die and need to be brought back in a puppet. How is he gonna fuck her anymore??

[@knightofthelake8112]

@@arabbitwhocanuseinternet9657 I respect your opinion but I'm actually more into sakura's relationship with shirou because it was the hardest one to actually make it happen. Individually though I find saber the best character of the 3

[@DiogenesTheCynic.]

Rin’s defenseless a…

[@darknessknows1235]

@@wrought-ironheroEMIYA which honestly isn't even problem given they've expanded on they ways people can transfer mana, plus, it's like the Master/Servant dynamic. Nobody says shit about Rin/Shirou keeping Saber or Sakura keeping Rider around

[@kris_k9635]

The VN gives a lot of contexts to Shiro's actions in the story. It makes him seem more like an intelligent human being with thoughts and emotions and less like a stereotypical hero because it takes you through his thought process. That is something I loved the most about the VN and I don't think you can truely enjoy a more complex route like UBW without knowing exactly what was going through his head (at least that's my experience)

[@ash8329]

yea but ive read the VN and i honestly for the life of me cannot understand first of all how anyone in the story can take this character seriously, regardless of his monologues.

[@Ahaha.Wave2]

​@@ash8329No shit, Shirou is kinda clinically insane.

[@ash8329]

@@Ahaha.Wave2 yes but for some reason people do...

[@Ahaha.Wave2]

@@ash8329 I mean, it's kinda interesting.

[@Anonlyso]

@@ash8329 Shirou's entire character is built on being a survivor guilt-ridden kid raised by Kiritsugu, possibly the worst kind of utilitarian father figure. His entire sense of identity is built on being a self-sacrificing hero, for A) penance since he so little values his life other than a freak miracle B) following Kerry's ideal heroism as "you SHOULD sacrifice one person to save a million" which twists into C) that one person should be himself. Like 90% of the VN's choices of what Shirou WOULD pick come down him putting himself into reckless abandon for the sake of others (or that one where you have to pick Illya over Rin, and she doesn't even get a route). It's also worth saying that half the cast DO call him out on his shit: Kirei outright mocks him for being a naiive hero, Rin keeps treating him as a reckless dumbass, Shinji exploits his """"friendship"""" and Archer exists. It's just that his character also serves an actual thematic purpose like with Saber , the girl who "sacrificed her humanity to become the ideal king"/hero (sound familiar). Yadda Yadda, Fate/route, them both mutually growing over undervaluing themselves for the sake of some "ideal" to also find value in each other [y'know, a romance]. Anyways, you need to treat Shirou as already fucked up in the head to a self-destructive degree because that's how he plays into the rest of the story stacked with other heroes. Turning around and saying stuff like "yeah Shirou totally should've just merked Sakura in her sleep" beyond missing most of the story, it's just straight Kiritsugu behavior and we all remember how he turned out.

[@AllOtakuProductions]

My only beef with Type Moon is their hesitancy to remake the Fate route! Loved how you ended the argument with "By the way, it's Saber" 😁

[@DeeonleeCobb373]

Unless they remaster Kenji Kawai's OSTs from the Deen adaptation, I don't think it'll land as well as people think it might. The fact some fans including myself think that Kenji carried Deen/Stay Night is arguably accurate.

[@IsSheShells]

My too XD

[@DiogenesTheCynic.]

Hikaru Kondo (Ufotable President) and Takeuchi (not Nasu) wanted a Fate Route remake but the rest of the Ufotable Production Committee said no way because it was not the best follow up to Fate Zero. Yes, you read that right, the president and Takeuchi got overruled by the staff.

[@Silbdog]

@@DiogenesTheCynic. And neither was UBW. Heaven's Feel is obviously the best follow up to Fate/Zero, so why didn't they adapt that first?

[@khronos2213]

​@@Silbdog UBW is cooler.

[@furiousdestroyah9999]

9:35 Absolutely crazy how in one route you can have this happen and then in another she sacrifices herself for you to live, acting like a "big sister" to Shirou

[@bombames]

bc in one instance she saw him as just an extension of Kiritsugu, and in the other she got to know him as someone separate from him. Also she's fucking crazy and her soup of emotions towards him makes little sense

[@Fermin-hw5pd]

Yeah like bombames said, at the beginning she sees Shirou as Kiritsugu's kid and only wants to kill him, but once she knows him she only wants him to live

[@bombames]

@@Fermin-hw5pd tbf the anime kinda glossed over that part of the development, they only I cluded their second talk in the park instead of all of them (I think there were three?) So it's kinda easy to miss that part in the movies

[@Fermin-hw5pd]

@@bombames I have to say I absolutely don't remember what they talked about in the park in these scenes, but considering you need all those scenes to get the true ending, I think they should have shown all of them (time constraints maybe)

[@bombames]

@@Fermin-hw5pd yea time constraints are big that's probs why they cut them down only to one scene. You don't remember probably BC they're a drag. You know how the VN is. It's fucking amazing and my favourite VN, but it tends to drag on in the conversations. Just look at the Mapo Tofu scene and what people remember from that, and EVERY launch table scene

[@shwedoo-6035]

Personally, I think people who can't empathize with Emiya's decision in HF are not even trying to put themselves in his shoes and prefer to make themselves into kiritsugu-like heroes of justice even if they would never actually follow through. It takes a special level of insanity to actually do what kiritsugu does. Each and every one of us is alive because of the connections we form in life, the people we love and the people that love us gives us meaning it is no stretch to say that they are often more important to us than the people we do not know or care about. Prioritizing the people we love in our lives is natural, HF just took it to the extreme. In the end I do not want to approve of nor criticize emiya's decision but I will 100% say that most would do the same in his shoes.

[@ssjokg4952]

Fate/Zero is even going as far as show how bad it is to be like Kiritsugu. People that read FSN before Zero mostly dislike HF due to Sakura or because UBW showed a "middle ground"(well not really) for Shirou's ideals. Although UBW is also the route that foreshadows his decision in HF when Taiga is kidnapped. People that watched or read Zero only/first somehow miss the point entirely.

[@DiogenesTheCynic.]

I can’t sympathize with choosing the worm goods 😂

[@mistake1197]

I disagree I think kiritsugu had the right frame of mind. Why the hell would I wade through your house of horrors and booby traps to fight you directly when I can blow up your house. We're fighting for a magical reality altering wish, honor and fairness should be irrelevant in a literal death match free for all.

