13 Confusing Things In Elden Ring

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[@SlightlyThrowed420]

RR" I cant possibly finish elden ring, while working on a whole other project" Miyazaki "that's the neat thing, you dont"

[@faity5649]

But RR will keep working on Elden ring right? Right?

[@lucasduque8289]

Stephen King would mock him for not being able to write 3 books at the same time

[@Kaen0199]

Brandon Sanderson would like a word...

[@skrotosd]

@@lucasduque8289 that's quantity over quality

[@lucasduque8289]

@@skrotosd I can agree that some people are like that, but I don't think it applies to Stephen King. Even being as prolific as he is, his stories are always unique in some way. I would normally write more on this, this subject opens up a lot of interesting discussion, but I'm trying to keep myself from writing text wall in KZbin comments.

[@sylviancreedmarsh9171]

Copium lightning round- Loretta: She’s an honourable knight and didn’t want to fully abandon her post to pursue a more valiant cause. Mohg: A projection to guard against anyone who would attempt to reach the 3 fingers Golden Godfrey: Golden Shade from the Erdtree Everyone trying to kill us: guards doing their jobs, oppressed peoples defending themselves, madness, you have no drip and are maidenless

[@romerobritto9094]

Nobles running in desperation from your blade and kneeling as they beg for their lives as the Tarnished mercilessly slays them one by one. Tarnished After That: Why Does Everyone Hate Me?

[@mr.poobear99]

@@romerobritto9094 nahhhhh when I walk out the front gate to this new open world and this big golden knight decides my puny ass is worth a halberd up the ass. That’s why, that’s why us tarnished kill everyone

[@High0Alai]

Just stabbing in the dark, aren't these like their "Rememberances"?

[@karenamyx2205]

This explanation works for me!

[@mralabbad7]

Not true Those dancing ladies were quite lovely when i visited them. . .Most of the time

[@OtepRalloma]

I see Loretta's and Godfrey's shade as similar to player summons. You know how the Martyr's Effigy is used to summon? I theorize that when we leave our signs, lorewise we're leaving a shade of ourselves to help those who may find our signs in the future. In the same way, Loretta left a shade of herself to keep guarding Caria Manor while she herself decided to protect the Haligtree. And the reason she fights you is that you're literally an unwelcome trespasser. You know. If someone breaks into your house, you might wanna fight back?

[@adrielpadilla3959]

This ^^

[@sydposting]

Ranni conjured up a whole spectacle-illusion of Rennala to protect her, this absolutely tracks for me. 😊

[@punkboy448]

I Second this, also Ranni (who is a puppet) gives us the summon bell, Seluvis sells puppets (also probably is one since he's not a "sister") As for Godfrey, Golden Pissboy. I theorize that its his Guiding Grace manifestation somehow reactivating. Because of all the shit we stirred after that is a way than enough good reason to have guidance to come back home for Godfrey I think

[@Flymerick]

They could talk with us if they want, but yeah, I know that accounting for all the possible outcomes isn't very realistic from the development side of things.

[@thomasdevlin5825]

You know it's really funny about the Godfrey shade? I always imagined that that was just Godfrey invading us the same way the recusants or the bloody fingers do to kill us and prove he's stronger, so I never even questioned it. But a detail I would never have even noticed if a video I watched just today hadn't pointed it out, Godfrey's axe as it is in game isn't the axe Godfrey is holding in his statues, one of the heads broke off, however his shade is still using that old double edged axe, meaning we are actually fighting a younger version of Godfrey, so your theory holds allot of weight

[@brad5204]

14:00 yeah from what I know Miquella was trying to rebirth himself to escape his curse of eternal childhood. I think he was a cocoon and the Haligtree figure was growing him inside it’s “womb” until Mohg snatched him mid-rebirth

[@phillipmitchell2254]

There's also a relationship there, Miquella was feeding the Haligtree with his blood, which is exactly the form Mohg took to infiltrate him and try to mutate him into a vessel for the Formless Mother

[@khandimahn9687]

Exactly. That much is pretty certain. The question is what happened after Mohg took the cocoon. I believe, at the least, it interrupted the process Miquella had begun. More likely, certain lines lead me to believe that Mohg and/or his nameless goddess were doing something to make Miquella a better consort, but doing so corrupted the process. Either way, we get what looks like an unfinished, sickly, bleeding arm sticking out of the cocoon.

[@Terminalsanity]

@@khandimahn9687 Actually it appears Miquella continued to develop in the cocoon after Mogh removed him from the Haligtree if you look at the opening stills you can see that Miquella was still child sized when Mogh took him. Honestly that Mogh was able to find Miquella and remove without an apparent fight or chase makes me wonder if Miquella reached out to Mogh because his initial plan with the Haligtree stopped working.

[@luchesisuzana7643]

@@khandimahn9687 there are some videos showing what's inside the cocoon and it's something like an adult-sized body, but withered like the arm.

[@morthemex]

I wonder if during the age since Miquellas kidnapping, he continued to age in his cocoon, and that caused him to age too far and now he's withered and old, potentially dead of old age.

[@kaldrax1]

I recall hearing Miyazaki said in an interview that there is a complete story in his head, but the presentation is left intentionally with holes. He wanted to capture the feeling he got from trying to read books written in English while barely being able to speak the language.

[@JAMJR84]

To add to this, I believe he also mentioned not wanting to force the player to experience the stories in one specific way and that he had no plans of ever revealing the info in his head. I believe he said that way before Elden Ring was out, or possibly even a thing, but Elden Ring really feels like the culmination of this design philosophy with how optional most of the game is. Like you mentioned, it kind of points back to his experience with books written in English and how he had to fill in the blanks himself. He wants his players to fill in the blanks themselves since doing that inspired his interest in story telling. I think he wants his games to serve as a gateway for future writers. On one hand, I respect the hell out of it and I get it, but it is somewhat frustrating as someone who enjoys thoughtful storytelling and world building to know that I will never likely get closure on certain parts of the story. Additionally, It also frames the hiring of George RR Martin in a different light. He gets one of the most famous living fantasy writers to do the foundational world building for the story. Then he picks it up and fills in the blanks. It is like what he did when he was younger, but this time he actually got a famous writer to make something for him to build off of instead of struggling through a book and making stuff up for fun. There is something kind of touching and sweet about the whole thing. Like he came full circle, but is also dedicated to giving future generations the same kind of experience.

[@lexiferenczy9695]

@@JAMJR84 While I also appreciate Miyazakis obtuse storytelling and him intentionally leaving holes in the story, he sometimes takes it too far imo. For example when you look back at Dark Souls 3 with the tons of lore videos and speculations about it, all things considered there is so little that has actually been found out, which gives the impression that there maybe isn't that much to the lore as people like to believe. And even when there is some hidden lore implication discovered, it usually is extremely vague and doesn't answer much. Having this very obtuse stuff is fine, but it maybe should've been counterbalanced with other mysteries, which are also obtuse but a bit easier to find out and have more concrete details to them.

[@eetfuk3571]

@@lexiferenczy9695 I actually believe Miyazaki doesn't really think about on what we think about the game. Just my armchair speculation and thought though that Miyazaki was just in a state of random bullshits and add it to the game and somehow it works perfectly.

[@lexiferenczy9695]

@@eetfuk3571 Deep in my heart I also fear this :D but since he has Martin on board in Elden Ring, maybe there is a bit more to the lore behind the curtains

[@luchesisuzana7643]

Yeah but being someone who did that I can say that if you read the book again and again you can end up understanding everything. As with ER, maybe in a future DLC, lol

[@fortheloveofexy]

In terms of radagon/Marika being the same person, I think we need to remember that they're not human - they're gods. If we look at real world mythologies and pantheons, it's very common for gods to reproduce new offspring in strange and impossible ways, or have different aspects of their godhood that can at times present as a separate identities. Even within Christianity, there are things like The Holy Trinity - God The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. In most denominations, The Holy Trinity is all one God, but within the Trinity are different "aspects" to who God is, and they can appear throughout religious texts as individual characters, separate from one another. If we think of Marika and Radagon in this context - individual parts of the same whole, two sides of the same coin - then I think it makes it a lot less confusing.

[@JAMJR84]

It also helps to assume that Radagon seems to have been physically split from Marika for at least a while? He was off doing things while Marika was doing apparently doing other stuff, from what I can tell. So even though they are the same person, it seems more like she split herself and then rejoined herself. And considering that we see people leaving copies of themselves frequently, I imagine that someone as powerful as Marika was able to make a copy of herself that was a fully realized person. Morgott and Mohg both have copies that are basically indistinguishable from themselves, while other spirit copies look more like regular summons. Marika, being their mother and a full blown god, could probably take it a step further than making a perfect copy. My guess is her reuniting with herself was kind of a "fine, I'll do it myself" thing, and Melania and Miquella being cursed was a result of the Greater Will not appreciating her attempt at a power grab. I wonder if her Omen twins were also cursed (or blessed) because of something she was already thinking of doing. If she was already considering usurping the power the of the Greater Will, perhaps that would explain why she would birth Omen Twins? Since they are representative of the time before the Golden Order and their Erdtree.