[@ash8329]

​@@ssjokg4952 ive watched zero first, have read the VN and i still dislike HF due to sakura, so there hense forth an exception to your rule

[@user-en8tt4uu3g]

Personally I think Emiya's can't kill Rin, Sakura, Illya and of he did that he well turn into an uncontrollable self-destructive monster and deep down he knows

[@andrewgerardo2349]

I was thinking Rin the whole time you were talking about best girl till you mentioned Kirei in which I’ve never jumped off a hill I was willing to die on so quickly

[@thebatsbury8053]

Kirei best girl 🗿

[@levusen532]

Ya'll forgetting Issei

[@Erohimu]

​"Take off your clothes, we need to talk" -Hero Of Justice

[@murilopenagoncalves3831]

The Fate series can damage family bonds. My cousin and I heard it from a friend to simply 'watch the fate series', and since we both enjoy things in a cronological set of events, we began with Zero. It was amazing, we both loved and regarded as one of the best animes out there. But when it came to the Deen adaptation, my cousin just went halfway because he really despised Shirou for not being like Kiritsugu, and Saber because of that banquet. But I continued, watched every piece of media, read the Visual Novel (thanks to you Tsiah IV), and tried other contents from TypeMoon. Loved every one of them. Then one day we rewatched Zero, and actually started screaming at eachother. The reason; I said Iskander was an idiot for spouting things he didn't even know. My cousin, being a purist secondary, said I didn't understand that scene. A screaming match started. We got into trouble but agreed never to talk about Fate again with eachother, and he still hasn't moved on from Zero.

[@canaldecasta]

So Who was right in the end?

[@murilopenagoncalves3831]

@@canaldecasta In my opinion; me. But it just got tiring to keep talking about something we could never agree, so it kinda died out.

[@christianstephan7301]

​@@murilopenagoncalves3831 I would agree. When I first watched Zero I did not like Saber as a character. She was constantly mistreated and belittled by the series. In Zero Saber is not... a human being for the lack of a better description. She is only presented as a honorable king of knights, where she even gives up on advantages she has just because she is just "soo honorable". She is showcased and paraded around as a fool. Her sense of honor hinders her in her quest, her perception of war is naive and wrong, her companions loyal and yet illoyal at the same time due to her not being compassionate. The whole series stockpiles fault after fault for Saber without ever giving her a breather whatsoever. She is constantly mocked. We never see any of her character traits shine through - only her role as a knight. If we compare this with F/SN where she also tries to fulfil her role she is given more space to show how her character actually works. How she is kind of stoic but her nature shines through small cracks. How she is competitive, childish, prideful and a little bit of a glutton. Those are aspects she tries to hide and Fate/Zero doesn't even try to hide it, because it never hints to their existence in the first place. That's where I personally made a 180, because I fell in love with the character of Saber, because she is insanly nuanced. People always describe Saber in Fate/Zero as wanting to revert everything because she sees herself as a failure, where the truth is more akin to Saber feeling herself not being appropirate. She does value her achievements but she is convinced that there had to be someone who would have fulfilled her role better. She is keenly aware of her shortcommings. And since her main concern is the people of Britain she thinks that another ruler might have let Britain prosper for a longer time before falling. So no. She does not see herself as a failure, but lacking. Saber is shouldering much, much more than she is able to handle. THAT's what her story is all about. Saber is pulling her weight alone for her ideals instead of sharing them. The banquete of kings is infuriating because Gil and Iskander were on to something, but they slander her for her ideals. Her ideals were not wrong. Her way to go about it was misguided. But yeah. Hard to make a judgement about that if the whole weight of the role was nearly forced upon you, stripped you of your gender and freedom, with a witch trying to ruin your everything, forcing you into a relationship for aesthetics, forcing an heir upon you who is also weaponized to be yet another tool for your downfall. Her life was a constant battle of defending what she believed in. Easy to talk shit about that if Iskanders own ideals were all about striving forward towards new lands and opportunities. I prefer the uncertaintly of Saber about the question what is best for her people, which shows genuine love for her country over the pursuit of a tyrannts strife for fame and dreams.

[@grapesvine]

A lot of these problems come from Anime only watchers Vs. those who read the visual novel. I would love to see another video like this on Fate/Apocrypha , F/GO, etc.

[@spiralspural8806]

​@@ash8329j He's right

[@shamimmanua5094]

The part that i hate about tokiomi's act of giving sakura to the matou's is that he thought of the possibility that rin and sakura might end up having to fight each other to get to the root. And about kiritsugu, his desire to "save the world" isn't bad but when he decided to deliberately kill his wife for it I realized that he wasn't trying to save the world but is trying to save himself from the guilt of his past and his daughter and wife are suffering for it.

[@Ravensgale]

As someone who plays both Arknights and FGO, people who don't FUCKING READ the content in the game are on the same level as people who pour milk in before cereal. And yeah those are the same people who go, "tHe StOrY dOeSn'T mAkE sEnSe. iT's dUmB!"

[@pharaohj2130]

Tsiah, you remind me of an orator of old, that once would sing tales of the glory of heroes and kings. Even from behind these screens I can tell from your sharp analyses, your wisdom and wit, and your conviction in voice, that you are a Great man. Eternally subscribed. It doesn't matter if it's type moon content or just daily life. You are THAT GUY! Thank you for the time you've dedicated to this content. It's a hidden gem for me and I'm sure many others.

[@parkermaisterra8532]

So here’s a rather controversial take, Mordred and Kairi should have been the main characters of Apocryoha. I’ve seen people for and against it- hell I’ve seen Mordred fans argue about it

[@D_C_H_A]

On God, Sieg Should've never existed.

[@Imp3rdLord]

This is as far from a controversial take as you can get. Its basically bland.

[@HaruhiSuzumiya]

I think it would've been cool for Jeanne to be the main character and just have sieg removed

[@Jasons_Argo]

@@wrought-ironheroEMIYAAgreed. I think the writers pulled a “Tropic Thunder” and went full blank slate character, and everyone knows you never go full blank slate character. Oh, and plot armor’s a helluva drug.

[@ssjokg4952]

@@Jasons_Argo His blank slate state was great at the start thanks to his birth. The problem is everything after that, specifically the bootleg copy paste SaberxShirou development with Jeanne.

[@loverofjesusMKII]

Kariya absolutely has his major problems but I think he's not quite as bad as some people make him out to be. I think Accel Zero Order having him finally get his shit together and drop his bullshit to just save Sakura is proof he's not totaly a buster and that ending made me really happy. Man's biggest mistake was simping for a woman who would just let her husband give her daughter away. He should've just given up on her on the spot when he heard that bullshit and just been in it for Sakura. It would have been interesting to see a world in which he and Tokiyomi talked it out and he let the guy know what was actualy going on with his daughter instead of the two just throwing shade at each other. Also Illya & Taiga > main heroines. Speaking of which. I wonder if Gil blinded Illya because of her Mystic Eyes. I doubt they would affect him but it's just a thought I just had while watching. Also people who say Illya deserved to be brutalized over the bad end really are just cherry picking, and ignoring the massive amount of growth and development from the time she would do those horrid things into a much better person later on. Meanwhile Gil is just kind of a fickle bastard who can range from a pretty okay dude to objectively worse than Infamous 1940's German Man depending on how his current incarnation is feeling. DEEN/Stay Night was perfectly fine. Like if you went into this without expectations from the VN and knowing the routes are weirdly spliced at points, you would probably find it a perfectly good and compelling story being told. And the look of the show, artstyle and animation while obviously not UFOTABLE is genuinely pretty. I'll even go a step further to say, while it doesn't look as technically good as UFOTABLE, it does capture the original artsyle and atmosphere much better.

[@user-jn1qw5xp7v]

Best wifu has to be Archer knows how to cook and clean and be an emotional support sorry it's just him

[@D_C_H_A]

Never thought about it like this, you might be cooking...