[@dtk1981]

I saw a theory saying that marika used the rune of rebirth to create radagon. We know that Rennala is incapable of truly wielding the rune so she could only produce half-baked ranni clones. Marika is not only a God but the physical embodiment of the elden ring itself (or at least the vessel) . It wouldn't be a stretch to say she made a copy of herself altering it in a way to provide herself a "proper" elden lord. And who could fulfill her needs other than herself? Radagon being a perfect rebirth came with the extra side effect of growing his own individuality, probably from being a perfect rebirth. As for the whole body switch thing it wouldn't be far fetched to believe that at some point before the shattering she and radagon rejoined at some point. That or marika never separated from radagon. Marika herself may have simply used the rune of rebirth to alter her form and instead of creating a perfect lord for herself, she personally BECAME that lord. She could have used the rune to transform into Radagon similarly to the boss fight and in the process lived as him eventually and incidentally forming a split personality, again as a side effect of the rune of rebirth. Living her life as radagon she formed a new life with Rennala before her sudden return to the capital. Probably due to her losing sight of her purpose within the golden order or by the force of the greater will. With this new found perspective, she lived her life following her original plan while also crafting the events leading to the shattering.

[@quippy958]

@@JAMJR84 I read somewhere they were forced to share a body after the Elden Ring was shattered

[@spyox04]

I think of them as simply being twin brothers, being born of the same being or entity, which is why their their offspring are cursed. An incest of the gods.

[@quippy958]

@@spyox04 it literally says radagon is marika in the game, they are the same being, not siblings

[@verticaltoast2488]

I'm pretty sure you fight the godskins so much because the godskins are hunting you down in an attempt to find Maliketh, and the snail might've been using the ashes of some dead fodskins

[@neafromdbd3869]

Fodskins lol?

[@DarkRei7]

"Why does Loretta attack me in the Haligtree?" Your mission is literally to kill every demigod, without exception, for their great runes as stated by the fingers and Eniya "Have their heads". She left a spirit summon of herself to uphold her duty as a Carian Knight, as evidenced by the manor's still standing defenses when we enter it (the hands, the magical illusion soldiers, the sorcerers, the wolves, and the Carian troll knight). We see characters Mohg's illusion is there for one of two possible reasons having multiple duties to different factions across the game like Melina who wants to serve the golden order and fulfill her purpose but wants to bring death indiscriminately, and all the other chosen tarnished who want to see a new Elden lord ascend albeit with their own beliefs weaved into the order. The clearest example of people serving two orders is Lansseax who is both part of the dragon cult and assists Morgott in LLeyndel's defense. 1) Morgott manifested that illusion to ward off anyone who approaches the three fingers' location, links to Morgott appear in the seal that is there before you kill Morgott and in the Mohg's dissipation effect looking like Margit's (both are projections and one of them is confirmed to be created by Morgott) 2) Mohg's age of blood wouldn't happen if the three fingers realize their plans, so he has a valid reason to protect the entrance to the frenzied flame Godskins being scattered across the lands between is obvious, the one in Dominula is basically a cult leader since the spirit speaks of the women flaying him, and the noble in the Volcano Manor is there because the godskins and the lord of blasphemy seem to have some sort of alliance, as evidenced by the Albinauric Mask who is a result of the Godskin's perverse torture, the Noble in Liurnia's tower is there because Ranni's corpse is there and she's the first demigod to die in Body, the apostle in Caelid's tower is guarding the gloam eyed queen's sword and the duo is clearly after Malekith's rune of death. As for the spirit calling snail in the mountaintops, it's possible that Okina's disciple killed them there (maybe chased them there and killed them) and perished in the process, the same way the Misbegotten crusader took refuge in a cave in the consecrated snowfield, and another malformed star like astel is hidden in a tunnel near the Anix Yelough ruins where everyone is afflicted with frenzy. With the frenzy taking hold of the town/village's inhabitants as a result of the calamity that is this second Astel

[@tinminator8905]

Ok I have seen so many people thinking that Loretta left a summon many times and don't understand why. There is a much simpler explanation without needing lorettas consent or even needing to give her the ability to create summons out of nowhere. We know for a fact that Ranni can summon oathsworn beings, as she is the one who creates the second phase of the Renala fight. Loretta is simply one of those oathsworn beings that Ranni uses to protect the manor and is in full control of.

[@DarkRei7]

@@tinminator8905 that's a possibility too, some details are just meant to be vague

[@redhare8572]

@@tinminator8905 Ranni literally can make Rennala projection and summon a dragon. Loretta summon is just EZ for Ranni

[@tinminator8905]

@@redhare8572 That is exactly what I said

[@redhare8572]

@@tinminator8905 just adding more, sorry

[@PrinzMegahertz]

Actually, with regards to giving birth: I wondered whether the mother's survive the births of omen babies and whether this is why people detest the horns and cut them off.

[@bunniewood]

Marika survived

[@TempestRequiem0]

Maybe. But more likely its because it was a sign of power before the Greater Will meaning it might have connections to another outer god that the Greater Will doesn't want to contest with. So it's kind of a turf war deal. You show up wearing the wrong colors (horns in this case) in the wrong neighborhood (planet) and you get clapped.

[@PrinzMegahertz]

@@bunniewood Well, she hardly is an average woman.

[@moneybagswiggins7432]

@@TempestRequiem0 This is pretty much accurate, since margits tail and mohgs wings are aspects of the crucible, which was pretty much the original erdtree. All their gear and incantations consist of things like horns

[@bruhmoment-mg6pb]

i highly doubt it would be a comfortable experience, but it’s probably not universally deadly

[@declicitous1763]

I bet since Loretta seems to have had nothing against the Carian royals she likely left a spirit of her there for some reason As for Mohg the flame of frenzy would completely destroy his plans for his dynasty so he left a spirit of himself there to stop it It could also be that the place was where Mohg discovered the formless mother and it holds some sort of importance to him

[@phillipmitchell2254]

Only real question is if Mohg created his projection before or after Morgott locked it up with his seal?

[@michaelsiegfried3878]

Couldve done it together. They are brothers

[@user-jn7rz9ew2l]

it is not a spirit it is a projection the same type as ijji blaidd used in Ranni's tower

[@phillipmitchell2254]

@@user-jn7rz9ew2l Do you know if the projections can actually fight and do real damage in both cases?

[@phillipmitchell2254]

I'm so surprised KZbin didn't explode like it usually does when there was an Arabic name in an otherwise English reply lmao

[@shoelacedobby3819]

wouldn't spirit Loretta be part of the spell the royal family put on the manor. Like the rain of magic when you try to enter.

[@Nameandaddresswithheld]

the whole "same person" thing i think comes from an alchemical myth. theres a thing called a rebis, which is an immortal entity that is simultaneously male and female. they arent necessarily born of one body and soul, but rather become one. i have a theory that that is what radagon and merika are, thus explaining how they start as separate people and then merge into one. i think this also explains why godfrey was sent away, because he wasnt a match in that way. i have a theory that most the demigods are actually attempting to reach immortality and full godhood like their parents. most of the demigods we fight are either already merged with another entity. there's rikard who fed himself to a giant snake so that they could devour a god; godrick who is grafting people to ascend, Mohg trying to become the other half to Miquella, and Ranni 'wedding' our tarnished. Ranni even refers to us as her 'consort eternal', notice the word "eternal", endless, infinite, inescapable... kinda like becoming part of their very being PS understanding the demigod children is a lot easier when you just go on greek myth rules: the dirty is required for children, except when its not.

[@Stasispack2024]

To build on this another interesting point about Merika and Radagon being the same person. Its interesting that the only children Merika and Radagon had, Melania and Miquella both have severe birth defects. One is curesed with the scarlet rot and the other cursed with eternal youth. This could be due to insest as they became the same person.

[@syugyeh]

I can't really give you anything on the first two summons, but the Golden Godfrey has a very good explanation. The reason he's there is to be the 'ruler' of Leyndell, Morgott is a despised Omen and his king position as ruler of Leyndell is from the shadows. So the Golden spirit is a figure head he summoned to instruct the nation on his actions.

[@xeibei4804]

Thats stupid people do know morgot is the king they just never saw him. He rules them but mot through the golden godfrey spirit.

[@nathnull8523]

i think its known that a 'Morgott' rules Lleyndel, which is why he adopts the Margit pseudonym when in plain sight so noone can link King Morgott to the omen-curse

[@Rusty_Spy]

@@nathnull8523 Morgott is known only as the Veiled Monarch according to Gideon

[@mattagon6407]

With the Miquella one, he is literally using the same although enlarged model of Morgott after you defeat him. I don't believe there is too much to take from it at present.

[@bruhmoment-mg6pb]

yeah it’s probably filler

[@kalilmyers9498]

We should take the outstretched and moving hand as evidence of him having grown and still being alive, although clearly not doing well. From wouldn’t show us anything as important as that with no intention of it meaning anything.

[@LegendaryBrah]

I’d like to imagine Godefroy (evergaol one) is the son of Godwyn and was the first to start grafting to the extreme. Also like to imagine that he, at one point, had a kid and it was Godrick. And that’s how Godrick got the inspiration to graft. But that’s how I view that.

[@LA-qv1ir]

Or he could just be some other person unrelated to the gods and demigods that sinned through the use of grafting and FS ran out of time to create a new model for him and recycled Godrick's. The lore states that Godefroy captured by Dragon Knight Kristoff and imprisoned in the Evergaol which earned Dragon Knight Kristoff the hero’s honor of an Erdtree burial.

[@LegendaryBrah]

@@LA-qv1ir every single character in a fromsoftware that has ‘God’ in their name is related to a family of sorts In dark souls, it’s Godwyn’s family In Elden Ring, it’s Godfrey’s family He’s related to the Godfrey family, that I can guarantee.

[@scottnito2640]

@@LegendaryBrah dark souls is Gwynn not godwynn but I’m sure that’s what you meant

[@LegendaryBrah]

@@scottnito2640 yeah! Gwyn. I can’t believe I fumbled that.

[@blizzardgaming7070]

That would also give him reason to attack Leyndell, getting Godrick, I presume Godefroy left his great rune at Stormveil and that’s how Godrick got it.

[@mervynetapia74]

In regards to Radagon and Marika being one person and able to reproduce, I believe this is a representation of self pollinating flowers such as orchids, sunflowers and dandelions. Which fits the theme of trees in the Elden ring universe.

[@nathanphilipiah5967]

One thing brought up from the Helphen Steeple is that there may actually be a whole afterlife world with trees that look like the erdtree and lamps that look like Grace. This kinda adds a whole level of dimensional stuff in the world. And do the demigods go there when they die? Is this the case with Godwyn?

[@YaBoySheeny]

Probably something connected to the outer god that governed over death before the greater will

[@Cyrus-rodn45]

Godwyn Is stuck in death, he is neither alive or dead..... that's a worst faith than living or dying

[@xviii5780]

Aren't they get reborn as everyone else? While Destined Death is guarded by Maliketh nothing can truly die.

[@tavastian3288]

"After the First Defense of Leyndell, Kristoff earned the hero's honor of Erdtree Burial for the feat of capturing Godefroy the Grafted." So Godefroy was considered an enemy of Leyndell and capturing him was a great enough feat to be granted Erdtree Burial

[@tavastian3288]

@@McDudes Dragon Knight of Leyndell. You can find his Ashes from one of the Erdtree Tombs

[@solomon9655]

What I find unironically cool about Fromsoft plots’ open-endedness is that they’re satisfying on a base level, on a lore level, and have just enough gaps for easy retconning. Prime example is the Ringed City and all of its lore in DS3. Cool addition to the world that somehow works and doesn’t contradict too much, while also being impossible to predict coming since it wasn’t telegraphed in previous lore. No way did they have ideas for Ringed City back in the DS1 days, but the open holes in the lore allows for us to speculate and for them to expand in the world-building without making any painful re-writes. Another example being the classic “Solaire is the Nameless King” theory for DS1, which kinda worked well enough with the limited information given but took until DS3 for that to get solidly disproven. In Elden Ring’s case, there are puzzles that are impossible to figure out because the puzzle piece was held from us or simply doesn’t exist yet. Which makes it all the more satisfying when solid community theories come to light. But some questions are going to require expounding upon in DLC or sequels.

[@Makszi]

I mean, Miyazaki did say in an interview that he basically had the whole Dark Souls trilogy lore and plot planned out from the get-go. Which to me was surprising considering how DS2 sort of didn't fit.

[@xeibei4804]

The retconning for ds1 lore was pretty obvios and pretty bad tho. Dark souls 1 lore was already whole any trying to ad more was stupid ds2 tried to play around it but failed and ds3 was just a best of ds1. It was really bad

[@xeibei4804]

@@Makszi I dont believe that. That is just a lie its pretty obvious, especialy with ds2 wich he didn't even directed so how could he plan out the whole trilogy if he only worked on 2 games?

[@libertyprime6932]

They aren't satisfying at all, they are just vague magic nonsense where anything can be anything so nothing matters.

[@Makszi]

@@xeibei4804 I'm not lying, he did say that. And he did work on DS2 to some degree.

[@fireblast133]

The spirits, including the ash summons, are essentially an imprint of the memory of that individual. This applies to player summons and invaders. It is an imprint of that individual bleeding across time and space. And it’s true for Loretta as well. She had a duty to the Carian family. She left that duty behind for the albinaurics. That remembrance stays and manifests as a spirit.

[@dropkoo]

the "summons" of Mogh and Morgott seem to be disjointed from the actual entities, as you can fight Morgott in Altus after you killed him at the Erdtree (same for Mogh)

[@thefishgolder]

As a huge dark souls fan and lore enthusiast I was surprised how much more concrete and understandable elden rings lore is in comparison to darks souls

[@blunderman73dicks37]

At least dark souls has the excuse that time is distorted

[@bruhmoment-mg6pb]

1: In cut content, Rennala was going to summon Blaidd, which implies that people can be summoned by the carians even if they are still alive, unlike spirit ashes or puppets. It was likely cut to prevent conflicts with his questline (i/e he’s dead). She is attacking you because you’re a tarnished (a group of people known to be demigod hunters) and she is in service of a demigod (Miquella). She’s also probably want to stop you from killing Malenia, which is what you’re there to do. 2: Mohg and Morgott, being the only two powerful beings who really were in close proximity to the frame of frenzy without supporting it, likely knew about it and worked together to try and prevent people from becoming the flame of frenzy. Morgott by sealing it until he dies, and Mohg by protecting it with a spirit projection. 3: Yes. It’s George R. R. Martin. 4: You can see that it isn’t modern Godfrey, because his axe is intact. It’s probably a projection from Morgott’s memory. 5: It’s funny 6: The godskin apostles hunt perceived godly beings. Tarnished are close to Godfrey, this making you a target. They’re hunting you. Also you just kinda end up in a lot of places where the godskins have interest. The one at the divine tower of Liurnia is probably there for the skin of Ranni’s physical body. The one in the Windmill village is collecting tithes of skin from the celebrants. the one in the divine tower of caelid is guarding the godslayer greatsword. The one in volcano manor is probably allied with Rykard, because they both want to kill the gods. The duo (shudders) is there to try and steal the tune of death back from maliketh. 7/8: Probably not Godwyn. It was talking about the soulless demigod inside the mausoleum. They were probably killed by the Black Flame, which was the only thing other than maliketh and the black knives that could historically kill a demigod (The godslayer greatsword must have killed star least one god, right?). Overall they’re probably unnamed, unwanted children of Marika who failed (Hence her line about ‘amounting to something’). Also yes, Godwyn is soulless. The black knives killed his soul, while also killing ranni’s body, which was the only way to kill half of someone. 9: It’s pronounced “Ever Jail”, and i assume it was just an imprisoning method. They were probably made by a bunch of different people for a bunch of different reason. Also Godefroy was just another member of the golden lineage, probably a close relative of Godrick. He is mentioned in like one item description (ancient dragon knight kristoff) where it’s said that he was captured during the first defense of Leyndell. The only other reference to the first defense of leyndell is a sword monument which says that a “sovereign alliance rots from within” and that there was some sort of conspiracy involved. This is actually pretty interesting, and first we’d have to establish what the sovereign alliance is. If i had to guess i’d say it was sort of like a council of demigods to try and remain united after the shattering of the elden ring. Godefroy was the most direct heir of the golden lineage at the time and likely had Godrick’s position. He betrayed the Sovereign Alliance, marched on leyndell, got beaten and captured, and Godrick took his place. Then the alliance actually fell apart at the second defense, where at least radahn, but probably most, of not all, of the demigods, turned on Morgott and tried to conquer Leyndell. 10: the “Renna is short for Rennala” theory is just kind of silly. like yeah it could be, but there’s mountains of clear implication that the snow witch’s name is Renna. 11: Technically we don’t know for certain, but it would be kinda weird if Mohg didn’t realize. If miquella was actually in the tree body, why are his soldiers searching for him, and why is he described as missing? 12: At one point they were physically separated, and we don’t know when they began inhabiting they same body. They could have boned when they were separate, or they could have had lovecraftian arcane selfsex. They could have even spontaneously produced offspring. All-in-all it doesn’t really matter

[@leftykouts4121]

It is also confusing that the Godfrey shade doesn't have Serosh (the lion) on his back, like the actual Godfrey we fight later on. Also, Serosh on the back of Godfrey I think has the same golden glow like spirit Godfrey. And then on the cutscene, before he dies, Serosh can be seen "switching" to normal? Could that possibly mean that the Godfrey shade is actually him protecting Morgott? It could also be Morgott himself summoning him, because he has the golden glow of the weapons that Morgott conjures. This is too confusing...