[@DeeonleeCobb373]

10:49 Yes, the Deen UBW movie speedruns the route for a paycheck. Having watched it I do admire Deen's effort put in that movie. The animation at the time was high-tier, it does provide an enjoyable montage of all UBW route's fight scene, and it has an amazing artstyle that is nearly one-to-one with Takeuchi's early work. And the most hot take I have about Deen's UBW movie is that it's Shirou vs Archer fight is more faithful to the Visual Novel than Ufo's rendition. 10:56 Finally someone saying something accurate about Deen/Stay Night.

[@thesilverbeast6092]

The deen adaptation for the Fate route is what got me into this rabbit hole. Especially when you watch the second opening with Shirou and Archer clashing… God! The blue balls that gave me.

[@Fermin-hw5pd]

Even though you don't see that at all, it's pretty sick, I still remember it

[@erosama4887]

​@@Fermin-hw5pd I remember seeing that Opening and I'm like "Wait wtf Archer comes back to fight Shirou?"

[@idreadFell365]

Same, I specifically tried to watch each Fate series anime in release order when I started.

[@lukaschen3009]

Tokiomi had above-average morality as a magus, but only because a lot magi are wicked rascals to set the average very low. Tokiomi was still a bad person. He didn’t care when innocent people were killed, rather he was more afraid of magic getting exposed. He also didn’t care that his daughters might fight and possibly kill each other by his decision. I’m not even a tiny bit sorry when he died so soon. Rin is perfect as is and if her father continued to live any longer, he would have polluted her with those “mage norms” and you can only go down from the top.

[@johnsai4074]

Bro slid in that "by the way it's saber" 4:54

[@moosupernova]

Clicked with the quickness. It's interesting that some of my friends and I have had some of these conversations. And it's notable that you frequently mention the more Fate works you get into, the more your perspective changes, because even mine has over these years, and I'm not even close to consuming all the content.

[@Umbreon650]

The psychopath that became the hero in heavens feel.Every waifu in fate is amazing thats why there are so many to pick from

[@mikebt-74]

1. I liked Fate/Zero and I believe it works better as an introduction to the Nasu-Verse. Does this means I don't like other Fate animes? Hell no! I love them all! 2. For me it's Rin. 3. I can understand Gilgamesh and Alexander's POV but they were conquerors and Gilgamesh was a tyrant. I don't expect neither of them to have wanted to build an utopia like Artoria. So while I can understand their POV, doesn't mean their right. Artoria is every right to wrong her past mistakes, if she is given that chance. Because it takes humility knowing you messed up and wanting to fix it, something not Alexander and definitely not Gilgamesh can testify. Since the guilt they'd suffer would be too great, so ignorance is bliss. 4. He should've stayed out of it, somethings are out of your control. 5. Yeah, she should've left him die. Shinji is a dick. 6. She got what she deserved, tbh. You reap what you sow. 7. I don't mind which studiou does it. As long as they're willing to do a faithful adaptation. So far Ufotable and other studios has earned the street credit to be respected, imo. 8. He should've kept both of them, imo. 9. That is a tough one but Kiritsugu is a mercenary, that's how he wins his bread. It's not morally ethnical but he has more morals than Kirei does. 10. Shirou and Emiya are both wrong and right at the same time. While it is ethnical to be willing to save people, you can't save everyone, so you must do what you can. You can't, however, try to save someone while you yourself are in danger. Which is what Shirou often does. Emiya has grown very synical, so he sees it as choosing who you can save. It all depends on what you are deep down, are you an optimistic, pessimistic, nihilistic, or cynic person? My answer is that I'm optimistic, so I stand by Shirou but I'm not as naive as him. 11. I never read the light novels, so I can't say much. Neither did I play the games but through the anime and fandom wiki pages, to me it makes sense. I was just confused that Fate/stay night had 3 anime adaptations. After I read it on Google, I understood it's basically a story with three different endings. You can pick one as your personal canon xD 12. I agree with Shirou saving Sakura. Second chances are a thing, I believe in those and so did Shirou. And I don't believe anyone who instantly says "if Sakura was a loved one of mine, I'd still do it," taking a life is a great burden, you may think you can do it... but reality is often not what we make it to be. Nice video!

[@maverick5169]

I'll throw my thoughts about some of these - I don't like FGO, I just don't like the gacha mechanics and if I play a game about a series, I want to use everyone without paying for rng pulls. But since I don't play the game anymore I won't judge the story, and I do admit that some servants are cool. Ceasar is glorious and me pulling Mordred drew me to Apocrypha which I actually enjoyed - Zero is a cool series, but not peak fate imo. And I definitely don't think everything else is inferior, my second favorite Fate product is Extella Link. Pretty great game that captures how strong a servant can be, a musou is just the perfect genre for these characters - I have to side with the "coping" people, it's extremely hard to pinpoint who the best female lead is, all of three touch themes that can or cannot connect with us, so even if for example Arturia has the better objective writing, it's barely going to matter if another person has a deeper connection with the themes Rin carries. So yeah, enjoy your favorite. - Both Gilgamesh and Illya are bad people. I like to meme about Gil doing nothing wrong but it was an evil vs evil scenario. If you find Illya redeemable the scene is going to make you feel angry, if you can't get enough of Gil's ego and find Illya to be inexcusable you will enjoy every version of her death. - People who don't want to read the novel, or tried but didn't finish it, should just say "I don't like how the VN genre plays" which is perfectly fine. I can understand people abandoning the original work, it can be very tiring and not as fun as other type of videogames, but if you want to talk about Saber and Shirou, you kinda have to do at least some research that goes beyond the UBW anime

[@nevagongoflawless6340]

Shirou is a good master. Let's just say it. He is a awful master. Any other take is wrong. 😭

[@yaboigamerdouji7573]

Good morals, needs training

[@nevagongoflawless6340]

​@@yaboigamerdouji7573 Good mindset. Terrible execution.

[@nevagongoflawless6340]

@@wrought-ironheroEMIYA It's because of the UBW incident #58 of Gilgamesh official accidents of TiFu.

[@yaboigamerdouji7573]

@@wrought-ironheroEMIYA He has 0 experience. Thanks Kiritsugu

[@lordblackstar3272]

He was literally the definition of a noob man had no clue what he was doing the entire time and caught a win by getting carried by his op partner.