[@xxBiteKite]

Maybe its because when producing a shade, the summon isn't shown. like for example you can make a shade of Godfrey because he's actually in the mortal plane but with Serosh ( only while on his back ) he appears to be a summon, clung onto Godfrey, and since Serosh isn't in the mortal plane, the shade doesn't transfer him.

[@quarkchild]

Made a big comment way up explaining, but this is actually an EXCELLENT point to further the argument that this is Godfrey's Grace. There would be no reason for his Grace to have Serosh, seeing how Grace is just a direct gift from the Greater Will.

[@arabidllama]

As for why everybody friggin attacks you, they've all "gone hollow" by Dark Souls standards - they've lost hope, and lost their minds, and are kept alive endlessly by the Erdtree (or otherwise). I think enemy/boss placements are better understood as representing influence, rather than being too literal. The fights you discuss here are definitely filler, but I do think they had reasons to put each fight where they did. Mohg guarding the entrance to the Frenzied Flame is because he knows it's there (from growing up there), and because it's a direct threat to his own outer god/dynasty. I take it to be a (weak) projection of Mohg or the Formless Mother or both. Godfrey's spirit being where it is, and made entirely of gold, suggests to me that it's a Greater Will manifestation. A "memory of battles past" like the spirit ashes refer to, just recorded in the branches of the Erdtree that wind through that arena instead of in ashes. The spiritcaller snails in the Mountains of the Giants are an interesting one - it means that godskin soldiers fought and died in the mountains, long ago. This is from when the Dusk-Eyed Queen and her forces killed the giants - you can see trees of Death has taken root in all of them. All the mausoleum and eclipse dialogue isn't referencing anything I know of directly. Maybe we will get DLC where we learn more about the Alabaster Lords/the Void, and ancient spirits of The Lands Between? They obviously operate outside of the Erdtree's influence, so their power has to be based elsewhere. Turtles + Mausoleums - unfinished/not fully explored in-game imo. Turtles seem to represent old knowledge, based on where you find them, and how nonchalant Turtle Pope is about everything. The mausoleums' resemblance cannot be an accident, but it's not clear if it's just a motif or what. Mausoleums + Evergaols - So, if the mausoleums do have Alabaster Lords in them, and Evergaols can trap souls forever, perhaps the intention was that there'd be a connection between the concept of souls, stone/glintsonte, and just the Really Old Ways that all of the underground stuff represents? Godefroyyee - Absolute, unabashed filler, but its positioning (as soon as you hit Altus Plateau) is meant to show that the Leyendel royalty disowns grafting. That guy you fought in Stormveil? They think he's a loser. Miquella needs a DLC to explain a lot of things, but the themes are very clear. Melania and Miquella are "born of only one god" (i.e. Marika and Radagon are two halves of the same god), which is why she rots and why he's eternally youthful. Melania chose to hold her rot at bay with Unalloyed Gold (Greater Will's power?), while Miquella sought out a second god (the Haligtree and whatever its origin is) in order to undergo the "second half" of his gestation. As for how Marika and Radagon can have children together - they bang. Get it? Cuz they have a mace? Here's how I read Marika's story regarding her kids: Marika plus the Badlands Chief made Morgott and Mogh (monstrous in form) and Godrick (a disowned jerk), and Godwin (maybe a bigger jerk who got VERY disowned?). After all, Godrick is trying to take up Godwin's mantle as "Godrick the Golden", in Godwin's very own castle. And whoever Godefroy was they just threw him in jail. So, Marika splits off the part of her that's loyal to the Greater Will (so the other half can plot). Marika-as-Radagon + Rennala end up making extremely powerful and successful children, who are all too willful for their own good. None of them end up under Marika's influence - only Ranni, who takes after Rennala (the names are a hint), ends up useful to Marika at all. Soooo, Marika decides to do it herself. Making two half-children who are certainly powerful but also fundamentally incomplete. Also if you take Godwin Rennala Radagon Marika together it spells GRRM ok bye

[@teivabaudoin2666]

I remember that when I was part of a lore group on DS1 way back then, a guy metaphorically said that digging up through all the lore and story was exactly the same as being an archaeologist, you have to dig up everything and figure out with all the elements you have, and to me it’s the same in elden ring, hopefully dlcs will help figuring out more, but remember that Miyazaki puts a lot of efforts to make up a coherent lore^^

[@sumdude5172]

i feel so as well, def get the archaeology vibe going through the rubble of fallen empire and try to piece the lore together, one key aspect that reinforces this is the muddy timeline, theres no date or year, just a sequence of events happening one after another. Would make a cool game concept for archaeology sim though.

[@jonathangonzalez9673]

Another thing the scenary the backgrounds are also telling a story....but people just see everything as stuff just laying around for the sake of the landscape but alot of that stuff that has neither a dialogue nor text tells a story too like paying attention to the signs of the bat ladies they are not just singing to be like ohh wow thats beautiful they are signing a question to the great will and why they abadon them.

[@solomon9655]

Disclaimer: I am not arguing against your filler argument but here’s my attempt to answer some questions, all of which are my interpretations. Also this might be long i have time to kill atm 1: Spirit bosses. The blue summon enemies all across Liurnia could be the “residual life” of soldiers during the Liurnian civil war projected by glintstone (source: Sellen explaining glintstone when you first meet her.) Loretta’s summon is no different, and lore/gameplay wise I’m *pretty sure* she’s the core of the snare trap of magic ordinance that assaults you when you approach Carian Manor. After killing her the snare is disabled. For WHY she’s here, it’s probably a glintstone “download” of her from the same era as the other blue summons during the civil war, and after setting up her snare trap (possibly after the war reached stalemate) she went on her pilgrimage to the Haligtree. For Godfrey, I interpreted the golden ghost as you fighting his Remembrance (the boss souls of the game) as projected by the Erdtree itself from when he was in his prime as Elden Lord. Remembrances are an interesting concept, as they’re described as souls “hewn into the Erdtree”. My interpretation is that the strongest souls leave imprints on the world and the tree picks it’s favorites to subsist off of and use as puppets. With this interpretation you could see this fight as the only time you actually fight the tree itself which is kinda cool. For the snail godskin boss, I saw it as the snail summoning what it’s seen before, kinda like a disjointed mimic. Within the same dungeon they summon Okina several times, whom you actually kill later. My understanding is that the Godskins must have passed through the mountains during their era, which is fascinating because there are no other hints towards that aside from speculated connection between the Blackflame and Flame of Ruin. 2: For the walking mausoleums I’m not sure what you were confused about during the whole segment. It’s important to note that Godwyn was the FIRST demigod to die and from my interpretation, the mausoleums are a subtle reveal that many more demigod deaths followed. We don’t get to know their names, but there were many, at least as many as there are mausoleums. The mystery is simply when they existed and how they died. They must have died after Godwyn so it’s unlikely they were killed by the Godskins which were pre-shattering era (I’m pretty sure). All I know is that if they were all children of Marika (according to that one ghost) so are they Godfrey’s children or Radagon? Not sure. 3: On Evergaols: Dunno. But Evergaol is pronounced ever-jail, gaol is an old English spelling like shoppe vs shop. Godefroy sucks is what he is. My least favorite addition to any Fromsoft lore, big waste of space that cheapens Godrick for no good reason. I would’ve just cut him if the budgetary reasons are true. 4: I don’t have any guesses for who Renna is, but her name IS suspect. It’s just Rennala with less letters, so it could be Ranni’s secret aunt…? 5: For Miquella, yes it’s him. He doesn’t look the same because Mohg killed him and is trying to resurrect him through some horrible transformation ritual. Odd to bring up, feels like pointing at Ludwig in Bloodborne and saying “that’s a horse, no way that’s Ludwig, who was a man” 6: For Radagon and Marika having children, it feels like classic mythos, especially Greek god births. Aphrodite emerged from sea foam and several gods emerged from the corpses of their Titan parents. Elden Ring seems to imply some gods coming from eggs (I think Radagon handing Rennala an unhatched egg is evidence in plain sight. It’s one of the eggs produced by Radagon/Marika, an amber egg (hardened sap) with a rune in it. I’ve seen the theory before and I believe it more and more with time, which is the children of Marika/Radagon in particular are born from Great Runes through some mysterious process. When we fight Radagon, seeing the Elden Ring inside him feels like a hint towards this wild concept. Similarly, children of Malenia seem to be born from the rot itself (Millicent and her sisters just “appeared” from Aeonia). Point is, some of the demigods are definitely born through strange mythological means. This was too long, I’m sorry, thank you if you read it. Nice use of Sly Cooper music btw.

[@CreatMind]

Point 6 blew my mind, but in hindsight it seems obvious. There's something strange about the Great Runes, for example. The game implies that the Demigods took them after the Elden Ring was shattered, as if they had taken the broken off shards. But, at the same time, there are implications for them to have been born with their runes. Morgot's rune is proof of his heritage to the Golden Order, and the similarities between his and Mogh's rune are explained by their relationship as twins. If they had just nabbed the runes, these details wouldn't matter. And indeed, Marika and Radagon are literal vessels for the Elden Ring, and so are their children.

[@BornToPeeForcedToDrinkIt]

The reason Miquella looks different is because he was trying to give himself an adult body using the Haligtree when he was stollen by Mohg. That’s why he’s malformed and hairless, because the metamorphosis was interrupted. He also tried to cure his sister of the rot but we don’t know if that’s related to the cocoon thing.

[@dyinginfashion2558]

I thought I had explored every inch of this game and I just found out the other day I missed an entire armor set. So I understand how you feel, it feels like no matter how much of a fine tooth comb you use there’s always something else you are missing. I missed the drake knight set in farum azula by the way 😹 I know I’m dumb.

[@micahmeowman]

Mogh might set a summon for himself there to keep you from the 3 fingers. I mean you can't make your own dynasty if the world is burned.

[@Brendonherring522]

This conclusion makes the most sense

[@darknesswave100]

I just hope we get something involving Miquella in a dlc. Cause he's the one I wanna know the most about

[@zygardemaster5967]

same

[@HitTheR0ad]

In the case of Loretta, I always saw it as a story similar to that of Brienne of Tarth, from the GRRM books: a knight with a sense of duty, justice and honor who served the royal family and, by misadventures (Death of Ranni, Radahn being consumed by Malenia's rot, and Queen Renalla becoming mentally unstable) or moved by empathy for the Albinaurics/inspired by what the Halligtree stood for, she set out on a journey to defend those who were mistreated. Still feeling her duty to the Royal Family, she leaves a clone of her to defend the mansion. What's sad: we kill a heroine.

[@HitTheR0ad]

Mohg and Morgot guard the path to Frenzy Flame, so they seal the way (if you defeat that copy of Mohg, you still need to kill the real one and Morgot, otherwise their seals blocks the way; being the only one time that the two brothers worked together in game). During the Rupture, Morgot leaves to defend Leyndell and become "Guardian of the Erdtree"; while Mohg creates a doppelganger to keep up appearances and cover his plans (so no one suspects him when Miquella disappears or the Bloody fingers appears with the Lord of Blood).

[@HitTheR0ad]

Godfrey Spirit, can be a projection created by Morgot to defend, since he is right before the Morgot Fight and is golden. Godskins of Snail Merlin is filler, totally. The others are usually close to places linked to death (one guards the slayer of gods, another the path to where Ranni's body and a fragment of the deathmark is, the duo in Farum Azula which is a city trapped in time, but still touched by death; Eiglay's has been taken in by Rykard, and Dominula's is screwing with some old women's minds). Godefroy is curious: we are led to believe that Godrick is Godfrey's son, by Enya's phrase about "Godrick being the smallest of the litter", but he is the smallest of the fragment bearers. Godrick is just the last descendant of the Golden Linneage, which with time was losing strength and status and with each generation they were trying to regain it; hence the art of grafting. In this case, Godefroy is just one of Godrick's ancestors (he even goes crazy talking to "witness him" lol)

[@dominicbeller8700]

Another note of Mohg’s illusion or spirit summon in front of the Flame of Frenzy as well as Mohg and Miquella’s… situation. Mohg absolutely would not want us reaching the Flame of Frenzy either. It’s very likely he discovered this while being trapped down there and knew the consequences of it. Mohg wants to rule, he wants power over the people that forced him down there. And his outer god craves wounds. She needs subjects. The Flame of Frenzy ends everything and directly opposes his goals. Leaving illusions or spirit summons to protect an area isn’t a foreign concept to this world. That’s also why Loretta’s there. She had a duty to the Haligtree, but didn’t want to leave her home unguarded. It makes sense that Mohg would want to keep people away from the Flame of Frenzy. It’s easy to look at Mohg, an objectively bad person and the Flame of Frenzy, an objectively bad thing and assume they’re on the same side of the board, but no. Mohg would not want anyone getting near this, it directly contradicts his aims. Regarding him and Miquella: I have a body from Japan. The term “bloody bedchamber” is a translation error and doesn’t actually mean he tried to get Miquella into his bed. It’s more like saying he invited him into his home and shared his goals with him. We don’t have any actual concrete evidence that physical reproduction is part of the consort relationship. Yes, Marika + Godfrey and Marika + Radagon had kids but there’s implication this doesn’t happen how we interpret it. Mohg didn’t necessarily want to fuck Miquella, he wanted a place of power to rule from and Miquella was a prime candidate to get him there. (Also, GRRM helped write this. Incest is not something to be surprised or confused over. It’s almost a GRRM brand at this point.)

[@luchesisuzana7643]

Apparently consortship doesn't have anything to do with sex and reproduction per se in ER, I mean, we can marry Ranni and she's just a porcelain doll with a yarn body. Kinda hard to bang that. Also, apparently both Miquella and Mohg are males, another hint that consortship isn't directly related to sex and reproduction - and also, I'd say, that reproduction isn't directly related to sex like in our reality. After all, Marika had kids with Radagon and they share the same body.

[@alikosproduzioni2555]

Actually, even if I laughed my ass when I found Godefroy inside the Golden Lineage Evergaol, there are a couple descriptions in game that justify his existance, you should check better But I guess we can all agree that recycling Godrick model has been simply a lazy choice

[@tinminator8905]

What other model would you suggest for Godefroy the Grafted? I guess it could have been a grafted scion?

[@alikosproduzioni2555]

@@tinminator8905 since the art of grafting has never been explained in details, I guess it was alright to use one more time, for Godefroy, a troll body and a set of multiple arms, even just to make him a menacing adversary But i think they could had changed his weapons (I don't know, ultragiant swords or hammers instead of the same axe that we can create using Godrick reminiscence), the growing direction of his extra limbs, and of course the face, that is exactly the same as Goderick Also some changes in the moveset would have been nice (in particular, I expected that using such advances wind powers in battle was something exclusive for the lord of Stormveil Castle, and seeing it basically replaced on other boss left mw pretty 'meh')

[@ixiahj]

Dunno how those spirit summons work for NPCs but when you talk to Rani and she introduces you to her team, they're all spirit summons at the bottom of the tower indicating they're just projections. Even Seluvus tells you this that he resides elsewhere when you talk to his "phantom." It seems like the lore blends gameplay mechanics together like how the NPCs can also leave messages with their projections on it.

[@mralabbad7]

6:50 this is probably a ghost copy they made of him for defensive measures before he was tarnished considering his axe is still not broken he's clearly not a present day godfrey And probably the same thing with loretta.

[@khandimahn9687]

I can't deny, the repeated bosses does make it feel like From was running out of money and/or time, and had to reuse resources.

[@leddmask]

They still kept it more fresh than any other open world. Games will always have reused enemies, if they don’t, they’re probably a small/short game.

[@ThommyofThenn]

Everyone was making fun of them for not releasing Elden ring "elden ring when huguhuhuhuh" and then when it does come out, everyone says it's lazy and underbaked. Classic have cake and eat it also scenario

[@ironfoot1938]

I've heard a theory for radagon and marilka that makes sense for me: They were seperate people, that later merged into one.

[@Dattobayo]

I'm confused about how Ranni can be an empyrean when she was born from Radagon and Rennala before Radagon married / fused with Marika.

[@gustersavon]

Very excited for your next stream man!