[@Erohimu]

I don't know who the best girl is, but i know that the most girl that needs Shirou is Sakura and you can't change my mind

[@inuasha1991]

So Heaven's Feel was my favorite Route, I also read it in the Visual Novel. The choice of not killing Sakura is a lot more nuanced and ties in heavily into Shirou's own belief. In every other Route Shirou embraces the Kiritsugu ideology, which makes him become EMIYA, sacrificing one or as little as possible for the vast majority. Shirou believing in the good of people (Even people like Shinji, never giving up that optimism) is why he believes you should save as many people as possible. Sakura and this route was a direct contradiction to everything Shirou believed up until this point; by saving Sakura he had to give up on his very ideals, effectively betraying them, and it's one of the few times in the VN or the source material you see Shirou be selfish. For the first time he put what HE wanted before the needs of others (Not just being stubborn, you can make arguments he does whatever like throwing himself into battle, but usually he comes around to his fundamental core principles). That scene in the rain of Heaven's feel (The movies didn't do it justice imo) was the turning point of our protagonist. He made a VOW, a promise, to Sakura and Shirou is nothing if not keeping to his word. His belief in his ideals are strong, but if you notice in the VN if he says he'll go do this or fix that he ALWAYS does it even if it inconvenienced himself. Rin touches up on Shirou's ideology in UBW as well; EMIYA as well as Shirou, always put the needs of other's before himself. It's why he got himself in so much trouble, and quite possibly led to his "downfall" or why it was he became a heroic spirit. It's why he was willing to sacrifice his life after death in protecting the very world, becoming a counter guardian, because he put the needs of the world and other's before his own. It's that very thing that made EMIYA resentful to his past self. It's why in Heaven's Feel, Archer is willing to give up his own arm to this variant of Shirou; this is the same person, but uniquely different. It's a version of Emiya that's willing to fight to hell itself and back just for a single person, the one he loves. The saddest thing about HF to me is that the "True ending" is just your typical everything works out. Where the good or normal ending, is much more poetic and beautiful despite being a tragedy. In fact, in the Normal ending Shirou dying and not coming back; where Sakura is allowed to continue to exist and find joy in this life, is the cost for the evil things she had done. It's a form of atonement for her character, that she exists and her lover does not solely because she continues to live. More so, as the years go by she watches the changing of the seasons without Shirou because it was a promise they made together; he isn't there to do it with her, but she's keeping that promise despite the fact he isn't around. Imo this ending gives more weight and understanding to Shirou's choice, because one can make an argument...does she deserve to keep living? And what we find is someone seeking atonement and trying to make the best out of her current situation. Sakura's fate is also compared to fate of Angria Maiyu, and the philosophy expressed between Kieri and Shirou. Just because someone WILL do bad things or fated to do it, does that inherently make them a terrible person? The beauty in Sakura's fate in the normal ending is that it's more akin to what Kotomine was preaching then Shirou; If shirou really believed the things he was saying against Kotomine, absolutely, he would have taken out Sakura as well. But he didn't, and in the discussion/fight between our crazy priest and Shirou there are instances where it seems Shirou double guesses his own resolve. Him defeating Kotomine isn't necessarily because he thinks Kieri is wrong, but it's essential in keeping Sakura (Who he made a promise to) alive and well. His own selfishness, his desire to keep her safe, once again conflicts with his own ideology. It's mental gymnastics to justify why he's doing the stuff he's doing. And for once, he's doing it for his own wants and desires and not just to make other's happy. That's my personal belief on why Shirou doesn't kill Sakura, and it has several layers of depth because it's not just a black and white issue. It's a very psychological issue on morality, ideology, and even arguably Shirou's own trauma that makes him think the way he does. This is one of the main reasons why I enjoyed HF over the other routes, because perhaps my interpretation of it, and where I absolutely believe all of the routes have strengths and weaknesses this is the one that speaks out to me the most. Sakura obviously being my favorite girl of the initial three; because you have this broken girl who is wearing a fake smile, pretending everything is fine, despite the trauma she's endured. It's a good reflection that the things we've endured, experienced, can skew what we do and make villains out of the once purest of people. Heaven's Feel is a route of Redemption and atonement, if you the reader believe it's possible for the most vile of acts can reach that threshold. And if people are born bad or do they become that way because of what's around them. The typical Sociology vs Psychology debate. And all of that can be summed up in the brawling match between Kieri and Shirou. Sorry for the long comment.

[@jaieregilmore971]

Sakura is so underrated she deserves more attention these days.

[@ShotterGames]

Maybe a hot take but while I think the Normal Ending is the more realistic and appropriate ending for HF at the same type is one I prefer as a alternative rather than being a true route, it just would leave a bad taste in my mouth if the last thing of the game was that ending, honestly the route should just sticked with killing Rin to make the route more appropriate and Rider being eliminated, the true typical everything works out is Fate/Hollow Ataraxia and UBW Good ending.

[@blue_n_black]

Well said my man, well said. I salute you

[@blue_n_black]

@@wrought-ironheroEMIYA that's what people like to believe, the only difference between pre UBW Shirou and Shirou after UBW is that he won't have any regrets about his way of life. remember that he's going to exactly go through what archer went through and we even see glimpses of that, sure maybe he won't end up being a servant but that won't change the fact that in the end he won't regain his humanity and is still a sword. In fact he embraces this more than any other route. People say that he won't be an irrational suicidal kid anymore but we don't see that. All we see is that he won't give up on his idealistic ways. He's essentially still a sword. It is only in HF true that he can break out of this and form a persona and regain his humanity (ironic that he loses his human body). In the end this always leaves a bad taste in my mouth about shirou's resolution in UBW and why I find ot to be an extremely bad (well written tho) resolution to reach.

[@blue_n_black]

@@wrought-ironheroEMIYA that's what people like to believe, but as far as we know it's not what happened. Shirou is going to leave the clock tower and go to Asia, and belive me that Rin won't leave her dreams to be with Shirou. They're going to be separated soon enough. I'm not arguing about Rin having a good influence on Shirou tho, while I do agree with that, I still believe that he won't get his humanity back since the path of justice is something that a mere human can't walk. This is exactly what happened to kerry and Archer and Shirou admits that he may not be that different anyway (but he won't have regrets like kerry and Archer; which is supposed to be his character arc). It's just not realistic and goes against what has already been established and what comes after the UBW to think that shirou will find balance. In fact we don't get to see anything resembling that. Also Shirou didn't go to clock tower because he enjoyed it, remember that he doesn't like magecraft on it's own. He went there to get closer to his dream, and frankly when he found out that clock tower couldn't offer him a lot he left it anyway. So again I can't see where this balance thing comes from, maybe my problem is with the fact that no matter what I find the path of justice to be an extremely self destructive one ( and given all the examples that we have in nasuverse, it surly is). I'm not saying that shirou can't enjoy his life in UBW, but he won't live it for himself.

[@GallowayJesse]

As an anime-only who has a hard time caring about anything outside of Zero & Stay Night it's kind of tragic to me that so many people will watch Grand order, Apocrypha, etc but will never get to see the Heavens Feel movies. So I can only imagine how alot of OG fans of the original VN must feel. 💀💀

[@Fermin-hw5pd]

And I wonder why, Saber route, UBW and HF are usually the first things you watch when getting into the franchise

[@ashirothecamramen]

I'm here quick as faq, normally I be seeing these a week or two after the upload. sweet!

[@jacobjensen7704]

The banquet of kings and the rest of Fate Zero did such a good job at making Saber look like she was wrong that even Saber believed it. That’s why I love how UBW handled her resolution. Shirou resolves that even if his reasons are hypocritical, even if he suffers for it, he’s still gonna be a hero of justice. Why? *Because it’s the right thing to do.* I think that’s exactly what Saber needed to hear to resolve her conflict and be at ease with what happened and what she wanted.