[@agtjake]

I’ll be on tomorrow 👍

[@int3nz_rektix606]

I would love to get a series about Elden Ring explaning the lore

[@justmustard56]

About the evergaol: i think that that has some relation with the nights calvary. Their armor say that they are working for Morgoth and they are killing heroes, knights and champions and when you take a close look at those guys locked in those evergaols they are heroes, knights and champions. Maybe they are locking those guys there. But is just speculation, put your tin foil hat on

[@Brendonherring522]

The specific people locked in each evergaol have their own stories relating to their captors tho. Darriwil was likely imprisoned for betraying or attacking Ranni, given Blaidds vendetta against him. Adan was specifically locked up by the fire monks at the orders of Arghanthy for stealing the flame of the fell god incantation. Godefroy was captured by Ancient dragon knight Kristoff, albeit possibly at Morgott's behest but that seems to be the only one even tangentially related to him or the knight's cavalry IIRC

[@tinminator8905]

The people in Evergaols aren't dead. The Evergaol is a timeless magical prison to lock away powerful beings (See blaidd). The evidence you have is very weak and the connections non existent. That would be like saying that Morgott killed all important characters because one memorial says: The Fell Omen stacks high the corpses of heroes.

[@StainlessPot]

Yes, Mohg+Miquella would be incest. But it's not confusing at all. Did you forget who they got to write the backstory?

[@hugocontente6260]

theory: Malenia and Miquella were working together with Ranni and Rykard. The twins were empires, they served as receptacles for the other gods. Malenia already possessed the god of rot, but Miquella was still an empty vessel. The twins were aided by Ranni and realized the possibility of life that did not originate from Erdtree but from the Black Moon, the albinacules, and decided to give rise to a power parallel to that of the great will, capable to cure Malenia. There are several things that link these gods together, like Loretta and the Black Knives that protect the entrance to Halightree. For this plan to work, they had to kill Radahn, who held the stars, and Godwyn (I couldn't think of a reason), who represented the golden order, the sun god. I believe that Miquella should shelter the Black Moon because the other half of the medallion that leads to the sacred tree is in Sun Castle, where there are several references to an apocalyptic event that did not occur, named Eclipse, where Miquella's black moon would overcome the Sun. of the golden order, even the spirits that guard Godwyn's mausoleums are marked by this eclipsed Sun, and the Fia's rune of restoration is also an eclipse. While Malenia was trying to kill Radahn, Mogh invaded the Halightree and kidnapped Miquella with the intention of using him as a vessel for the Formless Mother, and, as the spirit atop the Sun Castle says, the Eclipse did not go as it should.

[@deadbro7708]

After 309hour on the game, a real question come to my mind... how the society work ?? Like I never see a food shop, tavern ect in the city and there is no food ?? Like how do they feed , there is no reel field or farm

[@matthiasmelaku7118]

Morgott might've yearned for the strength and guidance of his father to help defend the Erdtree. He can summon a litany of weapons and Ranni has proven that this kind of thing is possible.

[@retrospect]

Another banger

[@enjyn09]

I think the biggest trick to understanding what is true is first realizing much of the information you encounter is either a product of lying or misunderstanding.

[@adamtownshend3719]

I think the reason Miquella looks so different is because Mohg has been trying to use the Formless Mother's power to grow him to full adulthood and in the process hopefully wake him up from his slumber. Obviously this doesn't seem to have worked but for some reason Mohg seems unable to get his dynasty jump started without Miquella's help.

[@nowhere18]

Radagon is a great rune the kris crossing pattern that is seen in the Elden ring he is a living great rune

[@jtothemaurednik]

4:35: there’s a canonical semi-answer in a key item you get from the snow witch’s quest line! i don’t wanna post spoilers tho also somehow the best and most coherent lore video. direct and simple, easy to understand.

[@ninetails961]

One thing about elden ring that makes it so good to me is how real the lore feels in its delivery. You are traveling around a land full of legends and magic. The only way to find information about something is searching for it thoroughly, and even then you are merely getting word of mouth stories and accounts as told by a third person. The only way to establish something as true is in the few first hand accounts you get, which is why I like the fact that there is gaps of information as well as some contradictory information. It was made to feel real and create stories and speculation from the people who research the items.

[@WilliamMelton617]

I can't wrap my head around "those who live in death" in the game. Like, some enemies live in death. For example, skeletons. But they are physical beings who can interact with the Tarnished....but Godwin, who also lives in death (by body only since his soul is dead?) cannot be interacted with by the Tarnished or seen by anyone else? Does he only exist as the presence of death blight now? It makes no sense.

[@LA-qv1ir]

I guess those that can be interacted with still have souls and this idea is reinforced by the fact that Godwin is the only being whose soul itself was killed.

[@WilliamMelton617]

@@LA-qv1ir that's the only explanation I guess but I find it hard to believe that the skeletons still have souls...it's all very confusing, and even moreso now that I've heard the creator say that there is indeed a "true story" with all the holes filled in

[@aarndal90]

As I understand it, and this could be absolutely wrong, Those Who Live in Death are people whose spirit does not return to the Erd Tree, which means they are not reborn. They are basically doomed to live forever with bodies which are actually already dead. The whole thing happened, according to Rogier, because "[...] they happened to touch upon a flaw in the Order." Godwyn, on the other hand, "lives on" as a soulless creature with an undying body which spreads all over the Lands Between. We get most information about Those Who Live in Death from Rogier, Fia and Hunter D.

[@WilliamMelton617]

@@aarndal90 that's actually a very good and consise answer....thanks, that's much clearer lol

[@OmegaFire11]

I don’t think Mohg was placed by morgott, BUT Margit won’t attack if you skip stormveil and fight Morgott directly. I think this shows that Morgott didn’t place Mohg. Also interesting, Godwyn (who is dead-ish) and Mohg aren’t called out as traitors by Morgott. I think Mohg and Morgott both have a vested interest in keeping the flame sealed away, and they placed that seal together before the Shattering even happened. And since Morgott doesn’t know Mohg left the underground, I think Morgott considers him ally more than traitor and doesn’t know what Mohg is doing

[@josetomascamposrobledano4618]

Radagon is Marika, Marika is Radagon. King Consort Dragon Lord and the Furry Order. Lovecraftian DNA Strand with a human skull with a third eye for a head. Marika is impaled by a fragment of Destined Death. Ranni is an Empyrean, Malenia’s remembrance tells us Empyrean= born of a single God. Faram Azula is beyond time so it’s diet version of Dark in Dark Souls distorting time By bringing the past and future together. Miquella is most likely a vessel for an Outer God that is as of yet unnamed but hopefully we get a clear answer in the DLC.

[@TheProphet49]

Loretta: Loretta served the Carian royal family, this is her position earlier on in her own story. Sometime later, she finds out about Miquela's tree and what it could mean for her people and she leaves behind a spirit form (unknown how) guardian for the Carian royal manor and travels in person to go serve Miquela. Other than HOW she leaves a spirit form, it all seems pretty straight forward. I mean Ranni left a contingency spell in place to protect her mother, I assume it is something like that. As for the Godskin apostles. You aren't fighting the same apostles over and over, there was originally an army of these guys serving the Gloam-eyed queen. These are just the locations they are currently inhabiting (or being summoned in). Renna is the Snow Witch, who more than likely is the gloam eyed / dawn eyed queen. She also clearly has a strong connection to Melina, as the doll body Ranni inhabits (ie the snow witches body double) is itself a double of Melina's body.

[@woozlewuzzle9791]

Miquella put himself into the haligtree to transfer his curse to it. This is the reason the haligtree is dying, its growth was arrested. If you look at the face in the haligtree it isn't a woman it's Miquella from the opening cutscene. The body Mohg has is huge like the other demigods. In other words he was able to grow up. Miquella has left that husk and is likely gonna be in the dlc. I also like to think that is why Malenia is touching the tree and talking to her brother. Because she knows a part of him is in there forever. Perhaps the part of him known as st Trina put her into a deep sleep so she could live out the rest of her life there with part of him.