[@Fermin-hw5pd]

She also learns that in her route right?

[@theguywhocomments5713]

@@Fermin-hw5pd yeah, and it's handled far better there as well

[@taiga738]

She WAS wrong though. Her good ending is letting go or her wish, accepting the outcome of her life and moving forward without continuing to try to change the past. Otherwise she'd just become like Archer.

[@jacobjensen7704]

@@taiga738 not exactly. Her wish in Zero was to save Britain. After her awful experience in Zero, her wish changed to not ever becoming King at all. The second wish is the one she let go of because Shirou convinced her that, because she was always trying to do the right thing, she should have no regrets.

[@taiga738]

@@jacobjensen7704 If there was a difference, it wasn't conveyed very well and it doesn't really change much. Even if she started out trying to stay king, she still made a deal with Alaya and would become a counter guardian by fulfilling it. The changes to history required to 'save Britain' would still be attempting to erase undesired events and the legends associated with them, as well as any future events affected by those changes. Her wish is still founded on sacrificing herself to erase a version of history she doesn't want because she can't accept that it happened that way. It's still based around the mindset that she has to do things on her own without relying on others, one of the big flaws she's being confronted about. To get her happy ending, Saber had to completely let go of the wish and her deal with Alaya. It may not be the outcome she wanted but it still matters and it's healthier to move forward than to ruin yourself trying to carefully curate the perfect timeline.

[@TheLunarMythos]

While I did enjoy Zero for the dark themes it presented, and as it was my first introduction to the series, one thing I really detest is their handling of Saber's characterization, or Zaber (Zero Saber) in this case, which causes fans to go as far as saying she's an entirely different character from the Saber in stay night. Two scenes I will always make reference to are the Banquet of Kings in episode 11 and Kiritsugu's speech to Saber about the mechanics of war in episode 16. Though the scene of Iskandar, Gilgamesh and Zaber talking about their experiences as kings back in their life was an interesting plot point by Urobuchi, it takes away that feel of Saber's (F/sn) stoic personality when it came to wanting to achieve her goal of obtaining the Holy Grail; redoing the selection of the King, so she would never become King Artoria, instead opting for her to be some knight in shining armor bound by chivalrous nature. This downplays the theme of the king being an emotionless figure as stated multiple times in the Fate route from both Merlin and Shirou. In Kiritsugu's speech to Saber, it's kinda stupid when you realize that Saber, who was literally King Arthur in life, one of the most ruthless warriors in history is being lectured by an edgelord about how war works?? I didn't realize it later on until reading the VN after watching Zero but that conversation was completely stupid and only buttresses the point that Urobuchi did a mundane job at portraying Saber. That's why I support the notion that since this is Uro's concept of the 4th Holy Grail War, and not Nasu's, hence why Zaber and Saber have such contrasting characterizations. Not only Saber, even as far as Kiritsugu as well. In Fsn we know him to be this ruthless mage who did anything to win the Holy Grail, but seeing it play out in Zero, while not bad (although I'm not all that fond of his character anyways) took away that mysterious aspect of him in Fsn, and that's just because he's the mc of Zero, so I shouldn't really complain or nitpick about it that much. More proof is that in Fsn it was stated that Kiritsugu killed all the Masters in the 4thHGW, at least in Nasu's 4th GW, so that's why Waver isn't or shouldn't be alive in the Fsn (at least the VN's timeline and not UFO's saga) continuity.

[@Jbig1430]

Saber is different in Fate route after Zero is because she is not a regular spirit she actually gets to keep all of her memories from the previous war. So all the growth and challenges of her ideas still weight on her and helps her view things differently.

[@TheLunarMythos]

Makes no sense for same reason why Kiritsugu is so different in F/sn from what Nasu originally made us view him as is the same case for Saber. Urobuchi gave his own take on Saber, Nasu had his. If you wat to argue which take on her character is the "better", that's fine. But cooking up a headcannon like this is fruitless.

[@5L1G_Zeref]

This man has single handedly caused a world war with his waifu takes

[@falcaozulu4538]

Yo, i wish you'd make a dont sleep on ishtar video bro. Keep up the good work 💪🏼

[@Artoria_77]

Why did Tokiomi have to decide between giving both his daughters to the mages association or giving one way to the Matou’s? Why didn’t he just decide to keep both Rin and Sakura?

[@D_C_H_A]

There would be friction between which of the two daughters would inherit the magic crest of the Tohsaka family. That's why most magus don't have more than one child, to avoid internal family conflict, and ultimately why Tokiomi sold his daughter to Zouken.

[@ssjokg4952]

@@D_C_H_A Kinda pointless when he is delighted with them fighting each other over the grail. Like, why not train both and then have them compete over the crest? Also you know what family would be the best for her affinity and magecraft? Edelfelts. Yes somehow Tokiomi thought the rotting bug man whose age is a mystery is the best choice.

[@D_C_H_A]

The Tohsaka and Edelfelt families are rivals, so that might've been preventing him. Tokiomi is just a weak man tbh.

[@PhantomNull13]

The mage's association would also be looking to acquire the unique gifts of both girls, and while he could protect the heir to his crest, he wouldn't be able to protect the other. Honestly, setting aside Zouken being a literal maggot, that wouldn't even have been all that bad a choice. At least his daughters would still be able to see each other, talk to each other, and have each other in the lives. In an ideal world where Sakura was actually raised as the heir instead of just a womb to raise someone to win the grail, there would come a time where they both are family heads, at which point there's no reason they couldn't rekindle that sisterly bond. It turned out pretty poorly, but as far as options go, sending her to a local family, an ally, and someone with whom you have a decent relationship seems like great alternative to sending her away forever.

[@KeeKage37]

@@ssjokg4952 Oh hell yes! I’d gladly take Sakura and Luvia being the women’s tag champions of the world over giving her to a walking corpse, who’s own kids hate him.

[@hxntaiguy3318]

I can only say one thing about the controversial topics in the whole series of fate, the series did its job, got people talking about the light novels, games, movies, anime, and visual novel, which in turn made the series famous and eternal, plus the series is literally about real and fictional people fighting for the holy grail, but also about how no one is perfectly good or bad, but flawed people just like humans, who think what they do or did was the right choice like saber or shiro and many more example we can see in the series.

[@fkez0510]

i just hate all the gatekeeping around it, let people enjoy what series they wanna enjoy

[@furiousdestroyah9999]

4:54 Weird way to say Kirei but ok

[@phonegamer1587]

requesting for a don't sleep on ozymandias day 26

[@phonegamer1587]

requesting for a don't sleep on ozymandias day 27

[@phonegamer1587]

requesting for a don't sleep on ozymandias day 28

[@johnmorrison519]

19:51 reminds me of how obito turned out after kakashi killed rin by accident. 19:51 bazdilot cordelion 🔫🔫🔫

[@maysen51]

4:47 i like saber more cause it’s more inclined that emiya has strong feelings for her if we’re going off his counter guardian version, plus her route is literally the only route where he mostly battles without complete assists, in ubw he gets rin’s crest to use unlimited blade works however the ending seems to be more inclined with emiya going down archer’s path, with heaven’s feel we could say its the best ending as emiya dispute being in a doll is completely free of his path to becoming a counter guardian, personally i prefer saber’s route as its unknown weather shirou becomes a counter guardian or not.