[@slicksilver2961]

Ok, I think I have some possible answers to some of these from my own research and Elden Lore vid bingeing. This is unfortunately a long read... -Every-time you meet a Godskin apostle, they(from what I remember) are blocking you from accessing a demigod or some strategic weapon. The one in the windmill village seemed to just be in the market for new clothes. I don’t know what they want tbh, but their forces are sincerely out out to stop us. I’d need to do more digging on them since I don’t know much about them. Their black flame tho while unique to them, also Killed Iji, despite different assassins being sent to kill him. -Loretta is an honor bound Knight. She left her post to help her people, but I’m sure with her “Honor Bound” ways, she wouldn’t just leave in Duty and name. Also, if she didn’t leave her Spirit Summon there, it might’ve been done by someone there. Maybe a replication of a her spirit? Whatever the case, it’s a version of her from the past, since her spell “Loretta’s (Great?)Bow” is more advanced in her true boss battle(I think). -The Snails that summon other spirits, in my Personal opinion are basically just Snails that came across spirit summons in catacombs. They seem oddly intelligent and know how to use spells to hide themselves. So, it doesn’t seem impossible they use powerful spirit summons they find. Also, Snails irl, (in my garden at least) eat plant roots, leaves and plants as a whole, and they’re usually found next to the roots of the Erdtree in the catacombs. Maybe their down there to eat the erdtree? And if that’s the case, maybe they gained something special from it, like intelligence? -My theory on the spirits Morgott uses is that they are all close to his heart in one way or another *or* to keep up the facade of his existence as king. With Mogh, specifically, I think his Spirit is there because both he and Morgott grew up in the shunning grounds. Other omens would respect seeing one of the brothers down there and it would make sense if one of them would be down there, but it can’t be Morgott because he’s moonlighting as a defender of the capitol. Or maybe, just maybe, Mogh and Morgott made an agreement to protect the 3 fingers and Mogh sent his own spirit down there. They both maybe on different paths but they both know the 3 fingers being discovered would end the world as the brothers know it. -Also with the Godfroy(???) evergaol boss, it’s my belief that he’s a “ancestor” of Godrick. Godrick got the idea of Grafting probably from Godfrey, but ever since Godfrey started, it’s not impossible to say other generations got into it. Godrick seems reviled and I’m sure his “reviled-ness” didn’t start with him losing to Rot Mommy Melania. Also, Gastoc, at least in a cut Questline, is Godrick’s son whom he grafted an arm from him. While that’s not in the base game, Gastoc seems to hate Godrick with a passion, but is just as slimy as his father.

[@swauseguy9911]

For the spirit bosses, I like to think they’re distant memories of the characters Godfrey and Loretta, maybe Godfrey liked to rest and chill out in the erdtree sanctuary, and Loretta definitely used to guard the caria manor

[@LegionOfArkham]

7:00, I doubt this is the answer but here's my theory. It's Godfrey's spirit that he's projecting from far away in order to prevent us from fighting Morgott in the first place, to maybe protect his son.

[@TwistedMecha]

I think the thing with Mohg in the Sewers is that he's working with Morgott to keep the Three Fingers sealed. Mohg has a 'spirit' version of himself in place and Morgott placed the seal. The two Brothers don't seem to have animosity toward each other and both have a reason to want the Three Fingers kept down. Morgott protects the Lands Between and Mohg can continue to pursue his dynasty. Neither can do that if everything is burned away by the Yellow Flame of Chaos.

[@conallross1694]

I figure pretty much everything immediately attacks you because they’re either a literal animal, a zombie or some type deal, or working under a rune bearer. a massive amount of the enemies we face are yknow, rot soldiers, radahn soldiers, godrick’s army. they probably know that tarnisheds are often out to kill runebearers for their runes, so they attack first to protect their respective rune bearer. or they’re like yknow, feral misbegotten or just a dragon who goes “ooo kill kill kill”

[@cooperjordan1554]

Loretta's spirit is there because it was her job to guard that meeting place and she didn't want to just leave it empty when she become a member of the Haligtree. Mohg's spirit is at the shunning ground because morgott missed his brother this making a copy, if you run past mogh and try to leave through the secret passage a barrier stops you and it says "sealed by the all mighty morgott" or something along those lines

[@FodMemories]

I think the theory of the godskins is the fact that there is multiple nobles and apostles, not just one of each, and they all have been influenced by the black flame and all that jazz, so the ones we refight aren’t technically the same ones just different nobles or apostles

[@valkari1278]

i think the spirits are the impressions they left on the area, foor example loretta guarded the carian royals for so long that a bit of her spirit became tied to the location

[@Mushroomancer]

Honestly every godskin we run into should have been a unique godskin boss with a different weapon utilizing black flames in some way. It could have been so much better than the copy and paste we got

[@ChaosBornV]

I think the biggest hint is in the remembrances you get across the lands between. They imply that the erdtree was imprinted with the 'essence' of powerful beings. That could explain the many spirit clones of actual people of import.

[@katunu6030]

7:55 I just wanna say you might be right about Miyazaki just wanting us to hear their music. The music that played for Elden Ring winning the game awards was the godskin track and that’s a very important moment for him. I think he just really likes the song.

[@williamcote4208]

About the Mogh part, I think Mogh himself put a summon there for two reasons. 1: because the it’s there that he first got into contact with the formless mother, so the place became sacred to his dynasty. 2: to prevent anyone from getting to the three fingers because that would kinda ruin his plan of a new dynasty of blood to ever come to fruition because everything would have been durned down by Cthugha… I mean the flame of frenzy.

[@discoffeehawt3638]

Love the sly 1 music at the end

[@zeekutartheimmortal]

welcome to the souls paradigm AgtJake. :) Fromsoft LOVES letting the players carve out their own understanding. Martin, may have gone along with the idea, but fromsoft definitely held the reigns on that part of the story creation. The souls community has been doing exactly this for years. And it has taken YEARS for there to be some kind of consensus on even the most mundane of "facts" about the souls universe. Even then, most ideas are still theories and have no actual proof. Many a forum was full of discussions about whether or not Solaire was Gwyn's firstborn or not, and that is just the most common, easy to find lore enigma.

[@LynnMVD]

About Mogh. There was already a twitter discussion about it. The sewer Mohg is made by Morgott. If you killed the sewer Mohg before Morgott, it will show a seal that says something like Morgott made this seal. I think you can search it up, there should be an SS of the seal.

[@flotheisen3979]

About Mohgs Shade, you already mentioned what I think is the case: Since the path to the three fingers is protected by a Morgott seal and a shade of Mohg, I always assumed that Morgott summoned the shade of his brother to protect the seal and by extension hinder Tarnished to become the Lord of Chaos. Morgott wants to protect the Erdtree, doesn't think of Mohg as a traitor and it is his brother sharing his omen curse, so for me it makes sense to use his shade/summon as a guardian. While you are correct to wonder why he is still there after you beat Morgott, it is also possible to beat Mohgs Shade in the shunning grounds before beating Morgott, which was my natural progression. Taking your point into consideration, it might also be possible that Mohg left the shade himself (as he seems on good terms with his brother), just like Morgott uses his to try and stop us at stormeil and the capital outskirts. To your confusion about Mohg wanting to be Miquellas consort, the term 'consort' is used to show a conjunction or association with another. It doesn't need to be sexual. A son can rule in consort with his father , a ship can be the consort of another ect...

[@catswithlasers]

I always saw the Spirit versions of the bosses you fight as almost their leftover memories, if that makes sense. As in, they were in those places for so long and did so much that they left behind imprints that were them at those moments, while Godfrey's was just a manifestation created by Morgott and/or the Erdtree to stop the Tarnished.

[@jeftecoutinho]

I think the fate written in the stars is the most confusing to me. Like, why only the Carians and Sellen have their fates linked to the stars and others not?

[@christiangarba811]

Regarding the spirit Godfrey: one specific detail I noticed was his axe. In spirit form, the double-headed axe is intact. Meanwhile, when he arrives and the foot of the erdtree in the flesh, his axe is actually broken. I think this could disprove the idea that he was guarding the erdtree in realtime from another location - it doesn't seem farfetched to assume his weapon would match if that were true. It seems to me more likely that this spirit is a manifestation of the greater will.

[@Paloc]

There actually been a piece of coding that helps explain the Godfrey illusion before Morgott. That boss specifically has an additional piece of code for when it will agro based on if you have or have not killed Margit. To me this shows that he's definitely there as a last ditch effort to block the Tarnished without revealing himself as king because if he knows you're coming he just goes all in. But if you surprise him then he needs to be alerted to your presence (ie. attacked or moved near) And based on that, Margit and the Morgott in Leydell, I think the key to these is the colours when they vanish. Gold being Morgott (making Sewer Mohg his) and Dark Blue being Ranni. I don't remember where I saw that, might have even been another of your videos since it's been 2 months since this one was posted.

[@emeraldpichu1]

The easiest way to look at Radagon Is that he is a form of spirit summon or mimic tear with his essence being cleaved from Merica's and given a temporary form before being subsumed back into the whole later on.

[@rdnygrdn]

I would say that Mogh’s summoning is guarding the entrance of the frenzy flame to draw out suspicion that he is elsewhere

[@jamesnorman9160]

For the Radagon/Marika thing, my opinion is that Radagon started off as a 'fragment' of Marika that was split off from her and gianed sentience, and while he had his own will he was blindly loyal to the Golden Order, like a failsafe the Greater Will created once Godfrey had slaughtered all their enemies. And after the Elden Ring was shattered the pair of them fused and became whole once more, and when you clome to fight Radagon he's just a vessel for the Ring by that point and is therefore taking control of the body and facing you directly. Hence why Marika's hair turns to red and Radagon faces us without saying a word: he's just a puppet of the Elden Ring/Beast by that stage. As for the spirit bosses I guess it's similar to when Ranni summons a phantom of her mother to face us: that person is leaving behind a shade of themselves as sort of a fail safe/security guard, or it's been left as a safeguard by others (like with Loretta and Mohg) to protect that area. Like the Carian Manor is ruined but Loretta's shade is still there as perhaps a last-ditch defence left by the royal family that once lived there.