[@sleepylmguy9968]

Same here. I always liked that about the Fate route. Especially the part where he mostly battles without the assists. As someone that watch Deen Stay/Night. My favorite part about it was how he discovers his powers and skills. It felt much more natural in progression than when the other routes did it.

[@maysen51]

@@wrought-ironheroEMIYA we don’t know that for sure throughout his battle with archer he clearly makes it obvious that archer’s path wasn’t a mistake even if misinterpreted we can clearly say its the same path but not in the same way as archer’s completely. So far we know emiya still wants to be a hero however we don’t know weather or not if he’ll make a contact becoming a counter guardian

[@maysen51]

@@wrought-ironheroEMIYA we should also note archer himself tries to avoid contact with emiya as that leaves to emiya advancing more then expect as we see him able to slightly take over archer’s reality marble tho i wonder if they’ll ever make conditions of summoning a stronger archer emiya

[@maysen51]

@@wrought-ironheroEMIYA i thought what drove him was being a counter guardian, he made the contact to be able to perform miracles and thus became a hero afterwards when he died and became a counter guardian he became mad over the fact for eternity he would have to do his tasks and end up killing ppl he didn’t want to kill. Emiya himself wouldn’t want to kill someone just cause they can potentially be a threat to everyone. He’s the type to try and reason with em or find another way if possible however being a counter guardian makes this concept completely void. Counter guardians cannot reason with u if ur a potential threat that requires a counter guardian to be summoned they’re going to kill u 10/10 it doesn’t matter if the guardian in question wants to reason with u or not u have to carry out ur orders. The only exception to this is emiya being summoned in fate stay. He wasn’t summoned cause of duty but solely cause rin had the catalyst to his summon. Personally i’m sure archer is aware no matter what he does he can’t change his fate even if he kills emiya i’m pretty sure he solely fights emiya and wants to eliminate him to make a point which gets counteracted by his past self in the end.

[@Fermin-hw5pd]

​@@wrought-ironheroEMIYAMaybe he won't end up like Archer because Archer himself told Rin to stay by Shirou to make sure he doesn't make the wrong choices

[@zabuza3663]

Great video

[@kaiserberserk3622]

Rin? Saber? Sakura? Nah, I choose Rider (specifically her in HF route)

[@ethanc857]

If you like rider you should read hollow ataraxia she got great scenes😳

[@eW91dHViZSBpcyBjZW5zb3JzaGlw]

based taste. her 3some sense with "shirou" in hollow ataraxia gave me rigor mortis at lightspeed!

[@Lazy-May]

@@eW91dHViZSBpcyBjZW5zb3JzaGlw Chill brooo🤣🤣

[@SilverAce3]

I started with Zero. It made this my favorite anime. I love FGO just wish the story details were more available and easier to follow. Love all the spins off and animes just some are more polished than others. Zero, UBW and heavens feel are just so well done.

[@darius5066]

Fate/Zero is my favorite of all of the adaptions. I watched the Studio Deen version of Fate Stay Night first, then the UBW movie, then the Ufotable UBW adaptation, then Fate/Zero. I've seen all of the other series (Apocrypha, Last Encore, Prisma Illya, Grand Order) as well as the movies too. I think they are all good in their own ways, but Fate/Zero definitely had the biggest impact on me of all of the series and movies.

[@ZAIDII0]

Gil vs shirou in the movie had great animation and also the fight with archer was great

[@vitzrsx]

The most memorable one is "people die when they are killed" meme tbh :]

[@carlossique9604]

If Shirou did kill Sakura that would go against his moral, to save people. It’s like with Spider-Man, he tries to do impossible and save everyone because that’s what a hero should do save the lives of others.

[@Fermin-hw5pd]

More or less, a realistic hero would sacrifice 1 person for 1000 if needed, but Shirou is Shirou, and Sakura is important to him so for that fact alone he wouldn't do it

[@Bathtub_Toaster]

On the question of best girl. If we're talking just about Stay/ Night Rin is the best. However, when it comes to the faces its Sakura faces > Saber faces > Rin faces.

[@arrexu01]

Where are all the people that simply want more fate content? Personally I loved all of them. Hollow Ataraxia when!

[@sillysalad0]

Never sadly. there have never been any plans to adapt it

[@paulodelima5705]

@@sillysalad0 Unfotable said it could happen if the movies makes money.

[@sillysalad0]

@@paulodelima5705 source

[@zacjones9414]

I understand the Fgo part I speed run through the main story and events so I can go back and read it when I'm done

[@tankster99]

I feel that tokiyomi made the right big decision but the wrong small one with Ren. He should have known something was fishy with zoken the dude is like old enough to be his many times over great grandfather and one mage stays alive that long without some seriously forbidden shit.

[@darknessknows1235]

Nobody knows how old Zouken is. He specifically hides his identity so the church/clocktower don't go after him. Only the matou's have an idea that he's really old and even then it's only a few of them who realize it, while still not knowing who he truly is.

[@greyworld6242]

It’s all always going to be a coming down to a matter of perspective by the end of the day.

[@D_C_H_A]

If I had a kid, I'd give him the middle name Tsiah because of you tbh.

[@carlosgarza400]

Saber is the ideal Rin is the more realistic Sakura is a dream All are valid options and all have their baggage

[@KidoXth]

Me who become a fan because of the doujin/henti instead the og/secondary/etc xD

[@Fermin-hw5pd]

Me who became a fan because Google recommended an article about Fate and I decided to get into it

[@maxiargos1971]

Funny enough when I was getting into fate by my friends they told me to 'Watch Fate/zero and ignore the Deen fate anime' I asked why and they just say it was bad. Ignored them and watched the fate deen's work. Even if it's not for everyone. I do feel it helped with me enjoying Zero and other works a lot more, but I think Cooking with Emiya is the best for me. I like cooking anime. I'm a basic bitch at the end of the day and Cooking with Emiya gave me what I wanted with the interactions I wanted to see more of.

[@SpiritsRiseR2]

Oh brother you have no idea with the Grail Dialogue It gets crazy

[@Luca-yb4sh]

Oh my god, yes, the point about gassing a franchise is so true... It completely ruined my experience with Tsukihime, cause I went in expecting god knows what, as people hyped the story and the characters (mainly Arc) so much, to then find out it was the weakest work of the main four (for me). People gotta stop throwing words like "masterpiece" or "peak fiction" around so lightly. And I say this as a fan (I even bought the ultralimited edition of Tsukihime, despite already knowing what I was about to read and how much I would probably like it). It's Saber btw.

[@Fermin-hw5pd]

Peak fiction sounds so Discord

[@succcsroya1776]

You should do a video where you talk about which crypters could beat part 1 and 1.5 of fgo

[@Venom1846]

Shirou is the best person for Saber and Sakura. Rin is the best person for Shirou. Do with that what you will.

[@ren4383]

hot take, most sieg hater dont hate him cuz he is a bad main character they hate him cuz they feel cuck by him since jeanne is their waifu in fgo, and also why no one hate jeanne when is she is the one making moves on him and i dont think sieg love her more like he just want to repay her for helping him like how he help fulfill the promise between seigfried and karna.

[@Fermin-hw5pd]

Goofy asses, how do they feel cucked by a fictional character for _another_ fictional character if characters like each other just accept it and don't get mad because that's their "waifu"

[@Lazy-May]

That's got to be one of the dumbest reason to hate a character. But then again the SiegXJeane ship is kinda not "right" in some sense, it's kinda like "they are not meant for each other" or "they are better off with someone else"

[@Fermin-hw5pd]

@@Lazy-May And Sieg is like 2 weeks old, wtf Jeanne

[@lordtouchme5417]

The simple truth is Zero's adaptation is good while staynights isnt. Sudao and Miura understood their cast and Shirou about as well as zack snyder did superman. You will not have the same take away from Shirou,Saber,Kirei,and Illya if your anime only as you would if you read the VN. Fate route completely skips over the more interesting aspects of Shirou ignoring his trauma to keep him from thinking of any regret or longing for his mom and the deeper thoughts on how an omnipotent wish granter and changing the past would actually work. A core theme of the entire route Ubw is ok but it completely disregards how Shirou tries to justify his ideal in spite of its very clear flaws and how much Rin actually changes his character. As well as how they Mirrior Shirou and saber's relationship. Hf is a disaster. Kirei and Illya are vital what changes his mindset and the choices he makes in that route yet in the movies they have 15 minutes of screen time with half of it being exposition. Without all the heavy interactions with them Shirou's decesion making is rather poor. Not to mention the 2 best fight in the VN are adapted like shit Nine lives blade works and Shirou vs Kirei are forgetable and boring in the anime

[@redhorseman7599]

I started with Deen's Fate/stay Night... Yes, most of those coming later are better, but I still love it, and the music... Kenji Kawaii made a good job: I liked his version of EMIYA and the song of the final moments of Saber, La Sola... so beautiful and sad💔

[@epsyblue7714]

4:54 LOL had to sneak that in there real quick huh?

[@LoliLover36669]

4:54 Zoulken best girl. I'll fight anyone for me to get that Zoulken route!!!!

[@RazorToaster]

I partake in FGO and Carnival, but I'm a lot more invested in Stay Night and Zero. I'm just more invested in Emiya and Kirei.

[@JB-ol3xo]

Saber's story was always going to be a tragedy within the context of the verse. Gil and Iskander can be as charismatic as they like with their points of view but they both lack the context to really speak on her choices. The fact that they made large parts if the audience agree with them speaks to how well that CHA skill skill is working, but if you look at what they're saying the opinions they have really have no bearing on what Saber experienced. If she was more assertive or acted as a tyrant would have mattered for nothing, that story was always going to be a tragedy, in universe it needs to be. So yes, Iskander has some great lines, but had she lived exactly that she would have ended up in the exact same place because greater forces needed it to be so...

[@patricklacey4946]

She admitted they were right when she fought Lancelot

[@thesun5275]

It wasn't about being a tyrant. It was about being a human. Something which she surrendered when she drew the sword and that Merlin even warned her about.

[@murilopenagoncalves3831]

@@thesun5275 She did surrender her humanity, but out of necessity. Her country was being invaded and people were suffering, a strong and efficient king was needed. Besides, no one complained about her lack of humanity during her first battles, but when peace settled they used as an excuse to get rid of her. The king protected his people, but the people didn't protect their king.

[@thesun5275]

@@murilopenagoncalves3831 But it wasn't just her. That was Iskandar's entire point. She tried to walk the path alone disregarding many of her comrades. The people who fought with her and were loyal to her. People who looked up to her that she didn't do the same to. She even realized that when she came face to face with Lancelot in the end of Zero. Iskandar's empire crumbled, but he didn't walk his path alone, he didn't disregard those who stayed by his side up until the end. Why do you think he ended the banquet with that question? She became a martyr that no one could follow because she put herself on a pedestal that no one could reach. And those that could have had the potential to she simply moved past. I mean biggest examples are with what happened with Lancelot and Mordred, but especially Mordred. It was Artoria's own inaction that lead to the buildup of rage and resentment in Mordred.

[@murilopenagoncalves3831]

@@thesun5275 The thing regarding Mordred was way more complicated. Yes, Arturia was unfair with her, but she was put there to literally sabotage the king. That and she was born of rape, literally. It's a tough pill to swallow. And let's be real, Mordred was not king material, even she admited once. Lancelot's rage was completly uncalled for. He CHOOSE to have an affair knowing about the consequences. And insted of facing it, he kills his fellow knights, one of them who idolized him, Gareth, to free the queen. And a big difference between Arturia and Iskander's time as rulers. She spent more time defending and securing her lands. He expanded beyond it's borders. Both had ups and downs, but Iskander was a greedy as hell and pushed his army for a 'dream'. And I say again, she didn't betray her people, they betrayed her.

[@calvinvang3467]

i started fate with studio deen back in like 2008, i appreciate the adaptation for what it was and it really was just a product of its time.

[@Lillymu961]

To weigh in on the Fate/Zero being the best topic, while Fate/Zero was my introduction to Fate and is amazing, I can't say it's my personal favorite or that it's the best Fate has to offer as a franchise. Fate/Stay Night is such an interesting and layered story. Even though I haven't read the original VN or seen the original Fate/Stay Night anime, the convepts and characters of that story are generally more enjoyable and hopeful. Fate/Zero is a classic Greek style tragedy done to perfection and is a great opener for Stay/Night...but UBW and Heaven's Feel just hit different. Plus, I just happen to really like Shirou on a whole. I haven't even seen much of Prisma Illya, but I have watched Oath Under Snow three different times just because that iteration of Shirou is my favorite. Fate/Apocrypha is also really fun. If people love how Fate is presented in Zero so much, I don't see why people wouldn't seek out more after that. As for the best girl argument...in terms of who I think is best suited to Shirou...I'd say Rin. The two of them have a really strong friendship dynamic that remains in every route. They feel closer to being equals. Plus, Archer is basically Shirou from an alternate future and Rin has an extremely strong connection and attachment to him. I like Saber and Sakura a lot too, but...Rin and Shirou together just feels the most right to me. As a lady, I feel Shinji should always get murdered. I hate him. Rin is a better person than me. I cheered and clapped when Sakura killed him. I haven't seen the Dean adaptations yet, but I do feel like they've gotten beat up more than they should. I recently watched the Tsukihime anime everyone says doesn't exist. It wasn't that bad, so the Dean version of Stay Night is probably fine. I love Ufotable's approach to Fate but there's nothing wrong with the older style. It's just...not as pretty. I would argue that the original Stay Night anime has better music overall though. There are several pieces from the original that I listen to a lot. Those are my thoughts on some of the controversies. Fate is a great franchise. There's still so much more I need to see. :)

[@chill7056]

Okay since we're all being honest together Why is type moon making it hard for Mordred and Artoria to get along hell even the fandom did a better job making them get along better than they did just it would be cool if they made a knight's of the roundtable route doing whatever the hell they want to do(maybe fighting vortigen or panhuman morgan maybe concluding all the knights story maybe and adding all of the knights together)and hopefully adding more voicelines for artoria(which is not gonna happen since Nasu doesn't want to) So sorry for my rant hope you can give you're opinion on it (Also Gareth is my new waifu and I think she's hella underrated)

[@greenshinobi85]

no clue how you can farm for 10 hours and not even read the story the characters are in that's what gets me invested to farm for them!