[@rodrigomanzo777]

the ghost thing imo is more of a thing about mechanics, Sekiro dopes the same, and it's a way for you to fight a lesser version of the real boss before the actual encounter in order to learn part of the moveset. In ER those ghosts are more a remembrance, you could say that those places still hold an imprint of those characteres (moght probably found the formless mother in that church, and Loretta obviosuly was a part of that council that you see in the carian manor.

[@johannabelle]

I think the spirits like Loretta must be like a ghost in a traditional story - a spiritual "imprint" left inadvertently by someone who once spent a lot of time in that location, like a handprint in wet concrete.

[@InfinityOrNone]

The thing about Radagon/Marika is very easily explained by one line, given by Melina in the Queen's Bedchamber after killing Morgott: "O Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order. Thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god." Obviously, the two had yet to become one in body.

[@Tom_Fuckery]

I feel like Loretta's Spirit appearing at carian manor from the lower perspective is similar to that of illusion ornstein in Anor Londo. A version of them produced specifically with the purpose to guard something. Both would leave their posts to follow who and what they believed in.

[@TempestRequiem0]

Miquella is likely larger, and malformed since he was working on undoing the curse of eternal youth the same way he was working on undoing the curse of rot on his sister. His whole character was/is about refusing the influence of outer gods. My theory is he was rebirthing himself in the same logic as Ranni (lose the body, lose the curse), but with a much different approach.

[@obiwankenobi8494]

If anyone is wondering godfroy is another descendant of Godfrey and he played a part in the first defense of leyndell on the attacking side and he was trapped in the evergoal by ancient dragon knight kristoff Source: ancient dragon knight kristoff ashes

[@Zapdos97]

Margit and Mohg share the same yellow dusting animation once we kill them. We know Morgott casted Margit. Mohg being a projection cast by Morgott makes the most sense to me, but still brings more questions lol.

[@dyinginfashion2558]

Loretta being a spirit I always assumed was a manifestation of Renala. The mohg thing I don’t fully understand either though. Maybe it’s because of the blood priest you can fight? The golden Godfrey spirit definitely seems like an aspect of the erdtree, the erdtree takes the souls of the grace given. It seems like the tree sent an aspect of one of their greatest warriors because they had the ability to do so. If you notice the two fingers and the tree itself are known create spirits, like the shadows you have to kill for ranni.

[@LegendaryBrah]

I’d also think that Godfrey’s ghost is a projection of the Erdtree since it’s a golden shade, unlike every other summons that are at best yellow. And the OST for that fight specifically is Lord’s apparition and that means “a ghost or a ghostlike image of a person” so it kinda supports my theory of the Erdtree mimicking a summon of Godfrey. As to why the erdtree does that considering you don’t plan on burning it yet: iunno

[@Addyboy0190]

My two cents of radagon and marika is marika is the original host of the elden ring, radagon is her mimic given a great rune which changed the mimic into radagon, and when marika enacted her plan radagon was more loyal to the greater will thus wanted to repair the elden ring and help bind her body by merging/returning the great rune of radagon back into the elden ring leaving marika a prisoner in her own body

[@gabenvandenbrink9114]

The only thing i can think of with mogh is that it's a permanent illusion of him, that he left there to decieve other's of his real location? But this adds so many other questions

[@salehrastilari7729]

I like to believe that the real mogh was originally supposed to be guarding the 3 fingers, but left to join the formless mother and needed to leave a spirit of himself at his original location so that nobody would grow suspicious of him when he kidnapped miquella. That is why nobody in the story knows of mogh's location(not even gideon) or suspects him.

[@parkermacneil5523]

So...I love your content man, I'm going to offer my thoughts on what you said in hopes it may help you with yours. 1. Loretta; I think its quite possible she died once before, hence why there's a spirit ash version of her at the Carian Manor. People do come back after their soul goes to the etdtree, specifically if there is no erdtree burial, of which there is no mention for Loretta. Ranni gives us the bell and the wolves and Rennala summons spirit ashes, so Ranni probably stationed her there. 2. Mohg, I think the mohg we fight in the sewer is just an additional layer of protection laid there by Morgott. It's even possible they were both in League to guard the three fingers. They would know what it's capable of for sure, and both wouldn't want it to threaten their plans. They are brothers who grew up in the sewers together, it's not unlikely to speculate they could have worked together. Now Mohg wanting to overthrow the Golden Order implies Morgott wouldn't work with him based on that, though when Gideon talks about him after finding his area he talks about him as if he's delusional and a madman. Morgott likely thought the same and figured it wasn't a threat. Gideon also mentions that the Lord of Blood only goes by that moniker (when you ask him abojt the unlocated demigods), so the majority of the lands between don't even know the Lord of Blood is Mohg, hence why his projection is just Mohg the Omen because he's trying to hide his identity as the Lord of Blood. There's lots of ways to piece it together I feel. 3. Renna, I think Renna is of the Zamor people who live on the Mountaintop of the giants. We really don't see any female ones in game, but there's no reason to think there wouldn't be any. The painting of Rennala's moon depicts her moon being found in the Mountaintop of the giants. They likely met in Rennala's youth. Or she could be a daughter of rennala, given the similarity in naming convention that you highlighted but I don't buy it. I think it's quite possible she met Renna during the wars with the fire giants, and then protected her afterwards when Marika betrayed the Zamor people (heck the more I think about it, this could even be the reason for the Carian War to begin with). But I think thats enough for a KZbin comment I hope you take the time to read this dude.

[@HeckMurr]

The only one I got is the miquilla thing. He made the haligtree in part as an attempt to cure his and his sisters curse. So in the cocoon he was hopefully going to grow into a full formed empyrean. Do he's kinda in like a middle form between tiny miquilla and big miquilla. And he's probably so spooky cause of the cursed blood mohgs been feeding him. Like some of the holes could be spots where's horns might grow after he is fully formed. Or just melty right now.

[@elijahkeay3906]

That miquella stuff is interesting because it greater establishes the fact that miquella is represented by the sun (as ranni is the moon) which is cool with the whole one died of soul and the other of body thing. An eclipsed sun, the sun without its centre, maybe representing its soul?

[@UEGMEAT]

Also I'd like to maybe present an idea on the Tarnished in general since it's mentioned. Queen Marika banished Godfrey and his warriors before the night of black knives or the Shattering. So it's likely that she was still acting on the command of the Greater Will. Basically the Greater Will said 'nah no more grace for these guys get them out of here' and Marika did just that. Here's the thing, it's the Tarnished that were given grace and brought back from the grave by the Greater Will to put things back together post-Shattering. That's not incidental. Marika, still acting on the GW's command, told Godfrey and the Tarnished to "fight and die" and then they were brought back from the dead when the GW needed them. Godfrey and the Tarnished, including our Tarnished of no renown, are an insurance policy for the Greater Will.

[@arandomgamingchannel8903]

I'm pretty sure that the Golden Shade we encounter before Morgott is the same thing Ranni did in the Rennala fight, as if you look at the Golden Shade we can see that his axe is a double axe while the Godfrey we fight before Elden Beast has a broken axe

[@llamacheese1796]

So about the question of why everything tries killing the player, a found a comment by Helicopter-Lazy that seemed to explain quite well the reasoning behind this. The comment is, “I recall the aristocrat set saying that the people had been driven mad by unending life. The way I understand it, the Shattering was a massive, continental war where just about everyone died, but none of them could ever properly die. It isn't too far fetched to assume that suffering fatal injuries in war just to wake up a day later would eventually destroy a person's mind.” on Reddit.

[@marioanonimos3651]

I believe loretta's spirit was made to defend the manor(with or without loretta's knowledge or consent) before she went on the albanourics journey(Explained in Mastery item description) it makes sense to be needed since there are no other carian knights in the manor

[@rotciv003]

"Isn't that incest?" Someone forgot it's a GRR Martin story

[@BBPandora]

I think everyone is able to leave their bodies as a shade of sorts, which explains the red finger invaders, the ashen summons you can use etc. It would explain how Ranni is able to summon Rennala and how she placed Loretta as a summoned guardian before her tower. I think even the dungeater red spirit in roundtable hold asks you to go kill his corporeal flesh, meaning they are clearly separate.