[@mistreviews]

One of the most interesting conversations to me, in Fate, was the convo between the three kings in Fate/Zero. At first glance, it does appear the director/writer/whoever is just using it as a moment to dog Saber, but after you do some digging into Gilgamesh and Alexander the Great, you begin to think: Who are THEY to judge King Arthur, and that arrogance, as kings, was their flaw, which made the whole convo seem like a historical inside joke. With Gil, according to the legend, you had a man who unsuccessfully chased immortality and died with regret because he couldn't live forever (how selfish can you get), while with Alexander you had a man who led his kingdom to ruin because he was greedy and wouldn't stop conquering (seriously, you're drunk Iskander, just go home, bro). All three kings were great, but were all huge failures in their own respective right, but only one of them is brave enough to say: Maybe it could have been done better?

[@patricklacey4946]

Zero was my introduction, and I went back in watched almost everything, also a FGO junkie now 😂

[@sithmaster4305]

You know after reading the stuff you've posted about Illya I still love her as a character but i feel she's been flanderized pretty hard especially when its not magical girl illya.

[@espurrseyes42]

In all fairness, Prillya is a different universe where she got a different hand at life, and all other non-VN appearances of the OG are either not actually her (Sitonai), are inherently goofy/non-serious settings (CarniPhan, Cooking, etc.).

[@farahh2909]

I literally watched fate and then searched for every fate serie that has gilgamesh in it and fate apocrypha

[@Random-Fandom]

Personally, it is Saber because she’s the paragon hero of Fate. She’s the Optimus Prime, the Superman, the Captain America, the Goku, the Allmight. All of these heroes are the prime of heroes in their own universe, and all of ignorant people will say that they’re boring and that they’re flawless and blah blah blah and are all wrong because they don’t want to pay attention.

[@thedizsilent5188]

I love rin, I would try to pick her if I could but, Sakura is my hearts kryptonite if she goes all puppy eyes on me... knowing what she went through, not sure I'd last long, that feeling of being needed/wanted by someone like that, is addictive. Must protect Instinct.

[@philbuttler3427]

I mean reading FS/N I kinda think the story is constructed to make the reader like Rin the best. At least, she gets the most shine overall from the narrative across all three routes even if shes only romanced in one or one and a half. I personally like Sakura, but how much spotlight Rin gets was just kinda mind blowing on my last reread.

[@zwei999]

Agree about 1st FSN anime. Hated the blending of 3 routes, but at same time with thought that it could be the last adaptation kind of of gave it a pass at the time.

[@subcommanderxelios800]

The one thing I like about a blending of the 3 routes is that people can stop bitching about which Shirou is better. He can be treated as a singular anime character like every MC in anime. I realize there was no benefit to splitting fsn splitting into multiverses, it just degrades Shirou as a character and he already has enough shit for the last 20 years.

[@Flamelance_Accendo]

@18:05 I hate people like that. I've seen people act like that before but in another gacha I play, and its as you say, the story is right there. lol

[@Paurlt]

“It’s saber” My MAN😂

[@eduardopantoja9115]

Here's a hot take, Rin is the worst girl compared to Saber and Sakura. I also think that Shiro is at his best in Heaven's Field. This may be controversial but realistically speaking will you feel like crying a waterful if a school shooting happen or if your mom died. Me personally I'd feel bad about the shooting and then move on while a mothers death will traumatized me forever. So, in other words, I'd do the same thing that Shiro would have done in Heaven's Field.

[@ghitaianis9022]

everyone arguing about saber sakura or rin but no one is talking about the actual best one which is gil.

[@Based_Gigachad_001]

Nice 👍

[@hobbitrash7815]

"some people even throw Illya and *Kirei* in there" LOL

[@OGDoomGuy]

Let’s hope the devs fix this in the next rendition

[@iversondelossantos7827]

I know a lot of People are gonna agree with me when I say *ARCHER IS BEST-GIRL*

[@patrickmorris1255]

I watched og sn before any else but to be honest Zero is still my favourite but i still love the rest

[@ainzooalgown1426]

I have returned from my cruise to ask for TATARI

[@nobodyhimself1643]

4:44 best girl kirie confirmed

[@lordblackstar3272]

Why have Kirei when you can have Caren.

[@D_C_H_A]

🐐 take

[@ManaMercii]

i approve

[@devonyt_e5226]

🔥

[@rayquevedo2356]

Although Fate Zero is my favorite by far I love most other fate works and play fgo on my days off it's great for a gacha game in my opinion And I actually purposely rolled for rin and or Sakura based servants I people just like groups I guess

[@wor_llp8452]

I want to say this but .. Do you think that alot of the fate go stories cram alot of characters in the plot ,making it unfocused at times ,i'm a sane person who doesn't play fgo but from the looks of it i don't think i'll gatch up on it bc of so much content(it's old at this point ofc) Also one unpopular think to say :i'm actually intrested in fate/extra games and it's lore ,to bad There's not alot of content abt it that

[@yellowdeceiver4818]

yea I dont like when people say fate story is to complicated and dont want to listen to explaination saber the class and saber the person isnt that hard to distinguse. saber is from the saber class and is the only saber from the story shes in. yea there are other sabers but its in another series, its just like calling someone chef in a different kitchen, are they the same person? no they just have the same title

[@otakunemesis34]

Attempt 4 of asking you to do a video on world of darkness.

[@rilasrogue3981]

out of the Saber Rin and Sakura i will always pick saber not because she is my favorite but because i always loved the legend of King Arthur which is who she is Artoria Pendragon my favorite in stay night is Medusa just to be clear

[@philosopherkingzant2037]

I've only seen Fates Zero, Grand Order, and Kaleid. Kaleid is the best I've seen

[@emilianotype-g6877]

bro i sorry to say this but gil and iskandar where really lucky whit their life and arturia was really unlucky in her life also bro people really dont know about illya illya be like illya: YO MY BOY BERSERKER YOU CAN HAVE SOME RAPE TIME WHIT SABER JUST TAKE HER HEAD FIRST MY GUY i actually kinda like that about illya like she sadistec she crazy she could be a rally good antagonys

[@DiogenesTheCynic.]

Read the VN, and controversial takes disappear.

[@damonxd1815]

shiero said in the movie he’s gonna be sakura’s hero so he gave up on his dads dream and started living for himself in a way

[@Dont_care_4_U]

4:54 ״by the way it’s saber” Me: well now that I know that you have good taste I can take everything else you say at face value